Verfahren gegen Mumia Abu-Jamal

THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
CRIMINAL TRIAL DIVISION

- - - - -

PCRA Hearing

- - - - -

Tuesday, July 1, 1997
Courtroom 306, Criminal Justice Center
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

- - - - -

BEFORE:   THE HONORABLE ALBERT F. SABO, J.

- - - - -

- - - - -

TRANSCRIBED BY: CHARLES M. GORGOL
Official Court Reporter of the Court of Common Pleas

Page 2.

EXHIBITS

Page 3.

- - - - -

(At 10:05 a.m. the hearing was convened in the
presence of the Court and the attorneys.)

- - - - -

THE COURT: Good morning.

MR. PIPER: To begin with, Your Honor, we would like to protest the way this proceeding is being conducted. This has ceased to be an adversarial proceeding and has simply become a dialogue between the prosecution and the Court in which we have been relegated to the role of bystanders. Thursday they claimed to have provided conclusive documentary proof of the death of Cynthia White. We offered to rebut that with evidence that the documents they had presented were not proof, that they were an amalgam of pieces of documents taken from various sources. And we protested that we had not been provided the Medical Examiner's file or any of the other documents relevant to this issue. Now they come in saying they want a second chance to again verify the death of Cynthia White, which they previously claimed had already been shown conclusively.

Page 4.

We are denied the documents to independently test their claims. And we are denied the ability to present our witnesses on this issue. They are so eager to put on these witnesses before we have the documents that we would need to cross-examine them and they won't even tell us who the witnesses are that they are calling. If this were truly an adversarial proceeding, we would have the documents we need to cross-examine these witnesses and to explore this issue. We don't even get copies of their exhibits while they have the witnesses on the stand and while they are examining the witnesses so that we can follow to test their claims.

Detective Witcher put on documents which are not genuine, were claimed to be certified, but attached one certified page which is incomplete to other documents which are not certified. They spoon feed the pages they want and hold back the pages that we need.

We went to Camden in February with information that a Mildred Saunders had died and were told that there was no file at the Medical Examiner's office. We went to the State and were told there was no file that Mildred

Page 5.

Saunders or Cynthia White had died, and yet this information supposedly miraculously appears.

Since January we have attempted to get the Medical Examiner's file from Camden, any Medical Examiner's file, and were told there was not one. Then when they produced the death certificate we attempted to get it and were told that we would have to present a letter from a lawyer. We did that and we are told no, a letter from a lawyer is not sufficient, you need to file a civil action, and if you need discovery in the civil action then you can file a separate action to get this file.

We have repeatedly requested the Assistant District Attorney to present their entire file on this. We sent a letter yesterday indicating that we could not proceed without the documents. The Assistant District Attorney can whip up these witnesses from New Jersey but denies having the ability to present the documents which we have requested and which we need to cross-examine these witnesses.

In the same way we have tried to get information from the U.S. Attorney on the 39th District and the connections to this case since

Page 6.

1995. We were stonewalled there and we were denied the discovery in this Court.

Ms. Fisk has the statements of Officers Ryan and Jenkins which bear on the date and timing of their relationship and were discussed in the testimony here but she refuses to provide them.

The course of the proceedings is that we came in here with a long list of witnesses and we told the Court the hearing would take several days. The Court said the only witness that would testify in this proceeding is Pamela Jenkins. We put her on and then we were shut down. We wanted to present the other witnesses and the Court said that they were, quote, precluded, close quote. However, at the behest of the Commonwealth, the Court then opened the floor to a parade of Commonwealth witnesses and then the prosecution on Thursday, quote, rested its case. We were then allowed to call further witnesses but only witnesses of the prosecution's choosing. Unless the prosecution invited or agreed to our witnesses, we could not call them. These were hostile police witnesses whom the prosecution had clearly within their

Page 7.

control and ability to and had interviewed all of them beforehand.

For example, Officer Boston testified that Lucky was Cynthia White, and then under prompting from Ms. Fisk recanted that testimony; and we were refused the ability to submit the Court records which prove that according to the police and Court files, Lucky is the a/k/a of Cynthia White.

In sum, the course of this proceeding demonstrates once again the inability of the defense to get a fair adversarial proceeding in this Court and we renew our request for disqualification.

MS. FISK: May I respond, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Sure.

MS. FISK: Thank you. First, Your Honor, I am unwilling to accept and ask this Court to be unwilling to accept any factual references made by Counsel in this Court, in part because I now know personally that factual references they have made in this Court are untrue.

For example, Ms. Wolkenstein stated in this Courtroom yesterday that I had documents

Page 8.

from Camden and that she had been advised when she contacted the Camden County Medical Examiner's Office that the documents had been given to me. In fact, that was untrue. What I later learned was that apparently defense Counsel had indeed been advised that the Medical Examiner's file in this matter in Camden had been provided to the Assistant District Attorney. I'm sure they were told that. What Counsel did not next inquire was which Assistant District Attorney. They were provided to the Camden County District Attorney's Office. And as a result of Counsel's reference yesterday, I inquired and indeed the Camden County District Attorney's office had that file, and at my request have brought it today. And at the time that the investigator from Camden County testifies I will certainly make a copy of the documents that he is referring to available to Counsel because they were provided to me today at five minutes of 9:00 when the investigator from the Camden Prosecutor's Office arrived in my office.

And for that reason, Your Honor, it is clear to me that the factual claims made by

Page 9.

defense are simply not based credibly on the truth and on the facts and I ask the Court to discount and not accept factual references made by Counsel.

After the Commonwealth presented last week clear evidence that Cynthia White is dead, Mr. Weinglass appeared on the radio, and he was quoted on the radio --

MR. WEINGLASS: I am objecting, Your Honor, to any reference to statements made. What they do, Your Honor, is they address this to the record. And then when Counsel writes --

THE COURT: So do you. You do it too.

MR. WEINGLASS: No, Your Honor, in this Courtroom.

THE COURT: In this Courtroom.

MR. WEINGLASS: I do not refer to newspapers.

THE COURT: Your objection is overruled. Now sit down. You will take it up with the Supreme Court later on.

MR. WEINGLASS: But they want to put this in the record to use on their appellate brief.

MS. FISK: No, Your Honor, I am

Page 10.

raising this --

MR. WEINGLASS: It is improper.

MS. FISK: -- to explain the actions of the Assistant District Attorney which Counsel in his statement this morning is questioning.

THE COURT: Yes. Go ahead. Go right ahead and say whatever you want.

MR. WEINGLASS: Of course. Of course.

THE COURT: This will go up to the Supreme Court and they will decide what they are going to do with it.

MR. WEINGLASS: But there are times when we are precluded from saying what we want to say.

THE COURT: Okay, you are precluded. I overruled your objection. You are precluded right now.

Now go ahead.

MS. FISK: Your Honor, Mr. Weinglass noted in interviews following this proceeding --

MR. WEINGLASS: What radio station? What interview? What time? They have misquoted me before. They are going to do it again.

THE COURT: So what, you misquote them.

Page 11.

MS. FISK: If Counsel would like we could bring the tape recorder in and we could play the interview. If Counsel would like I would be happy to play it.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. FISK: I am not presenting it as a factual assertion, I am presenting this to explain the actions because Mr. Weinglass was quoted in numerous interviews following last Thursday's proceeding that the documentation was not truthful and that there were never any fingerprints taken of the deceased to support the identification.

In light of his complaints and assertions both in this Courtroom and since Thursday as well in the media, the Commonwealth did indeed contact representatives from New Jersey; and I am prepared to present two witnesses from New Jersey today who will prove and who will testify that when Ms. White's body was found her fingerprints were taken and indeed the identification and verification of her death was made by way of fingerprints.

This is not a second chance because the Commonwealth has already shown her dead and

Page 12.

this simply supports that, contrary to the assertions of defense that Ms. White was seen alive in March of this year, and contrary to the proffer that the defense made yesterday that their investigator has shown Ms. White's picture around North Philadelphia and numerous people have been seeing her. I would also --

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We were precluded from putting that witness on.

THE COURT: Wait a while, she is speaking.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: There was an objection from the Assistant District Attorney to putting those witnesses on as well.

MS. FISK: That's correct.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: That's right, they object to us putting on the witnesses.

MS. FISK: Because the disciplinary rules prohibit Counsel from putting on knowingly perjured testimony, Your Honor, and that is exactly what they are doing. They just spent 15 minutes telling you they knew Cynthia White was dead yet they insist on calling witnesses that are --

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: No, we have not been

Page 13.

given the opportunity to put up our witnesses that show the course of the investigation.

THE COURT: Well, I am only interested in whether or not Cynthia White is dead.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Right.

THE COURT: And these witnesses could testify to that.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Right, and as of Thursday, as of Thursday this Court ruled over and over and over again that Cynthia White is dead. You precluded witness after witness, question after question, based upon the statement Cynthia White is dead.

THE COURT: What more do I need? I have seen the death certificate.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: It has been the Court's ruling over and over again since Thursday afternoon that Cynthia White is dead. That has been the ruling of the Court. The prosecution rested their case. They rested on Thursday afternoon, and this Court, over our objection --

THE COURT: Will you please --

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: -- has reopened this case without giving us any notice, without any

Page 14.

courtesy, without any documentation.

THE COURT: Take it up with the Supreme Court.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We will.

THE COURT: Okay.

All right, what do you want to say?

MS. FISK: Your Honor, I have two witnesses. The first is --

THE COURT: All right.

MS. FISK: -- Sergeant Ronald Morgan from the Camden County Prosecutor's Office.

THE COURT: Okay.

MS. FISK: I will hand to Counsel a packet of documents which the detective is bringing to the witness stand.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We want time, we request a continuance for a few minutes from the proceeding.

THE COURT: Well, a few minutes is all you are going to get.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Right. We would like a copy we could have to work with while we are doing this.

MS. FISK: That's what I just --

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: A copy that could be

Page 15.

made first that could stay at defense Counsels' table.

That is our copy? Is that our copy?

MS. FISK: Yes.

THE COURT: If you would keep yourself awake and into what is going on we will move along much faster.

Well, you have a copy, you have a few minutes. Go ahead, look it over.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Thank you.

MR. WEINGLASS: It is about 30 pages.

THE COURT: Well, 30 pages, you are a fast reader.

Let the witness take the witness stand.

MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor, I thought we were given time here.

THE COURT: Well, you have a few minutes, what do you want. Read it.

MR. WEINGLASS: It is over 30 pages.

THE COURT: You went to law school, you ought to be able to read it real fast.

(Pause)

THE COURT: All right, let the record show that Counsel had 17 minutes to review this

Page 16.

information.

MS. FISK: May I also note, Your Honor, that in addition, though I don't have photocopies, the Sergeant has a whole stack of photographs that are those of Camden County. He made copies of five of them and I would be happy to show those to Counsel as well. I do not have photocopies of these but if they want to look at these, and the Sergeant is going to testify regarding them and he will identify them, but this is just to allow them to look at them beforehand (handing).

THE COURT OFFICER: (Handing).

(Pause)

THE COURT: Well, he wouldn't know even if he saw them.

MS. FISK: Your Honor, it is nevertheless an exhibit and Counsel certainly has the right to review it.

THE COURT: I know, he is reviewing them.

MS. FISK: That is fine.

THE COURT: I don't think he ever saw Cynthia White.

MS. FISK: Maybe this past March with

Page 17.

Ms. Jenkins.

THE COURT: All right, could we have the witness take the stand, please.

MS. FISK: Certainly.

THE WITNESS: Certainly.

Sergeant Ronald Morgan, Camden County Prosecutor's Office,
having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

- - - - -

MS. FISK: Counsel, when Counsel is done with these photographs I need them back so I could incorporate them into this document which I intend to have marked. May I have those?

THE COURT OFFICER: What do you need marked?

MS. FISK: Could I have those photographs marked.

No, back to me. Back to me, please.

THE COURT OFFICER: I just want to get a pen (handing).

MS. FISK: Thank you.

- - - - -

DIRECT EXAMINATION

- - - - -

Page 18.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Sergeant Morgan, by whom are you employed, sir?

A. The Camden County Prosecutor's Office.

Q. In what capacity, please?

A. I am a sergeant and the assistant unit commander of the homicide unit.

Q. And how long have you been an investigator or Sergeant with the Camden County Prosecutor's office?

A. I have been with the Prosecutor's Office since 1984.

Q. And prior to that time what was your employment, sir?

A. I was a patrolman in North Collingswood, which is also located in Camden County.

Q. For what period were you a patrolman?

A. Almost ten years.

Q. Now, Sergeant, in your capacity as the assist -- and, I'm sorry, what is your position now with the homicide unit?

A. I am a sergeant, the assistant unit commander.

Q. And that is the Camden County Prosecutor's Office?

A. That is correct.

Page 19.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

Q. Okay. Now, in that capacity, Sergeant, were you requested to bring any documents to the Courthouse today?

A. Yes, ma'am, I was.

Q. And what documents were you asked to bring, please?

A. A case folder in regards to an investigation of a sudden death which occurred in Camden County.

Q. Now, what does that mean: A sudden death and an investigation regarding a sudden death?

A. Our unit is assigned to investigate all sudden or suspicious deaths within the County: Homicides, suicides, accidental deaths, overdoses. We are required to prepare investigative reports. Those reports are taken into the office and a package is prepared.

Q. Now, pursuant to my request, did you recover from your stored or closed files a file regarding the investigation into the sudden death of a Cynthia Williams?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

Q. I'm sorry. Which occurred on September the 2nd, 1992?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

Q. And did you have an opportunity to provide me

Page 20.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

with a copy of that file?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

Q. And precisely when did you provide me with a copy of that file, please?

A. Today, July lst, at approximately five minutes to 9:00 when I entered your office and met you for the first time.

Q. Now, do you have the original file, that is the actual file which you took from your records in front of you?

A. Yes, ma'am, I do.

Q. And did you prepare a duplicate of that file?

A. Yes.

Q. For the Court records?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

MS. FISK: Your Honor, may I ask that this file be marked as Commonwealth Exhibit, I think it's 8.

THE COURT OFFICER: C-8.

(Camden County Prosecutor's file was
marked Commonwealth Exhibit C-8 for identification.)

MS. FISK: And I would be happy to let defense look at it. I would note for the record that with the exception of the photographs, the

Page 21.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

documents which have been provided to Counsel are duplicates of all the documents in this, and if Counsel would like to review and compare I certainly would have no objection.

MR. WEINGLASS: Yes, we would.

MS. FISK: I am marking this as one document, Your Honor: It is the file from the Camden County Prosecutor's Office.

MR. WEINGLASS: We would ask that they be separated because that file contains a number of different documents.

THE COURT: Well, whatever it contains it contains, okay.

MR. WEINGLASS: Is that an answer?

THE COURT: It will become a part of the record here.

MR. WEINGLASS: For purposes of facilitating cross-examination, it would be better --

THE COURT: I don't care, I don't care what is facilitating anything.

MR. WEINGLASS: Of course.

THE COURT: It is a record, it is C-R or whatever it is. Let's go. Let them look at it.

Page 22.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

(Pause)

(Discussion was held off the record at this time.)

(Pause)

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: Okay, we have examined the file and everything that we have, everything that is in this file is contained in our copies. Except for the photographs. Which we did not have a copy of.

MS. FISK: That's correct. I have these copies, and since it is the Sergeant's original file which I do not intend to mark because it is the property of Camden County. It has those photographs as well as additional ones: He only copied some. If Counsel would like to review them following his testimony I am sure he will have no objection to that.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Sergeant, is Commonwealth Exhibit 8 an accurate photocopy of the documents from the file of the Camden County Prosecutor' s Office regarding the investigation into the death of Cynthia Williams?

A. Yes, ma'am, they are.

Q. And you made that copy, sir?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

Page 23.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

Q. In addition, within Commonwealth Exhibit 8 there is a packet containing some photographs?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And are these photographs of the deceased Cynthia Williams taken both at the autopsy and the morgue as well as the condition in which she was found on the scene?

A. They are copies of the original photographs of what you described, yes, ma'am.

Q. And the original photographs, again, are in your actual file which is also beside you?

A. That is correct.

Q. Now, can you tell me, sir, based upon that file, is it correct that the Cynthia Williams, the person known -- well, is it correct that a woman's body was found in an abandoned building in Camden on September 2nd, 1992?

A. That is correct.

Q. Can you tell us, please, what if any efforts were made based upon your review of that file to identify that woman?

MR. WEINGLASS: Objection: Hearsay. The file speaks for itself.

THE COURT: Objection is overruled.

Come on. Go ahead.

Page 24.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

BY MS. FISK:

Q. You may answer the question.

MR. WEINGLASS: You are asking the witness to just read the file.

THE COURT: I don't care what she is asking. It is her witness.

MR. WEINGLASS: Yes, but it is an objectionable question.

THE COURT: Well, the objection is overruled. You take it up with the Supreme Court when you get there later on.

MS. FISK: Judge, I will restate the --

MR. WEINGLASS: We would hope to get correct rulings from this Court while here.

THE COURT: They are correct as far as I'm concerned, okay.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Does the file which is marked Commonwealth Exhibit 8 include within it as part of the investigation the report from the Medical Examiner, that is the autopsy of this woman who was found in the abandoned building?

A. Yes, ma'am, it does.

Q. And does that report reflect whether or not

Page 25.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

fingerprints were taken of that individual during the course of the autopsy?

A. Yes, ma'am, it does.

Q. Now, in your practice as a sergeant and assistant unit commander in the Camden County Prosecutor's Office, for what purpose are fingerprints taken during the post-mortem examination?

A. The most obvious: For identification of that person.

Q. And what happens with those fingerprints, please?

A. Once fingerprints are taken they are sent to the State Police for comparison. And what I mean by comparison is comparison of prints taken from the person to any prints that they have in their files.

Q. Now, in this case was that done?

A. Yes, ma'am, it was.

Q. And how do you know that?

A. We have a letter which is I guess one of the State Police reports that is sent to us identifying those fingerprints to a name.

MR. WEINGLASS: I'm sorry, is that letter in this file?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, it is.

Page 26.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

MR. WEINGLASS: It is? Okay.

THE COURT: Wait a while. You will have your chance. At's not your chance at the present time, okay. Wait until your time comes.

Go ahead.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. After these fingerprints which were taken during the post-mortem examination were sent to the State for identification purposes -- well, let me ask you this. Let's put fingerprints aside. At the time the body of the woman was found, were there identifying documents accompanying that body?

A. Yes, ma'am, there was.

Q. And in whose name are those documents?

A. Cynthia Williams.

Q. Now, did any of those documents identifying, identifying documents have a photograph on them, that is an ID card with a picture?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And was the person in that ID card the same person, from your observation, who was pictured at the scene as well as in the autopsy photographs?

A. That is correct.

Q. Now, did Camden County through use of the name Cynthia Williams identify a state identifying number

Page 27.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

of that person, or a person who was previously known to the Camden County Prosecutor's Office as Cynthia Williams?

A. That is correct.

Q. And what state identifying number was Cynthia Williams determined to be based on that name and the photographs and having seen her at the autopsy?

A. I would have to check the reports. May I?

Q. Please.

MS. WOLKENSTEIN: We need to know which document he is referring to.

THE COURT: Wait a while. You will have your turn when cross-examination comes.

Go ahead. Look for it.

THE WITNESS: The state identification number is 159986B.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. And how is that determination made within the Camden County Prosecutor's Office?

A. The investigator assigned to the case is required to fill out a rap sheet request, that is a criminal history request. That is sent to the Sheriff's Department. The Sheriff's Department checks that through their means, the computer -- again I am not sure exactly how -- but they put the

Page 28.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

ID number, the FBI ID number, and they send that back to us.

Q. And that is without fingerprints; is that correct?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. At the same time, however, fingerprints with that believed identification number is sent to New Jersey; is that how it's done?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. Now, at some point after the fingerprints were sent to the New Jersey State Police, you told us that you received some verification back?

A. Yes, ma'am, that is correct.

Q. Would you please turn to the document within the file which reflects the verification you received back?

A. I have it right here,

Q. And so the record is clear, in Commonwealth Exhibit 8 it appears to be the first document on, as you are facing the document on the left side of the file?

A. That is correct, ma'am.

Q. And could you tell us, please, the date of that letter?

A. 11-18-92.

Page 29.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

Q. And what does that letter reflect, please?

A. This is a letter indicating the comparison of fingerprints that are submitted on a Cynthia White with the same number that I read off: 159986B. There is some other information in regard to them purging their files. And down the bottom in the remarks column it has a/k/a Williams, Cynthia.

Q. Now, what do you mean about purging their files? What if anything are you familiar with -- well, you are not a member of the New Jersey State Troopers, are you, sir?

A. No, ma'am, I am not.

Q. And you have never been?

A. No, ma'am.

Q. What does purging files mean, so far as you understand it?

A. The files are erased or discarded.

Q. Does any such action like that take place within Camden County with regard to records of persons who are verified as deceased?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And how does that occur?

A. We keep sudden death investigations for a minimum of five years. After that we are allowed to go through them through proceedings, you know,

Page 30.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Direct

documenting, which is the Prosecutor of Camden County.

Q. Thank you, sir. Following the verification from the State Police that in fact Ms. Williams had been verified as Cynthia White and her prints had been matched, were there other means of identifying Ms. Williams, also known as Ms. White, done within Camden County?

A. There was a detailed criminal history, a rap sheet ran. In that rap sheet it lists aliases and names. And that is viewed and reviewed and placed in a file.

Q. Does the file also reflect whether or not investigators spoke to persons who knew the person who you knew as Ms. Williams to have her identified?

A. In regards to the investigation, yes, ma'am, it does.

Q. And was she indeed identified by others who knew her as Ms. Williams?

A. That's correct.

MS. FISK: Thank you, sir.

I have no further questions, Your Honor.

- - - - -

CROSS-EXAMINATION

- - - - -

Page 31.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Good morning, Sergeant Morgan.

A. Good, morning, sir.

Q. When were you asked to appear here today?

A. Yesterday afternoon.

Q. At what time?

A. I know I came back from lunch, I believe it was somewhere around two o'clock.

Q. And who requested that? Did you talk personally on the phone with someone?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And what did they identify themselves as being, whom?

A. Ms. Fisk, Arlene Fisk, the Assistant District Attorney for Philadelphia.

Q. And that was her first communication to you, that you're aware of?

A. That is correct, sir.

Q. Now, with the Commonwealth 8 in front of you, will you open to the document which I will show you by holding it up (displaying), which is a document entitled Request For Criminal History Record Information (displaying).

A. I have it here, sir.

Page 32.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

Q. All right. And so this document does exist in your file; is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And this document is a request for criminal history made by whom, if you can ascertain that?

A. It would have been made by the lead investigator from our office.

Q. I see. And do you know when this request was made, is it indicated on the document?

(Pause)

A. No, sir, it is not.

Q. Now, attached to the request is the response; is that correct?

A. You are referring to the rap sheet itself?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that response is a computerized response, is it not?

A. That is correct.

Q. And could you read into the record the very first line on the response?

A. This response not supported by fingerprint comparison.

Q. Okay. Now, this computerized printout that says this response not supported by fingerprint

Page 33.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

comparison, do you have a date for this response by looking at the document?

A. Third line down, date of record, 9-92. Are you referring to that date?

Q. No, the date that the response actually was sent back to the person in your office who requested this history.

(Pause)

A. On the last page before it gets into the one with a bunch of blocks, you will see a date of 9-9-92, 1425.

Q. I'm sorry, could you help me with that a little more. The last page before the blocks. 9-9-92?

A. Yes, sir. It's after arrest number 21.

Q. So that if someone like the person in your office requested this record information, they would have received a response that said not supported by fingerprint comparison?

A. I, I would have to say yes, sir. I guess that is a standard computerized program that prints that out.

Q. Right. By the way, this computerized response, who provides this computerized response, what agency?

Page 34.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

A. We submit the request to the Camden County Sheriff's Department, which is part of Camden County. They have some investigative units and they control the identification of inmates who have been arrested in Camden County.

Q. And so is it your testimony that the data that's on this document was the data that is in the computer in the Sheriff's Office in Camden County, or did they get it from some other agency?

A. I believe they are just like a terminal agency that would go up to the State. And it also goes to the FBI because there is a State rap sheet and a Federal rap sheet here.

Q. I see. And I gather from your answer that you can't tell by looking at this document whether or not this is FBI-generated information or State-of-New-Jersey-generated information?

A. At the second line under the first sentence it says multi-state record. I assume that to be FBI.

Q. FBI?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Right. Now look at the middle of that page also.

A. Are you referring to one particular line, sir?

Q. Yes; the line that says State of New Jersey,

Page 35.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

conviction of, State Police record of convictions?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is now State information?

A. Again I don't know whether the FBI information comes through the State, because underneath that it says multi-state record. So I am not sure how the computer kicks back the information.

Q. Right. And again we find the same refrain right there: This response not supported by fingerprint comparison?

A. That is correct.

Q. And it is repeated a third time on the same page towards the bottom?

A. That's probably repeated on a lot more of them, sir, yes.

Q. Yes. Now, the document which is Commonwealth 8, as I understand your testimony, resides now in the District Attorney's Office where you work in Camden County?

A. No, sir, it does not.

Q. Oh. You brought it with you today, but prior to your bringing it with you where was it, was it in your office?

A. I physically duplicated the package that I brought to the office today and gave to Ms. Fisk.

Page 36.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

Q. All right, my question, then, is where is the original file, prior to your copying it, where did you find it?

A. All files are maintained in file cabinets designated by the year. These files are maintained -- well, they were, in alphabetical order, until we got a new computer, and now they are maintained by a number system. So that room where the file cabinets are is connected to the homicide unit.

Q. I see. In the County Prosecutor's Office?

A. That is correct, in our building, again connected to our homicide unit.

Q. So that I guess the answer to my question would be if someone wanted the file, they would have to go to your office to obtain the file that you brought here today?

A. That is correct.

Q. Do you know if a --

A. Excuse me.

Q. -- if a copy of that file is also maintained in the coroner's office of the Medical Examiner's Office in Camden County?

A. Yes, sir, I do.

Q. Is it?

Page 37.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

A. Not in regards to our investigative or the police reports.

Q. I see. But a portion of the file would be in the Medical Examiner's Office?

A. That is correct.

Q. Right. And have you inquired of the Medical Examiner's Office as to the status of that file today?

A. No, sir, I did not.

Q. Right. And the portion that would be in the Medical Examiner's Office I assume would be that portion dealing with the Medical Examiner's work in this case?

A. That is correct.

Q. And your office, being the County Prosecutor's Office, goes beyond what the Medical Examiner does in that you investigate the deceased and the deceased's background?

A. That is correct.

Q. Prior to your receiving the call yesterday afternoon from Ms. Fisk, had anyone previously asked you to attempt to locate the file that's under the name of Cynthia Williams?

A. No, sir.

Q. No one from the D.A.'s Office to your

Page 38.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

knowledge has previously asked for that?

A. No, sir.

Q. And when your file is compiled, is there a distribution list of who you send the information to?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you in the regular course provide the information that your office has generated to the FBI about a deceased such as in this case?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you provide it to any State agency of New Jersey?

A. No, sir. Again, if it is requested there is procedures to be followed, the same as it would be for yourself, again for the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office. We do not normally just disperse these folders, no.

Q. No, of course. But if the District Attorney's Office of Philadelphia had asked you information about this individual let's say back in 1995, assuming your file was intact at that point, your office would have provided that information?

MS. FISK: Objection. Well, I will withdraw that.

THE COURT: Go ahead. You could answer it.

Page 39.

Sgt. Ronald Morgan - Cross

THE WITNESS: After they followed the procedures and guidelines set up by our office.

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Okay. Now, on the same line after that number there is something that says HFP?

MS. FISK: Sergeant Elizabeth Welch,

Page 59.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

please.

- - - - -

Sergeant Elizabeth Welch, New Jersey State Police,
having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

- - - - -

DIRECT EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Good morning, Sergeant Welch.

A. Good morning.

Q. Sergeant Welch, how are you employed?

A. I'm employed as a trooper with the New Jersey State Police in West Trenton.

Q. How long have you held the position as a trooper with the New Jersey State Police?

A. 17 years.

Q. What is your current assignment within the New Jersey State Police Department?

A. I'm in the records and identification section, the State Bureau of Identification.

Q. How long have you held that assignment?

A. I've been with R & I for the past 10 years.

Q. R and...?

A. Records & Identification.

Page 60.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

Q. And what is your responsibility as a member of that unit, R & I?

A. We are the central repository for all fingerprints of individuals arrested in the State of New Jersey. We create, maintain criminal rap sheets, and we deal with all applicants' fingerprints.

Q. Now, can you tell us generally what the process is when you receive from one of the counties within the State of New Jersey a request to identify fingerprints of a person who has been found dead in one of those counties?

A. When fingerprints come in on a fingerprint card that states the individual is dead, we take the fingerprints downstairs to the Automated Fingerprint Identification System, our AFIS unit. The SBI number, State Bureau of Identification number is on the card as well as the individual's name and other identifiers.

The card is brought up on a terminal screen, computer screen, the card that's sent in with the fingerprints on it, and it is a side-by-side comparison to the individual's criminal rap sheet fingerprints.

Q. What if the card comes into you with a name other than the name which is maintained by your main

Page 61.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

records room?

A. If the name is different it makes no difference to us because it is strictly at this point a side-by-side fingerprint comparison.

Q. So if Social Security numbers are different that doesn't matter?

A. Nothing matters but the fingerprints.

Q. Now, if in fact you receive a fingerprint card from a county and you are able to find a matching fingerprint in your database, what then occurs?

A. The fingerprint technician compares them side by side, ascertains that it is the exact same person. We then take the verified dead card upstairs and the entire record will be purged in a matter of 30 days. We send out a record to the contributor, a form saying we have identified your person, we have the fingerprints on file, that the individual has been verified dead. And within 30 days we will purge the record.

Q. And what do you mean by purge the record?

A. Completely destroy. It's removed in all paper and electronic form.

Q. Once the New Jersey State Police verifies the identification of a person as being dead, do you notify any other law enforcement agencies, other than

Page 62.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

the contributing county?

A. No, just the contributor of the verified dead fingerprint card.

Q. Do you notify the FBI?

A. No, we do not. The FBI's really not interested in purging records.

Q. Do you send a copy of the fingerprints which you have utilized to identify someone as dead to the FBI?

A. No, we do not.

Q. Why is that?

A. We operate on a two-fingerprint-card system in the State of New Jersey: A State and a Federal. We rarely if ever get more than one card in on a verified dead. So we keep that for our own records.

Q. And once you are prepared to purge, do you share that at that point with the Federal authorities?

A. Yes; when we are purging the records we send a message through the terminal to the FBI that we have verified dead fingerprints and we are purging our records and we notify them.

Q. Now, you have Commonwealth Exhibit 8 in front of you, I believe. Oh, I'm sorry. If you would please open Commonwealth Exhibit 8. And on the

Page 63.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

document directly underneath the brown manila folder --

A. Hmm-hmm.

Q. -- is a letter. Do you recognize that letter and that form of letter?

A. Yes; that is a typical death notification response back to the originating agency that has sent us the verified dead fingerprints.

Q. And is that a response verifying that Cynthia Williams, who was determined also to be identified based on State master files as Cynthia White, was indeed the person whose fingerprints were sent to your office and that she was verified dead?

A. Without a doubt.

Q. And that was done on the basis of fingerprints that were sent to the New Jersey State Police?

A. That's correct.

Q. Back in 1992?

A. That is correct.

Q. And what is the date of that letter, incidentally?

A. It is dated 11-18-92.

Q. Can a death be verified by your unit by any means other than fingerprints?

A. No; fingerprints are the one true identifier.

Page 64.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

Q. And what if, what if I were to die in front of you and there are 19 people, members of my family, who are swearing on a Bible that it is me, would you verify me dead?

A. Not unless they sent us your prints.

Q. In addition to sending that letter to Camden County as the contributor of the fingerprints, are any logs or notations made within your State office that reflects that an individual person has been verified as dead?

A. Yes, we keep a paper log.

MS. FISK: May I ask, Your Honor, that this document be marked as Commonwealth Exhibit 9, and a copy for Counsel (handing).

(Verified dead listings was marked
Commonwealth Exhibit C-9 for identification.)

(Pause)

THE COURT OFFICER: So marked C-9, Your Honor.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Sergeant, Commonwealth Exhibit 9 is a black-and-white photocopy of a document which you have a color photocopy of I believe with you; is that correct?

A. That's correct.

Page 65.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

Q. And can you identify what has been marked Commonwealth Exhibit 9?

A. Yes.

Q. What is it, please?

A. This is a list of, we call them verified deads. When we receive fingerprints in to verify that an individual is deceased, we make up a list of all the fingerprints, we make up a list of their names. The numbers next to them are the FBI number.

Q. I'm sorry, the what number?

A. FBI, Federal Bureau of Identification.

A. Next to that is a column to check to see whether any of the records were expunged. Next is a column for State Bureau of Identification numbers, also known as SBI number. And then what information was deleted from that record.

Q. And by deletion, is that the purging that you were referring to?

A. Purging, correct.

Q. Now, these documents are kept in a loose-leaf in Trenton?

A. Yes, it is just more or less a paper file.

Q. And there is one particular page out of that file from, there is a date up on top, November 19th,

Page 66.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

1992?

A. That is correct.

Q. Utilizing this document, please, the name second from the bottom, can you read the name which appears on this log of verified deads?

A. Last name is White, first name is Cynthia.

Q. Next to that is there handwritten an FBI number?

A. Yes; it's 934288 Romeo 7.

Q. And how was that FBI number determined?

A. That FBI number is contained right on the individual's rap sheet or criminal history.

Q. Which is maintained in your master files?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. Then the next file check expungement, there is an X in the no column?

A. That is correct.

Q. What does that mean?

A. That indicates that there were no files for Cynthia White that had been previously expunged.

Q. Next is the SBI number. Can you please read to us the SBI number which appears on this verified dead log?

A. 159986 Bravo.

Q. Now, again, is that an SBI number which as a

Page 67.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

result of the State Bureau of Identification -- I know I have the right letters -- your unit's identification determined based on the master list?

A. That is correct. Once an individual is originally arrested in the State of New Jersey they are assigned an SBI number. That number stays with them their entire criminal career regardless of any other identifying information that they might give.

Q. Based on this notation in the verified dead log, are you telling us, then, that the fingerprints which were sent to you matched those of this person who was already contained in the master files in Trenton?

A. That is correct.

MR. WEINGLASS: Objection: Leading.

May we have a ruling?

THE COURT: She may be but it's not harmful.

Go ahead. Let's go.

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Can you tell us what the next handwritten notations are in that SBI number column?

A. It says by and then it has what we call an ORI number, which is the originating number of the department that sent us the fingerprint card: NJ

Page 68.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

004013A as in Alpha, which is the originating agency number for Camden County Prosecutor's Office. And the date below it, 9-2-92, would have been the date on the fingerprint card as the date of death.

Q. Now, your next three, your next four columns under Delete: Are these notations made at the time of verification, or are these notations made 30 days thereafter at the time you are preparing to purge the documents?

A. At the time of purge these are made.

Q. All right. What is that first column: MNI?

A. MNI is master name index. That's the mechanism by which you go in to look up an individual by name and date of birth or Social Security number. That was deleted.

Q. All right. Next?

A. Next is the actual CCH record, the computerized criminal history record, or otherwise known as a rap sheet, that was deleted.

Q. All right, next?

A. Next is an CDR database. This no longer exists, but at the time if there was an open, an open or pending charge that we did not have a disposition for, that would have been deleted. This indicates that there was no open or pending charge in New

Page 69.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Direct

Jersey.

Q. All right. And last?

A. And the last is triple I. Triple I is the interstate identification index. These are arrests from any state outside the State of New Jersey. They were all deleted as far as New Jersey was concerned.

Q. Based on the presence of Cynthia White's name on this verified dead log, Sergeant, are you able to tell us whether or not Cynthia White, whose SBI number and FBI number appeared on this log, was identified via fingerprints as having died in Camden County on September 2nd, 1992?

A. Yes, it is the same individual without a doubt.

MS. FISK: Thank you.

I have nothing further, Your Honor.

- - - - -

CROSS-EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Good morning, Sergeant Welch.

A. Good morning.

Q. I understand that you are here testifying because this document C-9 is within the ambit of your custody?

Page 70.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

A. That is correct.

Q. You did not have anything to do yourself personally with the investigation back in '92?

A. No, sir.

Q. So you only know what's on the documents that you brought to Court today?

A. That's correct.

Q. Is there a bureau of vital statistics in New Jersey?

A. I couldn't testify to that, sir.

Q. You don't know if there is such a bureau?

A. I cannot say.

Q. When your office does these checks and makes an identification, is that information distributed to other agencies of the government of New Jersey besides the requesting agency?

A. Not by us, sir, no.

Q. Is it distributed by anyone who you know of?

A. No, sir. We require the fingerprints and it is strictly for in-house purge of our own records.

Q. Your own records. And your own, you are referring to the State Police of New Jersey?

A. Ahh, well, as the central repository for all the fingerprints in the entire State regardless if it was an arrest by State Police or a municipal

Page 71.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

department or a county department.

Q. I don't know if you could answer this but if someone is seeking a person who might be dead and they don't know, and they go to the New Jersey bureau of vital statistics, would they have the information in that bureau that your office has generated?

A. Not directly from us. From some other means, I don't know if they use other data banks, but I know they do not have access to CCH.

Q. I see. Now, I am trying to also understand the process of deletion.

A. All right.

Q. One of the things that's marked on C-9 is a deletion of CCH?

A. Correct.

Q. Is that right?

A. Hmm-hmm.

Q. And you told us, what is CCH?

A. CCH stands for computerized criminal history, within the State of New Jersey.

Q. That's within the State?

A. Correct.

Q. Is there a national CCH?

A. Yes, that's triple I. Interstate identification index, that is the FBI's program for

Page 72.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

all the states to become involved in.

Q. So you in New Jersey, when you delete, do you delete it from the Federal records, the national records as well?

A. We delete all the New Jersey arrests from the Federal system.

Q. But the other arrests would stay?

A. We have nothing to do with any other state's arrests so we wouldn't touch theirs.

Q. I see. So if you could look back on Commonwealth 8 for this document which is a request for criminal history (displaying). And it has attached to it a computerized response.

A. Which side is that on?

MS. FISK: The other.

THE WITNESS: The other. Okay, request for criminal history record information?

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Yes, and I am interested mainly in the response.

A. All right.

Q. Which is computerized.

A. All right.

Q. When you delete from CCH and triple I --

A. Hmm-hmm.

Page 73.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

Q. -- does this document continue to exist?

A. No. This does not exist anymore (displaying). This is the first I've seen it.

Q. I see. This being the response to the request?

A. Right. This is an actual criminal history response on Cynthia White (displaying), which no longer exists in our files.

Q. In your files?

A. Correct.

Q. Right. But it would still exist in the multi-state file, minus the New Jersey information?

A. No New Jersey information would be in the multi-state file at all.

Q. Right. Because you have deleted it?

A. Correct.

Q. But information from other states would still be in --

A. Triple I, correct.

Q. Triple I?

A. That's correct.

Q. And the document would still exist even today?

A. Which document are you speaking of?

Q. The computerized response.

A. This computerized response? Or a computerized

Page 74.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

response?

Q. A computerized response.

A. You can get Cynthia White's information from other states.

Q. Yes?

A. But you won't get anything from New Jersey because we expunged it.

Q. Exactly.

A. Right.

Q. So that --

A. Purged it.

Q. Purged. In 1995, the information in a computerized response on Cynthia White would have existed, minus the New Jersey --

A. Information.

Q. -- information?

A. Correct.

Q. You can't tell us what Cynthia White's real name is, can you?

A. No. When we receive fingerprints in, it makes no difference what information they put down on the card. The name that they put down becomes their master name. And their date of birth and Social Security number. Anything that they supply us afterwards is listed as an alias.

Page 75.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

Q. Okay. So in Commonwealth 8 we have an individual named Cynthia Williams, an individual named Cynthia Drake, an individual named Mildred Saunders, and other names?

A. Right.

Q. Yes?

A. The record was constructed from the fingerprint cards and the fingerprint comparison.

Q. Now, I think you mentioned also that when you do have purging, your office sends a message to the FBI?

A. That's correct.

Q. And could you tell us what that message is and what happens?

A. It's a message right through the computer terminal after our data input operator's purge. They send the message to the FBI indicating that we received fingerprints verifying this individual is dead and that we are purging our records.

Q. And what does the FBI do with that information, if you know?

A. They just list it as an identifier -- not identifier, but like a notice on their rap sheets, their own rap sheets, that this person has been confirmed dead by New Jersey.

Page 76.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Cross

Q. Do they say confirmed dead by fingerprints?

A. They put, I would have to refer to something in here to find it for you, if you wanted me to read it specifically. I know they use the word deceased.

Q. I see. But you don't know if they use confirmed dead by fingerprints, for instance?

A. Do you want me to look?

Q. If you can find it, yes.

A. Okay.

The copy states the FBI has been notified of the subject's death. However, this information has not been confirmed by fingerprint comparison. Date of death is listed. And notified by, and that would be State Police.

Q. And that's what's sent?

A. That's right. What that means is they don't have any fingerprints, we have the fingerprints.

Q. Right, but it says -- can you read that again -- fingerprint not confirmed?

A. The FBI has been notified of the subject's death, however this information has not been confirmed by fingerprint comparison.

MR. WEINGLASS: Fine. I have nothing further.

MS. FISK: May I?

Page 77.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Redirect

THE COURT: Sure.

- - - - -

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MS. FISK:

Q. The document which you just read to us, that comes from the FBI?

A. That's correct, that's a response back from our response.

Q. Right, so you notify the FBI that you have verified a dead based on fingerprint comparison?

A. That's correct.

Q. The FBI is then allowing every other state who might use their multi-state to know that in New Jersey this person has been verified dead?

A. That's correct.

Q. Though the FBI has not had an opportunity to review fingerprints on their own?

A. That's correct.

Q. And that's because you never sent a separate copy of those fingerprints to the FBI?

A. Right.

Q. That is not within the practice or procedure of New Jersey?

A. That's correct.

Page 78.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Recross

MS. FISK: Thank you.

- - - - -

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Just one last question to follow up on that. So if someone were to inquire of the FBI, the information they would get is not confirmed by fingerprints?

A. They would get the individual's entire criminal rap sheet from other states.

Q. Right.

A. And this caveat would be included in there, that New Jersey has confirmed them dead, but they, the FBI is not holding fingerprints on this individual confirming them dead.

Q. Well, look at Commonwealth 8, the printout. It just says, does it not, this response not supported by fingerprint comparison?

A. Yes; what that means is --

Q. That's all it says. It doesn't --

THE COURT: Well, let her answer you.

MR. WEINGLASS: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

THE WITNESS: What that means if you were a police officer --

Page 79.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Recross

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Right?

A. -- and you have a suspect, so you go to the terminal and you're doing a CCH look-up, a rap sheet look-up, you are putting in a name, a date of birth, maybe a Social Security number. You're not sending us fingerprints saying this is the person I have, who is it, so we can respond back to you. You're just putting in a name and date of birth. So that's to protect us from being sued.

What we are saying is, the division of State Police is saying based on the name and date of birth and whatever identifiers you have put in, this is the record for that person.

Q. Not confirmed by fingerprint comparison?

A. Right. If you send us a set of fingerprints, that would be a different story.

Q. Right.

A. But just on a name or date of birth check, or Social Security number, that is the response we would send because you are not sending us fingerprints right now.

Q. And if someone were to inquire of the FBI by computer, the printout that they would get would say this response not supported by fingerprint

Page 80.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Recross

comparison?

A. I can't testify as to the FBI response.

Q. I see.

A. I don't know how they create their records.

Q. I see.

(Discussion was held off the record among defense Counsel.)

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Lastly, so that I understand: If you make a match between someone who is found deceased in New Jersey with the records that you have of that individual's fingerprints based on the prior criminal history, New Jersey will purge that information from New Jersey files, but if someone inquires through the Federal authorities or through other states, there might not be any indication in those files that such a match has been made?

A. It is indicated on their record, their out-of-state record. It will say New Jersey, it will have the SBI number listed, and next to it will have the word deceased. That's the only information you'll see on there in reference to that.

Q. But nothing about fingerprint confirmation?

A. No, they know that we only would mark someone deceased verified with prints.

Page 81.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Recross

Q. Right, right. And with respect to Commonwealth 8, which says no confirmation -- I'm sorry -- not supported by fingerprint comparison, that also will continue to exist in the national records?

A. Yes, because you're not sending them fingerprints, you're just asking through a terminal based on name and date of birth.

MR. WEINGLASS: I have nothing further.

MS. FISK: Could the witness be shown Commonwealth Exhibit 2, please, just for clarification purposes.

- - - - -

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Sergeant, do you recognize this document which is marked Commonwealth Exhibit 2? I believe actually that is a photocopy. Well, that's all right. Nevertheless, it is a photocopy of Commonwealth Exhibit 2. Do you recognize this document, or this type of document?

(Pause)

A. Yes; this is a triple I record response.

Page 82.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Redirect

Q. And is that for Cynthia White, whose FBI number is 934288R7, and whose SBI number is 159986B?

A. 9986B, that's correct.

Q. Also, just so it is clear, also on the first page is Cynthia White's Philadelphia Police photo number indicated?

A. That's correct.

Q. What Philadelphia Police number is indicated on this triple I response? If you are able to read that.

A. That is that PPN number?

Q. Yes.

A. 573095.

Q. On the last page of this document, is there the notations which you just referred to regarding the verification of death made on the basis of fingerprints by the New Jersey State Police?

A. That's correct, it says New Jersey, it lists our State ID number, and the word deceased.

MS. FISK: Thank you, ma'am.

- - - - -

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MR. WEINGLASS:

Q. Right, but it doesn't say verified by

Page 83.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Recross

fingerprints?

A. That's the only way we would mark someone deceased.

Q. Does it say verified by fingerprints?

A. No, that is known.

Q. That is known to you in New Jersey?

A. Right.

Q. But if someone looks at the same record they will know that for the FBI numbers, there is no indication of deceased?

A. No, because the FBI would hold her active record and other states as well that have not marked her as deceased.

Q. Right, and for New York there is no indication of deceased?

A. That's correct.

Q. And nowhere does it say fingerprints?

A. That's the only way we do it, sir.

Q. Yes, I know that is the way you do it, but from the point of view of a reader, you don't see fingerprints on this document?

A. These documents can be very difficult to read, especially when you are dealing with different states, every state is different.

Q. Right. By the way, this document which is the

Page 84.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Redirect

triple I, is that available information only to law enforcement, to your knowledge?

A. That's correct.

Q. Only to law enforcement?

A. That's correct.

Q. And it's, would you say it's readily available to law enforcement?

A. It depends if you have a computer terminal.

Q. If Philadelphia has a computer terminal they could get this in a matter of a minute?

A. If they have a computer terminal with a hookup to CCH, yes.

Q. They could have gotten it in '95, '96, '97?

A. If there were arrests there for that period, yes.

MR. WEINGLASS: All right, I have nothing further.

- - - - -

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

- - - - -

BY MS. FISK:

Q. Is there any chance, Sergeant, that Cynthia White, that because she is not listed as deceased by the FBI, is alive in any other state outside the State of New Jersey?

Page 85.

Sgt. Elizabeth Welch - Redirect

She is definitely dead in New Jersey.

MS. FISK: Thank you.

THE COURT: Are you finished?

MS. FISK: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you very much. You are excused.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.

MS. FISK: I have nothing further, Your Honor.

Oh, I'm sorry, Your Honor. Actually, in light of the testimony presented by the defense on Thursday and again yesterday, since the defense has chosen not to call Detective Richard Ryan, I would request permission to do so. I would request permission to call Detective Richard Ryan, who is the detective referred to by Ms. Jenkins in her testimony, as well as former officer Ryan.

THE COURT: Do you object to her calling him?

MR. WEINGLASS: No, Your Honor, the defense, the Assistant District Attorney had an opportunity to call him during their presentation of their case. We were told we were coming here today to hear from several

Page 86.

State Police from New Jersey, the reason why we came back, because they are out-of-state witnesses and they weren't available to the defense. I object to now the hearing being expanded back into areas that have nothing to do with the death of Cynthia White, absolutely nothing to do with her death, and are not New Jersey state troopers and have nothing to do with the purpose for which this Court especially convened Court today.

MS. FISK: Judge, I would note for the record that Ms. Jenkins testified that she saw Detective Ryan in the presence of Ms. White in March of this year. Nevertheless, so long as the record reflects that Detective Ryan was present as a result of a defense subpoena, has been in the Courtroom, has been available to the defense -- and the defense has the burden in these proceedings -- and has opted not to call him, I would respect that request by Counsel for the limited purpose of today's remand and I will not call him.

THE COURT: Okay.

MS. FISK: Does that complete these proceedings?

Page 87.

THE COURT: Sure, as far as I am concerned.

MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor, the defense --

THE COURT: I already ruled on the subpoenas of these people.

MR. WEINGLASS: -- would request our investigator Don Burton to testify about the death of Cynthia White.

THE COURT: What does he know about the death?

MR. WEINGLASS: He has examined the record and he has done an investigation into her death. He has directly relevant information.

THE COURT: So she is still alive?

MR. WEINGLASS: He has done an investigation, Judge.

THE COURT: Is she alive?

MR. WEINGLASS: I know no better than this Court knows whether she is alive or not.

THE COURT: Well, as far as I'm concerned she's dead. Now, if you say she is alive go out and get her, bring her in. We will be glad to hear --

MR. WEINGLASS: We will put on a

Page 88.

witness who will testify about efforts in that regard.

THE COURT: I am not concerned about all the efforts in the world. I have heard evidence that she is definitely dead. As far as I'm concerned she's dead.

MR. WEINGLASS: He has examined the documentary evidence which the Court has on her death for the defense. And he has testimony to offer on this documentary evidence.

THE COURT: I don't need his help. I am making a ruling we are finished. You go back to the Supreme Court. If they want to send it back for anymore testimony from anybody in the world, fine, let them send it down and I will hear it. As far as I'm concerned, it's completed.

MR. BURNS: Judge, if the Court please: Counsel will be submitting proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law?

THE COURT: Yes, when would you like?

MR. BURNS: As soon as I get the notes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

- - - - -

Page 89.

(The hearing was concluded at 12:15 p.m.)

- - - - -

Page 90.

I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on the trial of the above cause, and that this copy is a correct transcript of the same.

Official Stenographer

Date

The foregoing record of the proceedings upon the trial of the above cause is hereby approved and directed to be filed.

Judge