on-reflection-digest    Saturday, August 28 1999    Volume 01 : Number 1837



gg: mammiepoll
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House 
gg: new mammiepoll
Re: no gg:Skunk Baxter...
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
gg: Who Julian should see; Fish Rising; Flecktones; the sky goes all the way home
gg: Re: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"
Re: nongg: Steve Hillagefish 
gg: ellipses (was Re: Pretentious; GYBE!; Ponty DiMeola Clarke; NFL!; Mammiepoll;Baxter)
gg: NoGG: Jellyfish
gg: Fish Rising
gg: Manticore paper cover reissue
gg: Free Hand and CD review
gg: Skunk Baxter...
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
Re: gg: Pretentious
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
Re: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"
Re: gg: Flecktones
gg: Pretentious Yes/GG
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
gg: Re: Re: GG <-> Yes
Re: gg: Gier goes to GorGG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:54:20 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: gg: mammiepoll

Words from the Mammiewise:
> When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately?

'74 or so, I was 17 or 18. I've told the story before, and won't repeat all of
it, but I heard GG first time when TPatG was new. See, a guy had told me there
was this "great band called GG that requires a lot from the listener and ah just
forget it it's probably too advanced for you... ".
After that I _had_ to try, but somehow this guy had gotten to me. Though I loved
Proclamation right away and kinda liked So Sincere, I doubted if I would have
good enough ears for this So Sincere stuff.
Just in time I got some degree of a grip and bought Octopus (the Roger dean cover
did it!), only to return within the hour to buy TPatG as well, with a check I had
found on my way home. This is theft, boys and girls! And the only story I can
tell my grandchildren as well. How sad!  ;^)

c-ya,
v-bert

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:15 -0400
From: "dr" 
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House 

Well, thank you very much on behalf of the city where I was born !   :-)
QC is one of the last remaining places in America ( I think...) where a prog
band may play live with a respectable number of people in the audience.
DR

- -----Message d'origine-----
De : Benson, Tom 
À : 'on-reflection@lists.uoregon.edu' 
Date : 27 août, 1999 13:43
Objet : RE: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House


>This probably doesn't help this specific request, but I have to share this
>anyway... I just returned from a trip through parts of Canada, and I was
>mightily impressed by the high profile of "PROGRESSIF" music in record
>shops in Quebec City. I may have to move there.
>
>In fact, one shop actually had a hanging display which was a repro of
>the 'window' picture from the IAGH cover! It was hanging over the prog
>section and said something like "In a Glass House - available here -
>limited quantities." I just about fell over. They had 2 copies (Terrapin).
>I did see a copy in another shop as well. So, for those who can't wait
>any longer, Quebec City is a great place to visit anyway...
>
>Tom
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:25:32 -0400
From: "Adrianne Bosco" 
Subject: gg: new mammiepoll

> This discussion got me thinking. It's time for another
> mammiepoll! When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? Did

Okay, I'll unlurk for this one...

I was 22 when I discovered GG (long ago in Nov 98 ;).  A coworker of mine is
a prog fan, and GG is his favorite band.  I hadn't heard any prog other than
Rush and Tull, so he offered to make me a tape.  It included 7 GG songs,
including Playing the Game, Cogs in Cogs, Boys in the Band, Knots, etc.  I
fell in love with Playing the Game and Cogs in Cogs, so I ordered Power and
the Glory soon after.  I've slowly been getting the others, but I'm now so
overwhelmed with new music that I can't keep up.  After all, I have 30 years
of great music to catch up on!

Adrianne

www.connix.com/~abosco
"Shake your head as the world just nods away" - echolyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:29:27 -0400
From: Tomas 
Subject: Re: no gg:Skunk Baxter...

At 12:13 PM 8/27/1999 -0400, veeter@vermontel.net wrote:

>Yeah, I was excited to hear Jeff 'Skunk' Baxter was running, till I
>heard he was running for the Grand Old Party(of corporate welfare,
>billionaires and neanderthals).

You'd rather he run for the Jackass Party of whiners, liars, and the "do it
for the childern" manipulators?

:-)


***************************************************************************
* Tomas                      *  "Tolerance is the virtue of the man       *
* West Chazy, NY  USA        *   without convictions."  - GK Chesterton   *
* tomas@slic.com             *   		                          *
***************************************************************************
* Howie Web:       http://www.howies.org/                                 *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:47:57 -0600
From: Michael Eisenberg 
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House

Hi all,

dr wrote:

> Well, thank you very much on behalf of the city where I was born !   :-)
> QC is one of the last remaining places in America ( I think...) where a prog
> band may play live with a respectable number of people in the audience.
> DR

I'm just curious what you consider a "respectable" number is...I've had some
shows in Chicago that I though were attended by a respectable audience.  Sure,
we aren't talking the 70's here where they used to fill up amphithearters but
if I get anything over 75 and the band sells a bunch of cd's and is happy by a
very enthusiatic 75...then I certainly consider that "respectable".

Michael Eisenberg

- --
Outré Music
Music Beyond Boundaries

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:09:16 -0700
From: "Scott Steele" 
Subject: gg: Who Julian should see; Fish Rising; Flecktones; the sky goes all the way home

>I need some help picking out which Jazz gig to attend with my wife at the free Montreux Detroit Jazz Festival on Labour Day Weekend.

>THE ELVIN JONES MACHINE(Most likely will attend this?)

>JOEY DEFRANCESCO(Miles and Mcglaughlin's organist)

You may get lucky - Joey and Elvin did a duo in Paris.  It was supposed to be a trio but McLaughlin called in sick.  Go see both of these guys if you can.

>Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? I had Hillage's "L" and didn't care for it much. Is "Fish Rising" a piece of crap or does it deserve all the praise? Please let me know.

Fish Rising is killin'.  It's the big jam-out portions of Gong "You" separated out into its own record.  It's better than any of the Gong records.  So go get it now.  Don't listen to that man Simon.

>I don't recall ever being turned off or unmoved by something done by GG until that infamous blue album with the mask on the cover....

Made for a tasty piece of candy though.

>do you guys have recommendations for exploring the Flecktones - what to check out and what to avoid?

Avoid none.  Seek out Live Art.

>www.zoo.co.uh/~nw/thesky

This worked when I changed the h to a k.  I want to buy this CD.  - S.

np:  Firesign Theatre, Waiting for the Electrician (Let's go pick up Tiny Dr. Tim)

scottst@ohsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:37:14 -0400
From: "drj_saro" 
Subject: gg: Re: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Reginald Dunlop 
Subject: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"

>Hello again Giants!
>Has anyone purchased the reissue of DELIVERY's "Fool's Meeting" on
Cuneiform
>Records? If so, is it worth the money for hearing some early Pip
>Pyle(drums), Phil Miller(guitar) and Steve Miller(keyboards).

i have had a tape of the LP for years and only listened to it a few times
(you know my appetite for C'bury, so that should tell you _something_.).


>What I really want to know is...Does it sound anything like Caravan or
Hatfield?

there are little instrumental bits that _do_, but they are few and far
between.


>Is this classic Canterbury or 2nd rate Canterbury material?


the thing is, it isn't very stereotypical "Canterbury" at all - it's much
bluesier, with a female R&B-type vocalist  (and you seem to have a higher
tolerance for blues/R&B than i do, if i remember correctly.)

>
>Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"?

now _this_ is a must have if you like Khan or Hilliage's contributions to
Gong.
it is much less "shiny" than "L" and much more _fun_.

thank you for your time and attention.

Julius J. SAROKA
drj_saro@neo.rr.com
Cuyahoga Falls OHIO

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:13:07 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: nongg: Steve Hillagefish 

In a message dated 8/27/99 9:19:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time, 
chiefs18@hotmail.com writes:

<< Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? I had Hillage's "L" and 
 didn't care for it much. Is "Fish Rising" a piece of crap or does it deserve 
 all the praise? Please let me know. >>

Buy it!!!  Hillage and Stewart really groove on this one. It's one of my 
personal faves if that means anything to you...I like "L" too, but "Fish" is 
much better.

Claudio

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:18:29 -0700
From: "Frank Lauria" 
Subject: gg: ellipses (was Re: Pretentious; GYBE!; Ponty DiMeola Clarke; NFL!; Mammiepoll;Baxter)

Thanks to all for the GYBE! responses...I may be checking them out next week
(they're 2nd billed to Mogwai--now anybody got a take on them?)

Thanks also to Bro Sqeele for the P-D-C info...glad you enjoyed the Kazuhito
Yamashita tape (I still owe you a track list).

Sorry Slammin' Simon won't be able to make Nyuk-Nyuk this fall...hope your
sitch improves soon.

Julian, any one of those shows would be cool...but if you wanna hear a
burnin' '90s version of Jimmy McGriff/Jack McDuff-style jazz organ, you
can't beat the boy from Philly...

Heading to the Jeff Beck show tomorrow night...after not having seen him
since the '80s, this'll be the 2nd time I've seen him in 7 months.

Been away, so if I owe anybody anything (tape, response, etc.) please let me
know.

P-Frank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:22:41 -0700
From: "Frank Lauria" 
Subject: gg: NoGG: Jellyfish

Forgot to mention that I picked up two Jellyfish/"Bellybutton" CDs the other
day; anybody need one?

P-Frank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:49:33 -0400
From: "David and Stacey Shur" 
Subject: gg: Fish Rising

> chiefs18@hotmail.com writes:
> << Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising?

Fish Rising is my favorite Hillage album.  Quirky, with great melodies,
solos, and the usual fishy stuff.   Great keyboards by Dave Stewart as
ell!  -David Eric

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:23:36 -0400
From: Tatsurou Ueda 
Subject: gg: Manticore paper cover reissue

Hi all.

Just a quick note to let you all know that I'm wrapping up the
consolidated
purchase offer for the Manticore (Banco/PFM/Pete Sinfield/Stray Dog)
and Atomic Rooster/Uriah Heap CD reissues.
Also want to let you know some of the EL&P paper-jacket reissues are
still available.
If interested, I'll accept order request untill 10:00am 8/27(EST USA).

Tatsurou

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:45:36 +0200
From: casglatze@t-online.de (casglatze)
Subject: gg: Free Hand and CD review

Hi, everyone,
two quick things:
1) the "mispress" Free Hand CD: I know that this topic has been dealt with 
before, but as I only got my copy today, let me add a few thoughts to the 
discussion. I think that this is by no means a totally different master tape, 
but simply a different (or early and then rejected) mix. The only real 
difference I was able to discover was the partially missing guitar on Free Hand. 
Does anybody have the DEFINITVE story on the history? I think that what made 
many people talk about a different master was the fact that the sound is 
different. And this is where I disagree with MANY members of the list who said 
that the "mispress" was absolutely inferior in sound. I have to say that it is 
absolutely superior to the regular One Way release (I'm not taking into account 
other Free Hand releases, as everybody works differently with the tapes). The 
regular release is muddy, while the "mispress" sounds as crisp as anything. I 
much prefer it to the regular One Way release. Discuss!
2) I found another Gentle Giant review in the 9/99 issue of "Record Collector" 
magazine from Britain which I want to share with the list. Here goes...

Gentle Giant
Live - Playing The Fool/Civilian
BGO CD 435 (78:12)
This two-on-one CD features remastered albums by the slightly barking 
progmeisters, led by Ray Shulman and guitar wizard Gary Green. A superb 20-page 
booklet details the high-jinks behind the Giants on the road in the mid-70s, and 
the recording of their last studio album from 1980. "Just The Same" showcases 
all the syncopated Zappa-esque wah-wah and flutey keys that were par for the 
Giant course, before "Proclamation" brings in the crazy Colosseum II-style 
jazz-fusion and mandolin madness. Medieval pipe textures, florid saxophone and 
harpsichord doodles break through before "Funny Ways" lives up to its billing 
with xylophonic pomp. Daft on paper, granted, but it's still oddly gripping, 
especially when hints of hybrid Yes/Genesis sneak in, only to be beaten into 
retreat by the tattoo drums of "So Sincere". Other numbers are more mainstream, 
but then that's not what GG were about.
This could explain their demise on entering the more accessible world or AOR for 
"Civilian". There are spacey keyboards to complement raging drums on 
"Convenience", and "Shadows On The Street" is heavenly. But other pieces tune 
into Journey/Kansas frequencies, while "Underground" could be unborn Dream 
Theater. "I Am A Camera" bolts along with Squire/White chirpiness, although 
quirky moments appear throughout, as usual. If you haven't indulged yourself 
before, this could be a suitable primer to the sonically flat-earth world of 
Gentle Giant.
Tim Jones

...okay, and why not pass on the Fixx review I found in the same issue. At 
first, I didn't want to post it, as it doesn't say anything at all. But here's 
for all Fixx completists...

1980s pop-rockers The Fixx have come back with their first studio album in 
years. "Elemental", cleverly packaged by SPV as a triple-album set, the 
remaining sides being the "1011 Woodland" live collection. The 27 songs include 
hits like "Stand Or Fall" and "Red Skies", sitting alongside the new, funkier 
sounds of Cy Curnin and company. Two luscious booklets give the lowdown on the 
quartet's latest activities.

See, I told you...

And two more quick notes:

As I started the "Q" debate (I love the mag), let me say that one shouldn't take 
the mag too seriously all the time. However, I think it is very wittily written 
and does indeed offer lots of articles and columns that other mags around the 
world copy. Q, as well as Mojo, Ice and RC, are desert-island mags for me.

If anyone on the list goes to see Billy Connolly at the former London 
Hammersmith Odeon (whatever it's called now) on October 30, why don't you get in 
touch with me, as I'll be there. Write.

Carsten the Krautmeister

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:43:43 -0700
From: William Tindall 
Subject: gg: Skunk Baxter...

Jeff "The Smelly One" Baxter running for office makes me wonder mightily if I'm awake or not.  His platform has got to be an actual pair of platforms.  His slogan just has to be "Damn straight I inhaled!  What do I look like, an idiot??"  He was a fine guitarist, but does he have a clue?  I dunno, I'll give him a chance.  What the hey.

Votes for sale!

Bill T

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:12:31 -0400
From: "dr" 
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House

De : Michael Eisenberg 


>Hi all,
>
>I'm just curious what you consider a "respectable" number is...I've had
some
>shows in Chicago that I though were attended by a respectable audience.
Sure,
>we aren't talking the 70's here where they used to fill up amphithearters
but
>if I get anything over 75 and the band sells a bunch of cd's and is happy
by a
>very enthusiatic 75...then I certainly consider that "respectable".
>
>Michael Eisenberg
>
>--
>Outré Music
>Music Beyond Boundaries


Sympathetically LOL ! Well,  my experience as a prog musician taught me that
75 is indeed quite satisfying !! I often played with Moriodor for less than
25 people... But we had a prog festival here in QC (featuring the Flower
Kings) a couple of years ago and it attracted close to 500 people every
night. I think we can call that a triumph !
DR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: JohnEric 
Subject: Re: gg: Pretentious

Apparently, Scott purchased the "Pretentious" album.  He knows the cover
art.
 
I wrote:

> >Subject: gg: Pretentious . . . the lot of you!

He replied:
> 
> Let me adjust this safety pin in my nose here.  HMmmNn.  There we go.

I wrote:
 
> >I now believe that the real prog fan ENJOYS and is thrilled by
> pretension ("Gone" can be that way).

And Scott said:
> 
> We just like to sit bolt upright in that straight-backed chair, button
> that top button, and listen to that relentless and impenetrable sound of
> difficult music.

I'm so glad you share my view.  Yes, bolt upright, one eyebrow raised, top
button buttoned, relaxed -- though soft -- tummy muscles, an ever ready
smile of bliss waiting to manifest itself, and, of course, a cup of
coffee.  Comfortably pretentious and suitably perked.

JEE
 
I enjoyed the following ~~~~~~~~~

> >>How old were you and what year was it when you 1st heard/bought GG?
>
> >I was 14 and it was about 8 months ago :)

Scott:
> 
> a precocious, pretentious girl!  We're so proud.  ;)



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:33:16 -0400
From: Tomas 
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House

At 11:12 PM 8/27/1999 -0400, dr wrote:

>Sympathetically LOL ! Well,  my experience as a prog musician taught me that
>75 is indeed quite satisfying !!

A number of years ago I heard about this band from Syracuse, NY - some of
you may know who I'm talking about - called Cold Sweat.  They were playing
in the town I was living in at the time, in a dump called Mothers.  I heard
they were a great prog band, so I went down to see them (not being one to
frequent the local bars, unless I was playing).

They were fabulous!  They started their set with a blistering "Heart of the
Sunrise", and didn't look back.  Odd thing was, I was one of about five
people in the "audience" the whole night (the place could have fit 50).
Between sets I struck up conversations with everyone in the band (except
the drummer, who was a bit standoffish).

They even dedicated a song to me!  Which was no big deal, since by that
time the tarbender and I were about the only ones there!  But, they didn't
slack off.  It was like a "Best of Prog" night: Yes, Gentle Giant (yes!),
Genesis, Tull, ELP: just for me. My head buzzed for weeks.

Not a respectable crowd for them (they never came back), but - I must say -
a very enthusiastic one!


***************************************************************************
* Tomas                      *  "Tolerance is the virtue of the man       *
* West Chazy, NY  USA        *   without convictions."  - GK Chesterton   *
* tomas@slic.com             *   		                          *
***************************************************************************
* Howie Web:       http://www.howies.org/                                 *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:42:28 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: DELIVERY - "Fool's Meeting" / Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"

hail;
re:


Bob Angilly wrote:

> If you didn't like "L" I'm afraid that's about as good as the Hillage solo
> albums get.  Fish Rising has some nice guitar work but Hillage was still too
> much in Daevid Allen's shadow to develop much as a songwriter.  Hillage's later
> work in System 7 is much better despite being in league with the evil forces of
> Thumpo.

Don't know anything about the system 7 stuff, but I have 2 solo albums that I
bought as a set, one titled And Not Or, and the other titled For To Next. One cover
was the reverse of the other, so my sense is that they were intended as a set. the
music is pure instrumental, and while I haven't listened to it for a long time, I
remember being much more impressed than I was with L, which I really enjoyed.
still,
dg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:48:31 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: Flecktones

hail;
re:


SSell71096@aol.com wrote:

> hail gigantes,
> lurkin' dave here.
> do you guys have recommendations for exploring the Flecktones - what to check
> out and what to avoid?

Haven't heard all of their catalog, but the ones I really like are the solo Tales
From the Acoustic Planet, UFO Tofu and Three flew Over the Cuckoo's nest.
Sidebar: Fleck is coming to a really lovely venue, the State theatre, in a couple
weeks. Hope I have the money to go!
still,
dg

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:44:18 +1200
From: "Keri Ford" 
Subject: gg: Pretentious Yes/GG

JohnEric Giant, Tull, Focus, Ekseption, Renaissance, , etc., most people to say
>things like "outrageous, outlandish, and pretentious".  I now believe that
>the real prog fan ENJOYS and is thrilled by pretension ("Gone" can be that
>way).  So that's it then ... be ye overjoyed by pretension!  Remember, GG
>released a double LP CALLED "Pretentious", which followed on the heals of
>"Giant Steps"

LOL. i think you're onto something here. However, the argument looks a bit
different if you consider Imagination and Pretention to be interchangeable
terms. To Imagine is to pretend, imagination is the aspect of pretense when
it is gets good press and imagination is pretense when it is gets bad press.
But really they're the same. So the music of Tull, GG. Yes is imaginative
and it wants to be as imaginative as possible.  This is what i look for in
any art, I don't care about tastefullness, I want over the top extreme
pretension. I also think that the idea of imagination being an escape from
reality is wrong, but that to fully explore the imagination is to get to the
heart of what it is to be human.

Keri

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:34:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: mammienun@webtv.net
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House

My group 'Slick Woody' had 65 at the door tonight. The only prog we play
is between sets! I just love forcing GG on unsuspecting Metallica fans!
Later, Ez

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:53:45 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: gg: Re: Re: GG <-> Yes

Ant was did wroting:
> As an
> engineer, I strive for excellence too, sometimes I might achieve it, that's
> not for me to say. I have to be away from my family for work, I have to work
> long and unsocial hours but wouldn't it be odd if me and hundreds of other
> hard working professionals got fame, adulation and riches for what we did
> professionally during a 10 year period and were able to retire at 35 or go
> on to earn more money in a career we love?

Thanks for reminding me why I dig this list!
v-b

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:47:54 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: Re: gg: Gier goes to GorGG

Ant spoked:
> I vaguely remember something about Geir's hand over at the beginning but I
> also remember that Malcolm did a poll of the people he collected from the
> newsgroups he trawled, myself included, that would decide what to call the
> list. Various GG song names were touted and On Reflection won the vote. Geir
> was on the list that I was on and that list was started by Malcolm. It must
> have been a coincidence that they both had the same name.

Or maybe all of the members on the "old" list voted for O-R and outnumbered you
newbies!  ;^)
The details should be filled out by Geir and Malcolm -- if necessary at all. They
both deserve the honour they can get, I'm sure.
v-b

------------------------------

End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1837
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