Subj: on-reflection-digest V1 #1838
Date: 8/29/99 6:03:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time
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on-reflection-digest Sunday, August 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1838
Re: gg: Pretentious Yes/GG
gg: Re: BOC
gg: Major response..
gg: Bruno, Champion Birdwatchers, Maddy Prior
Re: gg: Mammiepoll....and Pat
Re: gg: RE: GG<->YES
Re: gg: Major response..
gg: Re: New Mammiepoll
gg: Re: Re: New Mammiepoll
gg: Re: Free Hand on One Way
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
Re: gg: Mammiepoll
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: JohnEric
Subject: Re: gg: Pretentious Yes/GG
Keri wrote:
<
imaginative
and it wants to be as imaginative as possible. This is what i look for in
any art, I don't care about tastefullness, I want over the top extreme
pretension. I also think that the idea of imagination being an escape from
reality is wrong, but that to fully explore the imagination is to get to
the heart of what it is to be human.>>
This is so right on the money, it left me breathing hard. I recalled
memories of my youth, with artist pallet in hand ... while listening to
all of that imaginative vinyl. It all came flooding back to me as I read
Keri's observation. wonderful!
JEE
- --- Keri Ford wrote:
>
> JohnEric
> . On the other hand, Gentle
> >Giant, Tull, Focus, Ekseption, Renaissance, , etc., most people to say
> >things like "outrageous, outlandish, and pretentious". I now believe
> that
> >the real prog fan ENJOYS and is thrilled by pretension ("Gone" can be
> that
> >way). So that's it then ... be ye overjoyed by pretension! Remember,
> GG
> >released a double LP CALLED "Pretentious", which followed on the heals
> of
> >"Giant Steps"
>
> LOL. i think you're onto something here. However, the argument looks a
> bit
> different if you consider Imagination and Pretention to be
> interchangeable
> terms. To Imagine is to pretend, imagination is the aspect of pretense
> when
> it is gets good press and imagination is pretense when it is gets bad
> press.
> But really they're the same. So the music of Tull, GG. Yes is
> imaginative
> and it wants to be as imaginative as possible. This is what i look for
> in
> any art, I don't care about tastefullness, I want over the top extreme
> pretension. I also think that the idea of imagination being an escape
> from
> reality is wrong, but that to fully explore the imagination is to get to
> the
> heart of what it is to be human.
>
> Keri
>
>
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: JohnEric
Subject: gg: Re: BOC
Shirley, you jest! Blue Oyster Cult's new release Heaven Forbid is a
great comeback. It made up for all of those overly keyboard dependent
years. I prefer then with a heavy emphasis on heavy/eerie guitar.
JEE
- --- SSell71096@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << np BOC, Heaven Forbid >>
>
> Hey boys,
> what's BOC?
>
> tia,
> dave
>
__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: mammienun@webtv.net
Subject: gg: Major response..
Wow...I never got this kind of return on the original 'mammiepoll'.
Don't stop, keep those mini GG bio's coming. I want to get an idea of
the average OR profile. Does this make any sense at all? Hey...what do
you want from a, Ez
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:37:04 EDT
From: "Virginia Landgraf"
Subject: gg: Bruno, Champion Birdwatchers, Maddy Prior
Delurking with some things in my CD player this week:
BRUNO – _Caper Diem_ [sic] – Gargoyle Records, 1999.
Bruno (more often called “The Brunos,” although the band is referred to in
the singular on the album cover) is a group of musicians from the
California-based Pipe and Bowl Morris team. I’ve washed dishes with these
guys. They’re a lot of fun. It was the Brunos whom I was watching at 1 in
the morning at Lark camp when I had this wonderful vision of my professors
at PTS jumping up and banging at each other with sticks. “If I could sum up
the Brunos in two words, they would be: Living Tradition and Free Beer. OK,
take your pick,” reads the album blurb, and it escalates from there. “Seize
the Beer” is their “translation” of the album title. Of their version of
the pre-1979 Afghanistani national anthem, they write: “We learned this tune
in honor of Bruno Jason, who is of Armenian descent. We discovered our
mistake too late.” The anthem is in 7/4, as is another tune on this disc.
Plus there are originals and a waltz in 5/4 (a waltz in 5/4? Yes, if you
live in Alsace), and some of the traditional tunes have pretty wacky
harmonies (though there are also several four-square two-chord morris tunes
that sound fairly straight – but not sober). I wish I could tell you
definitively how to get ahold of this album (I got it directly from the
band), but you will have fun looking at this site pending more specific
instructions which will probably eventually appear there:
http://www.geocities.com/~brunotim/
(sometimes the background comes up slowly, so the names of the links may be
hard to read). This is mandolinist “Bruno” Tim Meighan’s home page. You
can click on links to read about the history of the Brunos, hear MIDI files
(many of the tunes which turn up on the album are there, with Tim’s
off-the-wall liner notes), and read an announcement of their CD release
party which happened in July. E-mail him at brunotim@brunotim.com and ask
him how to buy the album.
CHAMPION BIRDWATCHERS, _the inconsolable longing_ (Redshift Recordings,
1998). Imagine if prog had evolved from the “alternative” rock of c. 1991
rather than the psychedelic rock of c. 1968 – it would sound different, but
there would be certain commonalities. champion birdwatchers are an Idaho
quintet who augment the basic guitar-bass-drums rock instrumentation with
cello and occasional flute, and the drummer uses things in addition to the
basic drumkit. At moments the texture is reminiscent of mid-70's King
Crimson (the guitar-cello textures bringing to mind Fripp & Cross on guitar
& violin), and then there’s a hint of Gabriel & Hackett – but only a hint,
because more prominent than Gabriel in the vocals is the early-90's sound of
Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain (and Wetton is a more appropriate 70's
comparison most of the time than Gabriel). But it is the subdued side of
the 90's rockers which predominates, because the disc is very introspective,
sounding like something eavesdropped upon in a living room rather than a
self-conscious performance. Compositionally, their songs tend to remain
centered around a tonic (which they even indicate in the titles of the
songs), but they don’t use a lot of typical chord progressions from
18th-century European classical music or any folk mode known to me –
sometimes they’ll be droning around the tonic plus its minor subdominant
plus a few other less conventional chords, for example. It’s not
expressionistic, wild improvisation, nor is it what is usually called
“minimalism” in classical music circles, although one could say that it
sounds minimalistic next to the 70's KC. Maybe this is what people call
“post-rock” – sort of like the Minutemen strung out at 16 2/3 rpm? Stark
and confessional -- lyrically and theologically, the band has been heavily
influenced by C.S. Lewis, and the surrealistic overlays of watercolors,
Lewis quotes, and psalm fragments on the cover art add a dimension to the
album (although not conveying the starkness of the music before you hear
it). For more info, click on
http://www.redshiftrecordings.com/birdwatchers.htm or
http://www.mp3.com/artists/12/champion_birdwatchers.html .
MADDY PRIOR AND THE CARNIVAL BAND – _Sing Lustily and with Good Courage_
(Saydisc, 1990). The then lead singer of Steeleye Span joins with a
rollicking dance band that’s equally at home playing classical chamber music
for an inspiring set of 18th-century and early 19th-century hymns,
originally commissioned by the BBC for an anniversary honoring John and
Charles Wesley. “And Can It Be?”, “O for a Thousand Tongues to Sing,” and
other Wesley texts are done to fuguing tunes that many hymnal editors shun
today as being too difficult. But the CD has gone beyond the original focus
on the Wesleys to include hymns from other writers familiar to their
context. The modal variety is such that you have to wonder – would they
really have sung _all_ these hymns back-to-back “back then”? Despite the
comment in the liner notes that musicians in the gallery bands of the time
were as familiar with Handel as with folk tunes, my suspicion is that the
arrangements have been done to heighten the contrasts between compositional
styles. Thus there are starkly pentatonic renditions of “How Firm a
Foundation” and “Light of the World” (to an American tune called “Hull”),
contrasting well with the chromaticism of “The God of Abraham Praise” (whose
tune is credited as being of Jewish origin in most contemporary hymnals, but
not here) and James Ellor’s 19th-century tune “Diadem” (sung to “All Hail
the Pow’r of Jesus’ Name”). It’s interesting that the most pentatonic tunes
are from outlying regions (Celtic & American) while the more chromatic tunes
are from areas that had more interaction with central Europe. The stirring
“Who Would True Valour See” is (anachronistically) done to a Vaughan
Williams version of a folk tune, which gets an irregular time-signature
sound out of a 9+7 combination. Musicological queries aside, this is a
wonderful performance, and the moving bass on many of the tunes makes them
positively swing compared with the organ playing & slow singing in many
congregations. There’s one wonderfully bouncy instrumental, innocently
enough titled “The Twenty-ninth of May or the Jovial Beggars,” which turns
out to be the hymn tune for “All Things Bright and Beautiful!” I can just
imagine some production director using this as the bed for a commercial for
a pet supply store.
Ginny
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:04:24 -0400
From: Patrick Connor
Subject: Re: gg: Mammiepoll....and Pat
><< np: Seldon's Inquisitor -- what, you've never heard of my band? :-)
> Patrick Connor >>
>
>Hi Pat! Interesting band name!!! What "genre" does your band fall under?
Seldon's Inquisitor (me, a friend, and digital recording equipment)
prouldly classify ourselves as prog. My guitar playing has a firm
rock base (Jimmy Page my earliest hero) but our songs mix it up with
keys, fun time sigs, and lyrics ranging from cosmic to witty. We've even
incorporated some "swirling mellotron" on our latest stuff. (Okay, so it's
not a real mellotron, but the folks at Roland made a killer"mello strings"
patch that sounds pretty convincing.)
Though we've made several tapes already, we're just finishing up
what will be our first foray into cd format. I'm considering turning some
tunes in mp3 format so I can post them. I'll certainly keep this list
updated,
as I would value the feedback from people who know music (which this list
seems to be chalk full of...)
Pat Connor
Patrick Connor pconnor@ici.net
"There is nothing more seductive for man than the freedom of his
conscience, but there is nothing more tormenting for him, either."
--The Grand Inquisitor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:11:49 -0400
From: Patrick Connor
Subject: Re: gg: RE: GG<->YES
James Warren wrote:
> Once again, while listening to the vocals on track 1 of AtT, I
>got the feeling that this was very Yes influenced. Does anyone else
>make a Yes association with the opening minute or so of "Pantagruel's
>Nativity"?... esp. Kerry's vocals here?
The mellotron made a Yes connection for me (think of
Wakeman's playing in TFTO). The melody and chord changes,
however, seemed very dissonant and eerie to me... unlike Anderson's
melodies which were often quite immediately catchy. Of course,
I love Pantagruel now *because* of the eeriness.
Pat Connor
Patrick Connor pconnor@ici.net
"There is nothing more seductive for man than the freedom of his
conscience, but there is nothing more tormenting for him, either."
--The Grand Inquisitor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:09:43 -0400
From: Bob Angilly
Subject: Re: gg: Major response..
Got my first GG album "Acquiring the Taste" when it first came out in the
early '70's. Liked some of the songs but what not overwhelmingly
impressed by the album. Became more interested when I got Free Hand and
Playing the Fool and finally got a chance to see them (as the main act)
and then it all made sense.
mammienun@webtv.net wrote:
> Wow...I never got this kind of return on the original 'mammiepoll'.
> Don't stop, keep those mini GG bio's coming. I want to get an idea of
> the average OR profile. Does this make any sense at all? Hey...what do
> you want from a, Ez
- --
Tickle me! :-)
Elmo
__ __
.' '.' `.
_.-| o | o |-._
.~ `.__.'.__.'^ ~.
.~ ^ / \ ^ ~.
\-._^ ^| | ^_.-/
`\ `-._ \___/ ^_.-' /'
`\_ `--...--' /'
`-.._______..-' /\ /\
__/ \__ | |/ /_
.'^ ^ `. .' `__\
.' ^ ^ `.__.'^ .\ \
.' ^ . ^ . ^ .' \/
/ / ^ \'.__.'
| ^ /| ^ |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:49:06 -0500
From: Jim Klocek
Subject: gg: Re: New Mammiepoll
> This discussion got me thinking. It's time for another
> mammiepoll! When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? Did
Did, did, did and did!
My first time was in the bedroom upstairs at....oops, wrong first time.
GG opened for Jethro Tull during the War Child tour back in '74 at the
Spectrum in Philadelphia. We didn't even know GG was on the bill til we got
there. Usually, the middle of the first act is where the combustibles
start coming out getting ready for the main act, but after the first few
songs we realized this was going to be great and started in, just in time
for the Percussion Bash. I was hooked, and while Tull was great
we kept wanting GG to come back out!
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:19:03 -0500
From: "Phil Bradley"
Subject: gg: Re: Re: New Mammiepoll
> GG opened for Jethro Tull during the War Child tour back in '74 at the
> Spectrum in Philadelphia. We didn't even know GG was on the bill til we
got
> there. Usually, the middle of the first act is where the combustibles
> start coming out getting ready for the main act, but after the first few
> songs we realized this was going to be great and started in, just in time
> for the Percussion Bash. I was hooked, and while Tull was great
> we kept wanting GG to come back out!
Jim,
That was my first exposure to GG, also. Caught that tour in Jackson,
Mississippi.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:26:30 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn"
Subject: gg: Re: Free Hand on One Way
G'day maids!
Carsten was do writed:
> 1) the "mispress" Free Hand CD: I know that this topic has been dealt with
> before, but as I only got my copy today, let me add a few thoughts to the
> discussion. I think that this is by no means a totally different master tape,
> but simply a different (or early and then rejected) mix. The only real
> difference I was able to discover was the partially missing guitar on Free
Hand.
Well, there are quite some differences, really. Sorry, no time to find out, but I
do seem to remember the drums entering earlier somewhere, another person singing
a part, different instrumentation in an instrumental section (in OR maybe?)...
But we should indeed not call it a totally different one. Happily, no-one has
done that either, AFAIK.
> Does anybody have the DEFINITVE story on the history?
I've never seen a definitive story. I'd be interested to read it.
> And this is where I disagree with MANY members of the list who said
> that the "mispress" was absolutely inferior in sound. I have to say that it is
> absolutely superior to the regular One Way release (I'm not taking into account
> other Free Hand releases, as everybody works differently with the tapes). The
> regular release is muddy, while the "mispress" sounds as crisp as anything. I
> much prefer it to the regular One Way release. Discuss!
There is really not too much to discuss, my dear friend. You got the CDs and the
comments mixed up. Maybe you've been misled by one other O-Rer who got it wrong.
And maybe even by me, when I used the word "usual" twice in one entry, but with
different meanings, and for describing different aspects. Mea Culpa on that one.
(I should have been better in English! ;^)
But it's easy:
The first One Way release sounded awful, but with identical mix to the LP people
had, and it included the drum break at the end.
The second One Way release sounds way better, but has these different mix things,
and lacks the drum break at the end.
I don't know if we should talk about a 3rd, 4th... release, but I do get the
impression some differences on the covers depend on country of origin being
Canada or US. This is just a vague impression though, and may not be supported by
facts.
First One Way release:
Regular mix, terrible sound. Inner rim code:
AM6/CDL-57338
Second (or higher?) One Way release(s):
Alternative mix, good sound. Inner rim code either:
ESK1<010>CDL57338
or I 1-1-5 EMI JAX 57338 (first character is a capital i )
or I 1-1-2 EMI JAX 57338
or I 1-1-4 EMI JAX 57338
A date and a square probably occur on all of the last 3. Example: 01[square]94.
The first 3 of these 4 sound roughly equal. Haven't heard the 1-1-4.
For more info about this, you could try and check the GG site. The inner rim
codes on the site were probably misread by those who sent info to Dan, but this
doesn't affect the story.
c-ya,
v-b
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:47:31 EDT
From: NoMorePhil@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
In a message dated 8/28/99 3:39:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mammienun@webtv.net writes:
> My group 'Slick Woody' had 65 at the door tonight. The only prog we play
> is between sets! I just love forcing GG on unsuspecting Metallica fans!
> Later, Ez
MammieNone, give me an update on gigs in the near future. I want to get up
and do 'Livin' La Vida Loca' with you guys.....
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:16:59 -0400
From: "him, her and the dog"
Subject: Re: gg: In A Quebecois Glass House
At 09:47 PM 08/28/1999 EDT, NoMorePhil@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 8/28/99 3:39:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>mammienun@webtv.net writes:
>
>> My group 'Slick Woody' had 65 at the door tonight. The only prog we play
>> is between sets! I just love forcing GG on unsuspecting Metallica fans!
>> Later, Ez
>MammieNone, give me an update on gigs in the near future. I want to get up
>and do 'Livin' La Vida Loca' with you guys.....
>Marc
>
Marc,
And you have just the kickin' body that can handle all the moves. I
want video of that...I think the resale through streaming video could just
about finance my retirement ;)
osMOOSEis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:45:37 -0400
From: "John Jakob"
Subject: Re: gg: Mammiepoll
Hail!
Hey look at me! Replying to a mammiepoll!
> This discussion got me thinking. It's time for another mammiepoll! When
> you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately?
Yes. Right from the first album. At the time, my friends and I were
playing in a basement band and were into British blues big time (John
Mayall, Blodwyn Pig, Fleetwood Mac, Savoy Brown, etc.), so the first GG
album fit our ears with its more straightforward rock edge.
>Did you run out and start buying their albums, or did some time go by
before you began to
> appreciate them?
Yes, as soon as. They were getting radio play in Toronto at the time. The
only album I didn't get as soon as it came out was Civilian, because I
didn't know it was out, but I was pleasantly surprised to find it in a
cut-out bin.
>How old were you and what year was it when you 1st heard/bought GG?
15 in 1970
John
------------------------------
End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1838
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