on-reflection-digest Tuesday, August 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1840 Re: gg: its a boy! Re: gg: MELLOW CANDLE Re: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes Re: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes gg: Mammiepoll/Introduction gg: Re: Re: GG --- Yes gg: Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" gg: Re: Intro-Poll (or Mammie Duction?) gg: Hi Adrianne; the Jackass Party; Jellyfish "Bellybutton" gg: What I want from an e-wiz; wrong first time gg: More GG fans arrive gg: When mammie speaks... Re: gg: Re: Re: GG --- Yes Re: gg: Re: Intro-Poll (or Mammie Duction?) gg: mammiepoll gg: Re: Mammiepoll/Introduction Re: gg: Free Hand and CD review Re: gg: Mammiepoll/Introduction Re: gg: mammiepoll Re: nongg: Uncle Frank gg: Progressive Rock in the Late 90's gg: My first time gg: Re: percussions? (or Ima Dan Sing Fool!) gg: Put on those eggs and hammy, Mammie! (or Thanx for Cattle, I Sing!) gg: Quotation gg: Quotation # 2 RE: Fwd: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:19:28 -0400 From: Tatsurou Ueda Subject: Re: gg: its a boy! Dave Sr.mature student wrote: >Hi All, my grandson Robert David Astley arrived last night weighing in at >9lbs 3oz,everyone doing fine...he's number 6! Congratulations! Another giant for a day! (... is he still in a glass house? :-)) Tatsurou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:35:06 -0400 From: Tatsurou Ueda Subject: Re: gg: MELLOW CANDLE Hi, all. Tom C. wrote: >Has anyone gotten a chance to hear the group called "Mellow Candle"? I picked >up their CD called "Swaddling Songs" and i thought it was a pretty good piece >of work. The two female vocalists have voices that remind me of Annie Haslam >but not quite as good but they have a good sound and i would definately put >them in the progressive catagory. It's a very nice album indeed. A trad/folk album with a definite prog leaning. They say it has been long unavailable untill the CD reissue came out recently and during the 80's the original LPs collected hundreds of dollars. The high point of the album may be Clodagh Simonds' vocals, which are sure to remind many of us her performance on Mike Oldfield's "Hergest Ridge" etc. Tatsurou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:55:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "David J. Loftus" Subject: Re: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEF087.EE21E9A0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Frank B. Carvalho wrote: > >GG fans as well. This is a question for the Yes fans on the list, I > >suppose, but what is it that is missing in GG albums, that leaves so > >many unimpressed? > > This is a good question. Let me attempt an answer. > > Yes has something else. Grandeur, big symphonic arrangements, drama, > pomp. Like Genesis. 'High vibration go on...'. That is something many > Yes, Genesis and ELP fans probably miss in GG. It is probably also the > reason why the others made it big and GG didn't. GG was a chamber > quintet, Yes was a symphony orchestra. I can mention only a few > moments of symphonic excess in GGs music. One is the last wonderful > minutes of side one of IaGH, but it still does not come anywhere near > the first ten minutes of Tales from Topographic Oceans. This is a nice start on the question. The orchestra/chamber quintet analogy has something to it, despite the fact that -- during their early peak periods -- the bands had the same number of bodies. If we're talking about prog fans primarily -- people who loved ELP and Yes but were not hooked by GG -- I think the analogy helps in that the "symphonic" approach of the other bands conveys a sense of power, vast geographic distances, stirring anthems, that sort of thing. Not that there are no ballads on ELP and Yes albums, but they tend to be few and far between. GG could be much more intimate (without getting into that vague, feel-good new agey lyricism of Mr. Anderson that most fans probably just ignored). Other folks have occasionally talked about rock music as being all about sex, or masturbation ... but I think the heart of rock is power -- volume of sound and (during live shows) light. That's why it appeals to adolescents, a fairly powerless group -- listeners can feel plugged into something much bigger and louder than themselves, a lone guitarist can smash windows, fill a club or a stadium with sound and drive thousands crazy. To some extent, ELP and Yes played up to this, in all their richness and relative complexity (and believe me, I loved 'em both before I got into GG at the ripe old age of 17!). I think for many prog fans (as well as plain old rock 'n' roll fans!), the question "what was missing" is the wrong one, because the problem was not anything missing (other than that vast, anthemic sweep of something like "Heart of the Sunrise" or "Karn Evil 9") but that there was TOO MUCH - -- too many styles, too many moods, too many different kinds of music for the average fan to assimilate. I mean, suppose the first five GG tunes you heard were, say: "Peel the Paint," "Inmate's Lullabye," "Raconteur Troubadour," "Knots," and "Funny Ways." Can you think of any of these tunes being characteristic of the GG sound the way "Roundabout" is dead-on Yes? They're ALL characteristic of GG!!! The band did just about anything just as well as anything else, and I think it may have been difficult for the average fan -- even the average prog fan -- to settle in with a band that would not settle in, itself. David Loftus - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEF087.EE21E9A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:02:16 EDT From: NoMorePhil@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes In a message dated 8/30/99 11:56:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dloft@netcom.com writes: << I mean, suppose the first five GG tunes you heard were, say: "Peel the Paint," "Inmate's Lullabye," "Raconteur Troubadour," "Knots," and "Funny Ways." Can you think of any of these tunes being characteristic of the GG sound the way "Roundabout" is dead-on Yes? They're ALL characteristic of GG!!! The band did just about anything just as well as anything else, and I think it may have been difficult for the average fan -- even the average prog fan -- to settle in with a band that would not settle in, itself. David Loftus >> Here, here David very nicely put. This should be on a T-Shirt or something Although it have to be a XXL or larger. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:55:11 +0200 From: "Frode Ringstad" Subject: gg: Mammiepoll/Introduction Hail, Giants! I've been lurking on this list for a while, but I think I'll use Mammiepoll as an appropriate opportunity for a brief introduction. My name is Frode and I live in Oslo, Norway. I'm a subsciber on other lists as well, but I must say NONE is like On-Reflection. I'm really impressed by the knowledge and humour this list reveals. I am myself no scholar in music, and I don't play any instruments, but I hope I can contribute a little bit now and then nevertheless. Besides Gentle Giant, I'm also well familiar with Yes, Genesis, Camel, Santana, XTC King Crimson, Beatles, Jethro Tull among others. Big surprise! And now for the Mammiepoll: I first heard Gentle Giant in '77, sixteen years old. A friend of my older sister had hundreds of records, and two of them were Gentle Giant and In a Glass House. It was the cover of the first album that drew my attention, and when I put it on I was instantly hooked. At that time however, the GG albums were very hard to find here in Norway, and I didn't earn much money. Therefore it was more than two years later that I could got my first two albums: Gentle Giant and Three Friends. For many months I almost exclusively listened to these albums, and I remember my mother nearly started climbing the walls in distress. In the eighties however, I must admit I just forgot about Gentle Giant, and it was only about four years ago I rediscovered them when I found them on CD. Except for In a Glass House, I now have all the first albums including Interview on CD, and every single one of them I have enjoyed from the very first listen. I really hope Polygram will release In a Glass House soon. I don't have much trust in them though, bacause they also promised to release Consequences by Godley & Creme, but after one delay after another, they finally decided to cancel this without any explanation. Well, I guess this is enough spam for now. Frode ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:57:28 +0100 From: "Ant" Subject: gg: Re: Re: GG --- Yes - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Weese > Witness the rise of witless gits like Chumbambwa, a Brit >band who signed with a German label and achieved success in the USA. Don't know much about Chumbawumba except they've been going for years and were on their 8th otr 9th album when they got some notice. I think thay may have changed their style to get noticed. >I do wish GG would re-form and tour again, if only to show up all these >poseurs and sellouts. You've got to have a large amount of that sort of artist. It wouldn't work if every band was as creative and talented as GG. > Jewelers know this, >software types know this, every retailer on the planet knows that the >package is what the customer sees first, not the excellence of its contents. Well that might make you buy one album but you wouldn't be making that mistake again would you? if you didn't actually like the music. > GG, even today, with one tour, could reach a new generation of kids in >search of excellence, but without a video on MTV, they wouldn't sell well >enough to make it worth the trouble. GG thrashed about in search of a new >sound for their last few efforts: but IMHO it wasn't a sound they lacked, >it was some marketing shite who could get them into heavy rotation they >lacked. I just don't see it. They have a limited appeal because only a limited number of people can hear what amazing stuff is going on here. That gloss may have helped a bit but not a lot. Ant ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:00:53 +0100 From: "Ant" Subject: gg: Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising" - -----Original Message----- From: SPBrader@aol.com >The Regmeister asks: > ><< Also, should I buy Steve Hillage's "Fish Rising"? I had Hillage's "L" and > didn't care for it much. Is "Fish Rising" a piece of crap or does it deserve > all the praise? Please let me know >> > >I had it, sold it. It never really 'took off' in the way I was expecting from >his work with Khan and Gong. A tad too noodly for moi. Have to say I love Fish Rising. While 'L' is a collection of pop songs, psyched up. FR is a psychedelic masterpiece IMO. Ant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:44:20 -0500 From: DE Johnson Subject: gg: Re: Intro-Poll (or Mammie Duction?) "Frode Ringstad" wrote: >Hail, Giants! Hail and Welcome, Frode! >...For many months I almost exclusively listened to these albums, and >I remember my mother nearly started climbing the walls in distress. (C)I think my parents would have reacted in the same way had I not been (i)CRANKING Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and other 'caterwallen' as they (V)called it then. I even lost a girlfriend due to musical differences (i)in taste. Well, more than one actually (so now I'm married to a woman (L)I dearly love and she puts up with ALMOST anything I listen to. I should (i)add that her fav style is country. What a couple of physicians! Z, Luto, (A)and country all-at-the-same-time-and-simultaneously...GILLIGAN!!... (N)...yes, little buddy?). DJ/CiViLiAN/le Uncroyable M. Personne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:44:47 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: Hi Adrianne; the Jackass Party; Jellyfish "Bellybutton" >Okay, I'll unlurk for this one... We are glad you did Adrianne. >I was 22 when I discovered GG (long ago in Nov 98 ;). A coworker of mine is a prog fan, and GG is his favorite band. I hadn't heard any prog other than Rush and Tull, so he offered to make me a tape. That's the kind of evangelism we can all do. Let this tape-maker be an example to us all. ;) >I've slowly been getting the others, but I'm now so overwhelmed with new music that I can't keep up. So, which ones do you already have, and which ones are next? >You'd rather he run for the Jackass Party of whiners, liars, and the "do it for the childern" manipulators? This kind of namecalling isn't productive in any way shape or form. >:-) Even with the little smily afterward. >Forgot to mention that I picked up two Jellyfish/"Bellybutton" CDs the other day; anybody need one? I already have one, and I think everyone else should too. >It was like a "Best of Prog" night: Yes, Gentle Giant (yes!), Genesis, Tull, ELP: just for me. My head buzzed for weeks. Which GG song did they play? - S. np: Firesign, Bozos (a fair for all, and no fair to anybody!) scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:07:26 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: What I want from an e-wiz; wrong first time >Hey...what do you want from a, Ez A baby's arm, holding The Big Apple. >My first time was in the bedroom upstairs at....oops, wrong first time. Show the colour of your crimson suspenders . . . - S. np: Radiohead (thanks Mediohead) scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:25:46 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: More GG fans arrive >Hi All, my grandson Robert David Astley arrived last night weighing in at 9lbs 3oz,everyone doing fine...he's number 6! Congratulations Dave! Robt David Astley - nice handle. - S. np: Praxis, Transmutation scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: mammienun@webtv.net Subject: gg: When mammie speaks... people listen. I'm on my way to the NYS Fair w/Jeff Beck on tap for tonight. Review tomorrow. Thanks to everyone ('specially the lurkers) responding to the new 'mammiepoll'....keep those stories coming. I'll be getting back to some of you personally if I need more info to fill in the blanks. Okilly dokilly, Ez ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:00:14 PDT From: "Dan Weese" Subject: Re: gg: Re: Re: GG --- Yes Ant observes: Well, marketing prog has always been tough, imho. Prog doesn't fit neatly in the rack as "Rock", since so little of it is blues-derived, particularly GG. Complex tempi and arrangements, though amazing, don't sell really widely, I'll give you that. Perhaps one thing MP3.com and Internet Radio have done is open some of the doors the marketing gits have kept closed for some time. Some reporter once said to Frank Zappa: "This is a personal thing, I think that if you wanted to make top ten hits and sell millions of records, you could. Zappa repliez: "Yeah, but who wants to go through life with a tiny nose and one glove on? I was writing all kinds of positive and negative canons and weird inverted this and retrograde that and getting as spaced-out mathematically as I could and I was going "Wait a minute! Who cares about that stuff?" I had always liked rhythm and blues so here I was stuck between the slide rule and the gut bucket somewhere and I decided that I would opt for a third road someplace in between." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:26:49 EDT From: NoMorePhil@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: Re: Intro-Poll (or Mammie Duction?) In a message dated 8/30/99 12:45:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, civilian@ice.net writes: << Well, more than one actually (so now I'm married to a woman (L)I dearly love and she puts up with ALMOST anything I listen to. I should (i)add that her fav style is country. What a couple of physicians! Z, Luto, (A)and country all-at-the-same-time-and-simultaneously...GILLIGAN!!... (N)...yes, little buddy?). DJ/CiViLiAN/le Uncroyable M. Personne >> Time to pull out my old and trusted retort when it comes to country music: Them: Do you like country music? Me: I love country music, just not THIS country. From America Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:29:36 -0400 From: Bert Rubini Subject: gg: mammiepoll Hi all: I've dropped to lurker status over the last couple of months, but (I think) I'm back now. my response to the mammiepoll: > >When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? > Well, I've told the story before, guess it's time to tell it again..... I received an audio tape from my bass teacher when I was about 14, with GG "The Power and the Glory" on one side and KC "Lark's Tongue in Aspic" on the other. Talk about a life-changing experience! (At the time, I was listening mostly to Kiss, Ted Nugent, Heart, etc -- he gave me the tape to "educate" me -- I guess it worked???). A short time later, I was the proud owner of "TPatG" on vinyl. Still one of my favorites. > >Did you run out and start buying their albums, or did some time > >go by before you began to appreciate them? > I got hooked pretty much immediately. I had all the albums in a short time (Interview was the newest at the time, I think). > >How old were you and what year was it when you 1st heard/bought GG? > Like I said, I was 14, maybe 15. This would have been 1977 or 1978. I feel compelled to mention that the guy who first introduced me to GG was later my best man at my wedding. Coincidence? bert - -- My homepage - now updated with even more boring photos and mindless tedium!: http://www.hcc.cc.fl.us/services/faculty/bertrubini/home.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:02:04 +0200 From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" Subject: gg: Re: Mammiepoll/Introduction Hei Frode, Velkommen til O-R! Håper du vil like den! Det er en fin liste. (above I explained Frooda what kinda list this is, and also that in the course of a discussion, every joke will be answered seriously and every serious remark will result in a joke. Oh jeah, and inbetween the lines, I found some space to introduce him to some of the characters on the list. And I've taken the liberty of asking him to join Gorgg in NYC on October 9th. Yep. Was that OK? ;^) c-ya, bert np: Esther Ofarim: "Esther Ofarim" - 2CD version. Yep, the one with Aspiration(s). Thanks, Eli, for the tip. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:34:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Barrett Subject: Re: gg: Free Hand and CD review On August 28, 1999, casglatze wrote: >1) the "mispress" Free Hand CD: ... I think that this is by no means a >totally different master tape, but simply a different (or early and then >rejected) mix. The only real difference I was able to discover was the >partially missing guitar on Free Hand. Well, Derek sings some parts in "Time To Kill" that were sung by Kerry on the original release. >...I disagree with MANY members of the list who said that the "mispress" >was absolutely inferior in sound. I have to say that it is absolutely >superior to the regular One Way release... You are right, it is superior to the original One Way. Nevertheless, the Terrapin Trucking release is much, much better. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett Creator, The Gentle Giant Web Site | | dbarrett@blazemonger.com http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/ | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:02:04 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: Mammiepoll/Introduction In a message dated 8/30/99 10:17:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time, frod-ri@online.no writes: << I've been lurking on this list for a while, >> Well, Frode, thanks for joining in, and welcome! Don't be a stranger, OK? Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:46:56 EDT From: WhytePunk@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: mammiepoll > >When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? Or, when you first heard of the mammiepoll, did you respond to IT immediately??? Well, since you've asked... ...Ok, I waited a while to reply to this, for no other reason except laziness and internet burnout. YES, I liked them the first time I heard them, and I don't remember the year, but I was in my car so perhaps it was as late as 1978. I believe I listened to "Nothing At All" on the radio and it must have been on one of those prog shows starring the eclectic DJ with the deeply profound voice. I was probably a little drunk and little high and more than likely had just dropped off my girlfriend so I could do some real partying. Anyway, I can remember the song moving from that melodic prog/prelude (that's what this old rocker 'll call it!) into a real jam and I was blown away! I also was probably getting "blown away" or had become chemically imbalanced, and you know how those DJ's on some radio stations are, one is lucky to even get the name of the band let alone what album the track is from. I do remember him saying "Gentle Giant" though, and I remember thinking "so that's what GG sounds like!" But for some strange reason I didn't go right out and immediately buy anything by Gentle Giant. Go figure... ...a few years later I did buy "Octopus" and I thought Advent of Panurge was the one of the coolest and somewhat disturbing songs that I had heard. I started buying everything I could find by GG from that day on, with a few breaks in-between to actually start living a real life! I'll never forget the wonderful journeys that GG helped me along on in my room alone with all of my "friends"! ; ) Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:56:47 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nongg: Uncle Frank In a message dated 8/30/99 12:08:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, danweese@hotmail.com writes: << Zappa repliez: "Yeah, but who wants to go through life with a tiny nose and one glove on? >> I really miss Frank. The world is a much diminished planet without him. Sorry to horn in on your thread, but he was right. Who (besides us "wise guys") cares about all that stuff. So it's some Fresian whatever played backward with the accent on the prime numbers. But does it sound good? Does it make your synapses snap together? Do you want more? The problem with today's music is the same one plaguing manufacturing. It's planned obsolescence. They want you to like it for a week and then go buy something else. Apparently, it's working! Back to the subject, I liked Yes BECAUSE of the pseudo-symphonic bombast. But I LOVE GG because these were guys who were so confident in their abilities and in their music that they just PLAYED! Nuff said. Dan (oh hell, most of you know my real name anyway...) n.d. Bavaria n.p. Pirates/Rockies n.c.(celebrating) the Broncos announcement of a new QB! Byebye Bubby! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:14:33 EDT From: GLENNLILJE@aol.com Subject: gg: Progressive Rock in the Late 90's I've been readind all my On Reflection postings, but I haven't sent anything in a while. It's dawned on me recently thata lot of progressive music, as well as ant type of music, has a very personal appeal to different people for different reasons. Namely, it appeals to everyone on a sentimental level, obviously more so when it has some age to it. Gentle Giant, for me, has stayed far beyond their time, and they have proved it with the test of time. Free Hand is still somewhere in the next millenium, and yet "His Last Voyage" is still somewhere around 150 years ago! I was driving around yesterday listening to one of my GG tapes that I have labeled different silly titles like "Smash Hits", and "More Smash Hits", and "Dance Music Volume I", etc. I was listening to "Mister Class & Quality?", and I must say that the mikeyboard/guitar break still knocks my socks off. The guitar breaks are one amazing chop after another. I always loved the blues riffs mixed with the prog recipe of GG. The G.G.G.G.G.G.G.G. couldn't have been executed any better. (Great Gentle Giant Guitarist Gary Green's Grunty Growl!) I would love to see some studio recording film of these guys. "Interview" must have been lip-synched and not the original as it is promoted as. Glenn from Tustin (City of the giant giant) Van Der Graaf Generator "GodBluff Live" video (whole album...awesome!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:27:51 -0500 From: Steve and Terry Lottich Subject: gg: My first time Well, OK, here's my GG story, with apologies to those who have heard parts of the story before, probably several times. Hopefully, the mammiepoll answers can be found somewhere within. (Warning: This is a long, rambling and frequently boring tale, so you are advised to skip it.) During my 1st year of college, 73-74, so I would have been 17 or 18 (probably 18), I was first exposed to GG by this guy who lived across the hall from me in my dorm, named Spencer something. No, the dorm was not named Spencer, the guy was. The dorm was named Quadrangle ("Quad" to its friends). Or was that my roommate? So anyway this guy Quad who lived in Spencer the Dorm across the hall named Monty (Monty Hall HAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!) played something off Octopus for me, but I don't remember which song. I was not impressed. This was not due to the music directly, but to the fact that this Spencer guy (who was not for hire, that was Robert Urich) had previously given me reason to believe that he didn't know %#@!$* about good music, having convinced me to by a Passport album because he said they sounded like ELP! There4, I probably wasn't too receptive to the GG, and I forgot about it. Then the next year, in a different dorm (Slater, 5th floor; we called it "Slater House 5", we were so clever!), my roommate (not the heretofore unnamed Quad roomie), who was planning a career in broadcasting, did a couple of hours a week on the air at the campus radio station, where I would often visit. Going through the station's albums, I again stumbled on Octopus. We checked out a few cuts for airplay, and the album grew on me. Octopus became a frequent "let's borrow this one" album. I think we played Knots on the air, but this might not have been during the station's normal broadcasting hours (we snuck in off-hours a couple of times to put on our own little pirate broadcasts), so probably nobody heard it. But I still didn't buy any GG, being a poor college student. After dropping out in '76 (the 3rd switch of my major convinced me I was just wasting my time and my parents' money) and getting a job, I finally had some spare funding for album shopping. At this time I ran across Free Hand and, driven by my fond Octopus-inspired memories, I bought it. NOW, at the age of 21, I started hungrily buying all the albums. Have I answered all the questions? (For anyone despairing about my college career, the happy ending is that I went back in 83-85, for my BA in Computer Science.) _ _ _ Notice my new e-mail address: spoon@avalon.net. This may mean I won't get behind in my OR reading any more. Or it could mean I'll get behind even more, with the fighting with my 4 dependents over computer time. Spoon! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:07:30 -0500 From: DE Johnson Subject: gg: Re: percussions? (or Ima Dan Sing Fool!) Claudio666@aol.com wrote ('bout tunage): >But does it sound good? Does it make your synapses snap together? >Do you want more? ...is there more _to_ want? You are correct, SIR! AH-Hahahaha...(Eddy Mc) DJ/CiViLiAN/le Uncroyable M. Personne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:08:47 -0500 From: DE Johnson Subject: gg: Put on those eggs and hammy, Mammie! (or Thanx for Cattle, I Sing!) mammienun@webtv.net wrote: >This discussion got me thinking. It's time for another mammiepoll! "Hail to the Power and to Glory's Way!" >When you 1st heard GG, did you like them immediately? (D)Yes, but I was slightly baffled that they existed at all. The world (E)is not a very safe place for real art. (Z's suicide is sinking in as (J)I listen to more and more of his music...(but I digress a bit)). >Did you run out and start buying their albums, or did some time go by >before you began to appreciate them? How old were you and what year was >it when you 1st heard/bought GG? Then (of many) Claudio666@aol.com responded: >An interesting thread, on reflection...I certainly had Yes' "Fragile" >before GG "Octopus". Yes because "Roundabout" was on the radio and >was much better than everything else they were playing... (D)I had a similar experience. I was _heavily_ into 45s at the age of 8/9 (O)and bought my first LP at the age of 11...a Columbia comp. with Linda & (U)the Stoned Ponies (sp?), Bob Seger, and, my fav at the time, Black Sheep. (G)I continued to buy 45s...but I digress... (D)After I bought the 45 of "Roundabout" (1972) I found myself listening (E)to side B more than side A. But that happened a lot with my listening (J)to 45s... (D)...zoom ahead a few years! I bought Genesis "Trick of the Tail" when (E)I saw it on the shelves for the first time. I had read a review that (J)said it wasn't so good...that and the artwork convinced me to buy it! (C)...flash-forward again! A friend of mine (who I have since lost (i)track of) put a record on his turntable and handed me the cover. I (V)turned it over and over, very much into the artwork. I especially (i)liked the interlocking hands on the border...the sound of PONG fell (L)upon my ears...the rest is history!! I immediately went out and found (i)all of the Gentle Giant I could and bought it. This was just after (A)"Interview" came out. How melancholy it was to discover their music (N)near the beginning of the end! (D)Since then they have been my fav band. This has never changed. I have (O)heard some decent bands and several very good performers, but have never (U)come across the same kind of magic that GG had. I'm sure I have posted (G)this b-4, but, when I heard that GG had broken up and C was their last, (E)I wept. No joke. Make fun of me if you will. They meant that much to me. (J)Then I got re-motivated and I decided that, although there would never (O)be another Gentle Giant, I would carry on the tradition with my own music. (H)So, very seriously and meticulously, I continued to study theory, comp., (N)and several different insts. One of these daze, when things actually go (S)right in the studio for me, I'll put out a disc of my stuff and you can (O)be the judge. I don't pretend to reincarnate the Giant himself, but you (N)will certainly hear their influence in my music. (D)My ultimate goal (as far as recorded music goes) has been to find band (O)members as talented and focused as those in GG in order to continue the (U)performing tradition as well. So far I haven't had too much success. I (G)have demanded too much from those I have worked with and, well, it's (J)not been pretty. Zappa had it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good... (DJ)Long live the Gentle Giant thru tunage! DJ/CiViLiAN/le Uncroyable M. Personne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:10:24 -0400 From: Daniel Potvin Subject: gg: Quotation Hi all Chris Squire ones said " I never really saw the term rock & roll applying to YES, the challenge was to do something individual, not observing rules. Everthing about YES was non-standard. I think we set an example for other bands of how you can be different and be succesful. " Daniel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:27:54 -0400 From: Daniel Potvin Subject: gg: Quotation # 2 Hi all Jon Anderson ones said " We did what we set out to do, which was to keep going and not feed the POP machine, because it will swallow you ... Music is a very expanding thing. It's an all-powerful thing, it's a heading thing, it's a danceable thing, it's a soulful thing, and it's a very human thing. " Daniel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:44:17 +0200 From: "Frank B. Carvalho" Subject: RE: Fwd: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEF384.A0FAC850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >The impression I get is that there is no disagreement, something is >missing in GG's material that is a disappointment to the sensibilities >of whoever wrote that text. Something was missing in order for them to become BIG. Proof is that they did not become big. We all just wonder what it was... >You say that GG had no grandeur, nothing to make the listener say "WOW, >that was really intense!" Meanwhile, the so called intense thing is six >or eight fingers sitting on six or eight keys ......basically not doing >anything. It's the technology and the volume that seems to be so >impressive. Well, please speak for yourself, sir. I only speak for myself. The "WOW... intense" sentence is a blatant attempt to put words in my mouth - your words, not mine! Speak for yourself, sir! But six or eight continuous notes *can* be impressive and grandeous. That all depends on the context and the notes. Personally I rate GGs writing higher than Yes, but obviously you didn't get that. However, I do understand how GG may well be percieved by other people too. >As for there being TOO MUCH..... too much what? Progressive music is an >amalgam of styles so that can't be it, do you mean too many notes being >played at the same time? Emerson and to a much lesser degree Wakeman >play just as many notes, however they were mostly played in a linear >fashion. Ahh, then it must be all those notes played by several people >at the same time that your ear can't assimilate easily. It's called >counterpoint and it's one of the mainstays of Progressive music. >Moreover, THAT is the signature to GG that you don't recognize. You are barking up the wrong tree. We are all true believers here. >I agree they are not symphonic, but that isn't a bad thing and it isn't >a good thing. I wholeheartedly agree, it's just an obvious difference between GG and Yes, and therefore a probable reason why they did not catch on in the same way. >Beethoven was 'symphonic' while Chopin only wrote for the >piano. Are YOU going to judge the beauty and quality of their material >based on that? No, I don't judge other peoples work, but maybe a lot of Yes fans did. That was the point. Maybe more Yes fans were 'Beethoven' types than 'Chopin' types? >I'm sorry for rambling on like this but I feel strongly about your >comments and felt a need to put in my own 2 cents. I love the other >groups but in large part they just don't have the class that GG had. It >must have been crushing for them when their career as GG ended the way >it did. I think it's safe to say that we all feel this way about GG on this list, but it is interesting to understand *why* Yes made it big and GG didn't. Cheers Frank Carvalho - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEF384.A0FAC850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Fwd: gg: Re: Was Sky, now Yes

>The impression I get is that there is no disagreement, something is
>missing in GG's material that is a disappointment to the sensibilities
>of whoever wrote that text.

Something was missing in order for them to become BIG. Proof is that they
did not become big. We all just wonder what it was...

>You say that GG had no grandeur, nothing to make the listener say "WOW,
>that was really intense!" Meanwhile, the so called intense thing is six
>or eight fingers sitting on six or eight keys ......basically not doing
>anything. It's the technology and the volume that seems to be so
>impressive. Well, please speak for yourself, sir.

I only speak for myself. The "WOW... intense" sentence is a blatant attempt
to put words in my mouth - your words, not mine! Speak for yourself, sir!

But six or eight continuous notes *can* be impressive and grandeous.
That all depends on the context and the notes. Personally I rate GGs writing
higher than Yes, but obviously you didn't get that. However, I do understand
how GG may well be percieved by other people too.

>As for there being TOO MUCH..... too much what? Progressive music is an
>amalgam of styles so that can't be it, do you mean too many notes being
>played at the same time? Emerson and to a much lesser degree Wakeman
>play just as many notes, however they were mostly played in a linear
>fashion. Ahh, then it must be all those notes played by several people
>at the same time that your ear can't assimilate easily. It's called
>counterpoint and it's one of the mainstays of Progressive music.
>Moreover, THAT is the signature to GG that you don't recognize.

You are barking up the wrong tree. We are all true believers here.

>I agree they are not symphonic, but that isn't a bad thing and it isn't
>a good thing.

I wholeheartedly agree, it's just an obvious difference between GG and Yes,
and therefore a probable reason why they did not catch on in the same way.

>Beethoven was 'symphonic' while Chopin only wrote for the
>piano. Are YOU going to judge the beauty and quality of their material
>based on that?

No, I don't judge other peoples work, but maybe a lot of Yes fans did. That
was the point. Maybe more Yes fans were 'Beethoven' types than 'Chopin'
types?

>I'm sorry for rambling on like this but I feel strongly about your
>comments and felt a need to put in my own 2 cents. I love the other
>groups but in large part they just don't have the class that GG had. It
>must have been crushing for them when their career as GG ended the way
>it did.

I think it's safe to say that we all feel this way about GG on this list,
but it is interesting to understand *why* Yes made it big and GG didn't.

Cheers

Frank Carvalho

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