on-reflection-digest Wednesday, July 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1788 gg: Re: Julius J. Saroka Re: gg: Re: nonGG: Rock Violinists Re: gg: Re: GG re: Freehand- ATT gg: Re: Tales gg: Rock Violinists gg: The Green Album ver 1.5; good double albums that aren't live gg: The Green Album ver 1.5; good double albums that aren't live Re: gg: Re: Tales Fwd: nongg: Double LPs, CDs, etc. gg: KC Live on Broadway gg: KC Live on Broadway gg: Uriah Heep Re: nongg: Re: Origami gg: The Golden Days of ARP Re: nongg: short stories vs. novels gg: Pavlov was right! gg: Tales ... the final vibration? gg: Bert is Evil Re: no gg:more Tales rantings Re: nongg: Randomness Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell Re: nogg: Truth is Stranger Than Bitchers gg: I must have waited all my life for this . . . gg: John ... The Man ... McLaughlin gg: RE: Re: Tales nogg: Whos frickin go-cart? Re: gg:Kerry Minnear interview Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell Re: gg: KC Live on Broadway Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:00:50 -0400 From: "drj_saro" Subject: gg: Re: Julius J. Saroka i love you too, REG - thanks for your support (and with the proper support, it helps me to hold it in!) thank you for your time and attention. Julius J. SAROKA drj_saro@neo.rr.com Cuyahoga Falls OHIO - -----Original Message----- From: Reginald Dunlop To: on-reflection@darkwing.uoregon.edu ; chiefs18@hotmail.com Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 12:55 PM Subject: gg: Julius J. Saroka >LEAVE Julius J. "The Owl" Saroka ALONE! He's just an old fart you see. He >can't hold in his pee pee. ;) > >REG > > >>Open letter to Julius >> >>Hey, Julius, >>after reading several of your comments (not just to what I wrote) methinks >>that >>you tend to be a tad bit on the intolerant side. If it ain't your >>trustworthy >>prog stuff, you just describe everything as crap. >>Piece of advice: Loosen up, prick your ears in different directions as well >>and >>enjoy what's coming your way. >>After all, all that GG was about was breaking boundaries that were erected >>by >>intolerant sticklers for rules. >>Now back to O-R pleasures... >>Carsten the Krautmeister >>P.S.: REALLY no offence meant - just a thought. > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:25:23 +0100 From: Bob Taylor Subject: Re: gg: Re: nonGG: Rock Violinists In message <00de01bed814$385b36c0$781e883e@anton.media.uki.ime.reuters.c om>, Ant writes >-----Original Message----- >From: Yurchison, Gerry > > >>Can anyone recommend any good rock and or jazz violinists > >Besides the ones mentioned I would like to add Ed Alleyne Johnson to the >list. I would like to but I don't really like his stuff much. My friend >raves about him but I find his music overly repetetive in a Phillip Glass >kind of way. > >Ant Hey, I saw Ed when he and his wife (of Scouse origin?) played a gig in a very local place. They were a duo, actually, and the style was quite unlike his "solo" work. Quite MOR; so I can't really heap too much praise, but good singing and playing all the same. Returning to Ant's point: Does he overdo repetitiveness in his own albums? Well, do ladybirds like aphids? However, I quite like a certain amount of Ed's stuff. The problem with it, for me, is the lack of other instruments - and specifically percussion, so all the rhythm is dependent on effect-loops. Bob - -- Bob Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:13:50 -0400 From: "Drew W. Eaton" Subject: Re: gg: Re: GG re: Freehand- ATT Simon wrote in response to Bert about Freehand: >Second point. The Terrapin ('Truck' catalogue) is so so so much better than >the One-Way. There is no comparison. Are you comparing it to the Terrapin >'RGF' issue? I'm with Simon here. I've had the Terrapin Truckin' release since I lost my spleen listening to the old Line version. I've thought it uniformly outstanding (especially when compared to the Line release-yikes!) My system is by no means at the audiophile level...even so, if you've got the Truckin' release ...put on On Reflection and crank it up! Drew np-Coltrane-Village Vanguard disc 3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:02:24 +1200 From: "Keri Ford" Subject: gg: Re: Tales > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3016004544_442950_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Steve.Christensen@telex.com wrote: No, I have to disagree with some of the recent criticisms of Yes' Tales album. On the contrary, I think it ranks with the very best of prog, so neener, neener, neener! When you keep in mind that it was only 1973, I think it's pretty amazing. It was my favorite album for YEARS after it came out. Now, I will agree that the lyrics are a little much at times, but what else is new with Jon Anderson? I agree with you as to Tales being a fantastic album. This is progressive rock taken to a certain wonderful extreme. I don't agree with you on the lyrics, and here I think I'll be putting myself out on a limb, I think Anderson's lyrics are an absolutely essential componant in the make up of a unified Yes VISION. So many bands do not take any chances with lyrics, they are unadventurious, boring and predictable, Yes' lyrics are not. Yes is not simply a band that do some nice playing, their music forms a coherent whole and mysticism is an essential part of that vision/coherence. If you can't take the whole package then you're not getting the most out of Yes. The absolute audacity of Jon's lyrics totally delights me! Sides 1 and 2 sort of go together in one way, and sides 3 and 4 go together in an altogether different, and much more adventurous way. To me it's almost like two complete albums, and I don't typically listen to all four sides in a row. I certainly wouldn't call it a concept album. It was conceived as a whole, the liner notes make that very clear. And musically it has a very unified feel. It is a concept album. I always favored the first 2 sides so I find it interesting to hear you favour the last 2. This makes an interesting point as to the double album contraversy, different people will see different parts as the dross that needs to be cut out. "Daniel V.Gomes" wrote: Critics have never been right about prog, because most of them did never understand it. The word of a critic means nothing to me in which is related to progressive music. That sounds something aggressive but it's what I believe. As for "Tales From Topographic Oceans" , it's your right not enjoying it. But I don't think it was really that bad. On contrary. Why could not Yes try a new format, a double LP album, a piece divided in 4 movements? Because the critics would not like it? I have been reading through some yes criticism and I was amazed all over again by just how down right mean and vindictive the critics were about Yes. Even in interviews they could be really cutting and rude. It really counts in Yes' favour that they stuck to their guns and had confidence in what they were doing. I agree with Daniel on this one, the critics never got inside this music and tried to find out where it was coming from. "Songs from the Wood" is one of my favorite concept albums. Also PatG, Thick as a Brick, Jump by Van Dyke Parks and Orange Crate Art by Parks & Brian Wilson, Does Debussy's Pelleas and Mellisande count as a concept album or Purcell's Dido and Aneas? I haven't heard Lamb I'd like to har some more in depth comments regarding this album and whether I should buy it. Keri np: Tales from Topographic Oceans - --MS_Mac_OE_3016004544_442950_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Tales Steve.Christensen@telex.com wrote:

No, I have to disagree with some of the recent criticisms of Ye= s' Tales album.
On the contrary, I think it ranks with the very best of prog, so neener, ne= ener,
neener!  When you keep in mind that it was only 1973, I think it's pre= tty
amazing.  It was my favorite album for YEARS after it came out.  = Now, I will
agree that the lyrics are a little much at times, but what else is new with= Jon
Anderson?

I agree with you as to Tales being a fantastic album. This is progressive r= ock taken to a certain wonderful extreme. I don't agree with you on the lyri= cs, and here I think I'll be putting myself out on a limb, I think Anderson'= s lyrics are an absolutely essential componant in the make up of a unified Y= es VISION. So many bands do not take any chances with lyrics, they are unadv= enturious, boring and predictable, Yes' lyrics  are not. Yes is not sim= ply a band that do some nice playing, their music forms a coherent whole and= mysticism is an essential part of that vision/coherence. If you can't take = the whole package then you're not getting the most out of Yes. The absolute = audacity of Jon's lyrics totally delights me!

Sides 1 and 2 sort of go together in one way, and sides 3 and 4= go
together in an altogether different, and much more adventurous way.  T= o me it's
almost like two complete albums, and I don't typically listen to all four s= ides
in a row.  I certainly wouldn't call it a concept album.

It was conceived as a whole, the liner notes make that very clear. And musi= cally it has a very unified feel. It is a concept album. I always favored th= e first 2 sides so I find it interesting to hear you favour the last 2. This= makes an interesting point as to the double album contraversy, different pe= ople will see different parts as the dross that needs to be cut out.

 "Daniel V.Gomes" wrote:

Critics  have never been right about prog, because most of= them did never understand it.
The word of a critic means nothing to me in which is related to progressive= music.
That sounds something aggressive but it's what I believe.


As for "Tales From Topographic Oceans" , it's your ri= ght not enjoying it. But I
don't think it was really that bad. On contrary. Why could not Yes try a ne= w format,
a double LP album, a piece divided in 4 movements? Because the critics woul= d
not like it?

I have been reading through some yes criticism and I was amaze= d all over again by just how down right mean and vindictive the critics were= about Yes. Even in interviews they could be really cutting and rude. It rea= lly counts in Yes' favour that they stuck to their guns and had confidence i= n what they were doing. I agree with Daniel on this one, the critics never g= ot inside this music and tried to find out where it was coming from.

"Songs from the Wood" is one of my favorite concept albums. Also = PatG, Thick as a Brick, Jump by Van Dyke Parks and Orange Crate Art by Parks= & Brian Wilson, Does Debussy's Pelleas and Mellisande count as a concep= t album or Purcell's Dido and Aneas? I haven't heard Lamb I'd like to har so= me more in depth comments regarding this album and whether I should buy it.<= BR>
Keri
np: Tales from Topographic Oceans - --MS_Mac_OE_3016004544_442950_MIME_Part-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:17:42 -0400 From: "David and Stacey Shur" Subject: gg: Rock Violinists Rock Violinist Michael Dreyfus of McKendree Spring certainly deserves a hands up. He turned this prospective country rock band into something a little closer to progressive rock. -David Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:07:33 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: The Green Album ver 1.5; good double albums that aren't live >He made the Green Album 2 1/2 times (time #1 ½ was the best, I thought...), Got a copy Rich? ;) What were the differences between Time 2-1/2 and Time 1-1/2? >...someday, I'll tell the story of how Eddie "doesn't do sessions". OK! >n.p. KC: Live on Broadway (this is awesome!) I hope this shows up in my mailbox soon. >i repeat my earlier question - name a double album (or an 80-minute CD) that was _good_ from start to finish without any filler. (live albums and classical music don't count) Well that rules out PtF. How about Sonic Seasonings? Electric Ladyland? Forward Into the Past? I dare not mention Tales from Topographic Oceans. Wheels of Fire - oops that's half live. Tanz der Lemminge? Focus 3, there's a good 'un. I'll bet there are more. >Well, let's see...Genesis "Lamb", yeah, that one too. >- i just don't think that there are that many of them around, or that it's too realistic to expect an artist to come up with that much material consistantly. I agree with the realistic expectations part of that sentence. - S. np: From Bangor all the way to mighty Maine scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:07:33 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: gg: The Green Album ver 1.5; good double albums that aren't live >He made the Green Album 2 1/2 times (time #1 ½ was the best, I thought...), Got a copy Rich? ;) What were the differences between Time 2-1/2 and Time 1-1/2? >...someday, I'll tell the story of how Eddie "doesn't do sessions". OK! >n.p. KC: Live on Broadway (this is awesome!) I hope this shows up in my mailbox soon. >i repeat my earlier question - name a double album (or an 80-minute CD) that was _good_ from start to finish without any filler. (live albums and classical music don't count) Well that rules out PtF. How about Sonic Seasonings? Electric Ladyland? Forward Into the Past? I dare not mention Tales from Topographic Oceans. Wheels of Fire - oops that's half live. Tanz der Lemminge? Focus 3, there's a good 'un. I'll bet there are more. >Well, let's see...Genesis "Lamb", yeah, that one too. >- i just don't think that there are that many of them around, or that it's too realistic to expect an artist to come up with that much material consistantly. I agree with the realistic expectations part of that sentence. - S. np: From Bangor all the way to mighty Maine scottst@ohsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:36:28 +0200 From: casglatze@t-online.de (casglatze) Subject: Re: gg: Re: Tales Keri Ford schrieb: > Steve.Christensen@telex.com wrote: > > No, I have to disagree with some of the recent criticisms of Yes' Tales > album. > On the contrary, I think it ranks with the very best of prog, so neener, > neener, > neener! When you keep in mind that it was only 1973, I think it's pretty > amazing. It was my favorite album for YEARS after it came out. Now, I will > agree that the lyrics are a little much at times, but what else is new with > Jon > Anderson? > > I agree with you as to Tales being a fantastic album. This is progressive > rock taken to a certain wonderful extreme. I don't agree with you on the > lyrics, and here I think I'll be putting myself out on a limb, I think > Anderson's lyrics are an absolutely essential componant in the make up of a > unified Yes VISION. So many bands do not take any chances with lyrics, they > are unadventurious, boring and predictable, Yes' lyrics are not. Yes is not > simply a band that do some nice playing, their music forms a coherent whole > and mysticism is an essential part of that vision/coherence. If you can't > take the whole package then you're not getting the most out of Yes. The > absolute audacity of Jon's lyrics totally delights me! > > Sides 1 and 2 sort of go together in one way, and sides 3 and 4 go > together in an altogether different, and much more adventurous way. To me > it's > almost like two complete albums, and I don't typically listen to all four > sides > in a row. I certainly wouldn't call it a concept album. > > It was conceived as a whole, the liner notes make that very clear. And > musically it has a very unified feel. It is a concept album. I always > favored the first 2 sides so I find it interesting to hear you favour the > last 2. This makes an interesting point as to the double album contraversy, > different people will see different parts as the dross that needs to be cut > out. Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But here in Munich, people don't seem to take too kindly to TFTO and - unfortunately - Relayer, as the Japanese miniature paper sleeve editions (with HDCD mastering) are approaching the bin with each passing day. Oh, BTW, how about another little discussion - and I'd really like to get everybody's opinions on this: I think that the Japanese miniature paper sleeve editions (really hard cardboard - not the crap digipaks) are heaven on earth. They are absolutely identical to the LP originals (including inserts, etc.), are usually remastered (so you get the best possible sound) and should thus satisfy record and CD collectors alike. You take care of them (so that the edges don't fray - did you do that, too?), you have no crackles, but disturbance-free sound, and you get the original packaging - sorta gives you a record-collecting feeling. Okay, the drawback is that you still have the small sleeves, but what gives? Discuss, kids! Carsten the Krautmeister ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:32:09 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Fwd: nongg: Double LPs, CDs, etc. - --part1_7742ebc6.24cfb799_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do believe that this was meant to be shared with the list... - --part1_7742ebc6.24cfb799_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (rly-yg05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.5]) by air-yg03.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:49:54 -0400 Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de (mailout02.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.150]) by rly-yg05.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:49:41 -0400 Received: from fwd10.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.170]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 118yFI-00051Y-00; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:49:40 +0200 Received: (320045060098-0001(btxid)@[62.157.22.240]) by fwd10.btx.dtag.de id ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:49:34 +0200 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:49:34 +0200 To: Claudio666@aol.com References: <73a5a804.24cbd9ba@aol.com> Subject: Re: nongg: Double LPs, CDs, etc. X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Sender: 320045060098-0001@t-online.de From: casglatze@t-online.de (casglatze) Claudio666@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 7/24/99 1:09:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > drj_saro@neo.rr.com writes: > > << (how many > double albums can you name that are really _good_ from beginning to end?) > > Well, let's see...Genesis "Lamb", YUP! Yes "Tales", YUP! Jarrett "Koln", DOUBLE YUP! Boy, I love all these O-R people who still listen to this great cream of the crop stuff! and I guess > we'll not be counting those double live albums like PtF...You're right, there > aren't many! Let me add one or two: Kraan: Live (German band at the peak of their career) Led Zep: Physical Graffiti Deep Purple: Made in Japan Chicago: Live at Carnegie Hall (even 4 LPs with no fillers) Uriah Heep: Live '73 (I suppose most of you are gonna hate me for this...) Todd Rundgren: A Wizard A true star & Initiation and Utopia's first (I know they're singles, but they run so bloody long that they fall into this bracket) Hölderlin: Traumstadt Zappa: most doubles (and more) Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds Stevie Wonder: Songs in the key of life (shame that Innervisions wasn't a double - - would've fit nicely) Who: Tommy and Quadrophenia I think I could find quite a few more. But this should give you enough amunition to rip me to shreds (right, Julius?) and yes, I did include live albums, because there's so many of 'em which are crap even though the artists had the chance to pick something decent from their repertoire. > > < without the 20-30 minutes of lesser stuff. what do the rest of you think? > >> > > My biggest gripe with GG was that their LPs usually ran 36 minutes, 18 to a > side. I wanted more! I had to wait a full year to get another 36 minutes? > But of course the quality made up for the quantity. Same goes for the (Dixie) Dregs. I have quite a few LPs > that seem to be at least half filler, yeilding only 20 or so minutes of > quality. On the other hand, if something's extremely good, stimulating, > exciting, it's always over too soon no matter how long it is. And the > converse is true as well: if it's droll, it just drags on.... > > CDs are obviously more convenient, less prone to deterioration with repeated > plays, take up less space and can be played at higher volumes without > distortion. I think that the consumer feels cheated if the length is less > than 60 minutes. That "perceived value" thing. The "faithful" reproduction > of LP-to-CD was, and to some degree, still is a problem. In the early years, > companies were guilty of rushing the past catalog to market in the new format > with little or no concern for careful remastering. I, for one, wisely > decided to keep my vinyl. Though I am guilty of getting a CD of something I > already have for the "bonus tracks" and am usually disappointed... > > I'm also with David et.al. re: the vinyl experience. First, size DID matter > in terms of cover art, lyric sheets, etc. Also, the order of the songs had > to take into account what went Side A, 1st track and Side B, 1st track, and > in some cases Side A, last track. Continuity, artistic pause, dynamics and > all that. It was a loving ritual with me as well to get up and flip that LP > over. I still find myself doing that when I've got a CD of something I have > on vinyl. Pavlov lives. > > Claudio > n.d. Bavaria > n.p. Strawbs "Hero" (found a German CD w/bonus tracks this very evening!) good news for you. Most of their stuff has been released in remastered form with bonus tracks. Hero is my favourite, though - --part1_7742ebc6.24cfb799_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:58:15 -0400 From: "David and Stacey Shur" Subject: gg: KC Live on Broadway > >n.p. KC: Live on Broadway (this is awesome!) Any info on this one? Is this another set of 1969 Crimson? Or something else? -David Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:58:15 -0400 From: "David and Stacey Shur" Subject: gg: KC Live on Broadway > >n.p. KC: Live on Broadway (this is awesome!) Any info on this one? Is this another set of 1969 Crimson? Or something else? -David Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:07:46 -0400 From: "David and Stacey Shur" Subject: gg: Uriah Heep Someone (sorry, forgot who!) brought up the live Uriah Heep album. Although I enjoyed much of the earlier Heep up to that point, I always felt that live album to be devoid of the energy and feeling their studio works had. The only enjoyable aspect of it was the liner notes- the revenge of the band on the critics who slagged them and predicted they'd go nowhere was musing. -David Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:27:15 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nongg: Re: Origami In a message dated 7/27/99 6:42:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time, casglatze@t-online.de writes: << Okay, the drawback is that you still have the small sleeves, but what gives? Discuss, kids! >> I like short sleeves, but that's a different story...I like the 12x12 format. I haven't seen these new CD versions but they sound like they're gonna be a lot of work to read...great idea, though...my vinyl AND cover art is and has always been protected by plastic covers. I'm so proud... Personally, I think they should be doing reissues in the original 12x12 covers with the CD inside. I know, I'm probably either asking too much or it just makes too much sense... Claudio n.d. heavily n.p. Astros/Rockies Game 2 of 4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 99 22:35:15 -0400 From: kiirja Subject: gg: The Golden Days of ARP >This is some recommendation. I shall watch this argument proceed as I don't >have this album or LTE2 yet either. (How's it compare to LTE1 Kiirja) This one is much better thought out and executed than the first one on all levels. The compositions are musch more complete and less of that noodling/jamming feeling that is on the first. The sections fit together better and all four musicians play much more from the heart (IMHO) than on the first (which they admit was rushed thru and put together in bits and pieces to git their schedule conflicts) >>In the liner notes they said that they are >>considering sending a gift to the first person to send in the >> _correct_ notation for all the meter changes--and there are plenty! > >THey probably just lost the score and want someone else to remind them where >the changes are. Could be, but I am having a great time counting it all out! Who cares if theres a prize? ;-) >>np live: Funny Ways and Nothing at All on guitar >If you've notated these can you share them with me? I'll be happy to send them out when they are done. One the ARP issue....Don's description is essentially correct. I don't know where my schematics are anymore, but I do still have a 2600 Owners Manual around here somehere. I tested these instruments for several years. Any oscillator that drifted was replaced. There was a 1 week burn in time for each instrument, then it went thru an electronic test (scoped) and then to musical test where it was listened to and played by a human being (me). I had to be able to describe to the techs what the thing I was hearing would/should look like on the scope, whenever there were anomalies. Among other things I had to: Test all the contacts on the keys for a certain "feel". All the ADSR filters had to meet certain specs, I had to test the entire range of the ocsillator 20 to 20K Hz for dropouts and variances. Analyze the "quality" of the pink and white noise generators. There was a turnpot in each machine which I tuned by beating the frequency against a tuning fork which I held in my teeth. (Ah, I love high tech!) I checked all the slide pots to make sure there were no skips and that they incremented logrythmically. The original ARPs were pretty tough machines, and could take the abuse of touring, however they made some chassis design changes in 78 (going from folded aluminum sheets to spot-welded steel) which was a big mistake and we had a lot of instruments returned because they didn't hold up mechanically, though the electronics were mostly the same. The Quadra was an unwieldy machine to carry around and they didn't even add handles. kiirja ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:34:37 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nongg: short stories vs. novels In a message dated 7/27/99 4:21:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, drj_saro@neo.rr.com writes: << then what literary terms would you use to describe 'A Plague of Lighthouse-keepers', 'Flight', and 'A Headlong Stretch'? >> Well, short stories. Keeping in context, we WERE talking about concept ALBUMS, not concept SONGS or concept SIDES. Cause, if we were, we would have LOTS of time to discuss "Close To the Edge" or "Supper's Ready" or "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" or...somebody make me stop... Claudio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 99 22:47:59 -0400 From: kiirja Subject: gg: Pavlov was right! >This seems as good a time as any to ask if other people "hear" cuts >before they arrive. In other words, you know an album so well that when >a cut ends, maybe even BEFORE it does -- you can hear the next one in >your mind. Absolutely. It's that Pavlovian reaction! ;-) I get especially annoyed when I listen to the third movement of Brahms fourth symphony and the next movement doesn't start with "Tell the moondog, tell the March hare...." ;-) kiirja np: Brahms! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:17:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JohnEric Subject: gg: Tales ... the final vibration? If ya'll will permit me, I'd like to encapsulate the "Tales..." controversy with an end-statement. Those that enjoy TFTO tend to get into the overall spiritual nature of the project. The so-called "filler" allows time for the mind to drift and meditate. Those that dislike the album want a tight concept album that cuts right to the point, or points. It's a mind thing vs. a spiritual thing. I enjoy Steve Roach music TREMENDOUSLY ... and that is the same kind of spiritual approach. I like to think of it the way the recent physics "superstring theory" thinks of the nature of everything. Spirit vibrates. Just my take. Thanks. JEE _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:27:23 -0700 (PDT) From: JohnEric Subject: gg: Bert is Evil I just thought I'd pass this along for the hell of it. I'm sure many of you will not be surprised to learn that Bert is Evil. http://fractalcow.com/bert/ JEE _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:34:13 EDT From: Underdub@aol.com Subject: Re: no gg:more Tales rantings In a message dated 7/27/99 10:37:09 AM Central Daylight Time, veeter@vermontel.net writes: > I do think some of the motivations for prog were extremely silly(Keith > Emerson comes to mind). And no, we shouldn't just be satisfied with > simpler music unless that's your bag, but on the same token, we > shouldn't be satisfied with something that on the surface tries to be > complex just for the sake of being complex, which is what TFTO screams > in volumes. You can't polish a turd. Thanks for this input. Remember: all styles of music can suck. All of them can be magnificent. That's all I try to convey to people. Being "loyal" to one style or other just blinds one to the music. - -DD- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:36:37 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nongg: Randomness In a message dated 7/27/99 9:26:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dloft@netcom.com writes: << I don't have a random player -- I've only seen and heard other people's. But I can appreciate what you're saying. Every once in a while, random play must come up with a dynamite segue in terms of mood, or very different tunes in the same key.... This seems as good a time as any to ask if other people "hear" cuts before they arrive. In other words, you know an album so well that when a cut ends, maybe even BEFORE it does -- you can hear the next one in your mind. >> My kids constantly use "Shuffle Play", even if it's a CD they've never heard before. I say it's Chaos Theory. That and they have no respect for order. It makes me nuts. When I go to play a CD, it always starts somewhere besides Track 1, then I've got to take it off Shuffle and start over. These things really annoy a person when they get older. I think there should be a V-Chip-like lockout on that Shuffle button... Like I mentioned a couple of days ago, or was it only yesterday...I still find myself acting like Pavlov's dog when listening to a CD of something I have on vinyl. The end of the old "Side A" comes up and I'm heading for the stereo to flip the disc. Claudio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:40:05 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell In a message dated 7/27/99 12:42:18 AM Mountain Daylight Time, SPBrader writes: << Claudio writes: << And now I'm wondering why, with some of the best story telling ever done on vinyl, in the personage of Peter Hammill & VDGG, that he/they never did a "concept" album? Maybe they did and I haven't figured it out... >> He did at least one overtly concept album : 'Over' >> Well, a bunch of songs about a romantic breakup doesn't qualify as a "concept" album...does it? Well, maybe... I'll think about it. And YOU think about UK's 1st LP. AGAIN! Claudio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:43:28 EDT From: Claudio666@aol.com Subject: Re: nogg: Truth is Stranger Than Bitchers In a message dated 7/26/99 10:58:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time, tjtrott@mindspring.com writes: << Now, I no longer have any reference as to where "Side Ruth" ends and "Side Richard" begins...some help out there? >> Side Ruth ends with "Song For Che" and Side Richard begins with "Muddy Mouse" Claudio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:54:13 PDT From: "Mark Wendt - MTO" Subject: gg: I must have waited all my life for this . . . Hi friends - MTO here... Enthused to be able to report a very special moment - MOment - MOMENT! :-) Today - for I think the first time in my life... I listened to Side One of TFTO without falling asleep or losing interest! (a goal that eluded me in my first 35 years of existance) :-) What was the trick? Well, not laying down and closing my eyes seemed to be a good start! ;-) As stupid as that sounds - there is a lot of truth to it! Much of my music listening has been done in the most relaxed of circumstances - a situation where I can simply be absorbed in thinking and feeling the music. (But this approach never seemed to *work* for Tales). FWIW - I can recline and close my eyes through 'Close to the Edge' and it doesn't have the same sedative effect... I've now listened to Side One 3 times and I'm on my 4th listen to Side Two today. Wonderful to finally be digging this one! (And I do think very well...) MTO! :-) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:54:59 -0700 (PDT) From: JohnEric Subject: gg: John ... The Man ... McLaughlin Yeah! Mclaughlin! They'll tell you ... that's one man, I swear ... yeah, that's a man! (OK audiophiles, who did I just paraphrase?) A truly fine combination of several of my favorite guitar styles. JM was very much a part of my youthful muse. JEE - --- "Drew W. Eaton" wrote: > Hey, > For those interested, there's a good article about John McLaughlin, > fusion, > etc in the new Stereophile (Aug 1999). 6 pages in length. > Drew > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:09:02 -0700 From: William Tindall Subject: gg: RE: Re: Tales Keri: << I haven't heard Lamb I'd like to har some more in depth comments regarding this album and whether I should buy it.>> Well, I guess I may as well get my 2 lps in on this. I personally consider "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" to be the pinnacle of the progressive concept album, as well as the pinochle of Genesis' output, and I fail utterly to understand why anyone wouldn't agree. ;^} In other words, my advice is buy it, and listen to it over and over and over and over. If you like Gabriel-era Genesis, I very much doubt you'll be disappointed. I certainly wasn't, though it took me 2 weeks when it first came out to get "Selling England By The Pound" out of my head. Once that happened, I was captured, and remain so. Bill "I love TFTO too!" T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:46:49 +0000 From: Toby Trott Subject: nogg: Whos frickin go-cart? Hello Fellow Wacky Racontuers, Mark Potts thundered: > A good concept album is a bit like rocking horse shit really. Well, RWs > Journey comes to mind but, for my dosh...Three Friends. Clever but not too > muchly, superbly played and you can listen to it all the way through without > wondering when it's all going to be over. Never could manage that with > Toby's Graphic Go-Kart. For me, Toby is everything that was ever wrong with > prog. Pretentious? Doesn't even begin to describe it. It is really the only > thing Yes have ever done that I can't listen to. Hell, I even loved Big > Generator! > > Am I Evil? You must be. Now, back up a little...what's this "Toby's Graphic Go-Kart"? I've never heard of it, and I think I would have noticed something named 'Toby'. And giving it such a bad review...'is everything wrong with prog'???? I'm trying hard not to take it personally. :) This is something on a Yes album? I gave up on them after "Tales", myself, yet I have somehow bought some later releases, without ever regaining the Fragile/CTTE excitement...missed this though. I would have thought one of my many prog friends would have mentioned it. Please explain. Toby @home I'm tjtrott@mindspring.com, and @work I'm trott@sas.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:35:56 +0000 From: Diana Green Subject: Re: gg:Kerry Minnear interview high ho: re: William Hack wrote: > I've been searching for years the Contemporary Keyboard interview with > Kerry in the May/June 1976 issue.As a keyboardist myself, I'm eager to > know what Kerry had to say. Has this ever been republished? Can maybe > Prof. Barrett get permission from Keyboard to publish it on the GG > website(interview section)? Actually it was reprinted in the Minnear issue (#3, I believe) of Proclamation. Relatively easy to get; check out Dr. Dan's website for the latest skinny on back issues and subscribing. still, dg np: silence (it's 1:35 AM and my sweetie's sleeping!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:40:53 +0000 From: Diana Green Subject: Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell hail again; a couple of titles come to mind as guilty pleasures (well, one not so guilty in terms of of its overall coolness, the other some find embarrassing): Consequences by Godley & Creme Hope by Klaatu And even though there are no words, I tend to think of Gryphon's Red Queen to Gryphon Three as a concept album. A concept album with no story? what a concept! still, dg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 03:58:25 EDT From: SPBrader@aol.com Subject: Re: gg: KC Live on Broadway David Eric writes: << > >n.p. KC: Live on Broadway (this is awesome!) Any info on this one? Is this another set of 1969 Crimson? Or something else? >> No. It is the DoubleTrio recorded a year after the B'Boom 'official bootleg' and released as part of the King Crimson Collector's Club series (Vols 5&6). It is incredible. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 03:58:26 EDT From: SPBrader@aol.com Subject: Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell Claudio writes: << Well, a bunch of songs about a romantic breakup doesn't qualify as a "concept" album...does it? >> As much as a bunch of songs about the adventures of a guy named Rael or the fate of three schoolfriends or a deaf dumb and blind kid ;-) I doubt that he sat down and decided to make an album charting the break-up and its effects. The songs were more likely just a reflection of his state of mind at the time. Are Lamb and Tommy really *musically* conceptual or merely in the narrative? Depends on how you slice it I guess. Go well, Simon n.p. TftO (apparently, this is at #938 or thereabouts in the Amazon.com sales chart which if you think about it is pretty good going) ------------------------------ End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1788 ************************************