on-reflection-digest     Wednesday, July 28 1999     Volume 01 : Number 1790



gg: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union
gg: three patch sheets to the wind
Re: gg: Rock Violinists
Re: gg: Tales ... the final vibration?
gg: Re: noGG: TfTO Talk
gg: FH ONE WAY
Re: gg: Pavlov was right!
Re: gg: Pavlov was right! 
gg: RE: Hidden messages
gg: RE: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union
gg: Re: The Pacific NW GGetogether
Re: gg: Fisticuffs Yes! Yes! YES!
Re: gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP
gg: (no-gg) Electric Violin - Dirty Three
no gg: Rock Violinists...
gg: RE: nonGG: Rock Violinists
Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell
gg: Concept Albums & TFTO
gg: Gary Robert Citro
Re: gg: Bert is Evil
RE: gg: (non-gg)Ian McDonald
gg: [No GG] Jethro Tull
gg: two more rock violinists & some excellent concept albums
gg: Re: Fisticuffs Yes! Yes! YES!
Re: gg: RE: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union
Re: nongg: Hammill vs. GG  Genesis and The Who, concept-wise
Re: gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP (& Moog too)
Re: gg: Hidden messages
Re: nongg: short stories vs. novels
gg: TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS
Re: gg: three patch sheets to the wind
Re: gg: I must have waited all my life for this . . . 
gg: Hidden near the run-out grooves grooves
gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP 
gg: Days of ARP  & Moog
nongg:(if you don't count a Shulman) violinists
nongg: Pink Floyd and my progeny
gg: Re: NW GGetogether Diner location
Re: gg: Tales ... the final vibration?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:50:38 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: gg: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union

At 9:00 AM -0400 7/28/99, concerning Yes' Union tour, Ant wrote:
>Well I never sensed any tension when I saw them on that tour. I expected it
>but I think Jon Anderson is the great peacemaker of the band. He certainly
>has been able to heal many rifts down the years. I imagined he had convinced
>everyone that they were friends and that the ego was an ugly thing.

I saw Yes a number of times over the years, starting with Feb. 1972, the
"Fragile" tour (amazing, BTW), and extending through the Union tour.  I
thought the Union tour was as good as any I'd seen previously.  It was
great seeing all the "right" guys playing the "right" parts - didn't have
to wait for Trevor Rabin to play the solo in "Yours Is No Disgrace", nor
hear Steve Howe playing "Owner of a Lonely Heart".

I believe "Awaken" may have been the surprise highlight of the evening for
me.  Bruford and White really shined together on that one.

Best,
Rich

Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:52:14 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: gg: three patch sheets to the wind

At 9:00 AM -0400 7/28/99, Ant wrote:
>One synth player I knew had paper maps of the knobs on his synth
>on which he drew lines to indicate the position of the knob.

I still do this with our Minimoog to this day.

>Didn't ARP
>incorporate some kind of programmable analogue synth which remembered
>settings?

Not for a long time after the 2600, they didn't.....if they did at all,
that is.

Best,
Rich

Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:02:32 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Ville V Sinkko 
Subject: Re: gg: Rock Violinists

"Undead is whoever can wait eternally in ambush 
 ready to seize with a delurk!"

N'oubliez pas who I consider one of the Big-Time Geniuses (Geni? 
Octopi? ) of contemporary music.. Gèrard Hourbette!


- --
65
  Zn		NP Krzysztof Penderecki - "O Crux"
30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:52:40 -0400
From: Tomas 
Subject: Re: gg: Tales ... the final vibration?

At 08:17 PM 7/27/1999 -0700, JohnEric wrote:

>If ya'll will permit me, I'd like to encapsulate the "Tales..."
>controversy with an end-statement.  Those that enjoy TFTO tend to get into
>the overall spiritual nature of the project.  The so-called "filler"
>allows time for the mind to drift and meditate.  Those that dislike the
>album want a tight concept album that cuts right to the point, or points. 
>It's a mind thing vs. a spiritual thing.

Couldn't disagree more, at least for me.  As a Christian, I certainly don't
get into the overall spiritual nature of the music.  I'm there for the
music, for the mind thing, and I don't think there's a bit of filler on it.
 It's a great album.

I don't think I would want to see Jon cut it down for re-issue.  It would
be an interesting intellectual exercise, but I think the music would suffer
greatly.


***************************************************************************
* Tomas                      *  "Tolerance is the virtue of the man       *
* West Chazy, NY  USA        *   without convictions."  - GK Chesterton   *
* tomas@slic.com             *   		                          *
***************************************************************************
* Howie Web:       http://www.howies.org/                                 *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:52:37 -0400
From: "Marc P. Guilbert" 
Subject: gg: Re: noGG: TfTO Talk

Fellow Gentle Raconteurs and Giant Troubadors:

Mark shared this voyage of discovery with us... ;-)

>Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:54:13 PDT
>From: "Mark Wendt - MTO" 
>Subject: gg: I must have waited all my life for this . . . 
>
>Hi friends -
>
>MTO here...
>
>Enthused to be able to report a very special
>moment -  MOment - MOMENT! :-)
>
>Today - for I think the first time in my life... I listened to Side One of 
>TFTO without falling asleep or losing interest!  (a goal that  eluded me in 
>my first 35 years of existance)  :-)
>
Hmmm... That means, on the day you were born, you knew your goal in life
was to listen to an album that would only be recorded when you turned 9?
Now THAT is a truly dedicated PROGGER!!!  Born in 1964?  Must have had the
Beatles' "Hard Days Night" playing in the delivery room! ;-)

>I've now listened to Side One 3 times and I'm on my 4th listen to Side Two 
>today.
>
I know very few here will agree with me on this, but side 2 (The
Remembering) is IMHO the crown jewel of this album.  Sure it's slow, and
barely has drumming.  But it has ATMOSPHERE -- the verses are mantra-like,
the acoustic guitar parts sublime, and Wakey does his best mellotron/moog
duets, particularly the last one that is so heart wrenching.  One of prog's
finest, emotional moments. Too bad the critics say prog is so heartless...  

On the negative side, though, I saw this whole piece played in Boston
during the 1974 Tales tour, and it was disappointing.  Rick had trouble
with the moog settings (although they sounded fine to me) and he kept
fiddling with the knobs with his right hand while sustaining the mellotron
chords with his left hand.  The result was that only a few of the moog
notes sounded, and then those were choppy.  A pity... :-(  They also played
CttE too slow that night!  Aargh!!

>Wonderful to finally be digging this one!
>(And I do think very well...)
>
"...the truth unveils you silently" Where did he come up with these great
lines?

Marc (not to be confused with Mark the Optimist!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:57:32 -0400
From: Marty Mermelstein 
Subject: gg: FH ONE WAY

From Marty Mermelstein
Marty@Global. Dataart.com

I have both the One way FH original and the Terrapin.
The terrapin is much better and is true to the original. Same mix and
ending drum bit.
The one way is odd as mentioned because of the different mix. The most
striking are
that Derek sings the Kerry parts of Time to Kill and there are some off
key Keyboard parts and missing timing on side one. I cannot remember off
hand which songs.
Did one way ever release the right version and does this make the
original rare.?
When is TOOTW coming out?
I can't wait to get HTM Crafty Hands on CD. This is one of my altime
favorites.
Also, New Tull next month. JT-Dot Com.
Anyone have a date for this and on what label.

Regards,
Marty

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:36:37 +0100
From: Bob Taylor 
Subject: Re: gg: Pavlov was right!

In message <199907280255.WAA23967@radio.bicnet.net>, kiirja
 writes
>>This seems as good a time as any to ask if other people "hear" cuts 
>>before they arrive.  In other words, you know an album so well that when 
>>a cut ends, maybe even BEFORE it does -- you can hear the next one in 
>>your mind.
>Absolutely. It's that Pavlovian reaction! ;-)
>
>I get especially annoyed when I listen to the third movement of 
>Brahms fourth symphony and the next movement doesn't start
>with "Tell the moondog, tell the March hare...."  ;-)
>
>kiirja
>np: Brahms!

Have you tried taking the CD back to the shop?

Bob
- -- 
Bob Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: Re: gg: Pavlov was right! 

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, kiirja wrote:

> >This seems as good a time as any to ask if other people "hear" cuts 
> >before they arrive.  In other words, you know an album so well that when 
> >a cut ends, maybe even BEFORE it does -- you can hear the next one in 
> >your mind.

> Absolutely. It's that Pavlovian reaction! ;-)
> 
> I get especially annoyed when I listen to the third movement of 
> Brahms fourth symphony and the next movement doesn't start
> with "Tell the moondog, tell the March hare...."  ;-)


Or when Horowitz or Andre Watts finishes the slow section of the 
Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto (the Second, isn't it?) and fails to sing 
"When I was young ... I never needed anyone...."

Anybody remember the pop single "Beach Baby" with the horn break from 
Mahler?  At least the Beatles had a producer with sufficient talent to 
imitate Bach instead of steal from him directly for "In My Life."


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:27:53 +0100
From: "Mark L. Potts" 
Subject: gg: RE: Hidden messages

Ay Up!

Not only hidden messages but what about the scratched in cryptic messages on
the run-out groove?

Whatever happened to Porky's Prime Cuts?

You want hidden messages try out The Phantom's Divine Comedy. More hidden
message than music, I'll wager!

Surfing with the Alien,

Mark L. Potts
The God of Thunder

np: Dregs - NYC '81

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:27:51 +0100
From: "Mark L. Potts" 
Subject: gg: RE: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union

> I saw Yes a number of times over the years, starting with Feb. 1972, the
> "Fragile" tour (amazing, BTW), and extending through the Union tour.  I
> thought the Union tour was as good as any I'd seen previously.  It was
> great seeing all the "right" guys playing the "right" parts - didn't have
> to wait for Trevor Rabin to play the solo in "Yours Is No Disgrace", nor
> hear Steve Howe playing "Owner of a Lonely Heart".
>

Actually, I thought I was the only person on the planet who thought the
UNION tour was good.
It was nice that it was "in the round" too. It is not often you get so many
great musicians on a stage at the same time playing songs you love. Have to
agree too that Awaken was stunning when I saw them.

All the band members seemed to be enjoying themselves although, Squire and
Bruford did keep giving each other funny looks. But having seen Squire's
impersonation of Beelzebub on the last tour who knows?!

All this and me agreeing with Rich too. Maybe I'll even understand the
mammierants in future :-)

Surfing with the Alien,

Mark L. Potts
The God of Thunder

np: Bill Nelson's Red Noise - Sound on Sound (OK again - it is twenty years
since I last heard it!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: gg: Re: The Pacific NW GGetogether

On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, Ant wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David J. Loftus 
> 
> 
> >We had a terrific time at Scott Steele's place in the woods near the
> >mouth of the Columbia River Gorge last night.  Scott and Barbara laid 
> >on a huge spread of vittles,
> 
> Did you have to move them off it to eat the stuff?

No.  They added spice.


>  we watched GG concert video footage, and then
> >jammed out on the porch after 11 p.m.
> >Present were confirmed fans Scott, Doug Smith, Ginny and myself, as well
> >as Barbara (everybody will be happy to know she has a new position and is
> >no longer doing evil things to mice, so there's hope for her soul after
> >all), Doug's companion the flautist Judy Koch, and several teens who
> >mostly just flitted through the room at odd moments.
> 
> I bet those teens thought you were a wierd bunch. Did they ask you to turn
> that row down?

Not really.  Scott called one boy's attention to Ray's violin line on one 
of the live pieces -- "On Reflection" or "Funny Ways," I don't remember 
which -- and said this was something he ought to learn.  The other boy, 
Sean, and his girlfriend Brooke chatted with us about seeing Daevid Allen 
expose himself on stage the night before.


> > Scott and I have
> >located three other fans in the Portland area via the Internet
> 
> Ah! that's where I've been going wrong. I have been using a divining rod.

GG's music may be divine, but I'm afraid we fans are not.


> Seriously, it is a buzz to share these moments with fekkow fans aint it?

It sure is  They're the only people who will look at your "Little Brown Bag" 
and "Giant for a Day" lollipop and laugh the RIGHT way.


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:34:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: Re: gg: Fisticuffs Yes! Yes! YES!

On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, Ant wrote:

> Well I never sensed any tension when I saw them on that tour. I 
> expected it but I think Jon Anderson is the great peacemaker of the 
> band. He certainly has been able to heal many rifts down the years.

But can he heel any riffs?  That's the big question.


> I imagined he had convinced everyone that they were friends and that 
> the ego was an ugly thing.

Or maybe he serenaded them with:

"Looking still the same, after all these years,
  Changing only in my memories not clear...."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:37:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Tillman 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP

   From: "Ant" 
   Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:59:35 +0100

   One problem with knobs was that it was hard to reproduce a sound you had
   previously because there were so many variable to remember. ie every knob
   position. One synth player I knew had paper maps of the knobs on his synth
   on which he drew lines to indicate the position of the knob. Didn't ARP
   incorporate some kind of programmable analogue synth which remembered
   settings?

Yeah, all synth players with machines like that drew diagrams.  Or
took Poloroids.  These synths models generally came with a pad of
printed-up panel diagrams so you could just fill in the details.

It's important to remember that these synths were used differently
then.  It's not like today when a keyboard player asks a modern
sampler to romp through several dozen radically different sounds over
the course of tune.  More typically you would use only two or three
"patches" with subtle variations on them for an entire gig, and those
"patches" would be variations on a common base.  (Check out George
Duke playing the ARP Odyssey on his live Zappa material to hear an
expert do this.)

(Now that digital guitar effects boxes are so popular, guitarists are
suffering from the same disease, flying through dozens of cheezy
patches instead of exploring the subtleties and variations of a single
sound setup.  I think it's a very bad thing because the listener loses
all context of the instrument, and without context it becomes just a
collection of funny noises.)

The ARP Soloist, that's the one Tony Banks plays in "Cinima Show", had
non-adjustable presets sort of imitated acoustic instruments.  But
that's not a typical synth.

The ARP Chroma, which was either in the prototype or very early
production stage when the company went out of business, is a
polyphonic synth with programmable patches.  Absolutely one of my
favorites.  Fender/Rhodes then purchased that part of the company and
got the Chroma into production.

  -- Don

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:35:22 +0100
From: Bill OReilly 
Subject: gg: (no-gg) Electric Violin - Dirty Three

>I see someone mentioned Dirty Three, an Aussie band. 
>Can anyone provide more information about thier music style and
>releases?

The style is like a long drive at night along a dirt road in the rain.  Think A
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds  instrumental.  I've only heard one album
but one of their better song's is called "Everything's Fucked" which kind
of gives you an insight into their general attitude.

Not the sort of music I would listen to at the start of the night in a comfy
sofa with friends.  It's more the sort of music you'd reach for at 3am as
you're finishing a bottle of scotch alone, and have started to find Tom
Waits way too commerical and upbeat for your mood.  It's at the other
end of the line from Dave Swarbrick and perhaps in another universe
from Vanessa-Mai.

O'Reilly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:03:29 -0400
From: J Ryan 
Subject: no gg: Rock Violinists...

Hey, has anyone mentioned PFM's Mauro Pagani?

Definately worth repeated listenings....

John Ryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:38:58 -0400
From: "Benson, Tom" 
Subject: gg: RE: nonGG: Rock Violinists

Catching up on a backlog of digests, I see I'm late on the
Rock Violinists question from Gerryy:

> Can anyone recommend any good rock and or jazz violinists
> [besides....

Lots of replies followed, covering most of my favorites...
but I didn't see these "rock" players mentioned -

   David Ragsdale - replaced Steinhardt in recent Kansas (tho
		Robbie's back now. Has a solo album I
		haven't heard, "David and Goliath."
   Hollis Brown - In Ozone Quartet (formerly Cloud 9). Try
		"Fresh Blood."
   Mark Wood - Heavy metal violin... also makes electric violins,
		some with frets, and six strings. I have a couple
		of his CDs - the playing is blazing, but I'm not
		wild about the material.
   Mauro Pagani - from PFM. What more needs to be said?
   Nash The Slash - From FM, and several solos.

I wouldn't be so presumptious as to include myself, tho you
can hear me on the GG tribute albums. 8^)

A couple of great places for non-classical violinist info:

  Bowed Electricity - has lots of player info, and some sound
  samples, as well as instrument and maker information:

        http://www.digitalrain.net/bowed/

  Mark Chung's Jazz Strings page - has lots more jazz players
  listed, as well as info about new releases, etc:

        http://shoko.calarts.edu/~chung/jazzviolin.html

Tom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:14:12 +0200
From: "Fred Rosenkamp" 
Subject: Re: (kindof)nongg: Conceptualism in a nutshell

Diana wrote:

>A concept album with no
>story? what a concept!


:-)
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:19:23 -0700
From: "Ben Littauer" 
Subject: gg: Concept Albums & TFTO

I like 3 Friends as a concept album, and would diagree that TFTO is a concept album at all.  It might have been so intended by Anderson et al, but to me the lyrics are just so much nonsense. For me the vocals turn into an interesting muscial instrument that has not only the usual pitch and timbre, but also *imagery*.  I find this instument very well played on TFTO, which is (as I've said in this forum bfore) the greatest prog album of all time.

I take exception with the comment from someone earlier that in order to love TFTO one must buy into the whole Yes spiritual BS.  I don't buy it.

np: LTE2 -- Indeed a great step up from LTE.  Much more lyricism and less wanking.

- -ben-
Ben Littauer
ben_littauer@mailcity.com



Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:04:23 -0400
From: "Gary Citro" 
Subject: gg: Gary Robert Citro

No real message here.

I just got jealous that Julius J. Saroka got his own subject title.

Gary Citro

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:34:54 -0400
From: Tomas 
Subject: Re: gg: Bert is Evil

At 08:27 PM 7/27/1999 -0700, JohnEric wrote:

>I just thought I'd pass this along for the hell of it.  I'm sure many of
>you will not be surprised to learn that Bert is Evil.

I guess the porno banners on the site should have been a dead giveaway that
the author is wacked.

Bert is harmless.

Now, Barney, on the other hand...........


***************************************************************************
* Tomas                      *  "Tolerance is the virtue of the man       *
* West Chazy, NY  USA        *   without convictions."  - GK Chesterton   *
* tomas@slic.com             *   		                          *
***************************************************************************
* Howie Web:       http://www.howies.org/                                 *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:59:49 +0100
From: "Mark L. Potts" 
Subject: RE: gg: (non-gg)Ian McDonald

> >
> > If you like Foreigner, Journey, Bad English (and I do) this
> will not be at
> > all out of place or lack time in the CD player.
> >
> Oh, bleedin' 'eck, then I won't have to bother, will I?
> Foreigner, Journey, Bad English?...that's like...eating a dog turd and
actually saying it
> tastes nice!  YUK!!! (and no, I haven't tried one!). Come on, be serious,
you
> don't actually mean that, do you? Please, I'm begging you...
> Carsten the Krautmeister

What can I say? I love music. I don't pigeon hole it into this style or that
style. I either like it or I don't.

F'rexample, over the last few months I have been to see - and thoroughly
enjoyed - live shows by:

KISS, Edwin Starr, John Wetton, Aerosmith, The Dells, Robert Cray, Thunder,
BB King, Mike Oldfield, Al Green, Ian Hunter and not forgetting The
Legendary Manband, many of these.

You can't get much more diametrically opposed than Man and The Dells but I
love em both. As for Journey etc, they are fine musicians and they make/made
a sound that I like to hear when I'm in a certain mood.

Ironically, I saw Foreigner at the Gruga Halle on the 4 tour!! Ha!

In the Heat of the Night,

Mark L. Potts
The God of Thunder

np: Alice Cooper - Schools Out

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:35:11 -0400
From: "Yurchison, Gerry" 
Subject: gg: [No GG] Jethro Tull

For news on the new upcoming Jethro Tull release " J-Tull dot com", see
	
		http://www.j-tull.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:04:28 PDT
From: "Alan Benjamin" 
Subject: gg: two more rock violinists & some excellent concept albums

Greetings,

Two more impressive rock (or rock-ish) violinists that I haven't seen 
mentioned yet:

  Aska Kaneko
  Kuba (from the band Pazop)

Although impossible to find in the US, Aska's _Multi-Venus_ is one of the 
most interesting (and varied) violin-based CDs I've heard in a very long 
time. In case anyone is interested in trying to hunt down a copy, it is on 
the Roux label (Japan), catalog #VICL-337--and was released in 1992. Kazumi 
Watanabe is on a few tracks, by the way.

As to the recent "Concept Album" debate, I believe that there are several 
excellent ones out there. For example:

  BANCO - ...di terra
  BIRTH CONTROL - Backdoor Possibilities
  CAMEL - (music inspired by) The Snow Goose
  CAMEL - Dust and Dreams
  GENTLE GIANT - Three Friends
  GRYPHON - Red Queen to Gryphon Three
  JETHRO TULL - A Passion Play
  STERN-COMBO MEISSEN - Weisses Gold
  STERN MEISSEN - Reise zum Mittelpunkt des Menschen

Although I find _TfTO_ to be mostly enjoyable, there does seem to be a lot 
of filler involved. It's one of those albums where I am psyched to get to 
the "good parts." And, to be even less popular than before, I must confess 
that most of the music on the _Lamb_ bores me to tears--although I think the 
album works well from a purely conceptual perspective. (Sometime concept and 
music just don't mix well, IMHO.) Also, _The Power and the Glory_ just 
doesn't feel like a concept album to me--which is why it was left off of the 
list.

Lastly, I felt challenged to find at least an entry or two that could be 
submitted to the "double studio albums (or long CDs) that are excellent from 
start to finish without any filler" thread--to which I offer the following:

  CHICK COREA - My Spanish Heart
  ECHOLYN - As the World

While the latter doesn't quite clock in at 80 minutes (I only know of one CD 
that does), it is up there in the double-album length.

Remember that these are only my opinions, so please try to keep the bashing 
down to a civilized level. :-)

Take it easy,


Alan


- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Benjamin
e-mail: adbenjamin@earthlink.net
Advent Home Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~adbenjamin/advent.html
- -------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:56:50 -0400
From: "dr" 
Subject: gg: Re: Fisticuffs Yes! Yes! YES!

- -----Message d'origine-----
De : Ant 
À : casglatze ; mmazzo@dreamscape.com

Cc : on-reflection@lists.uoregon.edu 
Date : 28 juillet, 1999 08:24
Objet : gg: Fisticuffs Yes! Yes! YES!


>Well I never sensed any tension when I saw them on that tour. I expected it
>but I think Jon Anderson is the great peacemaker of the band. He certainly
>has been able to heal many rifts down the years. I imagined he had
convinced
>everyone that they were friends and that the ego was an ugly thing.
>
>Ant


When Yes played in Quebec City on that tour (i.e. Union)
1- Squire sang only parts of the backing vocals (half-heartedly) and acted
as though he was not really interested in what was going on ( except for
Your move/All good people).
2-Bruford spent most of his time hitting his monitor with a drumstick in
desparation. He also spent most of the day before the concert telling
drummer jokes to the local crew as they were the only ones pay attention to
him.
3-Wakeman created a fuss by publicly saying a couple of nasty things about
the intelligence of French Canadians. He also refused to have his dressing
room in the same part of the amphitheater as the others.
4-Steve Howe did not come back on stage for the encore, so we had Trevor
Rabin doing the solo in 'Starship Trooper'.

It probably was just a bad night for the guys and the crew, but a friend of
mine who worked on the local crew  was quite pissed off after the show...
DR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:27:35 EDT
From: SHudson653@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: RE: you can't touch me, I'm part of the Union

Hudman delurking to voice support for the Union tour... I liked it a lot    
and thought they pulled off a difficult concept.... 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:15:44 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: nongg: Hammill vs. GG  Genesis and The Who, concept-wise

In a message dated 7/28/99 1:58:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time, SPBrader writes:

<< Claudio writes:
 
 << Well, a bunch of songs about a romantic breakup doesn't qualify as a 
"concept" album...does it?  >>
 
 As much as a bunch of songs about the adventures of a guy named Rael or the 
fate of three schoolfriends or a deaf dumb and blind kid ;-) >>

But the latter ideas were preconceived.  The former was a reaction.  That's 
where I make the distinction.  

Claudio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:55:14 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP (& Moog too)

In a message dated 7/28/99 6:07:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, 
anton@musicnut.freeserve.co.uk writes:

<<  One synth player I knew had paper maps of the knobs on his synth
 on which he drew lines to indicate the position of the knob. >>

Ever the obsessive/compulsive, I had a "set-up sheet" for every song 
including knob settings on the mini-Moog, stop positions for the Hammond, 
switch settings for the String Synth and knob settings for both the flanger 
and phase shifter.  I'm not sure, but it may have had something to do with 
Short-term Memory Loss at the time...

Claudio
n.d. Spanish Peaks Yellowstone Pale Ale
n.p. Astros/Rockies Game 3.  I'm a masochist, but what a homer...wait till 
Football season!!!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:00:12 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: Hidden messages

In a message dated 7/28/99 3:44:10 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dshur@erols.com 
writes:

<< Anyone have other hidden messages?  >>

No hidden messages, but I've got a few where the music continues into the 
catch-groove (always on Side B).  Magma was especially memorable.  Also the 
etchings in the vinyl close to the label.  I've seen some hilarious things 
there!

Claudio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:09:34 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: nongg: short stories vs. novels

In a message dated 7/27/99 10:24:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
drj_saro@neo.rr.com writes:

<< so i wondered where would these "side long epics"
 fit in to the literary analogy....and i still sort of wonder, if the "epics"
 are short stories, then what are the other songs?

Breaking new ground here, but the "concept album" might be considered an 
epic, the "side long" a tale, the "shorter piece" a story.

<< ("Supper's Ready" and "Lighthouse-keepers" seem to have an interesting
 inter-relationship, or is it just me?) >>

Wow!  Being somewhat dense (like a Colorado Pine forest where you can't see 
the sun at noon...) I just got this.  It's not just you.  Nice call!

Claudio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:09:36 -0400
From: Daniel Potvin 
Subject: gg: TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS

     Tales from topographic oceans an epic work was released by YES in 74 
     a 2 record set, tales featured four long-form compositions " revealing science of god "
     " the remembering " " the ancient " and " ritual " - one track on each of its four sides.

     Tales based upon teachings found in " autobiography of a yogi, " and was written
     during the " close to the edge " world tour.

     The band took the album on the road for another full scale world tour,
     following the tour for " tales " Rick decided it was time for a breather away from YES.

     Patrick Moraz joined the band and played on the " relayer " album. YES popularity 
     continued to soar as did their concert drawing capacity, an estimated 100,000 people
     jammed in philadelphia's JFK stadium for a series of sold out shows in the summer of 76.

 
    
    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 99 22:33:42 -0400
From: kiirja 
Subject: Re: gg: three patch sheets to the wind

>>Didn't ARP
>>incorporate some kind of programmable analogue synth which remembered
>>settings?
>
>Not for a long time after the 2600, they didn't.....if they did at all,
>that is.
The Performer had pre-sets for different instrument sounds...some
were reasonably good, some were really tacky! ;-)

The Axxe, Odyssey, Avatar, Omni, 2600 (and related models) all 
required manual settings. The 2600 series required patch cords. 
Star with a square, sine, or sawtooth waveform, then modulate in 
various ways (pitch amplitude, waveshape, etc etc) via ADSR, noise, 
or pass-thru filters. We used to wear a dozen or so patch cords around 
our necks all day at work for testing 2600s or to attach one synth to 
another and drive the oscillator from an external source, such as 
sequencer.

The Quadra was an Omni with an Axxe attached, plus I think about 40 
or so pre-sets...it's been so long....my memory could be off on that.
Ask Gary Citro how many there are, I've forgotten and I sent him my 
Quadra owners manual. 

kiirja

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:41:08 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: I must have waited all my life for this . . . 

In a message dated 7/27/99 9:56:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
markwendt@hotmail.com writes:

<< Wonderful to finally be digging this one! >>

And I have to think that your renewed interest is due to reading this digest. 
 Oh, the gems you may find on reflection...Good for you!

Claudio

P.S. Try one time listening to the whole thing start to finish...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:06:14 -0700
From: William Tindall 
Subject: gg: Hidden near the run-out grooves grooves

Hail, oh seekers of hidden mysteries,
	Just off the top of my head, I remember two (well, 3) engraved messages I got a kick out of way back when.  On Eagles, the Eagles first (I think...I'm sure it's not on Desperado which, by the way, is a great concept-album), you may read "He who hesitates is lunch".  That's my favorite.  
	Also fun was The Tubes' first: "'This is the 34th time I have lied to the nation"----Al" on side one, and on side two, "Don't you wish you had a baby's arm holding an apple?".
	I found many more, but they're forgotten in the mists of the present.

Bill T


"All pings must last"

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 99 23:08:23 -0400
From: kiirja 
Subject: gg: Re: The Golden Days of ARP 

>Well I thought the 28 minute jam on LTE1 was pretty inspired and the whole
>album is, apart from a few slightly weak ideas, quite impressive having been
>composed and recorded in a week.
Oh I agree that LTE1 is great stuff, especially considering the 
circumstances
in which it was recorded. If you think 1 is great, 2 will knock your 
socks off! 

>>There was a turnpot in each machine which I tuned by beating
>>the frequency against a tuning fork  which I held in my teeth.
>>(Ah, I love high tech!) I checked all the slide pots to make sure there
>>were no skips and that they incremented logrythmically.
>
>By ear!???
yep. I checked everything on every instrument by ear.  
Then after work, I'd be over at someones house and 
I'd annoy the heck out of them because I'd complain
their turntables were going too fast or too slow. 
Well it drove me crazy....what can I say?  ;-)

I bought a new tuning fork the other day and it's off by
three cycles! Argh!

"eagle ears" kiirja

np-- finneus gauge: one inch of the fall
rp-- IQ: Ever
soon to play: more of those annoying mixolydian scales on guitar
*with* the proper fingerings this time...sigh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:11:14 -0400
From: "David and Stacey Shur" 
Subject: gg: Days of ARP  & Moog

I did what Wakeman did apparently- couldn't bother with drawing.  I tried to
memorize what I could- the rest of the time, I fiddled inbetween chords,
scales, whatever.   Most of the time, it sounded good.  Most of the
time......Damn audio generators......   -David Eric

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:25:03 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: nongg:(if you don't count a Shulman) violinists

So I've been watching this thread for several days and I'm somewhat perplexed 
(okay, I'm like that 24/7) that Jean-luc Ponty's name hasn't come up.  Okay, 
so not really "rock", but certainly fusion, and I've seen Grapelli's name in 
here as well as Urbaniak...

So he sold out. Who could blame him?  You take a sculpted piece of wood in 
one hand and a bunch of cat gut in the other and see how far you'll get.  His 
"Sonata Erotica"(72), "Upon the Wings of Music" (75) and the classic "Aurora" 
(76) have to be absolutely seminal modern violin works.  Not to mention his 
collaboration w/Grapelli.  Did I miss a post or two?  It wouldn't be the 
first time. AOL hates me...

The truth be known, I really hated the plexiglass violin period, but I still 
remember the good stuff...

Claudio
n.d. yes but it's not helping
n.p. The Astros kicking the Rockies' butts again. Man, this is getting old...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:07:55 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: nongg: Pink Floyd and my progeny

This is worth noting as one of the best moments in a parent's life.

My son just visited the CD store looking for more of HIS kind of music.  Then 
he saw this issue which he knew his dear old Dad would appreciate (and more 
importantly, reimburse him for)...Pink Floyd "Ummagumma" 2CD set. The 
copyright says 1994 but I've never seen it, and actually gave him both a hug 
and a high-5.  An amazing Father-Son moment.  Has this really been around for 
5 years?

Must've done something right somewhere...

Claudio

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:45:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: JohnEric 
Subject: gg: Re: NW GGetogether Diner location

All went well.  Thanks for coordinating!  See you later.  I do wish Jan
and I could have caught Scott's band.

JEE

- --- "David J. Loftus"  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, JohnEric wrote:
> 
> > Have you settled on a place to meet for diner?  My wife and I will
> both
> > attend, if it's in Portland -- around 6ish.
> > 
> > JEE
> 
> 
> Since all your posts have come after 5 p.m., I assume you can only post 
> (and read posts) from a private line after work, so I'll call you at
> work 
> this morning, but just in case, we're working on it.  If nothing gells, 
> I'll meet you for dinner myself.
> 
> 
> David
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: JohnEric 
Subject: Re: gg: Tales ... the final vibration?

I don't feel it contradicts the Christian faith ... this takes a broad
stroke approach with spiritual generalities that people can plug into in
what ever way they like.  I don't believe it was intended to convict.

JEE

- --- Tomas  wrote:
> At 08:17 PM 7/27/1999 -0700, JohnEric wrote:
> 
> >If ya'll will permit me, I'd like to encapsulate the "Tales..."
> >controversy with an end-statement.  Those that enjoy TFTO tend to get
> into
> >the overall spiritual nature of the project.  The so-called "filler"
> >allows time for the mind to drift and meditate.  Those that dislike the
> >album want a tight concept album that cuts right to the point, or
> points. 
> >It's a mind thing vs. a spiritual thing.
> 
> Couldn't disagree more, at least for me.  As a Christian, I certainly
> don't
> get into the overall spiritual nature of the music.  I'm there for the
> music, for the mind thing, and I don't think there's a bit of filler on
> it.
>  It's a great album.
> 
> I don't think I would want to see Jon cut it down for re-issue.  It
> would
> be an interesting intellectual exercise, but I think the music would
> suffer
> greatly.
> 
> 
>
***************************************************************************
> * Tomas                      *  "Tolerance is the virtue of the man     
>  *
> * West Chazy, NY  USA        *   without convictions."  - GK Chesterton 
>  *
> * tomas@slic.com             *   		                          *
>
***************************************************************************
> * Howie Web:       http://www.howies.org/                               
>  *
>
***************************************************************************
> 


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------------------------------

End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1790
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