CHRISTIAN NONDUALITY

 

From Nicholas of Cusa:

 

"I have found the place where one can find Thee undisguised. It is surrounded by the coincidence of opposites. This is the wall of Paradise in which Thou dwellest. Its gate is guarded by the “highest spirit of reason”. Unless one overcomes it, the entrance will not open. On the other side of the wall of the coincidence of opposites one can see Thee, on this side never."

 

The coincidence of opposites is a certain kind of unity perceived as coincidence, a unity of contrarieties overcoming opposition by convergence without destroying or merely blending the constituent elements. Although in once sense not obliterated, in another the constituent elements shed their multiple, differentiated status. Examples would include the coincidence of rest and motion, past and future, diversity and identity, inequality and equality, and divisibility and simplicity.

 

... coincidence does not really describe God. Rather it sets forth the way God works, the order of things in relation to God and to each other, and the manner by which humans may approach and abide in God. God is beyond the realm of contradictories. God ... preceded opposites, is undifferentiated, not other, incomparable, and without opposite, precedes distinctions, opposition, contrariety, and contradiction.

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What Nicholas of Cusa describes regarding the coincidentia oppositorum is very reminiscent of the type of nuance we find in semiotic theory vis a vis the principles of excluded middle and noncontradiction and when they hold and when they fold. It is also found in all approaches to the univocity and equivocity and analogy of being, whether of Scotus or Aquinas. It is found in early Dionysian logic, in Meister Eckhart and in the modern American Pragmatism of Charles Sanders Peirce. I first learned of it from the teachings of Richard Rohr. It resonates with my own Franciscan sensibilities, incarnational imagination and appreciation for Scotus. I elaborate on all of this here at Johnboy’s Homepage.

 

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I like what Fr. Rohr says here:

quote:


"The Secret" which is now gaining popularity in the USA, is probably a classic example of something that is partially true, and even good, being made into the only lens through which you read reality, and then it becomes untrue. Heresy could be defined as when we absolutize a partial truth, and I believe that is what is happening here. But I would also love for Christians to learn the partial truth, and that is why we teach the contemplative mind here.


 

And he says this in the context of speaking against Gnosticism and for Incarnationalism, which is our portal to the Divine via the particular, the concrete, the physical ... even the sad and painful. That's what we'd expect from a good Franciscan, n'est pas?

 

Fr. Rohr also wrote:

quote:


We are also preaching to a largely secular world, and must find a language
that they can understand and draw from, as Paul did, and not insist that they learn
our vocabulary before we can even talk to them or hear them. How else can we ever
be “all things to all people” (1 Corinthians 9:22) or dare to think that we can “preach
the Gospel to all creation” (Mark 16:16)?
Center


 

I think he is right on in what he is saying here. At the same time, we must take great care, semiotically and semantically, to make sure that the terms, categories and logic employed by any vocabulary of choice in our dialogue are referencing and describing the same realities, hence my ongoing emphasis on the need for deliberate disambiguation, careful parsing, high nuance, rigorous definition and suitable logic or grammar.

From THE PARADOX OF NON-DUALITY by Fr. Thomas Keating, OCSO

quote:


The state of non-duality is addressed in most of the advanced spiritual traditions
of the world religions. It is sometimes referred to as No Self or Emptiness, as in Buddhism. It refers to the death of the false self or ego and the diminishment or extinction of the separate self sense, along with the abiding sense of unity with Ultimate Reality.


 

My first reading of Keating was that he was facilely mapping one set of experiences over another without much rigor, disambiguation or parsing. Looking more closely, I feel safe in attributing an epistemic stance to him rather than an ontological perspective because I can glean that from within the context of other things he wrote in that same article and other things he's written over the years.

It is not just a distinction between an epistemic stance and an ontological perspective, which is crucial, it is also a matter of distinguishing between states, structures and stages that, on one hand, ordinarily correlate (which I think it is fair to say) or, on the other hand, necessarily indicate (which would be patently absurd) one transformative or unitive level or another.

 

I conceive of the False Self as the persona, which is a good and necessary thing, just not a sufficient thing for completing the transformative journey. We go beyond it but not without it. The No Self is not, then, the True Self that follows the development of the persona on our journey of individuation and transformation. The No Self is, rather, an experience of nondual awareness, of absolute unitary being. It may be, though, that this No Self experience is correlated with the journey to True Self. We find them together, often.

 

quote:


Non-duality is clearly a state beyond what is called in the Christian contemplative tradition “Transforming Union.” The Cistercians, Franciscans, Carmelites, and other religious groups have described this state as “bridal mysticism.”


 

Nondual awareness is a metaphysical intuition, not a state of virtue or level of transformation. It is, rather, value-neutral, in fact. Now, again, it may be that it is well-correlated with this state of virtue.

 

quote:


The unifying force of divine love draws and unites the soul into ineffable experiences of union with the Beloved and forgetfulness of self. They remain two however.


 

This seems quite alright vis a vis a spousal or bridal mysticism, in and of itself, which should not otherwise be equated with nondual states of awareness but might well be highly correlated with experiences of same. It is preferable to other formulations of No Self, which annihilate the ego, self or even personhood.

 

quote:


St. John of the Cross in the “Living Flame of Love” hints at higher states of union, but is not explicit. Some of the Beguines of the 12th and 13th centuries wrote explicitly of the Transforming Union as initiating a further journey into states of unity consciousness that parallel the descriptions of no self or enlightenment found in Buddhism, Advaitic Vedanta, or Sufi literature. Here there is no self at all.


 

We must be clear as to whether or not we are talking about a fleeting epistemic experience or an ontological reality. Keating properly speaks in epistemic terms is my take.

 

quote:


Perhaps it might be useful to orient practitioners to the paradox of living a life that is neither dual nor non-dual, just as some spiritual traditions affirm that the Absolute is not this, not that—or similar to the statement, not one, not two. These paradoxes point to
the fact that God is beyond all that exists and beyond all categories of being and non-being, as well as in all that exists.


 

I rather like that.

It seems clear that Fr. Keating talks in terms of awareness or a sense of this or that, which is to say in epistemic terms, but does not commit the metaphysical category errors of others who make sweeping ontological & metaphysical claims. He affirms the dialectic between apophatic and kataphatic, nondual and dual (and transdual).

When I say tertradalectical, I mean to nurture the interplay, for example, of sensation, intuition, thinking and feeling; or between the empirical, rational, practical and relational; or between the subjective, objective, intersubjective and interobjective; or between the descriptive, prescriptive, interpretive and evaluative; or between the positivist, philosophic, theistic and theotic; or between truth, beauty, goodness and unity; or between creed, cult, code and community and so on. These different approaches, faculties, sensibilities and methodologies are not each holonic (the Wilber mistake that leads to arational gnosticism) but are tetradically holistic. That one correction to Wilber cures a host of ills, I believe. At any rate, I sense that Keating and Rohr definitely get this aspect right.

Fr. Keating wrote:

quote:


Non-duality is clearly a state beyond what is called in the Christian contemplative tradition “Transforming Union.” The Cistercians, Franciscans, Carmelites, and other religious groups have described this state as “bridal mysticism.” It involves the union of love with God in which the will and intellect are united to God, whether in interior trials such as the feeling of God’s absence or the delights of mature, apophatic contemplation. The unifying force of divine love draws and unites the soul into ineffable experiences of union with the Beloved and forgetfulness of self.


 

Metaphorically, the way I have received this all is that, this nondual self-forgetfulness is an ecstatic journey on which we venture and from which we return, again and again and again. This bridal mysticism is nothing less than Divine intercourse of those otherwise already joined in Mystical Union. To be metaphorically explicit, it is the difference between Marriage and the Marriage Bed.

Bernard of Clairvaux

On the Song of Songs

But notice that in spiritual marriage there are two kinds of birth, and thus two kinds of offspring, though not opposite. For spiritual persons, like holy mothers, may bring souls to birth by preaching, or may give birth to spiritual insights by meditation. In this latter kind of birth the soul leaves even its bodily senses and is separated from them, so that in her awareness of the Word she is not aware of herself. This happens when the mind is enraptured by the unutterable sweetness of the Word, so that it withdraws, or rather is transported, and escapes from itself to enjoy the Word. The soul is affected in one way when it is made fruitful by the Word, in another when it enjoys the Word: in the one it is considering the needs of its neighbor; in the other it is allured by the sweetness of the Word. A mother is happy in her child; a bride is even happier in her bridegroom's embrace. The children are dear, they are the pledge of his love, but his kisses give her greater pleasure. It is good to save many souls, but there is far more pleasure in going aside to be with the Word. But when does this happen and for how long? It is sweet intercourse, but lasts a short time and is experienced rarely! This is what I spoke of before, when I said that the final reason for the soul to seek the Word was to enjoy him in bliss.

See this story of one journeyer.

As Fr. Keating once explained in response to a questionnaire:

quote:


There is no way to accurately judge when a person has moved from Centering Prayer with its minimal effort towards consent and surrender to God's presence, to a state of infused contemplation where the Holy Spirit is fully directing the prayer or "praying us." There are some signs, but no distinct states discernable to ordinary human discrimination. Those who are faithful to the practice of CP gradually give up the need to know "where they are" and learn to surrender more and more to what God wants to have happen.


 

So, for all the talk of stages and levels and ways regarding the transformative journey, it is good counsel to give up the need to know where we are or where others are on this journey for there is no way to accurately judge such things. It is important, in my view, to draw a distinction between phenomenal states and psychic structures, on one hand, and transformative stages and levels of virtue, on the other hand. It is enough to know that they can often be highly correlated but important to know that they are not necessarily otherwise truly indicative one of the other. Some are given glimpses. Some experiences are fleeting and transitory. Others are more perduring. All is unmerited and freely given by God for reasons known to Him alone.

This is how I would conceive any state beyond transforming union. This is clearly, in St. Bernard's view, a matter of experience, a type of awareness, an affective moment, an epistemic value-realization and not, rather, a perduring ontological reality.

The following is an excerpt from an introduction to St. Bernard's Sermons on the Song of Songs by Prof. Katherine Gill for her courses at Yale Divinity School and Boston College:

quote:


Sermon 52 illustrates Bernard's conviction that contemplation is a foretaste of heaven and a mystical (bridal) sleep that vivifies the mystical senses. But he also viewed it as a type of ecstatic dying to the world and as an apophatic, imageless-therefore, "angelic"contemplation of God. For St. John of the Cross, bridal sleep is the most apostolic work a person can do for the Church, because therein a person does what he or she was created for: to love and to be loved.

The selected text from Sermon 74 is one of the most stunning attempts in the entire Christian mystical tradition to describe the mystical experience. When the Word invades the soul, he cannot be perceived by the senses. However, the heart, or the person's deepest center, suddenly becomes alive and its most secret faults are disclosed. When the Word leaves, it is like a boiling pot removed from the stove. The Life of the soul's life seems to have disappeared.

Sermons 83 and 85 describe spiritual marriage and spiritual fecundity. The Word actually takes the soul as his bride, and two become one in spirit, yet remain two. Spousal mysticism emphasizes a differentiated unity. In other words, love actually makes two one, but also enhances personal identity. Love makes the soul equal to God, God by participation, but not simply God. Also, Bernard emphasizes that bridal love loves God for his own sake. Although as bride, the soul desires the Bridegroom's embrace, as mother she loves her children, that is, her neighbor.

 

We must honor the distinction between a mystical experience, on one hand, and a level or degree or stage or state of sanctity or virtue or perfect charity, otoh. Sure, there are manifold and multiform phenomenal states, psychic phenomena or experiences that can be correlated with whether or not one is on the purgative or illuminative way, whether one is in this or that interior mansion, whether one is at base camp or the summit of Mt. Carmel.

When speaking epistemically, especially of nonduality, a state would be temporary, an epistemological structure, or if you prefer stage, would be more permanent, which is to recognize a type of nondual consciousness that is not so much an experience per se as it is, instead, a way of perceiving reality.

Of course, there is another notion of nondual realization, not of an experience or perception or type of awareness, in which case the state of one's consciousness doesn't matter: nonduality is just there to see. And it does seem to me that a good panentheist might figure this out through philosophical contemplation, someone else through an intuition of being, still another through a kundalini experience, yet another through enlightenment. If Keating indeed follows Wilber's take, this is all a nondual state entails.

At any rate, there is more to this stage paradigm than just the experiential aspect; when speaking of the transforming union we are talking not just about phenomenal experiences but habitual virtue, increased charity & sanctifying grace, preservation from mortal sin and general avoidance of venial sin and so on.

 

Mystical ecstasy is a type of nonduality, but does not exhaust that reality. Keating speaks of the transient nature of such ecstasy as is associated with bridal mysticism. I do not interpret him to be suggesting that this is what becomes permanent. Rather, at this point, I'd suspect he thinks in terms of nondual realization, an epistemological structure, whether one thinks of that in terms of a perduring unitive consciousness (or way of perceiving reality), or, as Wilber would (and Keating leans on Wilber), nondual realization, which doesn't require any form of consciousness per se.

 

quote:


johnboy:
... nonduality is just there to see. And it does seem to me that a good panentheist might figure this out through philosophical contemplation ...


Now, this may seem to leave a question begging ... of why, when it comes to nonduality, so many go the pantheistic route, or, worse, the materialist monist route, or maybe not as bad, the idealist monist route, rather than the panentheist route. And I'm just going to leave this here as a footnote. The reason is, in my view, that they have not seen the wisdom of Dionysian logic, as has a modern counterpart in the semiotic approach of Charles Sanders Peirce; or they have not been exposed to a dialogue between the univocity and analogy of being, of Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas. Or, they just don't know how to get around the seeming inviolability of the principle of noncontradiction.

The answer lies in the coincidentia oppositorum of Nicholas of Cusa.


The closest thing in Christianity to the way I usually hear "nondual" being used is "union," which presupposes an intimacy between two-in-love. There's nothing in Christianity about the soul and God being one and the same thing. Of course, it would take extensive dialogue to know if that's what the Easterners intend to be saying, as, in some traditions like Buddhism, the terms soul and God aren't used (and it's a strain to find conceptual equivalents). Hinduism's Atman and Brahman are closer, but, in the end, these turn out to be one and the same. So, no -- Christianity's doctrine of creation is rather unique.

We should note, here, that BR doesn't use the term "nondual" and it's not what she means to be saying by no-self. For her, no-self signifies the extinguishing of human consciousness, which is a prelude to the discovery of what lies beyond.
 


Posted by johnboy (Member # 31) on 03 July, 2008 10:00 PM:
 

quote:


Originally posted by Phil:
The closest thing in Christianity to the way I usually hear "nondual" being used is "union," which presupposes an intimacy between two-in-love. There's nothing in Christianity about the soul and God being one and the same thing. Of course, it would take extensive dialogue ...


Defining everything that one might mean by nondual is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

When it comes to a theism properly conceived, which excludes atheism, pantheism and other nontheistic traditions, I think the big divide, theologically, precisely has to do with defining our relationship to ultimate reality.

It has always seemed to me that, when talking about God, some people equate our unitive striving in terms of a journey toward intimacy, or even more plainly put, as a transformation from what might start out as a merely functional relationship into a purely personal relationship. It has to do, then, with getting closer.

Others conceive of this unitive striving as a dance between relationship and identity, as a journey from intersubjectivity into absolute subjectivity. Some affirm this intersubjectivity and then strive to transform it into absolute subjectivity; others see this intersubjectivity as an illusion.

There is nothing in the Christian tradition that corresponds to this second type of unitive striving. Anyone who suggests this isn't so much being a heretic as they are just plain being silly.

Now, it is possible to conceive of God, philosophically, as mostly in a functional relationship with creation, so there are other ways to be theistic without relating to the Creator as Abba or as in bridal mysticism. This isn't an option for the Christian. If Jesus revealed anything, then He revealed an actively involved and deeply caring God, building on the Hebrew experience. (Of course, let's not forget the Song of Songs, either). Thus, He taught us to pray, Our Father ...

Aside from these distinctly theological concerns, nondual has different meanings that pertain to 1) psychological states: altered states of consciousness, ecstasy 2) epistemological states and structures: nondiscursive, preconceptual and transconceptual awareness; avoidance of subject-object cleavage; epistemic vagueness; nominalism & essentialism 3) linguistic and semiotic approaches: Dionysian logic, semantical vagueness, triadic semiotic grammar; deconstruction strategies 4) metaphysical & ontological theories: idealist and materialist monisms; aristotelian hylomorphism; ontological vagueness; modal ontology 5) philosophical: false dichotomies; binary logic; dualistic conceptions 6) ascetical practices & spiritual disciplines of all sorts, what we might call spiritual technology

It is not important to understand what each item in the above inventory means. It should demonstrate the difficulty in disambiguating the term. Beside, I wanted to make a little inventory like this for my own reference and your question evoked same.

Finally, there is nothing distinctly nondual, from the standpoint of natural or revealed theology, in Christianity. From the standpoint of ascetical and mystical theology, and formative spirituality, "the nondual" can pop up in any number of places and be successfully integrated. It also presents itself in various scientific, metaphysical, psychological and anthropological considerations and can be appropriated that way, although as Phil pointed out earlier, our theological commitments do make certain claims on these other foci of human concern, mostly at the axiomatic or presuppositional level.

Wise men among us can say all of this so much more succinctly:

quote:


We cultivate the intuition of being by pursuing our deepest inner aspirations that transcend metaphysics itself. The more we situate Zen in this ascent, the better able we will be to let it inspire both metaphysics and Christian mysticism, and be inspired by them in turn. Each is enamored by existence in its own way. The metaphysics of St. Thomas wants to understand it, and to do so, it uses concepts and pushes them to their ultimate limits where they display their innermost nature as reflections of existence. Zen wants to actively embrace existence so it resolutely puts aside all concepts, and in this emptiness finds the way to existence. Christian mysticism wants to be embraced by existence and see revealed in its depths its most intimate face, which is love. There is no reason except our own weakness that prevents all three from sharing with each other the riches they have found in the service of this one Existence, or Nothingness.

Chapter 8: Zen Catholicism? in _God, Zen and the Intuition of Being_ by Jim Arraj


One might look at the nonduality inventory above and ask just how BR's accounts square with it? What categories do her teachings attempt to address or otherwise ignore?

In closing, it seems that, when people are speaking about the nondual in strictly natural theological terms, they are describing ultimate reality in terms of Oneness. When people are speaking about the nondual in these other areas of human concern, nondual need not imply oneness or absoluteness or simplicity; rather, in overcoming two-ness or duality, other strategies present themselves. Think about what these might be before reading on. Use this as a Zen koan. Then, scroll down.
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These other strategies include threeness, fourness, fiveness and so on. Mostly, though, we see people employing triadic and tetradic strategies. Charles Sanders Peirce built a whole philosophical method or grammar on the triadic, bordering on what some have called triadomania. Pseudo-Dionysius and other neo-platonic philosophers and mystics used a triadic grammar, too. Psychology and spirituality is full of tetradic approaches, largely due to our brain quadrants, although our brain functions are much more distributed than many ever thought possible.

To be nondual in tiddly winks, all you have to do is to skip twosies!

 

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When evaluating phenomenal states, psychic structures, psychological stages, Lonergan's conversions and ontological and theological degrees of perfection, we must carefully define their essential nature, inventory the graces that might accompany them and identify their fruits. In other words, we need to draw distinctions, but as Maritain said, in order to unite.

Since grace can build on nature, any epistemic value-realization offers promise, including such as Zen and nondual realization, including such as natural science and natural mysticism. It also offers perils and pitfalls, for, as Richard Rohr says, "something that is partially true, and even good, [can be] made into the only lens through which you read reality, and then it becomes untrue. Heresy could be defined as when we absolutize a partial truth."


Natural science is a partial truth. When it becomes "the only lens through which you read reality ... then it becomes untrue," or what we call scientism.

Natural mysticism is a partial truth, but, when it becomes "the only lens through which you read reality, then it becomes untrue," or what Arraj has called "nondualist imperialism."

Jim writes:

quote:




what does this kind of nondualist imperialism do to Christianity? It eliminates its distinctive nature. Let me be clear about this. Used in this way, Zen awakening, which could be a wonderful gift for Christians, becomes destructive to Christianity.

 


 

Addenda on Keating:

JB, note the influence of BR on Keating in the quote below:

quote:


On the Christian path, God is known first as the personal God, then as the transpersonal God, and finally as the Ultimate Reality beyond all personal and impersonal categories. Since God's existence, knowledge and activity are one, Ultimate Reality is discovered to be That-which-is.


- http://www.centeringprayer.com/Mystery/2easter07.htm

You buy?


This is a prime example of our need to employ Dionysian logic, to embrace the coincidentia oppositorum.

We must distinguish between univocal and equivocal predications of God. We generally cannot employ univocity when speaking of God and creatures, which is to recognize that the words we use to describe humans, like person, for example, cannot be literally predicated of God. There is an equivocity in play in any words we use to describe both God and humans. The way we bridge these distinct realities is to employ, then, analogical predications, which is to affirm that the Trinity is in a relationship LIKE that enjoyed by us a persons.

When we speak of the Mystical Body of Christ or the Cosmic Christ, we speak of an eternal reality and employ such words as body and cosmic, not literally, but analogically. Even when we speak of Jesus in His life on earth, the precise nature of His humanity remains shrouded in mystery and these rules of predication would apply metaphysically. Revelation, though, has literal and historical dimensions (what can I know?), anagogical dimensions (what can I hope for? Last Things?), mystagogical dimensions (how does this all relate? and initiate into mystery), allegorical sense (how is this metaphor sustained?) and the tropological sense (morally and theotically, what must I do?). So, while we cannot say literally and metaphysically how Jesus' essential nature was realized, we can say that spiritually and morally He revealed the fullness of God's Trinitarian Life to us, as well as how we are to respond and what is in store for us.

I think it is fair enough to say that our relationship with God is, in some sense, undeniably personal. As we conceive of the Mystical Body of Christ, there is obviously something transpersonal, that goes beyond our understanding of the personal, which is not employed univocally of God and creatures in the first place. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with also recognizing that the Reality of God cannot be robustly described using any of our human categories for, apophatically, the only literal descriptions we can predicate of God are those statements of what God is not.

What we have, then, in Dionysian logic, is a trialectical (tetradalectical?)interplay between the both/and of apophatic/univocal predications and the kataphatic/equivocal predications, as well as the neither/nor of the unitive subversion of binary logic, hence, dichotomous thinking. Temporally speaking, we also have a tension between what we can experience now vs eschatologically versus proleptically (as though the future were present).

Therefore, when we read this: On the Christian path, God is known first as the personal God, then as the transpersonal God, and finally as the Ultimate Reality beyond all personal and impersonal categories. Since God's existence, knowledge and activity are one, Ultimate Reality is discovered to be That-which-is ...

There is no reason to interpret this in terms of strict binary logic, as either/or dichotomies. It is an initiation into the Dionysian logic of the both/and/neither/nor. All of these references to God are true. We go beyond each but without none. At least, this is the case I made as lead counsel for Meister Eckhart in my prior reincarnation as a canon lawyer.

Theologians distinguish between primary and secondary objects of our beatific vision, and also between essential (subjective and objective) and accidental beatitudes. Keating is describing the essential beatitude, which is God alone, as our primary object, the Divine Essence seen by direct intuition. There are also secondary objects, comprised of all other things of interest to us, including all of the sacred mysteries we ponder now, including the communion of saints, all realities we will encounter as blessings accidental to beatitude: the fulfillment of natural aspirations and the company of Jesus (yes, with memory, understanding and will plus) and one another (yes, with memory, understanding and will plus) all with glorified resurrected bodies, as well as the company of angels and other persons.

For me, self must be identifiable as a person, and that's why I referred to the old classical description of the rational soul by Augustine: memory, understanding & will.

This human memory, understanding and will is analogous to the Trinity. Some metaphysical approaches conceive of a disembodied soul (maybe two-dimensional) and some reject that idea as philosophically suspect. From what I think we know and don't know, it is best, in my view, to remain agnostic on this matter.

What seems obvious is that death terminates human life as we know it, to be clear, both our memory, understanding and will, as rational soul, as well as the rest of our body. Personal immortality is not a metaphysical necessity but our resurrection by God, whatever that entails, is a central element of our belief.

What is true, above, about us as humans, is also true about Jesus as a human. At death, His personal, human self was terminated, in a word, lost. After all, Jesus is true man. The notion of deified self, where Jesus is concerned, doesn't make sense. He was like us in all things but sin, ergo, not in need of deification or theosis; not to mention, He is also true God. Maybe, such a deified self is somehow related to how, as a human, He grew in age and grace, and the more human He became, the more He realized Himself? I dunno.

As true God, a person of the Trinity, we will experience, through direct intuition, as our primary object of beatific vision and essential beatitude, Jesus' essence as God, something to which I can confidently refer but not truly describe.

As true man, we will enjoy as a secondary object of beatific vision and an accidental beatitude, the company of Jesus, in His human nature, with that rational soul's faculties of memory, understanding and will, as a human person, as His self, resurrected by God.

God resurrected that man, Jesus, and I have reason to hope, therefore, he'll resurrect this man johnboy, who is human and a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, also joined to Jesus and others through eucharist, and who is still busy about theosis or deification.

Jesus has a human body, a resurrected body including a self (rational soul w/memory, understanding and will), a glorified body, a presence in the eucharist, a mystical body, a cosmic incarnational presence and is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. The human Jesus' self was sacrificed on the cross. His human existence was terminated, lost. This sacrifice, this death, this termination, this loss, was not final. On the third day ... you know the rest of the story, the Greatest Story Ever Told.

quote:


"Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?"

And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24: 26-27


quote:


But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. Romans 6


Obviously, we can lose our self through death. God can resurrect it. He did Jesus. Without knowing the specific substances or modalities, or processes or events, of resurrection, even without human subjective immortality, which some would consider a dubious metaphysical proposition, we have every reason to believe that God can mediate to human persons our memory, understanding and will from His own ongoing life.

As for this:

quote:


Now it just so happens that what Keating saying about Jesus here is exactly what BR is saying about her journey -- that no-self is the loss of personal self, then on we go on to resurrection, ascenscion, etc. without a self.


 

I see Keating saying that we and Jesus lose this self. I don't hear him denying that we and Jesus get it back. I do hear him affirming that we and Jesus must also go beyond this self, Jesus, for His part, returning to His essence in the Godhead, the primary object of our beatific vision and our essential beatitude; we, for our part, becoming members of the Mystical Body; creation, for its part, the Cosmic Christ. Neither do I hear Keating denying that, as an accidental beatitude, we encounter Jesus' full resurrected humanity as one of the secondary objects of our beatific vision. I do hear Keating emphasizing the primary and essential and not addressing the secondary and accidental but don't find anything inherently wrong in that. That others are perhaps more concerned with that which is secondary and accidental is understandable, but that says more about others and nothing about Keating.

I think everyone is throwing around the term No-self too loosely. Now it has to do with physical death; next it has to do with advaita vedanta; then it has to do with mystical ecstasy; or else with self-forgetfulness; or it has to do with nondual realization or nondual perspective or nondual awareness or nondual enlightenment or temporary nondual phenomenal states or permanent nondual epistemic structures; and let's not forget, whatever it is that BR suggests it might also be.

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In some cases, though, it is not a choice between church teaching and alternate interpretations that's being presented, but, rather, various aspects of a theological reality that are not really in competition, are only in apparent contradiction, which is to recognize that there are different types of paradox (veridical, falsidical, conditional, antinomial -- beyond our scope here).

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To the extent we have been considering nondual realization, alongside other epistemic faculties, properly considered, I have emphasized their holistic relationship and have suggested that all of our epistemic faculties must enjoy an integral interplay, each with the others in every human value-realization (whether dialectical, trialectical, tetradalectical or what have you). Wilber, on the surface, appears to affirm this integrality with his all quadrant, all level approach, but, with no logic or coherence or empirical observations, a priori concludes that the nondual state is "the highest estate imaginable," and, there you have it, the fatal epistemological
ailment Arraj calls "nondualist imperialism."

I have no problem with correlating nondual realization with this or that stage in this or that paradigm, based on some type of empirical observation and rational demonstration of when and why it should emerge now versus later on our journeys of individuation, conversion or perfection, for example. When it does emerge, however it emerges and for whatever reasons, ascetical or philosophical, it must, then, simply take its place as one furnishing among others in our epistemic suite, enjoying an integral interplay in all of our human value-realization pursuits.

If in appropriating Wilber, one finds the nondual realization concept useful as an epistemological structure, more or less permanent, and one buys into an integrally conceived all quadrant-all level epistemic outlook, and one sees some value, even, in his rather emergentist take on the great chain/nest of being, I see no problems, really, in using this gift in our Christian imaginations and modeling attempts.

If what Wilber means by the "highest estate imaginable" is the nondual stance toward reality not conceived as in my account above (and throughout this thread), then we are precisely looking at a "nondualist imperialism." And Christianity cannot appropriate that, and not because it is bad theology. Before that, it is plain and simple bad science coming from an epistemologically bankrupt philosophy.

Daniel Helminiak explicates this problem:
http://www.visionsofdaniel.net/R&HSch4.htm

quote:


More specifically, the flaw in Wilber's presentation is that, in his proposed levels of interior development, he mixes together stages of cognitive development and levels of meditative experience. In the process, he calls "knowledge" what is merely experience, that is, data that could be questioned in a process that could lead to understanding and knowledge but that in themselves are not knowledge. This confounding allows him to place on a single continuum matters that are really very different. In a line he lays out apples after oranges and claims that they belong together since they are all fruits. And, indeed, his levels all do have something or other to do with consciousness. But apples are not a further expression of oranges, and levels of meditative experience are not further stages of cognitive development. As Kelly (1996, p. 20) expresses the matter, "Clearly, the transpersonal 'levels' as a whole are of a completely different order than the ones that 'precede' them [in Wilber's hierarchy]."

Precisely because he adds meditative levels to the list of cognitive stages, Wilber--along with centuries of fuzzy thinking about mysticism--is able to maintain that meditative experiences constitute knowledge. Moreover, since the wildly variably conceived post-formal operational thought marks the passage between the two sets, the claim to knowledge in the later levels easily slips in. Then, in the supposed highest attainment, the Nondual, all the known characteristics of knowledge disappear; all concepts, distinctions, and propositions become irrelevant; but this phenomenon is nonetheless presented as a kind of knowledge. The implication--and explicit claim--is that all distinctions are ultimately irrelevant. I criticized this matter above. My point here is that it continues to control Wilber's theorizing, and it discredits his theorizing for anyone who believes that knowledge and science entail articulate explanation.


 

Later we might flesh out how Zen, properly appropriated, can be a boon rather than a bust for the Christian contemplative. I have described the perils and pitfalls, but do not want to deny the promises, which every Merton student would affirm.

 

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Instead of self and no self, think, for a moment, in terms of noisy self and quiet self

and think of noisy and quiet in terms of emotional energy.

Think of the different ways we grow in authenticity: intellectual, affective, moral, social and religious (Lonergan's conversions) and how growth in one way does not necessarily accompany growth in other ways.

Think of how we can gain clarity of insight about reality, intellectually, sometimes through
inexplicable aha moments of brilliant raw awareness, which bubbles up from our unconscious, sometimes through arduous intellectual and philosophical exertion.

Think of how we grow in emotional maturity and individuation processes, sometimes through gradual and healthy formative upbringing, sometimes from growth brought on by crisis and our successful transcendence of circumstances, suffering and pain .

Think of how we grow in faith and hope and love, sometimes through gradual conversion and formation, sometimes through profoundly moving metanoia experiences, sometimes through liminal experiences that take us away from the ordinary and open us to new encounters .

It seems to me that, while all of these growth processes can be placed in the service of each
other process, our individual paths reveal them to be otherwise quite distinct.

It also seems to me that, once our egos are relieved of the disquiet of emotional energy, our psychic resources are then available to better grow our authenticity such that, for example,

1) intellectually, insights come with greater spontaneous facility and they can be deep and profound and almost otherworldly (novel as they can be in their unconscious origin), gifting us even with enlightenment and nondual intuitions of the unity of being;

2) affectively, our responsivity is more free and spontaneous, less reactionary, more existentially-oriented toward what is life-giving and relationship-enhancing, less neurotically-driven toward what is life-destroying and relationship-detracting, as our unconscious energy is properly ordered away from anger, fear and inordinate desires and toward purified desires and healthy appetites;

3) virtuously, neither hand knows what the other is doing in more authentic love, which flows from the wellsprings of an unconscious that is centered in the things of God, with God, with the love of self for sake of God and the love of God for sake of God, though not without the love of God for sake of self and not without the love of self for sake of self ---

for the self is not metaphysically annihilated, just energetically quieted, affectively speaking

As you know, growth in intellect has never implied, necessarily, emotional growth or other aspects of psychological individuation or human authenticity. And this is true whether our metaphysical insights come through arduous philosophical labor or from spontaneous experiences of unitary being. Neither does emotional maturity necessarily imply growth in theological virtues. And we know from our studies of the saints that the greatest faith, hope and love have been gifted humankind by the simplest of children and the most eccentric of adults.

What will happen to this or that individual who undergoes a loss of the affective ego, a quieting of the noisy self?

We do not know.

It depends on their formation. It depends on their mental health, both due to internal chemical milieu and external circumstantial milieu. It depends on their ascetic disciplines and prayer routines. It depends on their meditation forms and durations. It depends on the One Who infuses mystical contemplation. It depends on where they happen to be on the path of this or that development. This is all way overdetermined.

We do know that psychic structures and phenomenal states are sometimes closely linked to developmental stages, both psychological and spiritual. Sometimes they are not. We do know that such stages, structures and states are often in the service of theological virtue but that sometimes they are not. We do know that what Merton called the false self (or persona) does not disappear but that we learn to go beyond it through transformation.

We do know that our personhood is integral and valued by God and destined for ongoing conversion and authenticity and resurrection along with the quiet self, which remains restless until it rests in Him, alone.

NO SELF, then, is not a level.

NO SELF is not an absorption or annihilation.

The only I that has been removed is the one between the NO and the SElf in the word NOiSE.

Events, as you say, that you encounter and that other people encounter might legitimately be interpreted differently from the standpoint of each person's internal growth in human authenticity (the conversions: intellectual, affective, moral, social and religious). Such events cannot be legitimately interpreted from the standpoint of describing external physical and metaphysical realities, drawing ontological conclusions about creation and the Creator. Such speculation is the domain of the sciences: positivist, normative and practical (including theological science), which are advanced by a community of inquiry according to specific norms.

In a prior post, I mentioned that, due to our being fashioned in the likeness of God, we, even as creatures, enjoy an unfathomable depth dimension, which is to affirm that we can swim in one another's depths forever, too! And, for this reason, the essence of love that we share with one another is also off-limits to our discursive faculties, too. I cannot begin to offer a robust explanatory apologetic for the who, what, when, where, how and why of my love for my children and spouse and extended family and friends. This dimension of relationality transcends anything that I could tender in empirical, rational or practical terms. This does not mean, however, that I have been absorbed into my spouse or children (although sometimes, let me tell you ...)

In closing, you ask: this stated accomplishment of NO SELF is just another trick of the ego?

Why would anyone consider this an accomplishment? In and of itself, as an experience, its origins are manifold and varied. I realize that there is talk in the literature on nonduality of levels and stages and such, but the loss of the affective ego is a value-neutral phenomenon, sometimes indicating health, sometimes disease, sometimes in the service of transformation, sometimes leading to utter confusion as we grapple with various interpretations. As with any alternating consolations and desolations, I think the time-honored spiritual direction is to let go of these things, to discern the movement of the Spirit, to desire and occupy ourselves in prayer, not so much to gain consolations but so as to gain the strength to serve (Teresa).

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In spiritual direction, it can be a thorny task discerning together existential versus psychological issues, or spiritual emergence/emergencies. In psychology, it can be difficult to diagnose depression as organic or reactive. The point is that none of this lends itself to a facile analysis.

But, also, in spiritual direction, suppose, for example, that one goal is to see ourselves as God see us, to employ an Ignatian approach. Or, perhaps our director has us working through our different conceptions of God, our different images of God. In either case, a proper understanding of our self, our false self, our true self, or even our no-self, and a proper understanding of God, and a proper understanding of who we are called to be in relationship to the world, other people, the self, the devil and the Trinity --- will profoundly impact our life of prayer, our worship, our ministry, our fellowship. If we misconceive God as a stern, unforgiving Father-figure, as an eternal policeman, then it will affect all of the above understandings and experiences of self, other, world and God.

If we misconceive the creature-Creator relationship when we come out of a nondual experience, or a no-self experience, then it, too, can profoundly influence all of these other understanding and experiences. This is not just a danger for people immersed in apophatic experiences. We have always recognized that wrongful over- and under-emphases on this or that epistemic capacity can lead to error. For example, an overemphasis on the apophatic and affective can lead to quietism; on the affective and speculative can lead to encratism; on the kataphatic and affective to fideism and pietism; on the kataphatic and speculative to rationalism; and so on and so forth. These encounters are integrally-related. Wrenched out of their context in the whole, they get swollen to madness in their isolation (to borrow a metaphor from CS Lewis). Quietism, arationalism, gnosticism and other insidious -isms are the "fruits" of a tree not planted near living water. But so are rationalism, fideism, pietism, scientism and so on.

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It has been said that we know more than we can tell. And this is true in many ways. Think of kinesthetic intelligence and athletic prowess. Some excellent musicians never learned music theory but can just play, often at very early ages. We can navigate our way around this town or that, but couldn't give directions. There are multiple "intelligences." The same is true for our somatic experience; doctors and nurses use a simple number scale to try to crudely gauge our pain levels. Cardinal Newman described what he called our illative sense. Jung and Maritain addressed our intuitive knowledge. There are parts of our brain that process our phenomenal experience that have few or no linkages with other parts that govern our linguistic faculties. And so on and so forth.

The converse is also manifestly true: We can tell more than we know.. And we see people do this in a thousand mundane ways. Sometimes tentatively. Sometimes dogmatically. And when they traffic in falsifiable claims, sometimes they get caught. But when they traffic in nonfalsifiable claims, often they get away with it.

The only way we can attempt to adjudicate conflicting nonfalsifiable claims is to evaluate them from a pragmatic perspective, cashing out their value in terms of practical significance: If I believe this and act on this, what are the implications? If there are none, then such claims are likely harmless and useless.

Clearly, though, as we discussed previously, our images of God, our beliefs about the Father almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, Jesus Christ, His Son, our Lord, the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, and the communion of saints and forgiveness of sins and the resurrection of the body and life everlasting, the efficacy of sacraments, the exegetical approach to scripture, the contemplative tradition and on and on --- all have tremendous existential import and profound practical implications. How do we pray? To Whom can we go? What can I know? What can I hope for? What must I do?

Because we are dealing with deep mysteries, which we can penetrate but not grasp, which we can partially apprehend but never fully comprehend, much of church dogma is articulated with clear references to but not robust descriptions of these sacred mysteries, which with Mary, we must ponder in our hearts, the essence of contemplation. Our descriptions necessarily remain vague. Earlier on our journeys, our faith is clear but tentative. Later on our transformative paths, universally, the church doctors and mystics report that our faith becomes obscure but certain.

So, we have two criteria for evaluating claims: 1) practical implications for the life of faith and 2) proper articulation of sacred mysteries. And those, in a nutshell, describe what this thread has been about. We have discussed theological claims against time-honored doctrine and related traditions. We have discussed implications for the life of prayer and our walk with the Lord. And, yes, we have approached it with high-fallooting categories and terms, which is helpful in one way, but acknowledge, too, that good old common sense can be even more helpful in many other ways.

This much I know to be true. There is SO much in physics that we have not settled. There is WAY too much in philosophy of mind that remains unanswered. How MUCH MORE, then, metaphysically, regarding consciousness and reality's other givens in terms of primitives, forces and boundaries we simply do not yet know! Ergo, HOW woefully ignorant we are regarding things theological, where our language of the realm is vaguely descriptive even if otherwise robustly referential and relational!!!!! Anyone who supposes they really have consciousness figured out, along with the Great Chain of Being, let me know, and I will forward your theory to those who are busy trying to reconcile gravity and quantum mechanics!

If you hear anyone telling this untellable story, then I suggest you pay no heed. Jesus already issued this injunctive regarding Last Days and such. Who needs mine?

If anyone comes back from an ineffable encounter and effables in clearly descriptive terms, then, by definition, they are telling more than they can tell. Now, I am not saying that the cure for gnosticism is agnosticism. Neither is it the cure for dogmatism. The human epistemic approach is, rather, fallibilist. We move forward in fits and starts as a community of inquiry, a community of believers.

There is no sense in doubting people's experiences or in denying their descriptions of same. There is MUCH to be learned from this wheat of our lives. This is the storytelling that we do at table, eucharistically, when we take and eat such wheat. There is so much that has been added to our fund of spiritual and psychological knowledge from modern day contemplatives and practitioners of various ascetic disciplines.

We simply must not confuse the wheat of these experiences from what can be the chaff of different interpretations of same. Those interpretations are subject to critique. And people are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts -- not empirically, not scientifically, not normatively and philosophically, not metaphysically and not theologically, this last category which must appropriate its analogues and metaphors from the preceding ones. And there is another criterion: if you hear anyone speaking literally about that which can only be referred to analogically, pay no heed. Literal descriptions are logically invalid in orthodox God-talk, except when predicated negatively, which is the whole point of apophatic theology.

Finally, the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Watch for these criteria.

B. Roberts wrote:

quote:


If anyone wonders why John of the Cross and other mystics never talked about No-Self they need only read what Mr. Arraj thinks about No-Self. John of the Cross would have been thrown to the Buddhists, labeled a “natural mystic”, denied God’s supernatural grace, in short, be regarded as un-Christian.


 

No, no, no, not at all!

Merton drew distinctions between East and West in terms of the natural and supernatural, apophatic and kataphatic, existential and theological, impersonal and personal, and immanent and transcendent. As Maritain always said about distinctions, we distinguish in order to unite!

From an incarnational perspective, these distinctions are not to be cashed out in terms of levels of virtue, especially once considering that we are talking about unmerited gifts, all which proceed from the same Giver of all good gifts!

Whether from East or West, as Arraj would put it, every person is in the same existential context called to the same supernatural destiny, but responds to this call in and through the concrete circumstances they find themselves in.

Furthermore, whether from East or West, every contemplative attains to God, whether through emptiness or through an experience of God’s presence!

Finally, whether from East or West, every soul is already elevated by grace, is supernatural and produces supernatural acts attaining to God, whether through apophasis or kataphasis. Arraj does not deny this!

All Jim is doing is articulating an old Thomistic distinction between substance and mode, which is to say that, when it comes to substance, my attainment of God through praying the Psalms and a Hindu experiencing God as led through Kundalini are both supernatural according to substance!

Neither would necessarily be supernatural according to mode, which is only to say they aren’t what we would call infused contemplation. No one is suggesting that infused contemplation is denied anyone by God for reasons of virtue, necessarily; rather, it may not be suitable for reasons of temperament or vocation. That’s all!

B. Roberts continued:

quote:


It seems any Christian who talks about man’s final estate entailing the loss of individuality is going to get thrown out, condemned, or mercifully ignored. Had John of the Cross and others talked about this we’d never have heard of them. Obviously, they knew when to quit. But this is exactly why you will not find No-Self (or what I mean by this) in the works of Christian mystics. Indeed, had I written this book in the Monastery it would never have seen the light of day. For some people in the Church, like Mr. Arraj, No-Self upsets their theological apple-carts. Although No-Self neither contradicts nor changes a single Christian dogma, there’s no denying it is not meant for public consumption. Although No-Self is more orthodox than the orthodox, all people really need know is that they will be transformed into Christ. This knowledge is both sufficient and the Truth. (When they get there they’ll see how wondrously it all works).


 

If such a loss of individuality is to be understood in terms of an ecstatic journeying to and from self-forgetfulness, analogous to ecstasy as it is ordinarily conceived and experienced, differing however in both quality and orders of magnitude, then I could accommodate what might be entailed by this spousal mysticism, which goes beyond, but not without, the unitive state. This would be an epistemic interpretation. And it begins to even put certain numinous experiences of my own in context, even if not perduring past a period of a few years, long ago now.

If this is to be otherwise interpreted ontologically, then someone is telling an untellable story. In the first place, we do not have the science of consciousness, the philosophy of mind or the metaphysics of emergent reality worked out yet, and, even if we did, such a transcendent state could not be spoken of literally, only metaphorically and with weak metaphors at that.

Another thing that I find interesting, or maybe moreso perplexing, is how loose folks can be in their use of the word consciousness. Last I heard, in the Philosophy of Mind, this was still being called the hard problem, notwithstanding Dennett's Consciousness Explained.

I mentioned in a prior post how we can successfully refer to realities that we cannot otherwise successfully describe. And this was in a theological context re: God-talk. This is also true regarding certain physical and metaphysical realities. Before we go too far in describing this or that consciousness theologically, it seems to me that it is necessary that we obtain better descriptions of consciousness philosophically. And those are not to be had just yet.

Consciousness thus remains one of those realities, from both a physical and metaphysical perspective, to which we can successfully refer but which we cannot otherwise robustly describe with any satisfying degree of explanatory adequacy. Concretely, then, for example, does it have some quantum dimension? is it physicalist but nonreductively so? is it epiphenomenal? is it another primitive along side space, time, mass and energy?

Our positivist God-talk, which inhabits the last drawer in the last desk of all metaphysical inquiry, is necessarily vague and analogical, such as in the panentheist take which I set forth in my nonduality thread. This panentheist perspective is not invested in, and in fact is pretty much agnostic and indifferent to, any given philosophy of mind approach. It can live with whatever the scientists and philosophers come up with, eventually, and will simply have a more robust God-analogue when such dust settles, if it ever does.

This is all to suggest that we can get along quite well, theologically, from a merely phenomenological perspective, metaphysically, even as we wait for more knowledge, scientifically. No future discoveries in philosophy of mind will jeopardize our human dignity or the rich tapestry and depthful experiences of our encounters with reality, with others, our world and our God. They will make our God-analogs richer and our tautological arguments more taut vis a vis our grasps of reality.

So, all this talk of consciousness here and consciousness there seems to me to be empirically falsifiable. And, to the extent that it ever is not, it is otherwise nothing but the inhabitation of elaborate tautologies whose conclusions are already buried in the very terms and premises of their arguments, which offer no way to cash out any value in terms of practical significance. It's just people moving abstractions and constructs around in logical formulae that have little or no correspondence to external reality (at least as I have or can, presently, experience same).

I think we can successfully refer to such as global consciousness, for example, from a vague semiotic perspective vis a vis a community of inquiry, but to pretend to have successfully described same in terms of some type of organic evolution or kosmic address specifications is farfetched, like this Wilberian thought, for example: The integral model I am suggesting therefore explicitly includes a corresponding subtle energy at every level of consciousness across the entire spectrum (gross to subtle to causal, or matter to body to mind to soul to spirit).

As I have understood BR vis a vis consciousness, she precisely defines NO SELF as NO CONSCIOUSNESS. Paradoxically, investing, in the end, nothing in consciousness, this opens the backdoor to the arational gnosticism dwelling, which Wilber entered through the frontdoor by investing, in the end, everything in consciousness? There is no critiquing of gnostic knowledge, by definition, especially when it is arational and unmediated? except that, in the end, only orthopraxis will authenticate orthodoxy; we can look for "true glory" and fruits from "true practice," which is love. We certainly wouldn't expect additions to Revelation, or departures from established dogma, both which can be inventoried, such "inventories" requiring a great deal of parsing, disambiguation and nuancing.

I think once we clarify what we think may be going on propositionally, then, we can set all that aside and focus more on what she reports experientially. She has given us a great gift with the generosity of her sharing of these profoundly personal experiences.

Apparently, her own interpretations of same have grown and changed through the years, as would be expected. Our interpretations of her experiences can change, too, through dialogue with other traditions and depthful consideration of our own, through feedback from her.

We needn't make more of this nor less of this than it really is: one pilgrim's story.

I think it would be a mistake to interpret it normatively, as if it could in any way be a map for anyone else. That is not how spiritual autobiographies work. They merely provide hints and clues and touchstones for the journey, letting us know, usually retrospectively, that, sometimes, we have been where others have trod, hence, have no fear. They really do not function to tell us, prospectively, where we are being led or which way to go in order to get there. We already have Scripture & Tradition and a Teaching Office to mediate that type of revelation to us.

For those called by temperament or vocation to a particular life of prayer, such depthful sharing as BR's, regarding some of the promises and pitfalls of experiences such as her own, can provide valuable insight, spiritually and psychologically. It doesn't provide metaphysical and theological revelations, at least not of universal import (vis a vis the norms for interpreting private revelation).

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In a nutshell, what I think happens is that folks extrapolate nondual realizations ontologically, which is not a wholly unwarranted move. One of the very first things a westerner might intuit from such a realization is perhaps how a radically reductionistic materialist monism is just untenable. It is, in fact, the atheist credo.

Never mind that some of us realize this through either common sense or philosophical contemplation, because it has real problems with leaving questions of infinite regress begging, which is why science was largely stillborn in such "cyclical" traditions. So, one can see where this reincarnational intuition came from also.

So, over against any modernist Enlightenment fundamentalism, with its hallmark ontology of materialist monism, some postmodernist fundamentalists assert what they conceive to be a more robust ontology of idealist monism, which is, in fact, the pantheist credo. And some do this through philosophical musing and some through existential realizations. The problem is, however, that the infinite regress question still begs.

Furthermore, this tautology is not taut enough vis a vis our empirical encounters of reality, which is to charge that it is a partial but incomplete truth and equally reductionistic. It does not square, empirically, with self-realization. Nondual realization is not untrue, but is a partial truth. Same for self-realization. How can we marry them? is our charge.

Look at this Wilberian rendition of nondual mind:

quote:


According to the nondual traditions, as this nondual Spirit or Mind "steps down" into the relative, manifest plane, each individual mind or subject remains nonlocally and immediately in touch with other minds or subjects (all the way down), which is why, among other things, knowledge of other minds is possible. Once on the manifest or relative dimension, then the relative forms of intersubjectivity arise (three of which were outlined by de Quincey, and four or five of which I outlined). But all of them can exist primarily because of the nondual ultimate nature of consciousness itself, which is "a singular the plural of which is unknown." This is the final and radical meaning of intersubjectivity (namely, grounded in nondual Spirit), and this is likewise the fourth and ultimate meaning of the mind-body problem and its "solution" (namely, awaking to the one Mind or nondual Spirit, which is "not-two, not-one"). My simple suggestion is that all four or five of these meanings and their solutions ought charitably to be included in any integral approach to these important issues.


Now, juxtapose this with what I wrote earlier:

quote:


And very much at the fore of this all has been a theme of kenosis, the idea of God shrinking back and making ontological room for Creation, in general, and shrinking back even more for us as Created Co-creators, in particular, our memory, understanding and will corresponding Imago Dei-like to the Trinity.

For me, Reality starts off radically nondual and only gets quasi-nondual with the moments of Creation. As individuals we are not only not separated from God vis a vis some creatio continua, as He holds us in existence after creatio ex nihilo (even when we're in mortal sin as St. John of the Cross noted), but we are radically and inextricably intertwined within this Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects, which is what makes us quasi-autonomous.

One might reconceive the final act of self-emptying, death, as a holistically-conceived act of creaturely creation, as a kenotic moment of radical deliverance of our memory, understanding and will -- consciousness or self -- back into the Divine Now of the Matrix, where it is objectively "experienced" by God, Who then re-creates us in yet another kenotic-creative act of His own, mediating this now-divinized objective reality of our memory, understanding and will back into a human but newly ordered body, whether thru a singular resurrective event or thru some dynamic process, eternally of course, not temporally, or some combination uniquely suited to our particular needs.


We are saying the same things, analogously, except that Wilber has robustly described the ultimate nature as subjectivity and I only vaguely refer to it as a nexus of interrelated causes and effects. I refer to God's shrinking back and Wilber speaks of Nondual mind stepping down. What he describes as the manifest or relative dimension, where the relative forms of intersubjectivity arise, I speak of how we Rise less quasi, more autonomous, freedom being the hallmark of love.

Whatever else may be going on, putatively, the idealist monism of the Nondual Mind account is incomplete because it does not sufficiently account for, you guessed it, self, or the attribute I have emphasized as autonomy.

The Wilberian account addresses the quasi vis a vis radical intersubjectivity and I have problems with this move because it is saying more than we can possibly know, telling an untellable story, even though I can see why it wants to reasonably assert same. This ultimate reality is incomprehensible and can only be apprehended in part, which is to say, once again, vaguely referred to but not robustly described.

I also have problems with this move because it is leaving out an account of the self, which, contrastingly, we can describe pretty well from our empirical experiences and rational demonstrations, although some aspects remain immersed in mystery and can only be referred to (such as thru heuristic devices like holistic dualist conceptions of the soul, or nonreductive physicalist accounts of the self). Thus it is that the philosophical remedy for such a pantheist account is a properly nuanced panentheist perspective.

The reason, therefore, that a nondual mind approach is heterodox is grounded in natural theology, more specifically, natural philosophy, and not because of special revelation. It is a simple matter of definitions. If it quacks, it's not a gander.

This all has practical implications, such as what Nancey Murphy set forth. As we speak in terms of autonomy, from a moral theology perspective, where would we draw the lines, for example, between limited dominion and no dominion for this quasiautonomous human created co-creator? in matters of life and death? in matters of health and reproduction? in our social lives? How does this all speak to our theological anthropologies and formative spiritualities? And the methodologies we need to employ beyond simple natural law conceptions to personalist and relationality-responsibility approaches?

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Our interpretive stances are in a recursive feedback loop with the interplay of our positivist, philosophic, normative, evaluative and other foci of human concern. There is nothing, in principle, that should a priori rule out the possibility of our attaining, one day, a very high level of confidence in our data and inferences regarding, for example, NDEs or other paranormal or psychic phenomenological data. At such a time, what are now mere heuristic metaphysical placeholders or otherwise controverted dogmatic beliefs could enjoy theoretic status as we would be able to move beyond the nonnegotiated and still-in-negotiation status to fully-negotiated status. It is too early on humankind's journey to say whether we are only practically constrained, methodologically and epistemically, or that we are otherwise constrained, in principle, by the permanent occulting of this aspect of reality. Of course, one could predicate the terms involved in such a way that they would not be falsifiable, but that would create a tautology with little traction pragmatically.

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As I have observed, mostly from a distance, the discussions of nonduality over the years, my lingering impression, to put it most succinctly, is that confusion tends to reign whenever epistemological observations get extrapolated into ontological conclusions.

By epistemological, I mean all the different categories that people use for describing how it is that we think we know what it is we might know. Some of these are:

1) sensation 2) thinking 3) intuition and 4) feeling;

1) descriptive 2) prescriptive 3) evaluative and 4) interpretive;

1) memory 2) understanding 3) will;

1) cognitive 2) affective 3) instinctual;

1) subjective 2) objective 3) intersubjective 4) interobjective;

1) positivist - science 2) philosophic 3) theistic 4) theotic;

1) empirical 2) rational 3) practical 4) relational;

1) apophatic 2)kataphatic 3) affective 4) speculative;

and so on and so forth, some more psychological, some more philosophical, some categories a blend of such categories.

It is also my belief that, in large measure, our epistemological faculties are geared toward distinctly human value-realizations and therefore correspond, at least roughly, to the values of 1)truth 2) beauty 3) goodness and 4)unity, which, for example, religions express in 1) creed 2) cult 3) code and 4) community.

As we move from one value-realization approach to the next, different of our epistemic faculties will seem to enjoy a primacy, which is to say that they will come to the fore in our experience. For example, during liturgy, in our cultivation of beauty, we may be at certain points, mostly affectively engaged. Or, when doing science, we may be moreso cognitively engaged, empirically focused. The important point, here, is that epistemic primacy doesn't imply epistemic autonomy.

These different categories do represent different faculties which, for the most part, do correspond to different methodologies which are autonomous. For example, faith and reason are autonomous. Positivist sciences and normative sciences are autonomous. Apophatic encounters of reality and kataphatic encounters are distinct, are autonomous. Our social-relational experiences that might inspire assent are autonomous from our empirical-rational engagements that might inspire speculation. Our practical approaches are autonomous from our theoretical speculations.

To recognize that these approaches to reality are autonomous is to recognize that they involve radically different commitments in the form of value-realizations, pursuing truth, beauty, goodness or unity, for example, and that they employ radically different terms and categories, which is to recognize that they are not logically-related. The important point here is that just because our different epistemic faculties are not logically-related does not mean that they are not intellectually-related.

And we know this, for example, from Helminiak's hierarchy of the positivist, philosophic, theistic and theotic foci of human concern, each which appropriates the other. And we know this from the way that faith relates to reason in fides et ratio. And we know this from Jungian psychology and Enneagram paradigms that relate the faculties of sensation, thinking, feeling and intuition to our cognitive, affective and instinctual levels. And we know this as we travel from the IS to the OUGHT, the given to the normative, the descritive to the prescriptive, in our natural law interpretations and moral reasoning. And we know this from our affirmation of such as Occam's Razor, where symmetry and beauty and facility guide us to truth. And we know this whenever it seems that truth comes flying in on the wings of beauty and goodness, uplifted by unity. The important point here is that just because these different epistemic faculties often enjoy a primacy in this or that value-realization, just because they are methodologically autonomous, just because they are intellectually-related even if not logically-related, just because they are integrally-related, just because EACH IS NECESSARY in every human value-realization DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANY IS SUFFICIENT for an given value-realization.

I suppose the practical upshot of what I am saying is that we cannot take these different epistemic faculties, which are indeed integrally-related and claim that they are otherwise somehow holonic.

From evolutionary epistemology, we know that ours is an ecological rationality, which is to recognize that our different epistemic faculties, methodologies and sensibilities interact within various dialectical, trialectical and tetradilectical tensions to help navigate us toward every human value-realization.

Some seem to suggest that any given epistemic approach enjoys primacy, autonomy and sufficiency for all human value-realizations, by suggesting that the other approaches are, on this occasion or that, not necessary due to some holonic dynamism that allows them to somehow inhere each in the other. This is a fantastical claim and not borne out in human experience. It is a falsifiable claim. It leads to radical apophaticisms and gnostic arationalisms.

The different epistemic faculties, methodologies and sensibilities that are integrally-related and holistically (NOT holonically)-engaged in every human value-realization, however otherwise autonomous, are all necessary, are none --- alone ---sufficient, and navigate us toward our realization of human values through a creative tetradalectical tension. One of those value-realizations is metaphysical knowledge, which yields ontological insights about creation and Creator, which further informs our theological speculations, which, in turn, have a weighty practical significance for our approach to theosis, which has profound influence on our life of prayer, our life in community, our unitive strivings, our formative spiritualities and our transformative journeys. And this is why I see such a real danger in the radical apophaticisms and gnostic arationalisms that come from the category errors of those who wrongly extrapolate nondual epistemological experiences to such broad, sweeping ontological conclusions regarding, even, such metaphysical realities as the essential description of the Creator-creature relationship. To engage in a seemingly robust description of a Reality to Whom we can otherwise only vaguely refer (according to all time-honored dogma of every Abrahamic tradition) is heterodox, indeed. One of the reasons that it is difficult to robustly describe the interplay of our different human faculties, that it is difficult to attain explanatory adequacy for exactly how this tertradalectical tension navigates us toward our value-realizations, in my view, is precisely because we are made in the image and likeness of God, which is to recognize and affirm an unfathomable depth dimension to our human experience of God, creation and one another. We are fearfully and wondrously made! It is nothing to trivialize through reductionistic accounts, nothing to romanticize through overly simplistic and pietistic accounts. It is something, instead, to inspire mysterium tremendum et fascinans!

There are time-honored traditions for discerning spirits, for evaluating alternating consolations and desolations, for recognizing the fruits of the Spirit, for the treatment of private revelation, for the recognition of true prophetic voices, for gauging the journey to human authenticity via intellectual conversion, affective conversion, moral conversion, sociopolitical conversion and religious conversion. By their fruits, then, ye shall know them. If there is one fruit that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth, then it is impolitic speech and incivil, ad hominem discourse. Let us explore, then, the creative tension between competing ideas and downplay any interpersonal tension, which is, rather, destructive of all that leads to truth, beauty, goodness and unity.

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Throughout our consideration of this NoSelf notion and how it contrasts and compares with nonduality, variously conceived, I have had these musings on nonduality in mind, especially regarding the Divine Matrix concept of a panentheist approach.

quote:


... viewing creation and creatures as quasi-autonomous realities that exist in God with both the Creator and the created order operating in and through a Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects ...


And very much at the fore of this all has been a theme of kenosis, the idea of God shrinking back and making ontological room for Creation, in general, and shrinking back even more for us as Created Co-creators, in particular, our memory, understanding and will corresponding Imago Dei-like to the Trinity.

For me, Reality starts off radically nondual and only gets quasi-nondual with the moments of Creation. As individuals we are not only not separated from God vis a vis some creatio continua, as He holds us in existence after creatio ex nihilo (even when we're in mortal sin as St. John of the Cross noted), but we are radically and inextricably intertwined within this Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects, which is what makes us quasi-autonomous.

Through theosis, as we empty ourselves of all that does not conform to the Imago Dei, we might conceive of this in terms of our own kenotic shrinking of self, gifting it back as a Reverse Creatio moment. Paradoxically, however, this movement increases our facultative autonomy for, becoming more Like God, we are less quasi, more autonomous.

There is much debate in modern theology about the loci of Divine Activity in our otherwise physical world, but examples are replete in a nonreductive physicalist paradigm of top-down causation. And with the Divine Matrix, we needn't bother with directionality issues (top-down, bottom-up) but need only realize that God's interactivity with us can be both utterly efficacious and ineluctably unobtrusive at the same time. (A lot of folks have abandoned the concept physicalist for naturalist, honoring the fact that we may not have identified all of the universe's primitives. For example, will consciousness somehow take its place alongside space, time, mass and energy? Too early to tell. Ayn Rand thought so.) At any rate, the distinction between natural and supernatural can get very blurry, however one conceives things.

When it comes to conceiving the soul, the more rigorously one deals with the issue philosophically, the more the dualist and nondualist conceptions resemble one another, really to the point where distinctions are quite academic. We have seen this with substance and process metaphysics, as the aristotelian thomists reconceive formal causation as deep and dynamic formal fields of activity, as the process thinkers recognize bounded realities. A holistic dualist conception more and more resembles the nonreductive nondualist conceptions. Only the radically dualistic and radically reductionistic approaches are theologically untenable, but this is not foremost due to anything properly theological but, primarily, because they are philosophically incoherent.

Back to theosis. One might reconceive the final act of self-emptying, death, as a holistically-conceived act of creaturely creation, as a kenotic moment of radical deliverance of our memory, understanding and will -- consciousness or self -- back into the Divine Now of the Matrix, where it is objectively "experienced" by God, Who then re-creates us in yet another kenotic-creative act of His own, mediating this now-divinized objective reality of our memory, understanding and will back into a human but newly ordered body, whether thru a singular resurrective event or thru some dynamic process, eternally of course, not temporally, or some combination uniquely suited to our particular needs.

And we Rise less quasi, more autonomous, freedom being the hallmark of love. The more freedom we experience in life, now, the more authentic our love, the more fully human we have become and the more God-like. And the more deeply intimate our relationship with the Divine Matrix, in more solidarity with God and others and even self in a manner that no eye has seen nor ear heard nor the heart of wo/man ever imagined. There is no reason that this process cannot go on forever, as we progress through kenotic exchanges, Lover and Beloved, gifting and re-gifting, creating and recreating.

Morning has broken, like the first morning
Blackbird has spoken
I must go birding in God's recreation of the new day

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Below are some practical implications for Nancy Murphy's view. It does demonstrate how a more nondual approach can be quite naturally holistic, quite naturally incarnational, forsaking some of the dualistic baggage that has plagued our tradition for too long. Again, it is not offered here as an over against, as overly normative, but in a dialogic reaffirmation of the many realities we have affirmed together for years.

quote:


Both Judaism and Christianity apparently began with a concept of human nature that comes closer to contemporary nonreductive physicalism than to Platonic dualism. But, both made accommodations to a prevailing dualistic philosophy, and combined a doctrine of the immortality of the soul with a doctrine of the resurrection of the body. The pressing question now, concerns whether to return to those earlier nonreductive physicalist accounts of human nature, as many Christian theologians have urged throughout this century.

If a nonreductive physicalist view of the person is acceptable theologically and biblically, as well as scientifically and philosophically, a variety of consequences follow in the fields of ethics, spiritual development, medicine, and psychotherapy.

For example, many arguments against abortion depend on when the human soul is presumed to appear. If the soul is present from the moment of conception, then abortion at any stage of pregnancy is full-scale murder. This argument no longer makes sense with a nonreductive physicalist account of the person, in which there is no soul upon which one's humanity depends. Similar sorts of issues arise with regard to euthanasia. It is certainly true that the concept of the soul has been valuable for ethical purposes; it needs to be shown that equally powerful arguments can be constructed using the nonreductive physicalist account of personhood. For example, Jesus' injunction to care for the "least of the brethren" (Matthew 25:40) can be applied supremely to children before they are born, as well as to the elderly at the end of their life. Notice that in Jesus' parable the emphasis is not on saving the souls of those who are in distress, but rather, on meeting their bodily needs for food, water, clothing, and companionship.

Spiritual formation throughout most of Christian history has presupposed a Platonic conception of the person. It has often been understood, for instance, that "mortification of the flesh" is necessary for the flourishing of the soul. It is likely that a nonreductive physicalist account of the person will lead to healthier and more effective approaches to spiritual life.

Psychotherapists have already come to realize the dependence of psychological health on physical health, such as when a serious illness leads to depression. Equally important is the less-frequently recognized dependence of physical health on psychological and spiritual factors. This includes, for example, the role of stress (a psychological factor) in causing ulcers, high blood pressure, and other psychosomatic ailments. Spiritual factors, such as resentment resulting from an inability to forgive others, also play a significant role in affecting one's physical health. Increasingly, studies are finding that prayer and church attendance are associated with better health. A nonreductive physicalist conception of the person can be expected to promote a more integrative practice in a variety of health-care professions. That is, it will not be possible to compartmentalize the person and to conclude that physicians treat only physical illnesses, psychologists only mental illnesses, and pastoral counselors only spiritual ills.


From your own subjective experiences, you might better empathize with Bernadette and how her experiences similarly confirmed for her what also appear to be extrapolations in the order of metaphysical knowledge. Practical examinations of the circumstances might, at best, provide others with the ability to assign different levels of probability to varying interpretations, metaphysically speaking.

But that's just metaphysics. And either view is presently consonant with known facts of science and history and with revelation. If there is a metaphysics of heaven, and if death and subsequent glorification is experienced moreso dynamically and process-like, then perhaps we can accomodate all manner of otherwise seemingly disparate metaphysical interpretations?

Perhaps BR was frozen in one frame, such as one might experience in the liminal space between heavenly "mansions." It does not seem to me that any given account is necessarily mutually incompatible with other accounts, or that one's experience must be taken as normative for all other experiences. While it may very well have normative impetus for any given freeze-frame that we might all go through, one "day," it need not of necessity otherwise elevate that experience or state or stage or frozen-frame to some gold standard of the Golden Gates.

Experiences on "this side" are richly textured and elusive enough. How much more so those of the next realm(s)? Dogmatic pronouncements about experiences on the "other side" that exceed the necessarily vague and minimalist accounts of faith are of dubious origin, and what is good for BR is good for Peter Kreeft.

If all BR is really about is metaphysical speculation, then there will be no easy adjudication of her claims. If she has broken open new categories and terms, and it appears that she has, then it is not a logically valid move to place them in logical contradiction to terms and categories and arguments of other systems that do not even employ such concepts. That's like placing quantum mechanics and gravity in competition and suggesting they are contradictory and not rather complementary accounts of the same reality. Those have to be reconciled through an arduous process of renormalization.

If, otoh, or more appropriately, in addition to such metaphysical groundbreaking, BR is speculating theologically, then that is more readily adjudicable vis a vis the existing deposit of the faith. It is one thing to do inculturated theology, rearticulating truths of the faith within specific cultural and metaphysical hermeneutics, and quite another to do de novo revelation. But before we suggest that anyone is doing something that heterodox, we must step back and ask them to prescind from a strictly metaphysical articulation to a more phenomenological account and to tell us: "Do you believe in God, the Father almighty ... in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and in life everlasting?" And these creedal articulations must then be consistent with the forms of worship we cultivate and the sacramental economy we trade in and Christ present in the Eucharist in the presider, the people gathered, the word proclaimed, in the sacred species, as we celebrate meal, memorial, covenant, thanksgiving and presence. And it seems that, on a phenomenological level and praxis level, BR is good with all of this? It is far less important what one thinks about the relationship between the immanent and economic Trinity.

It is not so much important HOW these mysteries are accomplished in positivist and metaphysical terms but THAT they are realized. In our religious language, we employ beliefs that are dogmatic, which is to say that they are nonnegotiated and nonnegotiable. In our metaphysical langauge, our beliefs are still in negotiation, which is to say that they are heuristic devices, conceptual placeholders, but not robustly explanatory. In our scientific and positivist language, we deal with beliefs that have been negotiated by a wider community of inquiry, which is to say that they are not quite as dogmatic (always open to falsification), and moreso theoretic (robustly explanatory) and less so heuristic.

When we see people employing dogmatic approaches and using nonnegotiated universals to describe metaphysical realities, or, when we witness them using robustly theoretic approaches in their treatment of theological realities, which are otherwise best dealt with in metaphor and poetry and vague terms proper to the mysteries to which they refer but cannot otherwise fully decribe, chances are some major category errors are in play.

That's part of what I sense might be going on in BR's work. But these rubrics are good for both geese and ganders.

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There’s a certain dramatic irony in that, on one hand, one could truly, with no small amount of philosophical rigor and empirical scrutiny, embrace a certain metaphysical agnosticism, needing to banish certain of life's mysteries neither speculatively nor affectively but letting them live on while still holding to the essential elements of one's faith, while, on the other hand, one could indeed resist uncertainty and seek faculty-based comforts in one's clinging to otherwise dispensable metaphysical formulations, as if certain religious beliefs were necessarily connected to certain concepts, otherwise dulling one's aesthetic sensibilities for this immense mystery of life.

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To the extent one employs philosophical rigor and empirical scrutiny toward the end of recognizing that it is indeed too early on humankind's journey to rush to closure in favor of any particular metaphysical approach or positivist perspective regarding certain of life's ineluctable paradoxes, adjudicating many such competing arguments with the Scottish verdict, recognizing manifold interpretations as indeed live options consonant with faith, all this over against so many other dogmatic takes, whether derived from a scientistic or fideistic or pietistic stance --- then one may very well have already bowed to mystery, well tolerating life's ambiguities, well accommodated to life's paradoxes, well holding life's contradictions, well nurturing life's creative tensions and truly pondering in one's heart, with Mary, this Jesus and Who He is for me, for you, for humankind, for the cosmos and, through the Spirit, for His Abba and ours.

It has been a most fruitful engagement. I leave you all with: http://shalomplace.com/res/kgambit.html

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Temporal distances are not relevant for eternal moments in the Divine Now, such as the "distance" between one's particular judgment and the general resurrection at the moment of death (as per Kung)? To be clear, I am referring to my prior post and Kung's belief that resurrection takes place immediately.

Indeed, what seems even more consonant with both the enhanced "epistemic" experience of the dying and the putative ontological manifestation of any deceased loved ones is --- not the metaphysical reality of what would, by definition, be badly impaired disembodied souls, but --- instead, the reality of what would otherwise be already ensouled, glorified bodies?

In other words, the deceased loved ones, presenting so robustly metaphysically are not suggestive of disembodied souls. And the person dying and transitioning as well as you describe, even recovering memory, understanding and will (as mediated as objectively known to the Divine Now) seems more consistent with one who's stepped into a vestibule of bodily glorification as opposed to some shadowy disembodied vestige of one's self?

Now, insofar as we believe that not all share the same destiny, these hospice accounts do not have to be taken as normative for every afterlife transitioning. No reason to believe that the dying process, for all its transcultural similarities, does not have, for each person, such idiosyncrasies that depend on the exigencies of their passing and as might be fitting to the manner in which they lived their life. IOW, who's to say every journey is the same?

This putative annihilation of self may not be temporally distanced from its own resurrection (via the mediation of its memory, understanding and will as objectively known to the Divine Now). Where Alzheimer's patients are concerned, especially those who "show strong signs of their personalities enduring, and can even experience the re-vivification of their lucid self-other sense," this mediation by the Divine Now might even suggest itself more strongly. The dynamic process account rather than the discreet event account may better capture what goes on, however temporal, however eternal, whatever the metaphysical reality.

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You wrote:
I think we have a situation, here, where Revelation and theology illuminate philosophy.

That was very well said. In the positivist, philosophic, theistic and theotic view of things (Helminiak's hierarchy), while these are otherwise autonomous domains of human concern and these different foci represent radically different commitments and logics, they are still intellectually-related. And our theistic commitments, for example, do make some demands on our philosophical perspectives, clearly excluding some even. Truth often comes flying in on the wings of beauty and goodness, uplifted by unity.

Consider this quote by Marc Cortez in EMBODIED SOULS, ENSOULED BODIES --- AN EXERCISE IN CHRISTOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGY AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE MIND/BODY DEBATE:

quote:


The thesis thus comprises two major sections. The first develops an understanding of Karl Barth’s theological anthropology focusing on three major facets: (1) the centrality of Jesus Christ for any real understanding of human persons; (2) the resources that such a christologically determined view of human nature has for engaging in interdisciplinary discourse; and (3) the ontological implications of this approach for understanding the mind/body relationship. The second part of the study then draws on this theological foundation to consider the implications that understanding human nature christologically has for analyzing and assessing several prominent ways of explaining the mind/body relationship.

This study, then, is an exercise in understanding the nature of a christocentric anthropology and its implications for understanding human ontology.


This doesn't deny that science and metaphysics and philosophy are autonomous and even narrower foci of human concern that get appropriated by theology as a broader focus of human concern, but it does illustrate how theology can inform some of our axiomatic commitments or presuppositions for these other foci, such as, for example, requiring moral and metaphysical realism, epistemological realism, fundamental human dignity and so on.

Cortez closes with:

quote:


In this study, we have not attempted to resolve this theoretical conundrum. In fact, the approach developed in the course of this study suggests that theologians should resist the temptation to wed Christian theology to any particular theory of human ontology.


This is echoed by Alfredo Dinis, who is the Dean, Associate Professor, and Lecturer of Logic, Philosophy of Science and Cognitive Science, Faculty of Philosophy of Braga, Catholic University of Portugal, in this paper , which is entitled Body, Soul and God: Philosophy, Theology and the Cognitive Sciences. Dinis writes:

quote:


The concept of a soul is not theological but rather philosophical. As a consequence, one may leave it out of the theological discourse. Concepts like ‘mind,’ ‘soul,’ ‘self,’ and ‘consciousness’ are not specifically theological concepts. They are rather philosophical concepts.

Theology has over the centuries used such concepts to express some religious beliefs, but such beliefs do not have a necessary connection with those concepts and certainly not with the metaphysical meaning they have in some philosophical traditions. Today, however, it is the sciences, especially the cognitive sciences, that wish to clarify such concepts.

In this task, they are most of the time against religious beliefs because such beliefs seem to be necessarily connected with those concepts. I want to argue that this is a mistake, and that most authors in the cognitive sciences are basing their analysis on misleading presuppositions.

But it is also true that a new theology needs a new anthropology, one that is less dependent on the traditional metaphysics of Thomas Aquinas and more in line with a relational paradigm.


And in the spirit of those two papers cited above, I commend the following work of Nancey Murphy to all:
THEOLOGY IN A POSTMODERN AGE: which included three lectures: 1) BEYOND MODERN LIBERALISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM; 2) BEYOND MODERN DUALISM AND REDUCTIONISM; and 3) BEYOND MODERN INWARDNESS.

A more concise summary can be found here and also here at Counterbalance, entitled Neuroscience & the Person and Neuroscience, Religious Experience and the Self, respectively.

Finally, here are some interview transcripts of Nancey Murphy's The Conscious Mind.

Alfredo Dinis amplifies this:

quote:


The metaphysical mind-body dualism is now being systematically challenged by a growing number of Christian philosophers and theologians (Murphy 1998, Brown 1998, Clayton 1999, Gregersen 2000). Nancy Murphy, for example, argues philosophically in favour of a non-reductive physicalism, which she describes as “the view that the human nervous system, operating in concert with the rest of the body in its environment, is the seat of consciousness (and also of human spiritual and religious capacities).” (1998, 131) These Christian philosophers and theologians believe that we do not need either the concept of a metaphysical self or that of a metaphysical soul. A relational self seems more adequate to understand the nature of human beings than a metaphysical self. Indeed, every traditional metaphysical category appears increasingly to be inadequate and in need to be abandoned in our search for knowledge. A relational view of the person, and indeed of God, needs no immortal soul to assure immortality. Instead, immortality is a relational situation. Human relationships constitute the individuals as persons. For those who believe in God, it is God’s foundational relation with the whole creation that makes human immortality possible.


Now, let me say that the metaphysics of the human person remain an open question, especially vis a vis philosophy of mind issues and the hard problem of consciousness. And let me reassert that, on matters metaphysical, I am agnostic. I incline, however, to the more nondual approaches to the human person. And to the human person's relationship to God as being only quasiautonomous. My panentheism is indifferent to metaphsyics, for the most part, and very much indifferent to whether or not any subjective aspect of human personhood is immortal.

Now,  as to any teachings, dogmas or creedal elements, those are distinctly theological, necessarily vague, and certainly open to interpretation and rearticulation, metaphysically and philosophically. They certainly do not presuppose aristotelian or thomistic metaphysics, in general, or the soul, in particular. The "descent into hell" was possibly understood by the early church as an emphasis on Jesus' death and the resurrection of the body is foundational for the doctrine of the Communion of Saints, the church militant, penitent and triumphant. For those in the church penitent (a state) and the church triumphant (heaven), we needn't conceive of them as disembodied. With Kung, we can argue against the idea of a separated soul between particular judgment and the general resurrection as understood in either a platonic or aristotelian-thomist way, recognizing that, in Kung's words, "man dies a whole, with body and soul, as a psychosomatic unity … into that eternity of the divine Now which, for those who have died, makes irrelevant the temporal distance of this world between personal death and the last judgement."

While theology certainly does have implications for our metaphysical and philosophical presuppositions, as you noted and our authors above affirm, you will note that all of the above-listed authors consider other anthropological approaches, other than the distinctly dualistic conception, to be live options for the inquiring theological anthropologists.

You wrote:

quote:


Some of these teachings are dogmas, one is even in the Creed -- all long before the rediscovery of Aristotle and the teachings of Thomas Aquinas, Scholasticism, etc.


and, in fact, many of the earliest Christian writers of both the 1st and 2nd centuries, and even later Athanasius, did not believe in human immortality. It came later with hellenization and those guys you listed.

Nancey Murphy summarizes:

quote:


Both Judaism and Christianity apparently began with a concept of human nature that comes closer to contemporary nonreductive physicalism than to Platonic dualism. But, both made accommodations to a prevailing dualistic philosophy, and combined a doctrine of the immortality of the soul with a doctrine of the resurrection of the body. The pressing question now, concerns whether to return to those earlier nonreductive physicalist accounts of human nature, as many Christian theologians have urged throughout this century.


As for any persistence of the soul after death, while Kung, in Eternal Life, finds a two-fold view of human nature unscientific and any life based thereon untenable, he allows for resurrection, as does John Hick, right after death. Kung has tried to rehabilitate the concept of purgatory, which is less problematical conceived as a state not a place (thanks JPII for clearing that up).

Alfredo Dinis also wrote:

quote:


From this externalist point of view, it is possible to think about immortality within a non-dualistic framework - within a relational and dialogical framework. In his book Introduction to Christianity Joseph Ratzinger, the actual Pope, has put forward a relational view of the soul:
“ ‘having a spiritual soul’ means precisely being willed, known, and loved by God in a special way; it means being a creature called by God to an eternal dialogue and therefore for its own part capable of knowing God and of replying to him. What we call in substancialist language ‘having a soul’ we will describe in a more historical, actual language as ‘being God’s partner in a dialogue’.“ (2004, 355)
A dialogical concept of the human soul has for Ratzinger an immediate consequence: an equally dialogical concept of immortality: “man’s immortality is based on his dialogic relationship with and reliance upon God, whose love alone bestows eternity” (2004, 355). A dialogical concept of immortality needs no body-soul scheme, no natural-supernatural dualism. Thus, according to Ratzinger, “it is also perfectly possible to develop the idea [of immortality] out of the body-soul schema” (2004, 355), and so “it becomes evident once again at this point that in the last analysis one cannot make a neat distinction between ‘natural’ and ‘supernatural’,” (2004, 355-6), since it is the dialogue of love between God and the human beings, and among the human beings themselves, that is truly the essence of every religious experience.


 

It is precisely Occam, who applied his razor to any philosophical demonstration of the immortality of the soul. Scotus, too, saw such arguments as inconclusive. Proper scriptural exegesis doesn't allow proof-texting either on this metaphysical issue. While it remains, in my view, an open question, parsimony doesn't needlessly multiply ontological layers for explanations that have ever increasing probabilities based on empirically falsifiable and verifiable observations regarding those faculties of the human brain once explained by those of the soul. With Peirce, I'm all for the mattering of mind and the minding of matter. Against Kung, however, I'm not ready to toss out psychic phenomena and other paranormal evidence. It is too early to draw such conclusions. Neither, however, do I want to foreclose on physicalist and/or naturalist accounts of the soul.

I think we have a situation where revelation and theology can certainly help us with an account that elevates human nature and dignity via a Christocentric anthropology. But I also believe that theology has overstepped its bounds if it leaves anyone with the impression that the metaphysics of philosophy of mind are loaded with inescapable philosophical presuppositions.

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On my own journey, there are many distinctions that I have found very useful for processing my various experiences. For example, I feel like I can legitimately distinguish between:

1) phenomenal states
2) developmental stages
3) psychic structures
4) epistemological faculties
5) ontological categories
6) metaphysical realities
7) positivist sciences
8) philosophic (normative) sciences
9) practical sciences (including theological)
10) theotic sciences (e.g. formative spirituality)


When it comes to the experience of no self , in particular, I have found Merton's distinctions especially useful:

1) existential vs theological
2) apophatic vs kataphatic
3) natural vs supernatural
4) immanent vs transcendent
5) impersonal vs personal

Further, from Merton, I came to better understand that the false self is a necessary part of our development and is not lost but transcended on the journey of transformation, which is to say that we go beyond it but not without it as we grow in likeness to God. This is not incompatible with the view that I recently shared regarding my own philosophical conception of nonduality here:

quote:


I do not see anything wrong with viewing creation and creatures as quasi-autonomous realities that exist in God with both the Creator and the created order operating in and through a Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects.


 

So, I certainly do not equate any conception of the transcendence of this False Self with an experience of the No Self. Rather, I equate the latter with what Arraj has described as the loss of the affective ego. And we should be aware that this is a very complex psychospiritual dynamic that doesn't lend itself to facile analyses and diagnoses, whether from this depression or that, dark nights, enlightenment, the threshold of contemplation, infused contemplation and so on.

I am grateful to people like Ken Wilber, Tony deMello and Bernadette Roberts for the depth of their personal sharing and the breadth of their imagination and intellection. It provides much food for thought and experiential grist for the formative spirituality mill. My chief criticism is that they have all, in one way or another, committed major category errors vis a vis, for example, the many distinctions I have outlined above. Above all, whatever it is that is going on vis a vis their own phenomenal states, psychic structures and developmental stages, they have drawn sweeping and unwarranted conclusions regarding metaphysical realities, in my view.

Below are some musings from yesteryear that discuss my understanding of the Loss of the Affective Ego vis a vis my processing of my own experiences through Merton's insights. They can be found in context here.

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I cannot report a loss of affect as much as I can discern, rather, a tendency for feelings to follow me into action rather than leading me into action.

St. Thomas described how our love of God increases in proportion to our knowledge of God. And this is true.

St. Bernard described how our knowledge of God increases in proportion to our love of God. This, too, is true.

The knowledge of God that St. Bernard describes, however, surpasses that which St. Thomas was speaking and writing about. St. Thomas was talking about that knowledge of God that comes from both natural and supernatural revelation, a discursive knowing that increases through our study of philosophy, metaphysics, theology and such, such a knowing as could never attain to God's essential nature even as it might infinitely advance toward same.

The love of which both Thomas and Bernard spoke of, however, can indeed communicate with God's essential nature, leading one to a mysterious type of knowledge that certainly informs our normative sciences (of logic, aesthetics and ethics) and descriptive sciences (for instance, natural science) but which also far surpasses them, a knowledge difficult to describe or articulate. Such a love, I believe, is experienced on the threshold of contemplation.

Such is the love which casts out all fear. And here is the link to the loss of the affective ego that I'd like to explore. The perfect love that casts out all fear is a love that has grown in dependency on God, has learned to trust God, that knows that, however bad the situation or dire the circumstances, in the final analysis, all will be well. It is the mystical love of Julian that sings all may, can, will and shall be well and is the realization of the promise that you will know that all manner of things will be well. Here, then, is the distinction we draw between existential fear and neurotic fear, existential guilt and neurotic guilt, existential anger and neurotic anger, the existential always in service of life and love and relationship, the neurotic invariably life-detracting, love-detracting, relationship-destroying. We are not dealing only with neuroses that are overcome in the process of individuation but also those sinful resistances to conversion that are overcome on our journey of transformation, distinct but intertwined realities.

So, I would describe the loss of the affective ego as an energy inversion whereby the emotions and feelings and affective life don't so much energize our behaviors by initiating them but rather energize our behaviors by reinforcing them. It seems that this state could be effected all of a sudden through some precipitating event or could arise through time and a habit of virtue.

I will stop here as my thoughts are fogging up, but there is a dynamic of love and surrender that seems to be involved and either a sudden metanoia or a force of habit where this dynamic is concerned?

Love, eminently reasonable, needs no reason, inasmuch as it is sufficient unto itself. Happiness, finally, cannot be pursued but must ensue. So, too, with good feelings. They aren't needed but will often ensue, which is to say, follow, love.

Merton noted that often, when we are in pain and conflict and contradiction, we incorrectly associate same with old wounds, with old injuries that truly have been resolved and healed already. During such times, Merton encourages us to consider the very real possibility that we are, rather, being invited to open ourselves to a new level of being through such pain and conflict and contradiction. In other words, if we are not properly attentive, then we run the risk of stagnation, desolation and aridity, sometimes for months or years, dwelling on the wrong integrative and transformative issues, missing the invitation to move to another level, a level that could be attained in a day even.

One of the chief obstacles to advancing in the spiritual life, then, is to gain a certain clarity of vision regarding the route to sanctity or to psychological integration (routes that are much intertwined) and then acting as if the vision itself is the attainment when, in fact, it is not the mapping of the journey that marks our growth but the walking of the road, which is to say that, if you are on the illuminative or unitive way, then get on with it, and so on. Further, the mapping never involves the entire journey but entails, rather, our next good step, a step which is the spiritual equivalent of taking the entire journey Thus it is that the entire road is traversed, one step at a time in faith with the trust that that step is truly what is required for now, for today. We can get caught up with seeing the road and then fail to walk it, is our constant peril.

Two lessons here: Sometimes one has to quit beating one's head against the wall just because it feels good when you stop. Sometimes one has to quit circling the same developmental block on the journey just because some of the signs look the same, which is to say that emotional memories can get in the way by misleading us into thinking that our pain is rooted in old unresolved issues when it is moreso about leading us in a new direction entirely (with a genesis in new issues), inviting us to another level entirely. Then, once we see this new direction, it is of the essence to WALK it and not merely content ourselves in the consolation of SEEING it!

Well, this is a very loose rendering of the meaning I gathered from Merton and any misconstructions are my own. I will leave it to the forum to sort through how the integration/transformation of the affective ego fits in, for that may be a better way of describing what I think is going on in what is being called the loss of the affective ego. Point is that old emotional memories can get improperly associated with new spiritual emergence issues and that we can misdiagnose the reason for our present pain, conflict and contradiction.

I believe it was in that very same lecture that Merton noted that the spiritual path and the path of scientific breakthroughs is analogous. Specifically, the steps are: 1) We find an issue, sort through it and set about to solve it. 2) We grapple and grapple with it until we realize that it is virtually irresolute, unsolvable, beyond us, too difficult. 3) We let go and move on. 4) Sometimes, years later, the solution comes to us in an instant, in a flash.

Nothing very profound here. We've all used this apporach in balancing our checkbooks, eh? But the point is that that is how our human natures are constructed and that that is how our unconscious and conscious minds and spirits seem to interface.

Seeing after not before is axiomatic for the spiritual mapping of the journey. Others' journeys, even those of the great mystical doctors, let's say the Carmelites like John of the Cross and Teresa of Jesus, can give us touchpoints for the journey, indications that we are on the road, but they have no predictive value. The same is true with Ignatian and sanjuanian discernment such as re: consolation and desolation, maybe even such as regarding loss of affect, depression, acedia, beginnings of contemplation -- where we are moreso discerning retrospectively and not so much being guided prospectively.

Finally, BINGO re: this wisdom as not being a property of the mind even though it works very much in concert with the mind. The contemplative gaze in love transcends our cognitive and discursive faculties and penetrates through to the Divine Essence, actually communicating and relating to God's essential nature, a nature that is, in principle, incomprehensible.

We must be careful, however, in confusing incomprehensible with unintelligible. If these experiences were unintelligible and God was unintelligible, this forum wouldn't be possible, huh?
Another Mertonesque thought: We are moving toward an existential realization of how critical to our spiritual survival prayer really is. This realization is attained when we feel our need for prayer as acutely as we would feel the need for a breath when underwater.

That is my crude rendering from memory. I think this has something to say to us all whether we are called to discursive mediation, lectio, meditatio, oratio, contemplatio, operatio or what have ya. Whatever our prayer gift as led by the Spirit, it is to be engaged with the sense of critical and acute and urgent need that affirms our radical dependence and perennial state of existential crisis.

Now, don't get Merton wrong. This is all dialectical. One moves into crisis to lose crisis. One loses self to gain self. First, there is a mountain. Then, there is no mountain. Then, there is. One recognzies one's radical dependency to move to place of radical trust. One experiences one's emptiness and abject poverty to realize one's utter fullness. One moves into paradox and pain and contradiction to realize that, whatdaya know, all is well.

This is something re: the loss of self that is affirmed by the Sufi (Islamic)and the Hasidic (Jewish) mystics and that Merton, building on Buber as well as the Sufis, so well understood.

So, too, with human affects and desires. John of the Cross speaks of disordered appetites and Ignatius speaks of inordinate desires. It is not the appetite or desire we seek to eradicate, ultimately, but through proper ascticism and renunciation, we lose our emotional energy that intitiates so many of our behaviors (both virtue and vice) only to regain it to reinforce our virtues. Think of Ignatian discernment re: consolation and desolation, for example, and of how the different spirits console or afflict us, variously, as we either cooperate with Grace or backslide.

This dialectic is working, I believe, with the affective ego. Now, there may be something very deeply analogous going on with spiritual consolations and desolations and psychological affects that is not completely identical. This could account for how psychologically developmentally deformative influences might intefere/interact with spiritually transformative processes. This is no easy nut to crack and might profoundly influence with what facility one moves through an existential crisis to the experience of no-crisis-after-all. IOW, a spiritual emergence issue that gets foisted upon someone may not achieve its dialectical goal of teaching one to breathe underwater but could, for all practical purposes, drown a person.

When He knew for certain only drowning men could see Him, He said all men shall be sailors, then, until the sea shall free them.

continuing with Merton

Merton speaks of a Sufi scholar, who draws many parallels to psychoanalysis, which is to say who sees the therapy process as analogous to the spiritual journey.

If in therapy our primary concern is the resolution of unresolved subconscious conflicts, then Sufism might be thought of in the same way, only on a deeper level.

In therapy and normal individuation, we are resolving certain conflicts, the resolutions of which 1) take us from an infantile level, take us from the merely instinctual animal to a human type of being where our cognitive and affective development is concerned 2) then further take us and adapt us to successful social and cultural beings.

Many struggle at the first level, such as with an Oedipus complex, by way of example, staying Momma's boys their entire life, but most get through it to the second level of struggle, some falling prey to escapes from the difficult realities of social-cultural life. AA is an example of a good way to deal with such evasions, helping primarily by providing motives to change, wise to the fact that one has to want to change in order to change and no one can do it for us. This is pretty much where conventional therapy stops, helping one deal with one's neurotic evasions of social responsibility.

This, however, is insufficient for bringing about the general honesty required to go deeper and to become an authentic human who has faced life's fundamental challenges, life's BIGGER problems, gaining life's existential awareness.

What are these BIG PROBLEMS? 1) continuity vs discontinuity - death 2) creativity - having a life that is meaningful, a presence that makes a difference.

What are the mistakes that even analysts/therapists make here? What mistakes are made by us as individuals at this level? We treat these issues as if they were problems of social adaptation (that second level we talked about). IOW, if you are esteemed by your society or in a particular cultural milieu, then you've conquered these problems, your presence not only has made a difference but lives on, in a manner of speaking. WRONG! This "solution" leads people into a further evasion from a truly meaningful life. This blueprint is wrong and must be torn up and thrown away. [Think here of our affective reward system and not only what vices are reinforced by certain emotions but also by what so-called virtues are being reinforced by our range of emotions. There needs to be a rewiring.]

What is called for, rather, is a BREAKTHROUGH into existential awareness. IOW, we recognize that this social esteem and instinctual control we have gained is MEANINGLESS, not meaningless, to be sure, for our functioning in ordinary life, but certainly in terms of life's ultimate meaning. [Here Merton recommends Viktor Frankl.]

So, from this deeper level, our social success is meaningless. On one hand, though, it is great and necessary, but, otoh, it is TOTALLY NUTS!

How do we get in touch with what is needed on the deeper level? Through the Psalmist is one way, for the deeper level whether praying the mad, glad or sad psalms is always GOD.

The CROSS is the demonstration of this struggle, the realization of this conflict in Jesus, a conflict between the establishment of the religion, such as in society, on one hand, and the realization of authentic religion, such as in one's heart, otoh. It REJECTS the silly notion of "Keep the rules and there you've got all the answers," which Merton calls a wooden nickel. It similarly rejects: "Don't keep the rules," which is a stupid form of the same silly game.

The ultimate solution to our biggest subconscious unresolved conflicts, our existential questions, is experiencing our rootedness in God, God in our very hearts. Death loses its significance as an end because we are already finalities, already ends unto ourselves because of our being-in-God, being-in-love, which is sufficient unto itself with no further reason or justification. Our creativity is found in our issuing forth from the Creator and not in anything we do to gain social approval or cultural amenities. The obligational has become aspirational. One then studies and prays, fastening and binding one's spirit to God, clinging to God, after the manner I wrote about previously, needing prayer as badly as one who is under water needs a breath. Then, in all we see and experience, God is present, and we don't at all take seriously the self we have to be to operate in society, the role playing, the best things in life not being demanded by us but received a pure gift from God FOR ME, who lets God be Himself in me, when my false self has vanished.

The old emotional programming, that was even formative and not deformative, must be re-wired, in order to move on to the deeper level of a human being-in-love-with-God. Hence the dark Nights. Hence, the transformation of the affective ego as we move from a false to a true self.
re: The old emotional programming, that was even formative and not deformative, must be re-wired, in order to move on to the deeper level of a human being-in-love-with-God. Hence the dark Nights. Hence, the transformation of the affective ego as we move from a false to a true self.

continuing -

Hence, what Merton is describing is our social persona, which must die. True enough, our formation from the animal-instinctual to the social-cultural self is required, is necessary for the journey. In fact, we cannot surrender this self to the Cross, which is to say, to the existential crisis, until we have fully come into possession of same.

The existential crisis, then, involves a confrontation of the I with the not I , of the true self with the false self, and, when it is upon us, everything we see and observe and relate to in our existence is then seen through the lens of this crisis, of this Cross.

For society-at-large, then, the Gospel is this lens. The problem is that we have talked about the Cross so much, about the Gospel so much, that we have, in some sense, trivialized it and robbed it of its profound and radical significance for our individual lives and our lives in community. While in this crisis, however, we come to realize that the reason the world has so many huge problems -- socially, culturally, politically, economically -- is because of people, people like me who are living on a phony, superficial level of existence, out of contact with our true source, Who is God, alone.

The ultimate idolatry, then, is our self. So, we take this socially-formed self and crucify it and it is not like going to a movie or coming into an Internet discussion forum but is, rather, much more like walking into a fire.

The reward system, the reinforcement mechanisms, the old emotional programs, which worked so well for those of us who made it through our formative years with more formation, reformation and information than deformation, must be transformed. This mirrors, in fact, how our loving knowledge of God no longer comes through our senses, no longer is accompanied by sensible consolations, but is a direct communication with the Divine Essence that is beyond our discursive faculties. All of this is a massive upheaval of the way things have been for us --- cognitively, affectively, morally even, for it is no longer a mere following of the rules that brings one closer to God, although that part of our formation was absolutely necessary. This is a huge project and undertaking, multilayered and multitextured and quite unique for each individual, although we have discussed the touchpoints and the mapping of this journey.

The soul now approaches the God, Who needn't approach, Who dwells within, and the heart remains restless that has not made God its all. Rooted in God in radical trust and surrender, a new reward and reinforcement system gets set in place, where Love of self for sake of self has been transcended by love of God for sake of self, which has been transcended by love of God for sake of God, 'til, finally, our true self emerges and we love that self for the sake of God. The dialectic takes us back into self-possession, paradoxically, by self-surrender. This has cognitive, affective and moral aspects.

This is why we are here.
What comes to mind with respect to adulterers and murderers like both King Herod and King David, is what, ultimately, makes the difference between our going Herod's route or that of David?

To a certain extent, all that society asks by way of reformation is that we be rehabilitated into a good social persona, that we function well in our interpersonal dealings -- politically, economically, socially and culturally. IOW, society asks that we follow the rules, that we obey the law. Adherence to the Law is what was required of these Old Testament persons, in accordance with the Old Covenant. David became a good man and a great king by meeting these standards. He became his true self, the psalmist, when he went deeper in his relationship to God.

So, in its very essence, the Old Covenant very much corresponds to that second level of development, that which pertains to our socialization, and, although there were certain prophecies and foreshadowings, the crosses borne by these peoples were not the same as THE CROSS. Certainly, there must have always been some opportunity for humans on earth to partake of the transformative process effected by Jesus for once and for all through his birth, life, passion, death and resurrection. Indeed, many did undergo such radical transformation, especially, one might suspect, someone like David, the Psalmist, who points the way to Jesus, to the Father, in the Spirit.

At the same time, the explicit announcement of the New Testament, the proclamation of the Good News, the living out of the Gospel, of the Kerygma, through the Cross, marked an existential crisis at a global level for ALL PEOPLES, and played itself out as, not a total renunciation but, as a total surpassing of the old way. This is directly analogous to the death to self that is called for on the journey of each individual but involved a type of death for the People of God as a whole, who were being called to a new level of intimacy.

Again, we invoke, as individuals, because we have been convoked, as an entire People of God. We are called as a People and respond, radically alone (in many respects), as individuals.

Another lesson that is taught about David by Louis Evely in That Man Is You , which is to say: what is wrong with the world is ME.

What happens as we make the turn and drop the persona, which, again, was formatively necessary, is that we seek enlightenment out of compassion for the world, which constantly suffers our unenlightened selves. No longer are we in search of consolation or sensible positive affect because Perfect Love is its own reward, is totally unconditional, entirely kenotic.

We lay down our false selves, not for our own benefit, not because we are tired of the pain it causes us, but because of the pain we are transmitting to our loved ones, to the world. Any pain that is not thusly transformed, however neurotic or psychotic or emotional or idiopathic, we transmit to others. We seek to be rid of this pain that we may desist from transmitting it to others. Perfect Love and Perfect Contrition are inextricably bound up. It is suffcient to enter the Kingdom, through the law, through the old gate, of following the rules and being sorry for the consequences to ourselves when we don't. That was the old way and it still works.

BUT, if we take up our cross, go through the existential crisis, and come to that breakthrough where we are moreso sorry for our sin because of the consequences to others and to God, then we crucify the Old Man and rise as a New Creation, seeking the contemplative gaze, as Teresa says, not so much for the consolations but, rather, in order to gain the strength to serve. We become Christs. We allow God to be God-in-us, our truest selves. This isn't a requirement, but it is an invitation. The most important one that any of us will RSVP or not.

Let me insert this here. Losing something like fear does not mean that we have come to any Pollyannaish conclusion that all of the bad things that could happen to us are not going to happen --- rather, it means that, we know full well they are even likely to happen but are nothing, ultimately, to fear. So, too, with guilt, anger ... We give up the neurotic version in exchange for the existential version, which is quite THE CROSS to arrive at the resurrected version, which is ALL IS WELL.

This, too, is dialectical, like the Kingdom. It is on its way. It has already arrived. Paradise is ours to inherit. It is already in our hearts. All is decidedly NOT well, temporally, in this earthly tent wherein we dwell, BUT, in reality, ours is a robe of resplendent glory and, eternally (not at the end of time or for a long time, but outside of time where we have both origin and destiny), ALL is, indeed, well.

Another distinction from Merton.

Merton discusses two of the types of confessio, of confession, but I don't recall the latin terms for both. One was laude or praise. The other was re: the more familiar "It was me. I done it." that we know from the Rite of Reconciliation and from police shakedowns, or parental busts re: hands in cookie jars.

This distinction makes for rich reflection and meditation but I'll try to control my imagination and focus on the transformative process.

The confession of praise is the converse: "It was God. He done it."

The psalms are about 50:50 penitential supplication taking the form of "I done it" and of praise taking the form of adoration of "He done it."

Now, there comes a point where we pass through existential crisis or a series of crises and recognize that there is little meritorious effort on our behalf other than cooperation with grace and that all else is pure unmerited Grace. This is part of recognizing our radical dependence on God, Whom we can trust because, well, look around at What He Done!

My point pertaining to this thread, however, is that, prior to getting to that place of praise and He Done It, we must get both to the place of I Done It re: our abject sinfulness as well as It Isn't/Wasn't Me! re: our manifold blessings and very existence.

Part of the nondual experience, then, is the existential realization of It Isn't Me --- not this creation, not these feelings, not these thoughts, not any rule-following or goodness, iow, It Isn't Me cognitively, affectively or morally, that's responsible for starting all of this, holding it all together and taking it anywhere.

This can be quite liberating.

The famous singer-songwriter, James Taylor, once made a wisecrack about AA, saying that half of the people that are in it are trying to come to the realization that they are not God, while the other half had the job once and are desperately busy trying to tender their resignation.

Well, it isn't enough to stop with It Isn't Me, and that, I believe, is where an existential experience of the no-self can leave us. But this apophatic realization must be dialectically related to HE DID IT! IT'S HER! and this is the positive, kataphatic content that is truly fitting and proper, coming from a tongue that cannot confess same without the initiative of the Spirit's prompting.

So, the loss of the affective ego can occur, in any of the many ways we have conceived it and experienced it, I think, and particularly in a manner that Merton wisely discerned was apophatic, natural, impersonal, existential, but needing completion in the kataphatic, supernatural, personal and theological, these processes nurturing and mutually enriching and entailing one another.

Point is, the confession of It's Not Me is necessary but not sufficient.

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We maintain that all successful descriptions of God, if literal, are necessarily apophatic, which is to say that we thus gain descriptive accuracy through negation, while we gain positive descriptive accuracy of God, kataphatically speaking, necessarily, only through analogy.

Many people look at this grammar of description and see a paradox. They suggest that if God is literally no-thing in sensible reality as could be successfully described other than through negation or analogy, then why does this seeming radical discontinuity not, therefore, entail a complete causal disjunction between Creator and creature? This is to say that they feel like there is a causal joint question still begging, somehow. How can this Creator, if wholly distinct ontologically from creation, thereby exert any effects, whatsoever, on the created order?

There is another grammar, however, which is the grammar of reference. And this grammar suggests that we can, in principle, successfully reference realities we are otherwise unable to successfully describe. And we have always routinely employed these distinctions (between description and reference) as we've advanced in our knowledge of science and metaphysics, retreating into rather vague heuristic references while awaiting more robust theoretic descriptions for unknown causes proper to known effects.

Meta-metaphysically, then, God is the answer to our limit questions, primally asking: Who, What, When, Where, How and Why?

And while we may indeed claim that we successfully refer to this ineluctably unobtrusive Reality as the Answer to these ultimate questions, at the same time, we are by no means suggesting that this Reality is not also utterly efficacious causally. Analogically, we may think of Haught's discussion of Polanyi's tacit dimension, of Arraj's discussion of nonlocality and superluminality, or of formal and final causation ---even as minimalistically conceived--- in Peirce's triadic semiotic science.

In her paper, A God Adequate for Primate Culture, Nancy R. Howell of the Saint Paul School of Theology writes about John Haught's evolution-informed approach, http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2001/2001-4.html :

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God, in a theology of evolution, must permit "genuine independence" in creation. Haught's rationale for such a God rests in divine kenotic love. Love by its very nature cannot compel, and so any God whose very essence is love should not be expected to overwhelm the world either with a coercively directive "power" or an annihilating "presence." Indeed, an infinite love must in some sense "absent" or "restrain itself," precisely in order to give the world the "space" in which to become something distinct from the creative love that constitutes it as "other." We should anticipate, therefore, that any universe rooted in an unbounded love would have some features that appear to us as random or undirected.


There is a tension, then, between our conceptions of some type of causal continuity or interactivity and an ontological discontinuity between Creator and created. This should not surprise us, however, for analogously, we encounter discontinuities even within the created order between otherwise distinct levels of emergent reality even without the violation of known causal closure dynamics.

As science advances and our metaphysical tautologies gain ever more taut grasps of reality, our kataphatic God-analogues will become more robustly descriptive and so will our apophatic negations (as we add to our positivist inventory of not-God-realities). Our references to God can become ever more successful, too, especially once considering that our God-encounters engage all of our intentional fields (Haught, Lonergan), our entire person integrally and unfathomably, in a relationship of love, precisely through such divine kenosis as we have explicated above. The efficacy of this relationship derives from our being God-like and necessarily precludes, in principle, our being, essentially, God.

Thomas Merton speaks of the confessional aspects of the Psalms, one which was: "It wasn't me! It was Him, Who did this!"

This kenosis, this divine self-emptying, condescends through the Incarnation (and all the attendant Mysteries that we celebrate) to gift us with a correspondence --- not an identity --- with God. This correspondence fosters communication (think Logos, think semeiotic even) most unitively!

Raw awareness of this correspondence is ineffable, nondiscursive, immanent, impersonal, existential and apophatic. Reflective experience is liturgical, discursive, transcendent, personal, theological and kataphatic. They can nurture each other in a virtuous cycle. Neither the awareness nor the experience yields ontological descriptions, but the reflective experience refers to the Wholly Other and is, in that sense, vaguely ontological, in maintaining the discontinuity.

When we say that we can describe nothing of God literally, except in denying what God is not, and that all of our positive descriptions are merely analogical ...

But that we can still successfully refer to God ...

What are the implications for the relationship between Creator and created? What bridges the ontological discontinuity in this relationship? What gets us past mere analogy?

I seem to recall a discussion by Arraj of deep and dynamic formal fields. And this is from a Thomistic perspective. There is also the panentheistic, neo-Whiteheadian perspective of Fr. Joe Bracken, who speaks of the Divine Matrix. It is beyond my competence to reconcile these approaches with one another, much less with my own semiotic approach. And since my own grasp is rather inchoate it makes it difficult to translate my intuitions into an accessible form. But I'm going to try anyway.

I do not see anything wrong with viewing creation and creatures as quasi-autonomous realities that exist in God with both the Creator and the created order operating in and through a Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects. This could only be accommodated by a Thomistic view that reconceives its ontological categories more dynamically and not in static, essentialistic identities, for example, seeing the Whiteheadian concept of creativity in the Thomistic act of being.

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Creativity is thus to be understood as immanent within creatures, rather than transcending them and ‘may aptly be described as “the divine matrix” within which the three divine persons and all their creatures exist in dynamic interrelation. See this link .


This all seems to resonate with Phil Hefner's description of human beings as created co-creators.

Reconceiving this relationship between God and creatures has implications for how we view original sin and for theodicy and such. I won't go there for now.

The bottomline is that we experience enough autonomy to be in an authentic (in radical freedom) love relationship with God and others and enough causal interconnectedness to know that we will subsist, forever, through, with and in this Divine Matrix.

It may be that a natural mysticism corresponds to a raw awareness of this ineluctably unobtrusive tacit dimension or matrix. It is with the benefit of special revelation that our contemplation experiences it as Divine. Our contemplation reflects on our autonomy. Enlightenment qualifies it as quasi.

re: Our contemplation reflects on our autonomy. Enlightenment qualifies it as quasi.

Just to be clear, those aspects of contemplation and enlightenment, of course, do not exhaust those rich human realities.

re: I do not see anything wrong with viewing creation and creatures as quasi-autonomous realities that exist in God with both the Creator and the created order operating in and through a Divine matrix of interrelated causes and effects.

To amplify a bit, I have recently been contemplating this panentheist approach with an aim toward reconciling it with that of Gregory Palamas and the hesychasts. It does not seem to me to be a major stumbling block for Christian unity, no more than the filioque?

About Hesychasm

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In the Byzantine East, the hesychast tradition had a tremendous influence, and found a powerful interpreter in Gregory Palamas in the 14th century. Palamas, the most influential Greek Orthodox theologian of the Middle Ages, taught that the most effective way to increase our awareness, integrate body and soul, and open ourselves to God is to attend to our breathing.

In The Triads in Defense of the Holy Hesychasts, Gregory described the process of pure prayer beyond words or thoughts or concepts and advised his students what to expect.

The first step is to enter into our own body, not to flee from it. While this is very difficult at the beginning, with repeated effort in time attention to breathing gathers together the mind that has been dissipated and produces inner detachment and freedom.

For Palamas, this activity is not itself grace, but he tells us that God works in and through the body and soul together to communicate supernatural gifts. As long as we have not experienced this transformation, we believe that the body is always driven by corporeal and material passions.

In language that is at times similar to the Buddhist tradition, Palamas tells us that theoretical knowledge cannot grasp this transformation. Only experience can convince a person that another form of life, free from the incessant domination of desire, is possible. Apatheia, the fruit of prayer, is not the deadening of feeling, but that stillness and openness that frees us from self-concern and allows us to redirect our natural energies toward serving others.

Through prayer and the grace of God, every aspect of ourselves is transformed and crowned with virtue.

http://monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=771


quote:


In solitude and retirement the Hesychast repeats the Jesus Prayer, "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." The Hesychast prays the Jesus Prayer 'with the heart'—with meaning, with intent, 'for real' (see ontic). He never treats the Jesus Prayer as a string of syllables whose 'surface' or overt verbal meaning is secondary or unimportant. He considers bare repetition of the Jesus Prayer as a mere string of syllables, perhaps with a 'mystical' inner meaning beyond the overt verbal meaning, to be worthless or even dangerous. This emphasis on the actual, real invocation of Jesus Christ marks a divergence from Eastern forms of meditation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychast


quote:


Orthodox Tradition warns against seeking ecstasy as an end in itself. Hesychasm is a traditional complex of ascetical practices embedded in the doctrine and practice of the Orthodox Church and intended to purify the member of the Orthodox Church and to make him ready for an encounter with God that comes to him when and if God wants, through God's Grace. The goal is to acquire, through purification and Grace, the Holy Spirit and salvation. Any ecstatic states or other unusual phenomena which may occur in the course of Hesychast practice are considered secondary and unimportant, even quite dangerous. Moreover, seeking after unusual 'spiritual' experiences can itself cause great harm, ruining the soul and the mind of the seeker. Such a seeking after 'spiritual' experiences can lead to spiritual delusion (Ru. prelest, Gr. plani)—the antonym of sobriety


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychast


So, the emphasis here is on experience of God, a knowledge that goes beyond the propositional. There is an emphasis on freedom here, on increasing freedom, and thereby love. This is very Buddhist in some ways but differs in being very relational and personal and not, rather, empty.

Now, read here about the distinction between God's essence and energies, and our experience of God's uncreated energies.

quote:


Abiding In The Indwelling Trinity by George A. Maloney

Excerpt - on Page 3: " ... Their loving presence as personalized relations of uncreated energies of love surrounds us, permeates us, bathes us constantly in their great loving communication ... "

Mystical Theology: The Science of Love by William Johnston

Excerpt - on Page 61: " ... distinction between the divine essence and the divine energies. This is closely related to his theology of light; for the uncreated energies are energies of light and of love. ... "

In Whom We Live and Move and Have Our Being: Panentheistic Reflections on God's Presence in a Scientific World by Philip Clayton

Excerpt - " ... to the uncreated energies of God, as well as trinitarian interpretations and the whole project of process theology. ... "

The Foundations of Christian Bioethics by H. Tristram Engelhardt Jr.

Excerpt - " ... is solved and the door found in the horizon of immanence: Christianity's disclosure of an immediate experi- ence of the uncreated energies of a radically transcendent, personal God. Here philo- sophical solutions and theological truth coincide: the truth is a Who. Such ... "


Just some food for thought. This reminds me a tad of a thread from years ago: Kundalini and the Holy Spirit