Revolution Times im Interview:

"Being nazi is a bad joke and a today' s fashion like the hippies in the 60ies!"

(Autonom # 17 - 2001)

F:We, Russian Left and Anarchists, have heard much about powerful and solid movement of Left in German. Isn't it? Or it's simply untwisted myth among Russian Left Movement?

RT: We think it' s a myth that there is a "powerfull and solid movement of the left" in Germany. In the public and in public political discussions the radical left wing movement (we don' t speak about liberal leftists or social democrats like SPD or PDS (ex-SED)) has nearly no influence. The radical left wing movement has two main projects: antifascism and anti-nuclear energy ("Anti-Castor"). But especially concerning the social question the left wing movement has no influence, the bourgeois in all of their political and social fractions determines all values and discussions. Parts of the left like the Autonomous had success in build up the myth of a strong militant antifascist movement, but their "miltance" today is only a ritual. The well known "Antifaschistische Aktion" (Antifascist Action) finished in 2001. Their politics were only concentrated on the nazis and the police brutality and had no social alternatives to capitalism, even if they often spoke of "revolutionary antifascism", etc. The nazis are getting stronger and the government and the capitalists cut our wages and rights since 1989/90 nearly every year. The standard of living has fallen since about ten years and especially if you are working class and have a family to feed life is getting harder every day (raising prices, taxes, rents; falling wages and standards). One of the problems of the German left in these days is that great parts of the left wing movement are pupils and students who want to be revolutionary, but who have no real power to fight the system. For most of the lefties 1989 and the fall of the wall, i.e. the end of the state capitalist states in Eastern Europe, was a nightmare and they lost their ideals and political reference.

F:Do Autonomists , Bolsheviks and Anarchist concur or do not owing to different political opinions?

RT: Because the lefties have all different point of views they work mostly for themselves. Sometimes they work in alliances to stop nazi marches or police violence, but there is always competition between the different political groups, organizations and parties. Some of them are more pro-state and moderate, others are more revolutionary. Some like the stalinist and some of the trotskyst groups (for example "Linksruck"/ German section of the SWP) demand money from the state (!) for the antifascist movement and also harder laws against the nazis and the prohibition of the nazi organizations. In the last summer (2000) the nazis attacked some people and bombed some jewish people. After this in many towns left organizations organized demonstrations against the nazis to use the political climate to ban the racist scum. But in most times the demonstrations were on a level like "Against the right wingers!" and nothing more. They built great "alliances agaisnt the right" and lost their political clearness. They marched and organized activities with parties like the Greens and the social democrats (who both organized the war against Yugoslavia and are also guilty for the social and political climate in Germany that encourages the nazis to march and to attack leftwing people, foreigners, etc.) or with the churches or the trade unions. A great part of the left is at the tow-rope of the government and do not have their own stand and accents in the public discussion that is fixed on the fight against "violence", "intolerance" and the "extremist" and "inhuman activities of the nazis. The racist politics of the state against "foreign criminals" and "illegal immigrants", the racist deportation politics and the whole anti-social politics against the working class which created the political and social climate where fascism could grow is not a subject of the discussions in the left and in their campaigns. The campaign of the government and the "decent" Germany is very hypocritical, because the state and the capiatlists have a tactical relation to racism. They used it in the past to divide the working class and to abolish the right of asylum in the early 90ies and discussed against the "flood of pseudo-refugees". And now they have a campaign to bring qualified workers from foreign countries to Germany ("Green Card"). They select between "good" foreigners who they could exploit and who they need for their computer industry and the "bad" foreigners, the "have-nots". This kind of politics is also "inhuman", in the same way as the "politics" of the nazi scum in form of beating, burning and murdering foreigners. The nazis and also the lefties who call for a strong state are the useful idiots of the state and the capitalists, because they help the state to get ist legitimation and the legitimation of his politics. Because all the new conditions will be used in the against the left and upcoming social movements. The left wing movement also is unable to fight the ideology of "national socialism", that a growing part of the nazis issue as their aim. It is impossible to fight the nazis with non-sense "arguments" and with only negative slogans against the nazis, but without an own social alternative to capitalism. So great parts of the left let the nazis use conceptions like socialism and do not unmask their "socialism", which means for them "full employment" in a kind of a self-supporting national capitalism, which should be free of "gathering capital" and "speculation". The "national-revolutionary" nazis do not want socialism, but a "national people ' s economy", in which bosses and workers are needed. For them problems only exist because of the "globalization" and "flexibilization" of capitalism and they do not understand the charcter of capitalism and also do not want to end the exploitation of human beings and nature.

F:There are frequent, especially on 1-st May, TV News about battle actions of militant anti-fascists and left in Russia. If Police had snare someone of the demonstrators, did he serve his sentence? And what does fascist-police system look like in Germany? Does Police often check up the people differing of color?

RT: Here in Germany on 1st May there are always "riots" in Berlin, Hamburg or other towns, but it' s most times violence who has become a ritual with no real contents, intents and aims. So this year the cops provocated the left wing people and had forbidden one of the demonstrations on 1st May in Berlin. This year about 300 people were arrested in Berlin. But we would not call the German state a "fascist police system". That plays down the role of fascism in history. Fascism was a organization of society in some European states in the 20th century under special conditions. Today the bourgeois use the "fascist history" to rule as they used the fascists in the 30ies and 40ies in Germany to rule and to smash the worker' s movement and to decrease the standard of living including wages. Fascism is one of the political forms of capitalism, but not the only criminal and cruel. In Germany today we have a state and a society dominated by capitalists and their mercenaries who try to smash all the social and political rights for which our fathers and ancestors have fought for through all the last 150 years. The ruling class is very self-confident and uses also the fascist history for their today' s politics: they decided officially to do the war against Yugoslavia in 1999 to prevent a new Auschwitz and holocaust. That was their ideological argumentation and also large parts of the liberal lefties and ex-pacifists gave applause to them because they saw no alterbnative to this - imperialist! - politics. The new ideology of the bourgeois ("antitotalitarism") is the idea of the fight of democracy (USA, Europe, etc.) against totalitarism (nazis, communists, anarchists, islamists, terrorists, etc.) As also the German police is a means and part of class society the German police acts as the executor of the anti-social and racist politics of the capital and ist political parties. Criterion of the politics is the utilization for the capitalist profits and that' s also the aim of the politics of the police, etc.. Police always checks people who seem to be immigrants and non-conform (for them = anti-social). So they use repressions also against lefties, punks, skins, homeless people, etc. In some cities it' s no more allowed to drink alcohol in the public or to beg for money. The cops alwasys protect the nazis at their marches and activities and the state also gave money to some cadres for informations (inofficial collaborators within the nazis). The antifascists are always arrested and criminalized for their "civil courage" (and "civil courage" is the thing the bourgeois always demands). And sometimes if the nazis are "too" violent so that the reputation of Germany in the world is endangered they also use repressions against the violent nazis who were too self-confident.

F:Which political position Revolution Times does follow? Maoism, Anarchism, Communism? Do You share Left movement at all, are you sharing utterly detached position? Are the editors' opinions coincident or each has his own political views?

RT: The Revolution Times exists since 1995 and is a skinhead zine who supports the ideas of RASH and SHARP and was planned as a forum for all leftwing skins. The individuals of the editorship support the left wing movement. But there are always reports and articles from friends and comrades with different political views (also anarchist, trotskyst, marxist-leninist, etc.) in it. Being Redskin for us is a political and cultural identity. The position of the editorship of Revolution Times is council communist. We don' t see the states in the East as socialist, for us they were state capitalist. In the East as now in China, Cuba or Vietnam existed also the exploitation of the working class in favour of the ruling class of state and party bureaucrats. We like the anarcists also refuse the state, the wage labour and the party. We favorisze and support the self organization of the working class. For us the self organziation of the working class is the way and aim of the social revolution. Our political positions we have till now fixed in three brochures of our "Bibliothek des Widerstandes" (Library of resistance). The first of our brochures is called "17. Juni 1953 - Arbeiteraufstand oder Konterrevolution?" ("17. Juni 1953 - workers uprising or counterreevolution?"; about the uprising of the East German workers in June 1953), the second is called "Die Kronstadt-Rebellion. Alle Macht den Sowjets, nicht den Parteien!" ("The Kronstadt rebellion. All power to the soviets, not to the parties!"; about the Kronstadt Uprising) und the third is called "Auschwitz als Alibi. Kritik des bürgerlichen Antifaschismus" ("Auschwitz as alibi. Criticism of the bourgeois antifascism"; about the bourgeois - nationalist - antifascism). With our Library we try to focus on class struggles of the past and present to analyze their contents, meanings and lessons for today' s struggles against capitalism, avantgardism, stalinism and fascism. New brochures are planned about May 1968 in France and the state capitalism in Cuba. You could also visit our Revolution Times Homepage at or write to our postal address: Revolution Times, Postlagernd, 23501 Luebeck, Germany.

F:Does the magazine write most of policy or of music scene? Or you are trying to attend for both subjects? And why do you think this way no another?

RT: We think you cannot seperate one from the other. To talk about bands is political and to talk about politics is also personal, because official politics cause most of our problems. If you go out for a drink at the weekend you could have stress with the police or nazis. If you have political activities (like doing a political zine) you could also have your fun. So where begins politics and where does it end? Life is politics, politics is life. Being non-political would mean to accept the status quo, i.e. to have no opinion of nothing. These kids are mainstream and have mainstream ideas and walk around in a rebel outfit. But this is where the ruling class wants us to be: to accept their order. So we write about things and activities concerning the skinhead scene but also the whole capitalist society (as unemployment, nazis, resistance in the past and present, etc.). We have interviewed during the last years a lot of bands like Alta Tension, Attila The Stockbroker, Brigada Flores Magon, Comrade, Erode, Les Partisans, Mr. Review, No Respect, Oi! The Arrase, Skalariak, Stage Bottles, Street Troopers, Mensi & The Angelic Upstarts, The Oppressed and a lot more of the best antifascist and anticapitalist bands in the skinhead scene. We also issued the stories and old interviews of bands like Comrade, Kortatu or The Redskins. We don' t like bands who have nothing to say than that they like beer & Oi!, aggro is cool, etc. That' s all a part of our lives, but that' s not all. Because the whole week is not a party or a gig and we have to go to work for the money we need for our flats, bills, etc. (It' s not what I want but it' s all I got" as the Radicts sung!). So because life is more than Oi! & beer we also reflect this in Revolution Times.

F:What kind of criterion is used to pick out a material for your magazine? Can the advertisement of corporations, fascist organizations be find in your magazine?

RT: In Revolution Times you could never find stuff (advertisement or articles) like pro-nazi, pro-state, pro-system, pro-bourgeois. Sometimes contrary, but always pro-working class (fun & politics). Most times we have no advertisement in the zine because we want to be independent from the money they will give to us.

F:Are you official publication of RASH-Germany or do you only support RASH? And if you are only supporter of RASH-Germany do you support them only due to their Left opinion or as well for the reason that they develop skinhead culture?

RT: Revolution Times and RASH are two things. Both were formed in 1995 independent from eachother. Revolution Times is not the official publication of RASH Germany. Our Library is a third thing. We are a part of the Redskin and RASH scene in Germany. RASH for us is one of the progressive parts in the skinhead scene. It united a lot of skins since its foundation. Since 1995 we have supported RASH by words and action. At that time (1995) we were the only zine who supported RASH. We supported RASH all over the years because of the good idea and good job it has done also in other countries like USA or Colombia in the skinhead scene. We supported RASH because of its progressive demands and role. We are skins with political left ideas so what is more intelligent than to unite and fight against our enemies in the scene than eachother as in the big world of politics. In the skinhead scene its also our aim to stop right wing influence and to unite in the fight against nazis and the system and that' s what are our communities we look for.

F:How many approximately are there skinheads in German section of RASH? What was the main reason of creation of RASH in German? Didn't German SHARPs oppose to Nazi in sufficient way?

RT: Serious question, bad to answer, because RASH in Germany is no firm organization with firm membership, etc. In the skinhead scene there is a very big fluctuation. People come and people go. Some were nazi skins and became non-political, SHARP or Redskin. Others were non-political and became nazi or went off the scene. As we are in the skinhead scene since 1993 we have seen better days. Nowadays the whole skinhead scene is becoming more worse. Drinking, boxing and posing is the important thing for most in the (non-political) scene, so that some of us used to accent our political identity (activities, demos, concerts, bands, etc.) more than the cultural. We are political and so we don' t like to be with posers or alcoholics with no mind and spine who stand for nothing and have nothing to fight for. We have no problems with antiracist skins who aren' t interested in organized politics, but make their stand against stupid and nazi scum, but we don' t like people without a brain in their head. We see RASH as a movement from below and so if you are a Redskin and active so you are a Redskin/RASH-skin. Everybody is a part of the scene and the scene only lives from the support it gets from the people of the scene itself. As there is no firm membership you couldn' t say exact how many Redskins here are around. But Revolution Times has a number of 500 copies every issue and we think here are round ca. 500 Redskins. At our International Redskin Meeting in 1998 we were 500 skinheads, punks and antifascists at the demonstration and the concert. In many towns were activities against the nazis and to celebrate the worker' s day so that not all of us were in Giessen. Redskins and SHARPs fight the scum most times united at concerts, nighters, demonstrations, etc.

F:What kind of relations are there among the RASH and SHARP movements in German? What is the radical difference among these both kindred spirit organizations?

RT: As RASH and SHARP are no organizations there are friendly and normal relations between some SHARPs and RASHs. If you live in the same town, like the same music and have the same hobbies and enemies what is closer than to fight and celebrate together. RASH and SHARP are in Germany no firm organizations with member cards, etc. We are individuals who are organized in the scene and out of it in many ways - by friendship, by comradeship, etc. The difference between SHARP and RASH is that you can support the idea of SHARP if you are antifascist, but supporting RASH means more than being antifascist: you have your own views and ideas of a society of solidarity, a society beyond capitalist profits, wage labour and exploitation, a society without rule (call it self organized, self ruled, socialist, communist, anarchist, etc.).

F:Are there, except skinheads, the other representatives of kindred subcultures, such as punk, rude-boy, hardcore mans, sXe, among RASH-Germany? What the trucks of skinheads with these subcultures?

RT: Red & Anarchist SkinHeads (RASH) is as the name says a network for left wing skinheads. RASH is supported by us, but we have - it depends on the localities, possiblities, individuals - good contacts to other subcultures as Punks, HC and other political individuals and organzations/ activists. We work together with everybody we think it is possible and needed. We are good friends with a lot of SHARPs, punks and other kids.

F:Who does generally join to RASH-Germany: skinheads traditional or SHARP's skinheads? Were there the accidents when ex nazi skinheads have joined to RASH?

RT: The skins who joined RASH and the Redskin movement over here are skins who have left wing ideas and engagements. All of us like the skinhead style (clothes. music, etc.) and all of us are left wing in a way. Some of us are longer in the scene, some not. Some are more engaged and organized than the others. But that doesn' t matter. Skins who aren' t interested in politics and for whom to fight nazis or to criticize the system is "too political" you will never find in the RASH/Redskin-movement. So because traditional skins aren' t interested in politics you will not find them in RASH, but that doesn' t mean that we don't hear old Skinhead Reggae or Soul. Most of the Ex-Boneheads who left the nazis joined the non-political skins. Some of them became SHARPs or Redskins. So there are no "accidents", because the ones in our lines have ended with their past. Some of the non-political Oi! skins are also today very right-wing (not nazi, but anti-communist, homophobic, etc.). Most of us Redskins were before Mods, Punks or Left Wingers.

F:Redskins are pugnacious guys, aren't they? Does their brave antifascism often make itself felt in street disorders, in fight actions against nazi?

RT: First at all we think violence is shit (it' s very authoritorian, but also the social revolution of the masses will be very authoritorian against the bourgeois class), but sometimes there is no possiblity to avoid it. It' s a legitime and intteligent means of self defence and active fight. To fight the scum by violence who threaten us and our lives is intelligent, to let them do with us what they want and to cry for the cops is naive and stupid (the cops also threaten us and are a part of daily class rule). And sometimes attack is the best defence.

F:Do you consider that a violence is main feature of redskin? Is the violence the life's principle of German redskins and skinhead-antifascists? Or is it only radical way of resistance movement?

RT: Violence is a main part of whole daily life as Redskin and working class itself. Sometimes this violence is physical, most times it' s ideogical or institutional, but has always its material effects on us and produces our resistance. Violence is a means and not a principle. We fight the system and its scum, sometimes by all means necessary. But if you become older, get a firm job or a family you have to be more careful not to end in jail. Violence with a cause is O.K., but without content, only for the fun is mindless shit. But violence also could and will free us. Violence will break the chains of the bourgeois class rule. And to smash scum is a litlle bit of (skinhead) liberation.

F:Do you often have to violate? Have you some districts which are better for redskins and dangerous for nazi in your city? Do any big fights take place in relations of nazi & redskins? Do SHARPs, Punks relieve you?

RT: As in every city there are places which are more safe for the nazis and some are more safe for us (like in the streets where our pubs are and comrades live). Even at Oi! concerts with bands like The Business or Cock Sparrer there are fights between some nazis and Boneheads on the one side and some SHARPs, antifascist skins, punks and us on the other side. Before the Busineess-gig in 1999 in Berlin there tried some organized nazis to come to the gig, but some Redskins attacked them so that they had to run and cried for the police' s help. With the nazis there are always fights. In the 90ies here in Luebeck there were always fights at the weekends. The nazis attacked punks and friends of us and a lot of people hunted the nazis and gave them what they deserved. We had a pub where we met called "Las Palmas" and in the street of this pub were always fights. Most times we won (we smashed them waving flags and shouting shit paroles, etc.). During nazi demonstrations there are also always attacks against the nazis. One or two years ago 6 nazi popper were in front of ska nighter and shouted "Fuck the redskins!" and after some time 50 skins came out of the pub and showed very fast the nazi scum the way home. On Ascension day 1997 we had a fight with some nazis who provoked us. They shouted to us "Fuck SHARP" and we showed them what we think of nazi scum ... The local newspaper title was "33 punks were arrested", but we were mostly skins, skingirls and only 5 punks. At the end the nazis had to defend theirselves with knives. The cops arrested us. It was really fun. Good times we very often think of. If you go to the footbal there are always some nazis, too. Sometimes they sing some racist shit paroles and in the past they attacked immigrants and lefties. But they are bunch of boring loosers. The problem with the nazis is that you see them nearly not alone on the streets. At the weekend the nazis always go in big crowds on the streets to have some aggro. Sometimes they win, sometimes they are smashed by immigrant kids, antifascists, autonomous, communists, normal kids (HC, Hip-Hop, etc.), punks or by us. If the nazis have marches the police protect them and attack antifascist demonstrators. So if you attack the brown scum in front of the cops they will catch you and put you in prison or will give you a high fine to pay. But beneath the fights with the nazis the whole life in capitalism is a big fght. A fight against scum like the nazis or against repression and arbritrariness of the cops and other state institutions. A fight against the daily conditions of life and work, against the bosses, the state, the people who own the houses we live in, etc. A fight against frustration, resignation, etc. It' s all a part of life in capitalism.

F:In addition that red skinheads stand upon workpeople's rights and occupy themselves with antiracist propaganda we know that they stand against infringements of homosexual's rights. Do you think it is actual & necessary? For what reason?

RT: Especially also in the skinhead scene there is a lot of homophobia. It' s a part of cancer which capitalism is. Homophobia is one part of the reactionary ideology to divide the working class and to tell us how we should live. The form of sexuality is a personal thing and so everybody should have the choice his form of living and having sex without making pain to someone (so we have no acceptance and respect to people who rape children, men, women or animals or to the people who produce child porn). The people who produce child porn are another ill part of this system who fucks all the poor people. But the concerned people should fight itself, they could be sure that we will be in solidarity with them in their fight for a better life and agianst prejudices.

F:Some our comrades of redskin area in Russia trust to Bolsheviks & Leninists not very much. What is your opinion to this matter? Are there any conflicts between anarchists, Marxists, Bolsheviks in RASH- Germany?

RT: As in whole society also in the Redskin/RASH-movemnet there are conflicts between the different political viewpoints (trotskyst/ leninist-stalinist/ council-communist/ anarchist). But you have to remember that RASH is only a network for the work of all left wing skins in the skinhead scene to promote clearly antifascist and (better!) clearly anticapitalist (anarchist or socialist/ communist) bands, labels, zines. RASH is a network for us left wing skins to work together in the scene, to fight the nazis and other right wing ideologies back on the basis of antifascism and a for a society without rule (doesn' t matter if you call it anarchy, socialism, communism, self organized society, soviet based society or whatever). So RASH has no explicit position to political problems. If you speak about politics out of the scene we also do not trust Bolsheviks and Leninists so much, because we are council communists and so we know what they did to our comrades in Kronstadt, the Ukraine, German Democratic Republic 1953, Hungary 1956, etc. We have analyzed the role of the leninist party in the worker' s history in our brochures so we know what they mean if they speak of "socialism". It' s totally different to what kind of socialism we are fighting for. For them a social state under rule of a "socialist" party is socialism, for us a self organized society without hierarchy, privileges, bureaucrates and classes is socialism. So our point of view is also very contrary to the point of view of the Leninists. Good books about the role of the party are Volins "Unknown Revolution" or Maurice Brintons "The Bolsheviks and the worker' s control. The state and the counter-revolution".

F:Have nazi skinhead & red skinhead some distinguishing features in their dresses? For example there are the red laces in high shoes in Russia.

RT: For some people (parts of the public, police, some nazis and lefties) it' s very important what colour of laces you wear. There are differences between the "meanings" of the colours in every country, gang, town, etc. We think everybody should wear the colours he wants to. Some of us wear red, some black, yellow or white laces. There are nazi cadres who also wear red laces beneath white and brown ones. Some punks wear also white ones. Concerning the yellow ones some say about the meaning: I hate cops/ I hate jews/ I am SHARP/ I am against bad weather, etc. What is really important is what you think and what you do. More important than the colour of the laces are buttons or badges. Some of us wear "Redskins" or "Skins gegen Nazis" (skins against nazis)- badges/buttons, some of us buttons/badges of bands like Angelic Upstarts, Banda Bassotti, The Oppressed, Kortatu, etc. or Hammer and Sickle, Red Flags, etc. The nazis wear nazi emblems, nazi badges/ buttons of Skrewdriver, Freikorps, German Reich, etc. The nazis mostly wear big boots or gym shoes, clichee t-shirts of trade marks like Pit Bull, Troublemaker, Hooligan, Doberman, etc. , total shaven heads, upper lip beards; most of us have Crop No. 1 or 2 (3 or 6 mm), some wear Ben Sherman shirts and are dressed more in the traditional skinhead style (but it depends on the personal taste and the money you can spend on clothes). The nazis try always to look very hard, some of us try to look very smart.

F:Russian traditional-skinheads consider that for skinhead there are only such main things as dress, image, beer, etc., their invariable attributes of skinhead way. They say policy is not for skinhead's mind. What is your opinion & opinion of German red skinheads on this matter?

RT: We are Redskins and so we are political. That doesn' t mean that we are into official and party politics. For us "politics" is always the politics of the street. It means to fight for our interest, hopes and rights and not for seats in the parliament, etc. Such people like you described are skins a la George Marshall, they are just bourgeois with an rebellious outfit. These people do exactly what the state and the capitalists expect from them: being consuments, being passive, ... But if you are only into beer and party you could also be an Techno kid or an Heavy Metal ... How could you be "non-political" in a world where you are always confronted with the results of the opolitics of the ruling class? Be it the price for beer or new laws?

F:Are there many girls among red skinheads? Have they equal rights with fellows in red skinhead movement in German?

RT: There is always a lack concerning girls in subcultures like the skinhead one. The girls sometimes have equal rights, but (especially in the skinhead (not Redskin) scene) very often they are only girl friend of a skinhead boy and so they are not very sharp. You could say that only 10 - 20 % of the skins are girls. It' s also an result of education, because girls are educated to little ladies and not to girls who want to have fun and take what they want. So the state of the skinhead scene is only a mirror of the state of the whole society. But only the girls could fight for their rights and place in the scene and society.

F:Is music the essential of skinhead culture? Are there many groups playing oi! music? Can you approximately say how many of then nazi, antiracist, red skinhead & apolitical groups?

RT: Serious question. Music is very important and essential, but we think it' s also very important to think and act like a skinhead. You could discuss hours about what skinhead means for you. You have to feel it and to live it then. That' s the important thing, the strong feeling inside: the pride, the hate, the anger, the power, the spine, the provocation, the joy of life and sex. Here in Germany are many Oi! and ska bands. Nearly in every town are bands. But most never came out of the test room and that' s better for all of us. Most of them are bad in the quality of the music and the lyrics, too. There are too many bands who have nothing to say. Most bands only play for the fun, some for the lyrics and the message. We can not say how many bands are there, because most of them are "non-political" and in suchg bands we are not interested. Some of them play in a grey zone between the nazis and the "non-political" scene; that means that totheir gigs always come skins, punks, and also nazis. But to answer your question. Perhaps here are 50 Bonehead bands (most of them are projects of various bands and they are finished after an album), about 40 Oi! bands and about 40 ska bands (estimated!). Clearly antifascist are only a few bands like Stage Bottles, No Respect, Loikaemie (but also anticommunist), etc. most of the ska bands are clearly antifascist (for example Mother' s Pride). Perhaps here are 8. - 10.000 skins in Germany. You can say 60 % are nazis, 30 % are non-politicals and 10 % SHARP, Redskin or clearly antifascist. We can' t say it clearly because there is a big fluctuation and there are many loosers on the streets who think a pair boots, a shaven head and a lot of mindless violence made a real skinhead. The most of them have nothing to be proud on than their police records.

F:Which labels writing by left & antifa skinhead groups are in German except Mad Butcher? What is opinion of red skinheads regarding this label in German? I had heard that they didn't like anarchists greatly, did they?

RT: Mad Butcher has done a very good work through all the years. Mad Butcher organized tours and released good music stuff. The political views of them and us are different, but that doesn' t matter, because we all love the same culture and style of music and living. And we also don' t like the positions of all Redskins, but we work together in the scene, outside the scene everybody supports and does what he thinks what is important or necessary. Other clearly antifascist labels are Knock Out Records or Grover Records/ Moskito Mailorder. They do a good work. Also Cable Street Beat, they organize tours and work together with Mad Butcher Records. In the past there was Nightmare Records (still finished). Black Pearl Records is another label of an antifascist skin, who produces good stuff like Intensified, Inciters, etc. Also a lot of punk labels like Bad Taste, Fuckin' People, Nasty Vinyl, etc. exist and produce good stuff. I think when you speak about Mad Butcher Records and their relation to anarchists you remember the interview in the Spanish zine "Resistencia Redskin" # 3, where they said: "I' m not interested in any anarchist organisation. One thing that I cannot understand is that communists try to work together with anarchists. I think they are not really enemies, but it' s a kind of politics I can' t accept!". Beneath this ideas Mad Butcher released the new album of No Respect "Tunes of decline" , who are anarchists. We think for the scene Mad Butcher does a good work, about their political positions you could dispute.

F:Is any RASH-musican bands in Germany? How often you organise left-wing skinheads gigs?

RT: There is no official RASH-band in Germany, but in some bands there are skins who support not only the SHARP, but also RASH. At our meetings bands like Stage Bottles or Tornados played for us. No Respect is another band where leftwing skinheads are involved who are anarchists. Organizing concerts is very expensive, because most of the clubs are commercial. The first week in June 2001 the German anarcho-syndicalist FAU organized a German tour of the Paris RASH-band Brigada Flores Magon. And in the last years Angelic Upstarts and other left skinhead bands like Stage Bottles, Attila The Stockbroker, etc. played many times in Hamburg and other German towns. This weekend is also an antifascist skinhead festival in the Ruhrpott with bands like Frontkick. Mad Butcher and Cable Street Beat beneath local comrades and initiatives organize a lot of gigs and tours.

F:You know, a lot of people in Russia thinks that skinheads are nazi. But have you same stereotype in German?

RT: It' s absolutely the same here in Germany. Sometimes you can read different articles, but most times they tell the people the same shit about skinheads as the whole people about capiatlist society: only lies to kill our minds and hopes. That' s the power of the press.

F:What would you like to say to Russian nazi which introduce yourselves as skinheads?

RT: We would say to Russian Nazis: What are you proud of? What are you fighting for? You are wearing clothes which are designed by Jewish people like Fred Perry (Polo shirts) and worn by American bomber pilots (bomber jackets). If you bought boots of Doc Martens you also supported Anti-Fascist Action, because Dr. Martens gave for every sold pair of boots a little bit of money to AFA. You listen to music from other countries and copy a British fashion style. Beneath this being a nazi for Russians is very stupid and silly. For your German comrades you are shit, because slavonian people are for them "subhumans". During World War II the German nazis saw themselves as "master race" and treated the Russian, Polish, Czech people as rubbish. That' s the same for Black or Polish nazis. You are proud to be something special like all the other nazis. If you would live in Germany it could be that some German nazis would kill you ... Being nazi is a bad joke and a today' s fashion like the hippies in the 60ies. People earn your money who are not into your music and style. For some of them your music is only another possiblity to become rich. And if you attack immigrant people or punks - what changes in your live? If you are unemployed you will get no job through your "actions". Fight the real enemy of your daily life: capitalist system! Blame the bosses in politics and economy for the fact that they divide, exploit, etc. us. If we follow their ideology of nationalism and racism we are slaves of their world and profits.

F:How do you think is it right way to develop RASH on the area of ex USSR? Have you any wishes for skinheads living here?

RT: It would be a little bit arrogant to say what the right way for you is. Russian Redskins, don' t give up the fight. You have your strong believes, your strong priciples, your attitudes, you live your life - that' s important. Go your way, men! Don' t care what the people say, 'coz skinhead is also to act like you think and to say this. And sometimes it' s a lonely road and a hard way to go, especially if you are not mainstream, i.e. if you are not "non-political", racist or clichee skinhead/redskin. Here in our city many years there were no straight skins, then there were and now the scene in whole of Germany is going down - too much "non-political" scum and party politics fucking shit ... But we keep the flag of freedom and proletarian revolution flying high ... To do a fanzine, a homepage, to start a band or an infoshop is the beginning for a active scene. All the best for you and go your way - don' t matter what the people say, you could be the master of your life! As Stage Bottles sing: "It' s not our time, but we carry on!".

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