Interview April 22, 2002, conducted by David Lee Wilson

Easily the best know of Progressive-Rock keyboardists, Rick Wakeman has
served dually as unparalleled fan favourite and central target for
music-critic's spikiest barbs. Through all extremes and into the
middle, where most of us reside, there has always been the undeniably
brilliant music and at the end of the day it isn't it the music that
matters most?

In a career that spans the better part of three decades Wakeman has
produced some eighty discs of original work with several score more
live/in concert recordings or "Best of" packages and this doesn't begin
to take in his work as a guest musician on projects from artists as far
afield as David Bowie, BLACK SABBATH, and Cat Stevens. To say Wakeman
has been a prolific artist would be a gross understatement, it would
also be an injustice, for the quantity of his work would belie the
consistent quality, and what is more, the man isn't near done yet.

Though it is but a fraction of his life's work product, Wakeman's time
with YES is easily his most impacting on the mass audience. As a member
of Progressive-Rock's Highest Lords, Wakeman can be heard in sonic battle
both beside and often against the rest of YES, with the results leaving
no less an impression than to have songs and performances by all others
in the field measured by the YES standard. Something as majestic as
"Close to the Edge" or as unceasingly catchy as "Roundabout" simply
couldn't have been done by any other collection of musicians, and as the
good gods of Rock and Roll would have it, Wakeman is once again a member
of YES.

The incomparable fusion of inspiration, creativity, and emotive power
that is a Wakeman included YES, will test the waters for both chemistry
and sustainability as they embark on a North American tour this summer,
at the end of which all parties will consider their futures together, or
apart, as the case may be. In tandem with his YES work, Wakeman will
also offer up new recordings with his own solo group, several catalog
re-issues, and if circumstances allow, an extensive library series of
cleaned and polished "official bootlegs. " You might want to put in for
the overtime now to pay for all of this, but if squeezed to choose only
one, start with either the "JOURNEY TO THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH" or "LIVE
IN BUENOS AIRES" DVD collections. Each one is prime Rick Wakeman and
comes with a bonus CD of rare live performances.

Catching Wakeman with some spare time to talk was a bit tricky, but the
good folks at Classic Pictures made it happen, and below is a bit of chat
to consider whilst waiting for the YES tour to hit town, and the music to
hit the store shelves.

DAVID LEE You have always kept a busy schedule of projects going for
yourself, but word has come that in addition to all that you are also
once again a member of YES?

RICK WAKEMAN Oh, it is just mental at the moment. I am not complaining but
it is
mental!(laughs) It's so busy. It is ruining my golf, but apart from that it
is just great.

DL Well something has to give, right?(laughs)

RW Oh, absolutely.

DL Well, I for one, really didn't expect to see you work with YES again,
especially on a touring basis. Who was it that initiated the reunion of
the Wakeman inclusive YES?

RW It was one of those things, how can I say it, I guess one of those
things that happened "softly-softly" more than anything else I suppose.
There were a few things that opened doors for it. I was on the "THIS IS
YOUR LIFE" program in England a few years back, and YES appeared on that
by video and Steve (Howe) mentioned way back then, "You know it would be
nice if we could all work together again." That was really nice, and
then Eagle Rock , who did the DVD of "MAGNIFICATION" with the orchestra,
contacted me last year to say that they were doing the DVD of the show in
Amsterdam, and asked would I like to join them for that performance.
I wrote back and said, "I would love that, I would be happy to do that."
Then they came back with the date, and I said, "Oh that is not OK, I am
going to be in Peru unfortunately. Look, I am in South America with my
band from this date to this date, but if you want to do any other time,
that would be fine." Unfortunately, Eagle Rock came back and said, "This
is the only show that we can do, the one in Amsterdam, Holland, but
thanks all the same." That, in a strange way, sort of started to open
doors for the future, made it a possibility, you know, because I have
always enjoyed playing with the guys, and it is really all about timing
and a feel good factor, and it just felt good for me to want to go out
and do the Amsterdam thing, and they obviously wouldn't have asked me if
there wasn't an equal feel good factor coming back the other way.  Anyway,
that was that, and then came the next stage, through a company
called "Classic Pictures", which is probably the best DVD film company
for Classic Rock, and their boss Robert Garofalo was over in LA
speaking with Alan Kovak at Left Bank Management; and he came back to
England and phoned to suggest I went in for an informal meeting with him.

My offices are based around where Classic Pictures are in Shepperton
Studios, and Robert and I are good friends. I walked in, and he turned
'round to me and simply said, "Uh, how do you fancy playing with YES
again?" I said that I would actually love to, and that I missed the guys
in a lot of ways. I asked him, "Why do you ask?" He said, "I think
that something is about to happen!" Then Alan Kovak was on to my office
and basically everybody was up for it, and now the situation is that
everybody is really looking forward to it, and thinks that it can be
really good in every way. So all that is left is for the powers that be
to dot "I's" and cross "T 's." For us to have decided that we wanted to
do it takes about thirty seconds, for the powers that be to put it all into
writing takes about eight months!(laughs)

DL Mustn't forget the lawyers now.(laughs)

RW Yes, but having been divorced three times, I am used to all that so
it is fine, we just carry on getting things together anyway.

DL At least in this type of divorce there isn't someone walking out of
your house with half of your possessions, I suppose? (laughs)

RW No, though in divorces in England you walk out of your house with
few of your possessions, and leaving most of your life as well!

DL You walk out of the house?

RW Yeah, you walk out of the house and leave almost everything
including so many possessions, and I seem to be really good at that.

DL Well then, I do know that the music world will be happy to see you
walk back into the house of YES, anyway.

RW Well, I am happy about it. You know, the thing that is really hard
explaining to people is that I have always been a fan of YES, and people
sometimes find it hard to equate to the fact that you can actually be in
a band and be a fan as well. And the simple fact is that I am a fan even
when I am not in the band. The thing that I do know and understand about the
band, is that YES is a band of equal give and take. You have to draw from
both the band and the other members in the same way that you have to give
equally back, and so it is a real fifty-fifty give and take situation. If you
are ever in a situation where you really feel that, "Hey, I have got
something to give. . . and something to take back", then that is the time
that YES is really at its strongest. I suppose that has been a huge part of
the decision to say, "Yeah, I would love to go and play with the guys again",
before it was even put
together. I have been away for a little bit, the same for the other guys.
You work with other people, and you get new influences, and you get new ideas
and new equipment, so you always want to walk into the first rehearsal with a
little musical bag under your arm and say, "Hey, listen, these are the
things that I am bringing." That is really important, I think, to any band.

DL From many a fan perspective, mine included, the last time YES came
through it was slightly bizarre to see YES with an orchestra but sans a
fully integrated keyboard player not to mention without one the caliber
of a Rick Wakeman.(laughs)

RW I was trying to get to see them when I was in Italy. I spend a lot
of time in Italy because my girlfriend is Italian, and what was really
strange was that people were calling and saying, "Can you get me
tickets?" And I said, "No, I can't get you tickets."  "Well, don't you
get any being in the band?", and there was this sort of this general
impression in Italy that I was still there anyway, which in some ways is
very flattering,but I said, "No, I am not there anymore." (laughs)
Unfortunately, I couldn't stay and see the show because I was stuck in
Jakarta, or somewhere on the other side of the world when they finally came
to Italy. I didn't see that tour, and it wasn't because I didn't want to go,
it was literally because I couldn't match up any dates to go and see it
because I was out with my band, but I would like to have seen one of the
shows.

DL It certainly sounded good, but there was definitely some flash
missing. The last record, "MAGNIFICATION" was one of my favorites too.
Will there be new YES music with Rick Wakeman, or will you start with the
tour and see how it goes from there?

RW What we are doing this time around is obviously going straight out to
play, and so if you are going to do that, you go out with what already
exists. It has never worried me to play stuff that I didn't originally play
on, or even if I have never played the music at all. So I am very happy to
play anything off of "MAGNIFICATION", or whatever, it really doesn't worry me
at all.  There are of course, pieces I like more than others, and some I am
not fond of, but that is no different from any other YES fan.  The only
thing that I say is, please don't ask me to play the identical notes that
whomever was there before did, because I won't do it. (laughs)  Obviously I
will keep the whole flavor of the things, but I would like to add my own
colour. Obviously, if there is an important theme, you play it, but
elsewhere you need that freedom to put some of your own self in.  As a
comparison, you don't put Steve Howe in and ask him to play the notes that
Trevor may have played , so that is it
really, and I am very happy to play.  I think that it will be a mixture of
old and new, and YES is no different than any other band that has been around
for a long time.  As an analogy, if you went to see a Frank Sinatra concert,
when he was alive, if he didn't sing "New York, NewYork" or "My Way" then
you went home disappointed, and it is the same way with YES, if you don't hear
"Roundabout" and you don't hear "Awaken", or whatever else people really want
to hear, then people are equally as disappointed, so there is always a
starting point of where you can go from.

DL And you are chopping at it with twenty minute bites at a time, so
there goes the set!(laughs)

RW (Laughing) Yeah, that is true, but then at the end of the American
tour, which I think finishes at the end of August, I would think that
decisions will be made about where else to go and where the future lies.

DL Right. It will be nice for another generation to see you with YES,
my son for instance is a big fan in fact. He saw you on the "JOURNEY TO
THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH" DVD, and immediately ran and got his "Dracula cape"
and started pounding away on his keyboard waving his hair, it was funny.
Anyway, this will be his, and kids of his age, first chance to see
the band with you in it.

RW Oh, brilliant. Well, the cape thing is really funny. As you can see from
the live DVD, "LIVE IN BUENOS AIRES," they are on again! That came about in
a strange way. I mean I stopped wearing them years ago because there comes a
stage in your life when you think that you have to grow up, and that came in
the early eighties for me. I thought, "You know I have got to grow up here,
act your age Wakeman!" That is what I did for ages when I was out with my
band, much more conservative with everything, and that was it. I thought,
"You are getting older, grow up." Then about three years ago, I was invited
to go with my band to do about twelve shows in South America, (which has
always been a big market for me to play), and so I said, "Fine, I haven't
been down there for a few years." They said that they would like for us to
do a couple in Buenos Aires, two or three in Rio, and we said, "Great!" They
talked to my manager, and the usual things were done and the deal was struck,
but then I got called in by my agent and he said, "I want you to have a
quick look at this contract." I looked through it quickly and said that it
looked alright and he said, "Wait, read the bit at the bottom."  And it
said, "Mr. Wakeman will appear in at least one of his original capes. . ."
I started laughing and said, "This is a gag, isn't it?" So, I sent them an
e-mail down and said, in the nicest sense, "This is a bit of a gag, isn't
it?"  And the guy wrote back and said, "No, this is very serious, and you
have got to understand that Prog-Rock is now very big in South America, and
there are a lot of the young kids who are coming that have never seen you
before, but all the pictures that have ever been printed of you down here
show you roaming around wearing the capes, so they are all expecting to see
them, therefore you will wear
them!" (laughs)  I thought, "OK." And I got a couple of them out from the
mothballs, although most of them had been sold in charities over the years.
But I found a couple of them, and they were sadly in terrible condition, and
so my girlfriend, who used to be a chief designer for Channel and Gucci, said
"Give them to me and I will re-furbish them."  So, they were completely
refurbished, and when we arrived at the first show in Buenos Aries, I said to
my band, who are very young apart from my drummer Tony, who has been with me
for years, "OK, guys here is the situation, we all get changed, and then I
want you all to meet in my room twenty minutes before we walk on stage so
that you can have a good laugh and get it out of your system."  And they all
said, "Why?"  "You' ll see!" I said.  They all left and I pulled out the big
cape and put it on, and they all came back in and it was a mixture of stunned
amazement and hilarity!  The funny thing was that I walked out on the stage
and the place went completely bonkers, and I probably played some of the best
music that I ever played! It was like putting the uniform back on, you know?
I mean, you only become a policeman when you put the uniform on, you only
become a Fire Fighter or a Nurse when you put the uniform on, although I
quite like nurses uniforms. .........Anyway, that is bye the by.(laughs)
Anyway, you know what I mean, and it was really weird, but the guys all said,
"You have got to wear these all the time!"  It is really strange.  What I
had forgotten was that there are two personas within me, it is almost a
Jeckyl and Hyde situation, and it was not like putting the clock back, but it
was like remembering what it was like.  So, they have stayed!  It is
interesting, but sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.(laughs)

DL It is kind of like people will snatch pieces of wood from off of the
shack that Muddy Waters grew up in, and craft it into a guitar with the
thought that maybe that wood has soaked up some of the music, perhaps
the same applies to the capes?

RW Yeah, well you know it is strange. We went out and played a couple of
shows in Russia, and the case with the capes never showed up. I mean, we got
it in the end, but we went on and did the show without it, and I felt naked!
It was really weird, really bizarre but there you go! (laughs)

DL Will the commitment to YES kind of slow the production of Rick
Wakeman solo projects, and the other things that you have been involved
with?

RW What I am desperately trying to do is to finish off what I have been in
the process of doing for the last year or so in-between touring, and that is
what I call a "True" Prog-Rock album.  I have been working on that for the
last year and half now with the band.  Not solidly in the studio, but every
spare opportunity that we have had we have been doing more and more bits and
pieces on it, and it is an album that I tried to put together about two years
ago. I won't call it a "follow up", but it is working along the same lines as
"NO EARTHLY CONNECTION."  By which I mean, that it is being recorded in the
same way, working with the band in the studio, changing things and not being
frightened to throw things out, and put things back in again, and really spend
a bit of time on doing all the tiny bits and pieces. Now we getting close to
finishing and I have got to finish that by the end of May, because we have to
shoot it to Blue Screen for the DVD to be done, and that would come out, I
would think, somewhere around the end of September, or something like that.
So, that is what I am working on to get done . "OUT OF THE BLUE" which is
the live album from Buenos Aires and is different from the DVD, (which was a
different show with mostly different music), is going to come out in America
next month.

DL Your music is obviously well thought out by you, but when you are in
a "band" situation as you are with this project, do you bring in finished
compositions for the other musicians to give an interpretation, or do you
allow for a bit of "jamming" to get the final piece?

RW  No, this time around I have not scored them all out.  What is different
and interesting with this album, compared to the other albums that I have
done over the last fifteen or twenty years, is that I have not actually had a
fixed band until now.  So, in the past, I have been getting in really good
musicians, and getting them to play parts that I want them to play on the
pieces. So it was always very much a solo album with really good musicians on
it. This time around, because I have had the band together for three years,
they sort of know each other very well, and so they play together a lot
differently than just bringing musicians together that don't know each
other.  The advantage is that
they know each other's strong points and weak points, and so you play to the
strong points.  What I did was to get the guys in and said, "You have a
certain style in the way that you do this or that, and I want you to do this
there and that there, but within the freedom of how you would like to play
it."  So, they are able to, in the music, offer their own particular style
and I have not been able to do that since the "NO EARTHLY CONNECTION" album
back in the late seventies.  It actually sounds like a unit.  The best
analogy to use would be that if you were to book the Boston Symphony
Orchestra, and then you also booked an Orchestra made up of some of the
finest musicians that there are going, and you got them to play the same
piece, you would spot the Orchestra
straight away because they would play more as a unit than as the pick-up
Orchestra, even if they were the greatest musicians. And that is what I
suppose makes this album a little bit different. This is guys that know
each other well, and rather than just play the music, are playing together.

DL Has there been occasion for one of them to bring you a piece of
music that was worked on the same as if you brought it in?

RW The thing was that I had the basic idea and the basic music for this
album right from the start.  I mean, certainly pieces of music have changed
and ideas have changed, but having said that, one of the ideas for the future
may well be to perhaps look at having a "band" album where I could have
other people bring in writing. But the difficulty is that with any band, if
somebody brings writing, and it is not right, then you can really upset people
by refusing it.  I mean someone has to say, "Oh, that won't work"  You can
really upset people, and that is the last thing that you want to do.
Somebody may bring something, and if it is really naff, does it go in or do
you say "I will use some of it just to keep them happy."  Where do you go
with that?  Do you know what I mean?

DL Yes, appeasement can ruin the whole of whatever it is you are doing
I would think.

RW Yeah, it can, and in essence it is still a solo project, though I am
still using the band.

DL Is it conceivable that you will be able to take this record out to
perform live given the commitments to YES?

RW Obviously, life has come down now to what can be called, "musical
priorities" and my musical priority starting July the first, is obviously
YES. Then I will very much expect Left Bank, the YES office, to say, "Here
are our plans", and once we have got those plans, and with clearance that
there are gaps in which there is freedom for the individuals, then I will
continue to work (on the solo material), because I love to play, just as I
know Steve has done for example.  I know that during the gaps in their
schedule, he has gone off and done solo shows in the UK, and other places and
I would like to do
the same with my band, and/or on my own in the UK ,or even perhaps in
America or wherever, but that would be slotted in amongst the YES
schedule, rather than being pre-organized and just hoping that it will fit
in. I would have to look at the whole YES schedule, and take it from
there.

DL Right, and like Steve Howe, you have managed to produce progeny to
fill some of the musical spaces that you just can't get to! (laughs) I
think that I wrote, of one of your discs, that you "were not above
nepotism."

RW (Laughing) Ah yes, well, they are all in the music game actually. My
oldest boy, Oliver, he has had about five albums out in the UK, and I think
that a few are available by export .  He is my thirty year old eldest son,
and he is a great player, he is really good.  Adam (28) is a wonderful
player, and he comes out when I go out with the band, and we have great fun on
stage together, but he also does a lot of stuff on his own, and has his own
solo career, and has been running all sorts of bands, from Prog-Rock bands to
some of the all-girl bands. He has been out with ATOMIC KITTEN and with
Victoria Beckham recently, and I don't think that any of us would object to
going out with four of probably the most desirable women in Rock, although I
don't think his wife was too overwhelmed with it, but there you go. (laughs)
So, he is doing well, and it is nice that we do get the chance to play
together, which is not very often, but when we do it is lovely.  I am proud of
them all really!  My daughter has a publishing and recording contract.  She
is nineteen and a wonderful singer, great writer and good piano player too.
My sixteen year old boy Oscar is a drummer, and luckily as his Mom and I are
divorced, I don't get to hear him play deafeningly loud in the house.
(laughs)  Mind you, I don't get to see the house!  Then I have a twenty-four
year old boy, Ben, in Switzerland, and he is producing electronic music
programs.  So, they are all at it and I am just hoping that they are all
very, very successful, because not only are they the ones who will have to
look after me in my old age, but they are also the ones who will choose what
retirement home I go into! (laughs)

DL Yes, and you can be sure it won't be one of the ones that you
actually bought in your youth.(laughs)

RW Oh, no, you can be rest assured of that. It will probably be some shed
somewhere. (laughs) "Where is Granddad?" "We put him in the shed."

DL Isn't that what happens to most Granddads though?

RW Yeah. I will tell you what was really funny, I have sort of been hassling
them for Grandchildren because both of my oldest two are married, and I said
"Hey, come on now, isn't it about time I had some grand children, I am
fifty-three this year, I want some grandchildren!"  And Adam was really
funny, he said, "You know what Dad, do you know what it is really going to
be like when you do have some?  We will have children and they will be about
five years old, and we will say, Come on kids, let's go and see Grandpa.  And
they will say, Oh no!  He is going to get all of his gold discs out, he is
going to tell us about YES at Madison Square Garden, then he is going to put
the video on of "YESSONGS" and Oh, do we have to go?" (laughs)  It would
make for a great sketch, and there is probably an element of truth in it
too! (laughs)

DL Alright, stepping completely to the side for a minute here, I have
read that you are a devout Christian which, and I almost feel like I
should apologize for thinking this, but it almost seems that artists of
your success and acumen tend towards Atheism, or even Eastern
philosophies, where is it that your faith in Christianity comes from?

RW Yes, well, I suppose it started when I was young. My Grandfather was a
Lay-preacher, my Father was a deacon at a Baptist Church in London, but
having said all of that, I was never forced to go to church or anything. I
made all of my own decisions, and if I didn't want to go I didn't go.  I made
my own choices on that front.  I suppose that I am the sort of Christian
that other Christians either love or hate, because I have the utmost respect
for all other religions and for all other beliefs, providing they are used
for the good of mankind.  I am not one, even though I believe that I have
found the answer for me, to turn around and say that everyone else is wrong,
because they don't believe as I do.  I believe that everyone is an
individual, and I also believe,
in a strange way, that there are not hundreds of gods out there, there is
actually just one, and that all the different religions and beliefs are
actually looking in the same direction, but all in different ways.  Now a
lot of Christians go up in arms when I say things like that, but I don't
care, because that is what I believe.  I am just a normal person who likes to
believe that I live in the real world, and I have my own strong faith, and my
own belief, but it doesn't change my attitude on how I look at other people.
I do not judge other people, and subsequently I do not expect to be judged,
if you know what I mean.  I mean, I have had wonderful conversations with
Cat Stevens for example, who is now Yusef Islam.  We have had some
interesting phone calls, but you know, I have as much respect for him as I
know he has for me, and I have got loads of friends from all religions.  I
have got Jewish friends, I have even got Atheistic friends, I have got
Agnostic friends, I have got all sorts of friends from all sorts of
religions.  I don't walk up to people and say, "Hello, what do you believe
in?"  I have got my own feelings, which are important to me, and which help
me in my own way, but everybody is different.  My faith is not open to
discussion, and I will not be drawn into debate about my beliefs.  It is
private and I am answerable only to god, not the human race.

DL Have you seen, or maybe "felt" is the better term to use here, have
you felt a "spiritual" impact on your music in any way?

RW  Um, that is really hard to answer.  I mean, what I do is to keep the two
separate. I mean, I have written some "religious music," call it whatever
you like, but the truth is there is no such thing really as "religious
music." There are, of course, religious words, but you can't write a piece of
instrumental music and say, "This is a religious piece of music", because it
is the words that really make it what it is.  I love writing for Choirs, and
the best Choral music in the world is religious Choral music. It is what
most of the best stuff was written for, and I have done quite a lot of that
and enjoyed it, but I keep it
separate and don't mix and match the two.

DL Hopping from that to what very conservative Christians would call
the antithesis of Religious music, I want to ask you about your
experiences with BLACK SABBATH through the years.

RW Oh, Ozzy is one of my greatest friends.

DL You have performed on each other's records at different times,
right?

RW Yes, Ozzy and I go back donkey's years really. In fact, Tony Iommi
is also a great, great friend of mine, and Geezer I have known for Donkey's
years as well. You know, YES and BLACK SABBATH toured together?

DL Yes, what a bill that must have been! (laughs)

RW Yes, back in the early seventies.  I have always been great friends with
Ozzy and I am just one of Ozzy's greatest admirers. I just think the world
of Ozzy.  There is a lot more to him than meets the eye.  When anybody ever
says to me, "Oh, Ozzy is just a Heavy Metal singer"  I just throw them the
"OZMOSIS" album and say, "Listen."  It is the closest thing that I can
describe as "Progressive Metal".  I mean, you listen to tracks like "Perry
Mason" or whatever, that is Progressive Metal.  It is The Tubes meet Heavy
Metal meets whomever.  I did some stuff with them originally way back in
1973 on the "SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH" album, which I really enjoyed and then I
did the "OZZMOSIS" album, and then I phoned up Ozzy when I was doing "RETURN
TO THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH" and said,
"Ozzy, I have written this song which I would like you to sing" and he went,
"Yeah, OK, can I hear it."  I said, "Of course, but what I am going to do is
take most of the heavy riffs that I played on guitar off after you do the
vocal, and then I am going to stick them all back on played by the London
Symphony Orchestra."  The upshot was that he loved it, and it was really
tremendous what he did.  I know that he loves the track dearly and we had
great fun doing it.  I would like to do more things with Ozzy, although he is
a big TV star now. (laughs) The good old "OSBOURNES."  I just heard that
there is a new series just announced.

DL Yes, I guess they have upped their asking price per episode from
$20,000, to something like 2 million a piece, must be nice, I
guess.(laughs)

RW Yeah, I heard that this morning, which is fantastic.  You know, Ozzy and
Sharon, I mean I can put my hand on my heart and say that I love the pair of
them dearly, I really do.  They have had just one amazing life of ups and
downs and they really deserve every success.  I am so pleased for them, I
really am.

DL Yes, they have definitely ridden out the crest and fall of many a
wave.(laughs)

RW Yes, well when Ozzy arrives at the Pearly Gates, (and strangely enough I
think that he will get there), St. Peter will probably say, "Oh boy, where
do I start?" But they will have to let him in. (laughs)

DL He does seem to be moving to that contemplative point in his life
too, no more bat biting and such.(laughs)

RW You know, I have sat down and had dinners with Ozzy, and had talks over a
cup of coffee, a glass of wine or whatever, and I have just had some great
conversations with him. You can have fun conversations with Ozzy, you can
have deep conversations with Ozzy, and you know, he is a bright boy.

DL You did some playing on a later day BLACK SABBATH disc, when Tony
and Geezer where alone in the band, was it "CROSS PURPOSES?"

RW (Laughing) You could be right!  It rings a bell.  Can you remember
what year that was?

DL I think it was like '93 or '94. I was going to ask what your
memories were of that, but I can see that it wasn't all that
memorable.(laughs)

RW Um, I can't remember! Alzheimer's rules my brain right now. (laughs)
I'll pass on that one.  I do recall going and doing that actually.  You know
Tony is such a nice man and he is such a good player.  I am afraid that I am
old school though you see, because I am a fan of SABBATH and always
have been, and I just think that SABBATH is at its best when you have "The"
line-up, and that is nothing against anything that has gone on during other
periods, but there is something quite special about Ozzy standing in front of
Mr. Iommi, it takes a bit of beating.  And then with Bill bashing away, Bill
is a good drummer you know, and I am really very fond of all of them, really.

DL The DVD packages that you are releasing through Classic Pictures are
interesting packages in that not only do they have great performances on
DVD, each one also comes with a bonus CD that contains a "bootleg"
concert, whose idea was that?

RW What we are trying to do is kill the bootleggers.  I'd like to
literally do that as it happens, but apparently it's illegal.  You know
what is a killer, is that at this present time we know of 111 bootlegs of
my stuff out there, and it is destroying everything I am trying to do.
What is happening now, is that in some countries it is not even just
"live" bootlegs, it is music actually taken off of the records and
financially it just kills you stone dead.  It is really hard, because in
some territories the label will say, "You know what the problem is, it
is already flooded here with this, this, and this."  And we will say,
"Well yes, but those are all illegal" and they say that there is not much
that they can do about it.  And it is a huge, huge problem.  At the time
when "LIVE IN BUENOS AIRES" came out, I got a not particularly good
bootleg, but it was one that was selling like crazy in the UK because it
was the only one that had my girl singer, Chrissie Hammond, on it and as
she is very popular over here, people were buying it, and I thought,
"Right, we will give it away and that will kill it!".  Actually it has
killed the bootleg stone dead.  So, now what we are looking at doing, and
will be done next year is to reproduce, at special bargain prices,
every bootleg.  We will have them all re-done with additional things, and
all nice packages, and we are just going to fight the bootleggers at
their own game.

DL DEEP PURPLE has done something like that, only they put them out as
box-sets with hours and hours of stuff that they cleaned up.

RW Yeah, Frank Zappa was the first to do it actually.

DL Yes, I remember that, "BEAT THE BOOTS" he called it, I think.

RW Yeah. You see what people don't realize is that the money is going out of
the industry, and for us bands and musicians.  If you want to make albums,
studios cost money, and the musicians that you use cost money, and none of
this comes for free, and if none of the money is coming back to the musicians
to make new music, and all goes to the bootleggers, then nobody is helping
anybody.  Sometimes, you will get fans on the website saying, "Oh I bought
this or that" and I say, "Well, no disrespect, you are not fans because it
just doesn't help."  There was a crazy situation where I got an e-mail, (if
this wasn't so sad it would be funny), but I got an e-mail from a friend of
mine in Brazil saying, "Congratulations, the "LIVE IN BUENOS AIRES" DVD is
number three in the Brazilian DVD charts, and that is competing with major
feature films and everything."

So, I got a hold of Classic Pictures and said, "Hey this is good news!" and
they said, "No, not really, because it is not out for another two weeks!"  It
has basically just been cloned and copied and put out, and so now they are
wondering if it is worth putting out there at all, because it has already
done fifty or sixty thousand DVDs, and all of the money has gone to the
bootleggers.  So, you start looking at all of these things, and it all adds
up really quickly.  There is a guy that I am dealing with over in England
who is looking at reproducing all the bootlegs, and if this actually works he
will do it every time a bootleg comes along.  If anybody wants to get
involved, then he will just keep on the search for all bootlegs of all
artists, and when they come he
will inform the artist, and if they are willing, he will basically legalize
it and pay them a royalty.

DL Imagine, being paid for your work!(laughs)

RW Right, and it is all paid, the proper publishing and the proper royalties,
and in the process putting it out at a price that kills the bootleggers. I
think that it is a marvellous idea, and I just hope that it works. I don't
mind, for example, if somebody comes along and records a live concert and it
is not going to come out. I can understand people wanting that, and that is
how bootlegs really started. It was a great concert that people wanted a
memory of, and it was never going to come out, that is what people did; but
now it has really gotten high tech, and there are people doing DVDs where
people will go in with pencil camcorders in their hats and things, and it has
gotten really
sophisticated now. Yeah, I don't get on my high horse about it because you
can drive yourself potty doing that, so I just say, "What can I do about it?"
and this is it.

DL Well, in this instance it is great "bonus" material for the DVD.

RW Well, you know, it is sort of a mixture of value for money and something
a little bit different that you are trying to give.

DL With the ability to listen to all of the bootlegs that you are
finding and all of the legitimate recording that you have written and
performed, is there one that has come close to being a full
representation of what Rick Wakeman is all about as and artist?

RW It is very hard because to some extent, music is for the moment that it is
done and should never really be retrospect. People will come to me and say,
"Oh that wasn't very good" and I will say, "Well, at the time it was because
at the time I believed that it was, or I wouldn't have put it out." If I
didn't think it was right at the time, I wouldn't have done it, but having
said that and listening back twenty years, you sometimes think, "Given a
second crack at that I wouldn't have done it like that. I wonder why I did?"
You look at the various situations around it and things like that.  Playing
wise, that is a real mix there.
Last year I did a piano album, I love to play piano, and it was called
"CLASSICAL VARIATIONS", which was based on variations of some of my favorite
classical pieces.  Playing wise and piano wise, I was very pleased with that,
and I am not convinced that I could sort of play with any better feeling.

I look back and I suppose the theme for "King Arthur," the main theme, was I
suppose as near damned perfect for my type of thing as I could have hoped
for.  I write thematically, and I can still listen to that and say, "Yes,
that is a good theme there. I have written lots of other themes, but probably
the "King Arthur" theme is for me a very strong element of something that I
have done. It is hard really, because what has to be understood is that no
writer can ever listen to his music for the first time, and that is really
tough, because familiarity breeds acceptance before it breeds contempt, so if
you play something long enough, you get so used to it that you can convince
yourself that, that is absolutely right. What you can't do is ever listen
for the first time to that finished article, it is like a writer can never
read his own book for the first time, and that is what is really difficult,
and I think that is
where there often gets to be a bit of a misunderstanding between journalists
and musicians and writers and whatever.  It has happened to me on numerous
occasions, and it happens both ways as well.  You might write something and
you get a good review and you think "Right, that is fantastic! The
journalists really understand it."  Then, in the same breath you can have a
journalist who gives it a poor review, and you get agitated because you can't
understand why somebody doesn't like it, but then it all boils down to that
famous first impression, somebody has to play it for the first time, and they
make their statements based on hearing it for the first time, and to a large
extent that is what the general public does. I think that will always be the
general problem with musicians, they can't hear their stuff for the first
time, so it is always very hard, and I don't think that musicians can honestly
make true judgements on their own music until at least ten years after it
has been written.

DL I can understand how your solo work might be closer to you as you
have the ability to be kind of dictatorial about it, whereas you have to
give and take with YES.

RW  Take the YES stuff for example, I mean, I as a fan, did not like "TALES
FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS".  I know of many people who think that
"TFTO" is dreadful, but I know equally as many people who think that TFTO" is
the best thing that YES ever did. I suppose it all boils down to if we all
liked the same stuff, and we all liked the same thing, it would be a pretty
boring world.

DL Well, you certainly have the breadth of texture to your work to
enable people to love it, hate it, or something in between.

RW Yeah, I think the most important thing, whatever it is that you do, is
that you can look anyone directly in their eyes, and say, "This is what it
was meant to be, and this is the best that I could deliver with what I had at
the time". You can't really do any more than that.