The Masses Open Their Yaps

Lorayne - 12/23/00 00:03:52

Comments:
I personally dont like the gardnerian path or alexandrian for that matter. I dont believe that witchcraft started around the 1950's but much farther back. I dont like the fact that one group stole the rites of another's "invented" and copied rites of the masons! I chose the right to not like these traditions as others may chose the rights to follow. It is up to the individual to decide for themselves and personally I DO BADMOUTH THE GARDNERIANS AND ALEXANDRIANS! IT IS MY RIGHT TO DO SO!!!FREEDOM OF SPEACH! Now why dont I like these so called "traditional' groups? because their rites are based on lies and borrowed or stolen rites. If people actually believe that witchcraft didnt start until the 50s then they cannot call themselves a witch or pagan. Personally I dont believe because I badmouth gardnerians that my head will fall off. I have had enough of these pompus high and mighty types dictating to me or others what they call "true" witchcraft which to me are lies, lies , lies!!!! Lets get our head on straight and look a bit farther back than the gardnerian/alexandrian groupies and return to true paganism once again!! blessings Lorayne

Sunrise Firestotm - 12/18/00 12:12:40
My URL:http://commnuities.msn.com/NewWiccanCorner
My Email:wiccan_insanity@hotmail.com

Comments:
I wanted to say I have recently re-evaluated the way I worship within the craft and I have the following things to say: 1. You have no right to slag off the people who practise the craft in the way that suits them, they have the right to embrace Mother earth the way they see fit 2. Do not bad mouth Gardnerian witches as they work hard at what they do. I was in a Gardnerian coven for four years and I do admit they are stiff but they are traditionalist and their craft. 3. Coven worship is not necessary. If you love Mother Earth and embrace the Lord and Lady then you are a witch no matter what you call yourself. 4. I would now call myself an eclectic wiccan as I am solitary and do not worship in a Gardnerian path. 5. As someone so kindly pointed out just because someone doesn't choose to follow the path you think they should you have no right to call them fluffy bunnies. No matter what you call yourself, gardnerian, alexandrian, elemental, dianic, eclectic or whatever, you have the right to be free to embrace your religion how you feel and no one has the right to attack you for that. I run my own community to bring thos who have heard the calling of Mother Earth to the craft and I strongly dissaprove of those who choose to display the type of closed minded ignorance those who run this site have chosen to show. Practitioners of black magick exist so do those who follow ther paths just because so-called Trad Wicca is what you believe in that doesnt mean all else must. Sort out your backdated old fashioned trad wiccan-o-centric thoughts and and learn to live in peace. If those like you didn't exist then maybe a lot more people would be encouraged to join the craft if they have the call. If they see this sort of thing happening are they going to be encouraged to? I don't think so somehow. I have no objections to those who pratise the craft in different ways as long as hey are strong, stick by their beliefs and learn. Yes even satanic witches and those of other paths. Sunrise Firestorm Solitary ecletic witch If anyone happens to have a problem with what I have written here then feel free to reply. You will recieve my honest opinion in reply and nothing more.

Morgana - 12/15/00 23:44:29
My URL:http://www.MagiaLuna.net
My Email:morgana@magickal-spirit.zzn.com

Comments:
Just curious... Is everyone that does not follow your assigned path a "Fluffy Bunny"? Interesting. I'm a crone of over 40 years and I would never profess to judge others. I am also an eclectic solitary, so I guess I'd better go find some bunny ears, huh? exactly how long have you been on your path?) Lqtm.

Madam Medusa - 12/15/00 03:24:59
My Email:medusa_de_biddy@yahoo.com

Comments:
When you patriachy jerks become spiritual evolved you will all reincarnate as wommin dianic wytches.

Medusa_De_Biddy@yahoo.com - 12/15/00 03:22:51

Comments:
Dianics Rule!!!!!!!

Lorayne - 12/14/00 21:11:24

Comments:
One more thing I wish to add here. How can anyone calling themselves a traditional or true witch. Use stolen material? gardner obviously stole it from someone else!and an alexandrian stole it for alex saunders to copy and rewrite for his "new tradition" o what they DARE to call witchcraft.think about it how legitimate are these "traditions" if they had to resort to stealing rites of others and have the pomposity to lord these rites over their UGH! selected witches!!! I dont know wether to laugh or cry!!! Seems like they: gardner and saunders did enough to "promote" their sad form of what they call the craft in the open and scrutinizing eyes of the public!!! So what can you guys bitch about if an author publishes one of MANY ways of worshipping the Goddess s and Gods? Who are you to judge them? Unless the Goddess and God themselves tell you face to face that what you are doing is right or wrong, until then bugger off!!! Lorayne

Lorayne - 12/14/00 21:00:00

Comments:
Hmmm if you are referring to traditional witchcaft in the same vein as gerald gardner or alex saunders then Im afraid you have just joined the ranks of fluffies yourself. Do the math these folks stole their material from charles leland and I dont believe witch practices rites based on gardners and saunders watered down version of masonic ceremonial ritual. Not everyone is a gardner or alexandrian "groupie". Traditional witch is more than copying off of some wanks back in the 50s or so when they decided t make their showy public and embarrassing display! I personally abhorr witchcraft museums as well showing to the general public sacred tools used by such and such famous witch!! For a fee no matter how large or small!!! What is a true witch? Well it certi nly is not a wand carrying athame toting person claiming exceptional powers and secrets revealed only to the gardnerians or alexandrians! I also have little use for wicca seminaries with their whole slew of titles, degrees, and such. Just think of it wit hes especially during the persecution did not go about flashing daggers/athames swords,wands and chalices!!!!They would have been accused of theft if a silver chalice was found in their peasants home. Likewise only a noble person of title were allowed to arry swords. not a serf or commoner!If people wish to use them in their rites well fine and good but please dont call yourself a traditional witch! It has been said that gardner and saunders did much to revive witchcraft as we know it today but i strongl disagree. If anything it caused more harm than good!!! It leads people to believe that THIS IS witchcraft when in fact it is a combination of masonic,ceremonialistic and kabbalistic practices! thanks to gerald gardner and alex saunders we were provided with two showmen who cared more for openly showing themselves off to shock the general public than to educate the sincere seeker on what witchcraft truly is about! Traditional witchcraft you say? ?!!! GET A REAL LIFE!!!!! Lorayne

Denise - 12/14/00 16:19:29

Comments:
I personally dont understand the need to bash people who choose to worship their Lady and Lord as they see fit. I have been in what you call traditional and fluffy as well and I must say I dont see why this antagonism towards others who dont see things yo r way! You yourselves admitt to Scott Cunningham as having been once in traditional witchcraft. You yourselves speak that he never broke his oath. Now the man had wrote a book to introduce people into the loving arms of the Lady and Lord and you gleefull slash at him. even more disgusting is that this man is not here in life to defend himself against your accusations. Now to quote one of your comments you said to someone else and I quote:"....Scott Cunningham has lead to people picking up his book and lo king no further. Just because someone wrote it in a book doesnt make it gospel"..... I know for a fact that many new people in the craft dont start and end with just his books. Scott never meant for ANYONE to classify his books as the be all end all in the craft and I believe to unfairly put words in Scotts mouth is unjust. I left tradit onal witchcraft because of their stiff unbending rules and their kiss my feet priests and priestesses!!! Scott never classified his book as gospel!!! You really should read all of his books before making such blanketed statements! Yes and to quote your pa ting comments and again I quote:"ever hear of the bible?..." Incidentally I have and a number of people left mainstream or shall dare I say "traditional"christianity because like you they have stiff unbending attitudes of cynisism!I have known a number of people who come to me to learn witchcraft because you "traditionalists" look down your nose at what would have been otherwise a sincere seeker of the craft and they have been turned off by the attitudes of "gee I dont think you are worthy enough to join u !!!" I would rather see a sincere "fluffy bunny" worshiping our Lady and Lord from their heart than someone who insists on a prescribed set of rituals and insiting that this way IS the way to be a witch! By the way to inform you I tried to click on the s ction on your page where you have posted what is wrong with Scott Cunningham? Well I had done this a number of times and it keeps saying that the page cant be found as well as saying the page doesnt exist on yahoo!!!! If you insist on keeping up with your hate agenda then you really should keep up your sites here!!! After all Im sure that with a page like this probably doesnt work because the Lady and Lord had a hand in helping to stop Scott Cunninghams detractors, yourself being no exception to the rule o course. Traditional witchcraft (lets face it) is losing its members and it just kills their priests and priestesses that someone can get to the Lady and Lord themselves without having to kiss some other priest or priestess feet to gain their favor! If yo really wish to preserve what last dying horse you call traditional witchcraft then you folks better work on changing you HEART first! LOVE IS THE LAW LOVE IS THE BOND! Try to remember that next time you spew out your vehemence towards others who disagree with you even though YOU ENCOURAGE rants and raves! I chose not to post my e-mail as I dont need someone with your negative energy lashing out in my private e-mail. I wouldnt invite such people like you into my home and I assure you that I wouldnt do th same by posting my e-mail for your vengance! You folks really should remember the Witches Rede it applies to traditionalists as well as what YOU call fluffy bunnies! And it harm NONE do what thou wilt!" Get it harm none!!! Take your own medicine for a c ange!!! Regards Denise

Miranda - 12/13/00 22:45:27
My Email:miranda_oh@hotmail.com

Comments:
This is going to be simple. I think you are right. Independently from me being or not being a Witch, I am tired of putting up with the so-called fluffly bunnies to which Wicca and Witchcraft are something different every new day AND WHICH OBVIOUSLY HAVE N THING BUT A HAND FULL OF RANDOM IDEIAS about the thing. On the other hand you have to notice that people do need something more these days, and Wicca is sooo handy, soooo much a fairy tale! I do not blame them for that although I dislike it a LOT. I try t keep the distance from those people. I wish you can have the patiente not to hate them because I believe they are all a bit confused. Thank you for reminding me that Wicca is also pain, I needed it.

Miranda - 12/13/00 22:38:33
My Email:miranda:oh@hotmail.com

Comments:

Moi - 12/11/00 02:37:40
My URL:http://i''mnotawiccannewageyuppie.com
My Email:moi@nowhere.loopback.edu

Comments:
Look at the children fight! This is far too funny. There is nothing traditional about Wicca. You're giving us traditionalists a bad name just by your stupidity. Everyone thinks that us Heathens are alike--> bunnies huggie crystal trees, or some people looking to get off in some secret coven that rhymes with oven. Please, all of you, educate yourselves. There is a bulk of academic information out there.

Moi - 12/11/00 02:37:34
My URL:http://i''mnotawiccannewageyuppie.com
My Email:moi@nowhere.loopback.edu

Comments:
Hi to all those who like wicca I eat cheese!!!!!

shadowofheresy - 11/28/00 06:46:16
My Email:shadowofheresy@hotmail.com

Comments:
Hey, godKiller - your sure neat at kick-butt. where did he go? another planet? what's a godsplitter do, anyways? write me and we'l do some cool curses on the wankar...I got books and stufff! Ule luu-u-urv my magik boox!!! money spells. luv speells. cu ses R too easy...too easy,

- 11/26/00 03:10:59

Comments:
DANIEL IS A BAD BOY! BUT, I'M DEALING HIM OUT!

GodKiller - 11/25/00 17:11:27
My Email:hutvjki

Comments:
Oh, please don't go, God(running Mouth)Splinter. Who else can we laugh at? Your such a big, tough man, you should be able to take it. Oh, well, I guess I killed another God.

Bob - 11/25/00 16:42:54
My Email:XXX

Comments:
I don't really have a problem with new age Wicca or whatever you call it, but I do have a question: Why would anybody want to be something and then change it into something that it's not? If you don't want to practice the old rites, then why don't you ca l it something else like Wacca or something? If you can make up your own rituals then it seems to me that you could just sit on a pillow, watch TV and say that it's a ritual. By the way, this site is more fun than watching a baby chew off it's own leg. LO

Aidan - 11/24/00 22:26:39
My Email:AidanG@HorizonOrganic.com

Comments:
To the idiots who claim 800 years of history in the craft: I can't say anything that will make you look more ignorant and stupid than anything you've already said. to "fluffy bunnies": You're right. You have the right to practice the craft however you want to. However, I also have the right to think you're a moron. And say what I think at any point. Freedom of sppech. If you have the right to protest loudly and wav crystals around in order to cleanse your chakras (both "truly" wiccan, I'm sure), then I have the right to say what a feebleminded idiot you are. In general: I find, in general, that almost all wiccans have seriously underthought their religious beliefs, or stolen them outright from non-pagan or non-wiccan/european religions. Karma is Hindu, not European. I really don't care what people believe, as long as they've thought it through, and honestly address the incongruencies. Most Wiccans I know are merely baking a Christian cake with pagan frosting: There is no change in the religious recipe, just in how it's presented. Personally, I'd rather have Co cannon than that cake any day. Aidan, a druid

Willowtree - 11/24/00 21:04:04
My Email:willowtree@mweb.co.za

Comments:
Love the page. *laughs* Begone Crystal-wavers!

starlite - 11/24/00 13:04:10
My Email:starlight_starbright@talk21.com

Comments:
Hey, right now u lot can kiss my elemental arse for all care!!!!! Look I'm a hereditary witch who can trace it back for ohhhh about eight hundred years AT LEAST!!!!!!! Look I know u lot think that Trad Wicca is the only way to go yeah sure valid point I t ke it but u have got to accept that we all are witches no matter what u say or think. I ake your point but u can't just go shout about this what if outsiders stumble upon this how do you think we r going to look to them? Like my friend Sunrise firestorm w ote we suffer enough as it is don't you think we need to put up a united front aginst those out there who decide to persecute us? Anyone who wants to e mail me feel free. U might learn something from me. May the stars watch u all. Starlite*

Sunrise Firestorm - 11/24/00 12:50:31

Comments:
I have jut read on of the raves and I want to thank the person whos name I cant remember. If it harms none do what you will is our most basic and sacred law and deliberately insulting people who follow a different type of wicca is upsetting and is not ha ming none you elitist stuck up idiots. Im really angry nw so Ive just got somehting to say: Come and have a go if you think yore hard enough!!!! Email me if you have a valid point then maybe i will apologise to you nut i doubt you will because your ove inflated egos will not let you focus long enough to see past your noses. Your way of practsing the craft is not the only way and from what Ive seen certainly not the best way if it turns people to jerks like you. Now congratulate me Ive said what thou ands of alternative wiccans have been dying to say since the creation of this f**k off insulting page!!

Sunrise Firestorm - 11/24/00 12:42:13
My URL:http://communities.msn.com/NewWiccanCorner
My Email:wiccan_insanity@hotmail.com

Comments:
I think that you people make me sick. I dont care if you email me back and give me abuse i can take whatever is coming to me. Wicca is a sacred tradition but you f**%@ng jerks dont realise that people should be freee to practise however they want.I have taken time to learn about the craft as I am a hereditary witch but practised the craft a long time before my mother deigned to tell me that. Satanst should not be focused because the only reason why they parctise is to get themselves attention and to mak themselves feel better but if you p**%@s can't realise that and continue to pay them attention they will just get worse!!!!! I have worked hard to overcome stupis idiotic people that think that witchraft is so wonderful and it should be the way you want it to be. I am in a coven so dont you dare say I dont know what Im talking about. People like you disgust me why dont you stick your heads up your backsides!!! One of my ancestors was the last witch to be burned in England so my opinion does f**%@ng mat er you stuck up d**%%@ds!!!!! Wicca may be a sacred institution that I agree with but you should f**%%@g leave people alone and let them find their own good way of practsing the craft. Maybe if jerks like you didnt exist then maybe the world would be a uch less screwed up place. Us witches suffer enough persecution from other religions without turning against each other in almost civil war. We should all be united in our love for Mother Nature, whether we are trad wiccans, gard wiccans, elemental witc es or whatever. We should stand together in our love for the Lord and Lady and present a united front against our enemies. Idiots like the people who create this page we dont need. Now suck on that!!!

TheGodSplinter - 11/24/00 04:31:10
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeseerve.co.uk

Comments:
WELL, IT'S BEEN FUN, BUT I MUST BE AWAY TO WORK OVER SOME DORKS ON OTHER, EQUALLY BITCHY SITES! THANKS TO GODKILLER, AGAIN, FOR CONFIRMING THAT I AM GETTING RIGHT INSIDE THE HEADS OF THOSE WHO READ ME!!!!! THAT WAS THE PURPOSE AND GODKILLER'S POSTING WAS THE SIGNAL! [ INCIDENTALLY, I'VE ALSO HAD 88 E MAILS ABOUT THESE POSTINGS IN LESS THAN ONE DAY. ALMOST ALL WERE HIGH IN PRAISE AND ONLY 7 WERE A LITTLE LESS THAN DELIGHTED! THEY WERE AS SICK TO DEATH AS I WAS AT THE SPECTATOR SPORTY BITCHINESS ON THIS SI E! I JUST THOUGHT I'D TELL YOU THAT! BYE, EVERYBODY! BICKER AWAY! NOW, WHERE DID I LEAVE MY HANDBOOK FOR FLUFFY BUNNIES! ] Yours...highly, but temporarily, amused- A Happy Wiccan for 27 years, this December! Bye, now! Be happy, Talon!

TheGodSplinter - 11/24/00 04:14:48
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the "Godkiller" for permitting me to get that last funny entry in. It's not every day that I find someone so reassuringly dim that they play right into the hands of more of old Goddy's humour...in one of their f rst few sentences. By the way, Godkiller, why not post some more of the same just after you start shaving!

TheGodSplinter - 11/24/00 04:05:39
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
YES...I CAN WRITE SOME MORE! I am putting this message here so that I can truly be next to nothing. Right next to it!

Godkiller - 11/24/00 02:01:42
My Email:http://Crap

Comments:
Wow! Godsplinter, you sure can take up space with much nonsense. What's your point bacon bit? all you really said is that you know next to nothing about witchcraft. will you please write again so that we can laugh at you some more?

TheGodSplinter - 11/22/00 18:46:01
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
YAWN! Okay! I'll buy in. Let's play! I can save you all so much time on here by doing this. OK... "My Wicca is better than your Wicca!" "No, mine's better than yours!" "Oh, no...I'm pretty sure I have the most recent, augmented model of Wicca, here, co another Wiccan told me." "Hang-about. There isn't a shadow of a doubt that I possess a much taller Wicca." "Not on your life, pal...my Wicca is at least a quarter of an inch loftier than yours is- just look at how huge the books are that it stands on " "Erm...well, my Wicca weighs more, so there!" "I doubt that...my Master's Master's Uncle's Cousin, twice removed, tells me that my Wicca weighs in at several pounds better than yours and that Wiccapounds mean far more when they're laced with such ob cure and pointless things as Skulls and Mounds - so there, yourself! And, it says so in the enigmatically titled, old work called 'The Old Tome Of Much Better Wicca!'." "Nope! My Wicca is so old, we had to do a Carbon 14 date test just to read the books and then we had to clone a very old bookworm's remains and ask if it was a little tough to swallow!" "Maybe, but my Wicca can thrash your Wicca in a fight!" "No...everybody knows that my Wicca is the Bruce Lee of Wiccas, tougher and stronger than all he other Wiccas put together, end to end, so...top that one, oh fellow grown-up!" "Okay, er...yeah...my Wicca is brighter than yours and far more people have glittery new membership cards to make them feel good when they take them out." "Give me a bre k...I have to use shades to look at my Wicca and my Wicca gives me the keys to the Celestial Washroom door, and free vouchers for huge discounts at yonder stores, like 'Hag-U-Like' and 'Ghouls-R-Us'!" "Ooooh! Well, I'm not sure I can beat that, er...oh o. I can't beat it, so that's done it, hasn't it?" "Done what, oh inferior Wicca-Wabbit?" "Well, it means I have only a recent demo version of my favourite faith and nothing of substance to offer. I must resign myself to being another victim of the Torn Again Bitchians and have no path to follow, and I must forever give up real Wicca and take to what ye olde site-weaving Morons Of The Universe call a 'wannabe wuddabeen cuddabeen Wiccan' and live the life of a wayward fluffus bunnicus" [ I THINK YOU GET T E POINT! FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THAT IS OUR RESPECTIVE DIGNITIES, WILL YOU PEOPLE ACT YOUR AGES, INSTEAD OF YOUR SHOE SIZES? SLOW YOUR VENOM DOWN AND LET YOUR BRAINS CATCH UP! IF DIVERSIFICATION IN WICCA IS THE SAME AS DISINTEGRATION, THEN WICCA DIES IN THE SAME WAY IN WHICH CHRISTIANITY ALREADY IS. IF DIVERSIFICATION AND FLUID EVOLUTION OF WICCA IS SEEN AS NOURISHMENT AND TAKES FROM NOBODY IN ORDER TO GIVE TO ANOTHER, THEN WICCA TRANSCENDS BICKERAGE AND LIVES FOREVER- UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY, 'IT GROWS AS IT G ES!' ] "NEXT!"

Rhionnach - 11/22/00 15:50:42

Comments:
A few thoughts based your own answers to questions. "You know, you people aren't very nice. Yeah, well, being nice is a virtue. It is not, however, a Wiccan Tenet. You're thinking of "Love Thy Neighbor"." I always understood a Wiccan tenet to be "An it harm none do what thou will". Is angering and upsetting people harming none? And what will happen about the Threefold rule? "Well, why don't you tell us about Traditional Wicca? You're a seeker. Try seeking." Books are one way of seeking and if that is all someone has available then what is wrong with that? The books will eventually lead them on if they keep at it. How is someone to know Wicca is for them if they are not exposed to it in some form? We're not a l lucky enough to learn at our Grannie's knee! Blessed be.

Fishgoat - 11/22/00 02:11:35
My URL:http://www.gatewest.net/~dem/low/low.html
My Email:dem@gatewest.net

Comments:
Hi there. Thank you for voicing my frustrations as well. :) Hopefully more people will realise that there is much more to the craft than just "let's all feel good!" Dealing with one's Shadow self is certainly one thing that gets glossed over or forgotten. So what if wicca doesn't get to everyone? We're not trying to take over the world. Really! We have better things to do. Stop adding the worst of Christian practice to wicca. And I'm not even particularly traditional... I hope that people will listen to the reasons why some folks are frustrated instead of reacting only to the less than considerate presentation. BTW, the http://www.oocities.org/RainForest/2709/temple/letters/cunningham1.html link is broken.

Talon - 11/21/00 20:53:24
My Email:)0===>

Comments:
What is trad Wicca anyway? J.G.'s thing? We of the old Faith call ourselves Pellars. If you do not know how to cast the Mound and Skull then your probably not a witch anyway. Most of what I hear called wicca is mostly just Kabalism and spiritualism, no witchcraft. If you want to call yourself a wiccan, fine, but if you want to be a witch then you need to learn what witches really are, and it's not wiccan. Thank you. Talon

Adam Snyder - 11/21/00 13:34:26
My Email:firstofman@mail.com

Comments:
I can't believe the audacity of those who like to bitch on this site! I myself am a Wiccan and a Druid, and I am on a constant search for relics of information on the old ways. People who believe that, "Wicca is whatever you make of it," are either fooli h, they just use Wicca as a label for themselves, or they feel the need to rebel in some way, so they turn on their religion. For those who are unhappy about the beliefs of people such as myself, saying that we are bigotted, we could say the same thing f r those such as yourself. Sure, we feel that Wicca is beginning to take a wrong turn, but you don't have to listen to us. We are just stating what we believe is right.

TheGodSplinter - 11/21/00 07:59:42
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
THAT LAST ENTRY WAS MINE! OOPS! A LITTLE TOO RANTY AND RAVEY TO GET IT SENT, THERE! Remind me to sue my mouse pointer!!!

- 11/21/00 03:10:35

Comments:
NICELY SAID! When an emotion or drive runs WITH the grain of Nature, we are moving towards our potential best; we are not ignoring the stronger, driving aspects of us that shape who we are. Anger is our inner Nature's way of saying, "Take time to aggress to diversify and to learn!"...not "See him, over there? Destroy him at any cost!" ANGER DOESN'T RUN AGAINST THE GRAIN OF ANYBODY'S REAL NATURE- it is part of our most essential defence mechanism/s. AND ANGER IS NOT THE WORD USED TO DESCRIBE WHAT WE DO BOUT THAT ANGER; IT'S THE FEELING...NOT THE DEED! Obviously, there would be times when WHAT WE DO ABOUT anger could leave us open to castigation, even by those who would normally support us. But if, as a race, or religious 'group', or stream of generation , we suppress a survival tool, like anger...we emotionally disintegrate and functionally begin to mutate. If you feel anger, and its release would prove, in part, self-destructive, also, then send it back into the Earth (GROUNDING) and let the Goddess de l with, filter, convert and re-assign it as a more positive energy, at some subsequent time. OR...work it off in ways that need not necessarily harm people or their belongings! ('Punchbagging', for one example.) Old school traditionalists would readily turn us into bland, sterilised automatons, with chants and movements all prescribed by them. The buck stops with the true believer and they won't be dictated to by the cobwebby trads! When I am angered of anything I fully intend to realise my normalness by making the right decision as to what to do with it, next- not by asking someone whose sell-by date can be seen carved in a stone that people pay to see! I will either work it off, in a catharsis...or I'll groun it. Either way, WE are the keyholders to, and owner-drivers of, our own angers'; it is OUR decision, nobody else's.

Ed - 11/21/00 02:18:17
My Email:NOYB

Comments:
"ANGER IS A WASTED EMOTION?!?!?!?" Just a note to the moron who posted that gratuitous piece of BS- Anger is part of the human experience, and without it, many things we enjoy wouldn't even exist. How can you call yourself any type of spiritual being and deny an essential part of the huma experience?If Wicca really does eschew anger as dangerous and worthless, then it is definitely not for me, or others like me. The most positive changes that have occurred in my life happened as a result of getting fed up to the eyeballs,and using the ene gy of anger to CHANGE the course of my existence. I require a religion that allows me to embrace all of who I am, even the stuff that's difficult to look at.It is because of this that I have left Christianity, and now I hear the same BULLSHIT coming out o "enlightened" Wiccan lips? Those who can't accept all of who humans are are simply fundamentalist Christians who want the Goddess instead of the God.

Jonas the Sluagh, K.S.C. - 11/19/00 15:29:42
My URL:http://charlatan.20m.com
My Email:morte_ascendo@hotmail.com

Comments:
...and now for something Discordian and needlessly long! Onw day, while I was tending the hemlock antidote, I looked up and saw Saint Gulik. Saint Gulik, however, had a problem: he had seven legs. Rather than laugh condescendingly at him as I had at Saint Roland or Saint J.J., who actually thought they lik d having seven, I reached up and tore Saint Gulik's extra leg off. He thanked me and walked away. For those of you who don't get it: Eclectic Wicca is much more accessable than trad wicca. This means that even potential trad wicca will usually bite the eclectic hook first, as Llewellyn dangles it right beofre their eyes. In other words, if you play y ur cards right, eclectic wicca is a great recruiting tool. I've actually managed to make Discordians this way. Just remeber: the people who would be hopeless anyway may be laughed at freely. And most of them are hopeless.

MoonShadow - 11/19/00 09:06:47

Comments:
ok enough is enough...you have completely distorted the entire idea behind such a beautiful thing as the old religion...ANGER IS A WASTED EMOTION...besides if i enjoyed being angry all the time i'd go to church with my christian friends and join their ran s. you are all suffering from some grand dilusion and must have never sat and thought of all those who went to the gallows for the same principles that we today are allowed to enjoy. there is enough prejudice and anger outside our religion ....lets not br ng it into our circles...as for the "neophytes" or for those of you who may not have done your homework before posting this rediculous page..."fluffy bunnies" we all have to start somewhere... there are certainly not open coven groups everywhere and most re still in the broom closet at this stage anyway... besides if they make it past the year and a day trial, more power to them and i'd for one be glad to help them understand the ways of the old religion personally...so before you go off the deep end agai ...ask your self one question..."where did i start out?"what gives you the right to look down your nose at anyone? that's what started the first flames of the burning times anyway!!! thank you for allowing me the opportunity to get that off my chest...mer y part and blessed be

Autumn - 11/19/00 08:37:40

Comments:
Tell me everyone what is one thing that sets wicca apart from other religions... The key fact that anger has no place in it....

Autumn - 11/19/00 08:34:46
My Email:autumnbreeze_moonshadow@yahoo.com

Comments:
Look i agree a lot with what you say but wicca is not about all this anger. that is not what we are about. it is one thing to be a little upset it's another to go all out and do something like this. the tradition of the old ways is indeed of great importa ce but that is no reason to pick on ppl just cause they have things a little twisted around. it is very true but this anger i do not agree with. merry meet merry part and merry meet again. Brightest Blessings to all.

TheGodSplinter - 11/18/00 18:27:42
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
It's high time somebody sorted out the bug in this site's Rants And Raves input. Some letters, clearly there in the submitted text, are left out. Maybe the webmaster/s should come out of the cobwebs in their choice of softwares or in their webmaster tal nts, also! That's the opinion of this fluffy bunny, anyway!

Eva - 11/18/00 16:48:51
My Email:piper3@altavista.com

Comments:
I understand your view point. I, personally, do not care what other Wiccans may be doing. The type of people that annoy me are the ones who aren't serious about it, they're just here to freak everyone out. I pretty much just let everyone do their own thin , whatever makes them happy. Isn't that part of a religion, being happy, at peace? Do we really need to divide ourselves further? How do you know that these so-called "fluffy-bunnies" aren't really into Wicca. No one can tell another person how to worship we're not all the same. So what if they emphasis love, light, and happiness. Does it really matter? Blessed Be Eva

dark98 - 11/18/00 14:19:58
My Email:NA

Comments:
MMM interesting site. Yes i do not agree with this webpage . Bluntly what i see here is not a practice of respect,honor, or discipline which you traditionalists now contridict, but a practice of hipocrisy. Is not life about excepting change?The craft is ot dying it is infact flowering. The possiblity of stagnation comes with the people who may cause it. To tell you the truth you can sit still but the world will not. I do agree that the way of the witch is not a fad or major fashion statement. It is a wa of life for me. Yes i may wear black, silver jewerly dripping from my neck. And have spouting tattoos of nature scenes, with a proud one saying blessed be the goddess. Maybe it is because i am proud of what i practice, and a bit unsecure around people, due to the shit they may give u about what you practice .Do i spout my way of life like a foghorn. NO. If people ask i will explain. But all i can say is people come on look at yourselves, if i were not convinced enough i would say you all remind me some f those burn again christians i meet. I ask you what is so bad loving and respecting nature, and its gifts. Yeah lets see i have hugged about 20 trees in the last year :)i find them quite healing, i walk bare foot in the rain, hell i even kiss the earth. ask you where is your respect, and your honor? Iam asking this to the people who published this webpage? As for Discipline you make me think of an unenjoyable practice.would i be here if it were not? Maybe some of you should consider taking up karate. Y s i know there i go hopping around in the sun. Which is better? To remain in ignorance or remain in the sunshine. Today the old ways are somwhat more alive and free than they were during the burningtimes. If you call me a bunny, that is all good with me, cause a bunny is but another beautiful creation from the goddess and nature.

TheGodSplinter - 11/18/00 07:12:36
My Email:thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
WELL, WELL, WELL! A SITE DEVOTED ENTIRELY TO DREARY COBWEBS! LOOK, FOLKS...THE ONLY REAL THREAT EVER BROUGHT TO BEAR ON COLLECTIVE FAITH, AT TIMES IN THE PAST, WAS CAUSED BY TIRED OLD TRADITIONALISTS REFUSING TO ALIGN WITH NATURE AND CHANGE. SO THEY END P INSULTING THOSE WHO ARE ABLE TO ADAPT AND WHO DARE TO DIFFER FROM THEIR DECAYED VIEWS! THAT IS ALSO PRECISELY WHY CHRISTIANITY IS DEAD, AND HAS GONE ON TO BECOME THE REASON WHY IT WON'T LIE DOWN! I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT TO ANYBODY THINKING OF WRITING ANY FURTHER ENTRY, HERE, THAT ALL YOU WILL BE DOING IS SPOON-FEEDING THESE MYOPIC MORONS (AS I'M DOING, RIGHT NOW?- EXCEPT THEY'LL FIND MY SERVING UNPALATABLE!)- INDEED, YOU'LL BE MERELY ENTERT INING SOME OLD AND MILDEWED DIE-HARDS WHO HAVE NO PLACE OR VALUE AT ALL IN FLUID, ETERNALLY SELF-EVOLVING WICCA. RELIGIONS DO NOT CREATE PEOPLE! PEOPLE CREATE RELIGIONS TO JACKET OVER THEIR DEEPEST FAITHS AND BELIEFS! SCRAPE THESE ENVIOUS CAVE-DWELLERS OFF! REJOICE IN YOUR CONTINUAL READINESS TO AUGMENTATIVELY CHANGE AND UPDATE WICCAN PRACTISES! IGNORE PRODS FROM THESE PEOPLE FOR ARROGANTLY SOUGHT "ENTRY QUALIFICATIONS", DEMANDED OF US BY THIS SITE, FOR EXAMPLE AND...B ESSED BE! NATURE IS CONTINUALLY EVOLVING AND WICCA IS MOSTLY ABOUT ALIGNING OURSELVES WITH IT AS IT DOES SO. THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES WICCANS AND WHO REFUSE TO APPLY OR TOLERATE CHANGE THAT DOES NOT FLY IN THE FACE OF THE GODDESS AND THE GOD, ARE NOT ALIGNED! PO S AND KETTLES! THE COBWEBS ARE DEAD! LONG LIVE WE BUNNIES! thegodsplinter@paganesque.freeserve.co.uk

Eiden - 11/15/00 05:39:22

Comments:
You say "Bring back the discipline to Wicca" It has not left. It's not hiding in a bugs bunny hole somewhere! People still write books, there *are* still people out there who are *very* disciplined. If you do not know this, you need to stop spending time with your computer as much as you do and L OK AROUND - and inward. "Bring back the honor of the priesthood" If you feel that there is no honor to the path you are on, then why are *you* on it? It sounds like you don't *have* much honor, or just expect too much from those around you. How empty. "Bring back the 'seeking' to the seeker" Please open your eyes on this one. All of us are seeking something different every day - wether we know it or not. There is nothing to bring back, because it is already here. "Bring back the weight of the oath" The oath is pretty heavy in and of itself. The oath is with you everyday after you take it. There is nothing to bring back because it is WITH YOU ALWAYS. "bring back the mysteries" This webpage is a mystery! Created by a self absorbed person with nothing better to do than waste everyone's time by acting like an authority figure for a religion that already has TWO! Give it a rest.

Eiden - 11/15/00 05:20:32

Comments:
I have something else to add to my last rant! You say "bring back the discipline to wicca" It has not left. It's not hiding in a bugs bunny hole somewhere! People still write books, there *are* still people out there who are *very* disciplined. If you do not know this, you need to stop spending time with your computer as much as you do and L OK AROUND. "Bring back the honor of the priesthood" If you feel that there is no honor to the path you are on, then why are *you* on it? It sounds like you don't *have* much honor, or just expect too much from those around you. "Bring back the 'seeking' to the seeker" I don't beleive that anyone appointed *you* the right to do this? Again,

Eiden - 11/15/00 05:08:53

Comments:
First of all, the fact that all of you wish to keep Wicca so damn traditional is a contradiction in terms. Come on now. Do you really believe that after the resurgance of this faith hit us, this country especially, that viewpoints and ways of practice w uld not change? All religions go through change. You must think that the earth is going to stand still one day as well! It sounds like you are putting people down for not being as "serious" or "hard - working" as yourselves and therein lies your problem. Your ego. Get over your ego, let people practice the way they want. If they screw up, why should you worry? How other people practice should be none of your concern. That is what all those books (yes, the ones you MOCK) are for. It tickles me slightly that you ask us "Do you dare?" to leave our name, and "Now, *think* about this!" next to an email form. Tell me - how serious are you about this website of yours??

Ceilede - 11/13/00 20:09:35
My Email:celesyn@yahoo.com

Comments:
What's wrong with fluffy bunnies? As a rabbit enthusiast, I find your equating fluffy bunnies with Wiccan riff-raff to be highly offensive. *gurgle*

Greg Sommers - 11/12/00 22:20:36
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/greg_sommers/

Comments:
I enjoyed this page a great deal! Keep up the awesome work.

Dana - 11/12/00 04:19:06

Comments:
Amateur; you are the last one to bitch about anyone pretending to be anything! You join a list, and 3 weeks later go around calling yourself wiccan! In case the irony has missed you, you are the type of person this page is about!

- 11/10/00 10:53:17

Comments:

Amateur - 11/08/00 21:05:51
My URL:http://www.amateur.freeserve.co.uk
My Email:chat@amateur.freeserve.co.uk

Comments:
Ok I Love this site, thanks to the webdesigner who kept it real. Also I want to let of some steam. I hate all these Christians etc, who just waltz in a new age shop, buys a teenwitch kit by Silver "fluffy" rainwolf and then boasts 2 everyone "yeah man im witch, im a Wiccap err.. Wiccon err.. Wiccam?? err something like that, aint that kewl! and me being a witch jus cost me $28!!". "Buy your religion, in one great Package" Everyone knows Silver is just a money hungry woman, who has violated and disrespect d the Wiccan faith, just to make cash. Now all these rebel christians buy the kit, proclaiming 2 be Wiccans, yet know nothing about Wiccans. Well heres a lil something from me to You!! Enjoy Hiya Folks!, My name is $ilver Amateur Rainwolf. you may remember me from such pornography movies like "The Amateur and the three maidens" or "The Amateur hits the road", But today I come away from the spotlight, to advertise my latest product, as YOU are aware every one enjoyed my last product the "Amateur, super duper extreeme condom", I've gone and done it again, but with a shock!. my latest product is not sexualy orientated, it is infact religious. I call it the "Teen Christian Kit". Its a black cardboard box, whoch can be errected as a Altar to put the bible on!. Inside the box, is a 51st edition of the Bible, written by the 4 apostle!!! they even talk about Jesus!!! BUT WAIT there's more!! I have included a Plastic Cross, which you can wear around your neck!, But to add to that bumper collection is 3mm of Holy water!! Blessed by me!, $ilver Amateur Rainwolf! (Note: Not for drinking purpose), its everything you need to baptise your self into a Christian, and its all for a relatively cheap price... $129 / �300 !! So what are you waiting 4!, buy your Christian Teen Kit now by dialing this number 555-5555 and order now!. And if you order within 24 hours, Ill give you a signed Condom, signed by me! $ilver Amateur Rainwolf, So comeon all you Jews, Wiccans, Muslims, Hindus, Chineese and any other non-christian, Buy this kit now! and consider your self saved from going to Hell!. Cause everybody loves NED FLANDERS! (Please note: Not suitable for children under 3 years old) $ilver Amateur Wolf

jOHN - 11/08/00 19:55:17
My Email:ITS OKAY

Comments:
Nice site

merlin - 11/07/00 22:40:16

Comments:
blessed be from england good to see a site like this i get feed up with the a bit of this a bit of that witchies keep strong . may the gods help you on your path.

p.j. otis - 11/05/00 22:51:51
My Email:provag@yahoo.com

Comments:
i must admit,im confused.im not exactly the type to be very sympathetic to the fluffy bunny,prozac smile,new age,vegetarian,phish-loving, pseudo-hippies but im not sure i see your point.wicca has no old ways unless you consider 100 years to be old on the cale of religions which most people dont.and by saying 100 years im being generous.its true that the celtic pagan belifes that are a small part of the wiccan tradition are older than anyone can really be sure enough to put an age on but wicca itself and i s widely accepted practices are all(not some but all) derived from kabalism and the mysticism practiced by aliester crowley and the golden dawn.there is little to no resemblance whatsoever to wiccan ceremonies and the ceremonies practiced by modern irish nd scotish pagans.the only real difference between kabalism and wicca is the presence of 2 god heads in stead of 10.wicca and its entire history in and of itself is no older than the baby boomers.the word wicca was invented by gerald gardener in the 1950' and the beleifes of wiccan practice are based not on celtic systems but kabalic ceremonies that were esablished by crowley and his comrads.the 'old ways' of wicca cant really be that old in my opinon because it is simply not possible for the exact ceremo ies to have been translated pefectly by the aristocrats who put our modern systems on paper.dont get me wrong however,im not saying im a big fan of the people who get all of thier belief systems from books-a-million and i dont really like week-end pagans ither,hell i hate the uneducated f**kers.all im saying is that no one really has the right to whine about the uneducated masses when they still think that wicca has 'old ways'.im proud and pagan....just not wiccan.

TIM - 11/02/00 08:38:38

Comments:
First let me say i have no idea what the hell a fluffy bunny is, its the first time i have heard the term(an explaination on your page might be nice. I agree that wicca should be kept tradiotional.. just not underground. why do you think that there are so many misconceptions about us? because we keep in secret. Christians had the same problem in rome 1900 years ago, look what happened to them.Lions,murders etc. YOu can call me an angry bunny if you want, but i am new to paganism(yes i know pagan mean count y dweller). But i cant call myself a true wiccan because i dont agree with all the practices and i do feel it it too limiting. My personal belief is that any path followed(not hurting yourself or anyone/thing of course) is a good path to walk. Who are we to put labels on the infinite and say our way is the right way? I would love to see the boundries break down between the "traditionals" and "fluffy bunnies." Descrimination in our religions is gonna break us and keep us down. I'd love to hear your comment ,. Thanx and BLessed Be )O( TIM

Two Crows - 10/31/00 18:47:51

Comments:
She was amazed to discover that others in her trad didn�t use the same correspondences as she did. �When was East given over to Air,� she wondered. The whole idea of Air coming from the East was simply not logical, and it nagged at her sense of tradition hat some of the covens in the states had accepted it that way. Surely Crowley�s trick on Gardner was to blame for this. That bogus commission to start an OTO camp never did anything but collect dust in that sideshow G put up on the Isle of Man, or did it? She had in fact been taught that Wicca was only C�s way of perpetuating his defunct orders, and she had lots of citations from G�s BoS that sounded a great deal more like C than any fictitious Dorothy Clutterbuck. In any event no one could produce the ori inal that G had allegedly penned himself. This kind of controversy would never have happened to her continental order, they never mixed sources, and they never published anything out of their BoS. It was this kind of thing that violated the very Oath and easure of her order. Now her very own covens were infected with false information, likely set in motion by that conniving prankster who claimed to be the King of Witches. She hastily called every covener she had in her listing, all the way to her teacher� teacher. They all had the same thing to say. They had all copied it by hand from the Book of Shadows just as they had been required to do for their initiations. No one had any answer better than �It was in the book when I copied it.� They couldn�t check ny BoS older than the living elders of the trad, for it was tradition to bury the BoS with its writer. This latest discovery set off a wave of worry over who was right. In the end it cost a split in the entire order, as she decided to warlock the largest art of the colonial covens. Those in the states didn�t understand the worry, and as little as they heard from the great mother in Wales it wouldn�t really matter if they were outcasts. �Outcasts from what,� many of them thought. North seemed to work just ine for them, and their magick seemed none the worse for any changes in the trad correspondences. They were in fact Americans, and it was this possible typo that caused them to become truly American Witches. A second revolution, and not a shot fired. Fict onal food for thought� If its in a book its probably true. If its in an old book, even better. If its in a really old book you can wager your soul on it�or can you? BB TC

Ulf - 10/28/00 02:08:40

Comments:
I do dare. I am glad that you have the Traditional interestest at heart. I also believe that the "fuzzy bunies" need to learn more about what they are practicing. The universe is a cold and cruel place at times. That being said, it Scott hadn't writte his books I wouldn't have known where to start looking for what was missing in my soul. Remember that "intent" may not be an actual conscious process, and "intent" can be instantaneous. As you wrote that this was an emotional outburst made in frustraiti n, your conscious rationalizaton may be clouding your actual intent. (Much like the insanity defense for murder) The path that each of us sees before us may be obscoured from those standing right next to us, for that is not their path. Again I must agre with you on the point that the bunnies need to learn what Witchcraft is and especially what is Wicca/Neo-Wicca and Neo-Witchcraft let alone what is Pagan and Neo-Pagan. "Pagan" noun der. paganus Latin quite literaly from the farm, bumpkin. Where do I fi ? I don't know; I'm not there yet. Ulf

M. - 10/25/00 18:56:41
My Email:xjs89@hotmail.com

Comments:
Anyone familar with the documentary " Walking After Midnight" ? I am looking for a copy or originator of this programme aired on the Learning Channel in Canada on Oct 24,2000

M. - 10/25/00 18:53:25

Comments:

How could I resist the rant? - 10/25/00 06:42:12

Comments:
Hey you guys? If one of you can prove that you are hereditary, I will eat my witches hat!! We all read some fluffy bunny stuff to begin with, and most of us would have read a Scott Cunningham once, if not now. (Besides, his compendiums of magic herbs are pretty useful in my opinion!) Before you can understand the older writings on magic, you ne d a good grounding on the basics, and that is provided by some of the modern wiccan authors. Anyone who calls witchcraft a religion is not following any tradition that I know of except the modern wiccan one, and if you claim to be Trad Wiccan, that can only mean either Gardnerian or Alexandrian, if you accept Sanders as more than a thief of Gard ers ideas. And even then, you MUST acknowledge that Gardner stole half his stuff from Leyland and Murray,(with a bit of Crowleys poetry) and if you don't know who they are then you truly ARE a fluffy bunny, and should get cracking at the bookstore immedia ely! Witchcraft is ancient, powerful, and a tradition that has been LOST to the western world! If you want to know about trad witchcraft, perhaps a visit to the Azande might be appropriate?? If not, then accept that the religion of wicca is new, and as such, should be allowed to grow unfettered, but that some adherence to the "original" frameworks f Gardner and co should be helpful, since after all he did all that research for us, he just didn�t mention it in his bibliography! Personally, I don�t really care about what Wiccan group is the best or most �traditional�. What does irk me though, is the Wiccan�s declaring things about witchcraft as if they are the sole owners of this title, and as if all witches are wiccan. They are ot! Witchcraft is not the same as Wicca, and if you don�t believe me, go to Africa! Wicca is a mispronunciation of the word for a male witch. The female is wicce, and the term Wiccian, actually means practicing sorcery/magic. The terms are all apparently Saxon, but contrary to one readers letter, this does not mean that the Witches were axons! It�s a derogatory word like Warlock, to describe spell-makers who the Saxons were evidently less than fond of! The term Witch DERIVES from the Saxon �Wiccian�, which is highly unlikely to mean anything to do with wisdom, by the way, and probably me ns �to turn or bend�. If you are a witch, most of this is irrelevant to you anyway, since witchcraft is not a religion. You will probably do a similar thing to the wiccans, and search widely, taking in only those things you find apt. You will also probably keep pretty quiet ab ut it all! If you are a hereditary witch, I will (as I said before) eat my witches hat, but I'd love to hear from anyone who seriously believes this, and is OVER 25; I want to meet your mother AND your grandmother! (you'll have to post your proof here, though, I'm n t silly enough to list my email address!) In defence of the fluffy bunnies though, surely you should be greatful for the rise in interest in Witchcraft? A few years ago, I was flat out buying Melissa from the herbalists, now I can stroll to the local shops and get all manner of exotic incense, bo ks, herbs and other items which were previously so hard to come by. The old grimoirs are being republished, as are the not so old Gardnerian texts, Leyland, Murray and the rest. Those of us not lucky enough to be part of these supposed mysterious heredita y families, get our learning through books. If you don�t like fluffy bunny wiccan books, don�t buy them! As for the bunnies themselves, I hope that you all find your feet on the right path, and if that happens to be wicca, well good luck to you! Oh, and one more thing, NEVER TRUST A GURU!! (or as the Buddhists put it, �If you see Budda on the road, KILL HIM!�) Witchcraft is not, nor has it ever been the realm of priests, and if you don�t believe me, take a look at the wiccan �Charge�, not the lovely, poetic Valiente version, the original one in Leyland�s �Aradia � gospel of the witches�, which talks about viole ce towards the enemies of the witches referring directly to PRIESTS! It is amusing to read Trad wiccan�s talking about fluffy bunny �whitewashing� of wicca; surely that�s just what Gardner did to Witchcraft?? There are no creeds of harming none in any wi chcraft traditions aside from wicca, and even the origins of wicca expose violence, hexcraft and manipulation! The �traditional� witches, cunning folk and midwives were illiterate (no books of shadows) poor, (no ceremonial swords or learning about the caballa) and mostly women (the most downtrodden members of society). They were concerned with nature because it wa their way of life, and with the seasons and the gods because they affected them day to day. They were certainly NOT priestesses! If you want to learn about Wicca or Ceremonial magic, read books. If you want to know about witchcraft, start with books by all means, but practice! Plant herbs, learn their names, property�s, the governing planet, and how to grow them. Make some herbal eas and brews, try out a flying ointment (not the �traditional� poisonous ones!) and see if you can soar in your mind. These are not useless arts, they are the core of the �craft�. And yes, witches CAN ride on broomsticks, or travel without them. You can o as far as another country without difficulty, using the right techniques and when in good physical health. Oh, and if you are ever unsure about what is �right� in your practice, my advice is to follow your heart, and where possible, ask your Gods; I�ve always found them to be pretty direct and to cut through any bullshit pretty quickly! Oh, and by the way, if you are a Wiccan that does not do magic, then you are definately NOT a witch! Quick quiz for all the fluffy bunnies: what is the difference between monkshood and wolfsbane? Don�t know? Then read Harry Potter, because the (non-witch) author knows more about witchcraft than you do!!! Phew! I feel so much better now....

Greg - 10/24/00 08:43:39
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/greg_sommers/index.html

Comments:
Interesting. I'm not wiccan, but I do agree that the do-it-yourself high priest/ess fluff bunnies have done more harm than good.

Laura - 10/18/00 13:36:06
My Email:irecruit@consultant.com

Comments:
I am seeking a TEACHER. A teacher of witchcraft, not wicca. I agree that wicca is a recent incarnation of the "original" or "traditional" path. While I see everyones points on facts being possibly lost, etc- I do have a hard time accepting that. For c nturies the Indians have passed down their stories verbally. It was painstakingly guarded and taught and retaught to be sure it was passed to the next generation properly. Why do all these "fluffy bunnies" as you call them, think this is not possible wi h witchcraft? For anyone who has studied the history knows the burning times were primarily innocent people, not "real" witches. Someone out there who reads this knows what I'm talking about. YOU are the person I want to teach me. I am up to the task. Like someone said, you can't just pick up the yellow pages and find someone. I have spent months looking for a reputable priest to teach me and initiate me. If you are that person, please email me.

Kahlan - 10/18/00 04:02:31
My URL:http://fly.to/dragongirlsrealm
My Email:dragongirl149@hotmail.com

Comments:
Wicca is supposed to be a religion that understands everyones choices in thier lives and doesn't discriminate against anyone. By this I mean everyone, which is why I understand your need to try to keep it traditional. However I don't think there is such a thing as the traditional Wicca. If you mean the origional idea that was Wicca then how are you ever going to find it. Wicca today is only known due to a few people who have written down their teachings, or the few that survived the burning times and went nderground teaching what they knew. The way that this religion has been passed down makes it very hard to find out exactly what the original ideas were behind the practices. Word of mouth easily leads to parts being forgotten or relayed wrong. The first b ok created by a practicing Wicca on this subject was created many years after the religion started. If you really want to keep it traditional then perhaps you could write a book called 'Traditional Wicca' and allow the people who don't have access to the ways that have been passed down to learn about what you consider to be Wicca. Because when it comes own to it that is all it is. There is no way to discover what is the truly Traditional Wicca, except to read every book we can get our hands on and then determine what we think it is from all this information. And this includes books by authors such as Cu ningham. I have read some of Cunninghams books and I think that how he wrote made it easy for new people to grasp the concepts of Wicca, while allowing them to discover if the path is right for them and feel the urge to read more. Personally you are being very much like the Christians of old, claiming that your way is the only way and that eveyrone else should do things your way. Wicca is an embracing religion, there is no right or wrong way to conduct yourself in it. The only rule of conduct are to honour the Lady and the Lord and to follow the rede: Harm None. This page contains no information that enlightens anyone to anything. Personally I think that this page can create more harm than good because of the doubt that it casts over everyone that is still seeking. If you got out there you would realise that the rue follows are seeking and always will be seeking for the answers to the principles that questioned on this page. Those who are in it for a quick buzz or to gain 'magical powers' will soon leave as they will not have the time or patience to read books an seek answers. I'm sorry if I wasted your time telling you things that you have already heard from many other people. I hope that I have conducted myself here in a way that has not offended you because you are entitled to your views just as I am entitled to mine, howeve something about your views on your page struck something within me and I had to comment on it. Thankyou for your time. ~Kahlan (A seeker!!!!)

Jenna Tigerheart - 10/17/00 16:49:00
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/nc/tigerheart

Comments:
At first I didn't like the idea behind this web site. After all, Wiccans face enough discrimination from the outside and we need not start discriminating against each other. However, after looking deeper I believe I understand the intent here. I am not Wi can. I practice witchcraft, but I have not exactly taken the time to follow Wicca exactly, so I don't claim that title. While I hardly believe half a century is enough to time to have hardground, strict rules in a religion, I have seen my fair share of fr uds. I'm not talking about the fluffy bunnies, mind. I knew a man that claimed to be Wiccan. He slept around with many women, pitted them against each other, tried to disturb the local pagan community, and still claimed to be Wiccan. To me, this breaks th "harm none" rule of Wicca. Perhaps folks would understand the site better if you depict what you mean. How strict do you want your traditional Wicca to be? Follow the short version? The long version? Is it necessary to speak all spells in rhyme? Just a f w thoughts to consider. I believe there is a basic set of rules that all should follow before they should call themselves Wiccan. But if you don't know an elder flower from a toad, that won't bother me. Just admit it.

James Berry - 10/17/00 14:45:33
My URL:http://www.mysteries.n3.net
My Email:james@god.knotwork.com

Comments:
*sigh* Again, I see that people haven't bothered looking into what this site is about. Seems to me that everyone has ignored the first page of this site. No one is slashed for not being an initiate into Traditional wicca. People are slammed for claiming t be wiccan without learning the heritage they lay claim to. Essentially, anyone who calls themselves 'witch' but has done no work to claim that title has been slammed. All of you who are offended, who are sickened by this site should take a good hard look at themselves. Why are you wiccan? Reading a book doesn't make you Craft priesthood anymore than reading the Bible makes you a catholic priest. There is a lot of bloody work involved! Meditation, study, practice of the skills that make effective ritual, l adership skills and a pile of other things must be considered. If this site makes you ill, you should remember that you are only being called a fluffy bunny because you've done nothing to earn the title 'wiccan'. You feel that reading a book is enough to all yourself a witch, when it certainly is not. Elitism is not the issue here, qualifications are. There are enough good books on the market these days that give exercises and meditations of worth, ones which, if practiced everyday, would help make one wo thy of the title. We're supposed to be a faith of priesthood, not priesthood and lay followers, so what seperates our priests from everyone else? Nothing apparently. Everyone thinks they've the right to call themselves 'witch' because they feel like it. T ose people, who have no thought towards working dilligently in the Craft or seeking to know the mysteries they claim to possess by calling themselves priests are the problem. When asked by non-Crafters what something is all about, what gives you the right to claim to have the answers you've never sought out? What oaths have you sworn to the Lady and Horned One? What sacrifices have you made to them? Ask yourself. What really seperates you from the hippie philosophy of the 60s? Many claim the title 'Lady'. ost are not qualified for it. Feel free to email me...if you'd like to really qualify as a priest/ess, I'll happily give you a list of books and some meditations that'll get you wellon your way. There is no shame in saying 'I don't know', or 'I'm no pries /ess, but I'd like to be.' The Christians priests who slam us have years of training. How can we defend our Craft is we know nothing about the history and the heritage that we claim? So many claim to be soldiers for the Gods, but are unarmed, untrained an too jittery for the battlefield. DOn't be sickened by this site, remember that it is only trying to encourage quality in the priesthood, not mere weight of numbers. Throw away your Cunningham and get down to real work. And respect will come too.

Arthanea - 10/17/00 05:58:10
My Email:arthanea@yahoo.com

Comments:
You people suck! This is disgusting!!! This is so gross it almost makes me ashamed to be a Pagan and a Wiccan. I do not fear those that are not seekers (unlike you I am at least somewhat secure in myself and my beliefs) and I realize that the truely fl ffy bunnies will prove themselves just that, most often very quickly. We all prove ourselves, everyday, all the time. Just like you idiots (which is really NOT a strong enough word) are doing with this rediculous dribble.

I'll pass on the name - 10/17/00 02:13:01
My Email:Unfortunately@I.cantgiveyouit.com

Comments:
I personally find the website humorous. I live in the United States of America where hundreds of thousands of people died to allow me to choose my religion and you to choose yours. I respect, while laughing, at some other beliefs in other religions, and do not see any difference here. The creators of this site have a right to voice their frustrations with a people who join a religion as a parting fancy. All other religions do. Let's face it, people who are trying to find their path may try many religio s before finding the appropriate one for them. I did not get from this site that to practice different from the creators' is wrong, just that to not take your religion seriously is. I can't say I disagree with that. I do hope that the creators, and the thers this site have angered, are able to let go of the negative energy they display on these pages and continue on their paths.

James S. Berry - 10/16/00 18:11:09
My URL:http://www.mysteries.n3.net
My Email:james@god.knotwork.com

Comments:
for Selena, Patrick, etc: I don't think this site was made to slash traditions; rather, its point is to seperate those who take the Craft seriously and WORK HARD at it from those who sit on their asses and wear pentacles for fashion, all the while worshipping a watered down mother goddess who is really Christ in drag. Those are the fluffy bunnies. They have no drive or determination, or respect for the initiated priesthood (regardless of tradition) and therefore are little more than fluffy sheep, to be a little more accurate. So I' Gardnerian, you're Alexandrian, or Faery, or Dianic or whatever. Do you work hard at it? Do some meditation every day? Strive to do the will of the gods before your own, and suffer all the agonies and sacrifices they demand of you? If so, call yourself W ccan or witch. But, as I wrote in an earlier post here, if your education in paganism comes from Xena, I've no time for you. Call yourself Peter Cottontail. And that's all I have to say about that.

James S. Berry - 10/16/00 18:01:23
My URL:http://www.mysteries.n3.net
My Email:james@god.knotwork.com

Comments:
Just to comment on Cameron's post...any Mystery religion--including the Elusinian, the Craft, etc.--that is initiatory is by definition a secret society. That's what sets it apart from other faiths, and its priesthood from other priests--the secrets passe on in initiation. Sure, perhaps if there were witches (as we know them) around during the Burning Times they would have continued to be very secretive, but that is exactly it..they would have *continued* to be secretive. But that's just my opinion.

Cameron Reid - 10/16/00 00:44:53
My Email:vudu@wantree.com.au

Comments:
To me it seems like you are trying to make Wicca into a scret society or cult like something from a movie. The only reason why Wiccan's hid their religion in the old days wasnt because they didnt want to share, it was because if they DID share, they'd be illed without a fair trial. Now I did give you my email, and I ask you not to vicously flame me back, as I have only given you my opinion, I'm not wiccan myself, but I am pagan, so just bare in mind that flaming me back si ilegal. Thankyou. Blessed Be Cameron

Cameron Reid - 10/16/00 00:44:21
My Email:vudu@wantree.com.au

Comments:
To me it seems like you are trying to make Wicca into a scret society or cult like something from a movie. The only reason why Wiccan's hid their religion in the old days wasnt because they didnt want to share, it was because if they DID share, they'd be illed without a fair trial. Now I did give you my email, and I ask you not to vicously flame me back, as I have only given you my opinion, I'm not wiccan myself, but I am pagan, so just bare in mind that flaming me back si ilegal. Thankyou. Blessed Be Cameron

Dragonah and Lady Sarah - 10/15/00 22:18:52
My Email:teresa@rubyridge.com

Comments:
We just cannot believe the ridiculous nature and immaturity of whoever created this site. Selena Ivy FireSinger (who also posted a comment here on 10/12/00) had it entirely correct--Shame on you! And let us also add this (and this is to everyone who agr es with the viewpoint of this website)-- The masses that watch "The Craft" or "Charmed" or some crap like that, and decide that they want to be "Witches" too so they can give people heart attacks and make their "dreamguy/dreamgirl" fall in love with them are irritating to everyone, I think. if you really do feel so strongly about this, you're not going to get your point across by ridiculing and discriminating against those who would/could be your allies at one point. The world's a small place, guys, and you never know when you might need the help of a so-called "fluffy bunny". There are two kinds of class--first and none. With this website, you're doing nothing but telling the world that you're the second kind.

Kundra - 10/15/00 12:29:36
My Email:In perfect love & trust (not)

Comments:
Oh dear another person telling me what i am and am not, by their standards... Hmmm I dont think i care Have a wonderful day

lila and lola lillian lapana - 10/13/00 19:18:49
My URL:http://www.whitehouse.com
My Email:president@whitehouse.gov

Comments:
5. Hung Mung slapped his buttocks, hopped about, and shook his head, saying "I do not know! I do not know!" HBT; The Book of Gooks, Chap. 1 "Everything is true - Everything is permissible!" -><- -Hassan i Sabbah

...::[ Cute Lil Witchy Puff - 10/13/00 18:25:54
My URL:http://www.monkeys.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi
My Email:cutelilwitchypuff@yahoo.com

Comments:
I think your ideas are really great. Or do you think your ideas are really great and i'm simply displaced spacially? I feel sorry for the little bunnies. They have to wear that hot fur all the time, they can't buy cigarettes, they've got Jesus and Moham ed crawling inside the suits with them... Really guys, maybe the whole sacraficial thing is kinda old. Can't we all just get some tongs? Or howabout bongs? Maybe sing songs while wearing thongs and smoking bongs with the Viet Cong?!?! Now THERE's a r tual!

b - 10/13/00 16:02:53
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/4nongoths/index.html
My Email:not a chance

Comments:
righyho... first up, who am i bashing? wiccans? fluff bunny wiccans? or the peeps that put up this page in the first place?

wicca is not an ancient tradition

it's been around for less than half a century - even the druidry crowd can claim a longer tradition than that, and that's just from when they first appeared in the late 1800's... wicca isn't ancient, any more than, say, mobile phones are ancient.

Robert L. Meadows - 10/13/00 13:19:26

Comments:
While I am not a fluffy, and do bemoan that much has been lost since *I* entered the craft back in 87. I think that this: Well, why don't you tell us about Traditional Wicca? You're a seeker. Try seeking. is part of the problem. Elders aren't stepping forward to help teach these new kids. There are people out there that are genuinely interested in learning, but the only options they have are A. Books (which, while there ARE more books out there now than hen "we" were first seeking, you must agree that the "signal to noise" ratio is very low) or B. Other "Wiccans" (most of which, these days, fall under your definition of fluffy bunnidom) There is an enormous upswell in interest (caused by whatever reasons) in Wicca. To keep with the old way of "find me if you can, then I *may* teach you" is to consign the potential of genuine Seekers to the clutches of the very "fluffy bunnidom" you are emoaning. At the risk of sounding like a bunny... "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!"

Kathleen O'Brien-Blair - 10/13/00 04:01:01
My Email:ktho@kc.rr.com

Comments:
I just surfed in by happy accident...Gee - you don't get much traffic do ya? Oh well...Less crowding.... I read your position paper and you response to the rants.....Yes!!!!!!! At last - common sense and plain speaking.....Rather refreshing actually.... I'm not Trad....but I wholeheartedly agree with you and support you. Unfortunately, I don't have a web-page or I'd be proud and happy to fly your banners for you... Right on!!! You just keep a twistin' those knickers...they need it in the worst way..... Well, I'm off to bash some bunnies (what fun! - gotta pass along that URL...) Go clenchbutts!!!! Hooray for elitist jerks!!!! Best Regards, Kathleen - yeah, I *do* dare - O'Brien-Blair Kansas City, MO....Momma needs a new bunny coat... a.k.a Lady High Muckety-Muck Berserks with Freya of the Jus Me trad....

michael - 10/12/00 20:44:58
My Email:ethercloud@webtv.net

Comments:
thank you for giving us a voice!!!!! finally i find someone else that feels the same as i do. i was initiated 7 years ago by a gardnerian high priestess who was working soitary, but since then she past over to the christian religon. now i am totally al ne, except for the fluffy bunnies. could you please help me, i am despartly looking for others i can study with, learn from and grow with.

alaidh - 10/12/00 20:15:56
My Email:What tradition???

Comments:
As a hereditary, I was curious about what tradition you were talking about - like, the paint ain't even dry yet........ Alaidh

Patrick McKinnion - 10/12/00 17:17:05
My URL:http://home.pacbell.net/patmck/

Comments:
Sigh. Pagan Fundamentalists. Had to happen someday. There are a few that bemoan the fact we're more open and gaining more acceptance now, and miss the days were we were a closeted "mystery" religion. Myself, having been in the Craft since 1983, don't miss it in the least - the only way we're ever going to evolve and the only way we're ever going to be recognized as a true religion is by not being secretive or hidden. Yes, there's a batch of new age cosmic foo-foo fluff bunnies. And I'm sure we've all rolled our eyes at people like "Lady Olwen Puffbottom of the Circle of Cute Fuzzy Unicorns", or the supposed High Priestess showing up somewhere public wearing full ri ual robes, 20 kilos of celtic knotwork jewelry, and a pentagram the size of a VW hubcap. My take is that, in time, they will either go on to the next trend, or grow and change in wisdom - and discover the names and jewelry is not as important as what's within.

CPD - 10/12/00 14:36:28
My URL:http://Oh-Please
My Email:I-have-enough

Comments:
This sounds a little like Hitler and the need for the MASTER RACE. We don't need the Christians trying to get rid of us...we are going to do it to ourselves... sounds to me like the Rede means nothing to you for you to say and encourage these things. If religious bashing is the Wiccan way what difference is there from any of the other religions? I believed that Wiccan's were different in that they truly did not udge. I guess I was wrong. Another religion bites the dust...

Selena Ivy FireSinger - 10/12/00 13:10:10
My URL:http://www.ward-hq.org
My Email:webmistress@ward-hq.org

Comments:
You know, we in WARD have enough problems dealing with discrimination of people outside of Wicca against us, and now you want to discriminate against each other. Shame on you! The only way that we will EVER be accepted is to work together as a community, not stab each other in the back and fight over who the real Wiccans are. It's sad, really, that you'd hurt the cause by your own pettiness and narrow-mindedness.

Mockingbear Wolf - 10/12/00 12:25:52
My Email:mockingbear@excite.com

Comments:
Because I dislike religious discrimination in any form, this page bothers me. Maybe some don't believe exactly as you do- but that is ok. I have been studying for eleven years. I waited five years before attempting any magic. I felt that I needed to study study, study (from books) because I did not have a live teacher. I am a solitary who seeks constantly. But I too started out as a fluffy bunny. Each person must follow their own path and each path is valid. Some of us search the ancient mythologies and ven archeological records in our quest for the truth. Others do indeed read one book and declare, "I am Witch" or "I am Wiccan". I do believe in Karma and I do believe in the three fold law. But I have also used my own menstrual blood for a heavy duty pro ection and don't threaten my family spell. I am Witch. Do I fit your definition of Witch? I don't care- because I know my heart and I know the study and effort I have put into learning. I don't believe in hiding in the shadows because this just adds to people's suspicion. On a final note, this page reminds me of all the Christian and Catholic infighting.....

A Friend - 10/12/00 07:08:51

Comments:
Things weren't all that great in the Craft 30-40 years ago. There was an awful lot of emotional manipulation going on, the notion of "karma" or the three fold return wasn't discussed much, if at all, and an awfullot of groups did think that it came from Atlantis, via Lemuria and the Druids. OTOH, there was a lot more flexibility in practices, the Gardnerians hadn't declared some folks to be heretics for exercising good sense and moral behavior, and there were no "reculements" to remove those deemed to be creative or simply different. We didn't have people trying to be Wiccan popes, either. Ethics can pretty much be attributed to Starhawk, there wasn't much discussion of them before then. Maybe the goal should be to create the best Wicca that has ever ex

Paul - 10/07/00 09:01:30
My Email:paul.weatherly@ic24.net

Comments:
What none of you seem to realise is that there was Wicca (whether it was called that or not) before Gardner. He claimed to have been initiated into an older coven himself, and used that as a basis. I don't know how far back the real, pre-Gardnerian cove s went back (certainly they weren't ancient), but I know there were some out there. Agree about the fluffy bunnies though.

Ken Ra - 10/02/00 23:55:40
My Email:Triskellion1@usfamily.net

Comments:
Gerald Gardener built something that became the foundation for modern y2k craft. Not even the hardest core Gardenerians regard him as Divine. So why do the new kids think so? 99% of all modern Wicca, witchcraft, Druidism, paganism, New Age, Shamanism a d Nativeamericanism have him as one of their spiritual ancestors. ( if you don�t believe me check out these movements founders history before they started up their trip ) He wasn�t perfect but he was there. What he built has proved its value by surviving o today. Darwinian spiritual evolution. If you have any history in your soul you owe him some (not total) respect. The offshoots of what he built are Traditional Wicca They had and in many cases still have The Religion The Magic and the Coven Family. Som Trads are full of shit but many many more are doing their best to serve the Lord and Lady. This is better greater and much more Nobel than those who are only out to serve their own small selves. What�s in it for me? by itself this question is small, pet y and suitable for spoiled brats. What�s in it for us all ? is a better question. What can I do to help The Gods and everyone on this planet ? is more of an adult question. How can I serve? is what a Priest/ess asks themselves. To put down Wicca because its only a fifty year old tradition is a simple ploy to level the playing field for those who�s "practice" is only as old as yesterdays chili fart. The real competition is not in Venerable Age, Spiritual Superlatives or in HOLY Books written by our Great God Given Spiritual Authority and published by Llewelin or various other impressive BS. The real competition is in have we helped the world and our own people ? Have we built something that works and will last? Have we done something real? Back in 1970 Wicca was it all. It was the Religion, spell casting, and the coven family. Over the years people have given up various parts and changed others. Now we have Priests, Initiates, Ritualists, solitaires, believers and spell casters as parts we e discarded. It used to be enough to say I was Wiccan. It described roughly where I was and what I was trying to live up to. Today the popular meanings have changed and everything is in upheaval. Wicca has popularly become just the religion, not the su of it all that it was and still is for the Trads. Most of the people disrespecting the Trads have no accomplishments of their own. They have built nothing, serve nothing greater than themselves and helped no one. Dogmatic and rebellious adolescents are even more aggravating than Dogmatic and constipated elders". When you have accomplished something real yourself, you tend to respect those others who have also done something real. Sincere and ernest beginners are our hope for the future. There must be respect for those who came before us and respect for those who will carry on after us. Ken Ra, Elder

Ken Ra, Elder - 10/02/00 23:53:32
My Email:Triskellion1@usfamily.net

Comments:
On October 1 I came to this site to post to " The Masses open their yaps" instead of being able to, I found that Geocities had lost the page necessary. I contacted the original inspiration for the site only to find out that there was no way to recover it Looking for a " Keep Wicca traditional 2 " I came back to this site to find it repaired. This site means nothing to the Bunnies on their way to the Great Gothic Cheesecake Competition. But for me it is almost the only place where I can find serious people who care about the Craft. I am Internet illiterate with no web building skills at all. Is there someone who can build " Keep Wicca Traditional 2 " I need it to continue and I believe the Craft needs it to continue.

Britney Athame - 09/27/00 16:06:04
My Email:staff4u2@wiccaworld.com

Comments:
Gee, now we know where all the people kissing, licking, and fondling Gardners' rotted arse are - creating this asinine website...

neither mundane, nor craft, but you can call me anything but late for dinner. - 09/14/00 02:02:48
My URL:http://not on the net.com
My Email:oh yeah, sure I'll tell you

Comments:
Wonderful site, and beautiful sentiment. I personally have had it up to here with people who think you don't even need to seek after initiation (much less initiate) to be a Wiccan. What a load of horse#@%*! The people this phenomenon really stigmatizes, I HO are all of the Witches in that "grey" area; i.e. initiated into closely related traditions without Gardnerian lineage. So, being in said grey area, I have dedicated to Brit Trad to make damn sure no-one tries to confuse me with these fluff bunny pinhea s. And as for Silver Buckingham Grimasco (play spot the Llewellyn author with that anagram), I think their books should have to be printed with a blanket disclaimer: "Warning, reading this won't make you a Wiccan. Further, this book contains lies, platitudes and BS!" Thanks for the space to rant!

Ketira shena Pretara'sedrin - 09/10/00 21:14:37
My URL:http://ketira.tripod.com/
My Email:ketira@lycos.com

Comments:
Everyone has their own mysteries; everyone has their own secrets. I keep mine to myself... on second thought, I won't.... ........................................................................So what do I believe? I'm so glad you asked..... I believe that there exists a Supreme Being that created this Multiverse, a Being that is both male and female and yet neither. I call this Being The One Who Always IS --after all, the Being just IS. We humans cannot understand the One, but we can u derstand the two sides of the one --the male deity (god) and female deity (goddess). To me, both God and Goddess are equal in power, and coexist side by side. I know that there are at least 10,000 names for each of Them, which is why I respect all relig ons. God and Goddess are two sides of the One, and no matter what Name is used, it's still the same deity, just in a different uniform. I learned that lesson when a friend of mine called on Odin --and Christ showed up in that uniform. So now at least you know what male deity I go by: Christ. Not just what has been shown in the Bible; I have talked to Him in many guises. He is what every man should strive for: caring, gentle at times, firm at others, giving the support that only Father can give. The female deity has changed since 1991, when Isis first came to me. I had been learning about Her and serving her (I suppose since I did so in a past Life) until 2 years ago. What happened then? Sekhmet showed up and said that I was now HER chil , and HER Jester. (She said she had enough Priests.) Since then, Sekhmet has been turning my Life upside-down, and has been a Mother to me when my own mother hasn't been there to help me. She is what every woman should strive to be: caring, loving, f rm at times, gentle at others...... sound familiar? I have what many people yearn to have: a working relationship with my deities. To me, They are as real as anyone else, and have kept me from suiciding. I know I cause ripples in certain circles, but that's their problem, not mine. As you can see, I know who I am and whose I am and I make no bones about it! .............................................................Truth is, I just make it all up as I go along, just like Scott Cunningham said in all his wonderful Llewellyn books!

Ketira shena Pretara'sedrin - 09/09/00 23:40:00
My URL:http://ketira.tripod.com/
My Email:ketira@lycos.com

Comments:
First off, let me state that I am Spiritually Eclectic: this means that I do not follow any *one* religion, but learn from *all* religions. I am currently studying Wicca/Witchcraft, and it's going to be a long haul..... but that's not my reason for comme ting here. I have read some of the comments, some of the more recent ones, and I wonder: Why do this at all? The only constant in Life itself is Change, and this applies to religion as well as anything else that is part of Life. Sure there are the fluffy-bun ies in Wicca, but that is true of *all* religions --or did you not realize that? This is why I am *Spiritually Eclectic* and solitary; I am free to study other religions and see what works for me. You are not the only Seekers in this world; we are *all* Seekers at heart, searching for what each of us knows is true. I feel that as long as one does not infringe upon the rights of others, and seeks their own religion and their own truth, what is there to matter? You are going to be like the Christians one day. Nostradamus said that Christianity will soon fall; you will also do the same if you do not change and flow with the Changes of Time. Everyone has their own mysteries; everyone has their own secrets. I keep mine to myself and share what I wish to s are; will you do the same?

- 09/09/00 19:21:22

Comments:
I am a traditional Wiccan. But I don't see how this will stop the fluffy bunnies. My feeling is let them run through their fad. The traditional craft will remain in the shadows where it has been for centuries, because fluffy bunnies don't have what it akes to see a proper course of study through to initiation. It's true that the name of witchcraft is receiving yet another coat of psychadelic varnish of untruthful definitions, but then again,...what's new. I remain faithfully devoted in the shadows. Loetree

your conscience - 09/08/00 22:44:35

Comments:
How dare you use the pink ribbon for us breast cancer survivors for your own means. We have spent years getting the needle moved with this symbol (since '92) and I would appreciate if you didn't appropriate the use of a symbol many people have spent years making credible, for your little web site.

Deera - 09/08/00 21:08:18
My Email:wolfwench@yahoo.com

Comments:
Hey...Id like to thank everyone for entertaining me so....I am gettin alittle sick of the self-righteousness. Everyone knows more than God/s ...probably always will. Listen to yourselves really. Fluffbunnies get on my nerves too...But so do know-it-alls nd self proclaimed "ADEPTS". Do You think Id sit here and tell you All about MY beliefs????? Um NO....But in the words of my wise auntie..."If I wanted YOUR OPINION, Id READ your entrails....:)

J.P. (again) - 09/07/00 03:05:18
My Email:pagan@celticweb.com

Comments:
For the record.. my knee-jerk post was in response to the email of Mon, 06 Jul 1998 14:10:38 +1200 in the "Bite me email section for Angry Bunnies"........ I've read further in this section, and now *I* get it. :) The original point of this now abandoned web site, and my hats off to you lady... it was brilliant. (My original point still stands.. my other is older than Wicca) heheee. Good for you.

J.P. Armbrewster - 09/06/00 23:47:47
My Email:pagan@celticweb.com

Comments:
I found your site, and thought, damn, someone GETS IT!!! Then was disapointed. Truly, at the heart, you are a fluffy-bunny yourself that must be living in shame. You DON'T get it.. there is nothing tradional about WICCA.. Witchcraft, yes, but WICCA is o ly 50 years old, dreamed up by GB Gardner, Alister Crowley, and possibly some input from Jack Parsons. It's a fact.. stop believing everything you read as gospel truth. Wicca is a new tradion, based on european paganism, Freemasonry, the Ordo Templi Ori ntis, etc etc etc, it's easy to find proof of this if you'll just look. As a 10 year Wiccan, I found and accepted the truth. You can too. I AGREE with you Fluffy Bunnies are disgusting, but you are throwing stones from your glass house my friend. In the Irate Bunnies section you write. "If Wicca is a new idea and a new philosophy on life, give it a new name, not an old and established one that describes something else. Call it "Neo-Wicca" to differentiate yourself from clenchbutts like us. But don t tell me it's a new philosophy and a new way of thinking and then claim to be practicing an old religion. " But WICCA is a new path, it's only 50 years old, YOU'RE doing the same thing that you accuse them of doing, you claim to be practicing an OLD religion... if you're practicing WICCA, you're NOT. Look into it, open your eyes... dare to think for yourself. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of thy law. PERIOD. (By the way, the email is real, go ahead and use it if you're not a total BLATERING idiot, I'll reply)

KRF - 09/01/00 18:48:43
My Email:puritybrown@ihateclowns.com

Comments:
Bring back the mysteries, you say? "Mystery is just another word for muddle." -- E.M. Forster

Lady Astrael - 08/16/00 23:05:09
My URL:http://www.members.tripod.com/lady_astrael/iowa-witches
My Email:ladyastrael@hotmail.com

Comments:
I have read through some of your postings and while I agree with some of the people I do not change my views. I do believe that we all live and learn and that we need experience to grow. But why not get the right experience before you chose? I believe this is called research. I have a page set up that is dedicated to the history of WITCHCRAFT not wicca per se' as Wicca is a new traditional word. I guess you could say that I was Wiccan when Wiccan wasn't cool. But all kidding aside I believe we should just live and let live. I am not a fluffy bunny and never have been. There are places out there that will teach the real Craft and not just the sweet stuff. But hey, that seems to be what the kids want these days so they drench the experience with molasses and call it Wicca. Well, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, but, I am a WITCH not a Wiccan. I was taught the ol ways and my spells DO include some blood and I do have some love spells as well. Well, I have probably ticked some of you off but at this time I could give a rats &%%%$$ I am finally saying what I feel and it is that Witches are not necessarialy Wiccans. We are Witches and Witches alone. So Blessed Be. Lady Astrael

Lady Astrael - 08/16/00 22:29:05
My URL:http://www.members.tripod.com/lady_astrael/iowa-witches
My Email:ladyastrael@hotmail.com

Comments:
I do agree with you. Witchcraft today has really gotten too sugary and sweet. Not that I have anything evil in mind but this rule of not doing any white magick is unreal. I feel that no matter what magick you do it affects someone somewhere in a negative ay. And if the rede says "an it harm none...do what ye will" well, that leaves magick out all together. I don't see any white or black magick per se' I see only shades of gray. Hey, who knows? Not me. I've only been practicing the Craft for 32 years now. have done some spells that were not white magick and I had no ill effects from them. So what do you think about this? The question is open for reveiw and later I plan to take some spelling classes. Thank you for letting me post this have fun. Lady Astrael

moi - 08/15/00 20:51:35
My Email:whatever

Comments:
At first sight I thought this site might have had merrit. However, upon seeing that there is not much meaningful persuasive writing on this site, I have become disappointed. At least write some good challenging material that might make people think. Fu thermore, the saying "Keep Wicca Traditional" is an oxymoron, as we are talking about the fifty-year "old religion".

Eliya - 08/13/00 05:25:07
My URL:www.insert-the-tradition's-name-here.net
My Email:hidden in plain sight

Comments:
Let's face it: there are two religions, both called "Wicca" by outsiders. Yours is an interesting site, but indeed much of a slanging-match. I sincerely hope that in the fullness of time the Neos and the Gardies can learn how to share the sandbox, although I must note that (in my experience at least) it's the would be Pagan Mes iahs who are more likely to hurt us than the New Right (who are too busy day-trading to worry about us.) I am a Gardnerian HPS myself, and learning, by my own Queen's good example, to stay out of the limelight. Eliya

Jenii - 08/11/00 09:02:37
My Email:SOFTGATORGIRL@aol.com

Comments:
I beleive it should be traditional. I do not want my beleifs labeled as "neo". My problem is, I am of scotish descent. I want to be as traditional to my ancestors as I can be, being in america now. Both my parents are Scottish, and though I have never een there, I participate in all the festivals in my area and belong to my clan group. Any one with info on TRADITIONAL scottish wicca I will owe you, I do not abide by "scotican" or such.

Rhiannon - 08/04/00 04:46:08
My Email:*gwendolyn*@berlin.com

Comments:
Hmmmm....well, this site does make a point. But, I really don't understand how you perceive that all "Wiccans" read one book, like Scott Cunninghams "Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practioner", and think that they are set for life. When I begain embarkin on a more pagan spiritual path, I did not think it would be easy. I never perceived Silver Ravenwolf's or Scott Cunningham's books to be the only things I would ever have to study. I figure, I'll probably be studying for the rest of my life, as it should be. I am not exactly sure if I'm a Wiccan, but I know I'm a follower of some Earth relegion, I just haven't found out what it is yet. One of the things that does piss me off though is some encounters I have had with supposed Traditional Wiccans. When I ha e told them that I write my own Sabbat rituals and that every spell, full moon rite,etc that I have done in my entire life has been exclusively written by me and my friend in the Craft(sister), they look at me with amazement and tell me that this is not r ght. They tell me that I should follow a set order of rituals written by some clan or coven long ago. And I say to them that no, my relegion for me is a personal relationship with nature and what I feel is the Divine. I say that organized relegion sucks a d hierarchy in relegion only corrupts it. Fight the power!!!!!!

Dana Corby - 07/19/00 16:23:19
My Email:dana.c@juno.com

Comments:
I'm of mixed feelings about this site. I've been an initiated priestess for nearly 30 years in a Trad that now is considered Brit-Trad but when formed called itself eclectic. On the one hand, I agree that the fluffy-bunnies are a pain in the ass and give us a bad name -- not to mention making it nearly impossible to find dedicants who aren't totally freaked out by the idea that this is about transformation, not validation -- while agreeing that people have to start somewhere. I own -- and use -- copies of "To Ride a Silver Broomstick" (the worksheets are invaluable, if people would only xerox & use them) and most of Scott Cunningham; where most writers on magic exude 'tude, he's modest and informative and a good read. I think the real problem is not the te nagers -- they'll either learn better or go away -- but those who've been at this for years & ought to know better spouting white lite (sp deliberate) crap and saying that those of us who practice anything else are "dark" "dangerous" and to be avoided by sincere seekers. It's happening in my own Community. When explaining the relationship between Pagans and Witches/Wiccans to outsiders, I generally say that just as Methodists are not Episopalians but both are Christians and worship the same god, so Wicca exists as its own "denomination" within the larger Pagan designation -- and worship the same Gods. They are not synonymous but they ARE harmonious. The problem as I see it is that Paganism is a valid path for those who are not called to Wicca, but they d n't know that. There really is room in the world for "fluffy bunny" Paganism, and as long as it does not call itself Wicca it does no harm. Anything that directs someone's attention to their relationship with the rest of the natural world is in my opinion good. Not every Pagan is suited to be a Witch, any more than (for instance) all Catholics should be Jesuits or all Jews Talmudic scholars. Wicca does not and can not claim any exclusive access to the Goddess and God. Worship them in your own way by all me ns, but don't think that makes you a Witch. It makes you a Pagan, an honorable name in itself.

Barbara - 07/14/00 22:45:22
My Email:olive_picklefeather@yahoo.com

Comments:
I have read everyone's comments. I am in the middle. When I started out I was a "fluffy bunny" - I didn't think so, but I was. I thought that I believed everything that Cunningham and Ravenwolf said. Well, I didn't. I thought being a Wiccan was easy and h ppy. It isn't. (But I am not saying that it is not rewarding.) I learned it takes discpline and study (not just magic techniques, but also history and myth). I think a problem which many "wiccan" books is that they don't portray it accurately. They make W cca seem like a happy, hippy, cure-all religion. It isn't that either. Admittedly, I have some of Cunningham's and Ravenwolf's books. I bought them while I was a "fluffy bunny." Some of the information can be useful and it can be a way into Wicca; however most of it is junk. When I read them now, I laugh a bit. While I don't totally agree with the author(s) of this page, they bring up some excellent points.

Tam Lin - 07/08/00 14:42:30
My Email:none

Comments:
As a seeker in a Gardnerian Outer Court myself, I've come to realize that the Wiccan Rede, while a nice idea, is not part of the tenets of Gardnerian Wicca. If it's not part of one of the older British Trads, then perhaps, just perhaps, it's not really a part of others... I'm thinking that, just maybe, the Rede was a tidbit done up by Traditional Wiccans and circulated among the cowan circles so that none of the Fluffy Bunnies hurt themselves.

Melly - 07/08/00 13:30:56
My Email:um... no, no offence I just don't want to

Comments:
I just want to say... You people are very right. I used to be a fluffy bunny, I'm still learning witchcraft, but not Wicca, I'm a Neopagan. And "witchcraft is not easy, no matter what those new-age idiots say" direct quote from my brother who isn't even a Witch. Good luck everybody, but try not to insult the newbies, we all start out as bunnies and most of us grow out of it. Except the new age idiots who think staring into a crystal will heal you and that you karma will be pured all I can say to that is (Ha Ha Ha) Not the karma the pure KARMA that they think they'll get. God/dess Bless

Sagittar - 06/29/00 18:47:32
My URL:Not saying . . .
My Email:How stupid do you think I am?

Comments:
Conservative action usually brings everything down the tubes eventually . . . the question is what's at the end of those tubes. Think about it . . . everyone's got to begin somewhere. Give everyone a while to learn, some time to gain a slightly less flu fy shell, and eventually the dabblers will fade. I myself do not limit myself to one name brand of alteration . . . the day I force myself to conform myself to a priesthood or any other order's expectations is the day i lose what makes me different. The e are other ways of going about things that make your traditional wiccan arts look like ultimate fluffy beginners. Got that, hypocrite? The last thing you need is to give yourself a high profile. Don't reject what is not your way . . . everyone and eve ything can offer a different view on the world and whatever else, a view that just might let you pass by whatever it is that blocks you from your goals. In the tradition of a Spirit Seeker I ask you what you know, and I look at your opinions, though I ma not agree with them, and I will come away from this page a wiser winged humanoid. Now I will leave you to your devices, since you have probably looked over this with the eyes of one quite skilled at rejecting others' opinions and discoveries. How typic lly human. Perhaps I will reach someone . . . one of your readers, if not you.

Notanother Ravenwolf - 06/27/00 05:14:01
My URL:http://carpenoctemxiii.excelland.com
My Email:corvyn@hotmail.com

Comments:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I love this site! I'm so sick of "wiccans" overuseing the various combinations of Silver Raven or Wolf. Also I'd like to express my pissed-off-ness about Raven (another one NOOOO!!) Grimassi...if any of you think this self proclaimed prophet of Aradia i for real, I got a nice fairy stick for ya to buy...keep up the good work!

Crystal Reardon - 06/25/00 18:52:32
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/nv/Crystal/index.html
My Email:ActCrystal@yahoo.com

Comments:
Merry meet, Im not saying your wrong or that your correct about anything but people do have different ways of practicing Wicca...if someone feels like being more free then tradional its their choice...take Christians for example.. their religion has changed so much o er the years and they all have different beliefs. I really think its not that big of a deal.. so please dont be so negitive about it. I am a memeber of the yahoo club:Children Of The Dark Gods & Goddesses, and your webpage was posted as a link. I really h pe that you dont view me as a fluffybunny because I believe in the old and new tradions.. since I am very young (13) and also am raised in a Christian/Jewish family I feel it is good to have a balance of both tradions... I know that to you my age raises a red flag but I am not uneducated and I am always trying to find out more about my path and am always finding out more and more about Wicca and Witchcraft. I am a seeker and I am seeking! (Smile) I follow the Wiccan and Witches Rede and I hope you do to... ust be alittle nicer to the "fluffybunnies" as you call them because Karma will come back to you. They are not bad people set out to destroy your religion...Well, I bet your tired of hearing me and you probably wont even understand my view so Im just goin to keep the rest to myself. Love & Light, Crystal

Alden - 06/22/00 21:46:49

Comments:
Well, shoot; let's all go out, hug a tree, do a tap dance for our Barbie-doll conception of the Great Goddess, and contemplate our linty navels, now shall we? How long are people going to PLAY at witchcraft instead of buckling down, studying it, living it, and honouring the Gods and Goddesses we ideate who in a sublimer form of which we have no concept created all this intricate, beautiful and workable Universe? By all means, why don't we get silly on mead, sing meaningless drivel, and take pride in looking like ragamuffins thrown out of the local county dump? Everyone else does, right? It's really too much bother to wear a neat robe, a tasteful amount of jewelry, and act as if we truly love the Mighty Ones we say we follow... And why learn magick? Just go out and buy a spell kit! Candle already "charged," the catalog says. Isn't that better than meditating, chanting, SEEING the results in our minds and enforcing our collective will in the ways our High Priestesses and High Priests attempted to teach us? It's SO much easier to go out and buy something than to really work. Do we want Christians and other cowans to see us for what we are? We do? Good. Then let's try to be our best. And that does mean traditional!

Serenity - 06/16/00 06:09:38

Comments:
Okay, well I have heard it all now. I am new to Wicca, but that doesn't mean that I am a teenage brat ready to defy my parents by wearing black clothing or large pentacles. Actually, I am secretive about my religious views. I don't shout out to the wor d, "Hey, I am a Witch". I am a normal, everyday kind of person and if you were to see me walking down the street you wouldn't even know what my beliefs are. Now I realize you all are entitled to your own opinions just like everyone else. However, I hav read a few things from other sites and books and yes I have read one by Scott Cunningham, but that doesn't make me "a fluffly bunny" as you so call it. How the heck is a person supposed to learn if you people are just going to sit here and criticize the for doing so. You say take it seriously and make your decisions wisely, yet you won't have the patience or tolerance that is needed when dealing with those of us "newbies" that are only beginning. I don't sit here and claim to know everything, but yes do call myself a Witch. Just because I have only been studying a short time doesn't give you the right to bash me for it. So, you think Scott Cunningham sucks as an author? Well, I don't see on this site any kind of suggested reading list that doesn't suck, in your opinion. You say we should seek out what Traditional Wicca really is. Okay I have been seeking and from what I have found you are a pathetic example of a Wiccans yourselves. The Rede says,"Harm ye none, do what ye will". So, I guess you igure that it is okay to ignore that for the moment because you are angry about the publicity Wicca is receiving. You are frustrated because you believe it has become some sort of fad that is spreading every day. Fine, but that doesn't give you the righ to sit there and bash others. Maybe you should try posting information on Traditional Wicca since it seems to be hard to find information on this aspect due to the fad that is taking place instead of sitting here and bashing those of us trying to learn he mysteries behind the art. I take my learning seriously and it angers me to hear people such as yourselves claiming to be Wiccans of such high degree while learning nothing from all those years of study. This information you have provided here just pr ves your wasting your time studying if this is all that you have learned from it. No, I have not chosen a particular Tradition yet, but that doesn't make me a fluffy bunny either. It just means that I am taking this seriously enough to research all the different Traditions before I commit myself to one particular way of thinking as it should be an important decision one makes. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for what you have done here. The only aspect of this entire site that I even remotely agree with is the need for information on the more structured side of Wicca. It isn t good to be sitting around without direction, well at least in my opinion. However, no one really asked me what I thought and I don't recall asking for you opinion either. I guess I figured since you were going to throw yours in my face, then I would t row mine in yours. So, there it is, IN YOUR FACE!!!

Kathleen - 06/11/00 21:33:28
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/k_garber/morgan.html
My Email:kath@leslie@hotmail.com

Comments:
I just wanted to convey my thoughts. While I don't necessarily agree with the way witches are portrayed in the movies or tv, I don't think us wiccans are really letting out the secret or mysteries of wicca/witchcraft *yes I know their is a difference* I l arned the mysteries on my own, although I am sure that there are more. Yes, I have a wiccan page, it is to help those that are interested in it but don't have the access to other forms of information. Its just the basics, I don't tell any secrets. I under tand your point of view and think you have the right to post it, just as I have the right to post mine. I neither totally agree nor totally disagree with you, , I am in between. A fence sitter which I don't think is so bad. If you haven't seen it already, you may be interested in the page called why wiccan suck. You can find its link and my thoughts on it (if you care) at http://www.oocities.org/k_garber/suck.html Thanks for listening to me. PS. What IS the difference between witchcraft and Witchcraft?

Artemis - 06/10/00 15:45:25
My URL:http:// don't have
My Email:Yeah... right...

Comments:
I've read this web-site through. Even though I'm not Wiccan I'm quite offended. Since when is being Eclectic bad for a tradition. I personally have never hared about traditional Wicca, I've heard of Wiccan traditions but never this. You make the Wiccan religion sound like something only stuffy, bitter people should learn. And how dare you judge people who do this and that and noy YOUR this and that. I can see your point of veiw and yes some of the new people who enter Wicca are fluffy bunnies, but remember most of them are learning and don't know all the ropes yet. So what if they see the world through pink shades that's there buisness not yours. And the whole "Love thy neighbor" (I spelled it wrong I know) I don't agree with it either I think that tenent is wrong because you can't LOVE everyone. But at least of some respect for those who are different than you. So they aren't traditional so what, religion changes as nature does, if you can't accept that then, well I suppose you're in the wrong faith. Please take what people post here seriously. Anf may the Gods Bless

Smiley - 06/06/00 00:12:52

Comments:
Danu, you sound like an idiot! A 4th Degree Witch you say ? 7th Gneration Witch you say ? News for ya toots, Fam Trads don't use a multiple Degree system, that is something that came from Gardner and his contemporaries.

samantha - 06/03/00 20:27:28
My Email:harlequinrose@hotmail.com

Comments:
i am a teenager. i am a wiccan. i would probably fall in your "fluffy bunny" category. look, i call myself a wiccan because through several years of searching i've finally come to something that makes sense to me on a gut-emotion level and an educated thinking level. maybe i don't practice traditional wicca, and maybe i did read scott cunni ghams books, but i'm still growing and learning, and in NO WAY do i claim to know as much as someone who has practiced for years. i think that this sight doesn't allow for people like me who WANT to grow in faith and come, in time, to a more traditional practice. but then, as i am a teenager, there are so many things i don't know about and so much more to this faith that i haven't y t discovered, so i don't claim to fully understand it. please, though, allow for the ones who WANT to and strive to learn samantha

Danu SilverStar - 06/02/00 21:25:53
My Email:star_learningcenter@mailcity.com

Comments:
I agree with you on bringing Wicca back to being more Traditional, but you have some extremely harsh and unrealistic ways of looking at it. First off, Wicca it self isn't that old. Witchcraft is...second Wicca shouldn't be locked behind doors, it should e open to those with an open mind. Yes, I get ticked off when the "I've been in Wicca two months and already know more than you" or those who know nothing of the Craft, but is it fair to yell and holler at them? No, try to educate them instead of getting ngery. Wicca is about peace, and positivity. Bringing our selves closer to the Lord and Lady. Don't confuse that with hate. And please don't turn this letter against me, you've already made a complete fool of yourself, prove me wrong and think before you peak. "Frustration. Boredom. A belief that open mindedness, when taken to extremes, can be just as bad as closed mindedness when it is taken to extremes. Call it a backlash." Funny you sound like the old Christians who were burning our ancestors... And what do you have against Scott Cunningham? What they he had more balls than you and that he probably was billions of time more a Wiccan than you could ever be? "You know, you people aren't very nice. Yeah, well, being nice is a virtue. It is not, however, a Wiccan Tenet. You're thinking of "Love Thy Neighbor". You know you sound a lot like a "Fluffy Bunny". Ever think of "And it harm none, do what ye will" Well you've already harmed.....hm...why don't you people shut up or start burning the REAL Wiccans and Pagans. "Well, why don't you tell us about Traditional Wicca? You're a seeker. Try seeking." -"One who cannot show patience, one who cannot show virtue, one who cannot show the great meaning of life, is no one at all." Buddhist Proverb. "You're wimps, hiding behind a veil of anonymity. Yeah, well, lucky for us that is a Wiccan Tenet. It's not important who says this, or who starts the campaign. Only that is said" You've said nothing, only that your heart and mind are as closed and locked behind a steal door. You call yourself a Wiccan, yet you have shown nothing that suggest it, only that you are ignorant. And don't tell me I am Fluffy Bunny. I am a fourth Degree Priestess, and have been in the Craft my entire life. Seventh Generation Witch thank you very mu h. All you guys managed to do was make complete fools of yourselves and give me a horrid head ache. Many of us in the world are working for Religious Tolerance, and we are trying to teach the world we are not evil. How dare you turn around and slap that drea in the face. You have just put a very bad mark on us, so thank you for your humiliation. :( Danu SilverStar

Jeri - 06/02/00 19:25:05
My Email:kit1484@hotmail.com

Comments:
I am totally for the whole old tradition thing but really it isnt fair to be so horrid to the people that arent practicing trad. wicca or witchcraft. They are ill informed but eventually they will learn. Also it isnt fair that you have to be so rude to th m. I could care less what others do, religion is what you make it. I studied hard for 2 years before becoming wiccan and I have absolutly no problem with the people who want to be wiccan but know little about it. Its not a big deal. Let people do what the want, they arent harming you. Again, I'm all for bringing back tradition but for different reasons then yours. Please don't put others down for something they dont understand.

Rev Xina - 06/01/00 13:49:13
My URL:http://www.netins.net/showcase/ankh
My Email:xina@netins.net

Comments:
First of all THANK YOU for this site. In all honesty, I am no longer Wiccan. It is no longer my religion and I have moved on to a different Path in my life, I must comment, however while I was in the Craft, I was part of a very Traditional group. It was entirely disheartening to see how chea ly someone could claim to be a Witch (capital W) rather than putting forth the necessary discipline in order to be able to claim that title, which is for all intents and purposes one that SHOULD be earned!! I posted this to Usenet a few years ago. I'm posting it here to remind folks of some basic facts AND poke fun at the bunnies who have no right to claim to be Witches. Subject: How Large is YOUR Pentagram!? From: Xina Date: 1996/09/29 Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca E. L. Hamm wrote: >> >> Is it just me, or is it sometimes difficult to take a lot of people who claim they're Wiccan seriously? There are many different brands of Wiccans. You have what I like to call your 'Prop-Wiccans", in other words they have lots of pretty toys and props, the latest super duper magickally charged Wand by Madame Zenobia, Witch-Witch Queen (a fictious example) and every single Llewllyn book they can afford (or their charge card limit will bear) and lots of black clothing, or floaty Stevie-Nicks type dreses with some SCA type medieval stuff thrown in for dramatic effect. They usually sport lots of bad jewelry and large pentagrams in order to cream at the world (if they dont actually do so in a verbal way) "I AM A WITCH!!!" (or Wiccan if they can't stomach the aforementioned "W" word. Armchair Wiccans - The ones that are very much like the above, have read every thing they can get their hands on the subject by Scott Cunningham, >Sivler Ravenwolf and can quote same backwards and forwards. They can tell you exactly what goes on in Ritual, they have read Raymond Buckland's complete Guide to Witchcraft and therefore have CONVINCED themselves that indeed they know as much as any Thi d Degree Witch. BUT (important but) They have never done an acutal full blown ritual with others outside of that they have done in their minds or on IRC (Internet Relay Chat). They too sport very large pentagrams, and are more than happy to share all they know on the subject with very little experience to back it up. They can tell you all about being in Nature and in harmony with the Earth and all humanity and are not the least bit ashamed to Christian or Satanist bash at the drop f a conical hat. ***DISCLAIMER!!!**** These definitions are for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!!! If you have the sad misfortune of falling into one or more of these catagories it is not the fault of THIS author or the relgion of Witchcraft! Lets see...then there is the: 'I JUST SAW THE CRAFT!' or the 'Adolescent Teenage Witch Wannabi Set' - They are still searching for an identity but by jove they only know that they DON'T want to be like thier parents! And therefore they decide to explore Wicca because of its "shock v lue". This is fine until they after viewing the Craft, feel the need to a) Sport the LARGEST pentagram they can find so that they can be "seen" at school. This piece is usually the size of a mercedes Benz hood ornament or a manhole cover! And b) they c n be very much like the latter two catagoreies, BUT they don't have the necessary experience to back it up, so they often resort to bamboozlement by b.s. and have decided they need to find that coven at the earliest opportunity, and if not will start one with their friends (ooh!! just like in the MOVIE!) These young 'Wiccans' will oftentimes buy a tarot deck, and lurk in study hall with their friends >telling each other's fortunes. Never mind that they havent a clue as to the meanings of the cards. They saw the Craft, and Live and Let Die (Jane Seymour as Solitaire) and they can pretty much wing it from there. Usually readings involve popularity, boys etc. (again, just like the movie!. Alot of potential rests in these, **IF** knowlegable Craft Elders (key caveat here) can get to them in time so they dont sour by interacting with the more flaky of Wiccan Representatives, usually found in the aforementioned groups. Shock Tactics and a flair for drama involving image candles is something I have observed from this crowd more often than I car to elaborate on. These folks can all "Claim" anything that they like, however being a Witch means being able to say with complete honesty: "I LIVE My Religion 24 Hours A Day" These are the ones that may have started as the first three catagories, but by the grace of the God/dess trusted that when the time was right the right opportunities and right books and right people would appear. These are the ones who sport a far smaller pentagram, have interacted with enough Craft members of various Traditions and have either been dedicated and to the Religion for more than a few years and have either been actually Intiated, or are well situated enough to know precise y what they beleive. No props are necessary, no scare or shock tactics to advertise to the world just "what" they are. YOu have to look very close at these folks to differentiate them from the rest of the world, because they live their faith 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Its not just a bizzare costume or a title to wear its a way of life. >> I don't know how to explain it -- it just feels like claiming to be >> Wiccan is a fad right now, and there's not a lot who are seriously >> interested in learning and finding out more. The key is to take responsibility for yourself and to live the religion. Do you want to just LOOK like a Witch and impress your friends and society or do you hold it as something deeper? Its a long process filled with hardship and DISCIPLINE. It's not just watching a movie and what you wear, its how you conduct yourself. The above was an exercise in 'mirth and reverence'. Frankly, people are at where they are at. The ones who only play at Wicca or Witchcraft or even Paganism ultimately have a way of weeding themselves out. I have to admit to have at one time in my life een in every single one of those catagories above, so if you think Im just poking fun and WIccan bashing, think again. I can look back at it now and say "thats where I was", now this is where I am" . I was in the last catagory, but it took several years and alot of hard lessons to get there. Each one of us has similar stories....or if you dont yet, you will. Rev. Xina "The longer one has been in the Craft, the smaller one's pentacle needs to be." -an Alexandrian High Priest

Rob.ADAMS - 06/01/00 04:12:42
My URL:http:// N/A
My Email:pagan_lurch@yahoo.co.uk

Comments:
RE:The fluffy-bunny site. Hello,my name is ROB ADAMS and I'm an "Eclectic Neo-Pagan" I don't limit myself to "Wiccan"or any other "Tradition".I do havesome concerns with some philosophies eg.Celtic Tradition>MY challenge with understanding this is due to the situation,as far as I'm aware
Silver_Emania - 05/30/00 05:12:39
My Email:silver_emania@hotmail.com

Comments:
I'm stuck in the middle here...I think it's craziness that all these teenagers are running around calling themselves wiccans, but I also think that you can bring to religion anything you need to in order to make it real for you. I'm an ole softy...though sometimes a bitch. I just don't have time for people who don't know who or what they are.

Kaite - 05/29/00 17:49:32
My Email:Mizrahfly@aol.com

Comments:
Two words: THANK YOU! I think it is actually upsetting to see sugar-coated teenagers bopping around with the new "Teen Witch" book. I'd have to admit that I was a bit turned-off by Wicca for a while due to fluffy new agers, but this website has let me k ow that the Old Ways are infact, still the Old Way! KEEP IT UP!!!!!

Nikki Perry - 05/25/00 13:25:14
My Email:SilverCrab@excite.com

Comments:
First off... I don't understand what your getting at. Not to harrass you or something... but, when were the Goddess and God only for the minority of people? I was always taught that people must come to divinity in their own way. I'm an ecclectic simply be ause I'm too shy to find groups of people. And that stems from years of abuse by the system. I have heard that the only reason Wicca was a behind the sceens belief was because of society. Much more... An harm ye none.. do as ye will. Your campaign "agains " other peoples feelings about divinity seems to be aimed at harming people more so than sharing your oppinion. I don't beleve that if you pick up one book your a Witch. But I also beleive that if we become to afraid to question the way we do things.. we' l become more like conservitive Christians... It look me 5 years to come to Wicca after studying the books, the people, the groups the internet sites.. and finally, my own soul. I'e found Wicca the way that feels RIGHT to me. I always thought that pagans accepted that there are many right ways to "God". Why would you feel that it's important to you to be the "only one true" path. Perhaps you should attempt to follow the Rede more closely and attempt to to be rude to your fellow human beings. Perhaps, if you want to be taken more seriously, you should provide a more extensive page with more information and less "bashing" I could find little on your page to back up what you felt...< r>
Rob Oam - 05/21/00 12:55:27
My URL:http://www.paganvillages.com/Goddess/koren/

Comments:
Ya know I've been a student and priest of Wicca for a long time now. I can remember when Starhawk came out with her first book and all the uproar it caused. Anyway. when someone comes to me and says I've been studying and practicing the Craft for 13 years I tend to have certain expectations of what they are capable of, like maybe the ability to call a quarter, cast a circle and simple things like that. It really pisses me off when stupid people read a book and suddendly decide that they have been doing th s all thier lives and they are a "natural" witch. Start wearing pentagrams, put bumper stickers on thier cars, and loudly declare to anyone that will listen how much they love thier path. Ever noticed these are the same ones who are always bashing Christi nity? The paths are so different I don't see the point, unless it's to make them feel better about themselves by putting others down. The Whole pagan movement is turning into white lights and bubbles. So many people are working towards making it 'socially acceptable" removing god/dess names so as not to offend, watering down the rituals and elminiating worship of the Horned God altogeth r. Damn Feminists. They found thier inner power. That's great but why do they have to be so negative towards men in the Craft? Seems to me the only way to head into the future is to quit focusing on the past.

Lisa Johnson - 05/18/00 02:48:57

Comments:
I have been practicing since before "The Craft" came out, and I don't consider myself "fluffy bunny" (my favorite authors are the Farrars, Starhawk, and Phyllis Currott)... but I do consider myself "Eclectic," because I don't follow any specific tradition and I'm a solitary. I'm not offended by your site. I think I have known "fluffy bunnies" before... back when I was in high school. Are they the ones who carry around Wicca books wherever they go, wear the biggest, gaudiest, cheap pewter pentacle that they could find at the mall EVERY day, and like to flau t that they are "Witches" to be popular and to frighten the people they hate? If so, then I've known "fluffy bunnies"... oh, have I ever! For some reason, they were always afraid of me. Innocent little me. Normal, unnassuming-looking me. Only-the-best-sterling-silver-pentacle-wearing me (usually inside the shirt). Hardly-ever-carried-around-Wicca-books me. They were jerks to my best friend, and from that point on, all I had to do was look at them, and they'd run off. My friend told me that they thought I was really 'powerful,' or something like that. I laughed, got a kick out of it, but I have no idea what gave them that idea. I just don't k ow... they were stupid. Anyway... enough of the story-telling. Although I don't particularly enjoy the company of "fluffy bunnies," I presume that those who are truly interested in the craft will wise-up with time, and those who aren't will abandon it, and we will be rid of them I don't think that there's any way to ever truly be rid of all the "fluffy bunnies" once and for all, unless we start actually training under-18s (rather than letting them read books on their own), which I DO NOT think will happen anytime soon. Ah, well... nice page.

Shekinah - 05/08/00 16:42:07
My URL:http://www.pmlundmark.com
My Email:mk@pmlundmark.com

Comments:
I like this site, and I largely agree with it. Now, I don't stand in judgement of anything that anyone finds meaningful in their own spirituality -- we each have our own path, and we must follow our own hearts. However, the Craft has been diluted to the point that those of us who practice traditionally don't even recognize much of what others call "the Craft." I guess my problem isn't with what others are doing, just with what they are *calling* what they are d ing. If a Muslim decided that they only liked bits and pieces of the Koran, and wanted to follow the Aztec god Quetzequotl instead of worhipping Allah, supplemented their practice with stuff from Hinduism, New Age ideas, Theosophy, and Taoism, would this still be called Islam? Would any Muslim accept this as Islam, even if this person continued using the word to describe their practice? No way! Well, this is no different. Witchcraft is not a catch-all name for whatever you feel like doing. I'm NOT saying that you can't DO whatever you feel like doing -- go for it!! Just call it your own path, not Witchcraft. Witchcraft is something specific, just as Islam is. Yes, there are some different "denominations," just like in Islam or Christianity, but it is not a free-for-all. There are specific gods, specific practices, specific ethics, specific teachings, and a specific method for transmitting t e mysteries. This is what Witchcraft IS. So, please, do your own thing. Follow your bliss. Find that which fulfills you. Just don't feel the need to say that it is the SAME as my religion, because it isn't. No judgement -- not better, not worse. Just NOT THE SAME. Blessed be, all! Shekinah

- 05/05/00 00:32:45

Comments:
The possibilities for this site are immense,it is good to see that someone is standing up for the Old ways,it is dissapointing that it has degenerated in to a slanging match.

Gwalchmai - 05/03/00 22:48:47
My URL:do not have one yet.
My Email:pelayah@hotmail.com

Comments:
Bravo!Bravo!May you live for ever. I am an "English Gardnerian" living in AL. and a member of a large "pagan" if you can call them that,church. I am bombbarded daily with there ,the fluffy bunnies,attitude of I know everything. and I am sick of it.None of them have had formal training and they ALWAYS want to question MY Craft.What gives? They should wake up and realize that some of us take our Craft serious and don't just "play" witchy when the college kids are around. The number one thing that burns my bu t is that they have the guts to call themselves Witch. What a slap in the face to those of us who have spent years of study and personal development to attain the "RIGHT" to call ourselves a "WITCH". To all the fluffy bunnies in the world,stop tainting th religion of the real"WITCHES".The public is being "VERY" misinformed by you,"THE FLUFFIES",and I am sick of it.How would you,the bunnies,like for us to represent you and your brand of newage crap? A good question isn't it.Stop giving people the idea that we,THE WITCHES and or WICCANS,are a bunch of air headed college kids.

Shelly Murphy - 05/02/00 22:41:57
My Email:shellyandhoot@hotmail.com

Comments:
I'm Wiccan and don't have a web site or would have picked up a banner. KEEP THE OLD WAYS ALIVE!!!! Have been witch 4 ever and Wiccan almost as long. Had to let you know that we are here and fighting in our own way. Do you have another forum that I can peak to without a web site? Feel free to reply to my email address that I have enclosed. Merry Part my hard working friends Shelly

Brenda Mathews - 05/01/00 03:29:26
My Email:sunny__sue@yahoo.com

Comments:
Please remember that before eclectic Wicca came about, there were probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who were searching for the path...whether they knew it or not...and could not find it. I know that for one, I have not been ABLE to find a cov n to teach me. Is it right, then, to deny me the peace of the Goddess? I know the path my life is taking, and it is Wicca. Yet adhering to "traditional" Wicca would exclude me and my hard work. How selfish. How sad for everyone who abides by "An it h rm none, do as ye will." Soon we will have irreconcilable differences like those between Catholicism and Protestantism, and Wicca will be dismissed as just another arguing bunch of misfits.

Milan Audi - 04/20/00 19:19:39
My Email:Psganprincess725@cs.com

Comments:
My! My! My! Such anger! Such hatred! Way to go! Blessed Be to you too! Finally I come across the "David Dukes" and "Hitler's" of the magical realm. I understand your annoyance at those who bounce around catch phrases and call themselves wiccans and dont even attempt to take the time to delve deeper into the craft; but you should have patience and understanding for many of these people are just so overwhelmed at the beauty of the religion after living all their lives in the haze of establishment religion, that they are just trying to attune themselves with their new found spirituality. The ones who are truly not in to it will soon lose interest. So why bother with the uproar and resentment? Have you ever considered that some may have felt the same way about you at one time? We have enough people out there thinking we're devilworshippers and lunatics trying to persecute without us having to fight among ourselves. Don't you have anything more positive to do with you time? It's a learning process for people, so dont be so hard on those trying to spread their wings into paganism. (Because you know very well you can't just take classes at your local community college or go to the neighborhood church) Why not attempt o teach the correct ways instead of being so critical. George Wallace comes to mind he also at one time was very resistant to the changes that were taking place around him, and after many long years he was atleast able to admit he was wrong. Dont spend your time hating those searching for a deeper spirituality, its just plain old bad karma, you know it, I know it we all know it. You have the power to unite and educate instead of divide and create chaos: The choice is yours and so is the karma. Why complain like miserable bast___s about things you can't change? The fact of the matter is things are changing new people new ideas. The world is not flat and so what if you walked 10 miles to school and someones drives; your both getting the same education. THis is a waste of the precious time you have in this carnation and your wasting it instead of learning what your here to learn. (or maybe you were here to learn how to be narrow and critical) What a Waste. Milan Audi

Merl - 04/18/00 00:53:22

Comments:
This comment is to Allura. Allura said:Give me a break... You could not even begin to claim that you have any idea what Traditional Wicca is. No one in this era can. Are you for the 1500 century or earlier still? Perhaps you should read up on what Traditioanl is dear - you obviously haven't the slightest clue. To make it easy on you, I've included the current dictionary definition of Traditional. 1 : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) 2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction So, as you see, it doesn't need to be centuries old, it merely needs to be passed down from Elder, to youngster, in an unbroken chain of.

Allurra - 04/14/00 16:56:15

Comments:
Give me a break... You could not even begin to claim that you have any idea what Traditional Wicca is. No one in this era can. Are you for the 1500 century or earlier still. I think not. Things have changed my friend and you need to change with it. No mat er what the path is that gets people to the end of the road, we should be happy that people are starting to open up to our believes, instead of shutting them out like you are!!! Go get your thrills somewhere else and let those that want to learn do so. We her it be Traditional (as you call it, please do even try and go there)or a fainted part of it. It is still a good start and we need to start somewhere. BB

Michael Gates - 04/12/00 17:33:11

Comments:
You should really take a good long look at your own insecurity. If you are spiritually accomplished (in whatever tradition or path), then why do other people's actions rile you so much? What does it matter? Why do the actions of the fluffy bunnies affect ou *so emotionally*? Think about the amount of energy you have put into this site. So much energy has been devoted to expressing insecurity about your own stature and accomplishments.

- 04/06/00 22:55:32

Comments:
You said: "Yeah, well, being nice is a virtue. It is not, however, a Wiccan Tenet. You're thinking of "Love ThyNeighbor"." For a Fundie Pagan you sure are loose with your interpretation of the laws and the rede. Here's a Wiccan Tenet for you: #43 "It hath ever been the Old Law to be convenient to the Brethren and to avoid disputes" or how about: "Soft of eye and light of t uch". But rather than abide by these parts of Rede and Law you would rather cast a harsh eye upon those whom you obviously don't understand simply because they do not relish in the darkness of maggots and decay, as some of Traditional Wicca seem to advocate.

A Canadiant Dedicant - 03/29/00 00:26:59
My URL:http://www.witchvox.com/
My Email:not on your life!

Comments:
Wow. American Craft *really* is different. I have been hearing tales of the internal politics and bickering of the Craft in the States from my elders, but DAMN. I had no idea it was like this . Now, Im only a dedicant in my tradition, so really, I should t be casting stones at anyone. But give me a break. I have a few things I wish to say. 1. All Wiccans are pagans. You cant dance around that fact no matter how you try. 2. There were never any group of people among our ancient ancestors who referred to themselves as wiccans. Wicca is a 20th century term that has been applied to those of us who are following the religion that was made accessible by GBG. 3. No one is trying to tell anyone what path to follow, but to those of you who are so quick to label yourself "witch", and whose library consists only of tomes published by Llewellyn, please understand that the reason youve been getting all of this flack is because the content of many of those books is HIGHLY questionable. 4. One last thing. There is a difference between the words witch,and Witch. To those of you running around with names like Silver Raven Copper Crow Puppy, or whatever, to say you that are a Witch, is to say that you are a Priest/ess. Therefore, when one o you whose sole education is from a book, you would be in effect insulting those of us with a legitimate claim to the title. In other words, this is like proclaiming that you are a Roman Catholic Priest, without having spent years in a seminary. To those f you calling yourselves witch, all that means is that you have chosen to follow a religions and lifestyle path that honours the earth, the gods and or course, practice magic on one level or another. thats all folks.

Jarnawulf Wodensson - 03/22/00 01:55:05
My URL:http://angelfire.com/ab2/seithr
My Email:lordofthespear@aol.com

Comments:
Hail! I haven't seen anything traditional in the whole wiccan scene, including this webpage. The word wicca is an Anglo Saxon word that means "male witch", wicce is "female witch". Also, it is mispronounced all the time, it is pronounced witch-ah an witch-uh. his very word describes a culture and a specific people, which is why I am perplexed to hear the term "Celtic Wicca". The anceint people that called themselves wiccans(not gardenarian wicca, but pre-christian Vanir worship)were ANGLO SAXON! Anyway, I am n t stuck up and those who want to learn more about this are more than welcome to check out my webpage and email me for more information. Also, if you send a dollar to the following organizations they will send you a catalogue of serious, hard hitting infor ation (Runa Raven has some stuff on the LHP, not satanism but the dark side of germanic magic).For you fluff bunnies, this information might be too hard on you and may traumatize your little brains, as for the serioius seekers....you came to the right pla e. Theod Catalogue: $1 Order from Theod P.O. BOX 8062 Watertown, NY 13601 Runa Raven Catalogue $1 Runa Raven P.O. BOX:557 Smithville, TX 78957 In the Name of Woden, Great Heroes, and Myself, Jarnawulf Wodensson

Tharese - 03/20/00 22:51:58
My URL:http://members.aol.com/tharese/index2.html
My Email:Tharese@aol.com

Comments:
You are absolutely right ! But we also shouldn't forget the true "seekers" that truly want to learn Wicca. Everyone was a fluff bunny in the beginning, else how would they have learned in the first place. hmmmm...food for thought I hope. Blessings Tharese

Moondragon - 03/20/00 15:21:27
My Email:Moondrgn75@aol.com

Comments:
Such humor! I love the site! It's the kind of sarcastic stuff I would come up with. But there is a lot to be said about "Fluffy-Bunnies" that I agree with. I am a dedicated witch, come from a long line of mystics, and it burns me to no end when people write me and say "I'm 13, I think I'm a witch...and by the way my parents hate it." I think a lot of America's youth has glamorized Wicca and use it because it's "cool" and yes, pick up a book, get a few candles and *poof* think they're a witch. I am wi ling to teach, to educate, to even take students, but I refuse those who do it for the wrong reasons. I firmly believe Wicca has the largest group of "posers" (for lack of a better term) out there. As much as we try and educate, the group keeps growing, because people don't want to believe that they can't use Witchcraft to get whatever they want. It saddens me.

Caliana Moonstone - 03/17/00 00:17:36
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/caliamoonstone
My Email:caliamoonstone@yahoo.com

Comments:
While I admire you attempt to remove the fluff bunnies from Wicca, and there are a lot of them. I do remind you simply that Wicca and interest in it are growing far to fast for everyone who is interested to join a coven. In addition those of us who do w nt to join covens have a horrible time trying to find someone willing to take students. There are just to many seekers and they are overwhelming the coven system. I have been a practicing solitary for 7 years and I have been searching for coven training for 5 years of that time. During that I have actively searched for traditional wiccans via the internet, put up adds, been active in the local pagan community, visited festivals and open circles (even run some), and even worked Magick and prayed for assi tance in finding a teacher. The closest I have come in an in depth online course on the Greencraft Tradition provided by the church I ran open circles for in a military setting. It is a great oppurtunity but it isn't the same as joining a coven. Unfort nately for all of us on the outside Traditional Wicca might as well not exist, thus the books both by Solitaries and Traditionalists are the only access we have to Wiccan elders. I personally like Scott Cunningham, he certainly doesn't teach Traditional icca, but he provides fodder for those just starting out. He and other authors allow seekers to decide whether Wicca is right for them before going to a coven and asking for training ( assuming they can find one). They start people down the path to lear ing and while those books do leave alot out and encourage fluff bunny paganism, they really don't do any harm. I believe that most people who are fluff bunny pagans quickly lose interest and move on, they never have a deep understanding of the tenents of belief. While I have not had traditional training I have learned as much as I could from all different sources, and I believe that the God and Goddess can be excellent teachers. I wish you all well and hope you anger at fluff bunnies doesn't cause you h rm. I do try and help seekers as much as I can, and I often wish that traditional wiccans would act the same, for I really do wish I had the formal training that I feel lacking in my beliefs. But to simply attack the problem instead of trying to solve i , doesn't change anything. Love and Light Caliana

Caleb - 03/16/00 05:21:13

Comments:
Wow. Every one knows so much. I've been seeking for a quarter of a century ... All I learned was that there's always someone more clever than yourself.

ljdarten - 03/06/00 15:56:29
My Email:ljdarten@hotmail.com

Comments:

Iarwain - 03/05/00 14:28:46
My URL:http://iarwian.mortis.org
My Email:iarwain@hotmail.com

Comments:
ROCK ON! Iarwian ...still *seeking* after 10 years...

Arwen Evenstar - 02/29/00 14:55:59
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/co2/evenstar/

Comments:
Based on the few rants that I have read, I get the impression that a lot of people read through this site completely...and, yet, completely missed the point. If you are a non-Wiccan witch, this site is obviously not talking about you. If you have s ent years seeking and learning about Wiccan practices, this site is obviously not talking about you. If your practice has taken many years to develop and much hard work and discipline, this site is obviously not talking about you.

If, however, you have read two books on Wicca by Scott Cunningham or Silver RavenWolf (or some other "respected Wiccan author") without bothering to study the history of Wicca or its traditions, this site is probably refering to you. If, after reading the e two books, you suddenly declared yourself High Priest/ess, this site is probably talking about you. If you've been studying for all of two whole years and think that the beginner need look no further than you for an authority on Wicca, this site is prob bly talking about you. And if you are ever heard saying things like, "May the Morrigan find you at rest..." Well, you know...;)

I'm not Wiccan myself, but I respect tradition enough to have learned about Traditional Wicca when I was just beginning. It is very different from the sickeningly sweet, "hopping through the pretty fields" self-help program that the fluff bunnies make it ut to be. If you do not make Wicca out to be like that, then, by definition, you are not a "fluff bunny."

Lastly, if you are not indeed a fluff bunny, this site is not talking about you. But perhaps it is I who have missed the point. Maybe this site is about me. At least I know there are people out there still thinking for themselves and still t ying to protect their own traditions from turning into fads.

un lapin - 02/20/00 06:10:09

Comments:
lapin means bunny by the way. There are a greater amount of religions in this world than there are languages. What you say you believe in matters only to you. Sometimes I admire an atheist more than admire the most devoted "believer" in the world. I have ound everything I want in logic and science, but then there is something lef that I can't explain. The reason why half the time you don't get negative comments is because people are too tired of this constant fight for who is who. You are the kind of peop e that discourage anyone to believe in anything anymore. If you say you don't care why do this at all? This is so exhausting, so pityful, so sad. Every religion is the same...I was wrong. You are all the same.

- 02/19/00 00:16:44

Comments:

NonTraditional Witch - 02/17/00 14:02:33

Comments:
While I appreciate the need to bring honor to the title of priest, priestess, and elder in our community, I think you're missing the point. There is NO SUCH thing as "traditional" Wicca, because there is more than one tradition and more than one view of m gick (in fact that is among the fundamental commonalities of our beliefs). Saying "traditional wicca" begins to sound like "funamental christianity" -- don't go there! If you have a vision-driven belief system that transforms with a person and the earth, ou cannot have carved in stone dogma. And while you might have your problems with Mr. Cunningham's somewhat recreationist history/lore, his books made magick user friendly to a lot of people who would otherwise still be scared stiff of the word witch. So ry balance instead of bashing.

noblesavage - 02/17/00 03:02:21
My Email:noblesavage54@hotmail.com

Comments:
hmmm...first, let's define "traditional". wiccan tradition is only tracable to about 1939 or so-about the time Gardner 1)made it up or 2) synthesized pre-existing fragments of folk tradition that he claimed to have received with elements of ritual magicka traditions (golden dawn, freemasonry, oto, etc, so, i'm unclear on just how you-all apply the word 'traditional' to wicca. do you mean as first worked by mr. gardner, or traditional in the sense of "been around so long nobody knows who made it up and we till do it this way" anyway, inmho, it's irrevelant whether it is "traditional" or not--i believe that human creativity existing here and now has more to recommend it that a "tradition" that appears to me to be based more on fancy than fact. it seems to me that contemporary w cca, paganism, etc. needs to separate fact from fancy, real from imagined, myth from reality--better, imo, to manifest a tradition based on fact no matter how scant. i mean, such an important thing as religion should be based on reality one can verify, no in case anyone is wondering, no, i am not wiccan, pagan, or anything else. i am athiest and myth and religion are a fascination of mine. i have many wicco-pagan friends and they are a constant source of spirited and enlighting debate and creativity which admire very much. they also throw *REALLY HAPPENIN'*parties. i welcome conversation and friendly debate. flames will be shot on sight.

Syleniel - 13 Year Solitaire - 02/14/00 23:10:55
My Email:hehehehehe

Comments:
Traditional Wicca vs. fluffybunnies. How... polar. It's ironic, this page reminds me of the different factions of Judaism, each of whom thinks that the others aren't "real Jews". Reminds me of one reason why I left Judaism. BTW, couldn't read your views on Cunningham. There's a bit of link rot what needs looking into. I'd been solitary for 13 years, before finding a circle. It wasn't for lack of looking or praying. Over and over I asked the Lady to send me a teacher. She kept telling me "Look within". Funny, I took that Charge seriously. "That which you cannot find wit in you, you will not find without you". The Lady guided me on my Path. You don't like it, you know where the derrier is. Fluffy? Not I. I even started out with Scott Cunningham's "Wicca for the Solitary Practioner". I read other books as well, I have this silly thing about having a well-rounded education. I despise the people who read one book and proclaim themselves exper s as much as you probably do. I learned about the dark along with the light, destruction along with creation. Balance, it comes down to balance. Balance ... and free will. Just as there are the "serious" ones (by whatever defintion) so will there be the fluffy ones. No,you don't have to like it, but all the campaigning in the world won't stop the bunnies from breeding. And not all who deviate from your One True Path are fluffy, kids. You want your religion back? Live it, and you stand for what you believe the religion should be. Complain, and waste your energies on a universe that keeps on spinning. I am a Witch, although not necessarily Wiccan. If you don't like it, that's your peroggative but don't expect it to make me stop in my tracks on my Path to please you. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. BB

- 02/14/00 08:29:20

Comments:
whatever!

Rev. Lady Rhiannon Wolf, HPS - 02/14/00 07:33:28
My Email:wolf755@hotmail.com

Comments:
I'm an Eclectic, HPS of a coven. I put in 14 years studying, got ordained, workd with many Paths, including a few Trads. Wicca/Witchcraft has enough of a struggle to get accepted without our own community turning upon itself. Not all people are going to walk the same path, and the "holier than thou" attitude has no place in my coven. Why should we accept it from the community at large? Just yesterday someone posted sites to visit that were anti-Witch. They were put up by fundamentalist Xtians. Now I see anti-Wiccan sites put up by Trads. This is just too sad for words. Elitist is right, but you took the word right out of your own mouth. Wolf

- 02/13/00 21:13:19

Comments:
I have worked very hard to achieve what knowledge I possess. I went through many stages (fluffy bunny among them). It was all a part of my education. Some of it was alone, and some of it was with an estimed teacher. I am self-initiated and made a witch by a witch. By work, desire and sheer stubborness, I made it through. Sometimes, all I had was Barnes and Noble and Waldenbooks. The path was not always populated by like-minded, altruistic teachers. I earnestly believe that "bunnydom" as a state of mind is personal choice and that within the Tao there is a place for all: fluffy bunnies and traditionalist prudes. I would rather flow and let the Goddess shake out the chaff. After all, if a bunny chooses to play with the big witches, so be it......heheheh

MorningMoon - 02/12/00 09:04:07
My URL:http://wicca.drak.net/morningmoon/
My Email:morningmoon@post.com

Comments:
The existence of that page has given me cause to look inside myself and see how much is "fluffy bunny" and how much is "traditional". I decided to attempt a fair balance between both for two reasons. The first being that my unwillingness to "follow the eader" is what drew me to Wicca in the first place, which also prevents me from being strictly traditional. The second being that I value the teachings and wisdom of those who have gone before me, whether I agree with them or not, which prevents me from eing purely fluffy bunny. Most of all, I'd like to say that reading through these posts has been wildly entertaining.

Aariadne - 02/11/00 21:49:09
My Email:Aariadne@cffn.zzn.com

Comments:
I agree with the main points, but I don't know why you waste so much vitriol on poor Scott. Jeez, show some respect for the dead, already! Why not deicate all your rants against Silver and her sacred flaming McWicca broomsticks in a plastic cauldron? Lo e the humour, love the snottiness, love the maliciously funny stabs at everything. And PS, I'm a Solitary Practitioner, and I steal little bits ov every religion. So blow me if you can't take diversity. :D

James S. Berry - 02/11/00 07:04:29
My URL:http://www.darksites.com/souls/pagan/abiegnus
My Email:james@god.knotwork.com

Comments:
Listen up bunnies! Damn, you cottontails are everywhere aren't you? I got into the Gardnerian trad because I thought it to be the oldest, best and unfluffiest. Wrong! Although my lineage is certainly unfluffy (put yer BACK into that scourge, guys!) I find that many Gardies (no names, tempting as that is) are so damn fluffy they leave tufts of fur on all the damn trees they hug. Now, I gotta say, this is a serious magickal path here people! Not a damn social club for all the little whiners who want to be all cool and 'in' with their crappy little pentacles and taped episodes of 'Charmed' while they worship Christ in a freakin dre s. Development is spurred on pain, physical, emotional and spiritual, not by saving the friggin whales. The scourge smacks ya hard, Bugs, and it does so for the same reason that your cutesy little athame burned in the freakin forge, or is that too arcane f a refernce for ya? There's a bloody good reason why so many mystics have buggered off by themselves (Christ did, so did Siddartha--that's Buddha, ingrates-,so did Mohammed). Even way back then, there were fluffy friggin bunnies lke you people. You know who you are. When peo le are climbing your forehead to ski because they like low slopes, take a hint. the secret is to rub the sticks together. Or do you light your Beltane fires with Bics? Your spiritual knuckles drag because you ARE drags. The dregs of Witchcraft. And another thing...if I get a single email from one of you Thumpers whining about how your feelings are hurt, there'll be hell to pay. Hurt feelings my priapic wand. You want hurt? Get initiated by a REAL priestess who'll flay the skin right off your ten er little backside with her almighty scourge...but then again you'd miss the point wouldn't ya? And I suppose you already have, assuming you've read THIS far. You know the Tower card in that cute little tarot deck you bought behind mommy and daddy's backs? The one you snuck around to get so you could feel mysterious and clandestine? It represents the destruction of your freakin ego so that the Higher Self could shine through. And that's the point of the Craft. Is that terminology lost on ya? It's not just a pretty picture, assuming yu've gotten past the nice cute Empress card. And what the hell is up with your wannabe craft names??? If I have to meet one more 'Raven Moonchild' or 'Silver wolf' or 'Dragon' online I'm gonna puke! Names like that died with the first gen tree huggers in the 60s. A craft name is supposed to represen (get out your dictionaries) the ultimate and highest aspirations of your higher self, the True Will of your Neschamah (although Kabbalah is lost on you too isn't it? You can't hug the Tree of Life so it doesn't count, eh?) Godsdamn...you're the same people who clutch your Starhawk books to your chests and can recite Cunningham cover to cover but I have conversations about the craft with ya and never hear the words 'Circle, Goddess, scourge, athame, ritual, Horned god, Samha n (and it's 'SOW-en' monkeys)' or a million other integral words pass your evian-soaked tofu-eating 'the goddess is all sweet and light'speaking lips. Ever hear of Kali, Erishkigal ot Nyx? DARK NASTY GODDESSES. Ooops, I forgot....your education on mytholo y comes from Xena: Warrior Princess. Sorry. And that's it for now. next time one of you wabbits gets mooneyes at the latest Ravenwolf book, I'll be there to kick you in the Muladhara chakra. Get it?

Desire - 02/05/00 07:07:06
My Email:can_d_gurl@hotmail.com

Comments:
hi shane, this is a really good site congrats! my name is Desire Aguilera, im 18 and im madly in love with blink but no one person in particuar i luv em all! well gotta go! Much luv: DesriE p.s. just if n e ones wordering YES i am related to christina, im her cousine.

Reathmyr - 01/30/00 07:38:05
My URL:http://users.drak.net/lhiannon/religion.html
My Email:Inkogneto@hotmail.com

Comments:
The URL I posted is NOT mine...it is the original author's URL however (had you been clever you would have found that yourself). It expains this website (of which I partially agree with, but that is neither here nor there) and why it was created. I sugg st reading it before posting a rant, or before posting the ribbon to your webpage for it may not mean what you think it does. As much as Scott Cunningham over eclesticized Wicca, this site has done a grave inservice in not thouroughly defining "fluffy bu ny" (mostly on purpose). The URL: http://users.drak.net/lhiannon/religion.html will help you out a lot. You're probably wondering why I would post this and try to help anyone out. Well, there are two reasons for this... 1. As the world fills with mindless morons searching for their path in life, so does the internet fill with mindless drivle containing the affore mentioned "fluffy bunnies". 2. Some will take this under their egotistical wing (yeah, I've seen your holier than though web sites refering to this site as your inspiration, didn't read very far did you, now who's the "fluffy bunny"?!?!) and build their one man/woman closer to god/g ddess than you website with it and think that they've just had the last say on any and everything, HA! I laugh in your GENERAL direction! Now...with a smile on my face and the goddess in my heart, I leave here a satisfied person (Gee, the author of this site did have a good idea!!! :)

Lilyth Vofler - 01/28/00 21:29:26
My URL:http://www.crosswinds.net/~vvillage/
My Email:lilyth@skybyrd.net

Comments:
Ok, I sent in a bad email. Let's see if this page is as abandoned as I think it is... Oh.. and Hi Ken... remember me?

Ken Ra, Elder - 01/28/00 00:03:15
My Email:triskellion1@usfamily.net

Comments:
The Idea that Wiccans and pagans are NOT the same is true now. Back in 1968 when I entered the craft Witch Wiccan Pagan all ment the same thing US. Modern paganism is directly derived from Wicca by way of Gerald Gardener. Most of the changes have been in droping parts that someone didn't like: the ballance of male and female, religion, covens, Spell casting, and the name "Witch" itself ( you didnt think that Druids sprouted from thin air did you. ) There is a distinct frission between logical reasoning, s t theory and historical development. Many new people have no idea of the debt that they owe Wicca and are too concieted to acknoledge any debt or any respect to anyone. Many Old Hands are still back in the 70's and too concieted to look at a future that h s gone beyond them (ie. 1970 witchcraft) Unfortunately Bunnys outnumber respectable and concieted Old Hands 100 to 1.

- 01/25/00 17:43:34

Comments:
BB, y'all. I agree with you completely. It took me a real long time to become a HPS, over a decade! I am really tired of people who aren't even dedicated calling themselves "Lady" or "Lord" so and so. People think you're being elitist bringing up this iss e? Pretty funny-- but it may be more sad for the Craft if someone didn't bring this up. Thanks and BB.

Sunwyn - 01/22/00 00:04:08
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/sunwyn.geo
My Email:sunwyn@hotmail.com

Comments:
I was trained traditionally and, though no longer Wiccan, I believe it is the best way to learn. Nothing can replace tradition and hands on teaching. I have included your ribbon on my Wicca links page. For the most part, I recieved positive feedback thoug I have had a couple of hate mails over it.

Lhiannon (yes, again) - 01/15/00 20:17:52
My URL:http://users.drak.net/lhiannon/religion.html
My Email:lhiannon@drak.net

Comments:
Yikes. For those who have come in and are *not* Wiccan, don't consider themselves Wiccan, never called themselves Wiccan - please don't assume those writing this or agreeing with this are talking about the whole of pagandom, myself included. This web site is not about Paganism or Neo-Pagans. This site is not about Pagans. Pagan and Wiccan are *not* interchangable, although they are symbiotic in nature.

Vero - 01/14/00 02:19:22
My URL:http://matrix.crosswinds.net/~theloop/people/vero/
My Email:pixyvero@yahoo.com

Comments:
I found this site interesting, especially the varied opinions among those who posted. Myself, I studied wicca and paganism for 3 years, went through a disenchantment with all religion, thought extensively about the divine, and I find myself again studyin paganism. In many ways, I agree with the statement about Fluffy Bunny wiccans. I have known a few personally, those who want the shock value of the religion, but care nothing for its deeper value. I also find myself in agreement with the argument that higher training is not always available for those who wish to go deeper. I'm not really sure where I'm going with all of this, except to implore everyone not to judge on these critia. Beginners need to recognize the experience and knowledge of the tradi ions and traditionals need to recognize that many solitaries and non-trads also have valuable knowledge and experience. If anyone feels the need to respond to this, please email me.

Jennifer - 01/11/00 23:44:13
My Email:jlkst100=@pitt.edu

Comments:
I am relieved to see that other people are angry at the fluffy bunnies for destroying the reputation of the real tradition. What is up with all these people who claim to be witches and then write books called "Teen Witch" and "Love Spells." I think that t is is dangerous. The craft should be respected, and the bunnies obviously don't. Please keep up the good work by spreading the message! Thank you!

Debbie - 01/11/00 21:35:56

Comments:
Ouch, that page was painful to read! I thought I escaped such name calling and cliquish mentality when I left the confines of organized religion...but alas, we are dealing with human beings. I guess being Pagan doesn't automatically make people open-min ed (my horrendous assumption). The same need for labels, titles, and recognition exists within all of human nature. A Disillusioned Eclectic, Neo-Pagan (for those who need to see my title).

Chiron Skyseer - 01/10/00 04:31:48
My Email:shrike@ptd.net

Comments:
Cute site, lots of tongue in cheek humor. I know I shouldn't be responding, but I figure you're baiting people to rant, so who am I to disappoint? I have been a channel operator in a pagan chatroom for over 2 years, and a solitary Eclectic Wiccan for 2, so my credibility is questionable by your standards. I suppose that matters little, these rants aren't read anyway :P I'll just let my words speak for themselves. Personally, I agree, there are far too many of the fabled fluffybunnies out there. This presents a danger to the credibility of the pagan community at large, as it doesn't look too flattering when people do wacko things, and the actions of one idjit tend to reflect more on the image of Wicca than the positive actions of a hundred sincere seekers. It's how the sincere seekers are treated that worries me. If, as you claim, the best fork in the road of Wicca is a traditional one, there is a dilemma presented to the sincere seeker... the sincere seekers out there are, on one hand, frustrated by the l ck of seriousness of the pagan community. I live in central PA, and the problem I see is that the experienced pagans are of questionable ethics and mental stability, or are suffering from a nasty case of delusions of grandeur, thinking that those who are younger or less experienced than they have no right to question their words and actions. On the other hand, there are many solitaires who are sincere but have nowhere to turn for spiritual guidance and instruction. There are no visible covens in the area, and believe me, I have done my homework, any covens in the area are holed up very tight y. Hence, I have one of two choices: 1) I can go their own way, and by your standards, go 'down the wrong path' or 2) I can become bitter about the quality of people out there and swear to never work with other Wiccans, hence isolating myself, and losing out on any good experiences that come from sharing one's spirituality with others in the closeness of a coven. Now, I suppose since it's obligitory, I'll provide the griping. By isolating themselves from ALL newcomers to Wicca, those who belong to the older Trads are condemning these honest seekers to isolation, or 'degeneration' into the very fluffybunniness the are condemning. I.E. By sitting back and hiding and shirking the responsibilities of educating those who are seeking the Lord and Lady, the older Trads are doing Them a great disservice by denying proper education and support. OK, there ya go. My rant is over. I am available on IRC, on Dalnet #wicca as Chiron or Shrike, though I do not expect to encounter anyone there to discuss this with me. I've had it out with other Traditionalists, and to be honest with you, I can not se much good to come from isolationism. Since I am isolated by not living in an urban area and not having any Alexandrian/Gardnerian/whatnot covens open in the area, I have to work my own way alone through the often confusing world of my own spirituality, ith no one else to lend any clarity or a helping hand. So, before you condemn those like me, why not ask yourself: Am I doing my part to bring quality and purity to Wicca by sitting back and laughing at those who struggle, or am I helping them out? Blessings Chiron

Alyce - 01/06/00 16:19:49

Comments:
Crystal makes an excellent point. Could it be that the reason we seemm so inundated with "fluffy bunnies" is that there are scant resources available to go deeper? You say"You're a seeker, try seeking!" While I agree that the mysteries shouldn't be handed out like Halloween candy to anyone who asks,what is truly out there for the serious seeker but books? Not everyone is privileged to live in an area that affords access to a traditional, tight coven.Even if there are covens around, many are difficult to ge into due to their exclusive nature.Wicca is experiencing unprecedented growth, and needs to deal with the growing number of people hungry for the deeper mysteries. Shaming people for acting like "fluffy bunnies" is too easy. How about committing to offer something more substantial to those who are willing to do whatever it takes to learn?I believe that many aren't "fluffy bunnies" out of choice, but out of ignorance and lack of meaningful resources.

Crystal - 01/03/00 21:36:52
My Email:crysjoh@earthlink.net

Comments:
ok, at great threat of massive spamming I put my email address on here for one reason only. if there is anyone out there that is willing to teach me, I am willing to learn and work hard at it. I have a rudimentary knowledge of witchcraft, and have read mo t of the bookstore availabilities. I need more!! I know there are things that I want to learn that cunningham, while a pretty writer, simply didn't touch for me. I have been interested in the craft since the age of 14, but have trully found no one able to teach me. so, the challenge....for all the traditionalists - would you be willing to tutor a solitary who has no intention of currently joining a coven, and probably couldn't if she tried, due to availability in my area. thanks.

Corvyn Wolfe - 01/03/00 12:14:03
My Email:Corvyn@hotmail.com

Comments:
Thank the God's for a site like this...don't get me wrong my first book was "Wicca" by Cunningham however I was drawn to the more Tradition based hard-to-find books on the Craft. Ohhhhh spooky goth kids loveing Marilyn Manson have to call themselves "Wit hes" so they pick up a book and BAM thier a "Witch." Stop with the New Age/Wicca Bullshit! We do NOT attune with crystals, nor do we deny the Dark sides of Nature.

Rowan - 01/03/00 10:35:49

Comments:
First off, let me state for the record that I do not now, nor have I ever considered myself to be Wiccan. I am, however, a Pagan. I approached this site with casual interest through another web-site. I have spent a little time going through the posts on t is page, and am beginning to wonder if the creators of this site haven't received the clue yet that simply by the virtue of the overall tone of said site, they have indeed only managed to contribute to the general problem. After all, An it harm none; do a ye will is YOUR Rede, is it not? But hey, that's just my opinion.

Indigo - 01/02/00 03:54:51
My Email:no_thanks@i_dont_like_being_spammed.com

Comments:
This is directed at: Rev. Barton Boehm - 01/01/00 04:03:26 My URL:http://summerland.magick.nu My Email:Summagick@aol.com ------------------------------------------- On your site you make this statement: "The only "law" that all Witches need recognize is called the Wiccan Rede" It isn't a law dear, it's a simple piece of advice. People like you really do a dis-service to the Craft when you make ignorant comments like that.

Rev. Barton Boehm - 01/01/00 04:03:26
My URL:http://summerland.magick.nu
My Email:Summagick@aol.com

Comments:
Why is it that those who honor tradition called elitist? I honestly believe some come to Wicca because they think they won't have to work at it. I, too, have met many a one-book high priestess or worse, WB witches! They are riddled with jealousy for th se who earned their eldership through hard work. These are the chatroom queens and kings who become insulted when you challenge their knowledge. And why is it assumed that you've said anything to slight the memory of Mr. Cunningham? We know he's earned is respect. I applaud the stand you have made and I have added a banner to my website.

Sylverwynde - 12/28/99 14:15:54
My URL:http://www.bugbear.net/darkpagan/Sylverwynde_page.html
My Email:corsair@lochlomond.net

Comments:
THANK YOU!!! It's LONG PAST TIME that someone spoke up against the FluffyBunny bullcrap!! EAT the darn bunny, don't worship it!

Jonthia - 12/26/99 22:06:19
My Email:Jonthia@cs.com

Comments:
I have read as much as I can get hold of about Wtchcraft/Wicca When I looked up the page for protest by 'FBs' you initiators of this site seemed to be backing off! - apparently you've more or less forgotten about putting it up except when you reieve mail intersting. Far more interesting is the 'Frankenstien' of intelligent thought and response you have released with your elitist and lightweight approach! I have rather avoided the 'Wiccan thing 'because of a dread encountering a lot of soppy posers or sha low extremism which your page seems to epitomose. As a rank outsider but with genuine interest I have to say - why knock Scott Cunningham - he seems to have been a lovely guy with the kindly and intelligent intention of making a beautiful and contemplati e process available to many. OK the books are blatently a 'starter kit' but don't purport to be anything else surely! Also, what, please is so traditional about Gardiner?. I'm 49, so a guy writing in the 1950s is no more mysteriously historical by virtue f establishment than Enid Blyton. However, once again, thank you for your very daft page - it revealed to me a wealth of tolerant and intelligent thought and dedication around the subject and religion of Wicca, I will read and study on knowing that such people are out there with no more ear of soppy new age poseurs! Many thanks J,

Winged Wolf - 12/26/99 08:56:06
My URL:http://members.dencity.com/Winged_Wolf/index.html
My Email:WingdWolf2@aol.com

Comments:
I support you wholeheartedly, actually...this site is hilarious. :) All the fluff-bunny @#$# is a large part of what led me to drift away from Wicca and eventually lose my faith.

Sparrowhawk - 12/25/99 16:11:17
My Email:sparrowhawk@yahoo.com

Comments:
I am so completely surrounded by fluffy bunnies that I am a member of a coven consisting of only two people! At the extreme, one of these people said that they were Wiccan and then had no idea of what I was talking about when I mentioned the Lord and the ady, and were even more clueless when I spoke of circle-casting and the pentacle. People like this create the following situations: My social studies teacher, me, and another Wiccan who is probably a fluffy bunny too got into a discussion because the teacher stated that Wicca was "an obviously negative religion," and that was why our school library included the Bible and none of Silve Ravenwolf's books(I had previously requested from our librarian that she order these). The teacher seemed to think that Wicca consisted of love spells and "spells that manipulated people." I told him that he was way overrating the importance of spells, a d that you could be Wiccan and never have done a spell in your life(I view rituals and spells as completely different..spells set out to accomplish something and rituals are ceremonies held in honor and worship of whatever deity), and he really didn't see too believing. I know this is pointless, but that incident happened recently and I just needed to let off steam.

Linda McLean - 12/23/99 00:22:03
My URL:http://sorry -don't have one
My Email:Garnetkat@hotmail.com

Comments:
Amen Sister! I am so tired of folks reading books and declaring themselves "it". I am equally tired of people who jump all over me when I say we need a trained priesthood. They angrily denounce me and say they don't need an HP or anybody to reach deity. W ll, of course not, but there's a reason the Christians are in control now...not only do they have money, they have organization; they have structure; they have training; they have texts to follow; they have buildings for Goddess sakes! There's no reason w y Wicca can't build temples, write liturgy, and have functional people organizing and offering this religion to the hungry masses. I am so tired of dysfunctional, substance abusing, homeless, jobless, life-less ner do wells calling them selves "pagan" or hatever. Being pagan and specifically Wiccan is a disciplined religion that requires responsibility, doing no harm (and that includes your own addicted deluded self), and regular communion with the God and Goddess according to prescribed forms. It's becau e we are such a fractured bunch of fluff-bunnies that we are discriminated against and have little influence in this country. Gimme ritual structure and practiced magick....Gimme energy workers and true healers...Gimme functional adults who have jobs and ive in houses...and I'll show you a healthy alternative to Christianity that would appeal to millions. What's wrong with having a text (or ten)? What's wrong with having some leadership or a hierarchy? In ancient times the temples were a structured place o come learn the mysteries and you couldn't get in by being a 'wanna-be' who had a dream or just read something. I think, in this country especially, we're too afraid to "dissenfranchise" somebody, so everyone is included...even those who don't know squat These people can be very charismatic and do untold damage to the young and impressionable. I have been in several groups in Colorado and in Virginia and invariably, the most illiterate, exploitative, hung-over old bag was the greatest influence in the gr up. Gag me. I will stay solitary until I can find a group that intends to be involved in true teaching and disciplin with verifiable results required. Lets grow up and be a "real" religion, why don't we.

Phoibos - 12/19/99 04:10:11

Comments:
"routes"? Ow!

Phoibos - 12/19/99 04:07:11
My URL:http://www.uberheim.org/asgard/bragi

Comments:
Simple point: INFORMATION! Wicca & neo-paganism has a history. You can call yourself "Oakthorn" (or whatever) all you like, but if you don't have firmly planted & well nourished routes, we won't be seeing you come May. I call myself "Wiccan" 'cause what I practice I found as a result of studying the history of the English language. As it so happens, I am an intitiate of a "Trad Wiccan" coven, with a very solid "lineage." But this is quite accidental; I wasn't looking fo it. And it's not what I derive my view of myself from, as a Wiccan. I see my self as such due to the HARD STUDYING I PUT INTO MY CRAFT. I spent almost all of the 1980s in another country. I missed the "New Age" explosion. When I came back to the U.S. & saw all this stuff on the bookstore shelves... Well, I was happy & sad at the same time. Happy, 'cause it WAS on the shelves, out in the o en; sad, 'cause - as seems to be the case when anything hits the popular media - the real Craft had been so whitewashed & diluted by newage sentimentalities & the new "Political Corrctness" (which is very discriminatory, and ready to go off on a [shall I ay it?] 'witchhunt' at the slightest hint of impropriety). Well, Yule draws near, & it's time to get back to my work of raising people's consciousness about the plight of the oppressed worker elves at the North Pole... I heard that the Syrian Air Force has orders to shoot down Santa on sight; they'll claim he was delivering weapons to the Christian militias...

Lhiannon - 12/12/99 08:04:44
My URL:http://users.drak.net/lhiannon
My Email:lhiannon@drak.net

Comments:
Yes, I wrote the page and yes, I am the same person that owns DrakNet. And if any of the people that are "dissing" me in this forum had the balls to actually email and ask, you would have been told exactly that as well as pointed to an explaination page a to what's going on with it: http://www.users.drak.net/lhiannon/religion.html Despite the fact that it's been heralded as the great anonymous attack, this page's authors and contributors have always been known, just perhaps not widely. None of us have every denied our contributions to it. So if you care why it was written you can go to the page above - but I do think that it's true, it doesn't matter who wrote it. It demontrates ideas and beliefs that do exist in this community, and ones that are *not* talked about. I am glad that, here, t ey have been.

jason Aberheart - 12/11/99 13:55:58

Comments:
I tend to agree with the views on this web page. We have a hmm what can I call him, other then ignorent. He reads a few books and through the internet he makes hime self a High Priest. I tend to follow Crowely's views on magick this guy tends to mix and m sh every thing he reads and calls it wicca. I cring in side every time the hold there so-called coven. All he see's is some kind of power trip. These are the people that give use pagans a bad name a will start the next generation of fluff bunnies. Jason Aberheart follower of Crowely

Selerim Elyag - 12/09/99 23:40:26

Comments:
Don't Wiccans (Trad or these "Fluffy Bunnies") have enough problems as it is with harrassment from the "King and Queen Catholic Teens" as it is? *tisk tisk* The concept of witches turning against each other for more power and "rightiousness" - that's ho the Roman Catholic Church became corrupted during the Middle Ages in Europe; the followers just wanted to turn to their fellow Catholic follower and say "I'm better than you!" Do Wiccans really want their religion to become just as corrupt?

STUPID ALERT - 11/26/99 21:37:39

Comments:
Lady Arrianon claimed she "is H.Ps., 3rd Gen. Hereditary (for those of you hung up on "traditional background & titles" Girl, those types of titles aren't used in *real* Hereditary Crafts, anyone one telling you differently, picked them up out of one of those cheesy pieces of trash back in the 70's.

Puck - 11/25/99 20:59:02

Comments:
Re: Rae Bone Rae Bone is the Matriarch of the Whitecroft Line. Check with the Beaufort House at http://bronsonwood.webjump.com/BH/ you should be able to track her down by contacting the Webmaster.

Anon Y. Mouse - 11/25/99 04:43:42

Comments:
This isn't really a rant. I am probably one of the most irreligious people you will ever meet. I have read various Wiccan sites and there is frequent mention of a Gardenerian high priestess known as Eleanor Bone, Rae Bone (in one 1964 magazine article h r name was spelled "Ray"). Is she still alive? She is said to have written some books. I have never seen any. I would like to read them. I am posting this in hope that someone, somewhere who reads these lines will have that information and will share it.

Anon Y. Mouse - 11/25/99 04:43:30

Comments:
Sorry, I find it hard to take anyone serious that would refer to a seeker as a High Priest, or a 1st degree as a High Priestess. That's about as inane as the 2 book tart Silver Ravenwolf groupies calling themselves Lady thisorthat after they've got one o two cheesy books under their belts.

Lady Arrianon, H.Ps., 3rd Gen. Hereditary (for those of you hung up on "traditional background & titles" - 11/22/99 17:42:07
My URL:http://www.phoenixlair.com

Comments:
I do argree that Witchcraft is getting very wishy washy with todays younger generation, and some of the older people as well...but let us remember that the term Wicca actually refers to the tradition of Witchcraft started by Gerald Gardener. For others t claim it would be like a Baptist claiming to be a Catholic simply because they are both "Christian". Although I do not agree with the people who come into my shoppe and ask first "Do ya have a spell book I can buy?" (oh,yes dear friends this happens all the time!) The way a person "seeks" the knowledge simply determins how long it will take them to finally make it to "enlightenment" if you will...and how rough the road may be in the process. Life is made up of many lessons, and the best way to show some ne what a true Witch (or Wiccan as the case may be)is all about is to live it! Not fight about it. The other thing I wanted to point out is the fact that although the idea behind this site seems very good, there are very few who can actually claim a her ditary lineage anymore...and that includes a "traditional lineage". There are many who say they were initiated to such and such degree by their friend or brother who is Gardnerian...yes...but did they read a book or did they get their degrees from an Eld r? Then the bottum line is this...Magick and Witchcraft is about nature. It has extremes that occur while striving for a balance. The seeker needs to make this path their own, even if it is a bit shakey or humorous at first...it is theirs. Then later hey may choose to learn specific ceremonies, rituals and oaths. That is their choice. But either way...stop pulling the community apart by saying One is better than the other. Many a dabbler went on to grow up, and eventually learn through Karma that M gick takes work and study and time...it is not just the title, or a book...study, study, study. And stop fighting lest the Goddess send us all to the corner via an ice age or something.

- 11/19/99 15:08:11

Comments:
While I do agree with the opinion expressed on this page, I seem to remember a Trad. Wiccan thingy about: To know, to will, to dare and TO BE SILENT!!! Your not doing a very good job with the "to be silent" part, are you? How non-traditional of you.

KrasH - 11/15/99 06:50:00
My URL:http://users.drak.net/krash
My Email:krash@drakmail.net

Comments:
Oh..I get it Crafties - Fluffy Bunnies. The kids that hang in my way at Borders when I'm trying to get a new book to read. The ones who think they can buy a "Spell Book" and be a Witch. That part of the frustration I understand, but if you want a "Tradi ional" setting just join a well established Coven. If not just be a solitary....and life goes on.

Lynn Carstein - 11/13/99 04:45:39
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/paganpractice
My Email:flasux@hotmail.com

Comments:
The fact that so many are arguing over what is right and what is wrong bothers me. I understand the need to set straight the wannabes and such, but what I do not understand and probably never will, is why one could be accused of being a fluff bunny becau e he or she does not follow TRADITIONAL Wicca. I think the site is great and I think the purpose is admirable, but there is a fine line drawn when you start dividing people into what you believe to be "the real thing" or "not the real thing." I agree wi h what Grey Cat said--"Living religions change and grow" (or something close to it) and I also think that everyone has a right to believe what they choose. It is not anyone's right to decide if someone's claim to religious thought is right or wrong. We ight against these things but its being brought into our own circles. As far as keeping your religious ideals a secret, I find this an entirely personal choice. Certainly its somewhat odd if you rave to everyone about ALL the things you do since you're a Witch, but if other people know, fine. If other people don't know, f ne. Its a matter of personal preference. Persecution and/or ridicule may be a risk (as I have so discovered) but I honestly think it would be better to die or be ridiculed on my feet than live on my knees... but that's just me....

azrael firedancer - 11/12/99 05:22:52
My Email:azrael0777@aol.com

Comments:
Hmmm. Fluffy bunnies? Traditional Wicca? The One right way . That last one sounds quite familiar, much like what a Xtian fundamentalist would tell me, in fact. Fluffy,, an eclectic does not a fluffy make. I understand the tendency to lash back at witches who use "The Craft" and "Practical Magic" as their chief sources of information. However, I don't know any eclectics who use one book as the "Gospel" of Wicca. Therefore, while you may have a reason to strike out at people who do this I must as a responsible person point out that the class of people you are lashing out at, with a few exceptions does not as a whole exist. I have met many pagans, witches, and others, and even those who seem on the surface to be fluffy, are at heart foll wers of the Old Ways, to the best of their ability. Now, do you mean traditional Witchcraft, or traditional Wicca? You see, Wicca is a fairly modern adaptation of the Old Ways, Gardener got quite a bit of information from traditional witches, but then top ed this off with a little Ceremonial Magick, ala Crowley. Traditional Witchcraft, on the other hand is something that, for the most part cannot be contained in a book, as a living tradition it is something that must be experienced, rather than read about nd understood on an intellectual level, and any book that claimed to transmit traditional Craft would at least be fibbing, if not lying. I could get rude, even absurd, but that would not now suit my purposes. In order to make my point, perhaps I should po nt out, as Lao Tsu did, that the only thing that are stiff and rigid in nature are things that are not alive. Living things tend to be flexible, and as such are able to adapt to changing conditions, if they don't you see, they stop living. Is Wicca a dead tradition to you people? Will you insist that it stop living and remain as stagnant as a tomb? If so, it is a shame, I hate to see the tradition of my witch friends die, especially of their own free will. I will move on, ever changing, for that is the nat re of things that are alive. I have no teacher. I come from no tradition but my own. I have no rank, no designs of power. I come from nowhere, I go to nothing. Bright Blessings **Frater Azrael Firedancer, follower of the Way.

Edouina Asheby. - 11/12/99 05:01:59

Comments:
I don't think it's being elitist to want to keep traditions as pure as possible.There is such a thing as being so openminded that your brains fall out.Where is it written that we have to tolerate everything?One of the greatest things about being Wiccan an American is the right to choose your community.If poeple of like mind choose to assemble for a specified purpose, it is their right to do so. It is also their right to refuse to associate with whomever they choose.There has been way too much of what I te m panhandling from people who call themselves seekers.These panhandlers want to pump people for information,but then distort it to serve their own purposes without any thought of the care and work that went into that body of knowledge.To take information ut of context is both disrespectful to the source and dangerous to the user.After all, this isn't child's play. Magic is serious and potentially dangerous business.Other people who want to practice a highly skilled and potentially harmful skill have to ge years of training in addition to permission from the governing powers that be(i.e.physicians,pharmacists,people who work with explosives).Is it so unreasonable to have similar standards be held to those who seek the craft of the wise?There are very good easons why we practice in secret. Be a responsible,patient seeker, and don't disrespect our right to tell you what we choose, when we choose.

DMacnaug355 - 11/11/99 04:09:08
My Email:DMacnau355@aol.com

Comments:
...True Wiccan???....looks and smells of Christianity..

CC - 11/09/99 04:39:25

Comments:
Oh, and as for anonymity being a Wiccan tenet: horsehockey= agreed, you can reach the makers or this website at owner.drak.net, and you can get the one who did the graphics at arion@starkindler.org

Balmer - 11/07/99 16:20:48
My Email:Balmer@talk21.com

Comments:
Well now lets see i have recently decided to call myself Wiccan now i honestly don't give a fck whether you think i am or not but i just thought i would say i've been wondering why all the secrecy ithought wiccan was for those who care about the planet we live on and understand it's nature to the point that they now understand that things discarded as fairytale are actualy more real than most people would care to imagine i do believe there is a place for ritual but taken to extremes it defeats the object of magic but saying that i might well be one of these fluffy bunnies you keep refering to well i'll tell you this i ain't fluffy and i am no bunny i would though be interested in perhaps coming along to one of your occasions as i am very interested in seeing some ritual magic and festival activities working to give myself a better impression of how things work do you consider yourselfs to be above others not in your group i find that very minimalistic and would be impressed if you could prove this i'll finish onthis note The world belongs to everyone some people try to live with her some without "and you who would understand justice,how shall youunless you look upon all deeds in the fulness of light only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man standing in twighlight between the night of his pigmy self and the day ofhis god self And that the cornerstone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in it's foundation.

Rain Adkins - 11/07/99 00:30:37
My Email:rain@wwbbs.otherside.com

Comments:
While I am pretty traditional in my practice and do insist on discipline and scholarship in my students, I find your angry fundamentalism kind of sad....and actually pretty similar in tone to its Christian counterpart. My friend Grey Cat is right: living faiths change and grow. And while some non-trad Wiccans are the brainless fluffheads you portray, many are not only true and highly competent Craftpeople but a hell of a lot gutsier about putting their faith into practice in community service and activism than you'll ever be, Been arrested lately for civil disobedience based on your convicitions? I thought not; you won't even sign your website. Oh, and as for anonymit being a Wiccan tenet: horsehockey. It was a painful necessity for a long time, and in some parts of Bible-belt America it still is. But to elevate it to the status of a spiritual principle.... isn't that worshiping the cell we were all once jailed in? Rain, priestess and Witch

Grey Cat - 11/06/99 18:27:58

Comments:
Living Religions change and grow. Blessed be Grey Cat

- 11/01/99 20:30:53

Comments:
Please tell me the honor you perceive in creeping around in the corners, hiding from the rest of the world. Wicca in fact Paganism in general is just beginning to be excepted, beginning to make a come back, beginning to emerge from the shadows to once again bask in the light of day as well as night. Do you want to begin the burning times again? Do you want the very mention of the word �witch� to mean certain death by the means of a rope around your neck, or maybe you would prefer rocks tied to your feet and thrown into the murky depths of some lake o river. Mmmmmm I wonder if you will float? How can we ask people to respect our beliefs, our religion if we hide behind rocks and persecut the whole idea of freedom, love and peace. If you want to preach discipline and reform go join the army. Sorry if this causes offense or hurt to anyone but I can no longer sit back and watch the beauty and love that I get from Wicca be destroyed and cast aside as a so called �fluffy bunny�.

Lady Cerridwyn, HPs - 11/01/99 02:07:36
My URL:http://cerridwynscauldron.b3.nu/

Comments:
Thank you, thank you & Blessed Be that you created this great campaign!! Now I know that I am not the only one getting hate mail from fluffy bunnies. Oh yea, if you come to my page is says "NO FLUFF BUNNIES ALLOWED"! And if you don't like it, go somewhere else!!!

Warin - 10/29/99 20:29:01
My Email:none

Comments:
I think a lovely autumn and me in red.

tomfoolery - 10/27/99 23:36:49
My Email:nope

Comments:
Yeesh. The "we're better than you are" feel of this site is just about enough to make me run off and become a full-fledged Discordian. I can understand the frustration but really, most of us started off as fluffy bunnies somewhere along the line, and most of us have actually read something by Scott Cunningham or at least used one of his reference books and are still capable of respecting our priesthood, etc.. Those of us who found something that truly called to us stuck around, those of us who were mere da blers went on to dabble in other things. Traditional Wicca has its place, so does Catholicism. It doesn't work for everyone. Oh well.

Kristof Obstfelder - 10/26/99 18:47:17
My URL:http://not@.com

Comments:
Achtung!Mein Fuhrers'honorable knights salute you.There were many of our flugelrads seen o'er Norway two nights ago.

tree - 10/22/99 02:45:22
My Email:roach@omen.net.au

Comments:
mm i was wondering what crediability levels you have for this campain. have you never bought a book on the subject, if so dosent this make you part of the problem? i agree that withcraft is becomming very commertalised and im not impressed with the teengers that think i would even bother to change my hair colour with a magical spell, but i think your argument is full of holes. i dont think there is an easy black and white answer to this , what would you do, ban books? or did you do this page merly to have fun at the irate answers? mp tree

Alyxx - 10/21/99 06:03:33
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/SouthBeach/Tidepool/5931

Comments:
This site is super....has no one ranted in a while or is no one maintaining it?

why should I? You didn't bother to give yours, babes. - 10/21/99 00:07:25
My Email:Likewise, I didn't see any personal e-mail addresses on your page.

Comments:
I went to a lecture given by a big name Pagan who said that the only legitimate form of Wicca was his particular "family" tradition. Putting aside the question of whether he actually belonged to that family (he didn't), the actual techniques he teaches h s coven are at least half things he picked up from other, more eclectic covens, and from studying anthropological accounts of the magical rites of other cultures that still have living, unbroken magical traditions. He would nonetheless feel that your pag was making an important point, one that his coven lives by example. Bullshit. The historical evidence for the antiquity of the Gardnerian trads is pretty suspect, anyway--so if that's what you call traditional Wicca, be aware that you may be making an dol of the anthropological research of a bunch of Victorian Brits who read up on their Etruscan/Italian peasant witchcraft texts. Is that "the real Wicca"? Who cares? The REAL Wicca is what is both effective and what is in keeping with Wiccan ethic. A d guess what--the whole point of covens keeping books of shadows was so they could test out the effectiveness of magical techniques--that means that some of the techniques, at least, must have been new, or they wouldn't have needed to keep a record of how the different variations worked out. It is very possible that so-called "real" Wicca is so distorted by the years of hiding and persecution, that the only way 'seekers' are going to learn to perform magic effectively is if they study the magic-making of intact traditions from other cultures. And it is noticeable how those groups tend to borrow from eachother!! This is the whole point of eclectic practice. If narrowness, antiquity and 'tradition' is all it takes to make you right and effective, the Catholic Church would actually succeed in t e few magical functions they still attempt (healings, for example).

helena price - 10/17/99 14:27:42

Comments:
As a traditional wiccan of 9 years, I, like others do feel the occasional prick of irritation when coming into contact with these black clad, candle-waving, pentacle-flaunting tossers toting their fully illustrated guides to witchcraft, but is all this ef ort and angst on your part really necessary? As long as people are doing what makes them happy (God/dess forbid) it should be fine. If you find these fluffy bunnies worthy of so much contempt doesn't that make you even more ridiculous?

I.P. Freeley - 10/16/99 03:47:44
My Email:SammieHayn@aol.com

Comments:
Greetings all you British Trad Wiccans, Traditionalist Witches, Pagans, Hereditaries and Various Assorted New Agers and Fluffy Bunny types. Pardon if I have left anyone else out who should be included. Quite frankly, I cannot understand what all of the f ss is about. In my opinion, (Its like noses-we all have one!) we are really all just a bunch of goody goody New Ager types and wouldn't know what real Witchcraft was if we all fell over it in a pile. None of us really have any tradition that goes back a y further than 40 or 50 years at the most. Some are as new as this week! Most of the "Craft" is centered around what the latest book of so and so's is and how to stare at each other in a circle, while mentioning the names of our "gods" which are merely sychological concepts anyway. For most, real practice is frowned upon, such as the working of any real magic or calling up of entities. I think that would cause most of us to have major heart attacks! Most American "Craft" is peculiar to America and our instant, watered-down, soothing New Age, fast buck materiality. Don't worry about passing down trad to future generations, cause there ain't much to pass down with any substance to it. Blessed bee to ya All!

Starra - 10/15/99 19:29:22
My Email:ldvarrin@hotmail.com

Comments:
Now i appreciate your concern for the traditional ways, but I am afraid that you may be offending mor people than you are helping. I am a coven initate, but currently practice solitary as ther is no one in my town that I know of interested in forming any ort of partnership with me. The people whom I know that are wiccan, are definitely not Fluffy Bunnies. They may have garnered much of their knowledge from books and other sources, (LIKE THE INTERNET) but they are as concerned with the traditional tenents f the Craft as you are. Wicca is worth saving from exinction you know. And the whole fact that the books about are allowed to be printed is a minor miracle. If a religion does not change to reflect the modern needs and wants (CASE IN POINT-THE ROMAN CATHO IC CHURCH) of the public who would seek it, then it will lose relevance and die. I wouldn't really get that concerned with the fluffy bunnies of this world. They are usually so flighty that whenever it isn't cool to be Wiccan anymore, they will become bud ists or Hare Krishnas or something that will feed their "It's Like,You Know" ways. When it gets too hard they will quit. And the really Trad wiccans will live to see another day. Starra.

Darren - 10/15/99 09:37:37
My Email:gaeltradoz@imaginemail.com

Comments:
Funny site, but valuable. A 60 year old telling a 30 year old 'how it is'. Wicca has some old elements, but it is still a very eclectice grouping of other peoples pracs. I learned in a Trad. Wiccan group, but also have friends who enjoy Cunningham. There's no shame in being young, all religions started young. Just remember, The Norse didn't call Watchtowers (Ceremonial Magic), the Greeks didn't believe in the God & Goddess (Jungian), The Celts didn't believe in 'an it harm none' (Gods know?). Wicca is a valuable template for individual expressions of personal religion. Add God/ess name here.......... Add divination system here........ Darren

Witheld for now. - 10/14/99 20:52:47

Comments:
I always spell it "witca".

Arion - 10/14/99 13:33:27

Comments:
*shrug* so I did some work on the graphics, what exactly would the problem with that would be ?

- 10/12/99 19:44:40
My URL:http://members.tripod.com/~shadowdrake/

Comments:
One must wonder how miserably Crystal Miller failed at becoming a Wiccan to come up with these obvious lies, and misconstrued facts she plasters throughout her website.

- 10/08/99 04:02:26

Comments:
Tara, if you are going to dish Lhiannon, then you should dish that Arion person as well since he did the graphics works for the ribbons

- 09/20/99 06:48:54

Comments:
Almost all of the orgins of Wicca and the various rituals and practices have been lost over the mist of time and because of attempted eraditcation of non-christian religions. Who tell me has the market cornered on traditional Wicca when so much has been ost over time. I'm sure Wiccans of old would think our rituals and traditions to be very untraditional and not the same as what they practiced. But how the hell would we know what they did or didn't do because the oppression that caused secret societies also meant that much got lost along the way. We once practiced openly and without fear, this is a tradition we should return to at least to some degree.

bspearbeck - 09/20/99 02:41:40
My Email:bspearbeck

Comments:
LOOK PEOPLE! I am as normal as one gets! I am looking to meet people in my area who practice the wicca religion.I am gfrom endicott n.y my name is brad and I beleive I can make SIGNICANT POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS to OUR CAMPAIGHN!I am from endicott n.y and ish to meet people with my criteria.I will know that you are serious by doing this one simple thing ,ONE of my jobs are at a company called L.A CAFE which is located at ENDICOTT N.y on NANTICOKE AVE,ask for brad .WE will talk mre if you are seriously int resteted,MAY the pure white light of the GOD,sorround you!,NOTHING BUT GOOD SHALL COME TO YOU
Ken Ra, Elder - 09/19/99 00:34:22
My Email:Triskellion1@usfamily.net

Comments:
Why dont you just read the dam site! its not about trashing the bunnies,they already are trash. It is about the Trads being Trashed, put down and having condensending children think that they Know it all because Cunnigham oe Silver raveing woof said so. he trads were there before this new crop of concieted fools. We might just have learned something worth having. The bigest problem the new crop has is that they have nothing to backup their conciet with. The old hands might have learned as much bullshit a the newbies but nothing said we had to keep it.

- 09/18/99 02:57:38

Comments:
Tara; don't you think you're being an asshole just assuming this site was put up by the same people that run a free web hosting service ? State some evidence or shut the fuck up

The Gargoyle - 09/14/99 06:58:40

Comments:
Don't you think it's hypocritical for you to put up a site like this, one about intolerance towards non-traditional wiccans, then to turn around and offer free web space at DRAK? You should be ashamed of yourself! You're the joke of the pagan community!

Tara - 09/11/99 01:22:10

Comments:
Instead of writing to savetradwicca@oocities.com wouldn't it be easier for us to write you directly at OWNERS@drak.net since you are one and the same?

Atalanta - 09/11/99 01:20:00
My Email:no thanks

Comments:
Merlin Ravenswood; you are a TWIT! The Rede came out in 1975, several decades AFTER Gerald Gardner was on the scene. While the rede is a nice bit of poetry and advice (which is exactly what Rede means) it is hardly a tenet of the Wiccan Religion. Get a grip, and quit reading so many cheese ass books

Merlin Ravenswood - 09/09/99 11:17:11

Comments:
I know what Traditional Wicca is and by not supplying *your* definition of what you believe, you do a great disservice to those of us who want to see a more organized Wicca out there. The important thing in Wicca is to remember the Wiccan Rede, this is a belief that is NOT OPTIONAL. This is the core belief of the religion (no matter what pantheon you worship) and if you do not believe in it, YOU ARE NOT WICCAN!!! The other important belief in the Wiccan religion is in the Law of Three. A law which defin s the consequences of the violation of the Rede. You cannot have a "rule" without a "punishment". Without these basic belief you cannot even begin to consider yourself Wiccan. Now the other point I need to make is that Wicca is FIRST AND FOREMOST A RELI ION. What does this mean? That means the FIRST priority is worship of the deities that helped shape the world we live in. Practicing your Sabbat and Esbat rituals will do a lot of good with gaining respect and admiration amongst your peers. "What about Magick?" you say? Well magick is as incidental to Wicca as prayer is to the Christians. It is the way we focus the energy of our desires to a specific goal. The only fundamental difference between magick and prayer is that WE believe the en rgy comes from inside and arouond us, THEY believe the energy comes from an external force. You can practice magick without being Wiccan. If your sole goal is to practice spells, please do not claim a kniship with me. I agree that we need to have set beliefs, but to say what is said on this site will merely enrage those who read it rather than educate them as to what is someone's idea of the "right" way to practice Wicca. This type of intoloerance should be left to th se who seek to harm us, so that we may unite and grow stronger.

Lynn Carstein - 09/06/99 19:45:58
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/paganpractice
My Email:crackmojo@aol.com

Comments:
I find it disappointing that so many of us are arguing over what is traditional and what is not. I am 18. I tell you this now because at this point, I want you to decide for yourself whether or not you want to read this based on my age and the experienc you suppose I have. I have practiced Witchcraft for 3 years now and am very happy with it, and I continue to study quite hard... and quite possibly take it more seriously than most other "adult" witches out there. In my three short years, I've come acr ss many "Fluffbunnies" if you will, which I have grown to tolerate. However, I don't think the purpose of this site is to support the more traditional practice of Witchcraft or Wicca, but to protest against those that we've come to call as "posers" who p etend to know everything about something that they don't. I feel that religions all grow and change. They have to in order to survive. There are some Wiccans that practice exactly as Gerald Gardner practiced and organized way back in the day. There ar also some Wiccans that practice a more evolved form of Wicca, that suits their needs and what they are comfortable with. I don't think that it is right to go about and tell people that they are not Wiccan because they are not following the OLD tradition . Looking over this site, its not really about tradition... Some that follow traditions do in fact know about the religion. Its just the posers out there who follow a religion that they know nothing of. Some of you probably have the wrong idea about it and its starting to turn ugly. Its a matter of knowing something vs not knowing anything at all... and you make it seem to be new vs old. New vs Old takes us nowhere. They each have their ups and downs. However, we always know that it is better to kno what you're talking about than just pretending you do. I support Traditional Wicca, but I also support New Wicca. I'm not going to bother deciding which is better. Which religion is better? This is something we all fight against and unfortunately, it seems that our battles are also amongst ourselves.

Merl - 09/05/99 17:44:09
My Email:no thanks

Comments:
It's been confirmed by a friend of mine (owner of the Arkansas Trad Witch List) that the publishers of this Web Site and the owners Drak.Net are one and the same. He was on a mail list with her when she outted herself as the creator.

- 09/02/99 22:32:16

Comments:

Tara - 09/02/99 08:41:40

Comments:
Is it true you people are also www.drak.net?

Argyllian Serpentenous - 08/22/99 00:01:36
My Email:sargyllian@hotmil.com

Comments:
there can be no one true path that leads to enlightenment. i think that it may be a good thing that there are "bunnies" out there. everyone is looking for something and to knock someone for questioning you on traditional wicca is just begging the questio . after all, what is traditional? what is wicca? ask all of yout traditionalistic friends and you'll see that you'll receive as many different answers as you do people you ask. cunningham is dead. he should be left alone before ya'll piss him off and he omes back to raise some hell! read what you want want. see your local occult supply store. but above all, do as you will. not as someone else whishes you to so. so mote it be! Argyllian Serpentenous

Julie Kennedy - 08/20/99 21:53:56
My Email:jaken@mindspring.com

Comments:
I meant to say "if I had NOT also read..." Sorry, my self-editing skills deteriorate when I'm delivering an Angry Bunny Rant.

Julie Kennedy - 08/20/99 00:41:21
My Email:jaken@mindspring.com

Comments:
It is the duty of every thinking person to resist the mentality of the mob. Mob mentality is insidious, it creeps up on you when you're not looking. All kinds of people who would consider themselves "above" allowing ideology to carry them to violent act on would cheerfully burn the lot of us at the stake if you gave them enough fiery propaganda (pun intended) and liquor, and history has shown the liquor is not always necessary. I don't much care for Scott Cunningham either; "The Truth About Witchcraft Today" was kind of embarrassing. But then, I wouldn't be giving this topic any thought right now if I had also read "Wicca for the Solitary Practioner." I had to give up on Silve RavenWolf as an authority when I read her "Angels" book, and yes, I DID read it. But what I got out of "To Ride a Silver Broomstick" was priceless. No one path works, and no one path is perfect. Try being a Christian trying to put a positive spin on t e Great Flood, for Christ's sake. Or, maybe, a Gardnerian Wiccan trying to believe Gerald Gardner's delusional story about the roots of Wicca. I understand you value your path. But Gardnerian Wicca is no more diluted by eclecticism than Christianity is by Mormonism. "Traditional British Witchcraft - since 1930something." Live with it.

ShadoLuna - 08/19/99 17:32:42
My Email:shadow799@crosswinds.net

Comments:
Thank you for reminding us that intolerance exists even between those who choose to follow the 'Old Ways'... Is this really about Traditionalists, new Wiccans or something third :) , or about control and need for domination? What's next, Witch Wars? What happened w/ 'there are many ways and no one only, true way to knowledge/truth?' I'm really tired from all the conflicts that 'mundane' creates, and dont need to see this between followers of SAME Path (in different ways) to. What's next, burning of 'fluff bunnies'? What makes you than different than Inquisition? No one Tradition was a Tradition in one point, they were all created once... And, all was borrowed from 'other paths/ways/trads ' . You dont have tolerance for those with different approach, but, yet, you fight against discrimination by fellow Christian , Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists, etc... If you cant accept others of the same Path, why would anyone else accept Witches/Wiccans/Pagans in general... Today we dont need to 'suffer to learn' ... Wide masses can find beginning info and always strive for more... That's individuals decision... I love it! No domination exists any more, and we can choose our own Path/Way... But, do we need to start flame wa s now? Dont think so... All wars are ugly, and, after some time we see that they can't bring anything good... (coming from someone who saw a mundane war), they all end with many victims, destruction, and loss... I started with Cinningham's books, read Farrars, Crowley... So, I do hope to achieve insight from many aspects... Do I flame those who disagree with any author/book/way/path/trad... ? No. I disagree with many things I read, but, I still wish to see other' approach... Should I go get a rope and hang myself for being solitary/eclectic Wiccan? :-) I dont mind any religion/faith/path... All are valid... All can be destroyed in some point, or become thousands of years old traditions... If you want to learn more about where Wicca came from, read Crowley :) That's where it all started (for Gerald, at least). If you are fam trad. Witch, try to find out where it all started... Everything has a beginning, and end... Let's not judge others, and, hopefully, we won't be judged... All I had to say... Bright Blessings, -ShadoLuna

Ash Muin - 08/12/99 17:36:00

Comments:
We really don't need this divisiveness. Without Scott Cunningham to open the floodgets for me, I wouldn'y have found the trad into which I eventually became initiated. Anything which helps to free people from tyrannical and abusive faiths and awakens them to the God/dess which they are is good. We can have Fam Trad Witches AND Cunningham-inspired Wiccans in this world without a detrimental effect to either camp. Let's be bigger than this.

Jacob Whitnall - 08/11/99 18:35:36
My Email:Jw188@aol.com

Comments:
Why dogmatize? Everyone should be able to practice whatever they want to however they want to. I guess I'm dogmatizing too, but you know what I'm saying. You can choose to stay traditional if you want but it's no call to be mean to anyone else for not eing into what you're into...

Malsom Hex and Kuhkey Khabs - 08/09/99 17:26:58
My Email:Arkanix6@hotmail.com

Comments:
Dear Traditionalist Wiccans, Congratulations on having contributed ( You all should not take all of the honors, there are Others,you know ) to a lot more confusion for a lot of us Newbies. What with all of the Witch Wars and all, this is a neat site for ll of those of the growing " lets burn em at the stake " persuasion to have more enjoyment in seeing a raaly good show! I think that, like the Fundie Christians, you are afraid of losing your power and control over your perspective flocks of sheep, Lord or Lady Thunder Pot! Priestcrafts have always ended up bilking the people then condeming the poor suckers for attempting to think for themselves and explore the various alternatives. Woo to you! I say Wo to you! You are no better than worms who feed of of the rotting remains of corpses slain in a war for power over your fellow man! You want complete control over the term, the Meaning of Wicca! Too late!!!! Like the Christian Coallition, we will not be denied our freedom of thought and expression! T e Lady will Herself send us a Champion! ( Hopefully a good writer not associated with that certain publishing company! ) We will battle you until the end and never give up! And may the Great-Plummed-Peacock poop in your circle! SO MOTE IT BE!

Robert M. Bratton - 08/09/99 16:04:03
My Email:Arkanix6@hotmail.com

Comments:
Dear "Traditionalist" Wiccans, Got to love ya but....have ya woke up lately and smelled the incense? Wicca was created by a man, Gerald Gardner, (and friends) who was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis, and had a charter from the leader of that erst-w ile band of renegades, the Master Therion himself, Aliester Crowley. "Every man and every woman is a Star and there is no difference." Ain't it nice to know that most of ye olde Wicca material was taken right out of Uncle Al's stuff, even the Goddess of the Witches, Nuit, represented by the five-pointed star. Crowley's Gnostic Mass was rewritten with Aunt Doreen's help and became the " Drawing down of the Moon and the Drawing down of the Sun " rituals. Tis true that old Gerald also borrowed from Dion F rtune and group's gentle influence, the Golden Dawn, Freemasonary, Leland's Aradia, Margaret Murray's work, various folk and magickal traditions, to create his own hodgepodge of a magickal system called Wica. Now I am sure that Gerald never thought it ould get this far, or did he???????? Could this have been an impulse from the Inner Planes and the Old Ones to shake mankind out of her/his downward spiral by popularizing the old ways for the general mass of writhing humanity? My wife and I are traditi nal Wiccans and Isians. We have studied and pondered the mysteries deeply and know that the Old Ones will help the sincere and dedicated person, leading them into an even deeper knowledge, but above all Wisdom. Yes, it is the New Aeon of the Crowned and Conquring Child. The Sun never sets, but forever shines. It is time for a mass initiation of humanity in general and if it takes some books by a heck of a nice guy and some fluffy bunny thoughts for starters, than it ain't half bad. If you are keeping t e true Wiccan Tradition than you know that it ultimately deals with the individual and his striving for Truth and Wisdom. No, we don't knock the fluffy bunnies, but let them do their thing. We are all learning and growing and changing. "Do what thou wil shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law. Love under Will."

Cailin - 08/06/99 04:11:36
My Email:cailinc@juno.com

Comments:
I am not Wiccan. I have studied Wicca and many other nature-based religions. I've gone so far as to be initiated into a Wiccan Trad. Yet, because my religious beliefs embrace ideas not quite held by Wiccans, i would consider myself a sham to call mysel one. Coming from this perspective, i think there is a valid point being made here. In my humble opinion, it isn't about how ancient the tradition is, or whether Scott Cunningham, etc. has done you all a disservice. It's that you have a valid tradition / reli ion in and of itself. At its core, in its truest teaching, it is very powerful and life-changing belief system and way of living; however, as perceived / explained by most (esp. the "fluffy bunnies") it is merely a shadow of truth, a watered-down feel-go d new age religion. These inadequate descriptions initially turned me off the path of Wicca. As far as the teen scene goes, with all the "goth" and dress-in-black wanna-be-different teenagers -- every generation will have something like this. Perhaps their shallow, rebellious identification with Wicca will smooth the path for the rest of us in t e future... (Umm... By the way, i'm a thirty-something goth, who wears predominately black, with a couple extra piercings and body art, who is also a contributing member of society and my community. I am grown-up and responsible, yet still a freak. Of course there re still those who have a problem with it; sometimes i just tell strangers i'm an artist -- artists can be as weird as they want, ya know. My appearance is NOT related to my religion. It's my expression of self.) And honestly, all my early training in the Craft came from some of the attacked books / authors, and i grew up to be a teacher in my own right who, from those same books, learned to NOT call myself Wiccan. One more thing before i finish my rant... Other than the criticism of these authors who helped bring much-needed truths to the masses in ways they could grok, i hadn't perceived anger in this page. Indignation, yes. But i might feel indignant too if my core beliefs were being portrayed so poorl ...

- 08/05/99 21:46:56

Comments:
that's right you tell them!

- 08/05/99 12:02:16

Comments:
Wow! There's an awful lot of anger and intollerance on this page! I understand that there are pharmeceuticls that are quite effective at alleviating these symptoms. You make an interesting point, but does this page contribute to the total good in the world? Are you doing anything to resolve a problem that has a direct effect on you own life? Or are you simply attempting to prove your superiority over the common peo le? An it harm none, do as you will, trad bunny. Kayla - a priestess of a real live, traceable trad with initiations and elevations and everything.

moarstel - 08/05/99 03:55:22
My Email:morastel@usa.net

Comments:
What a lovely page to get all of the Wiccan's fighting. Just what we need. Frankly I think if you want to keep your traditions more power to you. Not every one want's to keep things the same for all time. That's there choice. I figure if someone dislikes y way of practicing they are welcome not to practice with me. No prob. What I do brings me closer to the Lord and Lady and that is why I do it. Not to fit in or make anyone happy, but for the joy it brings me. I see no other reason to be Wiccan or any oth r religon. As for your disaproval, well, I have plenty of that from Christian members of my family. Your's will not change me any more than there's did. Blessed Be Morastel

TygerMoon Foxx - 08/05/99 00:10:33
My URL:http://www.crosswinds.net/~tygermoon
My Email:tigrmoon@shore.net

Comments:
I think the core of your ideas have merit but I think you are going about it in such a way as to make the message lost over the outcry. I am an initiated Wiccan of Gardnerian lineage and I _earned_ the priveleges that come with such a position ---the right to start a coven, the right to develop a curriculum, the right to lead and develop my own rituals, and with that the title of Lady. really don't appreciate all of the newcomers to Wicca who immediately append Lord or Lady to their chosen Craft names without any consideration of what it means. However, the self help books written by Cunningham, Silver Ravenwolf, and others have their places. They serve as a jumping off point for study and growth if used correctly and with intelligence. I myself would not have known to look for and approach the coven I am in if I had not encountered the material in these books first. Similarly, I am skeptical about claims of an "ancient" tradition because there is no academic, archeological, or anthropological evidence to support this. Everything I have seen, including some things writen by British Traditionalists, indicates that our rites and traditions are borrowed from other earlier varied sources which in turn _may_ contain bits and pieces of oral lore. There is no shame in practicing a recreated religion. I'd like to see less people cloaking themselves in the superiority of an "ancient" tradition handed down from family to family and more people educating the petitioners about our true history. Lady TygerMoon Foxx HPS Tyger Moon Coven Covenant of Cernunnos

Lynna Landstreet - 07/24/99 05:25:16
My URL:http://www.wildideas.net/temple/
My Email:lynna@wildideas.net

Comments:
Just as a point of clarification, since some people seem to be confused on this: the author of the "Why I Don't Like Scott Cunningham" article linked to on the main page of this site (namely, me), was not in any way involved with the site's creatio .

In fact, I only found out this site existed while searching the web for links to my own site, so that I could let people know it had moved (to the URL listed above). So addressing the creators of this site regarding "Your article on Scott Cunningham" isn' quite correct... (BTW, for those of you who've gotten 404s looking for that article, it's now at http://www.wildideas.net/temple/library/letters/cunningham1.html)

For the record, I don't even consider myself entirely a traditionalist. I believe that a balance between innovation and conservatism is needed in any religion, and that some degree of eclecticism can be a good thing, if it is grounded in a t orough understanding of the basics of one's tradition. Healthy trees need both roots and branches. There are several other articles on this topic on my web site for those who are interested.

Ironically, I haven't yet decided whether to put one of the icons for this campaign on my site or not! I don't agree with mindless adherence to tradition for its own sake any more than I agree with mindless eclecticism for its own sake. However, I do agre that the pendulum has swung way too far in the direction of eclecticism at the moment, and I'm glad sites like this one exist.

Kat - 07/23/99 11:13:04
My Email:don't think so

Comments:
I saw some commments by some so called 'Hereditary' Witches flaming Gardner for stealing, guess what, so did fam trads. Nothing any of you do is original, it all started some where else, and the sooner you grasp this, the sooner you'll be speaking the tr th. Lets see even one shred of proof that what you claim is a generations old practice is true and not just a bunch of jerking off in the corner.

Jennifer Singleton - 07/18/99 17:21:20
My Email:lachicaserpiente@yahoo.com

Comments:
I would just like to say that I truly appreciate this website. I do believe that some of these "pink fluffy pagans" are simply misinformed, but there are quite a few that just cash into being called a witch to accentuate the black lipstick and Marilyn Man on clothing.(I actually have nothing against Mr. M or his music.) I am 14 years old, and I have been studying wicca for two years. If asked what religion I am, I explain that I am wiccan, but this doesn't mean I go around with pentagrams drawn on my foreh ad like the self-proclaimed "goths" and "satanists" in my school, most of them not even knowing what real Satanism is, but just seeing it as a type of rebellion against the mainstream. I cannot stand watching these people talk about witchcraft and making people fall in love by casting a spell on them, or cursing a teacher for giving them a bad grade. Then these people have the balls to tell ME when I'm reading Gerina Dunwich that witchcraft doesn't work or that I couldn't do it because I don't wear all bl ck like a "real witch." I say, provide information, but let the "goths" rot in their own bad karma.

Sigwald - 07/15/99 16:02:09
My Email:siegfriedwald@hotmail.com

Comments:
I have seen a lot of changes in the craft in the past thirty years, and it seems like many of today's wiccans are only just wanting to be with those white middle-class Americans who are looking for that self righteous gratification that comes from pretend ng to be members of a persecuted minority. They may not be able to be burned at the stake these days, but at least they can be laughed at!

Orb - 07/15/99 06:48:48

Comments:
If I see one more self-proclaimed witch who asks "do witches really fly on brooms", "can we have dogs instead of cats", or "I need a spell to kill my baby coz I'm pregnant" (from a 14 year old), I think I'm gonna beat someone's head off a wall!

mandy - 07/12/99 04:06:37
My Email:mendisedai@aol.com

Comments:
Hey I just wanted to say I really like your webpage. I'm 16 years old and I've been studying wicca since I was 12 (which I know isn't a long time) but I dont call myself wiccan (unlike the hordes of "goths" that infest my school). I think a lot of kids oday are just looking for an easy way to rebel - something that's easy for them to give lip service to, and will irritate their parents. And of course, takes absolutely no effort on their part, other then the 3.99 they spend to buy a pentacle necklace an another couple bucks for some black eyeliner. I dont really think that it's the hypocritical children that you are aiming this page at, but still. I felt like saying something, because when someone tells me that they are a "witch" because they read Llewellyn's Handy Dandy Guide to Practical Witchcra t by Lady Guienivere FyreScryer of the ancient blah blah trad of whatever, I feel like screaming. In fact, I think I will. AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!

Ken Ra - 06/29/99 00:00:38
My Email:Triskellion1@usfamily.net

Comments:
The bunnies are thieves who want the name and respect of those who have worked to make Wicca respectable. They wear the colors but have done no work. They believe they have the right to take the respect that the Trads have earned by simply wearing a penta le. Respect is earned by doing something real and dificult, not by getting drunk and laid or masturbating each others fantisy egos. Age or tradition is not a good yardstick. I know some old timers who are still full of shit. I know of kids who are since e. Careing about something more than themselves is imporntant. Geting out of fantasy ego masturbation is very imporntant Ken Ra, Elder Triskellion Wicca

Jane Bratton - 06/21/99 18:12:56
My Email:arkanix6@hotmail.com

Comments:
Dear Old Keepers of the Faith WICCANs, I say pooie on it all. Am traditionally initiated and ya know what?...it actually did contribute to my thinking for myself. Wise man, old Gerald, he brought the Goddess out for all of the world to behold. Sort of conspiracy from the inner planes, wouldn't you say? Peace on you all, and blessed bee.

Seeker - 06/20/99 21:01:37
My Email:Cheradenine@aol.com

Comments:
Do the Lord and Lady care how I worship them? Or only "elitist JERKS"?

Tony Morosco - 06/08/99 02:22:39
My Email:tonymorosc@aol.com

Comments:
Not a bad site. I do not agree with every thing you say, but I agree with the general idea. I do think many of the new crop of "Wiccans" have no clue of what Wicca is all about. I have been Wiccan since 1982. I have studied with a Coven and as a Soli ary. I often lament to my Wiccan friends "What ever happened to the sex and death." Wicca has always been about the spiral of life, which includes sex as the instigating force, and death as the transitional force. How can you claim to follow a nature r ligion but ignore two of the most powerful influences of nature. I don't exactly agree with your opinion of Scott Cunningham. Yes, he is watered down. However, his books are intended to be introductory. I think they are fine as long as they are read in conjunction with other books by other authors such as the Farrar , Doreen Valiente, and of course, Gerald Gardner. I don't think Scott intended his books to stand alone, unlike some other "Wiccan" authors such as Silver Raven Wolf. Her books seem say "this is all you need to know about Wicca." I think that almost al books on Wicca have something to teach (I said ALMOST) as long as they don't pretend to be the end all and be all on the subject. I also have nothing against mixing other elements in to Wicca as long as they are compatible. Much of Traditional Wicca is borrowed from Ceremonial Magic, so I see nothing wrong with borrowing from Ceremonial Magic a little more heavily. However, Wicca as certain tenants and structure. If you stray from those tenants and structure you may still be practicing a valid religion, but it is not Wicca. (Scott Cunningham said that, by the way).

tsukino tengu - 06/03/99 07:03:48
My URL:http://www.altavista.com

Comments:
For those bunnies who complain about the Traditionalists not making themselves available or are too snobby to approach, i say this. you obviously havent tried. all the trad people i know (meself included)are very friendly people, and as for access, SURF T E WEB. there are a LOT of networking sites out there, or mailing lists to network on for your area. dont be so quick to call traditionalism stodgy. you dont know anything about it: dont knock it til you ask a traditionalist. there are plenty of covens tha will invite folks to open-ish ceremonies, so one can get the feel of what they might be stepping into. you dont get the good stuff til youre oathed tho, but at least if you ask, youll get a clue. when i made the change from ecclectic (and i did have a te cher for that route, too.) to traditionalist, i had my doubts and apprehensions, but you really dont know the depth and meaning of wicca until you start to learn, and i dont mean the watered, sketchy details you get from books. im talking oathbound, unpub ished, keyed material. and training gets pretty in-depth. its actually quite beautiful, and until i went this route, i didnt realise how much more meaningful it would be. it really IS a discipline. it is about worship and religion, not folk magick. and iv only just begun on this path...... i have SO much more to learn.....

tsukino tengu - 06/03/99 07:03:19
My URL:http://www.altavista.com

Comments:
For those bunnies who complain about the Traditionalists not making themselves available or are too snobby to approach, i say this. you obviously havent tried. all the trad people i know (meself included)are very friendly people, and as for access, SURF T E WEB. there are a LOT of networking sites out there, or mailing lists to network on for your area. dont be so quick to call traditionalism stodgy. you dont know anything about it: dont knock it til you ask a traditionalist. there are plenty of covens tha will invite folks to open-ish ceremonies, so one can get the feel of what they might be stepping into. you dont get the good stuff til youre oathed tho, but at least if you ask, youll get a clue. when i made the change from ecclectic (and i did have a te cher for that route, too.) to traditionalist, i had my doubts and apprehensions, but you really dont know the depth and meaning of wicca until you start to learn, and i dont mean the watered, sketchy details you get from books. im talking oathbound, unpub ished, keyed material. and training gets pretty in-depth. its actually quite beautiful, and until i went this route, i didnt realise how much more meaningful it would be. it really IS a discipline. it is about worship and religion, not folk magick. and iv only just begun on this path...... i have SO much more to learn.....

Boniface - 06/02/99 15:33:43
My URL:http://www.lycianwicca.org
My Email:boniface@lycianwicca.org

Comments:
Greetings, I was reading your piece as to why you didn't like Cunningham and I agree with almost everything there. But, I believe that mixing Cabala with the Craft is part of the dilution of Traditional Wicca. You recommend "Ellen Cannon Reed's The Witches' Qabala (two volumes)" this is NOT traditional Wicca. I studied Cabala for many years and then left it behind for the Craft. Reason? The Cabala and the Craft are in conflict on a very important point. The Cabala is based on the assumption that we are in a "fallen state." The "Tree of Life" has a part of it called "the Abyss" which separates us in this world from the divine, which the Cabala represents by the "Supernal Triad" (Kether, Chokmah and Binah), and says we cannot experience that and remain in this world. Once we cross the "Abyss" we can only remain there. I disagree. That is why I practice the Craft. In the Craft all is capable of being experienced; dark, light, life and death, all of the opposites including spiritual and material, but all being a part of the Divine, here and now. The Cabala teaches, that we are in a place not quite as spiritual as where we could be, and we are here, because of some sin done by a supposed ancestor of the human race. I am in the Craft because all is Divine; light and dark, and it can all be experienced in the here and now. I am responsible for no one else's sins. Things are as they are, that is all, and that is Divine. bb Boniface http://www.lycianwicca.org

Boniface - 06/02/99 15:33:24
My URL:http://www.lycianwicca.org
My Email:boniface@lycianwicca.org

Comments:
Greetings, I was reading your piece as to why you didn't like Cunningham and I agree with almost everything there. But, I believe that mixing Cabala with the Craft is part of the dilution of Traditional Wicca. You recommend "Ellen Cannon Reed's The Witches' Qabala (two volumes)" this is NOT traditional Wicca. I studied Cabala for many years and then left it behind for the Craft. Reason? The Cabala and the Craft are in conflict on a very important point. The Cabala is based on the assumption that we are in a "fallen state." The "Tree of Life" has a part of it called "the Abyss" which separates us in this world from the divine, which the Cabala represents by the "Supernal Triad" (Kether, Chokmah and Binah), and says we cannot experience that and remain in this world. Once we cross the "Abyss" we can only remain there. I disagree. That is why I practice the Craft. In the Craft all is capable of being experienced; dark, light, life and death, all of the opposites including spiritual and material, but all being a part of the Divine, here and now. The Cabala teaches, that we are in a place not quite as spiritual as where we could be, and we are here, because of some sin done by a supposed ancestor of the human race. I am in the Craft because all is Divine; light and dark, and it can all be experienced in the here and now. I am responsible for no one else's sins. Things are as they are, that is all, and that is Divine. bb Boniface http://www.lycianwicca.org

Boniface - 06/02/99 15:32:57
My URL:http://www.lycianwicca.org
My Email:boniface@lycianwicca.org

Comments:
Greetings, I was reading your piece as to why you didn't like Cunningham and I agree with almost everything there. But, I believe that mixing Cabala with the Craft is part of the dilution of Traditional Wicca. You recommend "Ellen Cannon Reed's The Witches' Qabala (two volumes)" this is NOT traditional Wicca. I studied Cabala for many years and then left it behind for the Craft. Reason? The Cabala and the Craft are in conflict on a very important point. The Cabala is based on the assumption that we are in a "fallen state." The "Tree of Life" has a part of it called "the Abyss" which separates us in this world from the divine, which the Cabala represents by the "Supernal Triad" (Kether, Chokmah and Binah), and says we cannot experience that and remain in this world. Once we cross the "Abyss" we can only remain there. I disagree. That is why I practice the Craft. In the Craft all is capable of being experienced; dark, light, life and death, all of the opposites including spiritual and material, but all being a part of the Divine, here and now. The Cabala teaches, that we are in a place not quite as spiritual as where we could be, and we are here, because of some sin done by a supposed ancestor of the human race. I am in the Craft because all is Divine; light and dark, and it can all be experienced in the here and now. I am responsible for no one else's sins. Things are as they are, that is all, and that is Divine. bb Boniface http://www.lycianwicca.org

Moira - 05/26/99 00:49:58
My URL:http://www.interlog.com/~epona/ephome3.html
My Email:You're kidding, right?

Comments:
Thanks for a great forum... If I get one more email asking how to be Witch 'like the girls from the movie the CRAFT', I'll scream...no, I'll do better than that - I'll send them HERE! This place could teach them a lot! Yes, my website is 101 - but I figure, if after reading it that it's got someone's attention - then great, they can go RESEARCH it.. I'm just giving them a wee taste.. besides, I'm not going to pour my heart and soul into some amazing essay only to have i plagiarized all over the net... Basically, I think if you don't want to be a bunny then go read a good book or twelve... Study, network and understand that the media's current love affair with Witches is based on a lot of ENTETAINING FICTION... Learn to take some responsibility for your actions and don't email strangers for spells...do it yourself. And if it THAT sounds too much like WORK, too bloody bad... having something handed to you, is rarely worth as much as that which you did all by your wittle s lf. Just shut up and practice!

Sarah... again - 05/23/99 21:04:01

Comments:
PS: And just think, something good has come of it already... You got sent some free pictures of some really cute butts!

Sarah - 05/23/99 20:50:34

Comments:
All I can say is that I have not been having a very good day. Surfing around where I usually find nothing of much value, I found this page and it made my day. I applaud your courage. It is very disheartening to see the Craft lose its depth and seriousn ss ~ let's hope it is just a passing phase. We were "in vogue" once several centuries ago, I think we can survive it again as long as those who know can hold to what is truly important.

Sewna Silvara - 05/19/99 04:12:47
My Email:triskelion@idirect.com

Comments:
Traditional Wicca....yah right...prove it. There isn't a single piece of published work other than Leland's Araidia that is older than 100 years. Gardner was a plagerist(sp?) he stole everything he wrote. Ask Vilente. Adain Kelly proved that there isn t any kind of Craft in the sence everyone thinks there is prior to Gardner. As for Fluffy Bunnies....well if the so called Taditionalists weren't so anal and secretive the "seeker" would actually have something worth the seeking to find instead of slammed doors. We do not have to hide any longer...if you want to stiffen up the quality of the Craft...start publishing those damn secrets (yah right) so that the seeker has quality guidence til he/she does find a coven (of which good ones are rare). I agree there is alot of crap published...but it started with Gardner and his incomplete stolen misinformed junk. Cunningham did do the Craft a service...it is a good jumping point for a serious student....that's about all, but that is all he intended I am NOT a Gardnerian, but I am trained as one. I am NOT an Alexandrian but am an initiated Third. I am NOT a traditionalist, as you might define it. But I AM a Wiccan Priest, and have been practising my own Tradition for the last 16 Years. Finally remember one thing; 'An it harn none, do as you will. Sewna Silvara, Hp Chief Elder, Triskelion Nemeton (of no one's tradition but my experience with the Gods)

Lothias T. WynntyrGreenne - 05/18/99 23:57:02

Comments:
I'm afraid I have no rave or rant for you. Just a question. I myself am a member of an Celtic/Ecclectic Craft Coven. But I must confess that I am more than alittle surprised by all the anger and animosity that is being directed at Scotty Cunningham. He never set out to dilute the Craft! He wasn't tryng to start a religious movement or gain a following for himself! He wa giving the basics to the those few people who didn't know how to or didn't want to (for whatever reason)find a teacher or a coven to get training in. People who wanted to practice the Old Religion by themselvs "Solitares". You must remember that it was o ce the standard, that if you wanted to practice Solitary Wicca or Craft you first had to seek out a teacher in that tradition which you chose to practice in, and those were usually found in covens. Once trained and initiated you went you own way. It is un ortunate that so many people have misunderstood his intent and have construed his works as an authorization to proclaim themselves as, and expect to be called by titles and degrees that are usually reserved for Coveners. I will always maintain that Self I itiation will never be anything like Coven Initiation. I have also noted that many have expressed and overwhelming exasperation at the Movie the 'Craft' and all those came to the Community after it. My coven sister was the technical advisor on that movie, and you will never know just how much trouble she had ryng to steer those people away from actually doing things that would get them into trouble. For example you wouldn't believe who they wanted to call as the supreme diety! But she was able to steer them to a totally non-deity name for the foreign film 'Ma on of the Spring', so there wouldn't be any 'psychic fallout' (if you will). And no matter how hard she tried she couldn't quite get them to understand that the Athame was a ritual tool and not a knife! (Cowan's!!) She however did get them not to kill the other girl (Faruiza's character) with their athames. That was just one of many triumphs. But the main thing to remember is that it's just a MOVIE! And let's not forget the other show 'Charmed' now there's one that should go into the dumpster! And meant to be enteraining. So, what do these things have in common?? They bring the inquisitive. The ones you call the fluffy bunnies, an author I know calls them White Light Bunnies. The better term is Seekers. So, they pick up a book, read it and come away with so e knowledge and one hopes, understanding (hopefully they will read more than just one book) . The more important thing to remember is that most of these people will probibly fall away and go back to whatever they were before or find some other new ideal to persue. But those that are left are the serious ones, the problem is that you can't tell the apart before hand. So, to turn up your noses at them and by way of the snide remark or sneer, to try to discourage them is wrong!! Remember no matter how much of, or what you read for that matter, knowledge is a good thing, the more the better. Wicca an Craft are oral traditions, and can't be polluted by new ideas, only enriched. Change is a necessary part of life both secular and religious. You work with what works, and discard that which doesn't.

Ioan Einion - 05/18/99 22:02:18
My Email:twomen@realmail.co.uk

Comments:
Greetings! Great page and a great idea. I am a traditional Crafter but not a Wiccan, although I have a large and extended Craft family which includes many bona fide Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wiccans, of which I totally respect. I too am 'disturbed' by the way that Wicca has now become the 'latest opiate' for an already dysfunctional society. I am glad that my Tradition has not become so open! I salute you in your work and if you feel like contacting me, then please do so. Blessings of the Nine Waves to you and your Hearth, Ioan Einion

Lord C - 05/18/99 04:27:19
My URL:http://www.Tradwitchcraft.org
My Email:Bodihisatt@aol.com

Comments:
It takes one to make one.I don't care how many books you read,How many funny letters you have before your sir name name or after it.It is not a roll your own make it up as you go kind of thing. Oh and as for you Heriditarys out there. I want to talk to your mother.

Robin - 05/14/99 02:30:19
My URL:http://members.tripod.com/~unicorn_rg/unspokentruths.html
My Email:unspokentruths@mailcity.com

Comments:
Well, I have been a Pagan, a "Wiccan", and a priest of Gaia since 1978. That doesn't put me in the Doreen Valiente category, but it still puts me around before about 90% of the current practising "TRADS". For the record, I was initiated in Gardnerian, the first time. I'm sorry, but since "Wicca" was largely invented by Gardner, and he failed to copywrite it, anyone can claim to be a "wiccan" with as much validity as anyone else. As for those claiming to be practising a form of "wicca" passed down over generations, tha is simply A LIE and a B.S. of the first degree. This whining about watered down traditions is very silly. Why, the Thelemites might just as easily whine that "Wiccans" are practising a watered-down version of Crowleyanity! After all, huge sections of the original Book of Shadows were lifted and MODIFIE from Crowley's writings. The idea that Crowley himself might have gotten them from some generational "TRAD" wiccans is simply BUNK! I practise a modified version of "Wicca", which I put together from a variety of traditions, and I have been teaching it to people since the early eighties. I am up front with people and tell them that all traditions have similar origins - original contri utions from the founding members. I have no intention of stopping doing this, and you can't make me. Nyaaaah, nyaaaah! Why don't you put a hex on me, baby!

Bkwyrm - 05/09/99 03:48:26
My URL:http://bkwyrm.occult.net
My Email:bkwyrm@occult.net

Comments:
If you dislike fluffy bunnies, come visit my essay on "TwinkiePagans" (http://bkwyrm.occult.net/twinkie.htm) Much the same thing. Only I'm not a Wiccan, so I really can't get outraged about the watering down of a spiritual tradition. Except in general.

Jamie - 04/22/99 15:51:50

Comments:
"Cute" page. On to the Cunningham point. Agreed, if taken alone his books on Wicca are pale. However, One of the points he makes in his books is to read other sources. If a seeker doesn't follow this aspect then they'r ignoring wisdom offered by the a thor. This falls short of what I believe was the intent, though I may be deluded. If taken in this perspective, Scott Cunninghams books on Wicca are a useful tool, a raging river is always easier to enter from a calm tributary.

JENNILYN - 04/20/99 20:36:42
My Email:JENNILYN6969@YAHOO.COM

Comments:
OK, CALL ME A FLUFFY BUNNY! I HAVE READ CUNNINGHAM AND AM GLAD I DID! I GREW UP CHRISTIAN AND KNEW IT WASN'T RIGHT FOR ME, TOO MANY RULES AND PEOPLE BREATHING DOWN MY BACK! MY RELIGON SHOULD BE MINE AND IT IS NOT FOR ANYONE TO TELL ME I'M WRONG! AFTER A C UPLE YEARS I FOUND A CUNNINGHAM BOOK AND SAID "LET'S SEE?" THIS CAUSED ME TO LOOK DEEPER. I HAVE BEEN ON A SEARCH FOR INFO EVER SINCE. AS FAR AS "TRAD WICCA" GOES I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW LONG AGO THE GODDESS CAME TO THE OWNER OF THIS PAGE AND TOLD HER SH WAS PERFECT! I AM 25 YEARS OLD, RAISING MY TWO YEAR OLD SON AND FOUR YEAR OLD DAUGHTER MYSELF. IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING THEY THINK I COULD BENIFIT FROM PLEASE FEEL FREE TO MAIL ME MERRY MEET, MERRY PART, MERRY WE MEET AGAIN BLESSED BE TO ALL!!!!!

Aoife - 04/12/99 22:08:17
My Email:aoifed@bigplanet.com

Comments:
I agree that Wicca has been watered down by the New Age bunnies and I don't like it. However, I think the New Age bunnies have a right to lead their own spiritual lives in any way they see fit. They just shouldn't call themselves Wiccans, in my opinion. I just found this site today and read through most of the Rants and Raves before posting. I must say I agree with everything Christine's post of 2/16 says, having been initiated Gardnerian 31 years ago. I suppose someone could just say I'm an old Crone who is set in her ways and doesn't like change. Well, that's not exactly true. I do accept change with enthusiasm, but not all changes. Changing Wicca into New Age is not a change I accept. Blessed Be to all Her Hidden Children, Aoife

who cares - 04/06/99 14:48:24
My Email:who cares

Comments:
ok. i think this thing with the bunnys has gone a little to far.my point is, if someone wants to , and i quote "join the religon" what harm are they causing if they not a true wicca.

Morrigan - 03/29/99 07:10:49
My Email:faeryqueen@webtv.net

Comments:
I just surfed onto your page, and was happy to find I'm not the only one frustrated about this. I myself practice the Faery Faith! Siochain! Which is an old traditional celtic tradition... although unlike "wicca" it is passed down orally over gerneratio s... In talking with other so called "wiccans", I must say I feel embarrased for them when they speak on the subject. More than half of them don't know the 8 sabbats, and none of them understand the actual "religious" part behind wicca... they are all gu g ho on the magick...These "fluffy bunnnies" are what is giving wicca a bad name. They read one book or see one movie (argh) and say "hey, I'm a witch". How sad for those people who must grab onto what they feel is "cool" or "hip" at the moment instead f opening up spiritualiy and fully to the beautiful Mother Goddess and her Consort. Although, we may feel a backlash now, for the "bunnies" actions and words... they are the ones hurting themselves more than anyone in the long run. To all you "fluff puf love light bunnies" reading this... yes you.... either embrace our beautiful religion for everything it is... learn, study and know... OR call yourselves "new agers" like you are and leave our religion out of it... Bright blessings to all the kindred... Merry part.

Jennifer - 03/22/99 15:26:40
My URL:http://topcat.bridgew.edu/~j1lavoie/wicca2.htm
My Email:jenifer_lavoie@yahoo.com

Comments:
Hi Interesting. It appears to me that you lack knowledge of your own history. In a similary way that wiccan's believe that a large number of witches died during the burning times. You might want to change your tag line to "traditional Family (ooops) I mea wiccan values." I agree with what you said, one persons extremism is as damaging as anothers...you sound like Pat Roberts. Thanks jennifer

Kevin H. - 03/21/99 20:08:22
My Email:bridhard@europa.com

Comments:
Interesting page. I tend to agree with many on this page both for and against the "fuzzy bunnies" Everyone must begin somewhere. I was lucky enough, some 25+ years ago to find a Coven. It is not much easier to find a good coven today than it was then. Both sides of this issue need to take a deep breath and step back. Traditional Craft has ways proven over time to get results. Whether that be on a personal growth level or getting the things we need in this world. The "Bunny" people have a vitality t at may be lacking in some Traditional groups today. We BOTH have much to share IF we can get passed our narrowness. I wish both sides of this issue the joy of the Gods. P.S. I have to admit however I do like the traditional family recipe for bunny stew };>) Blessed Be Kevin

Stephanie - 03/14/99 20:52:42
My URL:http://members.aol.com/mooolady
My Email:mooolady@aol.com

Comments:
I found your page to have point, but I think you're missing a point as well. Not everyone has a chance ot be in a "traditional" wiccan environment. I my self am not wiccan, I am merely pagan, and I find it interesting that you claim that your way of trad tion it the only way. I agree, people who link wiccan, or any relgion, is all love and light have a little more looking into it to do, but that doesn't make them bad people. Hell, I'be read scott cunningham, silver Rvenwolf, and the like, and while they g ve some good bits of information, they're fluffy. The people who take their words as sent from the gods are eventaully going to do on of 3 things : 3) always beleive it, 2) get bored with Wiccan and drop the reiligon and practice all together, or 3) start expanding their reading and realize that ti's not all fluff. However, many of these people dont' have acess to "traditional" ways of wiccan teaching. Many are younger, or have very strict Xtian families, or live in very Xtian communites where it's very ha d to live by a "tradition". Most peopel do what they can, and I see that as enough, but hten again, not everyone does.

Christine - 02/16/99 06:05:16
My Email:ccasey@lis.net.au

Comments:
Interesting site. I like good healthy debate. Am a second degree initiate trained in the Alexandrian tradition. May I begin by saying that one does not go through the process of initiation just to receive a title. It's hard work, tough and, in the case of my second degree initiation, exceptionally ainful. For me the Craft is all about spiritual development. Nothing else. It should be realised that initiation has a massive effect on one's psyche and is not to be taken lightly. I remember being invited to a ritual held by some quite charming people. They were all into peace and light and love and it seemed had little idea of what the Craft is all about. The lady running the rituals confided in me later that she should get hers lf initiated. Believe me the fact that she wasn't really showed in the work she was doing. I was asked to call the quarters which I did. It blew them all away - it was the power of it you see. What it seems to me is happening is that many people are discovering the religion of their ancestors. Being of Welsh, Cornish and English heritage, my ancesters were all Pagans once. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were priests and prie tesses. In pre-Christian times, most people would have known how to do a spell or two and would have celebrated the old festivals together. However, that doesn't mean that they all entered the "priesthood" if you like. I believe the Craft has always been for the few and probably always will be. It is definitely not for the meek. It is the most terrifying and, may I add, the most rewarding path I've ever been on. All I can say that if it is meant to happen for you it will. My first experience of the Craft was when I was invited to a traditional Alexandrian ritual. It was Imbolc actually. I only went out of sheer curiousity and had, by that time, given up any ho e of finding a spiritual path for myself. That night my life changed forever - I opened the door. My former High Priestess picked me for what I was straight away. I had no idea at the time and didn't even realise until then that people even called them elves witches!! It's a tough tough road. Travel it if you dare!! Blessed Be Christine

- 02/09/99 17:35:16

Comments:
"Ever remember ye are the hidden children of the Goddess so never do anything to disgrace them or Her."

Nygume - 02/01/99 04:16:32
My URL:http://www.bigfoot.com/~pagansunited
My Email:webmaster@pagansunited.zzn.com

Comments:
Merry meet if I must say. Well I do believe in your thoughts here.. yes Wicca is much better in it's traditional form.. and I don't like the bunnies myself, and I will be adding your banner on my page, but I must also say that the wordings used on this p ge could have been more better to truly bring the honor to the tradition, and the way you are addressing this situation is just not making sense to me. then again every one is unique in their own expressions. I wish you good luck in reviving the traditio , I shall do my part. Merry Parts and blessed be.

Nygume - 02/01/99 04:12:42
My URL:http://www.bigfoot.com/~pagansunited

Comments:

Se'Seta - 02/01/99 01:26:31
My URL:http://www.angelfire.com/mi/ElectricOwl/

Comments:
I think I love you...... "what is the difference between a "neo-pagan", and a "retro-hippy"? not much. they both steal their mothers'old clothes and worship Stevie Nicks. PLEASE---NEVER REMOVE YOUR SITE!!! xoxo

dru lisa - 01/29/99 19:44:36
My Email:drulisa@hotmail.com

Comments:
Merry meet and salutations. I would just like to say that I have been blessed by the God and the Goddess with natural healing gifts. To all whom are disbelievers,skeptics, or just into wicca for the "fun of it" or for selfish reasons: I pity you for yo will never understand true love or anything of any substance. I know very little considering you could not learn everything about wicca in a lifetime but I will never stop learning. Wicca is something that should NOT BE PLAYED WITH OR TAKEN LIGHTLY!!!! It is a WAY OF LIFE. Blessed be to all whom understand what I mean! Feel free to e-mail me.

Rowan - 01/18/99 22:49:24
My URL:http://www.whitedragon.demon.co.uk
My Email:white.dragon@dial.pipex.com

Comments:
I'd be more impressed if you had more to offer than an apology for the invention of a clapped out pervert. It takes more than 50 years to make something "traditional".

Peter - 01/18/99 22:05:55
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/RainForest/Vines/2249/
My Email:pagancentral@oocities.com

Comments:
hehehehe. You are right. Thank heavens there are other people out there with a clue. To all you fluff bunnies - Get a life! Scott Cunningham, oh right, the Italian traditionalists who trained him were delighted to see the chaff he produced. It lulls people into spiritual slumber. Persuades them that a few words and an oiled green candle will change their life. That a few dolla s can enable one to *purchase* wisdom that has been sliced and bagged for sale. What rot. Maxine Sanders ? Someone here quoted her as an ideal - have you *met* the woman. Good grief. And before I finish, all the "Celtic" traditionalists. Yes, you, over there in the corner. What crap is it you are spouting. Heaven help me, my father's side are Welsh farmers and I'd dearly love for you to be me, have them as family and see just how roma tic it is to be a "Celt". Don't people realise the term is an vague linguistic label that is practically meaningless ? Agh. Enough already. Most Wiccans on the net are really Christians with two gods instead of one-in-three. Give you another 2000 years and it'll be Catholicism revisited.

Mariamne - 01/15/99 03:33:25
My Email:staker2@icom.ca

Comments:
The only rant I have is that you seem to believe that everyone who visits your page will rant. I for one wholeheartedly agree with your views. Our HPS oft laments about "standing on a pile of bones" of people who came to us expecting a first since they ad read one or two books without the discipline... my road to Traditional Craft certainly began with Starhawk and Margot Adler and even (hide behind cloak) Scott Cunningham but anyone who stops there is a demented fool. Wicca is not a way of life or a so ial club - it is a religion and we are priesthood, so we should definitely take it seriously and try to study all that we can. Kudos to you, and any others who support you. Give yourself a pat on the back for having the bravery to set up this very enter aining site.

Adinna - 01/10/99 18:16:53
My Email:adinna@pagansunite.zzn.com

Comments:
So you folks want all to see wicca as you, well i don't think so! Why put down a great writer a as Scott Cunningham?He brought his view and you have yours.SO? The man is dead,we should all respect his view and his memory. As for your fluffy bunny thing, you can stick that were the sun don't shine. I am A ECLECTIC Wiccan, that only means i don't stop myself from learning all that I can.I at least have an open mind and don't close out other Trads or put people down for what they stand for. So get a life!! May the Goddess Bless You Always! Gee you need someone to Bless You. Merry Part. Adinna

Ryonach - 12/15/98 03:45:41
My Email:katnip@ibm.net

Comments:
My freind arwen says 'im a nature wich and you all owe me an apolgy for the bad things you have siad

Dian Inda - 12/14/98 18:27:15
My Email:Paganinkinmpls@juno.com

Comments:
Hi, Firstly, thank you for the site. I think that this subject deserves more attention than it usually gets, and it's nice to see a cross-section of vehement opinions. Secondly, my two cents (or more, I do tend to get mouthy). I agree that much of the "Wiccan" or "Witchy" material out there is crap. Silver Ravenwolf, Amber K and their ilk are doing more harm than good. However, as quite a few have pointed out; they *are easy to find. And if there are those of us who would suggest against it, it makes sense to at least give a hint where one *can* find good information. So here goes. Capal Bann publishing - look for Call of the Horned Piper, and Magic Without Peers. Meet people. Go to the local New Age or Wiccan (or whatever it is where you live) shop and ask around; try out classes, look for signs there about coffee-sho meetings and such. Check out local small press papers and if there are no 'talk about philosophy or nature-based spirituality' type ads or gatherings, start one. There are a number of zines about that you can subscribe to. Heck, I'm the submissions editor for one of them. Pagan Ink. It comes out quarterly (seasonally) and it's a couple of bucks for a sample issue - 8$ for a subscription. We only charge a buck in s ores, but we are not-for-profit and need to charge more for subscriptions to cover postage (argh). Write us an article and we'll send you a free copy of the issue it appears in. Sorry for the comercial, back to the subject at hand. Yes, Witchcraft/Wicca (they are really the same word - don't take my word for it - go research it in the OED and other places) is initiatory. Yes, it requires work on the part of it's practicioners. Th s is not a path for lazy gits, or wimps. Don't just listen to whatever crap you may have heard - and don't just take my (or anyone's) word for it. Go read Carlo Ginzburg's books. Go read a copy of Aradia, or anything else on the subject by Leland. Heck, l ok for one of Gardner's books (they are out of print, but still turn up in second hand bookstores). If you 'chose' this path - then you still don't get it. The ones that belong here are following a call their souls have heard for years, and they will struggle to do, to reclaim, to honour what seeks to claim and know them. What do you do? Why do you do i ? What do you think? Do you think? That is what Wicca needs. People who EARN the right to experience the mysteries. Not "gimmie pigs" who arrive with entitlement and attitude to spare. Yes, you have the right to earn the right. Will you? Dian

Nievka - 12/10/98 12:06:49

Comments:
YOU SAID Bring back the discipline to Wicca Discpiline is something from within, and is found , no matter what religion, tradition . And you guys lacked the discipline to deal with your own boredom and frustration YOU SAID Bring back the honor of the Priesthood You call this honor? Belittling those with beliefs different to yours is honorable? Writing off a dead man's efforts to help reeducate the world against centuries of misinformation and hatred is honorable?? Really . YOU SAID Bring back the "seeking" to the Seeker Yeah here we go with this stupid 'seeking ' excuse again. Think of it like this. To be interested enough to join Trad Wicca, you would have to know a bit about it. The usual way of following an interest is to read about it, to increase your knowledge of i . The resources for this are writers like Cunnigham and Buckland as they are the most accessible to someone who knows little of Wicca. But by this stage they are written off as a fluffy bunny by traditionalists. Seek what?? A path of elistism and secrecy Or a path of spirituality and independance. And may I add the Traditional coven I'm shortly to join has 'Wicca' by Scott Cunningham on their reading list before joining YOU SAID Bring back the weight of the Oath The statistics are more witches who take it upon themselves to learn about Wicca and practice by themselves stay Wiccan for those who enter cold into coven training. Deal with it. And a witch is as good as their word. If someone doesn't keep their oath, then they obviously weren't set out for this path then were they?? Bring back the Mysteries The mysteries are also found within oneself and not religion or tradition. They have been around longer than you were. We are talking about the Creator here, Gods and Divinity whatever you want to call it, but powers HUGER than we will ever have concept o . Do you think they care if you are Elder and 100th degree of the Yadayadayada tradition?? Someone obviously has an overestimation of their own religious importance. I also wish to bring up a psychological theory which rings true for the creators of this site. Projection- the recognotion of anothers traits which is found within own psyche or- It takes one to know one. It is impossible to critisise anothers way unless it is apart of you. An example of this is homophobia= those who screech about "poofs" and "gays are likely to have deeply supressed homosexual feelings. In this instance- I think you have your inner fluffy bunny to deal with. Bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle black don't' you think?? I wish you guys luck in finding peace in your own spirituality so you no longer waste time , effort and energy critizing others. If your secret and holier than thou path is so good - good for you. But this pathetic excuse of a site seems proof that someone has missed the boat , religion wise, and has a lot of issues within to deal with, anger and sadness for one. Fluffy Bunny I may be...but this isn't about me. I don't need to justify anything to a bunch of sad people who have yet to master the concept of spending their time on Earth . And on that note, I will go find some thing more worth while to do than waste ime on what will probably be recieved by a brick wall response . Blessed be. Nievka Mac Cumhal

Autumnrivers - 12/08/98 11:44:35
My Email:CitrusGirrl@yahoo.com

Comments:
I am convinced after reding this page that you lot are just a load of idiots who understand HTML and know a bit about wicca who thought it would be funny to take the p*ss (if that's OK) out of it. Your beliefs are no better than anyone elses and i find it sad that you are tainting a beautiful religion with your closeminded idiocy. Does anyone reading this agree? Mail me

Anonymous Dissenter - 12/04/98 18:27:34

Comments:
On behalf of my coven, I'd like to express our feelings for your site. However, words could not do it justice, so we've decided to put a photo up instead...

Anonymous Dissenter - 12/04/98 18:27:15

Comments:
On behalf of my coven, I'd like to express our feelings for your site. However, words could not do it justice, so we've decided to put a photo up instead...

The Urban Valkyrie - 12/04/98 18:16:18
My URL:http://members.tripod.com/~Jinxster
My Email:jinxster@cybergal.com

Comments:
Get lives, you lot. Honestly, you sound just like Christians. "You're not a real Wiccan unless you're Trad Wiccan!" Please. Which tradition, for a start? Gardnerian? Alexandrian? Dianic? One of the many witch family traditions around? What does "Trad Wiccan" mean, anyway? You use the phrase so much and yet never get around to defining it. Scared someone older and wiser will contradict you and destroy your precious little campaign?

Any religion which does not change will ossify and crumble: see Catholicism. Why should Wicca be any different?

If these "fluffy bunny" teen witches piss you off so much, that's your problem. They'll grow out of it! Some will no doubt go atheist, others may turn out to be surprisingly good at it and go on to be the Maxine Sanders, Freya Aswynns, and Doreen Valien es of the 21st century. So right now they're acting like children? Teach them.

(PS. If this is satire, it didn't work. You weren't nearly rabid enough to be satirical.)

CaRRi - 12/03/98 18:45:17
My URL:http://Minds are like parachutes..they work best when open...

Comments:
I don't call myself a Wiccan. Not yet anyway. I don't yet think that I'm worthy of that title, seeing as I'm just learning the best I can. However already I've seen some Christians attidutes towards us, and in my mind you lot are being no better. You are just being ridiculously narrow-minded and what you are doing is saying 'My way is best.' Next you're gonna start burning eclectics right??? ? From what I already know, and what is all around I know Wicca isn't just 'fluffy bunnies' etc, (and yes, I have read Scott Cunningham)- it is balanced. Balanced in sex, and in dark and light. And another thing...I am solitary..I have *no* access to a coven, and therefore it is actually quite hard to become Trad. I expect I will be a broom-closet, solitary, ecletic witch & wiccan and you can bitch about how I am diluting your precious culture a d tradition all you want, but I have as much right to my beliefs as you have to yours. Remember that.

Belle - 12/03/98 11:31:32

Comments:
I apologise for what appears to be a spam attempt on my part however was the work of pushing the wrong buttons, to coin a phrase. I had not realised it had this affect until today when I came to check for responses. I hope that whoever owns or mantains this board will happily(?) delete the excessive entries of the same message. By the way- wouldn't a message board serve better the purpose of this site rather than a guestbook format? Just a thought

Belle - 12/02/98 16:09:46

Comments:
"Kindness is more important than wisdom and the recongnition of this is the beginning of wisdom" QUOTE- Theodore .Isaac.Rubin

Belle - 12/02/98 16:06:11

Comments:
"Kindness is more important than wisdom and the recongnition of this is the beginning of wisdom" QUOTE- Theodore .Isaac.Rubin

Belle - 12/02/98 15:56:40

Comments:
"Kindness is more important than wisdom and the recongnition of this is the beginning of wisdom" QUOTE- Theodore .Isaac.Rubin

- 12/02/98 15:53:23

Comments:

- 11/30/98 16:43:45

Comments:
I love traditional wicca so bite me you fluffy bunny bitches!

FLUFFYBUNNY - 11/24/98 00:36:31
My URL:http://www.fluffybunniesrus.com
My Email:fluffybunny@ishtar.com

Comments:
You said:This is simply an obnoxious page that was put up in a moment of frustration that we actually tend to forget is even here - until we get emails from the site. If you would check your rants and raves section you might see more people disagreeing with you.� And if this was put up in a moment of frustration why is it still up. YOU said:Are you emailing us about witchcraft or Witchcraft? There is a difference You seem to give the impression that there is a difference between witchcraft and Witchcraft.� There is no difference between witchcraft and Witchcraft expcept maybe a typo.� And don't bother to reply that you must seek the answer, that is just admitting you don't know the answer.� The cowards way...(avoidance).� You said: And claiming that a religion that has lasted in one form or another for thousands of years would die out if it's not practiced the way you think it should be practiced is awfully arrogant, don't you think? We're not claiming that Wicca will die ut if everyone doesn't practice Trad Wicca. Yes we think that is arrogant, and that is what you are saying that your way is the only way.� This statement is� a total contradiction to what you have been saying all along.� One form or another is what you just said, whose to say your form is the the o ly form. You said:In his incessant attempts to portray Wicca as a "life-affirming religion" he avoided or whitewashed any recognition of the other side of this very central polarity, and thereby ensured that the version of the Craft he presented had very little to offer anyone whose life hasn't been a bed of roses. Wicca is life-affirming, have you forgotten life, death and rebirth what the hell do you think that means, if not life affirming.� You need to seriously take a look at what you write and perhaps your problem is that you don't read enough, and take at face value what others tell you.� You need to have a mind of your own not to spout doctrine someone told you.� You need to understand what you talk about,parroting something is not understanding , and by no means knowledge. You said:Scott Cunningham was a Trad Wiccan, and one of the few Wiccan authors that didn't break his oaths to pen his books. But accepting part and parcel what any author tells without examining that which they left out or couldn't tell you is irresponsib e. AND THEN YOU SAID: by pushing the do-your-own-thing definition of Wicca, Cunningham contributed substantially to the dilution and degradation of Craft tradition. You seem to contradict once again, obviously you are confused. You should get your facts straight before spouting of opinions that are inflammatory. And perhaps if it was done in a moment of frustration you should remove the webpage.

Wavedancer - 11/23/98 07:48:00
My URL:http://www.fluffybunniesrus.com
My Email:fluffybunny@ishtar.com

Comments:
I am proud to be what you would call a "fluffy bunny". As a child of the Goddess, whose sacred animal is a bunny, I would recommend that you take a dip in the great cauldron of transformation. If this web page was created in a moment of frustration the why does it still stand? All seekers search for something and have to start somewhere, there is such a thing as growth. Some may not achieve what you would call Trad Wicca in this lifetime, but as the doctrine of rebirth states, learning is eternal. I chose this religion because I didn't want to be part of the Catholic philosophy, if I wanted the heirachy, secrecy, and ridgid rules I would be Pope now. Wicca is special in that we believe not only in the Celtic Deities, but also in the myrid faces of t e God and Goddess. Each person is an individual and may practice what is in there hearts and minds in a way that makes sense to them and the God and Goddess. I have read Cunningham, Farrar's, Conway, Cabot, Amber K, Marion Green, Cook, G.A Hawk, Blacksu , Starhawk and Ashcroft-Nowicki and feel that I have gotten a well rounded start to understanding myself. Trad is not the sole path for those in search of the God and Goddess. Be they wear horns or crescents all are children of the Goddess, and therefor sacred. Hate is Hate no matter how you sugarcote it or try to hide behind a name(ie. Trad Wicca). Everything has its place in the sacred cosmic all. Lest we forget the Threefold Law, Merry Meet, Merry Part, and Merry Meet Again. Blessed Be.

kelly - 11/16/98 18:52:10

Comments:
I belive you are correct on one point, Wicca like any other "religion" needs to be respected, and the Traditions need to be kept. But what you seem to forget is that unlike other "religions" Wicca means respect for all, even if we don't like them or their actions. If it harms none, do as you will. How are these "neo pagans" harming you? It is not my place to judge you or any one else, but it seems to me that unless you are born into a family of witches the only way to become one is to "convert". Not all converts are perfect from the begining but they learn and bring something special wi h them. Please think about this and find a small place in your heart for all of the Goddesses children.

willowreed - 11/13/98 02:02:10
My Email:willowreed@mailexcite.com

Comments:
i agree with this statement i saw in a previous note : "Tha Man" started a trend that has lead to people picking up his book and looking no further. Just because someone wrote it in a book doesn't make it gospel - ever heard of the Bible? And there are no cornerstones in Wicca, bub. Wiccans cast circles. - Ed tors i believe that people MAY learn something basic from those books but they need to delve further. imagine only using a book to learn the craft...it would sorta be like, trying to learn to play the violin from a book. doable, yes, and sometimes you can get ood at it...but a lot is missed that a teacher could help with. years of learning makes a DIFFERENCE.. i dont like to slam authors, especially dead ones as they cannot defend themselves....but i think if folks are gonna try to learn "the craft" from books, they need to read more than llewellyn's stuff.... i read his books, a lot of them, but i progressed onto bigger and better things. i found a teacher in real life and it made a BIG difference... i agree with keeping the trad traditional...but remember there are folks out there that have no access to a trad group.... :) wils

Storm - 11/10/98 22:44:08
My Email:misty_storm@hotmail.com

Comments:
Seems to me Wicca is a "Neo-Paganism" religion.So,if I'm not mistaken,that in its self is a variation on tradition.It is a branch of Paganism.As is Celtic,and Witchcraft,and all those others.Just a thought........ Truthfully I don't think it matters.Ya'll are acting like Christians saying that it's your way or nothing.Who's the real Wiccan here?

Kat - 11/10/98 22:41:43

Comments:
*smile* First of all, everyone is allowed their own opinion. Not all of us "Fluffy Bunnies" are as fluffy and cute as you think. Not all of us are blatantly outspoken in our beliefs which is why the e-mail is unlisted. I feel sad that someone feels tha they need to fight against instead of working together since we are whether you like it or not in this together. Some of us are just more uneducated. I have been reading a great deal. But, there is more to this than tradition, reading, or anything else there is heart. I know in my heart, that I am doing what is right. I know in my heart that the Gods all many faces and kinds of them approve of my direction. I am guided just like the many of you. Are you jerks? No, you are upset at the masses makin you feel like less than what you are. You are standing up for what _you_ believe in. Just as I stand for what I believe in. Many of us are attuned to our past lives or becoming in tune with them. That creates a different feel. I do believe that beca se you are Wicca doesn't make you a witch. I am still trying to find my place in this mess. I am guessing that many others are too. I hope that one day you may find the peace and love of the God and Goddess truely. Please don't forget that many of us ave left orthadox religion because of the battles within it. May the God and the Goddess bless you. Kat Still no craft name.. I believe it will come to me in time. As in all things.

Gwydion Stormbringer - 11/04/98 04:07:55
My Email:amaethon@aol.com

Comments:
I think it's ridiculous that people buy a couple of books on 'instant witchcrap' and suddenly run around calling themselves 'initiates' or even 'elders' of some Wiccan tradition. I've studied and worked for over 30 years to become worthy of the designati n Elder and Teacher. Stomp the fluff bunnies and their bubble-gum Craft! I agree with you...keep the Craft Traditional. When you lower the overall training standards, it gets like the schools in California: everyone knows less and doesn't care to know more. After all, why read 100 books if you can call yourself a self-initiated Elder/Wiccan after reading 2?

Karen - 11/02/98 18:37:05

Comments:
I do hope that you remember that witchcraft has been present on this planet since before the time of Abraham, under one name or another. Traditional Wiccans are newcomers too.

Spark - 10/23/98 07:04:24
My URL:http://www. naw..you wouldn't like it. com
My Email:loxksly@hotmail.com

Comments:
I don't consider myself a 'fluffy bunny'. Nor do I follow the Old Tradition. I've read a book or two by Cunningham (didn't like it that much...a little too pastel for me). RavenWolfe had some interesting things to say......I've also read books that were a little older. I am not an eclectic witch. I follow Celtic gods (the ancient Wales ones to be more precise), and follow as much Celtic creed as I can. I don't call myself Wiccan, though I own a pentacle and when asked if I am, my response is 'something lik that I suppose'. I agree with the message that was posted about initiation and the term Witch and all. I don't have the pleasure of being called a Witch if we go by that statement. However, I don't think I deserve the title 'Wiccan' yet. Does someone wa t to hit me over the head with a mallet and then TEACH me instead of just giving me the first bit?????? I'd love to hear from you.

Fire grrrl - 10/16/98 10:24:48
My Email:NO WAY, LOVES...

Comments:
On a recent foray into my local bookstore, I glanced down at the new releases, only to have my gaze fall upon an enticing piece of literature with the tasteful title of "Teen Witch", by Silver RavenWolf. My cheeks flushed a mortified scarlet as my compan on nearly fell to the floor in a fit of hysteria. It was that bad. The cover was reminiscent of an Alicia Silverstone movie; saucy young things wearing bad fashions and M TV pouts, slick and 'hip' as an episode of 'friends'. Trees died for this boo ? Now, I was not born into a heritage, nor have I practiced with any of the English based traditions spawned by Gerald Gardener. As a matter of note, I consider myself a witch, and a pagan, but not a Wiccan. I have never been one for working in groups r kissing anyone's little priestess fanny. However, because my personal philosophy of what I always thought Paganism to be has been so thoroughly misinterpreted and down right abused of late, I can relate to your beef, though I don't necassarily agree to everything I read here. I too, am tired of tripping over 17 year old 'Wiccanlets' sprawled upon the floor of the occult section, smacking their Bubble Yum as they vacantly peruse the latest offering of 'Moon phase madness at a glance' or 'Love Spells i an instant'. I'm sick of so called 'Pagans' with huge beer and pizza guts who do nothing but sit in front of their computers all day indulging in role playing games and wolfing down yet another fast food combo meal while McDonald's clears another few hu dred acres of dwindling rainforest in Brazil. I'm tired of 'Wiccan' or 'Pagan being simply another alias for 'new age', 'Fairy', or 'Unicorns and Dragons'. What is this religion supposed to be about anyhow, Star Con '98? Xena gets spiritual? What hap ened to the Great Mysteries, the Old Gods, the revered forces of Sex, Death, and Nature in all her aspects, not just white light and butterflies?! Excuse me, but I think something got lost in the translation. Is this dillution and consequent 'sugarficat on' the result of Scott Cunningham's books and the horde of 'moon and magic' books they've spawned in turn? I admit, I've read a few 'fuzzy bunny' books (by the way, I actually like rabbits of the hopping, four legged variety; very inspiring, placid beas s that could teach the irksome, noisy human race a thing or two). These books are very much like series romances, you know what I'm talking about, those horrible Harliquins stashed away in Aunt Dodie's undie drawer. GlamSpam covers dripping in Cheeeeze, light on substance, heavy on pap. Now, I have nothing against Mr. Cunningham personally (though S.RavenWolf, DJ. Conway and the like should start writing episodes for 'Sabrina, the teen age witch' and move to Hollywood). I think he was sincere , though will never understand why his work was so influential ( I guess because at the time there wasn't a whole lot to embrace). Personally, I never really thought he was that great of a writer, never mind what he believed. Some people probobly took what they needed from his books and became usefull and productive individuals in the Pagan community. Who knows?! In my humble opinion, I think the greater problem lies not so much with the 'fuzzy bunny' authors as it does with the powers that are promoting them Wicca, and Paganism in general, along with numerous other religions has become immensely profitable. Just look at the web! Everywhere you go, krappy Pagan sites with embarassing 'new age' graphics abound. These sights are often responsible for educa ing people as to what paganism is...or is not. Catalogues dripping with glittery bewinged images and crescent moons offer poorly made merchandise and all the 'fuzzy bunny' books your shelf can hold (yes, there are some good sites, but they seem to be few and far between). Is it any wonder nobody really 'gets it' anymore? Splatter something with pentacles and voila!...Religion! Ahhh, the sweet smell of capitolism...would someone please flush the commode? On the bright side, perhaps more people will get involved whose credentials involve more than just a shelf full of flimsy soft cover books and a pewter pentacle from Spencers. At least some of the 'feminist' witches are doing stuff; at least they are politically and socially active to create change for the greater good, something not a lot of trads seem to be doing. If anyone is keeping the spirit of Paganism alive, it's them. If that is you're definition of a 'fuzzy bunny', well than 'what's up Doc?'.. So who's right and who's wrong? Who knows? I ust strive to do what I can. Thanks for the vent. Peace, Fire grrrl..

Wolfheart - 10/12/98 07:20:03

Comments:
Wicca is a Folk-Religion. It will change with the people. Without change it is dead. BUT Religion is not a game. If you are simply looking for a cheap thrill, try "Snakes and Ladders."

Nancy - 10/06/98 22:06:26
My Email:jaded_18@hotmail.com

Comments:
Ok, I don't tell people what religion I am, be cause for a long time, I had no religion. I recently (about a year ago) found out about Wicca. I thought it sounded interesting and did some research. I found something I could actually believe in. I now on't tell people what religion I am because I am still studying. Too many people come up to me, point at my star, and say comments like "Satanworshipper" or "witch". I don't mind when people ask as much as when they ASSUME. I tell them I am studying my religion. I HATE theat people assume bad things as soon as they meet people who are different. It really pisses me off that it took me my whole life to find something I could truly believe in, and now, I am jeered at and teased because of it. One thing I AM glad about is pages like this designed to teach and help people. Thank you for trying to preserve something close to my heart and soul. Merry meet, Merry part.

Avin McQuarrie - 09/29/98 06:39:23
My Email:Avin@prodigy.net

Comments:
I must say that I agree with your basic tenements. I do not believe that you can glean magic from a book, and I do believe that there are certain rules and thought processes that must be taken into a structured thought process in order to be Wiccan. Howe er, do we want to become fascist dictators? Do we want to become exclusionary? Do we want to fall into the montheistic trap of "I am, but you're not"? Isn't that why most people who practice the craft are so disgusted with Christianity? If someone els wants to be a "fluffy bunny" why do you care? If we all spent less time fighting amongst ourselves (humans as a whole, not just Wiccans) wouldn't religious persecution disappear. Beware: someday after "they" come for the fluffy bunnies, they will come or you. No more burning times ever! Not even fluffy bunny bonfires!!!!!!!

Iccus - 09/25/98 14:35:54
My URL:http://members.tripod.com/~Iccus/index.htm
My Email:Iccus@webtv.net

Comments:
We desire to add one of your banners and a link to your page on our website. We need an html code so that we may transload or link to it wichever you prefer. Needless to say we find your site to be an accurate portrayal of those who seek to make the path a superhighway. Thank you for anything you may provide.

Skylar121 - 09/25/98 05:57:42
My URL:http://www.hotmail.com
My Email:Skylar121@hotmail.com

Comments:
....I forgot to ask when I was here before: If you're talking about the Old Ways, where does Gerald Gardener come into play? Compared to the Old Ways I've been taught of, Gardener's still a spring chicken........

Skylar - 09/25/98 05:52:49
My URL:http://www.hotmail.com
My Email:Skylar121@hotmail.com

Comments:
I MUST SAY...this seems like a clasic case of "the forrest through the trees" syndrome. Now don't get all excited, I have no bones with ANY of you. Reading down through this list of commentary, I found myself siding with each and every one of you for at l ast a moment. When I reached the bottom, I had a moment to process it all. This is what I have to contribute on the matter: Many of you are displeased with the fact that the Old Ways are metamorphasising. I can relate. Deep down, I have a wholesome respect for keeping things the way they are "meant to be". I don't support the fluffication of my spirituality any more than y u people do. Look at the film "The Craft", for example. A blatent and neauseating display of fluffication at it's most degrading and corrosive level. Do I condone this type of mockery? No. Do I slash on the people who buy into that garbage? No. Nothing we can say or do will alter their fascination with that all-encompasing vision of wonder. I think it's something that the younger generation will grow out of. In the meantime, what are we projecting here as an outline and a structure for these same on-lookers who do begin at the writ of Scott Cunningham? What I see here is a back and forth battle of a bunch of people who have to have the last word. That is ot what I percieve our faith to be about. But I can tell you this much; I attended Catholic high school for two years as a practicing Wiccan, and there, my lovelies, you will find the hardest of the hard-core last-worder's. It wasn't what I learned there hat I took with me when I left, it was what I had un-learned. The Catholics modeled what I would be ashamed to represent. I stood witness to the pain and trauma that stems from a faith of "one script" and "one way". Many of the people who teach and preach in that manner are too caught up in the "right way" to have 20/20 vision, or to appreciate the ebbing tide of mystery that rises around their very ankles. I have grown keen to this in my years, and I sense it permeating most of what is writen here. Let me ask of you; do you teach? Is that your goal here? Did you know that the most important element in teaching is the ability to guide? When you can direct someone to the way things are "meant to be" with kindness, an open ear, and a soft rein, the you can teach. When you cram theory and "law" down someone's throat, and instill it in them by way of authority and domination, all you are capable of is spewing out an empty bubble of your own gratification. I think some of you need to take a good inward look. Few people can really boil things down to 100% truth, especialy upon inflection. But really, what does your faith (right, wrong, traditional, neo, whatever) stand for in your heart of hearts? This w rld is a whacky place, far different from the world in which the Old Ways originated. If, in your deepest resivoir of lifeblood, your faith is about fighting a battle of the final say, I suggest that none of you hold your breath. Tday, look at someone you don't like, and see if you can smile at them with a good intention. You might learn something about yourself. Feed back will be accepted graciously, or non-graciously at my discretion. Don't knock on my door with a bone to pick. Throw your oppinion on the table, as I have. If you act your age (whatever I feel it may be) You'll recieve my full atention. Blessings to you all from Skylar

Natasha - 09/24/98 19:37:21

Comments:
FOrgot to mention; for that 6 year self proclaimed wiccan, try learning to spell Initiate properly, and you might be taken a bit more seriously

Natasha - 09/24/98 19:36:07

Comments:
For the ass that stated: "I have been wiccan for 6 years now. And for all reading this YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE anitiated into Wicca." You are completely wrong. To be one, you must be initiated by one - plain and simple, been tauht that way since the days of Gerald B. Gardner. It wasn't until the days of the failed Gardnerian Cunningham and his crappy books that this lie was spread. Those not initiated are Witches, and should be proud of that fact - why glom onto something you are not? Are you really all that impressed with a title and what others think of you that you feel you need to 'fit in' to be taken seriously? Yes, the reputation of Trad Wicca has suffered greatly at the hands of Cunningham Cultists (and the like), so do you really blame them for getting indignant when a book learned Pagan tries to lay claim to an Initiated title ? Anyone with an honest sense f logic would understand these feelings. If one is serious in "Seeking" the path of Wicca, then get off your ass and do so - there are more than enough resources on the Net to find contacts ANYWHERE in the World. This WITCH has had enough - I am a Witch, and Proud of it, and to hell with anyone that dares call me a Wiccan.

indigo shift - 09/23/98 02:51:17

Comments:
now, you see, this is why i'm an athiest... granted, i've always been fascinated by religion and philosophy, but when the money gets put where the mouth rants, it all comes out the same. of course, religion is a matter of choice and some of the nicest people i know are wiccan, hindu, even mormon ( if you can believe that... :) ). the problem always lies in the old tug of war: "my way is the right way! you're not serious enough! you ca l THAT devotion?!?!?" tee hee... as for wiccans, it's no secret that they're not fans of the judeo-christian mythologists. your website amused me to know end, however. you people sound like catholics bashing southern baptists! whenever i need a good laugh, i come back to this page. mostly because my eyes play tricks on me: whenever i see the words "trad wiccan" they blur and become "trad catholic"... it's even more amusing to see the buttons for replying purposes...the one directly below this text as i'm typing says, "take that, you elitist jerks!" sure, you can put things like that on your webpage, because you're...RIGHT. others, of course, are WRO G. gives me the giggles... bashing other members of your own religion... how...christian of you. ;-P indigo

lagu - 09/21/98 03:36:00
My Email:*yaright*

Comments:
Well I Believe you must really have alot of time on yor hands. Did you ever think mabye instead of insulting people for there unknowing you could help them learn more. You are truly misguided.if you are so upset why not Write your own book! I feel you see atention and you get it by bashing others. I have been wiccan for 6 years now. And for all reading this YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE anitiated into Wicca. This is a large misconception (yes i am a bad speller).depending on the coven you join , some may anitiate you into there coven but not into the religion. Ignore this webpage and learn more from people whome have practised all there lives its not hard to find people like that Trust me. read AS MANY books that you can get your hands on do not read just one and ay your wiccian read at LEAST Ten then contomplate and disscuse it with your family let them read the books. If you have to hide it from your parents you mst think somthigs wrong with it RIGHT :) well i have babled enough Bye (oh my spelling is bad because I am french canadian and do not speak english alot )

phaedra - 09/19/98 00:35:55
My URL:i won't bother
My Email:berg0177@uidaho.edu

Comments:
i agree with you that traditional wicca needs to be preserved, but i also feel that if you are simply making an issue out of a problem and not doing much to solve it, then you, too, are also a part of the problem. to quote a wicca who came from a very str ng as well as old tradition, "we learn to endure with patience people whose opinions are not like ours. we may even have to listen to others speak offensively about us, while we marvel that they understand so little and yet can speak so articulately. thos who are offensive to others have not found harmony within themselves or any harmony in the world...we, as witches, have plenty of opportunity to remain patient and indulgent rather than condemning of others who think differently. ...it is because of our uperior knowledge...that we can afford to be very tolerant of, and even smile at, offensiveness." but at least you are tongue in cheek about it.

Rev. Dione Crane - 09/18/98 03:57:37

Comments:
I can understand and agree with your point of view and I support what you have to say. However I do not support or commend how you say it.Wicca isn't a youth subculture with new school Pagans and it is a shame that it seems to have become so. And I think ou would agree that the main tenet whether traditional or non traditional of Wicca is do what thou wilt yet harm none-Posting up a hate site against those who need more guidance I am failing to see how it fits in with the Rede. I do not support the tone r feel of this page and yet I am a Traditional High Priestess !!. Showing maturity and respect for the Ancient Craft not to be so callous to other members and a "holier than thou" attitude would not go astray, not only within the pagan community but n the world. I wish you all the best .

Delina - 09/17/98 05:01:50
My URL:http://members.aol.com/ladydelina/wicca.html
My Email:ladydelina@aol.com

Comments:
Ok I'll admit it, I've read Cunningham and Ravenwolf, and (shudder) I've even recommended them to some people. I've been open about my religion for 12 years, and I've had more people ask me to teach them then I can count! 99% of them were people who wou d read a few books, wear a pentacle from Spencers, and then quit. I can spot them from 20 feet now, so those I send down cunningham's way. The ones who are serious I teach myself. Do I mind the fluffy bunnies? No. To be very honest I'd rather people se them and ignore me and mine. I'd rather they see us as hippies than demons. The fluffies do have their uses, usually they are the most vocal about Wicca. Not a bad thing! Besides they usually don't stay around long enough to do anything about anyway, nd they rarely teach their un-traditions. So just as there are Holiday Catholics, we have our Spencer Wiccans. Oh and a comment about the page, you may want to say a little more about finding traditional Wicca then "go seeking", that just usually frustr tes people enough to go to Barnes & Noble. How about a links page of people who are using your banner? Bright Blessings, Delina Storm

Scarlet - 09/03/98 19:31:51
My Email:apeak@hotmail.com

Comments:
I totally agree with you on the act of reclaiming the old "high" magick of the wiccan tradition. I have attended festivals in the past, where there were a lot of "party pagans" and they really get under my skin. I studied for a long time to gain the kno ledge of my spiritual path, and some people are making us look like a bunch of hippies from the 60's. Being an trad initiate has its hardships, and I think that a lot of the "party pagans" should stop and look at what they are worshipping. If that makes any sense. Just thought I'd lend my 2 cents...long live the trads. Blessed BE, Scarlet

- 09/03/98 12:47:13

Comments:
For the first time since I started my path, I am ashamed to call myself Wiccan. Yes, I read books by HIM. It was a starting point for me. But do not assume it was the end for everyone. I realize there are people in it for the sake of saying HEY LOOK A ME! But many of those who you consider bunnies have made life a little less complicated for the rest of us. Isn't it better to concentrate on important issues rather than worry about job loss, or your child being harrassed because you walk a different ath than your nosy neighbors? Not everyone who claims to be Wiccan is deserving of the title, but don't lump everyone into one catagory either. Its the equivelent of calling us Satanists because we are not Xtian.

Enchant - 08/29/98 02:03:46
My Email:bciafre@aol.com

Comments:
i have read some books on wicca and do not consider myself a full fledged wiccan at all...i want to learn...i cherish the religion not destroy it...i want to learn the old ways but have no access besides books...so what do you expect? but blessed be anyway..

Deianeira - 08/27/98 21:23:46
My URL:http://members.xoom.com/Deianeira

Comments:
Thank you Thank you! This page is wonderful. I heartily believe in the preservence of traditional Craft practices! No more airy-fairy fluffy bunnies please! I've been harassed by other 'eclectic' witches for being a know-it-all just because I defend the raditional Craft and I choose to associate with them. Lets unite and help the loose cannons find a better path and stop making ours look like a bunch of hippie garbage! Blessings Deianeira

The Glastig - 07/28/98 15:41:24
My URL:http://www.oocities.org/SoHo/Atrium/1547/
My Email:gp_pixy@hotmail.com

Comments:
(((((((((((The Editors)))))))))))) Okay, i know that my site is looking a little fluffy right now but that is because it can be a little hard to think that people might take what you seriously put up as serious. Anyway, i am really happy with you because i hae been suffering among too many fluffy bunnies. ((I love the whack-a-bunn game.)) I also like the page about why there is a bit of Cunningham bashing going on around here. Okay, I have yet to read Cunningham, but I did read the intro to "To Ride a Silver Broomstick" and almost fell over choking and gagging from all the sacrin! (you can't even call it sugary sweetness, it's more like neutrasweet, you know, that chemical that gives lots of nice ppl headaches and tastes nothing like sugar?) I found it neauseating! And so i didn't even get b yond the intro... I'm not a Wiccan, but if ppl want to make up a religion they should atleastmake up a name for it too. I don't want to hear, "Well won't the Goddess protect me?" when I mention the Greater Pentagram, and "work" is not about rainbow smiles and candy. This is a serious thing, and if you are going to take the name, you should at least know how to actually do stuff. Okay, so maybe i'm a little perverse, but I hate to hear, "This is the only way" OR "You can do it how ever you like." It is all just creating and using a telesmic image, and I think that should be explained when you tell someone, "Well, it doesn't have t be done exactly like this." Otherwise, the person is likely to think, "Well, I can do whatever I want." And about all those bunnies that say, "You shouldn't do magic like love spells or anything that will harm another." I see nothing against sending an E heric Elemental after someone. They earned it. Just do your wards and all, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Same thing with love spells. You can do it, but remember that you did it, not them. Any affection you get out of it is not their love but your own self worship, yadda yadda. You have to deal with the consequences. Anyway, now that i have don't some ranting, i think i will go tone down the fluff ((which was never that bad really)) on my website, now that i know there are ppl who might b able to apreciate it. Thanx.

Christy B. - 07/27/98 01:49:26
My Email:LunarSword@aol.com

Comments:
In this past year I have tried endlessly to find information on Wicca, and what have I found? SCOTT CUNNINGHAM. I even tried talking to people online, saying "I am seeking the truth, help me out." what do they tell me? "there are some really helpful boo s by Scott Cunningham." I don't know where to look but I'm trying desperately NOT to become a fluffy bunny (as you put it) who thinks because they saw the Craft 10 times makes them a qualified witch, nor do I want to feel I know a religion based on books If anyone can help me out, tell me about the Old religion, I would greatly appreciate it!

Raven - 07/22/98 14:10:16
My URL:http://members.aol.com/Raven50/raven.html
My Email:Raven50@aol.com

Comments:
I agree with this. I have read many books, and now looking back upon them, I cant really find much use to me. Cunningham's follow up to Solitary practitioner takes about making your own tradition and picking out dieties and how to celebrate your holiday and on and on. Well wait, thats not practicing the old ways is it. Thats creating something new...

Magickbear - 07/21/98 19:59:15
My Email:Magickbear@aol.com

Comments:
I came across this site, while searching for websites on Wicca. I have read a lot of books, several of which were written by Scott Cunningham. Although, they were informative I did not jump up and begin living my life the way it was stated that I should I believe that people should follow their heart when making a decision that SHOULD effect the rest of their lives. I don't think the "fluffy bunnies" should be whacked, they are misguided and/or are in need of attention and probably feel that if they t ll people they are Wiccan they will get what they are looking for. Wicca is a religion which should not be taken lightly and/or used to gain attention. It is real and a way of life for alot of people, including me. Brightest Blessings to All!!!!!!!!!!!!

skye - 07/21/98 17:42:49
My Email:skye107@hotmail.com

Comments:
I just want to say that I was looking for some books on Wicca, and Scott Cunningham's book was the only one that appeared to be what I was looking for. However, I was extremely disappointed with it, it wasn't what I expected. But what else can one do? It' not like I could just look in the phone book for covens to join, or people to question to see if Wicca is right for me. Or is it wrong for me to be interested in the religion because I wasn't born into it? Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Frea Windwalker - 07/19/98 13:43:24
My URL:http://members.xoom.com/Moon_Glade
My Email:moon-glade@juno.com

Comments:
Greetings, Recognized the Theban text on another page and thought it might be interesting...Was I right! I must say that the thought revolted me at first, but then, I got over the shock that hit me. I think that Wicca should stay traditional, but, book companies d n't stay around if they don't sell books! Being a Seeker (as in Seeker of the Silver Moonbeam) High Priest for several years now, I have grown to understand that all people are not made to be Wiccan. Too many people have come to me asking to be members f the coven, and they don't have what it takes to cut it. Self-discipline, desire, or even need. I see the problem inherent in the want of today's generation to shock their parents and friends. Example: On girl, which will remain nameless, came up to me and asked to be a member, she didn't know the least bit about the mysteries. Claimed she did b/c she had read "Silver Broomstick" and a little Cunningham. But she was quick to put the "Pagan and Proud" umper sticker on her car! It has gotten to the point that I am ashamed to call myself a Wiccan. I have become a pagan that follows the Old Ways. That's one of the things that I've been trying to get across to people. I want my religion back, NOW!! BTW, can I edit your graphic so it looks better on my page? I'll keep the same color scheme, just fix the formatting a little (size, type of image, etc.) May Knowledge and Love Always Come Your Way, Frea Windwalker

Kayla - 07/10/98 11:18:33

Comments:
So when will the bumper stickers be available? I'd like to have on my vehicle by Samhain. Kayla

Dyonas Lleu ap Arianrhod - 07/02/98 03:31:52
My URL:http://Caer Arianrhod

Comments:
Way to GO! Applause!

Smily - 07/01/98 18:51:51
My URL:Oh sure, like I'm *THAT* crazy
My Email:smiling_sam@hotmail.com

Comments:
With all the damned White light, crystal toting fluff bunnies out there spewing 'White Light and Love' is Wicca, it's about time someone put up a Site to set some of those Cunningham carbons straight!

Dan - 07/01/98 18:50:14

Comments:
I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this place turns out. You realize, of course, that you might just be running an apathy test on the pagan internet community, and the results might not be very pretty? I thought so. Go for it!

A Trad Witch - 07/01/98 18:49:31
My URL:Pagan Place
My Email:nah, I don't *think* so

Comments:
You GO girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) you know who

Go Back to the Keep Wicca Traditional Page