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18 DENNIS REIMER 19 after having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 20 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. CORGAN: 23 Q State your name, please, sir. 24 A My name is Dennis Reimer. 25 Q Mr. Reimer, what is your business, profession, or DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
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1 occupation? 2 I work for the Oklahoma State Bureau of 3 Investigation. 4 Q And in that regard, what do you do with the Oklahoma 5 State Bureau of Investigation? 6 A I work in a laboratory that's located in Talequah, 7 and my duties there are to analyze items of physical 8 evidence. 9 Q And do you have any supervisory responsibilities, Mr. 10 Reimer? 11 A Yes, sir, I do. I'm also supervisor of that 12 laboratory. 13 Q Mr. Reimer, would you tell us how long you've been 14 employed with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation? 15 A It'll be 17 years the 1st of September. 16 Q And during that time, have you always been employed 17 in the capacity that you are now as far as laboratory 18 analysis? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q Mr. Reimer, would you tell us your educational 21 background? 22 A I have a bachelor of science degree that I received 23 from what is now called Southwestern State University. 24 It's located in Weatherford, Oklahoma. My major was in 25 chemistry.
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1 Q All right, sir. And could you tell us what training 2 or experience you have for the job that you now hold? 3 A My first six months of employment with the Bureau was 4 in a training capacity. 5 I've also had further training from the Federal 6 Drug Enforcement Administration from the Federal Bureau of 7 Investigation in the analysis of different kinds and types 8 of physical evidence. And I've also had training from 9 several private concerns. 10 Q All right, sir. Do you have any particular area of 11 specialization in your laboratory analysis? 12 A Me personally? 13 Q Yes. 14 A I work in a variety of different areas. I do drug 15 analysis. I work -- have worked in the past on serology 16 cases. 17 And I do trace types of analysis and also arson 18 analysis, blood alcohols, alcoholic contents. I do a lot 19 of different things. 20 Q When you say "trace analysis," what do you mean by 21 that? 22 A The examination of paint, hairs, fibers, glass, 23 soils, things of that nature. 24 Q Tell us what training or experience you have in 25 regard to trace analysis?
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1 A Most of my training in this area has been on-the-job 2 type training that I obtained from reading different 3 professional publications and talking with other 4 individuals both inside my agency and outside the agency 5 who do this type of analysis and just working with those 6 types of samples. 7 Q Mr. Reimer, in the past, have you had occasion to 8 testify in the District Courts in the state of Oklahoma? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And could you tell us approximately in your 17 years 11 on how many occasions you would have done that? 12 A Be between four and 500 times? 13 Q And during those times, have you been recognized as 14 an expert witness by the courts of the state of Oklahoma? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And have you also been recognized by the District 17 Courts here in Washington county as an expert witness? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, at this time, we'd 20 ask that Mr. Reimer be so recognized. 21 THE COURT: So reflect. 22 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Now, Mr. Reimer, did you have 23 occasion to do some analysis in regard to this case? 24 A Yes, sir, I did. 25 Q Would you tell us what you did, please, sir?
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1 A The types of analysis I did in this particular case 2 all concerned glass samples. 3 And I compared several unknown glass samples 4 that I received to some known standard glass samples that 5 were submitted along with those. 6 Q All right, sir. Would you tell us in working with 7 glass and making that analysis what you do and what you're 8 trying to accomplish in making that analysis? 9 A The principle way to make glass comparisons is you 10 make measurements of some of the properties of glass and 11 compare them -- compare the unknowns with your known 12 samples. 13 When you're working with plate-type glass, you 14 can start out by measuring the thickness of those glass 15 plates. 16 And you can also look at the glass both visually 17 and with the aid of ultraviolet light to see the different 18 colors that may be there. 19 In particular, with ultraviolet light, certain 20 kinds of glasses fluores a different color; and you can 21 compare those colors to see if they're the same. 22 You can also make particular comparative 23 analysis on the density of the glass and a property that 24 is called refractive index. 25 And that is a property of how glass bends light
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1 as it travels from the air into the glass. 2 Q I believe you said that in regard to this case, you 3 received some known samples; is that correct? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q And how did you receive those items? 6 A They were given to me by Lynette Lee who also works 7 in the laboratory there in Talequah where I work. 8 Q And would you tell us what known samples you've 9 received? 10 A I was given a sample which was indicated to be a 11 glass sample from a broken -- from the screen of a TV, 12 which was apparently broken; a glass sample from a mirror 13 that was located in the living room, which was broken; and 14 a glass sample from a patio door window, which was 15 apparently broken. 16 And at a later time, I was given the entire 17 patio door window. 18 Q Now, in regard to your known samples from the TV, the 19 mirror, and the patio door, do those bear any type of 20 laboratory number? 21 A Yes, sir, they do. 22 Q And in regard to the glass mirror, what would that 23 number be? 24 A The mirror? 25 Q Yes, sir.
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1 A That would be item number 22 on Lynette Lee's 2 original report. 3 Q How about the known glass from the TV? 4 A That would be item number 21 on Lynette Lee's 5 original report. 6 Q And the known glass from the patio door? 7 A That has two different item numbers. The first was 8 the sample that was submitted, and it has item number 28 9 on Lynette Lee's original report. 10 And then at a later date when the entire 11 window -- broken window was submitted, it has item number 12 70 on her original report. 13 Q So then if -- as far as numbers between you and Mrs. 14 Lee, those would be the same numbers; is that correct? 15 A That's correct. I did not reassign numbers to them. 16 Q Mr. Reimer, I'll hand you what's been admitted as 17 State's Exhibit Number 57. 18 Ask you, sir, if you recognize that as being the 19 original report that you've referred to of Miss Lee that 20 bears those numbers. 21 A Yes, sir, it is. 22 Q You've told us that you received three known samples 23 from three different sources. Did you receive any unknown 24 samples? 25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q Could you tell me how many you received, from where 2 they came, and their numerical designation, please? 3 A Originally, I was given from Mrs. Lee the known 4 samples that I mentioned and four others -- well, five 5 others. 6 Originally, there were four others; and then 7 there was another. 8 The original four that she gave me were items 9 number 23, number 24, number 25, and number 29 on her 10 report. 11 Then, at a later date, I did get some more 12 samples that I received from Doug Perkins who works in the 13 Oklahoma City laboratory were some samples that he had 14 removed from item number 55 on her original report, which 15 was a ball-peen hammer. 16 Q And did you designate those samples as some number? 17 A I designated them as 55-A since they were samples 18 removed from that hammer. 19 Q In regard to the first four unknowns -- 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q -- that you received, would your numbers also bear 22 the same number as Miss Lee? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q Let's talk, first of all, if we could, Mr. Reimer, in 25 regard to unknown sample number 23.
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1 In that regard, can you tell us where that 2 particular sample came from or the information you were 3 given concerning it's whereabouts? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q What was that? 6 A The information indicates that number 23 is glass 7 fragments from the living room carpet in front of the TV. 8 Q And did you have occasion to perform analysis on that 9 particular sample? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Tell us what you did and the conclusions you reached, 12 please. 13 A I examined that glass by the procedure that I 14 previously described here this morning. 15 I found that it was consistent with the glass 16 from item number 21, which was a known sample of glass 17 from the TV screen. 18 Q Did you have occasion to examine item number 29? 19 A Yes, sir, I did. 20 Q And what was that item, and where did it come from? 21 A Item number 29 was a piece of glass from the living 22 room sofa. 23 And I found that it was also consistent with 24 item number 2, which was the glass from the broken TV 25 screen.
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1 Q Did you have occasion to examine -- I'm sorry. Did I 2 interrupt you? 3 A No, sir. 4 Q Did you have occasion to examine item number 24? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q And where did that come from? 7 A Item number 24 are glass fragments from the living 8 room carpet near the patio door in the living room. 9 Q And what did you determine as to item number 24? 10 A That that glass is consistent in physical 11 characteristics to glass in item 28 and 70. 12 Q And what would those items be? 13 A That is the broken patio door window. 14 Q And did you have occasion to examine item number 25? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q And what was that? 17 A Item number 25 were glass fragments from brick ledge 18 in the -- apparently in the southeast corner behind the 19 patio door in the living room. 20 Q And what did you determine as to that? 21 A And that glass was consistent to the glass in items 22 28 and 70, which was the broken patio door window. 23 Q Now, did you ever receive any known samples other 24 than from the mirror, the TV, or the patio door? 25 A Anymore known samples?
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1 Q Yes. 2 A No, sir. 3 Q And did you perform any other analysis, knowns versus 4 unknowns, with the exception of the items you received 5 later from Mr. Perkins? 6 A I made an additional examination of the glass 7 in item 70, the entire broken window pane to make a 8 determination to try to make a determination of the 9 force that broke that window, from which side that force 10 came. 11 Q Do you know where item number 70 is today? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q Where is it? 14 A It's right here sitting on my lap. 15 Q And would you produce that at this time, please. 16 A (The witness complied with the request). 17 Q Mr. Reimer, I'll hand you now what you previously 18 handed me and has now been marked as State's Exhibit 19 Number 58 for identification purposes. Would you state 20 for the record what that is, sir? 21 A Yes, sir. This is a paper sack, and within the paper 22 sack is a manila-type folder. 23 And within that folder is the broken remains of 24 a panel of glass which have been taped together with gray 25 duck tape.
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1 Q Now, could you tell us, Mr. Reimer, when you received 2 item number 70 the condition that it was in? 3 A Well, it was a, it was a -- as I described, in this 4 paper sack; and the pieces of glass were in the manila 5 folder. 6 And the pieces were held together by gray duck 7 tape; and they were in the approximate shape and size of a 8 small glass pane, maybe 8 by 10 inches approximately. 9 Q Now, since receipt of that, that exhibit has been 10 various places; is that correct? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And as a result of handling, is that glass obviously 13 different than when you first saw it? 14 A It's somewhat distorted right now from what I 15 originally saw, yes, sir. 16 Q And how is it different now? 17 A Some of the glass pieces have become detached from 18 the tape; and they are just in there, you know, floating 19 around unattached to the tape. 20 And the tape seems to have sagged. Maybe the 21 sample has been on the edge like this, and the tape has 22 sagged. 23 And the pieces adhering to them are just kind of 24 crushed together into one smaller mass. 25 Q And we're not suggesting that that's happened other
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1 than just through handling and mailing and those type 2 things. 3 A That's correct. 4 Q Now, when you got item number 70 in the condition 5 that you've told us about, what did you do in regard to 6 that analysis of it? 7 A I also used samples of that glass to compare to the 8 other known samples that I had worked with or had been 9 given to me. 10 And I also made some observations on the broken 11 edges of those pieces of glass because it's possible to 12 ascertain by looking at those broken edges which -- from 13 which side of the glass pane that the panel was applied -- 14 that the force was applied that originally broke the 15 panel. 16 And I looked at numerous edges of the broken 17 pieces of that glass to make that determination. 18 Q Now, Mr. Reimer, if I were to bring the board over to 19 you where you could have a the chart there, would you 20 be able to demonstrate to the jury or explain how it is 21 you can do an analysis and make determinations about where 22 the force came from on a piece of glass? 23 A Yes, sir, I can. 24 Q Would that be helpful in explaining to the jury what 25 you do and how you can make those determinations?
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1 A Yes, sir, I think that it would. 2 (THE WITNESS LEFT THE STAND AND WENT TO 3 THE DRAWING BOARD) 4 A I'll draw you several different pictures to show you 5 what happens when a pane of glass is broken and the 6 observations that can be made to determine from which side 7 that that glass pane was broken. 8 You have a pane of glass, and it's struck 9 somewheres (sic) on there and it's broken. 10 What we will see is from the point of impact, 11 you will have several breakage lines coming out from the 12 point of impact. And these particular cracks are called 13 radial cracks. 14 You'll also have some secondary cracks that form 15 which will run from the radial cracks, radial cracks in a 16 manner like this. These are called concentric cracks. 17 The way to determine from which side of the 18 glass panel the force was applied is by looking at these 19 edges on these cracks. 20 And I'll draw a piece -- a picture here that 21 would be a magnified view if you took a piece of this 22 glass and turned it on its edge and looked at it. 23 And if you do that, you would see marks on 24 there they're called rib marks -- that run in this 25 fashion.
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1 These rib marks on a radial crack -- when you 2 view these rib marks on a radial crack, you can tell the 3 force came from this direction when making this view. 4 Now, on a concentric crack, the rib marks will 5 be just opposite. You can tell that the force came from 6 this direction. 7 So on a broken panel, you get as many pieces as 8 you can, look at them all, look at these rib marks on the 9 edge to make a determination of which side the glass was 10 struck by the force that broke it. 11 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Thank you, sir. 12 (THE WITNESS RETURNED TO THE STAND) 13 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Mr. Reimer, then in regard to 14 State's Exhibit Number 58, item number 70, did you perform 15 that type analysis and examination? 16 A Yes, sir, I did. 17 Q Now, as you make that analysis and examination and 18 you look for the rib marks, do you do that with unaided 19 visual examination, or do you use some sort of assistance? 20 A Both. 21 Q And is that what you did in this case? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q And what did you determine after your analysis in 24 regard to your examination of State's Exhibit Number 58, 25 item number 70?
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1 A Well, these pieces of glass were held together on one 2 side by the gray duck tape which I described. 3 And from my observations, I determined that the 4 force that broke this particular pane of glass came from 5 the side of the glass which is opposite of the tape. 6 Q So if we had testimony that the tape were applied to 7 the inside portion of the glass, then you're telling us, 8 the force came from the outside. 9 A That's correct. 10 Q Now, can you also tell us as a result of your 11 analysis the condition of the object that it was taken 12 from? 13 Assuming this was a door that it was taken from, 14 can you tell us if the door were open or closed or how far 15 it was open or closed? 16 A No, sir, I can't. 17 Q You can only tell us the side from which the force 18 was applied; is that correct? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Now, can you tell us as a result of your examination 21 the type object used to break the glass? 22 A No, sir, I can't. 23 Q And why not? 24 A There's just no means to determine that, that I'm 25 aware of.
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1 Q Now, Mr. Reimer, in regard to item State's Exhibit 2 Number 58, where has that been since you received it in 3 your laboratory? 4 A Which item? 5 Q Pardon me? 6 A Oh, this item? 7 Q No. 8 A I'm sorry. 9 Q State's Exhibit Number 58. 10 A Where has it been? 11 Q Yes. 12 A Well, it's been there in the laboratory in Talequah 13 where I work. 14 And we received a request to ship it to another 15 person in California to make observations on it. And it 16 has been to California and then sent back to us. 17 Q So it's either been in your laboratory or some other 18 laboratory. 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And it would be -- would it have been subject to the 21 other safeguards of evidence that all other pieces of 22 evidence have when they come into your laboratory? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, at this time, we 25 would move the admission of State's Exhibit 58.
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1 MR. CARLSON: We've no objection. 2 THE COURT: Fifty-eight allowed. 3 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Mr. Reimer, excluding item number 4 55-A, would that then have completed your analysis as to 5 all the glass you received in this case? 6 A Yes, sir, excluding that particular item. 7 Q Let's talk for a second about item number 55-A. 8 Would you tell us, sir, what that is and how you came into 9 receipt of that? 10 A The sample that I've labeled item 55-A are very small 11 pieces of glass that I received from our evidence property 12 room in the Oklahoma City lab in May of this year. 13 And those small pieces of glass were removed 14 from item 55 in Lynette Lee's s original report, which was a 15 ball-peen hammer. 16 And after I received those small glass 17 fragments, I made an examination on two of them and 18 compared those two fragments to the other known samples 19 that I had received previously. 20 Q Can you tell us where item 55-A is today? 21 A It's right here in this sack. 22 Q Would you produce that at this time? 23 A (The witness complied with the request). 24 Q Mr. Reimer, I'll hand you now what's been marked as 25 State's Exhibit number 59 for identification purposes.
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1 Ask you, sir, to examine that and state for the 2 record what that is. 3 A This is a small paper sack. Within this paper sack 4 is a very small plastic dish we call a petri dish. Within 5 that dish are two small paper bindles. 6 One contains two glass fragments I analyzed. 7 The other contains four small glass fragments which were 8 so small that I could not analyze them. 9 Q So you received a total of six glass fragments? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q And, if I understand correctly, you analyzed two of 12 the six. 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q And you didn't analyze the other four because they 15 were too small. 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q Now, in regard to the two that you did analyze, can 18 you give us some sort of idea of their size? 19 A They're very small. One is a sliver of glass which 20 would probably be less than a 1/32 of an inch long. 21 The other is a small -- When you look at it 22 under a microscope, it looks like a small disk or just a 23 small chip of glass; and it's also less than a 1/32 of an 24 inch in diameter, maybe even as small as a 1/64 of an 25 inch.
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1 Q Now, in regard to those two pieces that you did 2 analyze, what, if any -- first of all, what did you do; 3 and what, if any, determinations did you make? 4 A Well, I made comparisons of these two pieces of glass 5 with the other three known samples of glass, looking again 6 at the color of the glass under ultraviolet light and 7 comparing their densities and refractive indexes. And I 8 made a comparison in that manner. 9 Q And what did you determine as a result of that 10 comparison? 11 A That these two fragments of glass are consistent with 12 the sample of glass from item number 28, which was a 13 sample of glass from the broken patio door window. 14 MR. CORGAN: I believe that's all. 15 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 16 CROSS-EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. CARLSON: 18 Q Mr. Reimer, did I understand you correctly to say 19 that the force which broke the glass came from the side 20 opposite the test? Is that correct? 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q And counsel said that we represented to you that the 23 tape was on the inside, then the force, obviously, came 24 from the outside. 25 A Well, he just used that as an example. I don't know
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1 if he was telling me that as a matter of fact. 2 Q Okay. That was his question, was it not? 3 A Yes, sir. He said if, if someone told me that tape 4 was on the inside, then my testimony would be that the 5 force did come from the outside. 6 Q Let's talk for a minute. With regard to the 7 comparison of glass, there's several ways to do it. One, 8 you can compare glass based upon color, correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q You can compare it based upon thickness, correct? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q Compare it based upon refractive index, correct? 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q You can compare it based upon dispersionion density, 15 correct? 16 A Well, just "density" would be a more correct term 17 than "dispersion density." 18 Q All right. Comparative density? 19 A Yes, sir, comparative density 20 Q All right. 21 A -- is a particular technique I use. 22 Q I'm sorry? 23 A I said comparative density is a particular technique 24 that I use. 25 Q And there also is -- you can compare it based upon
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1 elemental composition, can you not? 2 A That's possible in some circumstances. 3 Q And by "elemental composition," what we mean is that 4 you take that glass and you break it down and you can tell 5 what elements that glass is made up of; isn't that 6 correct? 7 A Yes, sir, that's possible. 8 Q And would you agree with me, sir, that that, the 9 elemental breakdown, the elemental composition of the 10 particular glass is the most accurate way to compare 11 glass? 12 A No, sir, I wouldn't agree with that at all. Matter 13 of fact, I think that's the most inaccurate way to do it. 14 Q That would be your opinion. 15 A Yes, sir. That is my opinion. 16 Q Now, there are certain types of glass, are there not? 17 There's flat glass and, say for instance, container glass. 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q And by virtue of flat glass, we know that it possibly 20 may be made in a certain particular way; isn't that 21 correct? 22 A Pardon? 23 Q If flat glass may be made in a certain particular way 24 as compared with container glass. 25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q And by virtue of flat glass, flat glass may be made 2 by way of what we call float process. 3 A That's correct. 4 Q And there are other ways to make flat glass, are 5 there not, also? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q Now, would you agree with me, sir, that some curved 8 glass will originate as a flat piece of glass, was 9 originally made as a flat piece of glass? 10 A Well, yes, sir. I would agree with that. 11 Q And the reason that we know that is because sometimes 12 when we make a curved piece of glass, we'll take a flat 13 piece of glass and then it may be heated and bent or 14 molded, correct? 15 A Yes, sir. I think most automobile glasses are made 16 that way. 17 Q All right. Now, with regard to you said that you 18 used the method of a refractive index in regard to -- and 19 I want to direct your attention to the particular two 20 pieces of glass that was represented to you as coming from 21 somewhere on the hammer; is that correct? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q What did you read the refractive index at, sir? 24 A What did I read it as? 25 Q Yes. Did you assign a reading to it?
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1 A Yes, sir, I did. 2 Q And could you tell us what that reading was? 3 A The most accurate reading I was possible -- it was 4 possible for me to determine with the equipment and means 5 that I have is the refractive index was somewheres (sic) 6 between 1.514 and 1.516. Probably, probably pretty close 7 to 1.515. 8 Q And did you assign a reading to the comparative 9 density index whenever you looked at it? 10 A No, sir. No, sir. 11 Q You could not do that? 12 A No, sir. 13 Q But it's possible to do that, is it not? 14 A Yes, sir, it is possible. 15 Q Now, with regard to these two pieces of glass that 16 you looked at, they were visible to the naked eye; isn't 17 that correct? 18 A Just barely, yes, sir. 19 Q In other words, if we lay them out here on the table, 20 we could look at them and see them, correct? 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q So you don't need anything microscopically to see 23 those two pieces of glass, correct? 24 A Well, it sure helps; but it's possible to see them 25 without any microscopic aid.
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1 Q Now, the fact that we have two pieces of glass that 2 you say may be comparable so far as refractive index or so 3 far as comparative density, that certainly doesn't mean 4 that they're the same piece of glass, does it, sir? 5 A No, sir. It doesn't necessarily mean that they came 6 from the same piece of glass; but they're just consistent 7 in those properties and could have. 8 Q And what we're saying is that there are also other 9 pieces of glass that would also have that same possible 10 refractive index and comparative density, correct? 11 A Yes, sir. Out there, there's probably some more 12 glass with those same properties. 13 Q Now, from your experience, if a person were to break 14 a piece of glass out of, say, a door, from your 15 experience, it's very possible that glass would get on his 16 clothing; isn't that correct? 17 A Yes, sir, that is a possibility. 18 Q With regard to these two particular pieces of glass 19 that you actually examined, the two small ones which were 20 represented to you from the hammer, there's no way for you 21 to tell whether they were curved glass or flat glass, 22 could you, from the samples? 23 A No, sir, not those particular samples. They're re just 24 very, very small chips. 25 Q And we have established that, for instance, a curved
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1 glass can come from stuff like dinnerware from a table 2 glass, from anything, a car window, anything like that, 3 correct? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q With regard to State's Exhibit Number 58, could you 6 tell me when that item was shipped to California, please, 7 sir? 8 A If you want to bear with me a minute, I can't tell 9 you off the top of my head. There may be some record 10 here. 11 Q Okay. We'll wait for you. 12 A All right. We sent items on the 22nd of May, 1991, 13 and on the 27th of June, 1991; and I'm not sure which time 14 it went. 15 Q Did you not have a notation of -- I'm sorry. 16 A I'm trying to see if there's a list of items here 17 that were sent on those two occasions. 18 No, sir. I apparently cannot determine from the 19 file here when that went or even factually if it went. It 20 was just my impression that it was sent. 21 You may have to get Mrs. Lee -- Miss Lee back to 22 interpret her notes. Perhaps she can tell you. 23 Q Do you know when these items came back to you? 24 A No, sir. No, sir, I don't. That was just recently 25 within the last several weeks; but what day, I don't
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1 remember. 2 MR. CARLSON: Bear with me one moment, Your 3 Honor. That's all we have, Judge. 4 THE COURT: Redirect. 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
6 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. CORGAN: 8 Q Mr Reimer, can you tell us if State's Exhibit Number 9 59, your item 55-A, can you tell us if the glass from that
10 source came from either the mirror or the television?
11 A Yes, sir, I can tell you.
12 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor. It's 13 already been asked and answered and identified.
14 THE COURT: I don't believe so. You may 15 answer. 16 A Yes, sir, I can tell you. 17 Q (By Mr. Corgan) And what can you tell us in that 18 regard? 19 A That it definitely did not come from either of those 20 two sources.
21 Q You can exclude those sources. 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q Now, you told us that you were able to make somewhat 24 of a determination of the refractive index of item 55-A. 25 Were you also to make -- or did you make a
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1 determination of the refractive index of the known glass 2 from the patio door? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q And what did you find that to be? 5 A It would be in that same range that I quoted which
6 would be 1.514 to 1.516, most probably 1.515 as best I
7 could determine.
8 Q Now, in making that refractive index determination,
9 does the size of the glass have any effect on that? -
10 A Well, you need to work with very small particles to
11 do that.
12 Q Now, I believe you were asked is it possible in
13 breaking a window for glass to get on a person's clothing;
14 is that correct?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Are you telling us that that would happen in every 17 case? 18 A It's a possibility. It does not mean it will happen 19 in every case. 20 MR. CORGAN: I believe that's all. 21 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
22 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. CARLSON: 24 Q Mr. Reimer, we do know what there will be other 25 glasses with that same range of refractive index that the
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1 patio door has out there, don't we? 2 A Yes, sir. They're out there somewheres (sic). 3 Q All right. There's a multitude of types of glasses 4 out there all over the country. We know that, don't we? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q And some of those will have the same refractive index 7 in that exact same range as the patio door; isn't that 8 correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And I think you've answered it; but when somebody 11 breaks a door, it's something that you, as a lab person, 12 if there's -- say they break a door, it's something that 13 you certainly look for and see if there's any glass on 14 their clothing; isn't that correct? 15 A Yes, sir. That's a possible examination to make. 16 Q And you've done that before, have you not? 17 A Yes, sir, I have. 18 Q You've found glass before; isn't that correct? 19 A Yes, sir, I have. 20 MR. CARLSON: That's all we have, Your 21 Honor.
22 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. CORGAN: 25 Q Mr. Reimer, did either the television glass or the
DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA
OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
1 mirror glass have that same refractive index? 2 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor. Asked 3 and answered. 4 THE COURT: Sustained. It's been answered. 5 Q (By Mr. Corgan) You're not telling us you did any 6 examination of glass on the clothing of -- 7 MR. BUCHANAN: Objection. Leading, Your 8 Honor. 9 THE COURT: Sustained. 10 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Did you do any examination of
11 clothing in this case? 12 A No, sir, I did not. 13 MR. CORGAN: That's all. 14 MR. CARLSON: That's all we have, Your 15 Honor. 16 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Reimer. Step
17 down. 18 MR. CORGAN: Mr Reimer, I'll need to retain
19 item number 59. 20 THE COURT: Next witness. 21 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, I'll-need five
22 minutes. If we could take maybe a real short break now. 23 THE COURT: All right. Let's take a 24 10-minute recess then, please, ladies and gentlemen. 25 (A RECESS WAS TAKEN, AFTER WHICH THE FOLLOWING
DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA
OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
lh1998-99, 2000