23 JAMES OTTE 24 having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole 25 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
255 1 DIRECT EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. CORGAN: 3 Q State your name please, sir. 4 A James Otte, O-T-T-E. 5 Q Mr. Otte, what is your business, profession or 6 occupation? 7 A I'm a senior agent with the Oklahoma State Bureau of 8 Investigation. 9 Q What is a senior agent? 10 A It's the -- I guess the highest rank that you can 11 reach as an agent before you got into supervisory rank. 12 Q All right, sir. How long have you been employed with 13 the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation? 14 A Just under 10 years. 15 Q And would you tell us, Mr. Otte, your educational 16 background and training please, sir? 17 A Yes. I was with the police department, Webster 18 Grove's police department in Saint Louis County back in 19 Saint Louis, Missouri, for over 10 years. I was trained 20 through the Saint Louis police academy consisting of 16 21 weeks dealing with all facets from patrol procedures on 22 through crime scene investigations. I attended various 23 classes while working as an officer in Saint Louis, 24 in-service type training. One course was a forensic 25 pathology class I attended at the Saint Louis University. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
256 1 I attended the Saint Louis Community College and got an 2 associates degree in criminal justice. I then attended 3 Tarkio College in Saint Louis and received a bachelor's 4 degree in criminal justice management. I joined the 5 Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation in 1981 and hired 6 on as an agent and worked as a resident agent in Idabel, 7 Oklahoma, before moving to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and being an 8 agent out of the Tulsa regional office. I've received 12 9 weeks of O.S.B.I. training through their academy here upon 10 arriving in Oklahoma, and various schools throughout my 11 term here with the Bureau, various in-service training, 12 one of which was a two week homicide investigation school 13 put on by the University of Louisville. 14 Q Mr. Otte, during your time and experience as a law 15 enforcement officer, have you had occasion to both be 16 involved in and to work homicide investigations? 17 A Yes, I have. 18 Q Now, when I say be involved in and work, do you make 19 a distinction as to those two? 20 A Yes, I do. 21 Q And what distinction do you make? 22 A With the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation we 23 have what is known as a case agent. The homicide 24 investigation of that particular case within our agency is 25 assigned to a particular agent and he is a case agent. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
257 1 could be assigned the case agent, be responsible for that 2 particular homicide, or I could assist another agent who 3 is a case agent, assist him on running leads on what he 4 may be a case agent and work on maybe a homicide he has 5 assigned as well as work on my own cases. 6 Q Can you tell us how many homicides you have been -- 7 have been involved in in the past? 8 A That would be real hard to estimate. I work 9 predominantly homicide. I guess 70 percent of my time is 10 homicide investigation the entire 10 years I've been with 11 the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. I'd have to 12 number into the hundreds if not thousands of different 13 homicides I've had some variation of contact with. 14 Q Mr. Otte, how is it that you came to be involved in 15 this case? 16 A I was contacted at my residence by the Oklahoma State 17 Bureau of Investigation communications center advising me 18 that there had been O.S.B.I. assistance requested in 19 Bartlesville. 20 Q Tell us a little bit about the O.S.B.I. as far as how 21 it operates and how your agency would get involved in a 22 case of the type issues as far as your jurisdiction. 23 A The O.S.B.I. is set up as an assisting agency. That 24 is we don't have original jurisdiction in many cases. If 25 a crime happens, for us to step in and take over, for us DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
258 1 to get involved in a case it takes the request of another 2 law enforcement agency. We have to be requested by either 3 a police department, district attorney's office or 4 attorney general, something like that. We cannot open a 5 case on a private citizens' request. So we have to have a 6 request from another law enforcement agency and we will 7 come in to assist them to whatever degree that requesting 8 authority desires. It could be just a couple of technical 9 assistance, do a couple of interviews and then get out, or 10 conduct the entire investigation. It ranges the entire 11 gamut of assistance. 12 Q So obviously there was some request that got you 13 involved, is that correct? 14 A Yes, there was. 15 Q Okay. Upon getting that call, what did you do? 16 A I contacted by supervisor, Joe Collins, the inspector 17 with the northeast regional office of the O.S.B.I., and he 18 instructed me who to contact to go with me and advised me 19 that he would go to the scene and instructed me to respond 20 to the request. 21 Q And did you do that? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 Q And when did you arrive in Bartlesville? 24 A It was right around four a.m. in the morning, give or 25 take a few minutes. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
259 1 Q And Mr. Franchini came as well, is that right? 2 A Yes, he did. 3 Q And he arrived in a separate vehicle? 4 A Yes. I met him in Broken Arrow. We both live just a 5 couple miles apart. I met him there and he was in his 6 vehicle and I was in mine but we came up together. 7 Q What about Mr. Collins? 8 A I heard him on the radio some distance back and he 9 arrived shortly after I did. 10 Q Now, I assume that you're the case agent in this 11 case? 12 A Yes, I am. 13 Q Tell us -- You've told us generally about case agent, 14 but tell us specifically in regard to this case what have 15 been your responsibilities as a case agent? 16 A Well, as a case agent not only in this case but any 17 case agent for any case, it's our responsibility to 18 coordinate O.S.B.I. efforts with whatever the requesting 19 authority, whatever the police department is doing, to 20 coordinate it so we're not both running on the same 21 things, to make sure, as far as our agency is concerned, 22 the leads that are assigned to us or what we pick up get 23 done, that the proper paperwork or interviews, if they're 24 done, that the proper paperwork is submitted and more or 25 less coordination and checking the case to make sure that DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
260 1 our responsibilities are met as far as what to do in the 2 case. 3 Q Now, in regard to your responsibilities in the case, 4 I assume that there was other personnel from the O.S.B.I. 5 involved in this case, is that correct? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q Can you just name some of the people for us and the 8 way in which they were involved? 9 A Well, Agent Franchini was obviously involved in the 10 case as being -- working my crime scene. I believe Deputy 11 Inspector Dave Page helped conduct some interviews and 12 transported some evidence. I believe Agent John 13 Hunnington and I believe possibly Inspector Joe Collins 14 helped transport some evidence as well as numerous people 15 from the O.S.B.I. laboratories analyzing evidence 16 submitted to the various labs. 17 Q And what would be your capacity in regard to the 18 laboratory work and that type of thing? 19 A Answer any questions they have as far as what they're 20 looking at or if they need other pieces to go along to 21 look at the evidence. For example, we talked about 22 earlier known samples. If they need some known samples to 23 look at some stuff that they have it would be my 24 responsibility to see that they have what they need to 25 work with and to get their final reports together with the DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
261 1 investigative reports and so forth and provide all of that 2 to the prosecutorial authority. 3 Q Now, Mr. Otte, you mentioned that a part of your 4 responsibilities would be coordination with local law 5 enforcement I guess so there wouldn't be, in effect, 6 duplication of effort or that you wouldn't be working on 7 the same areas, is that correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q Did you, in fact, have that type of coordination in 10 this case? 11 A Yes, we did. 12 Q And would you tell us how that was accomplished and 13 what was done in that regard? 14 A Well, at the very outset upon arriving we met with 15 the authorities from Bartlesville Police Department, Chief 16 Holland, and talked about the case, who was going to be 17 doing what. I guess job assignments or tasks were given 18 out such as Agent Franchini and Steve Gardella. 19 Throughout the case we had numerous meetings, going over 20 leads that needed to be done or areas that needed to be 21 checked, what department would be responsible for handling 22 what areas or what leads and seeing that they were 23 covered, so to speak. 24 Q Now, I believe that you told us that you arrived at 25 the scene here in Bartlesville about four a.m. on June the DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
262 1 12th of 1990, is that correct? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Tell us what you did once arriving at the scene. 4 A Well, as soon as we arrived at the scene I meet with 5 Chief Holland of the Bartlesville Police Department and 6 Steve Gardella. I mainly met with them. There were 7 numerous other officers present, but my main talk or 8 conversation was with Chief Holland and Steve Gardella. 9 They kind of very briefly told us what they had and that a 10 lady had been found beaten in her house and that she had 11 died and that they had some problems with it. And at that 12 point they said we want to walk you through the scene and 13 see what you think. 14 Q So did you walk through the scene? 15 A Yes. Agent Franchini, myself, Chief Holland and 16 Steve Gardella walked through the scene, did a walk 17 through as has been referred to, through the scene, just 18 walking through and looking at the scene to see what we 19 had. 20 Q And what observations did you make at that time? 21 A Well, as I walked into the -- we entered through the 22 door next to the garage doors and through the utility room 23 and came in through the kitchen into the dining area. The 24 first thing that I noticed that really struck me was the 25 large amount of blood in the dining room. On the floor, DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
263 1 on the walls, on the table, the furniture, and even on the 2 ceilings in the dining room. We kind of walked around the 3 edge of that area and -- 4 Q And why did you walk around the edge of it? 5 A Trying to stay out of the major portion of the blood. 6 Q Okay. Please continue. 7 A Walked through the doorway into the living room or 8 den area where the television set and the couch was. 9 Looked at that room and stepped over towards the door 10 leading out of the den onto the patio. 11 Q What, if any, observations did you make there? 12 A Well, as I stepped through the den I obviously saw 13 the television set all broken out, the mirror above the 14 television set was broken, the door was standing ajar and 15 the pane of glass was broken out of the door. 16 Q All right. Please continue. 17 A I became concerned at that point about the scene and 18 I immediately began to discuss with them our legal right 19 to be there at the scene. 20 Q And did you receive some assurance about being there? 21 A Yes, I did. I discussed that due to the scene being 22 there, some of the things that I had seen about the scene, 23 by this time they had expressed that they were having 24 problems with it, what they were being told that with Mr. 25 Allen -- DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
264 1 MR. CARLSON: Your Honor, we'd object to 2 the hearsay nature of what the officers are telling him. 3 MR. CORGAN: Judge, it's not -- if I might 4 respond. It's not offered for the truth of the matter 5 asserted but rather what this officer was acting upon as 6 he made his conclusions and went about this task. 7 THE COURT:. Overruled. I assume that's the 8 extent of his lead in to your question. 9 MR. CORGAN: Yes. 10 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Continue. 11 A Due to the fact that Mr. Allen lived in the house 12 and he could be a suspect, I was concerned whether we 13 needed a search warrant for the residence or not, and I 14 ascertained that a signed consent to search had been 15 obtained. 16 Q Now, Mr. Otte, based upon your observations at that 17 time, what concerns did you have about the scene? 18 A Well, the first impression I got when I walked in and 19 saw the blood was there was too much scene. There was too 20 much blood, there was too much blood on the walls, on the 21 floor and all of that to be just a simple burglary, 22 someone surprising a burglar. 23 Q Now, why? 24 A Usually if you surprise a burglar he attacks you and 25 a person goes down and he's going to be out. The scene DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
265 1 looked more, with the amount of blood, that there was a 2 lot of violence there rather than just striking someone to 3 get out of the house. Almost like that the goal was 4 rather to inflict on the victim rather than to burglarize 5 the house. I don't know that I can describe it very -- in 6 the right terms, but there was just so much scene that it 7 was a very -- first indication was is that the victim 8 here, that they went in for the victim or the attack on 9 the victim was on the victim, not just as an accidental 10 bumping into the victim or her surprising them, and that 11 there was so much violence that very likely the victim 12 would have known her assailant. 13 Q What else concerned you about the scene? 14 A Things didn't look right. The television was broken 15 sitting on a stand but yet you could see the stand on the 16 carpet hadn't been moved. It struck me that a screen of a 17 television set is very thick and would be very difficult 18 to break, but yet it hadn't been moved from where it 19 obviously was. 20 On the wall behind the television was a 21 broken mirror, but yet the television was not moved. The 22 mirror had been broken. There was nothing laying on the 23 floor that had obviously been thrown across a room, struck 24 the mirror and bounced back out on the floor. So I 25 couldn't identify anything obviously in there that would DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
266 1 have broken these items, and the TV not being moved. I 2 tried to determine whether or not the door ajar was that 3 way when they first arrived because the position of the 4 door bothered me. 5 Q And why did that position bother you? 6 A Well, the position of the door bothered me because it 7 was not opened far enough. to walk out. It was only open, 8 oh, a foot and a half. It would be a very -- there was 9 carpet there to where it wouldn't swing on it's own. It 10 took some kind of pressure to move it one way or another, 11 and it would be very unlikely that someone would run out 12 it and the door close behind them, but yet it's not open 13 wide enough. So the position of the door bothered me. 14 The glass being broken out on the door and I'm being told 15 that the storm door was locked bothered me. 16 Q Anything else cause you concern about the scene? 17 A Well, the books from the bookshelf bothered me. 18 Q Why? 19 A The books from the bookshelf were in a big pile at 20 the end of the bookshelf at the base coming out from the 21 bookshelf and laying kind of in the door way. And I 22 thought in my mind if there's a fight and you fall against 23 a bookcase how could the books be right there by the 24 bookcase if there is a person standing there. The books 25 would have to hit the person and leave a void right by the DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
267 1 bookcase because they couldn't fall through that person, 2 but all of the books were piled up against a bookcase all 3 right out there in the floor like they had been pulled off 4 and fell at the feet of someone rather than being knocked 5 off. 6 Q So you're making a lot of assumptions at that point? 7 A Yes, I am. 8 Q You don't -- you didn't know obviously what had 9 happened, but you're making assumptions? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q Now, based on those assumptions did you get with law 12 enforcement and say, hay, let's forget about this suspect 13 outside? 14 A No, I did not. 15 Q Why not? 16 A I didn't know whether the suspect that did this for 17 whatever reason may have still be outside running around. 18 I didn't know who the suspect was at that point. I still 19 had -- anybody could be the suspect at that point in my 20 mind. 21 Q What did you do then? 22 A At that point I received the information about the 23 hammer. 24 Q Tell us about that. 25 A Officer Mason came in and I learned that the hammer DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
268 1 was suppose to be in the attic. At that point I walked 2 out into the attic, and I don't recall whether it was 3 Chief Holland or Detective Mason or myself who pulled the 4 ladder down or whether the ladder -- I think the ladder 5 might have already been down, and went up into the attic 6 to check this hammer's location, to see if we could locate 7 it. 8 Q And were you successful in that? 9 A Yes, I was. 10 Q And you've had an opportunity to see these pictures 11 that have been introduced? 12 A Yes, I have. 13 Q And would those pictures show the scene, and I'm 14 referring to State's Exhibits 49 and 50, and would those 15 show the scene before you got the hammer and showing it in 16 its location before those items were moved? 17 A Yes, they do. 18 Q Now, after finding the hammer and the towels, what, 19 if anything, did you do with them? 20 A Well, upon locating them up in the attic we took the 21 photographs of them, we measured where they were laying in 22 the attic, and then I picked them up and put them into a 23 paper sack. 24 Q Now, were they in the same sack or a different sack? 25 A No, they were both sacked separately, the towels in DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
269 1 one sack and the hammer in another sack. 2 Q Did you put any type of covering around them other 3 than the sack? 4 A I don't recall whether I stapled the sack shut 5 partially or not. I don't recall exactly how the sack was 6 sealed. 7 Q After placing those items, the hammer and towels, 8 into the sacks, what was done with those items? 9 A I retained those. 10 Q And did you ultimately do something with them? 11 A Yes. I secured them in my vehicle until I got back 12 to my office the next morning. We were there at four 13 o'clock in the morning, so that following day after we 14 were done. I guess it was some time after five o'clock on 15 the 12th in the evening I guess it was. When we left 16 Bartlesville and went back we stopped by our office and I 17 placed both these items in our evidence room. 18 Q And after you placed those items, the hammer and 19 towels, in your evidence room, did you have further 20 contact with them? 21 A Only the next day to go in the evidence room while 22 Dennis was preparing stuff that he had seized to go to the 23 lab and to point them out to Dennis and tell him to take 24 those to the lab also. 25 Q Now, Mr. Otte, did you have occasion to have any DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
270 1 contact in the chain of custody of the chain of evidence 2 with any articles of clothing? 3 A Yes, I did. 4 Q And tell us the facts and circumstances surrounding 5 that, please. 6 A I believe it was a day or so later on the 14th, I was 7 at the Bartlesville Police Department and speaking with 8 Officer Mason, and I received from him a pair of shorts, a 9 T-shirt and a pair of tennis shoes. 10 Q And upon -- 11 A And I believe a chair. 12 Q What type chair? 13 A Dining room chair without the arms. A regular dining 14 room chair. 15 Q And upon receipt of those items, what did you do with 16 those? 17 A I transported those back to the office of the 18 O.S.B.I. that same day, gave the clothing items to 19 Inspector Joe Collins to transport to the O.S.B.I. lab the 20 following day because he was headed that way, and I placed 21 the chair into the evidence room at the Tulsa office. 22 Q At some later point did you do something then with 23 the chair? 24 A Yes. I transported the chair to the O.S.B.I. 25 laboratory in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
271 1 Q And when did you do that? 2 A I don't recall the date. It was approximately a 3 month or so later. 4 Q And until you transported it from the evidence room 5 in Tulsa to the lab, where was that item, that chair? 6 A It was secured in the Tulsa evidence room or evidence 7 vault. 8 Q Okay. Other than the hammer and towels, the chair 9 and the clothing that you've referred to, have you had 10 custody of any other type items of evidence? 11 A I've had the custody, I believe, of the personal 12 affects, rings, contact lens, some of the personal affects 13 that were listed on the medical examiner's stuff. 14 Q And what was done with those items? 15 A I transported -- well, a number of the items I 16 transported to the Tahlequah lab and was present while 17 defense counsel was able to view them. On another 18 occasion I transported the contact lens -- well, I 19 packaged it up and shipped the contact lens via Federal 20 Express to Mr. Peter Barnett in California. 21 Q Now, Mr. Otte, have you had occasion, as a result of 22 your involvement in this case, to interview the Defendant, 23 Stephen Lee Allen? 24 A Yes, I did. 25 Q And can you tell us, sir, when you did that and where DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
272 1 that took place? 2 A That was at the Bartlesville Police Department on the 3 early morning hours of the 12th of June. I really can't 4 give an exact time other than about 5:30, six o'clock. 5 Q Who was present at that interview? 6 A Stephen Allen, Eddie Mason and myself. 7 Q And prior to your interview of Mr. Allen did you 8 advise him of his rights in any manner? 9 A Yes, I did. 10 Q And how did you do that? 11 A I advised him verbally of his rights according to the 12 Miranda decision. We also had a Bartlesville Police 13 Department rights and waiver form that he was allowed to 14 read and sign. 15 Q Now, other -- was there any type of record made of 16 that particular interview? 17 A My notes and my written report of that interview, 18 yes, sir. 19 Q Was it taped in any manner? 20 MR. CARLSON: Objection, leading, Your 21 Honor. 22 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. 23 A No, it was not. 24 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Why not? 25 A Immediately upon entering the interview room Mr. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
273 1 Allen asked if the interview was being taped. I told him, 2 no, did he want it to be taped, and I can't remember if he 3 answered out loud or nodded his head or what, but I can't 4 remember how he answered, but I got -- I got the 5 impression he didn't want it taped so I did not tape it. 6 Q So you did not tape it? 7 A No. I did not tape it. 8 Q Now, during the time that you interviewed Mr. Allen, 9 did he appear able to respond to your questions? 10 A Yes, he did. 11 Q Did he appear to understand your questions? 12 A Yes, he did. 13 Q Did he appear to be delusional in any way? 14 A No. 15 Q Did he appear to be hallucinating? 16 A No. 17 Q Did he appear to be incoherent? 18 A No. 19 Q Did he appear to be in any type 20 MR. BUCHANAN: Your Honor, I'd object to 21 the leading nature of these questions. 22 THE COURT: Sustained. 23 Q (By Mr. Corgan) What did you notice about his 24 demeanor and appearance as you interviewed him? 25 A He was quiet and calm. You could tell he had been DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
274 1 through a rough night. You could tell that he had been 2 through some upsetting stuff, but he was calm. You 3 couldn't tell whether it just because he missed his sleep 4 or whether he was greatly upset, but he seemed to be 5 collected. 6 Q And did you then talk to him? 7 A Yes, I did. 8 Q What did he tell you? 9 A I went through what he did that day all the way 10 through, I believe, starting with when he left for work 11 that morning. He told me that he went to work and got 12 there at 7:30 or 7:50, I believe. I don't recall the 13 exact time he told me when he arrived at work. He worked 14 that morning. At lunch time he went out and walked in 15 town and got some type of greeting card or something from 16 the card shop and returned to work. He got off at 5:00 or 17 very shortly thereafter. He went straight home driving 18 his blue Oldsmobile. 19 When he arrived home his wife, Sandra, was 20 at the house. She had some pork fritters, I believe it 21 was, and something else, I think possibly a salad fixed 22 for him, ready for him. She was ready for work and they 23 had very little time together because she was leaving for 24 work and he was coming in. And she went on to work and he 25 ate. I believe he fixed french fries to go along with it DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
275 1 or something, and then he went out and mowed part of the 2 yard, took care of the child that was there, came back in 3 the house, cleaned up. I believe he bathed the child. I 4 don't recall which one first, the child getting bathed or 5 him taking a bath. Whatever. 6 That then he left and went over to Dillards 7 to see his wife. He saw his wife at work with the child. 8 She held the child. She got busy so he went down another 9 portion of the mall, stayed there a little while. When he 10 came back his wife had a customer. He went over and 11 bought some things, I believe some Arimis or 12 antiperspirant stick or something from one of the other 13 counters and returned to where his wife was working. 14 Talked to her a little bit about a strange phone call that 15 she had gotten there at Dillards that night, conversed a 16 little bit. He then told her he was going to go by church 17 and get a drink, and she asked him to get her a drink. 18 He left and went -- left Dillards and went 19 to the church and stopped by the church. Went into the 20 church office, picked up some papers with his being 21 involved as treasurer or something for the church. After 22 picking up the papers he went back out, got in his car and 23 went to the Sonic on the west side of town. He got three 24 drinks, and when he got the three drinks he drove back to 25 Dillards to check to see if his wife's car was still DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
276 1 there, to see if she had gotten off work yet, and didn't 2 see her car so he passed right on through the lot and 3 returned to his residence. 4 And as he pulled into their driveway of his 5 residence and his headlights flashed across the backyard 6 patio portion of his residence, he saw a figure change 7 directions. He got out of the car and went in and found 8 his wife. Left the child in the car. When he found his 9 wife he went over to her, he called to her, went over to 10 her, picked her up or held her. Her arm went up over his 11 shoulder. He then later backed down. He stepped into the 12 other room just a foot or so and saw the TV and the mirror 13 and the door and the books and then he stepped back over, 14 and I don't remember whether he wiped his hands first or 15 whether he saw the hammer and slammed the hammer and then 16 wiped his hands, but he wiped his hands and he saw the 17 hammer and hit the counter with the hammer. 18 He then thought, oh, now I've got blood on 19 the hammer. He then took the hammer and the paper towels 20 up into the attic and put them in the attic. He came back 21 downstairs and called 911 and said he was on the phone 22 with 911 until the police officers arrived. 23 Q Did he tell you what time he left Dillards that 24 evening? 25 A I'm sure he did, but I don't recall the exact time. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
277 1 He told me. I think it was about 8:30, but I'm -- 2 MR. CARLSON: Your Honor, I'm going to 3 object unless he can give us -- I've let it go with what 4 he thinks and he's supposing various things. I mean, I 5 tried to keep from objecting in that regard. 6 THE COURT: I don't know which time he's 7 talking about also. 8 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Okay. The first time he was at 9 Dillards after visiting with his wife prior to going to 10 the church, do you recall if he told you what time he 11 left? 12 A I don't recall what time he gave there. He gave me 13 various times, but I don't recall what that was, no, sir. 14 Q You say that he told you he went where from Dillards? 15 A From Dillards he went to the church and picked up the 16 papers. 17 Q Do you recall if he told you what time he was at the 18 church? 19 A A minute or two after nine o'clock or right at nine 20 o'clock. 21 Q Did he tell you how he was able to determine that? 22 A He said he saw a clock, I believe, in the church 23 office. 24 Q Did you have any discussion with him as you 25 interviewed him if he was familiar with or he knew when DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
278 1 his wife, Sandra, normally got off of work in order to 2 drive home? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And what did he tell you in that regard? 5 A That she got of f work or the store closed at nine and 6 would normally get home 9:15 or 9:20, give or take a few 7 minutes. 8 Q Did he tell you what time he got home that evening? 9 A I believe he stated that he got home at 9:25, give or 10 take a few minutes. 11 Q Was there any discussion about where [his son] was or 12 what happened to [him] during the time after he arrived 13 home? 14 A Yes. He told me that he had left [his son] in the front 15 seat of the car when he went in to check the house for his 16 wife, and that after the police had come he told me that 17 he had Mr. Herring take [his son], take care of [him]. 18 Q Well, was there any discussion about, as he 19 approached his wife there on the floor, about shaking her? 20 A I believe he said he shook her at one point, yes. 21 Q Did you have any discussion about how hard that was 22 done or the force with which he shook her? 23 A I don't believe we discussed the force, no. 24 Q Did he describe the hammer to you? 25 A No. Other than a small hammer. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
279 1 Q Did he tell you where it came from or how he was 2 familiar with the hammer? 3 A The only think I remember is that it was their 4 hammer, it belonged in the house. 5 Q Tell us what he told you he did with that hammer. 6 A That he put it in the attic. 7 Q And did he do anything with the hammer prior to 8 putting it in the attic? 9 A I remember him talking about wiping it off with the 10 towels at that point when he was talking about the hammer, 11 and it wasn't clear from my discussion with him whether he 12 was wiping the hammer or wiping his hands. 13 Q Did he tell you why he was wiping something? 14 A There was blood on it. 15 Q And then what was done with those towels? 16 A They were put in the attic with the hammer. 17 Q I believe you say he called 911, he told you that? 18 MR. CARLSON: Objection, leading, Your 19 Honor. 20 THE COURT: You may answer. 21 A Called the police. I don't know whether he said 911 22 or the police. 23 Q (By Mr. Corgan) And did he tell you when in 24 reference to hiding the hammer he did that? 25 A Afterwards. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
280 1 Q Mr. Otte, do you see the person in the courtroom 2 today that you had occasion to interview and talk to the 3 early morning hours of June the 12th, 1990? 4 A Yes,I do. 5 Q And for the record, would you point to that person 6 and describe how they're dressed today? 7 A He's wearing a blue suit, blue shirt. He's wearing 8 glasses and he's sitting at the defense table closest to 9 the rail. 10 MR. CORGAN: Might the record reflect the 11 witness has identified the defendant, Stephen Lee Allen? 12 THE COURT: It may reflect. 13 MR. CORGAN: That's all. Thank you, sir. 14 --------------------------------------------------- 15 CROSS-EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. CARLSON: 17 Q Mr. Otte, did I understand you correctly you said 18 since you've been in Oklahoma you have been involved in 19 thousands of homicides, is that correct? 20 A In one degree or another. I'm just estimating a 21 number. Could be over a thousand. 22 Q Would you estimate closer to two thousand probably 23 from your experience? 24 A It's impossible to get -- I'd say probably over a 25 thousand. Whether it's close enough to two thousand or DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
281 1 not I don't know because I have no way of verifying it 2 Q You've been here since 1981. That's correct, is it 3 not? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Let's do something for a minute. We know that since 6 1981 that would be about 10 years. 7 A That's correct. 8 Q And we know that there's 365 days in a year. We know 9 that, don't we? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Times 10 years, and you would agree with me that that 12 would be 3,650 days in ten years? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q All right. And if you have a thousand homicides and 15 we cut it down to a thousand just for purposes of our 16 calculations, if we have a thousand homicides and we 17 divide that into 3,650, would you agree with me that a 18 homicide every 3.65 days? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q I'm sorry, sir, but do you have any statistics that 21 we have a homicide every 3.65 days in the last 10 years in 22 Oklahoma? 23 A No, sir. 24 Q Now, let's talk about the method in which you 25 interview a particular individual. And the way that's DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
282 1 conducted is that in this particular case you talked to 2 the individual but you don't write down your questions, do 3 you? In other words, you don't write down the questions 4 that you ask a particular individual. 5 A No, I do not. 6 Q And what you do is you make a determination when you 7 talk to that individual what you're going to write down, 8 isn't that correct? 9 A As far as my notes, yes, sir. 10 Q All right. And no one else was taking any notes in 11 the room, were they? 12 A Not to my knowledge. 13 Q Okay. And you never allowed Steve to turn around and 14 read the particular notes that you took, did you, sir? 15 A I was sitting at one side of the table and he's 16 sitting across the table from me. I'm writing them in 17 front of me. I guess he'd have to read them upside down, 18 but he could see them. 19 Q And those were handwritten notes, is that correct? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q All right. Now, let's talk about some of the things 22 that Steve told you. Steve told you that he went to the 23 Sonic, didn't he? 24 A Yes, he did. 25 Q Okay. And there was a receipt that verified that DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
283 1 Steve was at the Sonic, isn't that correct? 2 A Yes, there was. 3 Q And Steve told you that he went by the church and he 4 was there a few minutes after nine. I think 9:05 was 5 actually what you said, wasn't that correct? 6 A It was a couple minutes of nine o'clock. I don't 7 think it was right on nine,. I don't recall whether it was 8 9:04 or 9:05. 9 Q All right. And from the Sonic he said he went by 10 Dillards and when he was going by Dillards he said he saw 11 an individual named Mark, didn't he? 12 A Yes, he did. 13 Q And so we'll be able to determine what time that Mark 14 was getting of f, won't we? 15 A We should, yes, sir. 16 Q. All right. And whenever Steve was telling you times, 17 he wasn't telling you specific times, he was telling you 18 within certain time frames. Isn't that a correct 19 statement? 20 A That's correct. We weren't talking exact times. We 21 were trying to nail it down as best we could, but we 22 weren't talking exact times. 23 Q So when you gave us this time of 9:25, you're not 24 sure that Steve really told you 9:25. It's somewhere 25 within that range. Isn't that a fair characterization of DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
284 1 his testimony? 2 A If my notes read 9:25 that's what he told me, but 3 we're talking in that range as far as the conversation. 4 Q We're talking give or take some minutes, are we not? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q Now, and Steve also told you that he was at Dillards 7 at around 8:30 the second time, didn't he, when he went 8 down past the pet store and came back to see his wife? 9 Didn't he tell you that? 10 A I believe it was 8:30. 11 Q All right. And we know that he went by and his wife 12 was busy and we know that he then told you that he went 13 over and he bought some deodorant, didn't he? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And we know that we have a receipt that says that 16 Steve bought deodorant at 8:33, isn't that correct? 17 A I don't recall the time on it, but we have a receipt 18 with the time on it, yes, sir 19 Q Okay. It's the one introduced into evidence here. 20 Here's a copy of it. And it says 8:33, does it not, sir? 21 A 20:33, yes, sir. 22 Q And Steve told you that that night when he first got 23 home that he mowed the lawn, and we're able to verify that 24 he mowed the lawn, didn't he? 25 A Yes, sir. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
285 1 Q As a matter of fact, from what Steve has told you, 2 sir, with regard to the particular times and where he went 3 that night, we've been able to check those out, isn't that 4 true? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q And they verify with what Steve told you, isn't that 7 correct? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q You made certain assumptions that you walked through 10 the house that night, and those assumptions -- and I want 11 to go over those and talk to you about those for just a 12 moment. With regard to the books and the bookcase, I want 13 you to give me your first assumption, sir. 14 A As I stated earlier, the first thing that struck me 15 about the bookcases was that there was no void in the 16 middle of the pile where someone would have been standing 17 or something as the books fell down around them; that the 18 books covered the entire floor in front of the bookcase 19 without a void where a body or the body of a human 20 standing there or falling -- falling against the bookcase 21 would have prevented them from falling right there in that 22 spot. 23 Q You're not telling us though, are you, sir, and based 24 on that assumption, that something could not have been 25 thrown on those books and those books have been knocked DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
286 1 out there? You're not telling us that, are you? 2 A I don't know how the books came out of there. 3 Q That's my point. Tell me what other assumptions you 4 made about the books other than you talked about a void. 5 Did you make other assumptions about the books? 6 A There were a number of shelves on the bookcase where 7 the books obviously came from, not just one shelf, but yet 8 the shelves were not broke. 9 Q Well, you're not telling us, are you, sir, that the 10 shelves would have to be broken for those books to have 11 come out of there, are you? 12 A No, I'm not. 13 Q What other assumptions did you make about the books? 14 A That's about all. 15 Q Now, with regard to the television set, you said that 16 you made an assumption, and you did make some assumptions 17 about the television set, isn't that correct? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q And you made an assumption that that particular 20 television set was not moved. Was that your statement? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q It was sitting on a stand, was it not? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q And that particular stand had sort of a little raised 25 place around it, does it not, which the television set sat DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
287 1 down into. Do you recall that? 2 A I don't recall that. 3 Q You wouldn't quarrel with me if I said that though, 4 would you? 5 A I wouldn't quarrel about it. I should say I can't 6 remember. 7 Q All right. You're not telling us that that 8 television set, the screen could not be broken without it 9 being moved, are you, sir? That's not what you mean to 10 tell us. 11 A I would find it hard to believe that that screen 12 would be broken without moving the TV. 13 Q What if the back of the TV was sitting against the 14 wall and you hit the screen, something hit the screen? 15 You would agree with me that it would break the screen but 16 the TV or stand might not have any place to go? Wouldn't 17 you agree with that, sir? 18 A If it had been against the wall, yes, but it wasn't. 19 Q Now, you got there at four o'clock approximately, is 20 that correct? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q Do you know how many people had been in the house 23 before you got in there? 24 A Quite a few. 25 Q I agree with that. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
288 1 MR. CORGAN: Your Honor, I'm going to 2 object to counsel testifying. 3 MR. CARLSON: I'll withdraw that. 4 MR. CORGAN: That's twice. 5 Q (By Mr. Carlson) So we agree there was quite a few 6 people in there. 7 MR. CORGAN: There again, Your Honor, 8 counsel is testifying. 9 THE COURT: Sustained. 10 Q (By Mr. Carlson) We don't know and you don't know 11 whether that particular TV was moved before you got there, 12 do you, sir? 13 A No, I do not. 14 Q Now, I think you said that you made an assumption 15 with regard to the mirror that was broken and it was on 16 the wall, is that correct? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q All right. Now, you're not telling us that something 19 couldn't have been thrown and hit that mirror and broke 20 it, are you? 21 A No, sir. 22 Q I want to hand you a photograph and ask you if you 23 recognize this photograph, sir? 24 A Yes, sir. It's a photograph of the television set in 25 the family room. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
289 1 Q And would you hold it up so the ladies and gentlemen 2 can see it. And wouldn't you agree with me that the 3 picture tube of that particular TV is against the wall? 4 A No. I can't tell from the angle of this shot whether 5 it's against the wall or not. There's a cable that runs 6 down behind it here and it looks like it goes behind it. 7 Q Wouldn't you agree with me -- 8 A I can't tell whether that's all the way against the 9 paneling or there's some space between the paneling. I 10 can't tell from this photo. 11 Q Wouldn't you agree with me it's very close to the 12 wall then? 13 A Yes. 14 MR. CARLSON: Your Honor, we'd move 15 introduction of this particular photograph. 16 THE COURT: Is it marked? 17 Q (By Mr. Carlson) Now, tell me what assumption you 18 made, sir -- 19 THE COURT: Excuse me. You moved the 20 introduction. Is it marked? I don't know if we have a 21 number on it. 22 MR. CARLSON: Yes, we can put one on it. 23 THE COURT: What's the number? 24 MR. CARLSON: Defendant's 5. 25 THE COURT: Any objection to Defendant No. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
290 1 5? 2 MR. CORGAN: No, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: Defendant 5 allowed. 4 Q (By Mr. Carlson) Tell me what other assumptions you 5 made about the mirror on the wall, sir. 6 A The mirror itself was hanging level. It wasn't 7 cocked one way or another,, yet the mirror was broke. I 8 observed that and the glass was broke -- whatever -- there 9 was nothing laying on the floor immediately out in front 10 of the mirror that appeared to have been the object that 11 broke the mirror. 12 Q Well, you're not telling us though, sir, from that 13 assumption that some object that broke the mirror would 14 have to be laying there, are you? 15 A No, sir. 16 Q Okay. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't expect that, 17 would you, when there's been a struggle? 18 A You said an object and then a struggle. If there 19 would be a struggle then I got to talk mirror and 20 television set. If an object -- yes, I would expect the 21 object to be laying somewhere in the vicinity. 22 Q Well, okay. Let's -- since we're going to assume for 23 a minute let me assume along with you. That if I throw a 24 crowbar, if I throw a poker at you and I miss you and I 25 hit that particular mirror and I break that mirror and the DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
291 1 poker falls down and then I in turn knock you down and you 2 get hold of the poker or if I knock you down and then I 3 pick the poker up and hit you, the poker might not be 4 there. 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q My point, sir, we can assume any number of scenarios 7 as to how that mirror got broken. Wouldn't you agree with 8 that? 9 A Well, yes, sir. 10 Q And we can assume a lot of things as to how things 11 got broken in there. Don't you agree with that? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q All right. So the mere fact that you walked through 14 there and you made certain assumptions, those assumptions 15 may be well based or they may not be well based. That's a 16 fair statement, isn't it? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q You retrieved the hammer from the attic, is that 19 correct? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q And when you retrieved the hammer from the attic you 22 did not have any gloves on, did you, sir? 23 A I believe I did, but I can't say for certain. 24 Q Let me ask you, sir, do you recall testifying at the 25 preliminary hearing in this matter? DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
292 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q And that was back in March, is that correct? 3 A I forget the date. About that time, yes, sir. 4 Q I want to read you at page 36, counsel, line 7 and 8 5 or I'll start with line 3. I'm sorry. This question was 6 asked of you, sir: 7 "QUESTION: And that would have been the 8 same way with the hammer? 9 ANSWER: That's correct. 10 QUESTION: Now, you are the one that physically 11 picked those up? 12 ANSWER: Yes, I was. 13 QUESTION: You were not gloved at the time? 14 ANSWER: No, I was not I don't believe. I 15 don't believe I was, but I can't recall. I 16 might have been." 17 So you don't know whether you were gloved at that 18 particular time. 19 MR. CORGAN: Same testimony. We're going 20 to object. 21 MR. CARLSON: Well, here, Your Honor, he 22 says I don't believe I was. No, I don't believe I was. 23 Then he goes on to say I can't recall. 24 THE COURT: Sustained to the form of the 25 question. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
293 1 Q (By Mr. Carlson) Fair characterization is that you 2 do not recall? 3 MR. CORGAN: It's been asked and answered. 4 THE COURT: You may answer. 5 A I don't recall. 6 Q (By Mr. Carlson) All right. Thank you. Now, at the 7 time that you picked up those gloves you also picked up 8 the paper towels along with them, isn't that correct? 9 A At the same time? 10 Q Well, shortly thereafter. 11 A Yes. 12 Q And the paper towels were not wet, were they? 13 A I don't believe so, no. 14 Q Were you ever furnished with a crime scene log, sir, 15 of who was in that crime scene before you arrived there 16 that night? 17 A No, I was not. 18 Q Were you ever furnished with a photographic log of 19 what photographs were taken, had been taken prior to your 20 arrival? 21 A No, I was not. 22 Q Were you aware as to whether or not there was any 23 video or any photographs taken prior to your arrival at 24 the scene there that night? 25 A I believe there was, but I can't say for certain. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
294 1 believe there was. 2 Q Okay. It has come to your attention that there has 3 been or was a video taken prior to your arrival, isn't 4 that correct? 5 A I think there was, yes, sir. 6 MR. CARLSON: That's all we have, Your 7 Honor. Thank you. 8 THE COURT: Redirect. 9 ------------------------------------------------------- 10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 11 BY MR. CORGAN: 12 Q Mr. Otte, when you went to this crime scene or you go 13 to any other crime scene, why is it that you make 14 assumptions? 15 A Trying -- 16 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor. All 17 we did was touched on his assumptions, we didn't ask why. 18 And we touched on the assumptions he did on direct. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 Q (By Mr. Corgan) What's the process that you go 21 through as you look at that crime scene? 22 MR. CARLSON: Same objection, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Sustained. 24 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Mr. Otte, as you talked to the 25 defendant those early morning hours, you were able to DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
295 1 confirm a lot of things, weren't you? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And that was information that came from the 4 defendant? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Told you about buying the stuff at Dillards? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Were you able to ever confirm what he told you about 9 an intruder being in the area? 10 A No, sir. 11 Q Was there anyone other than Stephen Allen that had 12 any information as to an intruder? 13 A No, sir. 14 Q Did he ever tell you that evening that between the 15 time that he left Dillards after talking to his wife and 16 going to the church that he went back by the house? 17 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor, 18 leading and beyond the scope of cross. 19 THE COURT: You may answer. 20 A No, sir. 21 Q (By Mr. Corgan) And did you receive some information 22 that between 8:30 and 9:05 that he was in the area of his 23 house? 24 A Yes, sir. 25 MR. CORGAN: That's all. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
296 1 --------------------------------------------- 2 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. CARLSON: 4 Q And the information that you received was that he 5 drove by his house, correct? 6 A One occasion, yes, sir. 7 MR. CARLSON: Thank you. That's all we 8 have. 9 ---------------------------------------------- 10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 11 BY MR. CORGAN: 12 Q Well, you received other information as to him 13 driving by his home, is that correct? 14 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor. Now 15 we're really beyond the scope of recross. 16 THE COURT: Sustained to the form of the 17 question. 18 Q (By Mr. Corgan) Did you receive information that he 19 was at his home other than driving by? 20 MR. CARLSON: Objection, Your Honor. Same 21 objection. 22 THE COURT: Sustained. 23 Q (By Mr. Corgan) You tell us you've received 24 information as to him driving by his home, is that 25 correct? DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
297 1 MR. CARLSON: Objection, leading. He's 2 still -- 3 THE COURT: He's answered it. 4 MR. CORGAN: That's all. 5 THE COURT: Thank you, Officer. You may 6 step down. Let's take a 10 minute recess, please. 7 (FOR FURTHER TRANSCRIPTION, SEE VOLUME II 8 OF JURY TRIAL PROCEEDINGS.) 9 --------------------------------------------------------- 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
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