OUR LADY PEACE:THE PIED PIPERS PIPE UP!

Interviews conducted by 'Mother' Melanie Windover

The Pied Pipers of Peace have returned with 11 new medleys to march to on their third disc, Happiness... Is Not A Fish You Can Catch. After months of writing and recording with their unofficial fifth member, producer and Frozen Ghost alumni, Arnold Lanni, they'll be hitting the road once again to try to find that elusive happiness.

Singer Raine Maida and guitarist Mike Turner both spent time-outs from shooting the video for the band's first single, "One Man Army" to chat with ChartAttack, while drummer Jeremy Taggart and bassist Duncan Coutts were tracked down for some java a week later. The guys discussed Woodstock, their new album, the Internet, weird sounds and a whole bunch of other things. The following is a transcript of the conversations ChartAttack writer Melanie Windover had with the band, and is undoubtedly one of the longest stories ever published on OLP. Enjoy.

THE ART OF RIOT AVOIDANCE AND TOUR PLANS

Mike Turner

You guys just got back from Woodstock. How was that for you?

Mike: It was fine. We got away before things turned ugly. And it was fairly well-organized. You know, apart from getting a radio station in my monitors. That was the only thing that was a little strange for me. I'm listening to a radio station and Jeremy, trying to play to, well, one or the other. It was fun. The crowd, I was amazed to see how many Canadian flags there were. That was really nice, that felt really gratifying, you know, that the Canadian contingent came out to support the Canadians. That was really fun. Great opportunity to see a couple bands too. I saw Rage and they were just so good, an inspiration.

Why did you guys decide to do new material?

Because we're really kind of selfish. I think we've toured so hard in the States as well, that anyone that is familiar with us, we probably played their corner bar, and they were probably there and they've seen us do that material and hopefully do it well. So, we wanted to show them the new stuff. And those that hadn't seen us, you know, fine. This is what we are right now. That's what we were a few years ago, when we recorded it, and the new material represents what we're doing now. So, it just seemed like the right thing to do.

You guys have built up a really strong fan base by doing the club tour as opposed to, say, radio airplay. Now you've done Woodstock, you've played Maple Leaf Gardens, you've done your Summersault tour. What kind of energy do you prefer, the kind of intimate club thing, or the huge arena rock?

They're different facets of the same thing, you know, playing for people is the essence of what we do. And we're somewhat blessed in the idea that we get to do both. In the States, we're doing large, mid-sized clubs. In Europe, we're doing tiny, tiny clubs. So, we get to play the whole spectrum still. It would be a shame to be, you know, to be excluded from one or the other. We're just, like I said, we're privileged to be able to do both. I mean, the arena show is great fun because it's another level of performance, you know, because we did our short films and then staging, and that's like the big show. But in a small environment, you've got a more personal, visceral experience. So, they're different facets of the same thing.

Do you guys plan on doing another Summersault?

Well, we'd like to do one next summer. It's a little early to say, but it would be nice. I mean, it's always fun to play on festival bills like Woodstock. And hopefully a nice, diverse bill. That would be something we'd like to do.

"Clumsy" and "4am" were crossover singles; they went into the play-a-little-bit-of-this, a-little-bit-of-that radio formats. How do you feel about that?

You know, I'd like to think that some of what we do is, well, hopefully most of what we do is able to transcend any sort of demographic barrier. Hopefully the sentiment expressed, especially in those two songs, and musically in general, hopefully it's not something only this particular group of people or that particular group of people can pay attention to. You know, I'd like to think that it's something that a lot of people can understand. So, I don't have a problem with that.

HOW TO ROCK IN THE FREE WORLD WORKING FOR THE MAN

Mike Turner (cont'd)

You guys have had a lot of creative control and freedom. Do you think that's there's too much money with record companies - that they find people and say, "We're going to make you this new thing and make you big and you're going to make all this money for us?" Do you think there's too much of that now?

Mike Turner: Well, I mean a record company is a business, you know, and they have every right to make as much money as they can. That's why they're in it. I think that anyone that thinks of it otherwise is being a little naive. As soon as you get in bed with these people you've got to realize that that's their intent. When you read your contract and it says what they're going to do with your music, it's called they-have-the-right-to-exploit-those-master-tapes. And, if you don't like that, then don't sign the contract.

I think the downside is when record companies get in and spend a huge amount of money and basically the band is sitting there in a very leveraged position where they don't have as much say because there's so much on the line. You know what I mean? The record company has to try to be a business about it. We have, you know, half a million dollars into this video or album or whatever the heck that they spend this ridiculous sum of money on. And there's so much pressure for the band to produce that breakthrough hit quickly, the bands don't get a chance to develop. I mean, when we started we avoided that kind of stuff. We didn't take big budgets. We didn't, you know, demand our, "I want a Rolex signing bonus," or whatever. We wanted to get on the road and stay on the road and get out there and tour and build a real fan base by playing for people.

I think that's, at least in our impression, that's always been a way a band develops a career. Whereas if you get into that position where they're just going to spend so much money to get you in everybody's face this week, well they didn't know you last week. And two weeks from now, they don't have the time invested in their attachment to you. So, if you go away, they're not bothered at all. Whereas, if you grow with your audience, there's an affinity, a trust between the band and the fans. Like I know there are bands that I'll go out and buy their record [even] if I haven't heard a thing. It's a new record. I'm going to go buy it, because they've produced great records in the past, I've got a history with them. But you know, if that history only reaches back a couple of months, where's the loyalty going to be? So I think if there's any issue, that would be it.

Do you feel that your fans may be a little more vigilant because you're Canadian?

Oh yeah, we definitely feel that and it's nice, it's wonderful. You know, anytime when we're playing abroad, somehow there's always a Canadian. We can be, like, we were in northern France, playing a festival of, like, all U.K. and French and German acts, and somehow there were three Canadians. We're like, "what the hell are you doing here?" "Oh, we heard you were playing, man. We had to come." We're, like, "Right on." It's still nice, you know. It's definitely gratifying. Like I said, there's the kindred patriotism, there's also a certain defensiveness that [becomes] supportiveness for a band that you have a history with. So, it's nice.

Is your live show still about going out and making some friends and then going off to the next place?

Sort of, yeah. Ultimately, I think there's always going to be, hopefully, sort of a shared community experience. We've never really looked at it as we're the band and they're the audience, you know, there's the security trench between us. We have to be the ones on stage playing, but you're the ones out there listening and giving the energy back into what we do. So, it's a mutual synergy. Hopefully everyone walks away from it with an affection for that event. You know, you've enjoyed it and feel good about having been a part of it. So obviously we feel a bond with the fans, hopefully the fans feel a bond with us.

THE GREAT INTERNET CONSPIRACY

Mike Turner (cont'd)

The great music industry fiasco, if you will, right now is MP3. Do you sit on one side of the fence of that or the other?

Well, yes and no. I mean the Internet's more of my thing, in the band. I do the website. It's something I'm interested in. It's difficult, difficult. MP3 is a technology, I think let's just say "digital download." As long as it doesn't interfere with musicians making a living, I'm all for it. But... the advocates of "free" music suggest that, because copyright law is a relatively new thing, it was the mid-1600s when the first electrical copyright law was enacted. It was, "Oh look, DaVinci and Shakespeare and, you know, Brahms and Beethoven. They didn't need copyright protection and they made great art."

They also had patrons that would give them accommodations in a villa and a staff and money, in order to produce their art. That doesn't happen now. We live in a commercial, capitalist society. If you want music of a caliber that's generated by people that that's all they do, then they also have to eat. And that involves being remunerated for what you do. Remunerated for when you play live, for your recorded music, for the intellectual product you brought into existence. On the flipside, and how things are often done on the Internet, there are various "non-commercially available" items [er, bootlegs?]. I think, let's just say diplomatically, we'll say that.

It's something that, as long as it isn't interfering with the commercially available artist's output, then it's just another way for a fan to be passionate about an artist. I'm after recordings of Jeff Buckley songs that he never recorded - like, not on Grace, not on Sketches, like nowhere do I know that they exist. And if they come out recorded, I'll buy them. You know I don't have a problem with that. But, if I was to just go and download the entire album and not buy it, well that's not fair. I morally think that's wrong. So, it's definitely a two-edged sword. It can be, I mean on the positive side, it can take back some of the power that the bootleggers have developed. I know there's at least two CDs of us that we don't have anything to do with. Strictly speaking, they're illegal, they're definitely immoral. We weren't allowed any input on the quality and the caliber and the performances on them, which we're quite judicious about.. But, they exist. Unfortunately. Well what we could do with this technology is, "O.,K. You've got our recording. We probably have the original of it or a better version of it that we can, you know, EQ, master, clean up, whatever and put on our website." And why would a kid go out and give you money, that you're basically stealing from us, when they can get it at our site for free? So, there are opportunities and pitfalls. And it'll be interesting, I'd say within the next year, it's definitely got to be resolved. So, it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

BALLS... ARE WHAT IT TAKES TO DEBUT YOUR NEW RECORD IN FRONT OF 250,000 PEOPLE

Raine Maida

I remember four years ago, there was a lot of confusion with your name, people saying, "Our Lady Of Peace." Is that still happening or do you think you've finally cleared that?

Pretty close. I haven't heard it for awhile. I heard one guy on a microphone, or an announcer, not an announcer but someone talking back and forth at Woodstock, someone said "Our Lady Of Peace." The guy that was driving us to the stage said, "I have the band with me right now. They heard that and they're coming to kill you." So I think everybody knows.

The poem where you got your name from, is that still a relevant thing or is your name beyond that, you don't really think of the source?

Yeah, you know it's been, like, six years. So we've definitely gotten away from the name being... You know because the name and everything was so intrinsic on the first record conceptually with that guy on the cover presenting what he was, you know, kind of really wisdom-like. We showed his age a lot and kind of went with that and made it like he was this spiritual figure. It's come a ways. It's still part of the band. Even on our last arena tour we had him read it in his new costume as he appeared on Clumsy, he read the poem aloud on a big video screen. Yeah, finally now, it doesn't have as much to do with the new record. Although, the only thing it does have to do [with] is the fact that it's an old war poem, and a lot of the songs on this new record kind of focus around death and mortality. So, you know, there's still a link. But you can link anything...

I heard you did a lot of new material at Woodstock.

We did. I don't know if it was so much crazy as we're just really happy with this new record, we're really proud of it. We feel like we've grown so much between records that; we just want to play [the new material]. It was the only time we got to play live so we played it. You know and I think in not a really contrived way, the crowd, I don't know how many people were there, but we weren't getting booed off the stage and no one was throwing bottles. It took, you know, a minute of each new song for them to kind of get their bearings. When I hear new music it takes me a few listens, so, for them to be that responsive on songs they've never even heard or known of, I was pretty impressed. We were really kind of surprised.

Were you scared at all going into it?

I was. Yeah. It's like having a baby, you know we've kind of protected these songs and now we've kind of got to show them to the world. And in front of 300,000 people right away. We did a couple shows at the Horseshoe [Tavern, in Toronto] unannounced, but Woodstock was the first real show. I was, yeah, I was scared. When you have all these people singing along with you to, say, "Starseed" or "Clumsy," do you ever think, "How come I can only get that type of response from everybody with those songs? Listen to the whole album!"

Well that's the thing we find doesn't happen to us. You find people singing to songs - on this last record - to "Car Crash." It's deeper songs on this record. So that, you know, it just means that, 'cause when we make a record we give each song the same amount of attention. It's not like, a "Clumsy" you're, like, "O.K., maybe this could be a radio song. Let's just focus on that song because there are other ones that will be on the record but throw them away." We never even think about a single until the record's done and every song gets as much attention. So, selfishly on our half, we want people to give those songs the same amount of attention and so far, it seems like it's happened.

HOW TO TRICK RADIO STATIONS

Raine Maida (cont')

Your music doesn't seem too much like radio crossover material for the adult-contemporary kind of stations, and this new record definitely doesn't. But, how do you feel about having that kind of crossover: I know that "Clumsy" was played on MIX stations. Does that bother you at all?

You know what, I don't pay attention to radio anyway. If you start thinking about radio stations and how they're going to play your song or who's going to play your song, then it just starts this whole snowball effect about thinking about how you should write songs, or what kind of sounds you should use, you know. And it really fucks with your head. You can't let that stuff seep into your psyche when you're writing songs and recording. We purposely don't let anybody hear the songs - any of our management, not even the record company - until they're finished. That way, you don't get someone saying, you know, "Maybe if you played this chorus twice it would be a single." So we just keep everybody away until the record's done. So far they like it. I don't want to sound like a spoiled brat because we're allowed to do that, because most bands aren't. You know, most bands are sending tapes of their stuff before they're ready to record, before anyone gives them money. We've just, for whatever reason, we've been really lucky the record company lets us do our thing. So, we're really fortunate and grateful because I don't think we'd be in the business if we had people breathing down our necks saying, you know, "Try this or try that." For us, we make a record. If you like it, great. If not, it doesn't matter. We're still going to be out playing live. If it doesn't get radio play, hopefully our fans will realize that it's still worth the money. Maybe there's not a hit single, but there's still 10 or 11 good songs. I really don't want to have to try to compete with Matchbox 20. It has nothing to do with that.

I've noticed on this new album it seems like there are little pieces of synthetic sounds, like electronic sounds and I've never heard that on the other ones.

There was a natural progression for us because we really don't like loops, like everybody's using drum loops and I'm not going to start doing, like, white rap on a song you know, just 'cause Limp Bizkit's or Korn's doing the stuff. The textures that you heard really are the only way that we felt comfortable forging new ground with our sound, you know, without making things sound like Clumsy or Naveed, sonically. And you know what, all they do is add a "texture." It's like at the same time, we can still take these songs, just play it acoustically, and hopefully they're still strong songs. So that's what we always hold ourselves to. You know, if you can just play it on piano or acoustic and a voice and it still speaks to somebody, O.K., you can record it. And the other stuff just kind of exists on the periphery. It's important in terms of maybe sucking somebody into the song right at the beginning. You hear this eerie keyboard sound or something but, in term of the song and making it a great song, not at all. It's not that important.

THERE'S A MILLION WAYS TO MEASURE SUCCESS

Raine Maida (cont')

Now that you guys have two Junos and two MuchMusic awards under your belt and is it platinum records you have now? How do you measure your career achievements personally - is it reaching a certain point, or getting a specific award or having a certain number of albums?

Well, I mean obviously it's about a body of work. Looking back on... four or five records and saying, "O.K. There's like a progression and development." The most exciting thing that's happened to us, we've played with so many big bands, and the Woodstock thing. You know, like a gold record or platinum record in America, for a Canadian band, is unheard of. Those kind of things, like for a minute you say, "Oh wow, that's amazing." But really, I think the only thing that is a barometer for us, is when we finished this record. It was the four of us in a studio saying, "Holy shit. We think this is actually good." On our other two records, there's some songs that we don't play because we really don't like them that much. This record, it's like every night we're going to try to play all the songs because we're so crazy about all of them. We put so much work into them all. It sounds probably really corny, but that's the biggest achievement for us so far. Finishing this record - we're proud of it is basically all I can say.

It seems like the great music industry controversy is MP3. Do you sit on either side of the fence with that?

I was one of those kids that made tapes and stuff out of other people's CDs. But, being an artist now, if one person's going to pay for it everybody should pay for it, you know. Either you make music free and the artists get paid some different way, or everybody has to pay for it. The whole pirating thing is weird. I hope they figure something out. I understand, especially these days I completely understand why people, you know, it's easier maybe just to download the song they like instead of paying for the whole CD, because I get pissed off when I spend $18 on a CD and there's two good songs and you're sitting there, "What the F!" But the music business did that to itself anyway, by signing way too many bands. I don't know, the MP3 thing could get ugly. You could see artists not making records, because of that, that issue.

One line I really liked, I don't remember what song it's from, but, "Talking is just masturbating without the mess."

The lyric, it's just an observation. A lot of people talk just for the sake of wanting to be heard. It makes them feel good talking. So, to me that's no different than masturbating really. You're just pleasuring yourself and in conversation, that's such complete bullshit, when you're trying to connect with somebody and have something of meaning. It's so superficial to do stuff like that. Like 80 per cent of the time, that's what's going on when you're talking to people, you know. When someone asks, "How are you?" They really don't give a shit usually, unfortunately. And beyond the depth of that, my whole thing is that the relationships I want to have and the people I want to know and love, you want to feel that same thing coming back. If you have that kind of relationship where it doesn't feel like someone's masturbating when they're talking to you, then you're lucky and you've got to kind of hold on to that. But most everyone else, that's where the whole mortality thing and the whole record's based upon death, it's like being dead when you're talking to people like that. It's like an energy sucker. It's unfortunate.

Continued