Second Nature Double Issue

If you have at all been in touch with the extreme and experimental end of hardcore, chances are you've heard the name Botch thrown around quite frequently. They have been slowing(sic) etching their name into the scene for a couple of years now, and with the release of their latest offering, an album entitled "American Nervoso" (Hydra Head), I could confidently say that they are not going away anytime soon. So sit back and see what these Seattlites have to say. Okay, first I want to get your names on tape. Dan: So I can have a great time transcribing the interview.

DaveK: Dave Knudson, I play guitar. Brian: Brian, I play bass. Dave V: Dave, I play vocals. (everyone laughs) Tim: Tim Latona, I play drums.

The first question I want to ask you is about location. Everyone seems to kind of harsh on the West Coast as being a hard place to play, but since you come from the West Coast, do you consider it easier than going out to the East Coast, besides the Midwest travel?

Dave K:I think on the West Coast, unless you're already an established band, its really hard to get shows because the scene there is like...all they do is read zines and buy all the big Victory records, so your first time out you're going to have troubles. We all did and Harkonen is now.

They're having trouble on the West even?

Dave V: Even with us, when we tried to set up our tour a couple years ago, East Coast weren't a problem, but we couldn't get any on the West Coast, we couldn't even get people to return calls. Money seems to be a big problem on the West Coast. It's a lot different when you set up shows on the West Coast, when you go to the East Coast people are like, "yeah, we can get you $400." Dave K: There's not as many kids and there's not nearly as many places, cause the drives are always like 3 or 4 times as long. Dave V: There's only like 4 or 5 cities to play on the west coast. Dave K: The last time we were in California was like a year ago. We hardly ever leave the Seattle region at all, which kind of sucks.

I know Seattle had a spurt like a year and a half ago, all bands of the genre...Nineironspitfire, Kiss it Goodbye, Botch, and Jough Dawn Baker, is that better or worse for you?

Dave V: I think it's cool because more kids like our music now, and you can play with bands that are more our style instead of with Trial every night. Brian: There's like a good music scene up there, it's not necessarily hardcore related. If you just look at the volume of music that comes out of Olympia, there's so many bands it's really fragmented. Dave V: Not many bands get the nuts to go down and play Olympia cause they know it's all the emo kids...

Do you guys do well down there?

Dave V: No, we do well there. Brian: It's changing, it used to be so pretentious... Dave K: Heroin users only.

I was kind of curious as to what the whole John Birch Conspiracy Theory was all about, you've probably explained it a lot before, but...

Brian: Okay, well there's the John Birch Society, which is a really radical right-wing group that is anti-democracy, pro-republic, anti-Communist, there's a lot of anti-semantic(sic) tones to it. They're kind of secretive and really weird. We just decided to name our record that because the 7" came at a time where there was...it was sort of a backlash against a lot of the PC politics in hardcore. It seemed like a lot of bands were coming out with a lot of fucked up ideas so it was kind of play on that.

Have you gotten a lot of flak for it?

Brian: A lot of people didn't even get it. Dave V: They thought we were really right-wing. Dave K: I guess Kent McClard was like, "these guys are serious aren't they?" or something like that. Dave V: In fact, Sean said something in that review like "these guys are confused," and we were like, "no we are not." It just got confusing. And the gun on the cover was kind of confusing. Dave V: We're just trying to make people think and wonder, instead f giving them the same old stuff they've gotten before. Because I was talking to someone in Lawerence [KS], they thought it was a whole direct action approach, with the gun thing.

Phyte: Yeah, you guys, direct action. (laughs) Everyone: (laughs) Do you guys have any other political issues? Do you consider yourself a political band?

Brian: We deal with a lot of politics, but we don' agree on anything. Tim: (sarcastically, just to disagree) Yes we do (everyone laughs). Brian: So we kind of leave that out because we never really settle on an agenda, I don't think. Dave V: Our band is not based on any political agenda or anything like that, but you can't help but to write what you think. Brian: And there's nothing worse than a band that tries to come off as being really educated and articulate but really doesn't have any idea what they're talking about. Dave V: (interrupts with the good old acting-like-your-sneezing-to-cover-up-what-you're-saying trick) Race Traitor! (silence) Dave V: Making friends.

What about that compilation about the death penalty?

Brian: Well, I was friends with Chris Jenson, and he was interested in us doing it... Do you all agree with that? Brain: I agree with it, yeah, it's something we all kind of stand behind. Although the song isn't really about the death penalty. Dave K: What is that song about anyway? Dave V: It's about like...(everyone laughs)...I'm on the spot, it takes me forever to explain songs, but that's kind of about people exploiting things for the wrong reasons, taking advantage of people, and stuff like that. It really has nothing to do with the death penalty. Brian: And the whole theme...Chris didn't really want 12 songs about the death penalty, we want songs that are about the value of human life.

Phyte: Explain the title of the new record.

Brian: The new record is called "American Nervoso". And nervoso is this disease that strikes sugar cane workers in Brazil and basically what happens is their bodies atrophy and weaken to where they can't work. Part of it is brought on by starvation but a lot of it is just the pressure of their environment because there's death squads everywhere, there's the constant threat of disease, kids just disappearing, the government just going around and shooting street children and stuff like that. So basically these people just kind of fall apart and the only thing that they can do is just lie around the house and it sort of robs them of their identity. So it's sort of a Western equivalent, so instead of this threat of starvation of and this threat of government violence, it's more of a pressure for "this is what you need to have", "this is what you need to own", "this is what you need to look like", so instead of wearing down the body because of starvation and the pressure that the Brazil people have, it's the pressure of "look this way", so you have eating disorders, and you have people that are constantly going out and trying to buy things to try to build this sort of fake identity. It's just the Western equivalent to what we see in Brazil.

On the new record, you break a lot of musical ground with anything you've ever done before, is it lyrically that much different also?

Dave V: I don't know because a lot of the songs are realy old, I've just been writing constantly since the 7" came out. Dave K: The lyrics seen to be a little more abstract. I like them better that way. Tim: I like them better that way too. Brian: A lot of the songs tend to take on multiple meanings. Dave V: I just write lyrics over a long period of time so they encompass a lot of ideas, but the main thing is that we get a song to sound good, that's our main concern. As long as the songs sound good, the rhythm is right and whatever, that's just as important as the meaning, to me. If someone deciphers my lyrics differently and it means something to them, then that's cool, if they don't understand it, then they can talk to me and I can tell them what my interpretation of the song is. It's kind of open. Brian: We have a song on the album called "Rejection Spoken Softly", which part of the lyrics I wrote and part of the lyrics Dave wrote, and I think it's kind of weird because I think they were written from two different approaches, so you can kind of read both perspectives into it, and at the same time because of these two different ideas, you can create a third, whole new idea. So, a lot of people won't have any idea what we're talking about. Not very distinctive ideas. Dave V: Then a lot of the songs are just straight to the point, like "Oma", that's about my grandma who died of cancer. There's really no other interpretation to it.

I also noticed last night when you guys were playing, you [Dave K] had all those crazy effects, is that new because I don't remember them last year?

Dave K: It's gradually gotten bigger and bigger, and a lot of them are at home broken,there're at home at the practice space. It's just stuff to fuck with and get weird noises and sounds. Phyte: That big board is cheesy Dave K: It's better than having all these pedals all over the place. Tim: At least he doesn't have a big effects processor. Dave K: Yeah, I don't have a big rack of like 500 Eventide H3000's everywhere. (laughs)

I noticed you didn't bring your gong on tour, I take it your sick of playing that song?

Dave V: We played it like 3 times when it was cool, when we play it now it's stupid. Brian : There's been a couple of times we played it when it was rad. Dave V: One time we played it it was rad, the rest of the time I couldn't remember the words in Greek or whatever. (everyone laughs)

So is Phyte the fifth member? Because I noticed last night when you were playing he was plugging in guitars and holding stuff together.

Dave V: He's the official roadie. Phyte: That's about as much responsibility as I can handle. Dave V: Usually we recruit my little brother, but on tour you can only take so many people, and Phyte is a work horse man. Brian: Family on tour is just a bad idea.

Dan: What prompted the decision to go with Hydra Head, because I know there were a few labels after you?

Dave V: People weren’t really like after us, they were just like, “yeah that would be cool if we put out your record,” and we were kind of weird about it. Then we put out that demo thing and sent it to people saying, “okay, we’re ready to do our record,” and we only got like two call backs maybe. Dave K: No, there were a couple people that called us back, but HydraHead was the only one that was really serious and worked out what he wanted to do and how he wanted to do it and actually telling us specific things. Other people were like, “yeah, it would be cool to do and we’re interested in doing it.” Brian: They didn’t want to talk about money. Plus we’ve only heard good things about HydraHead. Dave K: All the stuff he’s put out is really cool stuff. Plus it’s an East Coast label and we’re from the West Coast, which will give us more exposure. Like Phyte was saying earlier, if we would have done it with a West Coast label, it probably wouldn’t have gotten to the East as much.

Phyte: Are you worried about pigeonholing, cause it seems like there’s a HydraHead sound? Not really though, he’s got the Six Going on Seven 7”, which is poppy, and the Hollomen 7”, which is fucked up, I don’t know what the hell that is, and then he’s got the death metal bands. Dave K: God damn Phyte! Phyte: Well the big things were the Cable, and the Drowningman, you guys, and Cave In…like I just saw an interview somewhere, I think it was the guys from Drowningman were like, “yeah, we fit with that label, blah, blah, blah,”. That’s what I was going after!

Oh that (laughs) Dave K: He’s definitely got a style, but I think we’re a little bit different than a lot of the other bands on the label… Brian: I think every band on the label is pretty distinctive. I mean there’s definitely a lot of the newer, noisy, kind of metal stuff, and I’ve heard a lot of people say he’s the new Earache of the underground, which I can kind of see that, but this is the guy that also put out the Piebald LP. I don’t think he’s tied down to a sound, he seems to put out stuff he really likes. Dave V: Can’t wait to meet him. (laughs)

Phyte: It seems like a lot of bands seem to change members a lot, like Jesuit had to find a new drummer and guitarist, and you [Nathan] just joined Coalesce. It seems like you guys don’t really have any problems, you’ve never had to replace someone.

Dave V: Everyone sucks! Phyte: So you’ve tried to replace people (laughs), secretly? Dave K: We’ve been together for such a long time and know how we work with each other and how we write songs, and I think that each person plays such an important role that it would be difficult to replace them with another person. I think if anyone were to quit or dropped out or died or something, it would be over. Brian: We’re all really close. We fight like family, we bond like family.