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PI Transcript
Guests on this program were:
Jello Biafra
Jon Stewart
Elisa Donovan
Bryan Kemper
Bill: Well, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
Another ferocious day over there in the Balkans.
Air strikes --
The weather cleared a little bit and we are really pounding them.
We hit ammo dumps, we hit oil refineries, communications systems.
And on the way out, just to show them who's boss, we clipped a ski lift.
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ]
President Clinton is serious about this air attack.
He is going to go through with this.
He said the other day, "Our plan is to persist until we prevail."
And then he said, "Anybody who doubts my resolve, just ask a
couple of those Jane Does."
He --
[ Applause ]
Now, air news of another sort.
Remember the Swiss balloon that went around the world a couple of
weeks ago?
Okay, well ---
[ Applause ]
Applause for the Swiss balloon.
Like, who could give a rat's ass.
[ Laughter ]
But anyway --
It got donated to the Smithsonian Institute today.
They're gonna keep it there in Washington at the Smithsonian.
Of course, they had to make special arrangements 'cause it is a
Swiss balloon.
It keeps trying to drift over the Holocaust museum and steal from the dead.
[ Laughter ]
[ Scattered applause ]
I love to give it to the Swiss.
[ Laughter ]
I hate their cheese.
Anyway --
Now, tomorrow -- do you know what tomorrow is?
It is National Equal Payday.
Now, let me explain this.
That is --
I know, women like this.
It's the exact point in the year that the average woman must work
to earn the same wage that the average man earned in the previous year.
That's interesting stuff.
Of course, there's a new day being developed that is called Hell
Freezes Over Day.
That's the exact point a man must wait for a woman to pick up a check.
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ]
And also, another big day coming up.
Friday is Millennium Baby Day.
That is Friday.
Mark this in your calendars 'cause you may have to get busy, men.
That is the best day to conceive a baby that will be born on
January 1st, 2000.
And guys, do it right, 'cause this is a line you can only use
once in a thousand years.
Panel Discussion
Bill: All right.
Let's meet our panel.
He is the National Director of a Generation X anti-abortion group
called Rock For Life, Bryan Kemper.
Bryan.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Bryan: How you doin'?
Bill: Nice to see you.
Bryan: Thank you.
Bill: He'll be at the Palace here in L.A. this Thursday, and
his new CD is "If Evolution is Outlawed, only Outlaws will Evolve."
Jello Biafra.
Jello.
[ Cheers and applause ]
There you are, sir, good to see you again.
Jello: Hello, hello.
Bill: She's one of the charming stars of "Clueless" Tuesdays
at 8:30 on another network, Elisa Donovan.
Yeah.
Elisa: Hi.
Bill: Hey, you.
Elisa: Hello.
Bill: Good to see you.
Elisa: How you doing?
Bill: I'm okay, thank you.
And the brand-spanking-new star of "The Daily Show" on Comedy
Central, Jon Stewart right over here.
[ Cheers and applause ]
How are you?
Okay.
All right.
Well, Bryan, I must admit, I didn't expect you to look quite so
counterculture, because your group is called Rock For Life and it is --
the point of it is to spread the anti-abortion message through rock 'n' roll.
And I must admit, I cannot think of a more antithetical vehicle
for spreading that message than rock 'n' roll.
Bryan: I think it's a great way to spread it.
Kids love it.
You know?
If you want to reach the kids of today, kids love rock music.
It's a great way to spread it.
Bill: But rock is about, you know, carefree rebellion.
And your group is not.
Jon: But religion is about contradiction.
So that's -- that's the beauty of it.
I mean, religion is based on contradiction.
It's "God is forgiving.
Homosexuals must burn."
You know, it's a --
Elisa: It's also just a matter of terms, right?
Of terminology.
It's like you're just talking about words.
The word "Rock," then.
You're not talking about it as a form of music.
You're speaking about it as a whole set of moral values and a way
of life, right?
Bill: No.
I'm talking about the nut.
The kernel of rock 'n' roll is about rebellion and about doing
what your parents don't want you to do and about having a good time.
And I don't understand why that has to get mixed up with an
anti-abortion message.
Bryan: First of all, it's just about music.
It's just about music.
Rock 'n' roll is music.
It's a style of music.
The people that play the music decide what message --
Bill: It's a style of music with a thought behind it.
Bryan: Well, it depends who's playing the music.
Jon: That's true.
'Cause Kenny G is not the same rebellion.
Bill: But that's not rock 'n' roll.
Jon: Yeah, no, you're right.
But rock 'n' roll was started for --
I mean, the whole punk aesthetic was anarchy.
Let's break all the rules as opposed to upholding --
Bill: Right.
And that was a throwback to --
Bryan: Right now being anti-abortion or being pro-life is
definitely against the norm in society.
So you can say they are the true rebellious ones.
'Cause they're rebelling against these things.
They're rebelling against sex.
[ Cheers and applause ]
Jon: And the bombings, I think, also, a symbol of rebellion,
wouldn't you say?
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: Well, we have nothing to do with that.
Jon: No, no, no.
I'm saying, people take it to the extreme.
Bryan: The thing is, you may call it Christian rock 'n' roll.
But that's an improper term, because Christian is a term for
somebody who believes in Jesus Christ, who believes in Jesus
Christ's blood was shed for the remission of their sin.
So they're the Christians.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Okay, okay, folks.
You know, Jesus doesn't need your applause.
He knows He's big.
[ Laughter ]
Thank you.
Bryan: So whatever inspires the writer of the music is what's
gonna come out.
If someone believes truly in Jesus Christ or believes in
Christianity, that's what's gonna come out in their music.
People get down on that, but no one gets down on, let's say, free
Tibet concerts, people that promote Buddhism or other religions in music.
No one gets down on them.
But they always get down on Christians and that's ridiculous.
Bill: Okay, now, I know you have marked for boycott --
I'll just read some of the people on the list.
Bonnie Raitt, Green Day, Jackson Browne, Madonna, Neil Young,
Pearl Jam, R.E.M.
Jello: Ooh.
Elisa: Wow.
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: Okay, first of all, first of all, the purpose of our
boycott --
Bill: Because they're pro-choice.
Bryan: No, not at all.
It's not because they're pro-choice.
It's because they may do things that are active to raise money
for the pro-abortion industry.
So just because someone --
Bill: What is the pro-abortion industry?
Bryan: Organizations like Planned Parenthood, Rock for Choice,
Voters for Choice.
Elisa: Wait, wait, wait.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Whoa.
Bryan: Okay.
Elisa: Okay.
I admire what your organization is doing in many areas.
But when you're talking about attacking organizations like
Planned Parenthood and --
Bryan: Which was started by a racist Nazi like Margaret
Sanger.
How can you support an organization founded by a Nazi?
Elisa: But there are tens of thousands --
Bryan: Every year they give out the Margaret Sanger award.
Margaret Sanger, if you read her work --
and Planned Parenthood still stands on her writing --
says that she wanted to exterminate the negro population.
And every year they give out an award in her name.
If you do research on Margaret Sanger, read her autobiography,
you'll find these things out.
These organizations are evil organizations.
Bill: Okay, but you know what?
Jello: I don't think that's what Planned Parenthood stands for now.
Bryan: If you ask them, if you ask --
Elisa: Exactly, at some point --
Bryan: Well, they still give out Margaret Sanger awards.
Bill: Okay.
Well, you know what?
Bryan: What if someone gave out the Hitler award?
Bill: Margaret Sanger's a bad person, we should bomb her.
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: Don't bomb anyone.
[ All talking at once ]
Bill: I think 99 out of 100 people who walk into Planned
Parenthood have no idea who Margaret Sanger is.
Bryan: How about the fact that they kill thousands of babies
every year?
Bill: That's a different story.
But they're not babies, they're inanimate goo.
Bryan: They are babies, created by God.
Bill: You know what?
Jon: You mean afterward.
You don't mean just contraception, right?
I mean, you're talking about after conception.
Bryan: Well, a lot of things that people call contraception,
like the birth control pill, iud, Norplant, Depo-Provera, are
abortifation drugs.
Jon: Sorry?
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: They are abortifation drugs.
Jon: I tell you something, you are the smartest guy who looks
like they could scare me that I've ever met in my life.
[ Laughter ]
I've never -- I honestly --
Bryan: If you look at --
Jon: You're obviously -- you're very intelligent, but I
wouldn't want to ride on a Harley, necessarily, with you.
Bill: But you're saying that an iud or a birth control pill is abortion?
Bryan: It's an abortifation -- if you look at what the health
department --
Jon: An aborta-what?
Bryan: Let me finish.
[ All talking at once ]
Bryan: The Health Department, the U.S. Department of Health, defines
abortifation as anything that impedes a zygote from going to
completion.
Anything that impedes that.
Now, the birth control pill, the original use of that, yes, is to
stop ovulation.
Elisa: However --
Bryan: But 2% to 10% of the time --
Bill: Okay --
Bryan: Hold on, let me finish this statement.
Jon: Go to the charts, go to the charts!
Elisa: We're talking about numbers here.
[ Applause ]
Bryan: One baby died.
If one baby dies --
Bill: Okay, I think we get your point.
Elisa: -- Is the potential to become a child.
It is not a human being.
Up until the first trimester --
Bryan: Oh, give me a break.
Bill: You know what?
Bryan: You have to draw the line somewhere.
Bill: Wait a second.
Bryan: At what point does it --
Bill: I have to say, you two, your nails are colored the exact same.
Elisa: I know, we discussed this earlier.
[ Laughter ]
Bill: I have to take a commercial.
I'm going to think about that.
Announcer: Join us tomorrow when our guests will be Laura
Linney, Dweezil Zappa, Eddie Griffin and Melissa Moskel.
[ Applause ]
Bill: Okay, we're talking about, I guess, where life begins is
really the essence of that.
And I guess you were saying that birth control -- if birth
control is abortion, I mean, I don't know, where does --
Jon: I think it begins, honestly, when "Baywatch" first came on.
[ Laughter ]
When people first began --
Jello: I know you're trying to keep Jesus out of this, but
it's obvious what you're really pushing here is a fundamentalist
religious agenda.
Bryan: I don't keep Jesus out of anything.
Jello: And I don't object to people having spiritual values.
I think spiritual values should be a matter of choice.
And when somebody uses something like this --
or at least other people in the anti-choice mob use this to push
religious values on other people by law or by violence, and I
think religious values and what people do with their own bodies
should be a matter of individual choice.
If you want people to be anti-choice, that's fine, but not
through the law.
Bryan: First of all, I don't try to keep Jesus out of anything.
Jesus is the only thing that keeps me going in my life.
Jon: Well, keep him out of seder.
I mean, mostly.
[ Laughter ]
Jello: Yeah, you have to.
Bryan: But the thing is, yeah, you have a choice to do what
you want with your body.
I have a choice to do what I want with my body until it comes
time to harm another human being.
Bill: But a human being, that's what we're talking about.
Jello: This is where, when you try to impose your spiritual
values on other people to the law, I fight like a cat in a corner.
Bill: This is a cup, it's not a table.
Okay?
This is not a human being.
An acorn is not an oak tree.
Okay?
Bryan: Bill, when did you start growing?
Did you start growing when you were 1 years old?
When you were four months in the womb?
When you were a viability?
You started when the sperm hit the egg.
At that moment you became a life.
[ Applause ]
Your life is created by God.
And you are valuable life and I would fight to save your life, too.
Jello: Every single sperm that connects with an egg is allowed
to grow to maturity, where are we going to put them all?
Elisa: Exactly.
Jello: Are you saying that --
Bryan: Oh, come on.
Jello: Are you saying --
Elisa: You're also forgetting that the entire --
Jello: That we should just go ahead and wreck the planet, with
more and more people screwing up more and more things because
Jesus is gonna come back and make it all better?
Bill: You know what?
Shut up, men.
Elisa: I'm the only chick.
Can I just say something for one second?
Bill: You may.
Elisa: Thank you.
Bill: You can.
Elisa: Thank you.
Speaking as a chick, does it ever, does it occur to you at all
that this is really not an issue that is something that you can
decide about.
You do not have ability to bear a child.
You do not have the ability to be raped by some man on the street
corner that you never met before.
Bryan: Actually, yes, I do.
I was raped as a child, so don't say that.
Elisa: I'm saying and then have to carry that child.
So are you saying that --
Bryan: No.
Elisa: In cases of rape and incest and other things that you
should also have this child?
Bryan: Absolutely.
A child is a child.
A human being is a human being and we never --
Bill: A human being is a --
Jon: May I?
May I?
Bill: Please.
Jon: The only thing I have is that there are obviously
fundamental differences.
You hold your beliefs very dear and I respect you for that.
And I think, as the only woman in the panel, it is hard to argue
with the "I bear children" scenario.
Bryan: I was a child.
I could have been --
Jon: No, I understand that.
But she obviously, she's talking about sort of the domain of
inside of her body being under her own control, which I'm
respecting as well.
But in terms of the Christian, why must morality always stem from
a divine being?
Why can't morality stem from reason?
See, you and I could lead exactly the same lives.
Exactly.
Moment to moment, second to second.
But when it all hits the fan, I don't go to heaven.
And the reason is, I'm Jewish.
But our lives could be exact morality-wise.
So that's why I think ultimately, really, that's where the
juxtaposition is for people.
That's where the hypocrisy is at times.
There's 1 billion Chinese people that aren't going to heaven
because they don't get cable.
You know what I mean?
[ Laughter ]
They don't --
So ultimately, morality stems from reason.
You should be nice and things like that.
Bill: If birth control is murder, what about masturbation?
Jon: Oh, murder me, baby, yes.
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: What I'm talking about is birth control --
Jello: Why isn't the anti-choice crowd teaching masturbation, then?
It's abstinence.
Bryan: I'm talking about types of birth control that stop an
already fertilized egg.
In 2% to 10% of the time, the egg would be fertilized --
Bill: It doesn't get inside the --
Bryan: It gets to the uterine wall, the pill causes the
uterine wall to be thinned out --
Jello: But you're advocating pulling out.
Bryan: -- To be thinned out, and when the baby goes to implant
in the uterine wall, it's rejected and there's a spontaneous
abortion that takes place.
That happens 2% to 10% of the time.
Now, if I take you to the top of the Empire State Building, give
you a brick and say, "If you drop this from here and there's a 1%
chance that it's gonna hit somebody in the head and kill them,"
and you do that, and you knowingly do that, even though it was
only 1% chance, you're held responsible for that.
So if you're taking a drug that is going to kill a child, you're
responsible for that if you know about that.
Bill: I think that thing in your eye went into your head.
I have to take a commercial.
We'll take a break.
Bill: Okay.
Let's put somebody else on the hot seat, although you acquitted yourself
very well.
Another belief I would also consider kooky --
I guess that's the theme today -- is, Jello, you believe in what
would be called a maximum wage.
Am I right?
Jello: Absolutely.
Bill: That we have a minimum wage in this country.
Jello: Money is a drug.
And I think wealth addiction --
Bill: A good one.
Jello: -- Has done far more damage to the world and this
country than crack addiction or heroin addiction.
Bill: So how much money before you --
what is the maximum wage?
Jello: So why not cure wealth addicts from their addiction by
cutting them off after 100,000 bucks?
Bill: What wage would that be?
Jello: 100,000 bucks.
Bill: 100,000.
Jello: That's pretty generous.
Bill: So after $100,000 --
[ Laughter ]
Jello: Take it away and cure them of their predatory wealth addiction.
Does anybody really need as much money as Donald Trump or --
Elisa: But who takes it away?
Who takes it away?
Bryan: Yeah, where does it go?
[ Talking at once ]
Jello: Believe it or not.
Jon: Exactly.
Jello: Comrades or not, maybe it would build more camaraderie
if people weren't interested in hostile takeovers of this
company, downsizing this person.
Bill: Did you ever notice that what happened in this century
was communism was an abysmal failure?
Did you notice that?
Jello: I don't know if this is communism or not.
You decide if it was communism.
Communism never said "Give the people 100,000 bucks."
They weren't that generous, no.
Jon: But it does take away drive a little.
I mean, certain --
Jello: So what?
The drive to screw people is not a good drive.
It's wealth addiction.
Bryan: What about somebody who goes to school for ten years of
their lives and works very hard to be a doctor and makes a lot of money?
The person worked hard at it, he deserves it.
Jello: Well, but those fees are so high, the health care has
gone through the roof.
And I can't afford to get my teeth fixed.
[ Applause ]
Elisa: The whole basis of this country is a Democratic
society, where people are of a vast diversity of mind and of
beliefs and of culture.
Jello: That's why I'm hoping maximum wage would --
Bill: Let her finish.
Elisa: People of different financial --
Bill: Strata?
Elisa: I got a little interpreter over here.
Uh, cue cards.
No, people of different financial strata, interacting with one
another is what creates part of --
Bill: The glory that is America.
Elisa: The glory that is America.
[ Laughter ]
Jello: It also creates --
Elisa: And it takes away drive.
It takes away the drive.
Jon: I think I have it.
Jello: Turn that drive in another direction.
Jon: It's fun to be rich.
Okay?
[ Laughter ]
Elisa: Are you making fun of me?
Yes, you are.
Jello: He needs his money.
Get him a needle, get him a needle.
Jon: What I'm saying is, I'm shaking 'cause that's how we're
in the country.
For instance, like Jonas Salk, you know?
He's a nice man, he comes up with the whole polio vaccine.
Bryan: I know Mrs. Salk.
Indeed he did.
Jon: But I think you'd take away some of the strides that
we've made in certain avenues.
Jello: But we need to make other strides.
I mean, this mantra from above we're getting, "Oh, we have to
balance the budget," therefore, working mothers who ain't got no
money, or people on welfare, they get their money cut.
Why not make Bill Gates and Michael Jordan and Ross Perot and
other predatory parasites balance the budget?
Jon: Well, that makes sense.
Bill: Why are they parasites?
Jon: Yeah, punish Michael Jordan for being literally the
greatest athlete we've ever seen.
Jello: No, I don't say punish him like that.
Compare what he's done with his fame and his clout with what
Muhammad Ali did in his prime.
Jon: But that was a different political time.
That was during Vietnam.
During Vietnam, Muhammad Ali took a stand.
It was the civil rights movement, it was Vietnam.
You can't --
Bill: Muhammad Ali is also very rich, by the way.
Jon: Difficult times make great men.
I don't begrudge Michael Jordan any of his success.
Jello: A lot of people are living in difficult times now.
Several statistics have come my way --
Jon: 2%, 10%!
[ Laughter ]
Jello: 80% --
80%.
Of the American -- 80% of the American people --
Jon: The zygotes!
Jello: No, grown-up zygotes.
We're talking people!
Nonaborted grown-up zygotes.
80% of them in this country have seen nothing from the supposed
economic boom.
They've seen their lives, their real wages be like that or go
like this.
While these wealth addicts are taking the rest of the money for
themselves.
Bryan: What are you gonna do if your album suddenly sells 10
million copies and you're a millionaire?
Bill: Let's stay realistic, here.
[ Laughter ]
Bryan: Are you automatically a parasite, then?
What are you gonna do with your money?
Jello: No, what I would do --
Bryan: Who's gonna come to your door and take away the rest of
the money that goes over the 100,000?
Jello: What I would do is put that money into a foundation to
give grants for battered women's shelters.
Bryan: Then you're in control of the money, still.
Jello: Not necessarily.
Elisa: You're assuming all of these people, Bill Gates,
Michael Jordan, whoever, that they are not utilizing their extra
money to good ends.
Jello: Nobody needs 45 billion bucks.
Elisa: And he does a lot of things.
He created the entire string of Magic Johnson theaters for
underprivileged kids.
Jon: Ah, colored soaps.
That was him.
[ Laughter ]
You know?
2,000 flushes blue.
You know, that guy --
[ Laughter ]
Bill: Okay.
We'll take a commercial.
We'll be right back.
Bill: All right.
We're talking about taking away rich people's money and teaching
them a deserved lesson.
Jello: They're paybacks, though.
I mean, why not use that money, free education, free health care
for all --
after all, a right to a doctor is a basic human right by law.
Jon: They do that, though.
It's called Amsterdam.
Jello: Yeah, exactly.
Amsterdam does it better than we do, and we gotta find a way to
do it here.
Free transportation anywhere, including air travel.
Why not?
Bill: Government controlling agencies like that does not work.
I was going to ask about the flat tax.
Do you think it would sell any better if Steve Forbes didn't look
like a retarded janitor?
Anyone?
[ Laughter ]
Jello: Though he does look like a retarded janitor, he comes
across like a grinch.
You know, Snidely Forbes with that weird little smile.
Bill: Tomorrow we're gonna have Melissa Moskel, Eddie Griffin, Dweezil Zappa, Laura Linney.
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