Interview with Ihsahn. This transcript was the source material for an article that was published in Unrestrained #17. [introductions and formalities have been edited out...straight to the interview questions!] Were the arrangements that you did for this album affected at all by the work that you did with the Norwegian composer for Peccatum? Ihsahn: Well, yes, both me and Ihriel have been working with...taking lessons with a composer, so we have taken inspiration from that. In one way, yes, but also it's probably also the result of all kinds of inspiration and techniques that you pick up over the years, I suppose. And also, this album, it was fully arranged in the studio, and we were able to check out every small detail and I programmed everything in advance. Working very much in detail with it rather than having rehearsals with the band. It is the kind of procedure we use in Peccatum as well, and I suppose that I have been very much used to working in the studio environment rather than just doing rehearsals and trying to make the songs together in that situation. Every album has represented a further development in your sound, as all the existing elements are refined and new ones are introduced. What does Prometheus bring to Emperor's sound? Ihsahn: I think it's still a bit early for me to be too objective about the album. I think that it mixes some of the different things that we've done throughout almost ten years. It's part of that. I tried to put in some new elements as well, and bring it a step further. But still, I've tried to keep - not to copy, but to take inspiration from some of the things that Emperor did on the first and second albums. Compared to Equilibrium, which was probably the most different Emperor album, where we got very much more in-your-face and not as epic and floating, I think I've tried to combine all these styles into one, while keeping in mind that this was the last Emperor album. So it's almost a summation of everything that Emperor has been, but also a progression as well? Ihsahn: Hopefully [laughs]. I haven't put too much emphasis on trying to just make something that will add it all up, but that inspired me, as this was the last Emperor album. I've tried to keep very much of the Emperor stuff in, and also this is the first Emperor album that I've entirely wrote all the music to, and all arrangements and stuff. If I was to make a solo album, it would not have sounded like that. So I had to...since I was very much alone on the composition and the songs this time, I needed to take inspiration from what we've done before in order to make it an Emperor album. What would you identify as some of the new techniques that you have introduced with this album? Ihsahn: I would say that it brings the guitar arrangements further, rather than just adding keyboards on top of everything, I think I've used less keyboards on this album than compared to both Equilibrium and Anthems. And giving more of the lines to the guitar parts, without adding too many guitars. A way of keeping it maybe simpler, and getting a more complex result after all, if that makes sense. I've tried to combine more of the epic feel that we had a tendency for on the first two albums, with a bit more of the - how can I say - groovy, you know, more rocking, stuff -- Yeah, I can hear more of the epic dramatics, especially on the sixth track. Ihsahn: "In the Wordless Chamber." It's kind of fancier - trumpets and stuff. When you first began to write Prometheus, you were aware at that point that this would be the last album for Emperor, correct? Ihsahn: Yes. What, then, were some of your objectives when you first began the songwriting process? Ihsahn: Well, I started out with some of the more complex stuff, because that was the stuff that came to me, that came natural at that point. And it was during the process that I realized that bringing in some of the other influences, and bringing a more epic feel to it, was necessary. And I've also added quite a lot of inspiration from Ihriel on these parts. We keep studios at home, and apart from the drums and the actual mixing, everything was actually recorded and produced in my studio. So that is probably also why, as we said earlier on, that it is getting more in-depth with everything. I know I'm a bit vague on it, because I think that the whole process, for me personally, has been a learning experience. But to see this objectively is probably harder than ever before since I've been producer, engineer, songwriter. So I need probably a half year more to put on the album and listen to it more objectively. Tell me about the title that you selected for this album? Ihsahn: Prometheus. Well, I was inspired and influenced by Ihriel, I suppose. She has been studying ancient Greek history, and mythology and stuff like that. And I came across Prometheus as being, symbolically, the guy who stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind. And going against the gods, breaking out. And he's very much associated with figures like Lucifer. And also, we have used Icarus before as a symbol of breaking out and defying what is supposed to be right. And also for this album, we have subtitled it Discipline of Fire & Demise - where you have to break out, and something will have to perish for something new to go on. Which are different symbolic values, of course, but also it is related to the fact that we [have] end[ed] this now, and we take responsibility for this end rather than fading away naturally. I think that fits in nicely, because the role of fire can be both creative and destructive. Ihsahn: Yes, it's almost ironic how Emperor has to be a black metal band, or associated with this genre - we have gained quite a bit of popularity for being in this genre, but on the other hand, that so-called success can be very...almost demoralizing. This started out to be a very extreme genre that was challenging for people. It's not that you want to make music that people don't like, it's just that in the end it seemed to be too easily accessible, and it felt that, in the end, whatever you did, as long as it had the Emperor name on it, people would say it was great. Criticisms, whether they were good or bad, it doesn't really have an effect anymore. I feel that, in comparison, with Peccatum, which is much more musically controversial, you have that in-the-band spirit, and it's challenging for people who listen to it, and it's challenging for us as well, because we push the boundaries much more. What inspired you to take that particular story and expand upon it? I think that the story is continued throughout the lyrics, it seems like it's more of a concept. Ihsahn: Yeah, it's quite different lyrically on this album. It's somehow more streamlined, and it has a certain storyline. It's more...two or three of the first songs are kind of streamlined as in a story, then in the middle of the album it kind of folds a bit out with different perspectives, in this entering of a different world, with a different perspective. Then it has quite a harsh ending, with the [protagonist] "I" figure dying. That is a bit new to Emperor, and also it goes from first person to the storyteller's perspective, and then to the third person, so it's more varied in that sense. Lyrically, this album does represent a bit of a departure, as your dominant perspective is now the third person rather than the first, as you said. Ihsahn: And the whole concept is very much about breaking out from the conventions that you are in, and seeing things from a different perspective. And, looking at things from a different perspective, on top of that and on top of that, if you get my point. It's more of a commentary on how to view the world then, and how it's all about perspective and there's none of this objective truth that so many people speak of? Ihsahn: Yeah, that's one aspect of it. In claiming rights and wrongs, you can do it as an individual, but you cannot claim that for everybody else. So I think it's very much about breaking out of the conventions and the way to see things that you are very good - at least I am - at attaching to and not stepping away from. Regarding the concept and how it flows, the last song especially seems to speak of a duality where on the one hand there is the lyrical concept that is being expanded and completed, but it also seems to reflect upon Emperor too. It's a powerful last bit of words to come from Emperor's recorded music, I think. "Now that I am gone, lay thorns on my grave" - it's a effective way of marking your end, I think. Ihsahn: Yes, and that is an important song and an important lyric, I think. With leaving things as they are, it's also a symbolic ending to the concept of the album. This is how the album ends, and this is also how Emperor ends. Now that Emperor is gone, leave it be. Just let it be what it was, and that should be enough - so it won't be something that is brought up in everything that we might do at a later point, or comparisons, or that kind of thing. Emperor is something on its own, and it stops there, and there will be nothing coming out again, so just accept it for what it is. So there will be no possibility of a reformation, this is a very definite termination of the band? Ihsahn: Yes, I would say so. [laughs] How do you feel that the symbolism of rebellion and the pursuit of knowledge that is represented in the lyrics and the concept is representative of Emperor's own struggle over the years? Ihsahn: I suppose that is more of a personal/philosophical question, really. You could also call it a goal that it doesn't have to be what I practice necessarily. I think that everybody has a tendency to hold a bit too much onto what they believe in and are maybe not that good at questioning things. So it's not just a rebellion against everybody else thinking differently from you, but also a rebellion against yourself, maybe being a bit too comfortable in your current position. Always questioning your own internal assumptions and philosophy then? Ihsahn: Yes, I think that's nice in theory. A healthy and necessary perspective to take, even though it's very easy to try and avoid it. How does the story of Prometheus connect with your own philosophy? Ihsahn: If I could define that! I would say that it's too complicated to start comparing. So I basically used this as an inspiration, as a symbolic figure, as with Icarus, of taking that leap, doing something that in conventional terms are wrong, but for a higher purpose, and to reach further. I haven't taken the totality of the Prometheus myth and what it is associated with, just the more concrete aspects of this symbol. He was harshly punished for taking that leap, being chained to a stone with the eagle eating his liver out every day. In terms of songwriting, Emperor has managed to elevate to an artform the difficult task of representing the chaos of life in music without being chaotic. Ihsahn: If you look at the first two albums, the chaos is probably brought forth more by the sound rather than the arrangements, and the way that it was produced. Also quite a bit in the performance of the songs. I suppose Equilibrium in some ways, it was very much structured, and it is maybe the least chaotic album that we ever did. But I feel that especially Trym's drumming from the last album has brought back some of that - what can I say - thundering rolls - more hysterical kinds of atmospheres to the whole album. How would you describe the studio vibe while recording? What were some of the processes involved in arriving at this finished product? Ihsahn: Well, initially I started recording guitar riffs and programming small parts of music, whatever came to mind, and setting down sketches on my computer. I kept it open - it was not the intention that I would write everything - but Trym and Samoth were quite busy with Zyklon at the time, and in the end all of the songs were more or less finished. Not fully arranged, but the song structures were all in place. I kept on working with bits and pieces, and I programmed basic drum patterns for all of the songs to kind of indicate what I wanted for the songs, and I wrote tablatures and burned discs with click tracks and drums and prerecorded guitars, and I gave that to Samoth and Trym. So Trym more or less rehearsed the songs on his own, with the CD of the click track. I think we had one rehearsal, just me and him going through some breaks and stuff, and then we hit the studio. We recorded the drums at Akkerhaugen - the studio that we used for Equilibrium - then I got the files back to my studio and kept working with all of the layers right there. I recorded my own guitar parts, Samoth was in recording his guitar parts, and they [Samoth and Trym] went on tour after that, so I finished the album with vocals, keyboard arrangements, bass lines and stuff like that. And then we took it back to the Akkerhaugen studio and mixed it there. How would you describe your feeling upon having everything done and the album mixed? You have that finished CD in your hand... Ihsahn: At that point, especially when mastering the album, you have listened to these songs for several hours every day, and then you are expected to give a critical air to the final result. At the point where it was actually finished and you get it home in your own CD player, you just check that everything is okay and the production does not have too much bass or is too distorted, and then you just leave it. I picked it up once in a while since it was finished in May [2001], playing it to friends and stuff like that. But I really wish to wait now and be able to appreciate the album as a listener, maybe half a year from now. Even though I am very satisfied with the album, and I think that we all are. It's always like that. Just the satisfaction of having been through that process and finishing it, that is quite satisfactory. There must have been a real feeling of finality too, like this is it, this is the final, last will and testament of the band, so to speak. Ihsahn: Yes, I would have thought really that I would have been more nostalgic towards it all. But knowing that the ending process has been very long anyhow, it did not come as a brutal shock or anything. We decided to do one more album, and the ending process started there. By the time that it was finished, it was just a big relief. About when would you mark the ending process as beginning? Was it some months before you began writing songs for this album? Ihsahn: Yes, about the time that I started writing materials for a new album. I feel a big relief now that it is all finished, and I am very curious to take on tasks, working with Peccatum, and do maybe some solo stuff. And try to try out different musical styles. I feel that we went as far as we could go as Emperor, and now I'm just really eager to get on with other things. During the years, I have picked up so many other influences musically that I just need time and full dedication to execute them. You mentioned the notion of doing a solo album. Is that something that you have been considering, I take it? Ihsahn: I did a solo album with Thou Shalt Suffer, but that was more soundtrack music, something that I did side-by-side with Emperor since the beginning. The name of the band was actually the name that me and Samoth had prior to Emperor, and that just kept on as a solo thing to do more experimental stuff. And it took me almost ten years to finish it because I worked very sporadically, where I had to finish it or start writing another album. But now I'm very eager to try out different things, and do a solo album and probably have some guest artists and do a project like that. Tell me about some of the different things that you would like to explore on a solo album? Ihsahn: Oh, that's very hard to say at this point. The new Peccatum material is probably closer [to being released] than a solo album. I will probably start writing materials for the new Peccatum now, and Ihriel is now doing her solo album, so it's a continuing process. It's hard to predict the different things at this point. Let's go back to the decision to end Emperor. What factors were involved in the decision to bring the band to a close at this point in time? Ihsahn: Of course there are very many factors. But one of them is that I think we have done what we can, being Emperor. And musical differences and also differences on the way that we prefer to work. It was a [relationship based upon] contrast and difference instead of [being] constructive in Emperor for a very, very long time. But maybe reaching out of our borders now, where it would perhaps not be that constructive anymore, I just think that we all agree that we would rather take this choice together now rather than just see it go out in nothing. So I'm very comfortable that we all took this decision now, to go out with a blast rather than saying, in a half year's time, "well, we'll probably not do anything any more" - you know? Or try to make another album to sell some records or something like that. It would not be Emperor, really! [laughs] I think in some respects, the notion of going early rather than fading out is probably going to affect the strength and power of your legacy as well, as time goes on. Ihsahn: Yeah, it might. I suppose if you look at it commercially, I suppose that we are at the peak of our career. But why not just stop it there and start something else? I've tried to do things that I can be honest about and do properly, and you have to follow your heart on things. And I don't think any of us, and me personally...commercial success is nothing that matters much for me personally. And I suppose also that at this stage in life, I've done Emperor now for ten years and feel that I have been able to realize and express myself through this medium, but now I'm 25 and I still have a lot of time to start building something else and do other stuff. Your appearance over the years has changed, which I am assuming is reflective of your own interests and artistic development. Where do you see yourself at currently, and how is that manifest in your visual look? Ihsahn: I would say that I am...in a typical black metal fan's eyes, I would probably be pretty straight. I know that extreme expression, in that aspect, is not very important any more. It is just kind of irrelevant at this point, I think. I mean, the visual of what we do is of course important, but being constantly part of it, that is harder to adapt to. I don't know if you have seen any new promos or not, but it's nothing really spectacular I would say. It's been harder...probably after doing the corpse paint, it was much easier because the visual expression was a collective link to what black metal was all about. We dropped that after the first album, but we still did lots of warrior imagery and we tried a more mechanical imagery on Equilibrium, but now we're kind of all out of ideas. Finding a personal visual expression for this last Emperor album is very hard, I find it very hard to adapt to in this way. One of the things that I find about the band, from a fan's perspective, is that different people like different albums by the band for very different reasons, and they are often very adamant in their conviction that that is the best Emperor album. I think that says a lot about the band's recorded material over the years. Ihsahn: Yes, but when it comes to...I know several people that still prefer Anthems, or some even say In The Nightside Eclipse. And I am like that with bands that I like, I have my preferences - they may be ten year old albums, but it's that nostalgic...often it's the first album by a band that I get into that I like the best, because we get that attachment to it. What I feel that I owe fans in that respect, of their expectations and dedication to what we do, is to do my absolute best at any given point. If most people prefer the Anthems album, I would know how to make another album sound like the Anthems album, but then I would be kind of fooling myself and fooling an audience, because it wouldn't come from the heart. So what I feel that I owe them, even if the fans like it or they don't, I feel that I have to deliver the best that I can in the present, and not referring to something that is in the past. What do you feel will be Emperor's long-term impact upon black metal? Ihsahn: Hopefully that people will remember it as an important part of extreme metal, and for inspiration. It's a bit strange because the bands that I have been very inspired by have meant a lot to me in a very specific way, an almost spiritual way. It's hard to picture yourself in that position, that people are diehard fans, that people started playing guitar because of Emperor, started a band because of Emperor, started using keyboards because of Emperor. It's strange. But still, I feel priveleged to be a part of something that can inspire others in the way that other bands and other musicians and other composers have inspired me, at least to some extent. I just look at it in an objective view. When I meet fans who are very emotional, I don't really like that kind of...I don't like to be in the position where you are a kind of divine being, where they look at you as something that you are not. That kind of worship thing - I don't like to be in that position. But on the other hand, I just try to put myself out of that [situation], as I know, for me meeting some of my idols, I know that when they come over and say, "Hello, I like your album," it takes some of the mystery away. Then you realize that it's not about the person that you meet, it's more about yourself and what you associate that person with. When people meet me, if they are diehard fans and they get emotional or they get scared or they get a bit over the top, I just try let them have the mystery, and not care too much about it. What role do you think that mystery has played in Emperor over the years? Ihsahn: I think that has been one of the strengths that Emperor has had - that we have been quite mysterious and that adds to the atmosphere of the music as well. From a commercial perspective, I am quite glad that we've never been in every issue of Kerrang!. We're not in the media all of the time doing interviews or portrayed in all kinds of different situations that are unrelated to what we do. So I think that is part of keeping Emperor quite mysterious and a bit abstract to people - not too much to hold onto. I'd like to keep it that way, and we will have a lot of questions now, about why we quit, why this or that happened, people will probably make up their own minds in the end anyways, about why these things happen. I will just let people have that to themselves, as I don't want to break every illusion and mystery as that is very much what Emperor has been about. We've been quite abstract and pompous in our music and lyrics, I suppose, so it's part of the image. What would you hope that a fan would get out of listening to Emperor? Ihsahn: Whatever felt natural for them. I think that you can perceive music...the only thing that I wish is that they find it challenging. For me personally, I like challenging music that demands something of me, that makes me relate....when I have to work a bit myself to like music and understand it and get into it, I get a much closer attachment to it. And also I think, at least from my experience, that the sensation from that is much greater than that which is very easily understood. How do you feel that your own personal philosophy has guided Emperor over the years? Ihsahn: I suppose that it is a struggle, both musically and lyrically, and often in quite a sore way. I suppose it's also been very chaotic, as having very strict guidelines and strict answers. You try and give them all of the time, but sometimes you reach for an answer, but then you have to have ten more questions. So attaching my own philosophy...my philosophy over the last ten years could be pretty much anything. If you wander from side to side, and backwards and forwards, I think that in itself has colored what we have done. We have been quite ruthless in both philosophy and belief. How do you think that your own philosophy has developed over the years and changed? Ihsahn: Hopefully to be more constructive (laughs). It would be rather embarrassing if I had the same view of life today as when I was fifteen. That would be quite bad in everybody's perspective, I would think. I hope that I have become more open-minded, getting wider and taking the widest perspective on things, and I hope I will go on doing that. [and on that introspective note, for all substantive purposes the interview ends, minus the usual closing remarks]

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