on-reflection-digest      Monday, August 2 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1800



gg: Elephants Gerald
gg: Re: RE:/ Timothy Pure
Re: gg: The Magic Elf sez, "Eat your macaroni!" (or Listen to Some  Metal)
gg: RE: Roye Albrighton IRC chat
gg: I'm back!
gg: Japan import
Re: gg: Aagghh!  Ricky Martin / Alice Cooper
Re: nongg: Renaissance
Re: gg: a visit with Dr.Blood
Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood
gg: Gentle Giant Octopus (or a Book is a Book is a Book...)
gg: Re: 6 year olds listening to GG
no-gg: Ricky Martin and packaging
Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood
Re: gg: Re: on-reflection-digest V1 #1797
Re: gg: Re: no GG: Gregory Bloch
Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood
gg: Bogged down.
gg: Re: Barrett; McLaughlin
gg: Heap of poo!
Re: gg: Bogged down.
nogg: "w"/The Haunting (sorta long)
Re: gg:Ambrosia
gg: My next radio-show
no gg: Everything But The Giant
Re: no gg: Everything But The Giant
gg: Heads or Tails (or the Final Frustration?)
gg: Somewhere we long to travel...
gg: 2600 patch sheets to the wind/The synth bores club

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:32:46 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: gg: Elephants Gerald

At 7:36 AM -0400 8/2/99, Julius Saroka revealed:
>that's why i haven't listened to the radio (except for classical, news, and
>the local NPR outlet) since 1978!

AHA!  That explains it.....elementary, my dear Watson.  Or, to quote John
Lennon, Ella Fitzgerald my dear whopper.

Best,
Rich

Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:25:34 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: gg: Re: RE:/ Timothy Pure

Daniel is did writing:
> Bert Vijn"  wrote:
> 
> > > Buy the new TIMOTHY PURE album called "Island Of The Misfit Toys". I 
> >think
> > > this will get my vote for one of the all time classic Prog. Rock albums 

Now please don't avoid buying this album because I said that. It was Reg who said
it, not me. Please avoid buying it because HE said it.  ;^)

c-ya,
v-b

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:46:21 +0200
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: Re: gg: The Magic Elf sez, "Eat your macaroni!" (or Listen to Some  Metal)

WftW John Eric:
> I have the Cynic's  4 cut release "Beat the Cynics", from 1980.

I've done a search. "Beat the Cynics" is a punk EP from 1980 by Cynics. They
were/are an Alaskan band.

The band DJ Doug refers to is Cynic. Their only album is "Focus" from 1993,
released on Roadrunner Records (the Derek one indeed).
They put out a few singles/demos before that, but disbanded shortly after
"Focus".

Personally I dig Cynic. Not that it's GG quality (who is?).
I'd call this prog metal. Death metal with jazz and King Crimson. Within the
genre, it's my clear fave, probably accompanied by some of The 3rd And The
Mortal's output and some of Voivod's. Must say the genre is not what I know most
about or of.

When listening to "Focus", please don't let ""Veil of Maya" be the only track.
The death metal singing on that track (done by a guest singer) might put you off.

Cynic's official home page is at: http://www.veilmaya.org/cynic/
You can hear a few mp3 song snippets there (live).

c-ya,
v-b

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:20:47 -0700
From: William Tindall 
Subject: gg: RE: Roye Albrighton IRC chat

Hello again everybody,
	I very elegantly failed to include the URL for Yahoo chat in my previous post.  DOH!!!
	So here it is.   http://chat.yahoo.com/?room=music@entertainment

Also, for first-time users, like myself, chat help:

	http://help.yahoo.com/help/chat/

And if you need more help, e-mail Jack at Cnektar@aol.com.

iRCheers,
	   Bill T 

- -----Original Message-----
From:	William Tindall 
Sent:	Sunday, August 01, 1999 2:44 PM
To:	'on-reflection@lists.uoregon.edu'
Cc:	'PFM@cup.com'
Subject:	gg: Roye Albrighton IRC chat

Hail and Ciao a Tutti!
	Any Nektar/Roye Albrighton fans won't want to miss a chat with Roye in a Yahoo chatroom, next sunday, August 8, at 21:30 GMT (1:30 p.m. Pacific, 4:30 Eastern, 9:30 England).  Look for Cnektar under who's chatting and go there.
	Seeya then!
		        Bill T

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 09:51:47 -0400
From: "Stephen Shores @ work :P" 
Subject: gg: I'm back!

Hey guys, I'm glad to be back. My email at work got shut off for some
reason, so I wasn't able to enjoy the lively conversation!

	Has any new information come up about Totally Out Of The Woods, the
rerelease of In A Glass House, or Under Construction 2? (Pls email me
about this, as I'm sure this info has been posted before!)

God bless you guys, and happy GG'ing!

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:05:07 +0700
From: "Renaud Pilleul" 
Subject: gg: Japan import

Hi,
I don't know why I am so keen on these Japanese pressings when it comes to
finding old progressive CD re-print.

Maybe because of the faithfully reproduced sleeve, especially those which
are a *perfect* reduced copy of the LP, even with the thin plastic
protection sheet on the CD itself (perfectly useless but so cute...).
or, because they do not fill up the remaining space with"unreleased,
remix,..." tracks, which is fine though, but for me entails the integrity of
the original release, whatever it was..

or else because they don't sell you the CD with a huge "Nice Price" or Best
Value" sticker which make you feel like you are really buying some lousy
stuff..

Or simply because of the quality of sound...


Anyway, no need to justify anymore on the higher price I normally pay for
it: I would be very grateful to anyone sending me an e-mail order company
where i can get these Jap-imports...for bands as, of course GG, but also
Camel, Hawkwind, KC, Tangerine Dream,... 

Take care

Renaud.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:53:28 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: Aagghh!  Ricky Martin / Alice Cooper

hail,
re:


Mark Wendt - MTO wrote:

>
> BTW - has anyone heard Alice Cooper's latest?  From what I hear he's a
> born-again Christian now - no joke!  His latest CD is a Christian oriented
> piece - quite theatrical with a comic book type fold-out...
> Sorta like dramatic neo-prog but not as complex!  ;-)

Not sure if it's the same album, probably not since the one i'm scribing about
happened a few years back, but his The Last Temptation was a collaborative effort
with writer Neil Gaiman. It came out simultaneously as a rather attractive comic
and as a CD, with cover art by no less than Dave McKean. Probably my favorite
Alice Cooper.
This was NOT the first time Alice had his own comic, either- he had a one shot in
an anthology comic called either Marvel Fanfare or Marvel Premiere, I forget
which. One title dealt with established marvel characters, and the other was a
tryout book. Alice was in #50, and it was an EC parody story. fun, but the Gaiman
comics had some TEETH.
still,
dg
np: Hatifeld & the North: Rotter's Club (sweetie is playing Alice Cooper in the
other room!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:57:55 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: nongg: Renaissance

hail again;
re:


Claudio666@aol.com wrote:

> 
>
> I don't know  if I consider this prog, since a lot of their music was
> rocked-up classical, but it certainly fit in very nicely with everything else
> I was listening to at the time.

this brings up a pet peeve of mine. Seems to me if we're calling music
PROGRESSIVE, it's counterproductive to be narrow in our definition of what does
and doesn't fit into the term. To me, anoyne who's trying something fresh with
blending musical forms is by definition a progressive musician. I now we've been
down this road before, but it always bugs me.
still,
dg
still playing Hatfield!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:01:01 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: a visit with Dr.Blood

hail;
re:
astley@ica.net wrote:

> Hi Ant,
>
> Mature Student visit with Dr.Blood to discuss the results of my recent bone
> marrow test:
>
> DB: I have good news..and I have bad news..
>
> MS: give me the good news first..
>
> DB: your test revealed nothing life threatening..
>
> MS: oh thats great!...now give me the bad news..
>
> DB: your blood count did produce some odd time signatures..
>
> MS: what does this mean?
>
> DB: it means that you are very vulnerable to socially unacceptable music
> genre such as prog rock,fusion jazz,rio and many other types of
> pretentious,pompous so-called music...this can be very addictive,it could
> even result in an insatiable appetite for those past-it,over-the-hill-gang
> called "Gentle Giant"

HA!!!!!!
Reminds me of the classic bit from Mike Nesmith's Elephant parts (my copy has
subtitles in Japanese, which makes it really more fun to watch) about the Rock
Clinic and Dr. Nez lamenting, "There's no cure for Bee Gee's disease."
still,
dg
Hatfield plays on

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood

I think JohnEric wrote:

> > >Hey, you mentioned Jaco P., how do you feel about Morris Pert?


and Scott Steele obviously replied:

> > He's divine.  An underrated Brand X album is Masques, and Morris wrote a
> > lot of the coolest tunes on that one.  - S.


which prompted JohnEric to say:

> I liked Masques!  Yes, let's compare calendars when you get back.


Masques is my favorite.  I saw Brand X on tour for that one, at the 
Paradise in Boston.  Pretty cool to watch Pert racing around all his odd 
percussion instruments.

I vaguely remember a double album of "world percussion" or something he 
masterminded -- did it have a blue lion on the cover? -- that I listened 
to once or twice, but it didn't grab my attention.

Has Morris Pert ever encountered Neil Peart...?


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:14:28 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: Gentle Giant Octopus (or a Book is a Book is a Book...)

GLENNLILJE@aol.com wrote:
>Hello Giants & Dwarfs alike;
>I happened to see a book in the Barnes & Noble website that is called 
>"Gentle Giant Octopus."  It has nothing at all to do with our heroes... 

(DJ)I checked this book out from ISU and read it to my kids (a couple of 
(DJ)times). We thoroughly enjoyed it...the cover is an eye-catcher... 
(DJ)I have the info around here somewhere (Book # and author, etc.). 



	CiViLiAN 
	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:20:41 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: Re: 6 year olds listening to GG

">ThunderGirl 3:16" wrote:
>Hey Civillain,

Hail! 

>An overwhelming sense of deja-vu....I did that..only I'm 14 and it was 
>about 8 months ago! :)

Cool! 

>6 years old..wow, you are doing something right. Congratulations, your 
>son will grow up to be a wierd freak who listen to "hippy" music...wait, 
>just like us! What could be better?!

Danger, Will Robinson! Oh no...it's too late to save him...much too late... 
(...thanx for the warm fuzzies!) 






	CiViLiAN 
	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: no-gg: Ricky Martin and packaging

On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Daniel V.Gomes wrote:

> Enjoying Rick Martin's music (I think I have repeated this next
> statement quite a lot lately :-) ) it's a matter of taste, but I must
> admit I don't care for his music. The problem I see is that he seems to
> be an artist "made up" by a big label to become a major hit.


I don't think I've ever heard Ricky Martin -- though I've seen his 
picture on the television news and on magazines -- and I'll probably die 
happy if I never do.

But being packaged and "made up" by a big label is not a guarantee of 
utter mediocrity and forgetability.  The Monkees and (dare I say it?) the 
Banana Splits were package deals and I know some of us here have a 
fondness for certain cuts.  For that matter, would the Beatles ever have 
made it out of Liverpool and Hamburg without a little packaging?  
Admittedly, the talent was THERE, but sometimes it needs a little boost 
and friends in high places to get the proper level of exposure.


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 09:23:52 PDT
From: "Brad Oldham" 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood

Hail all,

David J. Loftus wrote:

>Has Morris Pert ever encountered Neil Peart...?

I don't know.  But to my eyes, Morris Pert has always looked like he could 
be Geddy Lee's brother.

Brad

np: The Beat Farmers - Viking Lullabys


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: on-reflection-digest V1 #1797

On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Daniel V.Gomes wrote:

> I think you are right, masses never really cared for
> chosing music for their own.
> I my self heard radio maybe 15 times in my whole life.
> Daniel


Like Dr. Julius, I listen almost exclusively to NPR and my own tapes.  
There is a smaller classical music station and a highly-regarded jazz 
station, but their signals are too weak to reach many of the places I go 
in the city.

Unlike Dr. Julius, I occasionally tune in the local "alternative rock" 
station to get a little fix of NIN, Offspring, or whatever is new;  the 
classic rock station to sing along with songs I know all the lyrics to;  
or the Fifties station for ditto with a higher silliness quotient.


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David J. Loftus" 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: no GG: Gregory Bloch

On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Ant wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Benjamin 
> 
> >Gregory Bloch, the violinist on _Jet Lag_, was quite impressive--a 
> >bit more so than Pagani, who was still quite a good musician. Really 
> >dig that violin intro that begins side two of that album.
> 
> 
> I heard an interesting fact about Paganini recently at a concert which
> featured his guitar compositions. Apparently the reason he got to compose
> for guitar was that he was slung in jail for getting a girl pregnant 
> and not being able to support her. A fellow inmate had a guitar which 
> was the only instrument available and which he lent to Pag. He learned 
> to play it and had plemty of time on his hands to do a bit of composition.


This is Paganini, the violin wizard from more than a century ago -- the 
guy whose compositions for the violin were redone by Lizst for the piano, 
right, Ant?  Not the Pagani of PFM whom Alan was talking about.


David Loftus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:49:14 -0700
From: Bob Angilly 
Subject: Re: gg: Re: Songs from the Wood

Have seen Morris Pert with Pierre Moerlin as part of the Mike Oldfield Group
during the "Five Miles Out" Tour (early 80's).  They were great together with
both playing a wide variety of drums, marimbi and various percussion thingys,
plus you know what's.

Brad Oldham wrote:

> Hail all,
>
> David J. Loftus wrote:
>
> >Has Morris Pert ever encountered Neil Peart...?
>
> I don't know.  But to my eyes, Morris Pert has always looked like he could
> be Geddy Lee's brother.
>
> Brad
>
> np: The Beat Farmers - Viking Lullabys
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:14:57 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: Bogged down.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Lottich, Steve 

>Ant:
>> recently listened to The Heart of Things and Time Remembered which are
>> simply wonderful albums by our John.
>
>You keep your albums by the toilet???  HAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


Yeah well some people take a newspaper to read. I like to browse album
covers.

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:06:21 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: Re: Barrett; McLaughlin

- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Steele 
>>I recently listened to The Heart of Things and Time Remembered which are
simply wonderful albums by our John. The former with a band and the latter
mainly solo acoustic with some augmentation by an Italian trio of
acoustimusicians. This one is inspiring for struggling guitar students like
myself. You can actually understand what's happening fairly easily.  BTW
it's his variations on Bill Evans numbers.
>
>Nice dinner music, huh Ant?

Well you have to be in the right mood. I found it was nice for sitting on
the porch in the sun with a glass of sangria music.

> I like Live at the Royal Festival Hall too, what a tour de force by John,
Trilok Gurtu, and >Kai Eckhardt on bass.  Phew!  - S.


I was there for that one. In fact I've seen him every year at the RFH for
the last 8 or so.

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:20:50 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: Heap of poo!

- -----Original Message-----
From: James Warren 
>But one band I still cannot
>stomach was Uriah Heep (sorry Diana).  I credit Ken Hensley for his
>fine playing and other efforts.  But Uriah Heep (esp. the lyrics, and
>grating, falsetto pseudo-operatic vocals) is stuff I just cannot listen
>to or take seriously at all.  It is like Queen-meets-Humble
>Pie-meets-prog-meets-Spinal Tap-meets-"Hocus Pocus", imho ;-).  Clyde
>Clifford is also a Uriah Heep fan.  I bet I'm in the minority up here
>about this (and I'll recognize and respect the majority position).


Actually I like Queen and Humble Pie but I am firmly with you as regards UH.
Heap is a what it is IMO. One of the first concerts I went to was by this
band and it made me wonder if I wanted to be a rock fan at all. The audience
were like the muppets too. They were all doing animal impressions.

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:03:10 EDT
From: SPBrader@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: Bogged down.

Ant admits:

<< >You keep your albums by the toilet???  HAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!>>
 
 
 <>

Remind me never to go into a record store with you again!!

Si
n.p. R.E.M.: New Adventures in Hi-Fi

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:28:01 -0500 
From: "Lottich, Steve" 
Subject: nogg: "w"/The Haunting (sorta long)

JEE:
> > >     ...He 
> > > looked defiant,
> > > but w

then me:
> > But "w"?  But WHAT???  C'mon, I'm on the edge of my s

then JEE again:
> He looked defiant, but _ent away quietly shaking his head.

Now me again:
Thank you!  I had to wait all weekend for that!  Now I can sleep.  zzz.....
_ _ _

> JEE and wife will be checking out the following for weekend fun:  The
> Blair movie thing, and the Haunting.  Has anyone in this 
> group seen these?
>  Opinions only from movie thrill seekers, please.

This is a bit late, so I guess you've already seen these films.  But I'll
give you an opinion anyway.

My wife and I saw "The Haunting" last week.  Whether you like it depends on
what you're looking for.  The original was released in 1963.  Both movies
are somewhat based on the book "The Haunting of Hill House" by Shirley
Jackson.  Apart from that, they couldn't be more different.

The old one was scary in a more subtle way; it played on your imagination
more.  It was creepy without ever showing any ghosts or blood, just a lot of
noise.  Very moody and atmospheric.  This version starred Julie Harris,
Claire Bloom, Richard Johnson and Russ Tamblyn.

The new movie is in your face.  It's a special effects bonanza.  Now, I love
special effects films, but this one went way over the top in places.  A lot
of great effects, but many cheesy and hokey ones, too.  Especially the
sculptures of children trapped in the house.  This one starred Liam Neeson,
Catherine Zeta-Jones (drool), Owen Wilson and Lili Taylor.

This movie is a classic example of the difference between the old and new
ways of making movies.  Making you use your imagination vs. giving you
everything up front.  Both equally valid methods, so after all this
rambling, it comes down to personal taste.  We both prefer the old version,
but we would probably have liked the new one better if we hadn't seen the
original.  Also if the effects were used more imaginatively.  Now we gotta
read the book.

BTW, the book and films are not to be confused with the movie "The Legend of
Hell House" (1973), which was based on the book "Hell House" by Richard
Matheson.  Starring Pamela Franklin, Roddy McDowall, Clive Revill and Gayle
Hunnicutt.

Well folks, we're outta time, so goodbye!

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:40:17 PDT
From: "Alan Benjamin" 
Subject: Re: gg:Ambrosia

Hi Marc,

>The last word on the release of the first two Ambrosia CD's came out
>this spring as a press release....
>
>"The group continues to work with Warner Bros. & the archives
>division, namely David McCleese @ Rhino Records, to fulfill their
>promise to package the first two Ambrosia albums, Ambrosia &
>Somewhere I've Never Travelled,  together--seperate CD's & liner
>notes in a double jewel case.
[snip]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully they'll get their act together quickly and 
have this out before too long. It is increasingly difficult to live without 
a pristine recording of "The Brunt" and "Danse with me George (Chopin's 
Plea)"--not to mention the other great material--on hand. :-) Will have to 
live off "And..."/"Somewhere I've Never Travelled" from the _Anthology_ CD 
until then. (Damn those crappy 20th Century pressings!)

>http://www.ambrosiamusic.com/

I thought that's where I originally read about the first two albums being 
reissued on CD in July of 1999 (several months ago).

Take care,


Alan

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Benjamin
e-mail: adbenjamin@earthlink.net
Advent Home Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~adbenjamin/advent.html
- -------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 20:58:50 +0200
From: "Robert Eksteen, Leiden" 
Subject: gg: My next radio-show

Hello friends,

My next show, wednesday 3 august, 5 PM European, in RealAudio on
http://www.omroep.nl/concertzender/ra/, will be a Jade Warrior special. One
hour of "Home-made-new-age":
 
Jade Warrior

01. The Traveller
02. A Prenormal Day At Brighton
03. Masai Morning
04. Telephone Girl
05. Snake
06. Joanne
07. Obedience
08. Clouds/Mountain Of Fruit And Flowers/Waterfall/Red Lotus
09. Monkey Chant
10. Sun Ra/Sun Child
11. River Song/Carnival

I know there must be Jade warrior-fans, out there. I'll be seeing you next
wednesday!

Best,


Robert Eksteen, Leiden, The Netherlands

rke@xs4all.nl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:03:39 -0400
From: "Jerry McCarthy" 
Subject: no gg: Everything But The Giant

Alan Benjamin wrote:
>
> (That reminds me: What's the scoop on the release of
>  the first two Ambrosia albums on CD?) 
 
Alan (and Kiirja and Marc) ... domestically, I can't say, but the first
and third are currently showing up on pre-order lists around the Web as
Japanese imports. Thoughtscape Sounds, for one, has them listed, but
pricey. However, I e-mailed Thoughtscape about them a week ago and have
heard zilch so far (typifying the long history of searching for digital
Ambrosia). 


JohnEric wrote:

> Run, don't walk, to buy that ELP tribute!  

Biffy countered:

> I just got this last week, and I must say it's the absolute worst album I've 
> wasted my money on all year...  I couldn't 
> even get more than halfway through it on first listen; it was just too 
> painful.  And that was before I'd even heard the ultra-embarrassing version 
> of "The Sheriff" or the rancid rewrite of "The Endless Enigma."

I'm somewhere in the middle of you two, but more towards the
who-needs-it? side. I feel that way about most tribute albums, though. I
like a covers/tribute album to contain some radical interpretations and
this one, like most, mostly misses the opportunity. Every once in a
while an artist will cover a song & really make it their own, possibly
even surpassing the original, but nothing on here will make me forget my
ELP albums. I'd much rather hear somebody try a wacky string quartet (or
kaen, maybe? :-) version of, say, a Tarkus -- with OR without a groove
- -- even if it fails miserably, than a note-for-note rehashing of it.
That would be far more interesting to me.

BTW, many on O-R absolutely LOVE to bash Greg Lake and his waistline and
do so gleefully anytime they've got the chance, but sit down and listen
to the vocals on this tribute album and THEN tell me that the guy didn't
have one of the greatest voices in rock. Ever. Period.

A friend loaned me the ELP tribute at NEARfest in June, but
coincidentally I didn't get to actually play it till yesterday, so my
critique is still fresh in my mind. Specifically on the tracks Biffy
mentioned, my comments are: on The Sheriff, the organ break obliterates
the Western feel of the song (which I always felt married well to the
lyrics) and Trent Gardner's out-of-place vox on the outro never allow it
to recover; and on Endless Enigma, a few tolerable moments during the
softer middle don't come close to making up for the rather mundane &
forgettable heavier moments (and sledgehammer approach).

There *were* a few things I liked about the album: the percussive
approach to Bitches Crystal, the Guillory/Mastelotto treatment of
Toccata, hearing Goodman's violin lead on Hoedown, and the rhythmic
playfulness during portions of The Barbarian.


JEE (again):

> what about Renaissance?  Did anyone really like them at all, or were they as
> boring as I remember them to be?  I think I was Dregs, Genesis, and Gentle
> Giant spoiled at the time I ran across one of their LPs.
> [snip]
> Cooper's last studio album was superb, and as close to prog rock as
> anything he's ever done.

So you love a tribute album to my favorite prog band that I'd much
rather live without, you're bored by and dismissive of my
second-favorite prog band and wonder if *anyone* ever liked them, and
you think that Alice Cooper's latest maybe borders on prog. Hmmm ....
it's pretty amazing that you & I would ever agree on ANYthing, JEE, but
I guess we'll always have GG!  ;-)


Claudio wrote:

> Saw Renaissance twice in small clubs and they put on a good show, sticking very 
> close to the recorded works.  Annie's vocals were pure.  I stopped following 
> them after "Novella" as it was getting a bit tired. 
 
Shoulda stuck around for Song For All Seasons, Claudio. They went to a
more electric approach with electric guitars co-mingling with Dunford's
acoustic and more synths augmenting Tout's piano, and I thought that
record turned out extremely well. Opening Out/Dreamer and the title
track can hold their own with the best of the Renaissance catalog of
"epics" IMO.

Saw them 9 times between 1975 and 79 (they loved to play NY) and once
more right before their ultimate demise in 1987 (a sad, painful,
had-to-be-there experience). But I would pay to hear Annie sing the
Yellow Pages (and that night, I did pay).


> My biggest gripe, in 
> revisiting a thread from a couple weeks ago, was that they didn't acknowledge 
> the composers that they based their music on. (Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, etc. 

Boy, a couple of weeks ago O-R was all over ELP for this, now it's
Renaissance! Seems like a trait of all my favorite bands, apparently.
I'll *try* to stop losing any more sleep over it.  ;-)

> I listen to Illusion more than Renaissance now.  I wonder if those are on CD 
> somewhere??

They definitely were available at one time, as well as the first two
Renaissance albums made in the Relf/McCarty days (the generally
acknowledged "classic" lineup, other than Mick Dunford, didn't join
until Prologue, technically the band's third album). I suspect you can
still find those Illusion CDs if you're so inclined.


The Nun wrote:

> Subject: Re: nongg: Divining Rods
> 
> I came up wth Jeff Lorbers Water Signs

I loved Water Sign and Wizard Island was a pretty good album, too. That
Kenny G(orelick) could really play in those years before the tragic
accident which resulted in the loss of his last name (and his scrotum).
One of the best shows I ever saw was the Lorber Fusion (with Gorelick)
opening up for the Dregs at a tiny bar in Farmingdale, NY (remember the
Pastime Pub, Rich?). Unfortunately, the place had to close down
immediately thereafter because it was missing its roof... hot show!


Bob Taylor wrote:

> I'm just re-discovering Bela Fleck, enjoying "Flight Of THe Cosmic
> Hippo" (thanks to ant) as well as "One Flew Over .."
> I was wondering where I might go from here, I know the band has put a
> lot more discs out?

Related to the Bela Fleck thread, I read in ICE yesterday that horn
player Jeff Coffin (who now tours with the Flecktones) has a new solo
album either just out or coming out very soon.


Bob Parker wrote:

> Our server (darkwing.uoregon.edu) will be going through some major upgrades
> this weekend...

Kudos and thanks, Bob, for keeping O-R going all these years! I don't
know *who* I'd blabber endlessly to (about everything EXCEPT Gentle
Giant :-) if it weren't for your good works. Thanks!


- --Jerry  (NP: Marshall Crenshaw - Life's Too Short)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:29:29 +0200
From: casglatze@t-online.de (casglatze)
Subject: Re: no gg: Everything But The Giant

Jerry McCarthy schrieb:
> Alan Benjamin wrote:
> >
> > (That reminds me: What's the scoop on the release of
> >  the first two Ambrosia albums on CD?) 
>  
> Alan (and Kiirja and Marc) ... domestically, I can't say, but the first
> and third are currently showing up on pre-order lists around the Web as
> Japanese imports. Thoughtscape Sounds, for one, has them listed, but
> pricey. However, I e-mailed Thoughtscape about them a week ago and have
> heard zilch so far (typifying the long history of searching for digital
> Ambrosia). 
>
Hi, there,
as for Thoughtscape. I know them well and have been dealing with them for years. 
Absolutely reliable, but: overworked and understaffed. Best thing would be to 
give them a quick call. If they don't know right away, they'll check right away 
for ya.
Carsten the Krautmeister
>
> JohnEric wrote:
>
> > Run, don't walk, to buy that ELP tribute!  
>
> Biffy countered:
>
> > I just got this last week, and I must say it's the absolute worst album
>  I've 
> > wasted my money on all year...  I couldn't 
> > even get more than halfway through it on first listen; it was just too 
> > painful.  And that was before I'd even heard the ultra-embarrassing version 
> > of "The Sheriff" or the rancid rewrite of "The Endless Enigma."
>
> I'm somewhere in the middle of you two, but more towards the
> who-needs-it? side. I feel that way about most tribute albums, though. I
> like a covers/tribute album to contain some radical interpretations and
> this one, like most, mostly misses the opportunity. Every once in a
> while an artist will cover a song & really make it their own, possibly
> even surpassing the original, but nothing on here will make me forget my
> ELP albums. I'd much rather hear somebody try a wacky string quartet (or
> kaen, maybe? :-) version of, say, a Tarkus -- with OR without a groove
> -- even if it fails miserably, than a note-for-note rehashing of it.
> That would be far more interesting to me.
>
> BTW, many on O-R absolutely LOVE to bash Greg Lake and his waistline and
> do so gleefully anytime they've got the chance, but sit down and listen
> to the vocals on this tribute album and THEN tell me that the guy didn't
> have one of the greatest voices in rock. Ever. Period.
>
> A friend loaned me the ELP tribute at NEARfest in June, but
> coincidentally I didn't get to actually play it till yesterday, so my
> critique is still fresh in my mind. Specifically on the tracks Biffy
> mentioned, my comments are: on The Sheriff, the organ break obliterates
> the Western feel of the song (which I always felt married well to the
> lyrics) and Trent Gardner's out-of-place vox on the outro never allow it
> to recover; and on Endless Enigma, a few tolerable moments during the
> softer middle don't come close to making up for the rather mundane &
> forgettable heavier moments (and sledgehammer approach).
>
> There *were* a few things I liked about the album: the percussive
> approach to Bitches Crystal, the Guillory/Mastelotto treatment of
> Toccata, hearing Goodman's violin lead on Hoedown, and the rhythmic
> playfulness during portions of The Barbarian.
>
>
> JEE (again):
>
> > what about Renaissance?  Did anyone really like them at all, or were they as
> > boring as I remember them to be?  I think I was Dregs, Genesis, and Gentle
> > Giant spoiled at the time I ran across one of their LPs.
> > [snip]
> > Cooper's last studio album was superb, and as close to prog rock as
> > anything he's ever done.
>
> So you love a tribute album to my favorite prog band that I'd much
> rather live without, you're bored by and dismissive of my
> second-favorite prog band and wonder if *anyone* ever liked them, and
> you think that Alice Cooper's latest maybe borders on prog. Hmmm ....
> it's pretty amazing that you & I would ever agree on ANYthing, JEE, but
> I guess we'll always have GG!  ;-)
>
>
> Claudio wrote:
>
> > Saw Renaissance twice in small clubs and they put on a good show, sticking
>  very 
> > close to the recorded works.  Annie's vocals were pure.  I stopped
>  following 
> > them after "Novella" as it was getting a bit tired. 
>  
> Shoulda stuck around for Song For All Seasons, Claudio. They went to a
> more electric approach with electric guitars co-mingling with Dunford's
> acoustic and more synths augmenting Tout's piano, and I thought that
> record turned out extremely well. Opening Out/Dreamer and the title
> track can hold their own with the best of the Renaissance catalog of
> "epics" IMO.
>
> Saw them 9 times between 1975 and 79 (they loved to play NY) and once
> more right before their ultimate demise in 1987 (a sad, painful,
> had-to-be-there experience). But I would pay to hear Annie sing the
> Yellow Pages (and that night, I did pay).
>
>
> > My biggest gripe, in 
> > revisiting a thread from a couple weeks ago, was that they didn't
>  acknowledge 
> > the composers that they based their music on. (Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, etc. 
>
> Boy, a couple of weeks ago O-R was all over ELP for this, now it's
> Renaissance! Seems like a trait of all my favorite bands, apparently.
> I'll *try* to stop losing any more sleep over it.  ;-)
>
> > I listen to Illusion more than Renaissance now.  I wonder if those are on
>  CD 
> > somewhere??
>
> They definitely were available at one time, as well as the first two
> Renaissance albums made in the Relf/McCarty days (the generally
> acknowledged "classic" lineup, other than Mick Dunford, didn't join
> until Prologue, technically the band's third album). I suspect you can
> still find those Illusion CDs if you're so inclined.
>
>
> The Nun wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: nongg: Divining Rods
> > 
> > I came up wth Jeff Lorbers Water Signs
>
> I loved Water Sign and Wizard Island was a pretty good album, too. That
> Kenny G(orelick) could really play in those years before the tragic
> accident which resulted in the loss of his last name (and his scrotum).
> One of the best shows I ever saw was the Lorber Fusion (with Gorelick)
> opening up for the Dregs at a tiny bar in Farmingdale, NY (remember the
> Pastime Pub, Rich?). Unfortunately, the place had to close down
> immediately thereafter because it was missing its roof... hot show!
>
>
> Bob Taylor wrote:
>
> > I'm just re-discovering Bela Fleck, enjoying "Flight Of THe Cosmic
> > Hippo" (thanks to ant) as well as "One Flew Over .."
> > I was wondering where I might go from here, I know the band has put a
> > lot more discs out?
>
> Related to the Bela Fleck thread, I read in ICE yesterday that horn
> player Jeff Coffin (who now tours with the Flecktones) has a new solo
> album either just out or coming out very soon.
>
>
> Bob Parker wrote:
>
> > Our server (darkwing.uoregon.edu) will be going through some major upgrades
> > this weekend...
>
> Kudos and thanks, Bob, for keeping O-R going all these years! I don't
> know *who* I'd blabber endlessly to (about everything EXCEPT Gentle
> Giant :-) if it weren't for your good works. Thanks!
>
>
> --Jerry  (NP: Marshall Crenshaw - Life's Too Short)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 19:00:20 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: Heads or Tails (or the Final Frustration?)

Biffyshrew@aol.com wrote:
>...TFTO...A few infidels claim that it "rambles"; it does no such 
>thing. That is the mating call of the short attention span; a lazy 
>way to stigmatize anything lengthy. To the contrary, the piece has 
>far too much thematic coherence to ramble....the band didn't spend 
>ten zillion hours in the studio hashing out the arrangements note by 
>note in order to come away with mere rambling.

(DJ)Well done, Biff! I guess it's about time I added my copper... 

(DJ)TFTO is, for me, simply one of the best prog attempts (by any band) at 
(DJ)real _depth_ in composition. It's length isn't really an issue with me. 
(DJ)It very simply worx as it is. Relayer is sorta like a TFTO reprise. I 
(DJ)was saddened when Yes no longer pursued this direction. 

(DJ)Many, many years ago...I was a security guard with a lot of time on my 
(DJ)hands at work. TFTO was a staple for me then. I actually brought the 
(DJ)stereo (it wasn't portable, really) to work and set it up in my office 
(DJ)each evening just to listen to Tales drifting thru the fertilizer shed 
(DJ)all thru the nite. Now there's a memory... 

(DJ)Anything worth listening to requires some serious listening time to 
(DJ)really appreciate it. This applies across the board to all art that 
(DJ)has any depth whatsoever. 


	CiViLiAN 
	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 99 19:59:31 -0400
From: kiirja 
Subject: gg: Somewhere we long to travel...

>domestically, I can't say, but the first
>> and third are currently showing up on pre-order lists around the Web as
>> Japanese imports. Thoughtscape Sounds, for one, has them listed, but
>> pricey. However, I e-mailed Thoughtscape about them a week ago and have
>> heard zilch so far (typifying the long history of searching for digital
>> Ambrosia). 
YAHOO! Sounds like there will be relief soon for the Ambrosia drought!

Thanks for this update and the other Ambrosia-related posts!

k.
np: Spocks Beard: Day for Night

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Aug 99 19:59:33 -0400
From: kiirja 
Subject: gg: 2600 patch sheets to the wind/The synth bores club

Hail and Arp Arp!

I went rooting around amongst my recently unpacked books to look for my 
2600 Owners Manual and found the stack of patch sheets I used to document 
the testing procedure for 2600s. What fun! Those were some fun days! 
Since the guys couldn't hear 20K they'd set one of the 2600 back units to 
20K while I was at lunch because they knew if would make me scream....so 
I'd walk back into the testing area and have to track down which machine 
they'd turned on. I'm sure they must have called me "old bat ears" (and 
worse) behind my back! ;-) But I got back at one of the techs by wiring a 
power supply backwards one day. He staggered over to my bench later that 
afternoon, eyeballs spinning and said to me "If you didn't like me you 
just had to say so! You didn't have to try to kill me!" He *did* say it 
with a wan smile--after all, all is fair in war and music! 

Anyway...I wanted to check up on the definition of "noise". (Not as in 
"All the noise, noise, noise" a la Whoville!) 

Noise is generated by an aperiodic waveform, in other words, one that 
does not demonstrate any repeating patterns. 
"In a complex waveform representing many frequencies simultaneously, some 
frequencies may be weakened, strengthened or removed entirely by 
filtering." (It then explains LOW PASS, HIGH PASS, NOTCH and BAND 
filters) "Human ears tend to give more attention to the higher 
frequencies in WHITE NOISE. It contains all the frequencies that are 
audible. If white noise is filtered [to a narrower audio range] it is 
called PINK noise." 

So I haven't forgotten *everything* yet! Good to know that all the dust 
and cobwebs, I do actually remember something useful! :-)

kiirja
np: Porcupine Tree: Signify
ne: Milanos again! 

------------------------------

End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1800
************************************

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