on-reflection-digest     Friday, October 1 1999     Volume 01 : Number 1890



no gg: Alive And Well And Living In With My Family
gg: 7 deadly sins
Re: gg: 7 deadly sins
gg: Pip Pyle's 7 Year Itch /Supersister /The Church - "Box Of Birds"
Re: gg: 7 deadly sins
gg: more digital audio mania
gg: Re: Annie Haslam
gg: Ladder's tour
Re: gg: Ladder's tour
gg: Response to Scott on the potential of a starched back hair opportunity in NYC
gg: L8 Tron
gg: more glue
gg: Glue job! It's a bug job.
gg: About Gentle Giant
Re: gg: more digital audio mania
gg: Re: more digital audio mania
Re: gg: more digital audio mania
gg: Bruford in Boston
Re: gg: Ladder's tour
gg: Darkness; explanation; Ladder; senior citizens; Everydays; Mets; HtM; sloth; Genesis; puppy; SBeard
Re: gg: About Gentle Giant

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:54:23 +0100
From: "Jorunn Nome & Bert Vijn" 
Subject: no gg: Alive And Well And Living In With My Family

Hi all y'all!!!

Having enjoyed a Speedy Ricuverri in hospital (in two ways - thanks, Di!), I'm
back and at your service again.

I'd like to thank everyone deeply for the many phone calls that made my second
hospital week a lot more enjoyable than my first!
This was great support, kids!


Now, two working weeks later than when I left my inbox last time, it has grown
enormously. Consequently, I'll have to delete many messages unread or half-read.
If you don't get a reply to your beautiful and great mail, please be assured it is
NOT a personal thing. I can't possibly relate to all messages.


Thanks again for the calls!

c-ya,
v-bert


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://home.sol.no/~vijn/
http://home.sol.no/~vijn/h-gorgg.htm   Gorgg
http://home.sol.no/~vijn/h-gorgg-noflash.htm Gorgg w/o Macromedia Flash
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:55:01 -0400
From: Bert Rubini 
Subject: gg: 7 deadly sins

> >(all songs about religion, sex [yeah!], and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins).
>
> What was on the Sloth CD?  What a kick!  This is a great idea.  - S.
>
It *is* a cool idea, if I'm not mistaken Joe Jackson did
this on one of his albums (maybe "Heaven and Hell"????)

sloth songs that come to mind:

Lazy by Deep Purple
I'm so Tired
I'm Only Sleeping (Beatles)

I would be interested in knowing the line-up of the 7 deadly
sins cd.

JJW wrote:


> I also noticed that the
> crowd was almost EXCLUSIVELY white.  While it is
> uplifting to me that so many young people are
> interested in experimental and challenging music, it
> is unfortunate (esp. in places like Memphis that are
> majority black, and with some racial divisions) that
> its appeal doesn't cross those racial lines.
>
I find this comment strange.  What difference does it make?
I suspect the racial make-up of this list is also almost
exclusively  white.  How many "non-caucasians" did you see
at a GG concert?  (or a Jimi Hendrix concert, for that
matter)?

No offense intended, and I hope none is taken by anyone.
It's just that I don't understand why the excessive
caucasianality* of Phish's audience would bother you  --
after all, isn't it true for most of the bands discussed on
this list?

* (I made that up)

bert "excessively caucasian" rubini

np:  Coldcut "Music for 18 Musicians"  (the Steve Reich
piece, re-done "electronica style")

- --
My homepage - now updated with even more boring photos
and mindless tedium!:
http://www.hcc.cc.fl.us/services/faculty/bertrubini/home.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:30:18 -0400
From: Bob Angilly 
Subject: Re: gg: 7 deadly sins

Of course you'll have to include "Sloth" by Fairport Convention (there are several live versions that
are excellent).

Bert Rubini wrote:

> > >(all songs about religion, sex [yeah!], and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins).
> >
> > What was on the Sloth CD?  What a kick!  This is a great idea.  - S.
> >
> It *is* a cool idea, if I'm not mistaken Joe Jackson did
> this on one of his albums (maybe "Heaven and Hell"????)
>
> sloth songs that come to mind:
>
> Lazy by Deep Purple
> I'm so Tired
> I'm Only Sleeping (Beatles)
>
> I would be interested in knowing the line-up of the 7 deadly
> sins cd.
>
> JJW wrote:
>
> > I also noticed that the
> > crowd was almost EXCLUSIVELY white.  While it is
> > uplifting to me that so many young people are
> > interested in experimental and challenging music, it
> > is unfortunate (esp. in places like Memphis that are
> > majority black, and with some racial divisions) that
> > its appeal doesn't cross those racial lines.
> >
> I find this comment strange.  What difference does it make?
> I suspect the racial make-up of this list is also almost
> exclusively  white.  How many "non-caucasians" did you see
> at a GG concert?  (or a Jimi Hendrix concert, for that
> matter)?
>
> No offense intended, and I hope none is taken by anyone.
> It's just that I don't understand why the excessive
> caucasianality* of Phish's audience would bother you  --
> after all, isn't it true for most of the bands discussed on
> this list?
>
> * (I made that up)
>
> bert "excessively caucasian" rubini
>
> np:  Coldcut "Music for 18 Musicians"  (the Steve Reich
> piece, re-done "electronica style")
>
> --
> My homepage - now updated with even more boring photos
> and mindless tedium!:
> http://www.hcc.cc.fl.us/services/faculty/bertrubini/home.htm

- --
Tickle me!  :-)
                                  Elmo
                           __   __
                         .'  '.'  `.
                      _.-|  o | o  |-._
                    .~   `.__.'.__.'^  ~.

                  .~     ^  /   \  ^     ~.
                  \-._^   ^|     |    ^_.-/
                  `\  `-._  \___/ ^_.-' /'
                    `\_   `--...--'   /'
                       `-.._______..-'      /\  /\
                          __/   \__         | |/ /_
                        .'^   ^    `.      .'   `__\
                      .'    ^     ^  `.__.'^ .\ \
                     .' ^ .    ^   .    ^  .'  \/
                    /    /        ^ \'.__.'
                   |  ^ /|   ^      |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:56:55 EDT
From: "Reginald Dunlop" 
Subject: gg: Pip Pyle's 7 Year Itch /Supersister /The Church - "Box Of Birds"

Hello Giants!

I'll second Earl's recommendation on Pip Pyle's CD called "7 Year Itch". 
Every self respecting Canterbury fan owes to Pip to buy it. It's classic 
Canterbury for sure, and has some real nifty sax playing by Elton Dean...as 
well as those smart ass lyrics Richard Sinclair is so well known for(and his 
vocals are phenominal). The "Strawberry Fields Forever" cover is the best 
version I've heard of the song(even better than the original, IMHO). Pip's 
"Phlakaton" is sampled in the "Strawberry" mix. It's way cool! :)

Someone asked for Supersister info.!? Supersister kick ass!!! Also, someone 
mentioned they were influenced by Frank Zappa. I concur...I say they were 
influenced by the Mothers Of Invention, rather than Zappa's solo(there's a 
big difference, IMHO). I'd say they were only influenced by the *Mothers* on 
their first LP("Present From Nancy"). Other influnces I hear on "Present" 
are Soft Machine(circa "Vol. 2"). My favourite by Supersister is the LP 
called "Iskander"(features some guests like Elton Dean, Pierre Moerlin). It 
reminds me of Soft Machine, Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator(only the 
instrumentation)...and a bit of Gong. An excellent album. In short, here's 
how I rate the albums/CDs I have:

Supersister - "Present From Nancy" ****
Supersister - "To The Highest Bidder" ***1/2
Supersister - "Iskander" ****1/2
Supersister - "Spiral Staircase" ***

"To The Highest Bidder" is kind of spacy, not quite as good as their debut 
"Present". "Spiral Staircase"...in plain English is f*cking weird, kind of 
like "The Mothers" meets "The Bonzo Dog Band". It has its real cool moments, 
but you have to be in a weird mood before listening to it. "Dangling 
Dingdongs" is a GREAT jam!!!

Someone mentioned *Pop Music* and if anyone had heard any good *Pop* these 
days? Well, the best *Pop* record I've heard since The Boo Radleys' "Giants 
Steps"(1994) would have to be the new recording by THE CHURCH. The recording 
is called THE CHURCH - "A Box Of Birds" 1999. It is an album full of covers. 
I'm certainly not into this kind of thing(this usually means the end of a 
band as they are struggling with songwriting). However, The Church make all 
these covers convincingly sound like their own. On top of all of this, it's 
what they chose to cover. Here's the track list:

1 - "The Faith Healer" by ALEX HARVEY(sounds something like Porcupine Tree 
meets The Gang Of Four...a great opening track)

2 - "It's All Too Much: by GEORGE HARRISON(also quoting Eddy Grant's 
"Electric Avenue" near the end of the track, as well as The Pretty Things)

3 - "Hiroshima Mon Amour" by ULTRAVOX(way better than U-Vox's version by 
far)

4 - "The Porpoise Song" by THE MONKEES/CAROLE KING/GERALD GOFFIN(This is a 
progified gem for sure...one of the many highlights...I'm pretty sure I hear 
a Mellotron or a Moog and it's way sublime and ethereal. It sounds like it 
should be on Pink Floyd's "Saucerful Of Secrets" album)

5 - "Decadence" by KEVIN AYERS(Oh my!!! This is fine!!!...and I mean fine! 
Cool choice for a cover too!)

6 - "The Endless Sea" by JAMES JR. OSTERBERG/IGGY POP(another great track, 
sounds ambient-like with chiming guitars and great bass)

7 - "Friction" by TOM VERLAINE/TELEVISION(I enjoy this version much better 
than Television's, and I'm a huge Television fan, some excellent guitar 
work)

8 - "All The Young Dudes" by DAVID BOWIE/MOTT THE NIPPLE ;) (This one I was 
worried about...because I find the original soooooo cheezy, yet, The Church 
lay down a version for the stoner in all of us)

9 - "Silver Machine" by HAWKWIND(right up there with the original!)

10 - "Cortez The Killer" by NEIL YOUNG(this song was tailor made for a band 
like The Church as it clocks in at 11 minutes +, it is worth the price of 
the album for this alone...also sounds something along the lines of Bark 
Psychosis and later Talk Talk).

The big bonus about this album, is that they stretch out each track while 
leaving room for some improvisation. It also has the structure of a prog. 
rock suite while each song flows together from track to track. There's only 
10 tracks on this CD, and it clocks in at 61 minutes. I highly recommend it 
for a *Pop* record. If you liked Radiohead's "OK Computer", you should like 
THE CHURCH - "A Box Of Birds"(I'm sure of it). If you like Porcupine Tree, 
you should dig this as well(The Church have a big following on the Porcupine 
Tree "P-Trans" internet mailing list).

Ciao,

REG

np: The Church - "A Box Of Birds" 1999




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:58:07 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: 7 deadly sins

hail;
re:


Bert Rubini wrote:

> > >(all songs about religion, sex [yeah!], and a seven CD series based on the Seven Deadly Sins).
> >
> > What was on the Sloth CD?  What a kick!  This is a great idea.  - S.
> >
>
> sloth songs that come to mind:
>
> Lazy by Deep Purple
> I'm so Tired
> I'm Only Sleeping (Beatles)

    And the Lou & Peter Berryman classic, Incommunicado:
Gonna keep my eyes shut
my mouth shut
stick my fingers in my ears
Plug up my nose
Put the dog out
put the light out
Lock the door shut the window down
Get the intravenous system hook it into my arm
To a bottle of whiskey 'bout the size of a barn
Gonna sit here like a stump
Incommunicado
    There are 3 more verses in the same spirit, the best line in those being:
"get old Ma Bell to disconnect the phone, put a sing on the door saying 'he ain't home' "
still,
dg
np: GG: PtF: BGO Edition

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:00:08 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: gg: more digital audio mania

Howdy folks.

The nun queried:

>So Rich...how long do we have to wait for consumer line
>DVD recorders?

They haven't arrived at a standard for it yet, as far as I can 
tell.....so until they do, we'll be romancing those CDs.  Multitrack 
professional recorders that actually store 96k, 24 bit information 
without "bit splitting" were being shown this past weekend at the 
Audio Engineering Society convention in NYC.  We're still a ways away 
from having consumer models that will do this, and the first ones 
will probably be more expensive than we'd like, anyway. Currently, 
Mackie will be releasing a 24 track, 24 bit disk recorder for $5000 
retail, sometime around the end of the year.  Tascam will have a 
similar product in that time frame.  Euphonix has a 24 track 96k, 24 
bit recorder that they sell for a ton of money......

>From: "Dan Weese" 
>Subject: Re: gg: mastering question

Dan explains Nyquist......very well, I might add, but then.......

>A 16-bit sample can contain 65,536 possible levels of sound
>dynamics. In the case of 24-bit samples, these can contain up to
>16,777,216 possible levels.  Never mind that there is, at present, no
>such thing as 24-bit resolution

You are misinformed about this sir.  I have been recording to the 
real "non-existant" 24 bit resolution for a year now.  What ever gave 
you the impression that this does not exist?

>The highest audible frequency, 20 kHz, is actually beyond the range
>of most humans

There is a lot of discussion about human perception exceeding the 
theoretical 20k limit.  I think you know this.....there are many 
tests that have been done with the filters in digital systems that 
lend credence to the idea that people do perceive above 20k.

>In short, though there might be some benefit in capturing the
>non-hearable parts, you can't hear it.

"Hearing", as exists in the ear, maybe so....but "perceiving", not 
so, some people would contend.  Personally, I dunno about frequency 
limits, but the 24 bit stuff we're doing now sounds tons better than 
the 16 bit we've had for over 15 years now.  It's clearer, the 
imaging is better, and the high end has a lot less "metallic" quality 
than was available previously.

>  When some of these jamokes sit around and make a CD,
>they create horrible tinny overbright recordings because they don't
>take into effect the actual speakers the CD will be played on

I wonder if you spend much time in mastering labs?

>From: "Drew W. Eaton" 
>Subject: Re: gg: mastering question
>
>I've another question for both Dan and Rich:  both of
>your explanations seem to follow a slightly different path (although both of
>you brough up the "bit" :-)  about half of the sampling frequency.)  Are
>these different elements of the same problem or are you just explaining them
>in different terms?

Apogee's docs do a better job of explaining this stuff than either 
Dan or I have done.  And their gear sounds fantastic.

Respectfully,
Rich





Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:26:22 -0400
From: "Drew W. Eaton" 
Subject: gg: Re: Annie Haslam

Holy Smokes...you're serious aren't you?  These are the sort of bills we got
in the 70's!  I'll be very curious about how all three of those acts sound
these days.
Drew
 >
>Hey I'll be seeing Annie tonight supporting Caravan. Amazing Blondel are
>also on the bill. I'll be there with Jesus Tapia so we'll let you know how
>she did.
>
>Ant

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:30:29 -0300
From: "Pablo" 
Subject: gg: Ladder's tour

Hello, my name is Pablo. I'm sorry by my writing. I live in Argentina 
and I speak spanish. I'm a new subscriber of "on reflection digest"
I wish tell you about Ladder's tour. Yes began their tour in 
southamerica. I saw them in Buenos Aires on September 12 and I 
didn't like their new album. They played many new song and I didn't 
like the most old songs that they played. I liked very much 
"awaken". I'm tired of listening "I've seen all good people",  
"perpetual change" and "Your is not disgrace"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:50:11 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: Ladder's tour

hail!
re:


Pablo wrote:

> Hello, my name is Pablo. I'm sorry by my writing. I live in Argentina
> and I speak spanish. I'm a new subscriber of "on reflection digest"

Hail pablo! Do not worry about your English- our Spanish is MUCH worse!

>
> I wish tell you about Ladder's tour. Yes began their tour in
> southamerica. I saw them in Buenos Aires on September 12 and I
> didn't like their new album. They played many new song and I didn't
> like the most old songs that they played. I liked very much
> "awaken". I'm tired of listening "I've seen all good people",
> "perpetual change" and "Your is not disgrace"

    I'm not a huge Yes fan, though I do like them fine. Many on this list
are bigger admirers of Yes.  do you have Any thoughts or memories of
Gentle Giant?
still,
diana
now playing: Strawbs: Halcyon Days: import edition: disc one

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:13:51 -0700
From: "Skip Rizzo, Ph.D." 
Subject: gg: Response to Scott on the potential of a starched back hair opportunity in NYC

Scott Wrote:


>
>>Jazz banjo?   I guess there's a little something for everybody.
>
>Hey John Eric, come on over and I'll play you a McLaughin banjo solo that
will starch your hair backward, and enough Fleck to convert you to a
Fleckaholic.
>
>


Hey Scott, Bring that banjo to NYC! I'm already a Fleckaholic but would
love to have my hair starched backward...

Also, regarding Keneally:

>
>It is certainly informed by the passage of time between it and the
original version.  How about this for a daydream:  Kerry, Ray, and Gary
call Mike so they can work together on a record.
>
>

In a perfect world...this would happen!!!!!!!!


Dr.Skull

Albert "Skip" Rizzo, Ph.D.
Research Assistant Professor 
Integrated Media Systems Center
and School of Gerontology
University of Southern California
3715 McClintock Ave. MC-0191
Los Angeles, CA. 90089-0191

email: arizzo@mizar.usc.edu
phone: 213-740-9819
fax:   213-740-8241

IMSC: A National Science Foundation Engineering Research Center at USC
http://imsc.usc.edu

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And back by popular demand: "Understanding is a 3-edged sword!"
                                                    Vorlon Proverb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:53:17 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: L8 Tron

- -----Original Message-----
From: dashthecat@webtv.net 

>I have received so much great information on the mellotron, and lots of
>examples of what to listen for... Any examples of other unique or
>special instruments you all would like to share?



You won't hear a Shulberry on many records.

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:14:13 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: more glue

- -----Original Message-----
From: DE Johnson 
>I don't care for that approach either. You can tell pretty quickly if a
>composer knows her/is stuff, I think, by what they choose to do
structurally
>and harmonically. It doesn't have to be complex, but it does have to work.
>
>Collage music sometimes maxe for good car toonz (int.)...


It probably depends on the length of the piece doesn't it? I mean Geir
mentions the Beatles development in Bulldog but they usually finished
writing a song in one or two sessions. If you have to come back to something
days or weeks later, the feel may have gone. You may well have forgot the
idea or lost the emotion that drove you to start it. You might want to
preserve what it was because it came in a flood of feeling and you don't
want to weave in an intellectually driven pattern of the 'theoretical right
thing to do'. So tacking a new bit on the end which also came with a flood
the muse but is quite different may be a good idea and sound great.

I like music which does this and all the pieces are strong in themselves. On
the other hand I have listened to some albums where a theme has been
developed throughout and it wish they hadn't bothered. I think Roine Stolte
tried to do this on Hydrophonia. I like a lot of the tunes on this but think
the development attempt fails.


Ant

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:53:41 +0100
From: "Ant" 
Subject: gg: Glue job! It's a bug job.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Geir Hasnes 


>Some good examples of development when the writer is unaware of what he is
doing are I am the Walrus and Hey Bulldog by John Lennon. This is world
class development technique. There was a reason why Beatles went to the top.


>The reason to talk about collages is firstly because I happen to react
because my mind is set waiting for the development - and it doesn't come. So
I feel punctured (like a tyre, don't know if you English speaking people use
that metaphor).


Yes! surprised you mentioned that chord based group the Beatles. Maybe you
remember the line "Gonna let you down and leave you flat" in 'You Can't Do
That' And more on the Beatles, isn't 'A Day in the Life' a wonderful bit of
collage?

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:56:11 -0300
From: "Pablo" 
Subject: gg: About Gentle Giant

Diana Green:
thank you for answer me.
Threre isn't much Gentle Giant fans in this place of the world, but
I'm one of them!. I have many CDs:
                    Gentle Giant
                    Acquiring the taste
                    Octopus
                    In a glass house
                    The power and the glory
                    Free hand
                    Interview
                    The missing piece
                    Civilian
                    Under construction
                    and one vinyl..!:Playing the fool 

I also have a t-shirt with the cover of the first album. It was made by 
myself! The people laugh in the street because "the gnome" seems 
a politician!
For me, the best albums are Octopus, In a glass house, The 
power... and free hand.
I like very much a song of missing piece: memories of old days
Do you agree me?
                            
                             Pablo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:18:43 PDT
From: "Dan Weese" 
Subject: Re: gg: more digital audio mania

>Dan explains Nyquist......very well, I might add, but then.......
>
>>A 16-bit sample can contain 65,536 possible levels of sound
>>dynamics. In the case of 24-bit samples, these can contain up to
>>16,777,216 possible levels.  Never mind that there is, at present, no
>>such thing as 24-bit resolution
>
>You are misinformed about this sir.  I have been recording to the
>real "non-existant" 24 bit resolution for a year now.  What ever gave
>you the impression that this does not exist?

[shrug]

Since you know what Nyquist is, perhaps you could also tell us what Johnson 
noise is, and what the linear resistor model teaches us. The topic is 
apparently in some intellectual disorder, and if
you can show me the math for a re-evaluation of this model, I will 
personally nominate you for the Nobel Prize in Physics.  You'll completely 
wow em at MIT and Cambridge, where I'm sure
you'll be ensconced in glory, the next Maxwell.

http://w3.mit.edu/8.13/JLExperiments/JLExp_43.html

For the laymen, Johnson noise is white noise, with autocorrelation function 
zero everywhere but at 0,. It has a 1/f0 frequency spectrum. Simply put, it 
doesn't matter how good your sampling
is, if you are using a microphone, you are using a resistor.  And that means 
there's a teenytiny amount of white noise in that resistor.  Now, audio 
designers work to keep that amount very
low, but it's effectively impossible to get rid of it.  It's a quantum 
effect of all resistors.  And anyone who tells you otherwise should re-take 
Physics.  In a sense, a resistor without Johnson
noise would be like a friction-free bearing, a perpetual motion machine.

Meanwhile, Rich, until you get that Nobel Prize and that Physics chair at 
MIT, I'd advise you to keep up your musical skills.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:21:49 -0400
From: "drj_saro" 
Subject: gg: Re: more digital audio mania

the right (hee-hee) honourable Hiltonius sayeth...
>
>"Hearing", as exists in the ear, maybe so....but "perceiving", not
>so, some people would contend.  Personally, I dunno about frequency
>limits, but the 24 bit stuff we're doing now sounds tons better than
>the 16 bit we've had for over 15 years now.  It's clearer, the
>imaging is better, and the high end has a lot less "metallic" quality
>than was available previously.



this starts to raise the subject of psycho-acoustics (like why with some
speakers in some rooms can you hear things happenning outside of the
sound-field ?  and of course the infamous "green ring" CD experiment.),
which is an amazingly fascinating subject that is just _screaming_ for a
good "popularization" book explaining some of the advancements in research
over the last ten or so years (if there's one out there and somebody knows
about it, please let me know, 'cause the books that i've seen, i don't want
to have to work _that_ hard to get.).

thank you for your time and attention.

Julius J. SAROKA
drj_saro@neo.rr.com
Cuyahoga Falls OHIO

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:38:18 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: Re: gg: more digital audio mania

At 2:18 PM -0700 10/1/99, Dan Weese wrote:
>>Dan explains Nyquist......very well, I might add, but then.......
>>
>>>A 16-bit sample can contain 65,536 possible levels of sound
>>>dynamics. In the case of 24-bit samples, these can contain up to
>>>16,777,216 possible levels.  Never mind that there is, at present, no
>>>such thing as 24-bit resolution
>>
>>You are misinformed about this sir.  I have been recording to the
>>real "non-existant" 24 bit resolution for a year now.  What ever gave
>>you the impression that this does not exist?
>
>[shrug]
>
>Since you know what Nyquist is, perhaps you could also tell us what 
>Johnson noise is, and what the linear resistor model teaches us.

I appear to have struck a nerve.  I'm sorry Dan.  I really wanted to 
know what gave you the impression that "real 24 bit" doesn't exist, 
and you decided to get insulted.

I invite you once again to explain why you believe that 24 bit 
recording doesn't exist?

>Meanwhile, Rich, until you get that Nobel Prize and that Physics 
>chair at MIT, I'd advise you to keep up your musical skills.

Thanks for the advice, Dan.

Best,
Rich


Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 99 19:45:10 -0400
From: kiirja 
Subject: gg: Bruford in Boston

Earthworks played two shows at the Regattabar in Cambridge MA on Sept 
29th.
Reflectioners in attendance were Jeff McClelland, Steve Williams and 
myself.

The early show was short, only a 75-minute set, much to the 
disappointment of both
audience and musicians. Bruford spent less time chatting witht he 
audience than he
has at past shows. There was no encore allowed, despite a standing 
ovation. Bruford
signed autographs and chatted with people after the show.  The last two 
tunes really
started to cook, then suddenly it was over. We really needed one more 
tune to wind 
down with! All the musicians were exceptional as usual, but I never fail 
to be totally 
amazed at the bass player... the way he can travel the neck on that 
stand-up bass is 
amazing. 
Other great local gigs coming up this Sunday!
Victor Wooten at the House of Blues
Leo Kottke at the Iron Horse
Chick Corea at Regattabar
Tell me how to be in three places at once? :-)

kiirja
- ------
Lifted entirely without okee-dokees of any kind from the Tuesday Sept 28 
Boston Globe.
"Yes Drummer Returns with Jazz Group"
By Paul Robicheau

Bill Bruford played the rock arenas as the original drummer of Yes and a 
recurring principal of King Crimson. He returns in a different guise 
tomorrow, playing the Regattabar with a new, acoustic-based edition of 
his British jazz quartet Earthworks.

"I'm quite willing to start again at the bottom, and jazz is different 
ballgame." Bruford said in a phone interview from his home outside 
London. "Just because you're in the rock scene doesn't necessarily help 
and in fact, is a hindrance"

"We're going to New York for two days at Birdland, which is one of your 
country's most hallowed jazz places, and to get from Madison Square 
Garden to Birdland is not an easy trip." he said. "Usually, if you play 
in one, they don't want you in the other. Thats the kind of rule, if you 
dangle it in front of me, that I love to break. There's also an American 
things about jazz where 'the europeans can't play' and stuff, and all 
things considered, it's great to be at Birdland and the Regattabar."

The 50-year-old drummer has exciting new Earthworks comrades in 
saxophonist Patrick Clahar, bassist Mark Hodgson (a Berklee alumnus), and 
especially keyboardist Steve Hamilton, musicians from the London scene 
who are all 20 years younger.

"The great attraction for them is that it's and international platform." 
Bruford said. "what I get is red blood, vitality and a huge amount of 
enthusiasm, and young players, which keeps me on my toes, and that's 
great So it's sort of the grandfather at the back, the Art Blakey and the 
Messengers setup."

It was jazz greats like Blakey and Max Roach who piqued the interest of a 
teenage Bruford before he joined the art-rockers Yes. "Like so many of 
the London drummers, I fell from jazz to rock in the late 60s, and that's 
where it was exciting," he said. "But now, of course, for rock drummers, 
there's not much to do there. Jazz is inevitably going to be the more 
exciting place."

"The period of rock that I was involved in was an aberration where for 
some crazy nanosecond in time, they let the musicians have a say in the 
procedures. Now it's all being clamped down on by the songwriter, record 
company and the producer, " said Brudford, who released the new 
Earthworks disc "A Part and yet Apart" on Discipline Global Mobile, the 
label founded by Crimson leader Robert Fripp, on which Bruford previously 
released CDs with guitarist Ralph Towner and Crimson bassist Tony Levin. 

"Drummers are either machines or operate to instructions, and that's nota 
place I'm going to be happy in, " said Bruford, who has migrated to the 
other extreme, fusing his penchant for shifting meter toa more 
streamlined jazz approach. "There's something unqualifiable about a jazz 
quartet in full flight that still excites the cotton socks off me."

The Earthworks lineup for the early 90s, with saxophonist Iain Bellamy 
and keyboardist Django Bates, was largely built around Bruford's chrodal 
attack on the electronic drum kit. "Immediately", it was outdated, and I 
played it beyond its design limit, and it was going to be unreliable and 
very complex to organize a nightly club tour," he said. "Returning to the 
acoustic little beast is great fun and not least of which because you 
know that it's going to work at 8 o'clock that night."

The new band fits his style, Bruford says, "I'm trying to get lighter. 
All the hip guys I know are trying to learn to play quieter. It's tough 
when you are playing with an acoustic piano. Drummers have to control 
like crazy. All the great older boys could do that - the Roaches and the 
Blakeys - and for us "stadium gods" it's a rough gig learning to brun on 
a 20-inch cymbal over conversation."

Even acoustic though, Bruford continues to experiment, using a 
symmetrical kit with matching tom-toms to each side, breaking up standard 
patterns. "The drums are flat, positioned table-top style around me, very 
like a timpani player, which is a I guess where that idea came from," he 
said. 

And don't look for his return to Crimson any time soon, such as an 
expected reunion next year. "Tony and I have opted out of this one," he 
said.  Fripp, the Crimson leader, he added, "doesn't work that often, and 
I'm definitely making a bit of headway with this jazz thing."

Not that one is likely to hear Earthworks on the radio here. "Smooth jazz 
is viewed from here in Europe as a particular American horror that 
somehow has escaped, and America should be ashamed of itself" he said. 
"When you operate in the jazz world, you're connecting musician to 
audience. That's where the relationship is. It's not musician to record 
company, seeking permission to play to an audience. So that's entirely 
welcome." 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:58:26 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: Ladder's tour

In a message dated 10/1/99 10:36:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time, 
pabloalv@inti.gov.ar writes:

<< Hello, my name is Pablo. I'm sorry by my writing. I live in Argentina 
 and I speak spanish. >>

Ola Pablo! You're doing just fine with the English.  Wish I could do so well 
with Spanish!  One question?  If you didn't like the new Yes album, why did 
you go see them?

Welcome to the list!
Dan66

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:01:41 -0700
From: "Scott Steele" 
Subject: gg: Darkness; explanation; Ladder; senior citizens; Everydays; Mets; HtM; sloth; Genesis; puppy; SBeard

>> "Darkness:  Earth in Search of a Sun".

>Whatever.

:)  Hey, if your drugs had been as good as mine, you'd remember what the fooking song was called.  The first time I heard that song, I think I saw God and he was playing a Minimoog.

>Very, extremely cool. I thought he was a roady (roadie?) just messing with the equipment until he turned around and started playing.

When I saw him, the JHG had already played about five songs without Jeff.  Then there was a big-ass spotlight on Hammer's klavier while he played the intro to Darkness:, and no one noticed what was going on until Jeff came on a few minutes into the tune.  The first few notes he played were unmistakeable.

>BTW, thanks for the feedback, and another thanks to Rich Hilton for a fine explanation.

Yeah man, I can barely hear myself think over the scree of the tightened beanie-propellers in here.  ;)

>The final verdict for me on the new Yes is that I liked only one song.  The rest disappointed me.  < . . . >  Let me put this in
perspective.  I didn't like any of the new material in the two "Keys to Ascension" releases.

different from me

>They were boring.  I don't care much for Steve Howe.

different from me although many things with his name on them truly suck - ok, maybe same as me

>I have my doubts about Billy Sherwood, because of his involvement with the last two CD disappointments.

same as me

>I didn't like Tormato, but I did like Going for the One.  I enjoyed Relayer,

same as me

>Hm.  Anyway, this should give you an idea of where my tastes are at, so you know how to place my opinion of the new one.

fair deal.  Your perpective turns out to be very valuable to me.

>- -My friend and I are both 30 years old.  I think that put us in the almost nonexistent group of "senior-citizen" attendees!

That's how we felt at They Might Be Giants last night - everyone else was 30 or younger.  I don't think anyone trusted me.

>('Though the jazzy hi-hat/staccato theme from "Everydays" used to be one of my favourite themes in those days, without me knowing that it was Yes.

I liked the Buffalo Springfield version of that song before I ever knew Yes did it.  So when I heard Yes's version it was quite fresh and quite excellent.

>Let's go Mets
Let's Go Mets
Let's Go Mets

>Oh ... sorry, Excuse me.

No excuse necessary, no experience required, no opportunity etc

>Save your money. Buy the Happy The Man reissues instead.

More good advice can scarcely be packed into one sentence.  But must we continue to live in the past?  Won't anyone please put out a new album that we love?  Besides Vertu?

>Lazy -- Deep Purple
Who Knows Where The Time Goes -- Sandy Denny
Sleepy Time Time -- Cream
No Time -- The Guess Who
Nobody To Depend On -- Santana
Behind The Wall Of Sleep -- Smithereens
I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself -- Dusty Springfield
Tired Of Waiting -- Kinks
Anything by Sleepy John Estes
Anything by Sleepy LaBeef and. . .

>Sloth -- Fairport Convention

Nick, you showoff.  That was just too easy for you.

>np:  Genesis: The Lamb, live, from the first box, because the "new" phoned-in "Carpet Crawlers is SOOOOOOOO lame.

dunno what to think about it.  I've heard it a couple of times.  I think there's something magic about that lineup, but I'd like to be the producer if they ever got together again.  I'd probably record Pete's and Phil's vocals on different days.

>Buy it or the cute puppy dog dies.

If I wake up at GORGG with a bleeding puppy dog's head in bed next to me, I'll know who did it and I'll come after him with Tindall's splint.

>Guess what happened? Some 30 km away from Hengelo,

Hi Jan - did you not take your bike then?

>Mike Portnoy of Dream Theatre was doing a drum clinic that same evening. I'm a drummer myself but I'm not too fond of Mike's playing as I like to listen to musicians rather than mathematicians, but anyway, Mike must have hit his clinic to a quick finish because he joined Spock's Beard for the last couple of songs and, who would have expected otherwise, his 126th drumsolo of that evening.

Cool.  This of course propelled Nick D. to the front of the stage where he could act like a real rock star?

>A rather unique occasion though! The De Konincks came in the original round "vases" (so called "bollekes") and there was plenty of it. No rain on the way home, which was a good thing for I was already drenched from within, so to speak.

Good thing you were speaking Dutch instead of English.  I would hate the idea of drinking from bollocks.

Drenched from within.  I love it.  I will try to drench myself from within tonight, after the Gone Orchestra boggles the minds of science and makes them soft tonight at North by Northwest.

>Hey I'll be seeing Annie tonight supporting Caravan. Amazing Blondel are also on the bill. I'll be there with Jesus Tapia so we'll let you know how she did.

Good thing Eduardo isn't going with you, he'd be way too happy to see all these bands on one night.  - S.

np:  Brand X 1978

scottst@ohsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:02:04 EDT
From: Claudio666@aol.com
Subject: Re: gg: About Gentle Giant

In a message dated 10/1/99 1:06:21 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
pabloalv@inti.gov.ar writes:

<< For me, the best albums are Octopus, In a glass house, The 
 power... and free hand. >>

You have very good taste mi amigo!  Muy bien!

Dan6666666
n.d. Full Sail Okteberfest
n.p. Pulsar "Pollen"

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End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1890
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