on-reflection-digest     Monday, October 4 1999     Volume 01 : Number 1896



gg: Being juvenile is my name and my game :)
gg: Re:FM
gg: More SuperStar
gg: showing is proof, proving is nothing but fear
gg: GG: Con Septix? (Muse, Ick!...lessons)
Re: gg: RE: White boy music
Re: gg: Carpet Crawlers
gg: Camp(s) What Neat Ska-Ka?
Re: gg: "but it still moves"  Galileo
gg: moRe: digital man, yh...(Mow steeples with church organ stops?)
gg: RIP MUSIC (or headphones sometimes keep me breathing)
gg: moRgue: Lou (Is the terrible a mind to waste?)
Re: gg: more digital audio mania
Re: gg: RE: White boy music
gg: "If it moves, smash it!" (or "If it doesn't move, smash it!")
gg: Pablo; Yes; banjo/Fleck; Earthworks; Bruford

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:38:39 EDT
From: "Reginald Dunlop" 
Subject: gg: Being juvenile is my name and my game :)

>Hello!
>
>Daniel Potvin  wrote about Voivod:
>
> >PS i hate voivod's music
>
>Either you're not smoking enough pot, or you're drinking too much wine. By
>reading your e-mail address, I think you're doing more of the 
>latter...bunch
>of drunkin' frauds!!! I might be a little nicer if you'd explain *why* you
>don't like Voivod's music. :)

I hope y'all know I'm just fooling around. This was just a poor attempt at 
juvenile delinquency. :) Actually, It was a great attempt at juvenile 
delinquency...since I succeeded with flying colours. ;)

Ciao,

REG

np: FM - "Direct To DIsc/Headroom"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 07:18:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jesús" Tapia 
Subject: gg: Re:FM

- --- Reginald Dunlop  wrote:
> 
> np: FM - "Direct To DIsc/Headroom"

   Is this a new FM release? Is this the same FM I'm
thinking of?
    


=====
Best Regards, 
Jesús Tapia
   



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:30:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Rik Beck 
Subject: gg: More SuperStar

Hi GGuys,

I'm off work today, 'cos I'm recovering from the 'flu. It's given me a
bit of time to continue with the translation of the Italian 'SuperStar'
collection, something I've been doing for the last 20 years (or it just
feels like it). 

I've included everything so far, but the new stuff is Part Four: Music
Lessons. The next bit will probably appear next century.

Bits in [] brackets are my notes, usually putting the literal
translation into more readable English.  The original features the
convoluted journalistic style beloved of Italian media, and makes for
difficult reading when translated in this way.  The {} brackets are
intended to make the thing a bit easier to read, and normal () brackets
are in the original. 

- ---
GENTLE GIANT

It is difficult to cite in the panorama of English music, which is
always effervescent and rich with striking scenes, a group serious
[reliable] and prepared but also conservative in their style and with a
stable image like 'Gentle Giant'.
Born from a previous formation in the '60s, the complex [ensemble] of
the gentle giant (for that is his/its name) acquired its own face
[literally, 'physiognomy'] at the start of 1970, that of a sextet,
reduced to a quintet when, after some years, the oldest of the three
Shulman brothers, who were the soul {of the group}, decided to leave the
stage; and from then, apart from a change in drummer, the Gentle Giant
didn't change [mutate] until the Eighties, at the start of which they
softly loosened [untied] or at least didn't speak anymore of their
chronicles.
Also the frequent tours, the study and use of recording, the concert
halls and a type of music that was no longer changing, all contributed
to fix an unclear image of the group: a name of enormous prestige from
the early Seventies and therefore, inexorably, above all a memory of the
ancient vestiges when the taste and fashion had overtaken [superceded]
it.
Shy and reserved, not fond of the newspaper headlines [covers] and
attention-seeking, the Shulmans and company had created an original
sound above all thanks to a combination of voices and instruments - a
colourful texture of refined tone - and were able to compete on a par
with all the most popular groups of the English classic-romantic-gothic
generation: Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Emerson, Lake and Palmer and
Jethro Tull.
There was an occasion during the second Italian tour of Jethro {Tull},
at the start of 1972, that our public had a means to have direct
experience of the sextet, employed at the time like a back-up group,
i.e. to open the evening.  And notwithstanding the thunderous applause
and the encore requests, they had to leave the stage after only half an
hour of performance: thus was a contract foreseen, and the jealousy of
the superb Ian Anderson and his Tull companions earned.
But Gentle Giant would return often to Italy, always in love with those
fans who had discovered Genesis many years before their American and
British counterparts; and which had caused the success of other
excellent groups that weren't native to Italy ['profeti in patria',
literally 'prophets of the homeland', I think], like Van der Graaf
Generator.
- ----------------

GENTLE GIANT Part Two

The writing below the photo on Page 1 reads:
It is difficult, for the critics, to label the first work of Gentle
Giant.  "Our purpose - the six friends explain in a note of the next
album cover - is to widen the frontier of popular contemporary music,
even if that means being unpopular".

The end of Page 1 and all Page 2:
Gentle Giant knew how to make music that was elegant and full of
feeling, characterised by a new use of woodwind and strings, without the
pretensions of big band, with the sole ambition of creating a rainbow
rich of colours, to which the rhythm section added a soft tone, aided by
the liquid sound of the vibraphone.  Thus was created an avant-garde pop
music in which there were flowing elements typical of rock, others of
jazz and others of classical music.  'Funny Ways', 'Giant', 'The Advent
of Panurge', 'Pantagruel's Nativity', 'Three Friends', 'Why Not?', 'The
Runaway' were only some of the titles within their repertoire.

The birth of the Giant
Phil, Derek and Raymond (Ray) Shulman were three brothers from
Portsmouth, a city of 250 thousand inhabitants in the South of England,
between Bournemouth and Brighton, on the English Channel, not far from
the Isle of Wight, famous for its rock festival.  The oldest, Phil, born
on the 27th August 1937: the second, Derek, the 2nd February 47; the
smallest, Ray, musically the most proficient, the 8th December 1949.
They began to play when very young, above all in local rhythms and blues
groups, inspired by the black American music.  There we find them in the
early sixties in 'Howling Wolf and the Roadrunners', or to be precise
the howling wolves, the name borrowed from the great bluesman Howlin'
Wolf (alias Chester Burnett).
In 1966 their manager wanted to transform them into professionals and
changed the name to Simon Dupree and the Big Sound (where Simon Dupree
is a pseudonym and not a real person).  Thus began a career with the
London record label Parlophone, the same as the Beatles, one of the EMI
stables, at that time the prime British record house.  The first 45rpm
singles had a fair success, growing with time: 'I See The Light', also
'Reservations', and then the luckiest of all, 'Kites', in the charts in
1967, even though their fame never spread overseas.  But already with
the next song 'For Whom The Bell Tolls', the descent started.  The
problem was that the public had the wrong image of Simon Dupree: they
wanted him to make melodic ballads and simple, ironic songs, almost in
the cabaret style, whilst the Shulmans continued to love the rhythm and
blues and jazz.
At that point the sextet divided: on one side Eric Hine, Tony Ransley
and Pete O'Flaherty, of whom we hear little to speak of; one the other
Ray, Derek and Phil Shulman, who decided to leave for a new musical
adventure a little more ambitious.  They became associated first of all
with the guitarist, Gary Green, born the 2oth November 1950, brother of
Colin, a soloist on the rock-jazz circuit; then the drummer Martin Smith
who worked with them for a couple of years; then the keyboard player
Kerry Minnear, born the 12th April 1948, just out of the Royal Academy
of Music with all the classical baggage with which Gentle Giant couldn't
do without.  The Shulmans played at that time [in their time?] a large
number of instruments: Ray the bass, the guitar, the violin and
occasionally drums and piano; Derek bass, alto sax and above all the
lead vocals; Phil the brass, of which in particular the trumpet and the
tenor sax.  It was a time of new romantic and gothic imagery in English
pop which nurtured the old fairy tales, of enchanted castles, of ancient
['ossianiche' - I'm not sure what this means] poetry, of antique popular
culture.  The group chose the name 'Gentle Giant' and presented at the
beginning of 1971 an LP, the cover of which reproduced the good-natured
face of the giant who held the sextet in the palm of his hand.

- ----

The photos on Pages two and three are accompanied by the following text:
Gentle Giant: from left, Kery Minnear, keyboard player and
poly-instrumentalist, John Weathers, drummer, Gary Green, guitarist, Ray
Shulman, poly-instrumentalist, and Derek Shulman - who below we see
playing the sax - lead vocals.  The third Shulman, Phil, saxophonist and
trumpeter, left the group in 1973.

- ------------------

GENTLE GIANT Part Three

The character type used for the title and for the cover notes is that of
ancient Gothic, that used by Magonza of Gutenberg when he invented the
printing process ['printing with mobile characters'], in the 15th
century [my history of C15 European literature is limited - I don't know
whether 'Magonza da Gutenberg' refers to a person or a company].  Tony
Visconti, the able producer of Italian origin who took care of the
direction of records in the studio (he worked also with David Bowie,
Rick Wakeman, T.  Rex, etc.) explained with ['dovizia' - not sure what
this is] of characteristic fantasy the origin of the name.  The giant of
which he told lived in the countryside of Somerset, from which he rarely
ventured, only doing so to go and find his girlfirend in France, who was
also a daughter of Gargantua (who remembers the tales of Francois
Rableais?).  One day, however, a sound which wandered with the East wind
atracted him; with curiosity, and travelling quickly at night, avoiding
the populated areas, he discovered that the sound came [originated] from
Portsmouth, in particular from village out from the city, where six
musicians were strumming an arrangement of 'Why Not?' at over a hundred
Watts.  He located them and placed himself around the house, with his
ears on the two sides of the walls to obtain a stereophonic effect.  The
friends saw him and apologised to him for the din [noise].  "Am I
disturbed?" responded the giant "but I have never heard music as lovely
as this apart from a flock of birds!".  Thus the giant became an admirer
of the group, and they, after having posed with him for a photograph,
decided to take the name of that good-natured [kind, gentle] figure,
imposing and confident with a refined palate: because Gentle Giant were
even at the start a team endowed with large personality and exquisite
musicianship.  

- -----------

Part III
It was not by chance that [Tony] Visconti worked with them immediately,
and to launch them {lanciarli: to throw, get up to full speed, embark
(them) upon} there was Vertigo, a recently-formed label which one could
identify by their game of black and white lines which revolved on the
turntable to produce an optical illusion of an abyss [chasm, etc.].
Vertigo belonged to the new wave of the young English discography
[recording artists?]: the same as that which recorded the explosion on
Island of King Crimson and Traffic, the ascent of Harvest with Pink
Floyd and Deep Purple, and the first successes of Charisma with Genesis,
Van der Graaf Generator and Audience.  Far from the political pledges
[commitments] of many colleagues of the period, but always {dando -
aware of?} a certain matter of some importance their heads, Gentle Giant
started a strong search [literally search without falling] for great
effect, for freedom, for the incommunicable or for refined technicality
themselves.
The first disc, which simply carried the name of the sextet, was
contributed to by the influences of [or, more simply, influenced by] the
English folk revival: the courtier style of the Amazing Blundel, the
legacy of American blues of Pentangle, and the giant rock [?] and
Eastern mood of Jethro Tull.  Rock, jazz and classical were the other
influences to which the group related, binding them together with duty
[diligence?] and denouncing [ignoring] hardly anything in order to
produce something innovative from the material which was not yet
completed.  Nevertheless, 'Funny Ways', 'Why Not?', 'Giant' became the
classics of  English romantic popular music.  'Giant' was a spacious
piece, dominated by the impact of acoustic and electronic elements in a
nervous atmosphere, almost afraid of the arrival of the fabled
Gargantua, transformed {di oniriche elucubrazioni; ??} with infantile
[childish] fear.  'Nothing At All' is characterised by punctuality
[probably means accuracy of timing] of the group's sound: the fugue, the
staccato rhythms, the improvised appearances of one or another
instrument, for example the keyboard of Minnear and the violin of Ray
Shulman, so precise and cold, and a typical example of the English
school that does not want to renounce [give up] an austerity without the
proper spirit [?].
The young people who discovered the record by accident on the racks of
import record shops, and the critics who had already judged the first
work found themselves in difficulty to label the music of Gentle Giant.
But the question was idle [lazy].
The same musicians wrote on the cover of their second album, 'Acquiring
the Taste': "It is our goal to expand the frontiers of contemporary
popular music at risk of becoming very unpopular".  There was no
paradox, because they soon became the good friends of the European
public and their attempts were appreciated: "We have recorded each
composition with  the one thought - that it should be unique,
adventurous and fascinating.  It has taken every shred of our combined
musical and technical knowledge  to achieve this.  From the outset we
have abandoned all preconceived  thoughts on blatant commercialism.
Instead we hope to give you something far more substantial and
fulfilling".

PART FOUR !!!

The caption on page 6 accompanying the two photos reads: The music of
Gentle Giant: An original 'mixture' of pop, rock, jazz and classical.
Says Derek Shulman - seen in the photo during a concert by the group -
with a hint of pride: "In England, our records were played on the third
channel [Radio 3], which is the BBC's classical music station".

Music Lessons

'Acquiring the Taste' is a record more mature and balanced than the
preceding one.  Amongst their unforgettable pieces, that which opens the
collection, dedicated to the birth of Pantagruel: "Pantagruel born --
the earth was dry and burning In Paradise dear Badabec prays for
him...".  Evidently the group continued to be inspired by Francois
Rabelais, the French doctor who under the name of Alcofribas Nasier had
published about the middle of the 1500s 'The horrible and frightening
stories and bravery of the much renowned Pantagruel king of the Dipsodi,
son of the grand giant Gargantua' [I don't know the 'official'
translation of this work - this is the literal translation of the title
given in the piece]; and also another four books dedicated to Pantagruel
and his family, people that were recovered [reinvented] from an old
popular publication.
A great intellectual of the French Renaissance, Rabelais made
allegorical stories against the politics and morals of the time; the
theologicians of the Sorbonne together accused him of heresy against the
king.  A taste for the fabulous tales, punctuated with descriptions of
incredible personalities and stories, together with the comic, was born
from the exaggeration to the gigantic scale of physiological function of
the hero and of hundreds of strange episodes, like the theft of the
bells of the Parisian cathedral of Notre-Dame: in short an inspired
description [or decriptive vein?] which united a vivacious realism with
acute criticism of society in his time.  In a certain sense Gentle Giant
responded with their music to the Rabelesian characters: fantasy and
realism together, a taste for description but also irony and
disenchantment.  'Acquiring the Taste' gave a way to value more the rich
timbre [tone] of the arrangements and the ability of the musicians.  The
formation was the same as that of the first LP.  Kerry Minnear,
keyboards, and the author of the pieces together with the Shulman
brothers; he played piano, organ, celeste, clavinet [?], clavichord,
xylophone, vibraphone, mellotron (the large white chest with
pre-recorded tapes made famous by Moody Blues and King Crimson) and, for
the first time, the synthesiser.  The title track of the album is all
his own, an minute and a half of moog.
Also the choir {this may mean voices or the mix of voices with
instruments} represented a distinctive element, effectively intertwined
without doubt around other schools of rock, the white West Coast or the
voices of the black groups of rock 'n' roll.  The instrumental mixtures
were the aspect most convincing; but each voice [] covered a specific
role: it's not that they limited themselves to substituting a guitar
soloist with a violin, or a singer with a flute.
The choral nature became the principal factor of the magic of the gentle
giant.
Between 'Acquiring the Taste' and 'Three Friends' (1972), Gentle Giant
played [exhibited themselves!] in Italy together with Jethro Tull and
obtained, as they say, a clamorous success.  Into the formation which
debuted in our country [i.e. Italy], on drums entered Malcolm Mortimer,
a shy and taciturn musician, who was unfortunately removed from the
scene by a motorbike accident, and therefore on the fourth album his
place was taken, definitively, by John Weather, Welsh drummer already
with the Eyes of Blue, the Magic of Graham Bond and the Grease Band, the
group accompanying Joe Cocker.  On this platform the giant provided a
music lesson that did not limit itself to pieces more or less
well-known, but gave clear intentions of the desire to create and enjoy
rhythms and melodies together with the listeners.
A few weeks later came 'Three Friends'; it is the story of three
friends, an album with a unifying theme, a concept as they say in
English.  They were accused from some parts of excessive formality, of
musical respectability, nevertheless it's a dignified and coherent work,
which closes the first period of the Giant, which in effect thereafter
changed label, passing to WWA, just created by their manager Pat Meehan.
The confrontation with Jethro Tull, already established on the stage,
was copied [continued, matched] in the record library: 'Three Friends'
was judged without doubt superior to the contemporaneous 'Thick As A
Brick' of Ian Anderson and friends.
The idea of the work, revealed the protagonists, came about simply from
a normal conversation between the components of the group, remembering
the old friends of school and asking what became of them {lit. what end
they may have made}.


++++

Right, that's everything up to the end of the first column of Page 8

bye


rb

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:14:06 -0400
From: Richard Hilton 
Subject: gg: showing is proof, proving is nothing but fear

Those of you who know me know that I can't resist an opportunity like this one.

At 6:00 AM -0700 10/4/99, "the Issac Newton or the midwest" wrote:
>The Johnson noise means that 24 bit resolution isn't
>capturing any more music, because enough white noise is present to muddy the
>recording sufficiently to offset the benefits of the addition resolution.

You don't happen to know datboy, do you?  He was able to come back 
from the dead.....so anything's possible, I guess.  (it's a JOKE.....)

Let me ask you something Dan:  how is it that bees can fly? 
Supposedly, it's aerodynamically impossible.  I have read that it is 
not currently explainable by any currently known conventional 
scientific data.  Is it the "psychic gravity-resistor's network" or 
what?

>Bottom line: anyone who says 24 bit makes a more accurate recording than 16
>bit at the same sampling rate is a salesman, or is just plain wrong.

Right.  And bees cannot fly.  Just like black holes didn't exist 
until 50 years ago.  Where would the world be without you guys to say 
"it can't be done" and WE guys to go ahead and do it?

Best,
Rich


Richard Hilton/Boppybop Toons Inc.
http://members.aol.com/hiltonius/BTI_page.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:45:38 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: GG: Con Septix? (Muse, Ick!...lessons)

Hail to the Power and to Glory's Way!

(C)Nearly every song GG wrote/performed/recorded was a commentary on 
(i)their present situation. Therefore, every album is a concept album 
(V)in the deepest sense. Avant-garde pop...a fairly accurate label, if 
(i)a label is needed. 'Classical baggage'...too bad classical is seen 
(L)in such a negative light by the general pop audience. Fear is a 
(i)great motivator. I think that's why GG related to Rabelais so well. 
(A)
(D)Thanx so much for your post, Mr. Beck! Perhaps 'choral' might be 
(O)better translated as 'polyphonic.' Your work is appreciated!! GG 
(U)was an orchestrated act in many ways. They were more eclectic than 
(G)they were progressive. Sort of a silly label, I think. And it's a 
(J)bit funny...since GG was good at using 'older' styles/methods of 
(O)writing/instrumentation, they were considered 'conservative.' What 
(H)a laff...pop music, in itself, is ridiculously conservative. When 
(N)was the last time you heard pop music that took any real musical 
(S)risks? I mean, real risks? It almost never happens. Esp. in the US. 
(O)
(N)"...dignified and coherent work..." that's a GGood way to describe 
(R)AtT and lots of other GG. Esp. in light of what pop music 'stands 
(A)for' in general. 
(C)
(O)GG gave me some music lessons I will never forget. Some warm and 
(N)some cold...all appreciated. 
(T)
(E)Please do not assume (after reading this) that I don't enjoy pop 
(U)music. I do. But I have to be doing something else. If I'm not 
(R)busy with dishes, email, or something similar (other semi-mindless 
(C)tasks), most pop music bores me to tears. There is a time for meat 
(i)and veggies and there is time for vanilla ice cream. I like them 
(V)both. What I find to be ridiculous is the general attitude of pop 
(i)AND classical musicians (jazz, blues, etc.) that THEY know what's 
(L)up and musicians in other styles don't. That's jealousy and fear 
(i)and a lack of understanding, IMSNSHO. I can't stand the aloof 
(A)classical composer any more than I can listen to a punk. Whining 
(N)is very popular in all styles right now. Why not provide alternate 
(D)ideas? The airwaves are full of crap most of the time. Thanfully, 
(O)there are some stations who don't cave to the pressure the industry 
(U)provides. But 'the people' continue to lap it up like little puppies, 
(G)so the drivel keeps running. 

(C)Case in point: I phoned both classical stations in this area on my 
(i)mentor's b'day, asking them to play one of his pieces in dedication 
(V)to his 82nd b'day. Both program managers gave me nothing but excuses 
(i)and said, "Our audience lixe the pop classical...this would be too 
(L)much for them." What a load. Why don't they let the audience decide? 
(i)And how will they be able to make that decision without hearing any 
(A)of his music? The man has give three decades of his life to this 
(N)community/area and they could give a flying...stench about it. 

(DJ)This I will not try to understand. 

(D)And now critix think that the public should make a decision on a new 
(O)work of music in one listening. We all know that music with any depth 
(U)requires more than one cursory listening. If I would have only given 
(G)Luto one listening...I would have been an idiot, I think. 

(DJ)Fight superficiality. It sux.

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:46:03 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: Re: gg: RE: White boy music

Toby Trott  wrote:
>Basically, though, it boils down to: White boys can't dance. 

Rubbish.

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:48:46 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: Re: gg: Carpet Crawlers

"drj_saro"  wrote:
>i could never understand why a band with one of the best (maybe?) 
>drummers in prog would rely so much on _programmed_ drums?!?!
>thank you for your time and attention.

(D)Slick and clean and no caffeine! 

(C)Becuz Phil thinx of himself as a composer/songwriter, not a drummer? 
(i)Maybe this comes from the "oh, he's just a drummer" attitude, which 
(V)is a bunch of crap anyway. I'm a decent percussionist, but will never 
(i)consider myself good enough at the kit as a _real_ drummer - cuz I 
(L)put the time into other instruments. I have alwaze considered myself 
(i)a composer and the learning of instruments has been a means to an end. 
(A)After all, if I don't have a pretty good idea of what is idiomatic on 
(N)a given instrument I'm writing for, my chance of getting the piece 
(DJ)performed (or even looked at/considered) by professionals is not good. 

(R)Similarly, if I don't know how to write for the voice, guitar, bass, 
(A)STiCK, etc. I will find the music more difficult to reproduce on those 
(C)instruments in my own stuff. Sure, I jam/improvise a lot and stuff is 
(O)pulled out of that for tunes, but that's out of context. Playing some 
(N)riff in context as opposed to lifting it from a jamming situation can 
(T)be a very different beast entirely. I remember going thru a faze of 
(E)'wow, I played that before and made this change, but doing it musically 
(U)ad infinitum is not the same at all' in my teens. Thankfully, the bands 
(R)I was in ranged the spectrum from all 'schooled' players to mostly 'non- 
(DJ)schooled' players to everything in between. 

(D)Perhaps that's a thread...what kinds of bands were you in when you were 
(O)younger...what are you doing now...how did that influence who you are 
(U)musically (listening and performing) today...do you wish you would have 
(G)done anything differently...what one thing would that be...am I asking 
(J)too many questions? Perhaps that's plaid instead. 

(D)Or a plush floor covering? 
(J)(what a segue-way back to the beginning again?) 

(DJ)"No use makin' the same mistaxe..."

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:50:21 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: Camp(s) What Neat Ska-Ka?

Why limit yourself to electronic OR acoustic drums?  

Why limit yourself to science OR industry? 

After all, the piano only LOOX black and white...it's not, really. 

That's why I like, oh, never mind... 

BE A PARADIGM PIONEER! Musically 'double-dip' once in a while!! 


DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:50:06 PDT
From: "Dan Weese" 
Subject: Re: gg: "but it still moves"  Galileo

>At 6:00 AM -0700 10/4/99, "the Issac Newton or the midwest" wrote:
>>The Johnson noise means that 24 bit resolution isn't
>>capturing any more music, because enough white noise is present to muddy 
>>the
>>recording sufficiently to offset the benefits of the addition resolution.
>
>You don't happen to know datboy, do you?  He was able to come back
>from the dead.....so anything's possible, I guess.  (it's a JOKE.....)
>
>Let me ask you something Dan:  how is it that bees can fly?
>Supposedly, it's aerodynamically impossible.  I have read that it is
>not currently explainable by any currently known conventional
>scientific data.  Is it the "psychic gravity-resistor's network" or
>what?

Actually, bees fly because they louver their wings on the downstroke, adding 
thrust.   Pretty simple.  Fear not, force still equals mass times 
acceleration. That old canard (aerodynamic pun) has been tossed around for 
years, and it's been wrong since day one.

>Right.  And bees cannot fly.  Just like black holes didn't exist
>until 50 years ago.

Black holes were predicted by John Mitchell and Pierre Simon Laplace over 
200 years ago, based on Newton's work on gravity.   They were called dark 
stars.  It wasn't until Schwartzchild applied Einstein's new field equation 
in 1916 that the concept really picked up steam.

Tell you what, Rich, I won't lecture you on physics.  A great mathematician, 
Bertrand Russell, said that music was counting without numbers.  Enough 
said.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:53:04 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: moRe: digital man, yh...(Mow steeples with church organ stops?)

Richard Hilton  wrote:
>"Use your ears" is my credo on these things.

(D)The whole point of science is to watch, observe, and document... 
(J)...to prove and to 'un-prove'...

(D)In the end, all of it won't amount to much. Just a bit of sandbox play. 
(J)So...let's have some FUN!! 

(D)Though we may or may not hear above or below certain assumed freqs., 
(O)those freqs. still, I believe, play an integral part in the timbre of 
(U)the sound/colorations. That's why I will alwaze prefer live music. Esp. 
(G)acoustic music, though I'm a sucker for electronix as well.

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:54:14 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: RIP MUSIC (or headphones sometimes keep me breathing)

(D)I have never 'given a rip' about what others thought of my musical tastes. 
(O)Why? What is anyone going to do about it? Ever since I have had an opinion 
(U)about music and pursued my own musical tastes (age 8), I have been told to 
(G)'turn it down' or 'turn it off.' Headphones have alwaze been my friends...

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:00:51 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: moRgue: Lou (Is the terrible a mind to waste?)

"Ant"  wrote:
>It probably depends on the length of the piece doesn't it? 

(D)I would agree that length is a factor to some extent, but the musical 
(O)maturity and sensibilities of the ones that are jamming/writing have 
(U)much more effect on whether or not the tune 'comes together' properly. 
(G)Some people just feed off of each other, artistically. I think this is 
(J)rare (in any depth), but... 

>I mean Geir mentions the Beatles development in Bulldog but they usually 
>finished writing a song in one or two sessions. 

(D)...no matter what I think of the Beatles now, I have a certain 
(J)appreciation for the way they seemed to click. 

>If you have to come back to something days or weeks later, the feel may 
>have gone. You may well have forgot the idea or lost the emotion that 
>drove you to start it. You might want to preserve what it was because it 
>came in a flood of feeling and you don't want to weave in an intellectually 
>driven pattern of the 'theoretical right thing to do'. 

(C)The 'theoretical right thing to do' is only a point of departure for me. 
(i)For every piece I write, there is a set of 'right notes.' My job is to 
(V)discover those notes...to find the paths that lead to them. That _is_ 
(i)related to the 'theoretical right thing to do'...but only as an end result 
(L)is related to a catalyst. The world begins there. Personality is
paramount, 
(i)but only upon some decent foundation. This can certainly include collage, 
(A)but I'd take it a step further and place that in a developmental setting. 
(N)I don't mean to be condescending, this is only my preference. 

>So tacking a new bit on the end which also came with a flood the muse but 
>is quite different may be a good idea and sound great. 

(D)I think there's alwaze the next level. I certainly don't mean to take 
(E)any merit from inspiration, but I believe in perspiration, too. (...this 
(J)is not to imply that others don't...) 

>I like music which does this and all the pieces are strong in themselves. 
>On the other hand I have listened to some albums where a theme has been
>developed throughout and it wish they hadn't bothered. 

(D)Yeah, if the cornerstone/theme/building block(s) are not gems in 
(E)themselves, there is nothing you can do with them that will make 
(J)them shine. 

Then Claudio666@aol.com wrote:
>I don't know about you, but I've learned more about CDs and recording 
>technology  in the last 2 days than, well...forever. 

(D)I remember most of it from college, but I enjoy reading about this stuff 
(E)again. Good to get other perspectives. Esp. from those currently in the 
(J)industry...

>If it sounds good, enjoy it. 

(R)Yep, and there are different times when different music worx...
(A)differently! I would venture to guess that most of the people on 
(C)this list, musician or not, do most of their listening while doing 
(O)something else (perhaps reading and writing email, etc.). I only do 
(N)that with music that is, IMSNSHO, equally mindless to a great extent. 
(T)The same for my car listening. I have found that, if I actually play 
(E)music that is dynamic and engrossing in the car, I can't keep it on 
(U)the road. Two near accidents stopped that. I used to compose in 
(R)my head while I was driving as well, but have since stopped since I 
(DJ)ran a stop sign at 55mph several years ago. Damn fine piece, though!! 

>Besides a select few of you out there (and no offense!), who among us 
>listens to music with an eye toward analysis as opposed to enjoyment? 
>I listen to the playing, the themes, the interplay of musicians, the 
>production, the voicings...it either works for me or not. I don't
>particularly care if it's collage-constructed or movement-based, or 
>whether there's a thematic singularity. Is it good? Is it just OK? Or 
>does it suck?

(DJ)I listen for all of the above...etc... 

(C)Please don't take this as a question of judgement, it's more an idea 
(i)of tastes. Do you listen to music much with headphones on and your 
(V)eyes closed? Does the music you listen to demand this? Sometimes I need 
(i)to do that...at least daily to be satisfied. That's just me. I wish I 
(L)knew lots of others who felt that way, but, even a lot of the musicians 
(i)I know complain that they don't have enough time to really listen to 
(A)music. That's sad. Certain things can only be understood thru repeated 
(N)listenings (in the music of Luto or Z, f'rinstance). That's not for 
(DJ)everyone, but it _is_ for me. 

(R)And I really don't get the way some people trash analysis. I rip apart 
(A)music becuz I love it, not becuz I'm anal. Heck, I do it for fun. I'm 
(C)not saying that you are being overly-critical, Dan. There are a lot of 
(O)musicians/composers that like analysis just for the sake of it and that 
(N)has ruined a lot of new music and possible connections between new music 
(T)and the audience. I find myself more angry with snobby attitudes about 
(E)theory than I do with ignorance. Stupidity is another thing. I try to 
(U)keep an open mind. I listen to a little of everything. I have to...it's 
(R)part of my job.

(DJ)Apps. for any ideas I may have repeated, but I had some stuff to say.

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:01:28 PDT
From: "Dan Weese" 
Subject: Re: gg: more digital audio mania

>I personally like the Welsh rare-bit.
>Not much of a sound but the Taste Equation
>is pretty constant. Sampling? No, I just eat
>the lot.
>
>Bob

African or European?  Laden or unladen?  ROFL


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:09:02 +0000
From: Diana Green 
Subject: Re: gg: RE: White boy music

hail;
re:


ProggRockk@aol.com wrote:

> But we're not stuck in 4/4. If you go to places in Eastern Europe like
> Bulgaria, you can see folks dancing in meters like 11/8, 13/8, etc. Last
> week, I heard an amazing CD of Bulgarian Wedding Music.

    White folks music, huh?
    Now playing, by coincidence- I didn't do much e-mail this weekend so
didn't see the thread till now- Sam cooke Live at the Harlem Square Club,
1963!
    And if you boys want some INTELLIGENT, well composed R & B, try Maze!
still twisting  the night away,
dg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:10:50 -0500
From: DE Johnson 
Subject: gg: "If it moves, smash it!" (or "If it doesn't move, smash it!")

"Dan Weese"  wrote:
>...A great mathematician, Bertrand Russell, said that music was 
>counting without numbers... 

(D)Must not have experienced the music of Ferneyhough, Carter, etc. 
(E)(I have no idea when Russell was alive, so I'm not assuming he 
(J)had the chance to hear any of this music.)

(DJ)I'm going back to work now...

DJ/CiViLiAN/Raconteur/le Uncroyable M. Personne	

Please visit my website and check out some of the 
soundfiles, etc. at: http://www.raconteurprod.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:10:37 -0700
From: "Scott Steele" 
Subject: gg: Pablo; Yes; banjo/Fleck; Earthworks; Bruford

>Hello, my name is Pablo. I'm sorry by my writing. I live in Argentina and I speak spanish.

You're doing great in english too.

>I'm a new subscriber of "on reflection digest" I wish tell you about Ladder's tour. Yes began their tour in southamerica. I saw them in Buenos Aires on September 12 and I didn't like their new album. They played many new song and I didn't like the most old songs that they played. I liked very much "awaken". I'm tired of listening "I've seen all good people",  "perpetual change" and "Your is not disgrace"

I am afraid their live performances are never going to be what we wish them to be.

>Hey Scott, Bring that banjo to NYC!

No no no no no, I'm not the banjo player I was talking about.  There is a banjo solo on the McLaughlin record that I want John Eric to hear.

>I'm already a Fleckaholic but would love to have my hair starched backward...

Does anyone have Tales from the Acoustic Planet Vol 2?

>I also have a t-shirt with the cover of the first album. It was made by myself! The people laugh in the street because "the gnome" seems a politician!

I knew he looked familiar!

>Earthworks played two shows at the Regattabar in Cambridge MA on Sept 29th.  Reflectioners in attendance were Jeff McClelland, Steve Williams and myself.

You lucky people.  They never come up here to Sectors R or N.

>Victor Wooten at the House of Blues
>Leo Kottke at the Iron Horse
>Chick Corea at Regattabar

If it is Chick with Origin, don't miss it.

>Tell me how to be in three places at once? :-)

I recommend, for breakfast, a heaping bowl of Clonios.

>And don't look for his return to Crimson any time soon, such as an expected reunion next year. "Tony and I have opted out of this one," he said.  Fripp, the Crimson leader, he added, "doesn't work that often, and I'm definitely making a bit of headway with this jazz thing."

I prefer the sound of that - Bill and Tony opting out of Crimson this time - rather than Fripp deciding not to take Bill and Tony this time around.

>Not that one is likely to hear Earthworks on the radio here. "Smooth jazz is viewed from here in Europe as a particular American horror that somehow has escaped, and America should be ashamed of itself" he said.

I agree Bill!  - S.

np:  The Gone Orchestra, 7/27/99 rough mixes

scottst@ohsu.edu

------------------------------

End of on-reflection-digest V1 #1896
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