From: Suzy (squeegy1@aol.com)
Subject: Re: lying to the therapist
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Date: 2003-02-13 19:09:46 PST

"Doug" wrote in message news:...
> "Suzy" wrote in message
> news:e25316b9.0302130649.2e933c0@posting.google.com...
>
> > I saw someone at the university. I had to fill out a little survey before
> >going in. Mark 1 through 4, four meaning its an issue with you, for the
> >question of "Do you have throughts of hurting yourself?" and a similar
> >question with suicide. I marked 4 for both. When I got in the office, she
> >asked me why I marked 4 for both of those. I locked up. I know that she
> >would have to tell someone if I said I was suicidal. So I simply stated
> >"Well, everyone has those feelings, don't they?" I don't think she bought
> >it, but she dropped the subject.
> > This may sound dumb, but what exactly does feeling suicidal mean to you?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I definately want to kill myself. I just
didn't want to tell the counselor woman. It would be her legal duty
to report me, which is not what I wanted. As for "what does feeling
suicidal mean to you": Basically. I don't want to live anymore. I
can't really think of any reasons anymore. Simply, I just do not wish
to live and would rather not.

> > I was feeling aweful at work one day (I work in an office and sometimes I
> >am all alone in the building), so I decided to call one of those suicide
> >hotlines. 1-800-suicide. I asked them what their privacy policy was. They
> >said everythign was purely confidential unless in reports of abuse and/or
> >plans to hurt someone else. I didn't quite believe that I could tell them
> >that I wanted to kill myself and they wouldn't trace my number and have the
> >cops come to my place of business.
> > Why did you believe they were being untruthful to you? Do you believe they
> have a vested interest in having you locked up for 72 hours only to know
> that doing that would likely close down all avenues of trust you might have
> left to really discuss why you were suicidal? Do you today think that no
> having anyone trust you that you would be less suicidal? Isn't trust high
> on the list of necessary traits to want to continue life?

I believe that it is their legal duty to report anyone who threatens
suicidal tendencies. We've gone over this.

> > Before I hung up the phone, I had been transferred to a couple people, it
> >seems the normal hotline worker couldn't take care of me and my questions
> >and I had to be put to speak with someone higher up on the todem pole.
> > Seems to me that you DID trust some of those volunteers by telling them more
> than they could reply to thus causing them to seek more qualified
> supervisory help and let you talk directly with those more understanding
> people. So what went wrong?

I didn't tell them all that much. I asked about their policy and then
they went straight to asking if I knew someone who was suicidal. I
replied with a yes. Things got more serious and they asked me if I
knew where they were right now. Once again, I replied with a yes.
Thats when it got to be too much for me and I thanked them for their
time and hung up. See, It doesn't take much for me to get emotional
when speaking vocally.

> > I want to talk to someone about my problems, and I hate discussing it with
> >my friends, because it puts them in an awkward position (by friends, I mean
> >my boyfriend and one other friend) and I don't want to do that to them.
> > This is difficult in two ways. I agree if they are not prepared to discuss
> your feelings that lower you will to live to a level of suicide, that they
> should not be 'threatened' with having to deal with something that is so
> terrible for them to face. On the other hand, being true friends, they may
> feel you did not trust them enough in your time of greatest need. It is a
> trust issue weighed against one of the inability or unwillingness to cope
> with your suicide ideation. So, how do you decide if they are able to cope
> with your suicide ideation?

When I first told my boyfriend, he said that he feels that it is
partly his fault because he is practically all I hang out with. We
spend all of our time together (surprisingly, we're not in love). He
also thought that all that he has done for me was fruitless for it did
not make me happy. I assured him that it was most definately not his
fault. It isn't. He has nothing to do with the way that I feel, and
while i do appreciate his efforts, there is absolutely nothing I can
do to change the way I feel. I have tried. And trust me, I know that
feeling happy is a million times better than feeling sad.

> > I could post on here more, which I think I will try to. But I still have
> >that fear of being judged by everyone (even though I know most of you are
> >good kids.) But it would just be nice to have some feedback sometimes.
> > Except for rare times, no one you trust here is likely to judge you. They
> also may not be willing to confront your real issues unless you just blurt
> them out. In many cases, posters simply make conclusions that result is
> saying they are suicidal and that is all they say. But a conclusion is a
> product of facts judged by what they mean. To really understand anyone
> here, factual discussions are needed, not conclusionary statements so much.
> Do you see the differences?

Oh most definately, which is why I noted that I will try to post on
here more, so my feedback is more relevant. I know what is going on
in Grace's life because she posts. I know part of Kathleen's life
because she posts. The same with Twilight. The more one reads about
another's situation, the more one comes to understand.

> > I don't think anyone I know in real life (as opposed to this? a fake
> >life? no. but i didn't know how else to put it. you get the picture)
> >shares my views of suicide being okay.
> > Sharing your views on suicide sort of requires that people in real life KNOW
> what factually similar situations might be part of their lives I think. You
> may find very few people in real life are against suicide if coping with
> life is simply impossible. So what makes coping with life impossible for
> you?

You see, this is the problem. What makes coping with life impossible
for me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I just don't wish to cope with
it any longer. I don't care about growing older. I don't enjoy
things right now, but I am fine with that. And while I know that
enjoying things and having a good time is wonderful, I just cannot
achieve that point anymore. I am like a junkie who has built up a
tolerance to good times. Does this make me an unappreciative asshole?
Perhaps. And if so, you all think I should die anyway, right? But
seriously. What have I got going against me here? I have a wonderful
family who will support me in all that I do. I make enough money to
get by. I have a few close, excellent friends. I'm not hideous nor
morbidly obese. I'm no toothpick supermodel, though. I am just your
average Joan who has everything to lose and is willing to lose it for
absolutely no reason. I am tired. I want to sleep.

> > When I tried to express my opinions with my boyfriend, he told me that
> >there was definately something wrong with me and that I needed to see a
> >doctor. Of course, he told me this online. He could never even discuss
> >this matter with me in person. How's that for support?
> > What was said to your b/f? If you just told him you are suicidal, I would
> imagine he was offended that his friendship was so useless to you that you
> would kill yourself rather than put up with him anymore. So, what you say,
> and how you say it, is very critical to understanding isn't it?

I would sit on his bed and cry for no reason. When he asked me what
was wrong, I would tell him that I didn't know. And that was the
truth. Months of this happened, though most of the time I tried to
hide it from him. He could tell something was up. So one night, we
were out to dinner at the Melting Pot (Fabulous resteraunt, for any of
you who like Fondue). I told him that I wanted to tell him something,
but not here. Not in public. And not while I was driving, either.
He wanted to know, he kept asking. So I handed him my printed out
receipt for some KCN (of course, that order didn't go through, but
after a couple of attempts, the substance now sits in one of my moving
boxes). He was shocked. I guess it was kind of a blunt way to sum it
all up, basically telling him that I wanted to poisen myself.
Needless to say, the rest of the meal was ruined. When we went home,
we talked about it for maybe 2 minutes, and then the subject was
dropped. We haven't talked about it in person since. Only a couple
brief conversations on Instant Messenger.

> > Though it's not entirely his fault. I have a hard time physically talking
> >about it. When online, I am calm and collected, but give me a couple
> >seconds of talking about it in person and it's the same as with the suicide
> >hotline. I get shakey and start crying. And then I just feel silly. I
> >feel the same, but I just feel as if I have less validity that way.
> > Basically, I just need a friend who will understand me. I want someone
> >who I can go to a cafe with and say "woah! did you see what Doug said
> >today? How about that guy?"
> > Hmmmm?
>
> > or "Kathleen is awesome"
> > Double Hmmmm?
>
> > and they would know what the hell I am talking about.
> > So talk and see if a friendship develops.
> > Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
> > Doug

When the WIRED article came out, I wanted soooo badly to discuss it
with one of my friends, but obviously, I couldn't just start talking
about a newsgroup with the word "suicide" in the title. I want a
friend in real life who will accept what I have cosen to do. I need a
friend who is a fellow ASHer, but one who I can rent "The Virgin
Suicides" with without things getting awkward, or read "A Perfect Day
for Bananafish" to.

I'm not saying that online friends are worthless and/or obsolete, it's
just nice to have some face to face contact once in a while. And it
would be doubly nice to have this contact with someone who shared my
views.

I've already said too much.

!
Suzy