The  Basur  IS  Asur

Fish and Meat Together

by Shoshie Wolf and Chana Wildman

         Did you ever wonder, when setting the Shabbos table, why an extra fork is added for the gefilte fish?  Or why, after you have eaten fish at a kiddush in shul, must you take a new plate and fork before you eat the cholent?  You may think that fish is an isur similar to basar vichalav.  The following will explain that eating/mixing meat and fish together is actually an issue of sukanah.

               Our great Rabbanim were not only concerned with our spiritual being but also with our physical being.  The Shulchan Aruch states: “Vichamirah sukantah mei isurah”, when it comes to something that is an issue of sukanah, we are more machmir then when dealing with a regular isur.  It is apparent that the Gidolei Yisroel also help us accomplish the mitzvah of “Vinishmartem Mi’oad  Linafshoteichem” when establishing isurim on things that would otherwise be harmful or dangerous to us.

               Although the combination of meat and fish is the prime example of something that is asur because of sukanah, there are also other less common situations, which are forbidden due to this very reason.

               Our Rabbanim placed a big emphasis on sweat, for they say that human sweat is like poison, except sweat from your face.  Because of this, a person should not put food between his skin and clothes.  One should also not put coins in their mouth because of sweat and because of the danger of infection.  In addition, one should be careful not to drink liquids that have been left open for an extended period of time. 

               We are also cautioned not to put ourselves in situations that can be dangerous to our lives.  One should not walk by a leaning wall or under a shaky bridge.  A person should always try not to go out alone at night or sleep alone in a room at night.  In addition, if one is trying to cross a river with a powerful current and the water reaches their waist, it is forbidden to cross the river for fear that they might be swept away by it. 

               As we all know we are also allowed to transgress all of the mitzvot besides the three mitzvot of yaharog v’al yaavor, in order to save our lives.  For these three mitzvot: avodah zarah, shfichut damim, and gilui arayot, one must be willing to give up their life rather then doing them. 

               One may ask, “Does the isur of fish also apply to fish and milk?”  In the Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah siman pey zayin, sief  kuf hey, the Taz answers the question.  He says that there is no sukanah by fish and milk.  He explains that when the Shulchan Aruch is quoted as  saying that fish and milk are asur together, it is really a “taut sofer”, typing mistake, in the text and the Shulchan Aruch never really said that.  Another opinion is found in Gimarah Pisachim, daf ayin vav: amud bet.  It say’s “Asrah Rava MiParzikiya limichliah bichutcha”.  Chutcha, in Hebrew kutach, is referring to a dairy dip.  We learn from this that the Rav from Parzikiya forbids eating fish with milk.  The shialot vitshuvot in Sefer hachinuch comes with a third opinion.  Sefer Hachinuch says that fish fried with butter is permissible but fish and pure milk is asur due to sukanah.  For practical application purposes one should know that we follow the view that the isur does not extend to fish and milk.

               With the understanding of why we have this isur of fish and meat and establishing that the isur does not apply to fish and milk, we may now go on to learn the halachot pertaining to fish and meat together.

               The Shulchan Aruch in Yoreh Deah siman kuf tet zayin, says “Tzarich lihizaher sheloh leechol basar vichalav biyachad mipnei shekasheh litzaraat”.  One must be careful with having fish and meat together because of some disease that can come from the two together.  Shulchan Aruch quotes Darchei Moshe and explains that this deals with “reicha milta”, the smell when one item impacts another item.  Fish and meat, when cooked together, produce an odor that is dangerous.  The Ramah adds “Vichain ain litzalot basar im dag mishum reicha”, explaining that roasting meat with fish is therefore asur because of this reason.  Nevertheless, the Shulchan Aruch clarifies that if fish and meat are cooked together bidieved, it is mutar, although if there is a leakage and one goes into the other, it is asur.

               Maharshal’s view is different.  He comments that one may cook fish and meat together lichatchila, there is no concern with “reicha milta”.  The only time they are asur is if they are attached or touching each other.

               In Gemara Pisachim daf ayin vav amud bet, Rav Parzikiya agrees that fish roasted with meat is asur and Rav Ashi remarks that even fish alone with salt is asur because of sukanah from the scent.

               In the book, The laws of Kashrus, Rabbi Binyomin Forst states that not only is it prohibited to eat or cook fish with meat but one may not grill fish on a meat barbecue either. However, one may cook fish in a clean meat pot, according to Rabbi Forst. 

               Pitchai Tshuva comments that there is no distinction between fish and meat or fish and chicken.  Hence, all the halachot that apply to fish and meat also apply to fish and chicken.

               Can I eat fish directly after I have eaten meat or can I eat meat right after fish? Good question!  The first approach is the Shulchan Aruch who says that one must wash out their mouth between fish and meat.  We do not have to wash our mouths from milk before eating meat but as we explained beforehand, this is an issue of sukanah “Vichamirah sukantah mei isurah”.  In The Laws Of kashrus book, we learn that one should eat some food and drink a liquid between eating fish and meat.  The Michaber’s approach is basically identical.  He says one should wash their hands and eat bread to clean their mouth and teeth.  The Ramah replies that one does not need to be worried with this because the sukanah is only when eating them together.  Our minhag is that we do not have to rinse out our mouth or clean our hands.  Nevertheless, it can never hurt to do so.

               It is now clear why we must use two different forks at our Shabbos table when we have fish and when eating fish and cholent.  Let’s say that I did not read this report until I already started using my fish fork to eat my meat?  What do I do?  Oy vey, no way!  How could you?  Do not worry though because the solution is simple.  Since this is not an isur, but rather it is a problem dealing with sukanah, all you have to do is wash and wipe off your fork and plate and you may continue eating.  This is because once you have cleaned the utensils from the fish you are not mixing the fish and meat, and therefore there is no question of sukanah anymore. But do not forget to thank Hashem that nowadays you do not have to worry about contracting a disease!

               Now we know the halacha, but what if by accident, a piece of my fish falls in to the cholent containing meat?  Do I have to throw out the whole cholent that I have been smelling since I woke up shabbos morning?  Does batal bishishim apply here?  You can still enjoy your delicious cholent at your meal, just make sure you remove the fish and that nothing remains of it. Thank goodness we have Rabbi Pittinsky’s kashrut class to be able to answer all these difficult questions.  However, every situation may be different so call your LOR (Local Orthodox Rabbi).

               There are three categories in which to place isurim relating to food.  The first one is the prohibitions put on us by the Torah.  For example, one is not allowed to cook milk and meat together.  We learn this from the posuk in the Torah which says “Lo tivashel gidee bichelev eemo”.  The second category is the isurim placed upon us by the Rabbanim in order to protect us from transgressing Torah prohibitions.  For instance, the Rabbanim added on that one may not even mix chicken and milk that they are planing to eat.  Last but not least we have the group of isurim established by the Rabbanim, and not connected to the Torah laws of Kashrut.  Fish and meat are under this group.  When mixed together it is an isur independent of the Torah’s food prohibitions.