gnatso24: so who's your favorite dem. candidate, keith?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: kerry
gnatso24: other than dennis kucinich
gnatso24: ah good choice
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: neg
gnatso24: haha
gnatso24: how nutty is dennis
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: yeah. dean must feel like an idiot. i laugh at them
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: talk about throwing away your candidacy. he had so much momentum
gnatso24: yeah, but i think a lot of it was natural
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i mean one week he is on the cover of time and newsweek , the next week he's losing bad in every state
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: mainly that one speech where he freaked
gnatso24: yeah, people were angry and so was he - then they realized that wouldnt fly
gnatso24: hahaha yeah that was great
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: kerry, however, i appreciate his military history. and he's tall, thats important
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: dean was a peanut, 5'6 or so
gnatso24: yeah kerry is a really great guy
gnatso24: i got to talk to him a couple times this year actually
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: really? a couple times? you make it sound so ordinary
gnatso24: ive sorta been doing some stuff with his campaign
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: well i shook the hand of rick santorum. w00t
gnatso24: hahaha rick!
gnatso24: have you heard about the alternate meaning of his name?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: that was about 2 years ago tho :P
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: nope
gnatso24: its rather obscene but this is a result of his stance on the gay/lesbian intercourse issue:
gnatso24: http://www.spreadingsantorum.com
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: ahh
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: its blocked by the firewall
gnatso24: oh really
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: must swear a lot or something...?
gnatso24: umm might just be the content
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: apparently. altho this university, tho it is very conservative (by your standards, anyway), it doesnt usually block sites based on the idea being promoted
gnatso24: so you guys have things censored?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: pornography, basically
gnatso24: ah it might have picked up on some of the words as being sexual
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: tho its not hard to find ways around, not that i tried
gnatso24: haha
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: yeah, i bet that was it
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: like they dont block warez sites, which is usually porn-ridden
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: but a filter cant understand images, obviously
gnatso24: right right
gnatso24: thats interesting
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: the onion is blocked
gnatso24: seriously?
gnatso24: why's that?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: all URL's are recorded, and so if the comp dudes dont like a site then its blocked
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: well the onion is pretty crude, IMO
gnatso24: yeah but if you wanted to read it dont you think you should be allowed to?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i like the satire, its clever, but much of hte other content is simpyl crude and for shock value
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: well i have asked myself to be banned from forums simply becase the temtpation to go there was too much, so i look at it in the same context with the onion
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: one could say that rules detract from a christian's personal convictions, but the point is not to be legalistic but rather remove temptation
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: did that make any sense?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: did you know i am at a batpist university?
gnatso24: i didnt know it was baptist but i knew it was affiliated with some religion
gnatso24: just out of curiosity though, dont you think that your personal liberties are being infringed upon through the censorship of information?
gnatso24: im honestly asking i guess im just surprised they do that
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: no, because i dont consider The Onion or pornographay to be information
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: the filter doesnt block ideas, it blocks entertainment/amusement that is unbiblical
gnatso24: what about other satirical pages?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: they probably arent blocked
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: landover baptist isnt blocked
gnatso24: landover baptist?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: basically dedicated to making fun of born-again christians, or at least the "ultra conservative" ones
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: its pretty funny, check it out if you like
gnatso24: oh, havent heard of it
gnatso24: i guess i just have a hard time drawing a line somewhere
gnatso24: thats all
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: so would say that CU is infringing on my liberties?
gnatso24: i guess i just find the differences between the interpretation of the protection of the first and second amendments sort of ironic
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: well my views on the 2nd amendment are different from my views on the 1st, if thats what you are referring to
gnatso24: yeah that is
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: well pornography, imo, is obscence, and has nothing to do with the first amendment
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: guns, on the other hand, are the citizens last resort against government. and all governments eventually go corrupt, imo.
gnatso24: so you believe that our government will eventually turn against us?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: concerning street violence and assault weapons, guns arent the problem, sin is. people hating one another. i believe jesus can fix that. (sorry if i sound cheesy)
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: (i've changed a lot since you left wellsboro)
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i believe america will fall. i simply do not know when or exactly how.
gnatso24: fall as in fall from prominence or fall as in erupt into anarchy
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: do you believe that the government should implant chips in our bodies so we can be tracked?
gnatso24: haha no
gnatso24: im vehemently opposed to the patriot act and all that sort of legislation
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: you laugh, yet I believe that is the goal of a liberal government (not Kerry, but just socialist-liberalism). and chips able to be planted in our bodies are already being tested.
gnatso24: but the liberals are fighting AGAINST that kind of thing currently
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: right. but they arent fighting against conservatives, they are fighting against republicans
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: there is a difference. i am a conservative, not a republican
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i loathe both parties and the party system.
gnatso24: but the conservatives within the republican party are proposing more and more legislation chipping away at those personal liberties that we both obviously want to be respected, no?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: they both seek power, that's the bottom line. that is the motivation
gnatso24: thus, even if you are against the republican party it seems you are in agreement with liberals regarding the protection of liberties
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: when i say i am conservative i am referring to evangelical christianity. of course, things get muddled because in the past 10 years the evangelical church has been taken a new form that may seem non-conservative to conservative christians and republicans
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i dont agree with liberals on social issues or economic issues.
gnatso24: fair enough, what about constitutional
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i am sure that liberals are very much for personal rights and 1st amendment protection, but i do not consider abandoning our christian heritage, which is why our nation is so great to begin with, a protection of freedom
gnatso24: i guess we all have differing opinions on the reasons for our county's greatness
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: let me make a distinction---i disagree with liberals on social issues because in many cases they are anti-christian. i disagree with liberals on economic issues solely for rational reasons
gnatso24: fair enough
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: then allow me to ask why you believe our country is great
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: if you have time... if i am taking up your time, please say so. i dont want to muddle you in a discussion you do not enjoy
gnatso24: no no i think this is really interesting actually
gnatso24: i think our country is great because its just so broad, to put it verrry simply - we've got so many groups coming together (ie. your philosophies and mine) and that causes problems but at the same time creates some really awesome results
gnatso24: just out of curiosity, and you're obviously not a fan of parties, but what party do you align most with?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: yes, i believe our diversity is to be commended, but let me do this: name a christian nation, then name a islamic nation, then name a buddhist nation, then name an animist nation.
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: name a nation that hates israel, name a nation that supports israel
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: (you dont actually have to, just consider)
gnatso24: okay...
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: you will observe that the only nations that have been prosperous are those that were at one point christian and supported israel. or do you think that is ridiculous?
gnatso24: yeah i think thats not very valid
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i dont completely agree with it either, but why woudl you say its not valid?
gnatso24: i think if you look solely at western europe and the US then its probably more or less true
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: did you know that massachusetts and connecticut were founded for the furtherment of Christ's gospel? new england was founded on puritanism. and i believe we have been blessed as a result of that
gnatso24: yes yes im very much aware of that
gnatso24: obviously where we differ is on how much the religion of the people had to do with it
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: notice that the nations that hate israel are largely dictatorships and lacking in the humanitarian department.
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: and to answer your question, i am a registered republican, primarily because mike bilder and i have the same bday, both registered at teh same time, and i guess he convinced me or i felt like jumping on the bandwagon
gnatso24: eh, even thats tough though - a lot of the western european nations that are even more christian than the united states proportionally have a greater split on support of the palestinians
gnatso24: okay but if you dont see yourself in agreement with the republicans, who would you more align with?
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: actually, not to sound conceited, but i can easily argue that the united states, probably the greatest nation in world history, is the only christian nation to ever exist, too
gnatso24: t'would be tough considering there are actual religions affiliated with some of the western european nations
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: i do see myself in agreement with republicans, only because they are the lesser of two evils. i like the ideology (conservative) behind the Repub. party, but they are corrupt in that their motive is power, which is really human nature, so i cant blame them, i suppose
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: the democratic party, IMO, seems even more caught up in demagoguery, and i disagree with liberal ideology in that it focuses on self-gratification as a basis for social policy
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: and it is largely secular, for that reason
gnatso24: how is a more social domestic policy more self-gratifying?
gnatso24: thats what draws me to the liberal viewpoint - that its not just about self-gratification, but rather the improvement as the whole
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: right, the focus is on the whole rather than the individual
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: but lets consider education
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: we are taught in school that every viewpoint is equal, everyone is on the same level, no one is better than anyone else, we should all feel good about ourselves no matter what the effort, and so forth
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: inherently it is not bad, but it promotes weaker students indoctrinated in pluralism and moral relativism
gnatso24: see i think that you might be viewing the entier thing differently, no one will argue that we are not all equal, but the social aspect of trying to aid those less fortunate is what im speaking about
gnatso24: and either way i dont see self-gratification playing a role in the situation
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: then why do they tell kids in the public school that homosexuality is OK? (i am not saying it is or isnt, i am just asking)
gnatso24: because it certainly is
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: or that, at least, it is just another way to reach sexual gratification
gnatso24: this is just opening up another problem because you believe its amoral and i believe its simply fulfillment of the love that everyone wants and some find in ways that are not aligned with the christian way
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: concerning education, at the core i probably do not disagree with you on much, its just the method by which we try to reach a quality education. colleges, for example, maintain a high level of education by competing with one another. i believe it woudl be wise if our government got over the idea that they have to be in control of every child's education and allowed public schools and private schools to compete in such a way. thus i think vouchers are a completely reasonable idea
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: yes, homosexuality is definitely another discussion, but if you ever want to me back up why I believe it is immoral, feel free to ask.
gnatso24: im pretty sure i know why, and that;s totall your call
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: and my reasoning is not simply "because the bible said so"
gnatso24: haha no i would expect more from you, keith
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: haha. good.
gnatso24: well this really has been fun, in all seriousness, and very interesting
gnatso24: but ive gotta go get in some more quality liberal economic theory reading tonight haha
r4zz3nd4hcub3n: haha. enjoy. nice talking to you, seeya!
gnatso24: adiosss