Orc-brat Review Responses
"Chapter One: Churning"
"Chapter Two: Roots/Knife/Eyes"
"Chapter Three: Cutting"
"Chapter Four: Pine"
"Chapter Five: Night Watch"
"Chapter Six: Shaping"
"Chapter Seven: Naming"
"Chapter Eight: Elimination"
"Chapter Nine: Half-Ways"
"Chapter Ten: Picking"
"Chapter Eleven: Touching"
"Chapter Twelve: The Hand-Off"
"Chapter Thirteen: Baiting"
"Chapter Fourteen: Liver"
"Chapter Fifteen: Orc, Orc, Uruk"
"Chapter Sixteen: Flasug"
"Chapter Seventeen: Oil And Water"
"Chapter Eighteen: Hands On"
"Chapter Nineteen: Trapped"
"Chapter Twenty: Lessons and Assignations"
"Chapter Twenty-One: Mir Flasug"
"Chapter Twenty-Two: Ditch"
Responses to reviews for "Chapter One: Churning"
shadow975: Yeah, putting the warning that things will be getting nasty after the brother and father buy it and there are intimations of rape does rather defeat the purpose, doesn't it? [smacks forehead] Thank you, I have rectified this now.
Enros: Funny, I didn't like Lyra either. Well-written character but irritated me. I think it has something to do with Pullman making such a big deal about her not having an imagination. I like Maevyn but I'm not sure other people will. She's not going to be the most likeable person. I want her, like the Orcs, to be at once more and less complicated than pure good or evil.
Aetre: Ah, the adjectives. I'm way too verbose: I'll probably hack and slash at this more at some point in the future. Rampant modifiers are the bane of my existence. Violence will continue to be prominent in this story due to the nature of the characters but I anticipate entering them in much greater depth since they are the chief draw for me. I actually made myself cut out some initial characterization because I was trying to keep a loose hand before I brought in the fine brushes.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Two: Roots/Knife/Eyes"
Iverin: Thanks for the enthusiastic response! You get a cookie. 8) Which do you prefer - oatmeal or chocolate-chip?
shadow975: In addition to being my first LotR fic, this is also my first chapter fanfic and I have the feeling it's going to be quite long. I hope to add new chapters fairly regularly. Writing a lot at the moment as I'm trying to avoid my thesis. No doubt this will inject further grimness into the proceedings. Glad you like Maevyn: she's going to get a lot feistier before I'm done with her!
Enros: I had actually thought about mentioning the knife in the first chapter but felt it would read like too much of an "ah-HA" detail. You're right, it's definitely a bit deus ex machina but I thought I'd go ahead and toss it in the sandbox since Lord knows it doesn't end up helping her any. Thanks for your suggestions, I appreciate the close reading!
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Three: Cutting"
Iverin: Hope you like the chewy kind. 8)
Sharka: Hah, I did that for "Tashuk's Secret" too. I'm very much looking forward to seeing where you go next with that story. Thanks for your comments as well. I like precision too - my problem is sometimes I get stuck on it. I always have to edit heavily before I can put up anything to get rid of at least some of the -ly and -ing words. That and vary my sentence structure.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Four: Pine"
shadow975: Special thanks for your compliment on Eleluleniel's last lines. I was worried that they might be phrased in a funky way.
Iverin: Thanks! So what are the other two stories you are monitoring religiously? I've been following Virvatuli's "Mock My Innocence" closely myself. That fic is hilarious.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Five: Night Watch"
Enros: Informed readers rock! As it happens, the Elf+Rape=Death formula is part of the inspiration behind Eleluleniel's character. I found this detail of Tolkien's rather troubling in its implications and wanted to work with it - this chapter happens to contain the first allusions. (BTW, I understand not liking Leni: she is very...Elf. I'm surprised to find her growing on me as much as she is. I guess I need her to keep me sane around all these big Orcs.)
shadow975: Thanks! I wanted to establish a definite camaraderie amongst the lads whilst not forgetting what species they are. Bragdagash's little band has been together for a while and are fairly intimate with one another as Orcs go, though they remain pissy little buggers. They even all speak the same Orkish dialect but, being a latecomer, Hrahragh's syntax is markedly unpolished.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Six: Shaping"
Enros: Frankly, I think Leni's just too passive to commit suicide. Though I think there is a certain underlying strength there that I want to explore...but this may just be wishful thinking on my part. Think think think - I really don't know anything, I'm just the author. (Man. I am so glad that thrice-cursed thesis is behind me. Someday I'll go back to it and actually write it good. In the meantime...heh heh. Fanfic.)
Just Another Nameless Face: Thank you, you beautiful kind person-type entity. I realize you wrote your review nearly a year ago, but I've finally updated. If you haven't stuck around, I totally understand. If you have, and you're reading this - again, my thanks.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Seven: Naming"
Sharka: Thanks. I still like Chapter Seven the least of those I've written so far: it doesn't really say anything NEW. But in terms of some relationship delineation, it does serve as a kind of...well, pressure cooker of sorts. (Moo. Does that make sense?) Oh, hey, just to let you know, I revised all the previous chapters, most importantly six and seven. Some key stuff regarding which Orcs do what when, where and with whom...especially since I decided to send Kurbag out to face falling bird crap....
Enros: I was glad to read your review - your opinion means a lot to me, especially since you are very honest with your criticisms. Yeah, Grymawk may be a bit of a small potato for an Orc but if Maevyn went for him one-on-one in traditional combat she'd be dead quickly. Gotta watch out for the wiry ones.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Eight: Elimination"
Enros: Now that's a kind thing to say about the dialogue. Dialogue is definitely what comes easiest to me. Actually, it disturbs me how much I enjoy channeling the lads. They are such little bitches. Guess it's just that evil Inner Orc. Scoundrels and pissants!
Ang D: Dude-child! I was so excited that you read this! I'm glad you liked it since, as I've said, it's kind of darker than most of what I write. And sure, you've got your Feistus, I guess I've just known him too long, the cuddly fellow [smirk]....It's interesting that you say Kurbag's up in your favorites - out of curiosity, why him in particular? You are teh smarty, and I'm interested in your opinion.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Nine: Half-Ways"
must think up a good name sometime: That works! Constructive criticism is always welcome, but just hearing that people like the story delights me. Thanks so much for your review. 8) I shall now perform the ceremonial Got-A-Review Dance of Joy. [solemnly does the Macarena]
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Ten: Picking"
Sharka: You're quite right! Although actually I checked and the term Tolkien used was "Orkish" (switching the "c" to a "k" to ensure against pronouncing it "Orsish," I guess.) There was a reason I was using the term "Orcine": I was trying to use it as an adjective distinct from the noun "Orcish," which I was using as a word for Orc language. For example, "He speaks Orcish. He has an Orcine accent." But this is just silly, because one doesn't say, "He speaks English. He has an Engline accent." And now the "Porcine" association? Oi! It just keeps getting worse! *g* So I've gone back through the story and changed all usages of both "Orcine" and "Orcish" to make them "Orkish." Ai. Revisions are never done....
Enros: (*excited*) mini-essay on Kurbag! With regard to the Kurbag/Leni thing - I know, it's an odd dynamic. All of the Orcs have ways in which they are slightly more or less Orkish than the others, but Kurbag is one of the weirder ones. Like the others he is very id: centered on himself and his own gratification. At the same time, he has an attachment to Leni that is neither romantic nor remarkably profound. Stems at least partly from a mundane hormonal juvenile gut-level "Durrr, I like you, you're pretty" mindset. Then too he treats her rather like a pet (but not as I would want any mature individual to treat a pet): as a source of amusement and gratification, to enjoy one-sidedly, to care about in a self-centered way and show the most casual sort of tenderness. He's also the extroverted, chatty sort of person who talks to his pet. The "my day" line is intended to be amusing in a way because, of course, why would he think she gives a crap? Why should she be invested? What consideration has he shown her to warrant any reciprocity? But Kurbag doesn't think of this and he isn't a very empathetic or considerate fellow. He does what he wants to; is cruel but not intentionally so; cares about Leni but in an abstract, peripheral way with only the most occasional, sketchy and disinterested moments of insight. Kurbag is like the guy who breaks into a woman's apartment, rapes her, tucks her in afterwards and tells her with sincere concern that she should be more careful about locking her door. Unconsciously selfish, and skewed. Yup, that's Kurbag.
Grubby: Oh AWESOME. Thank you so much for this link! For anyone who didn't see it, check out this link: http : // brinja . bei . t-online . de / Black%20Speech%20Index . html. This is excellent. The very notion of a Black Speech course has me wriggling. (Uy. Why couldn't I have put this kind of energy into French and Greek?) Meanwhile, my Grubby friend, I squint at you thoughtfully. I'm pretty sure I recognize you from somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Very glad to know you are enjoying the story, though. 8)
LeLita: Yipe! Thanks for saying that! I was reloading this chapter with some minor changes and there must have been some kind of system SNAFU. Thanks for catching that and, um, I guess if you are reading this response you were able to bring up the chapter fine now....
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Eleven: Touching"
must think up a good name sometime: LOL. I'm glad you liked the monkey monologue - it was fun to write and simply tripped off the keyboard. The scene at the end was harder, of course, and I ended up going almost completely to dialogue to get through it.
Werecat99: Thanks for the close read! I incorporated a number of your suggestions, though I'm leaving the obscenities stand for a couple reasons. "Shit" and "fuck" may not have been common in formal printed literature until the 20th century, but are nonetheless quite old: part of the English language since at least Chaucer's day. At the same time, when reading LOTR, we have to bear in mind that none of the characters are truly speaking English but various tongues of Ardalambion instead. Tolkien says, "In presenting the matter of the Red Book, as a history for people of today to read, the whole of the linguistic setting has been translated as far as possible into terms of our own times." This varies: the Hobbits, an unassuming everyday kind of folk, use fairly normal speech, while the Elves and the more "noble" among Men use a formal, old-fashioned "high" mode of speech, for "in those days all the enemies of the Enemy revered what was ancient, in language no less than in other matters." In the Tolkien mindset, there is a strong archaic = good / modern = bad dynamic. Accordingly, Orc speech was modeled on exaggerated contemporary cockney: colloquial, careless, vulgar and littered with casual slang: "leg it," "garn," "Number One" (their rather cute nickname for the Witch-king of Angmar) and the like. While Tolkien's Orcs are frequently profane, he refrains from depicting any actual profanity - however, he elaborates,
...Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, though models are easy to find. Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong.
Is my face red? Tolkien is great at conjuring up the full nastiness of the Orcs without four-letter words - that said, I can't bring myself to deny the lads quality Anglo-Saxon....
Rikard: Thanks for the kind words! If you are reading this, it's because I've added another chapter. The story should continue for some time to come - at least, I've seen a lot of what's going to happen: the problem is finding the words and putting them down. It pleases me that you can see this happening in the Tolkienverse. I have thought about the idea of rewriting for the purpose of publication as original fiction, but will need to think about it. I'm not sure many people would be able take the combination of a child's primary POV with this kind of subject matter in a fantasy novel. Still, you never know.
*Waiting*: Sorry to have kept you...uh...waiting. I hope this does something to make up for the delay.
Sneere: I introduced you to what? Damn ff . net's habit of stripping URLs! Do you mean uruk-hai . org? If so, I'm afraid I don't remember doing so, but yeah, that site is wonderful. Sharka is so good to all of us. I hope she updates "Tashuk's Secret" soon....
Nazgirl: I'm alive! And I like your handle. "Nazgirl"....
DarkElfGurl: Thanks! I do hope that I will finish this story some day - like I said to Rikard, I've seen a lot that will happen, and I even have a sense of how the story will probably end. But it won't be for a while yet.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Twelve: The Hand-Off"
Sneere: After you asked about C2s I looked through the LOTR section and I didn't find any for Orcs or their assorted kinfolk, more's the pity. Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, with regard to romance, Leni's the Elven equivalent of thirteen and Maevyn is nine so you might be waiting a while... 0_0
Nazgirl: It wasn't. [smiles] Hope you like Chapter 13! and that 14 follows decently close behind.
Twylight Elf: I like your Orcs. As you said, they are much as Tolkien and the movies portray them. They are plausibly characterized, and good strong characterization is the "realistic" that is important when writing fantasy. I look forward to another review from you, if you do decide to keep reading.
Grubby: I never properly thanked you for nominating Orc-brat for MEFA 2004! That was so cool of you, too - I was extremely flattered. It actually did take a prize...there weren't enough Orc/Incomplete stories to have a section of their own, so it was placed in the Men/Incomplete section instead, where it won The Ruling Stewards Award (ie. 3rd place.)
DarkElfGurl: See my response to Sneere...Leni and Maevyn are both rather young for romance. I think Maevyn has a crush on Leni, but she's a little kid and doesn't necessarily understand that. As for Eleluleniel, she's in a bad place mentally and emotionally, plus she thinks of Maevyn as a little sister-substitute. They do have a weird dichotomy between the two of them, and it gets weirder, but that's not really romance...at least not the way I see it.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Thirteen: Baiting"
Nazgirl: Thank you for both reviews! I'm glad you liked the line about Nazluk - I was worried it might be too much. I figure Leni and Maevyn will be plenty weird without introducing romance, though Maevyn does have a kind of little kid's crush. You're another person who likes Hrahragh! And I appreciated your suggestion about the summary: I used it right away.
Twylight Elf: Thank you muchly for the Black Speech site! The lads go in and out of Orkish and Westron - I render both in English, depicting actual Orkish if they use it when I'm in non-Orc POV, but I'm gonna start using more Orkish phrases than I've been doing. At first I was hesitant to use anything that wasn't rooted in Tolkien so my options were very limited, but this is changing. RE: your second review....Huh? Where were you idiotic? I thought you were perfectly constructive. I like reviewers that make me think about what I'm doing and I'm usually inclined to take suggestions from them.
DarkElfGurl: As Rukshash once said rather graphically, Maevyn is small and something like that would kill or irreparably damage her. Do the Orcs have scruples about that? This is the question.
Sneere: Oh, I see! You think Maevyn shall live to grow older....[tries to look sinister but fails miserably]
Samus18: Thanks, I will. Your screen handle is cool. Samus Aran rocks!
Fallen Truth: Haven't gotten that far. I know pretty much how it's going to end, but that's a long way off. I can say that the ending is going to be...well...most people will probably find it anticlimactic and get annoyed with me. It will be interesting to see the response.
Elf8: [looks creeped out]
BondageOrc: So I got your very non-freaky and constructive review, which did wonders for my mood. I am thrilled my Orcs have your approval, oh Lurtz-Goddess. The world owes you thanks for the Orcgasm website, and for setting up a properly Orkish C2. Anyway, about Leni: watch as I go off into another one of my beloved mini-essays, laced with a healthy dose of writerly insecurity....
Flat? Drat! Leni has been badly ground down by what she's been through, but just because a character is in pain doesn't mean she should be a pain to read - that's what my old writing center professor would call imitative fallacy. Suggestions in this vein are much appreciated. As far as my original thoughts went, Kurbag and Nazluk came to me first of all the characters and they turned out to have an Elf attached. I figured "Squeaker" being with the Orcs created precedent for Maevyn being with the Orcs, and that she would provide Maevyn with a safety buffer, at least initially. Now she functions as a nexus for several different characters, and as a study in contrasts with Maevyn. They're both young girls who are surviving by going about it in very different ways. On the one hand I automatically root for Maevyn because she's a spunky little twerp; on the other hand, Leni has stayed alive for three months under abysmal conditions, more than Maevyn can say at this point, and remained fairly true to herself. Oh - understanding on the Elvish score: my warning tag for this story elsewhere is "Rape & A very Elven Elf," but I've grown to become quite fond of her. Under all the trauma/"I-am-Elf" I see her natural temperament as a kind of blithe budding domestic femininity. She's a girly-girl: alien to my own sensibilities, but within those parameters she finds little ways of being proactive...or I like to think she does. I need to bring that across more.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Fourteen: Liver"
BondageOrc: Comforting myths play into it, although I conceive of it most as a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think Tolkien's Elves die because they are "supposed to." Congratulations on triggering another mini-essay: Lauderdale on "Elves, raped, die" as depicted in Tolkien - or, alternatively, how J. R. R. succeeded in truly pissing me off -
The concept stems from a footnote in Morgoth's Ring, wherein Tolkien writes, "Among all these evils there is no record of any among the Elves that took another's spouse by force; for this was wholly against their nature, and one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos." If we examine this quote we see that it is very specific, referring to adulterous rape of an Elf by another Elf. Nonetheless, "Elves, raped, die" across the board is a reasonable extrapolation. Tolkien's Elves are powerful beings with an unusual command over their souls: it is not surprising that Elves, raped, should will themselves into a death stemming from the fatal combination of their great anguish and their great strength. So that's one way of looking at it. On another level, I see Tolkien's concept as stemming from a longstanding convention, literary and otherwise, which I refer to as the "Good girls die" tradition. They kill themselves or they are killed, they die in childbirth or they waste away. They have been ruined - ergo, they must be dispatched. Why? Because we are uncomfortable with victims. Victims, particularly living victims, are reminders: they force us to confront an actuality we would prefer to forget or gloss over. In real life we don't have the luxury of simply knocking them off (not these days, anyway, although depending on the culture....) But historically and in fiction - in oral traditions, plays, novels, poems, operas, ballads, for many thousands of years - it has been the norm. Good girls die because it is good form. In Tolkien's writing, "Elves, raped, die" is "Good girls die" elevated and placed on a pedestal. Elves are virtuous, strong and the epitome of good form. Of course Elves, raped, die. To live would be dishonor.
Frankly, I find the idea grotesque on many levels. The disempowerment. The dehumanization. The glorification of death as ennobling romantic fantasy. The tie-in to some old and unappealing standards of womanly worth (although gender appears to have been less of an issue for Elves than it has been for humans, and "Elves, raped, died" can apply to male Elves as well.) All of this has gone into how I conceive of Leni and her situation - a good girl who was raped and continues to be raped and should have died but hasn't. What does it mean, and where do we go from there?
Um...that didn't scare you off, did it? Yeah. Elven rape. It keeps me up at night.
Nazgirl: I'm glad that you like the day-to-day life of the Orcs, because that's where I have the most fun. I love writing for these bastards. Angst and pathos catch at the heartstrings, action and high drama can be edge-of-the-seat reading, but my favorite part is showing a motley crew mooching around in between. Who is your favorite crime novelist, I ask, even though I have so many of my own books to read....
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Fifteen: Orc, Orc, Uruk"
DarkElfGurl: Yes, it is bad for someone to use words when they don't know what those words mean. Maevyn is learning very quickly, though. Sorry that this update wasn't bigger!
Elf8: Glad you think she's cute when she swears, because she's going to be doing more of it.
Sneere: Here's Grushak and Maevyn - "Eat your food." "No." "Eat it!" "I won't!" "RAWWWR!!" Yes, their relationship is coming along splendidly.
Nazgirl: Yes, I'm American but I actually lived in Norway from '92 to '96, age 11 to 15. So I am thrilled to have a Norwegian reader! My father was with the American Embassy - my family lived on Bygdøy and I attended the British International School in Oslo (which moved to Bekkestua two years in and was renamed Oslo International - go figure.) Contrary me, though, I learned no Norwegian in Norway but French.
BondageOrc: I blathered at you some in lj, but otherwise, yeah. Hey, speaking of Saruman's breeding program, I saw this thing online somewhere that refers to Tolkien referring to Saruman as breeding "Men-Orcs and Orc-Men." I'd have to find it again, but I thought that was rather intriguing, the idea that he devised two different new breeds of Orcs and not just one. Obviously the fighting Uruk-hai, and then I suppose the other kind are the "evil men" that Sam and the others encounter when they return to the Shire....
Rikard: Sweden too? Wow! And I love George R. R. Martin's books. Arya is my favorite character: no surprise there, right? Though I'm probably the only person who actually feels bad for Sansa. Stockholm Syndrom is something I thought about with Maevyn from the get-go (not that she ever falls in love with her captors.) And no Dark Lord? Well, I do think that the Uruk-hai and the Orcs would get over their hostilities and pool their resources somewhat; no Dark Hordes sweeping the land to conquer all of Middle Earth, but then again, I don't think they really want to. A roving mixed unit like Bragdagash's band is probably as close to organized as Orcs get these days: small enough to have the stamina and the discipline to lope around the fertile lands for an extended period of time. In a large group, in the mountains and the caves, I think infighting and overcrowding lead to continuous frustration, which in turn leads to looting, pillaging and rapine - it's almost what they do to clear their heads. Talk about your weekend warriors.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Sixteen: Flasug"
Sneere: Sneere: Heh. It was sarcasm but not mean sarcasm. The way Grushak treats Maevyn is scary but I do find it darkly funny at times. She is a spitfire at any age - 13 would definitely be interesting. Her feelings about Leni are complicated by many different factors, not least of which is that they are such very different people. More Gru coming shortly. And is there such a thing as too many questions? I think not!
Nazgirl: I too love the
picture of Mushog, and K was happy about your compliment. 8) I'm
also glad you liked the way I wrote Maevyn's reaction. I don't
want to underplay the Leni-Kurbag situation but, now that the
"climax" of revelation and initial response are behind, it
is becoming more matter-of-fact. Maevyn has her own problems
to contend with, but this will remain a reality affecting her and the
other characters in the story.
Just Me: Wow, thanks!
I'm glad you like the story. More will come.
DarkElfGurl: Glad you
liked "fetch." It was a cheap gag, but I like cheap gags.
Hrahragh scores another fan!
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Seventeen: Oil And Water"
Beanie_platypus: Oh
yay, thank you for reviewing! I too hope that I can string it out as
long as I can. You are quite right: Tolkien just didn't appreciate
his Orcs. I mean, once you throw redemption/rehabilitation out the
window and accept the basic premise of bloody-minded rapacious
banality, they're really very charming, aren't they?
DarkElfGurl: Thanks!
Here you go. Er, there you went....
Nazgirl: "My Naz?
Jealous? Why, whatever gave you that idea?" she asks, winking and
snickering. Thanks for what you said about the lads having different
personalities. I sometimes worry it is unwieldy with ten of them
running around the place - I mean, I can keep track of them but I'm
not always sure that others can.
Sharka: I'd been
waiting such a long time to use that scene with Leni and Nazluk. I
really love writing the two of them together, partly because I love
Nazluk, partly because I think his direct brand of cruelty forces her
to push back a little more overtly - as you said, it gives her more
dimension.
BondageOrc: I remember
Tolkien saying something somewhere about Orcs being dismayed by
water. Though maybe he referred to minions of Sauron in general
being allergic to Lord Ulmo's element because OMG, they R unnatural
N stuff! But no species can survive without some basic form of
personal hygiene: even dogs lick their own balls. Since Orcs aren't
that flexible - with the possible exception of Mushog, who is Uruk
anyway - I was hoping oil and strigil would sound feasible.
Sneere: I had a lot of
fun with Rukshash. That part seems to have pretty much garnered the
reaction I was hoping for, which makes me glad. This chapter should
have taken care of some loose ends, ie. Maevyn's bath. K-Bag's
confusing you? What did he do this time?
Just Me: There will be
other characters eventually, though the cast is pretty much closed
for now. Hmm, romance for Leni...she's really very young and a bit
traumatized to be thinking along those lines, but who knows what the
distant distant future may bring? As to where our little
band's travels will take them, that is the stuff of further
chapters.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Eighteen: Hands On"
Nazgirl:
All of the Orcs are pretty mellow in this chapter. They don't often take the opportunity to clean up, so when they do it's a bit of a treat for them. Mushog was behaving badly so I'm amused to see him collecting friends.
As for Kurbag, there has always been an extreme disconnect in the way that he treats Leni - it is one of the weirder aspects of both his character and the story. He rarely speaks to her unkindly and yet he brutalizes her on a daily basis. He carries her back to the camp after one rape and engages in small-talk before another. He seems to be genuinely fond of her and yet has a total blind spot to her pain. It is a brand of selfishness that I'm afraid is not without corrolary in real life.
I'm actually working on a kind of "prequel" to Orc-brat about the circumstances surrounding Leni's capture and her initial time among the Orcs. It is extremely distressing. There are some interesting scenes between her and Kurbag.
Isn't K's art great? I really like this most recent one for the subtle shift of features between the Uruk-hai and the regular Orcs. She's gonna be doing Grushak next, and I am gung-ho to see what she comes up with.
DarkElfGurl:
About Kurbag impregnating Leni - it is not at all a stupid question and I have had a couple conversations about it with my friend K. If Orcs can interbreed with humans and humans can interbreed with Elves then I am sure Orcs and Elves can interbreed - especially since Orcs are originally supposed to have come of Elven stock. So Leni could indeed be impregnated by Kurbag. However, she is still very young - the Elven equivalent of thirteen - and her lifestyle among the Orcs is not conducive to a successful pregnancy. Constant travel, erratic nutrition, mistreatment and an immature body mean she would almost certainly miscarry - probably before she was ever even aware of being pregnant. Which is fortunate for her, because I don't like to think how it would affect her sanity.
Leni has also been damaged, and continues to be damaged, by being raped. Rape at any age is awful - rape when you are as young as Leni is and your body is still developing can do lasting physical harm. Even if she were to be rescued from the Orcs and to lead a normal life, she may never be able to have children.
It's something I may yet explore. K, I remember, was very interested in the idea of an AU in which Leni becomes pregnant by Kurbag, and what would happen then. As for Leni having Kurbag's baby in the Orc-brat story itself, though, that is highly unlikely.
BondageOrc:
I'm tickled to see that Mushog is making buddies. I was having fun with him in this chapter. (He was too - a little too much fun, I think.) As for Kurbag, I'm glad of your comment - there's always been an an extreme disconnect in the way that he treats Leni, and I want that to be disturbing. There are so many stories that wind up as -
Rapist: SUFFER!!
Victim: Ouch!
I think it's much more disturbing when there is a relationship, I guess because of that element of betrayal....
As for Nazluk, what I meant to say was that his manner was separate and distinct from the others...no, I lie, that really should have been "discreetly." Thanks for catching that! In fact, I see I did it twice. What's worse is that I've actually used "discrete" in this story before, and correctly too.
Just Me:
Maevyn will learn to swim if I have to see to it myself. Swimming is a crucial skill for kids to have, the earlier the better. You never know when a crazy naked Uruk might decide to chuck your brat into a pond.
That balance of funny and nasty is something I strive for - though I don't have to strive very hard as the lads do most of it for me. I like when a story, even if it is primarily serious, acknowledges the absurdities in even the grimmest situations. For some reason one of my favorite bits is in Chapter Thirteen when Maevyn is provoking Grymawk and he suddenly grabbs her and slams her into the side of the cliff. Everytime I read that part I laugh, and every time I laugh I have to stop and go, "Gah! Why am I laughing? This is child abuse! I'm a jerk!" I hope that occasionally other people experience these queasy moments.
If you want to read something brutally hilarious you should try Mary Gentle's Grunts!. This is just about the most violent, disturbing and wholly irreverent fantasy novel you could hope for. It has Orcs in it. It has Orcs with machine guns. It is also the origin for one of the nastiest and most frequently repeated Orc quotes ever: "And pass me another elf, Sergeant. This one's split."
Sharka:
Ah, Mushog. I think it's both: he's definitely an Uruk, definitely a jerk, and his sense of humor is definitely...special. He's not really interested in doing that to Maevyn - she's too small - but at the same time he gets his jollies out of teasing her. Well, now that Grushak has drawn a firm boundary line there will be more with the two of them. When Mushog is with Maevyn he makes me think of curbside dynamics waiting for the school bus as a child. There's always that older kid who decides that the youngsters waiting with him are woefully ignorant about the world and that he is the one to educate them...his idea of education being much posturing and swaggering, frequent interjection of inappropriate subject matter, whilst mixing in some bogus information so he can laugh about it later....
I'm glad you like my little crew of OCs. I'm glad that there are people who like this story, even though there are no characters from the books/movies - that has been a pleasant surprise. I didn't anticipate how much I was going to end up doing with the individual Orcs, and it's been a bizarre pleasure getting to know them.
Sneere:
Well that's flattering! [beams] It's taking me a while but this story is by no means forgotten, I assure you.
KariLeann:
Hi Kari, thanks for your review! Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner - I was out of town. I'm glad that you are enjoying Bragdagash's band of murderous scum. I too am eager to see what happens with Maevyn and Grushak. Chapter 19 should offer some fun stuff with the pair of them when I get around to writing it - I've just been busy with RL matters and what writing I've done lately has been for "Treed," a story about Leni and Kurbag and about how Leni came to be among the Orcs. So far I've posted one chapter.
I am so sad about Uruk-hai.org closing down. Sharka's update is the high point of my month, and some of those stories aren't available anywhere else. If you're up for a recommendation, one really great story that isn't on Uruk-hai.org is Virvatuli's "Mock My Innocence." MMI is well-written, character-driven and seriously funny: if you like Orcs, I'm sure you'll love it. I can recommend a few more titles if you're interested - otherwise, any time you just want to drop a line, feel free! I love hearing from people.
ChristineX:
Hi ChristineX, thanks for your review, and I'm glad people are still reading OB despite my neglect. I'm going to update, I swear I am, I just want Chapter 19 to be good when I do, or at least serve some purpose beyond filling up space and providing a place for news bulletins. Hopefully soon. In the meantime I've been working on "Treed," which is a prequel of sorts and in which Kurbag is a leading character. "Hawt"? I can see that. I've been interested to note that it is usually Hrahragh who gets that response, although 'Shog's been garnering some attention as well. Boy's gonna get a swelled head. Listen, if you're an Orc lover and haven't yet, be sure to check out Uruk-hai.org. It's not gonna be around for much longer but it houses a fine collection of stories about the lovable lugs. Meanwhile, I'll be looking forward to an update of your own story, "Absolution."
Miscreant K:
A review from Miscreant K! This warrants a gesture of hardcore appreciation. [Expurgated for heavy NC-17 content.] K, you are wonderful.
Pounamu:
I don't mind at all - in fact, I thank you very much. You know, I've never really had the desire to write about any of the characters from LOTR, though I am actually rather fond of them. I've had vague plotbunnies about some of Tolkien's Orcs, which I suppose is not all that surprising. Otherwise...I love working with my own characters: they become very real to me after a while, to the point where they go with me pretty much everywhere. (It can get pretty noisy in my head these days.) I've also learned a lot writing them - about Tolkien and just how rich his world is. I'm not the best world-builder, but I very much enjoy working with the world he created.
Pen52:
Responded in greater depth to your review of "Treed" - thanks for reviewing both stories! And sorry for the lengthy period that has elapsed since my last update.
Artemis1000:
No, I don't think it's just wishful thinking on your part: Maevyn is the Orc-brat, after all. She's a child and a survivor - reckless, impressionable and adaptable. The danger is that she might lose herself completely in this world of savagery: whether her hatred for Grushak could draw her to mirror him in behavior and attitude.
I so can't take credit for the fish line! That was W. C. Fields - I just translated it. I love that quote.
Sorry not to have responded to your review sooner! Have you been making a sweep of some of ff . net's Orc fanfiction? It seems to me I've seen your reviews on some other Orc stories out there. There is another story I've been working on called "Treed" about Leni and Kurbag, and about how Leni first comes to be among the Orcs. It is, unsurprisingly, rather depressing. Five chapters so far, if you're interested.
Eliriel:
Thanks, that is high praise! Your screen name is beautiful, by the way. "Star-Song Maiden"?
Zevrillion:
Thanks! Glad you like it.
--
My apologies to those who reviewed Chapter Eighteen but did not receive a response. I think there are some folks I may have missed, and it's been such a long time. If you're reading this and you didn't get a response, please poke me.
--
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Nineteen: Trapped"
beanie_platypus:
That was a long and kind review. I'm glad you like the ensemble quality of the story. It's gotten stronger in the last few chapters, and sometimes I worry that the POV becomes "skippy" and distracting, if you know what I mean. I think I'm decent at managing a scene with multiple people without it getting out of control, but I feel more comfortable with the writing when it focuses more on one character or another.
I'm not sure how much Leni believes that she is going to be saved at this point, or that there is much of her worth saving (apologies if that sounds melodramatic but she's been through the grinder, emotionally-speaking). She certainly *wants* to believe it, though. And re: the question of rape, that is an interesting explanation and one that I haven't other people mention: the idea of Tolkien's stipulation as a cultural hint to kill yourself. It's crossed my mind. My thoughts on the matter are a little complicated and I've had reason to ramble about it before - I don't think OB well ever expressly state the reason Leni hasn't died, but I know what I think about the matter.
Re: surviving in the company of Orcs, Maevyn has toughness in plenty, and some canniness as you say, and a lot of luck to start with since it wasn't her scintillating good sense that kept her alive at the beginning. Luck and Leni: Leni because a) Leni has more sense than Maevyn and b) Bragdagash's band have gotten used to having a captive around for an extended period. Orcs/goblins keep slaves back in the caves, at least according to Tolkien, but as for roaming the land with them this is a more exceptional situation.
As for Maevyn and Grushak, I enjoy writing the two of them together and I need to do more of it. I'm hoping that you will like the next chapter: there should be some good stuff along those lines...
TheBlahFactor:
You're very welcome! I hope I will. I plan to anyway, knock on wood.
Nazgirl:
Hah! But *will* the plot thicken? Or will some hapless hobbit fisherman come by, miss the weird marks on the bank and cuss about the rocks in his fishing trap? We can only wait to see...
And what's with the mommy-crack? Who else WERE you thinking of there? [glances at Grushak, then Leni, then looks at Nazgirl suspiciously]
sirval:
Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Freak, that is weird. I like when that happens: when I think of an inactive story, go to it and find that it has *just* been updated. Glad you still like Maevyn. I've missed her.
jules14:
Thanks for your review. Pervy Orc-fanciers unite! Ain't enough Orc fic out there and I love writing it.
Re: Leni, I understand where you're coming from. She's stayed alive at any rate and she's part of the reason that Maevyn wasn't killed earlier, but she isn't the spunky heroine type - even in her old life she was very sensitive and gentle, and since Kurbag took her her spirits have been pretty badly damaged. She'd be much happier and better off at home playing with her calligraphy and her little sister than roughing it in the woods with a band of rapacious Orcs and a sullen Man-brat. As for Maevyn, she and Leni are two different people. I can promise you that she'd die before she ended up the way Leni is, and might yet if she isn't careful.
I too hope to have another chapter up in the not too distant future. [knocks on wood]
Sneer:
Or short *and* buff? [laughs] And it better not be another year. That would make me unhappy.
Freedom Rionach:
Oh great! I'm glad you enjoy them. Maybe you too will become a pervy Orc-fancier! As for Orcs and Uruks - there *are* no Uruks, there are Uruk-hai...oh, I give up... ^_~
Rikard Gadell:
Hi Rikard! 8)
Hmm. I know where I'm going with the story, but I don't know when I'm getting there. It'll be a while yet: a lot of things still to happen. And you know, I'm not sure you're right about George R. R. Martin: he takes a while but when he updates he updates BIG. I'm lucky if I get out five chapters. As for Jordan...[sighs] You know, when they finally put the twelfth book out I'm just going to have to start at the beginning and read all of them through. Last one I read was "The Crown of Swords" and I have forgotten everything in the series.
ChristineX:
Glad you liked the boys being idiots with one another. I'm at work on the next chapter so I hope that it won't be another two years but there, I won't jinx myself. As for Maevyn and Leni and whatever finally ends up happening with them - [shrugs] It may not be what people want, but then again, it may not be what they expect either. I can say one thing, it won't be for a while yet. Anyhow, thanks for your review. I can't believe I'm actually responding in a timely manner: I think you just left it in the past hour. This is mighty uncharacteristic of me. 0_0
TheEvilSurgeon:
I updated again! And this time it was two months, not two years. Chapter 20 was a pain, though. At least it wasn't as persnickety as the previous chapter. Thanks for your comment on the Orcs, and I'd be interested to know what you think of Treed. Maevyn's not around to make things fun, but it is rather an odd relationship - between Kurbag and Leni, I mean - and it's been useful for going back and finding out what happened, and getting a better sense of Kurbag's mental processes.
Kyn:
I like that - "She bites people, and hits things, and knocks giant eagles out of the sky." I want to put that as a caption for a picture of Maevyn looking particularly sulky. And yeah, Grushak ought to think twice before making any Mom-jokes about other people.
I'm glad that the Orcs aren't too black-and-white as characters. As for the ending, I don't know how people are going to react to it. It is still quite a ways off, though, I can say that much.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Twenty: Lessons and Assignations"
Sneere:
"old enought to bleed? as in a menstral cylce? or just in genereal?" --> Yeah, menstrual cycle. It's stupid reasoning - getting your period doesn't necessarily mean you have the hips and other bodily developments for giving birth, etc. - but Mushog's never been the brightest fork in the shed...
Glad you like Grushak and Hrahragh!
Kyn:
I was absolutely thrilled to receive this review, which was very long and thought-out, and I don’t think it gives anything away to say that you have the right idea about most of it: both Maevyn’s increasing adaption to and inclusion by the Orcs, and your analysis of her and Leni. The instinct to contrast the two is in keeping with the story, when they are frequently bewildered by or in opposition to one another. It is also true that Maevyn is more suited to an Orkish lifestyle than Leni – because she is human, perhaps, and humans are closer to Orcs than they might like to admit? (Because your observations in that regard are very true as well. There is nothing Orcs do that humans haven’t done, often on a grander, crueler scale, and in fairly recent history. The current decade has certainly been grotesque enough in its own right, with people tortured and killed in numbers unprecedented even in the ancient world…)
I will say that, while Maevyn’s strength is the more obvious of the two, she is nonetheless indebted to Leni for her survival, at least during those first days among the Orcs…and I think afterwards as well, because I figure there have probably been several occasions when she was inclined to do something stupid that would have gotten her killed if Leni wasn’t there to temper her. This is my own interpretation of the matter and by no means authoritative, but we can at least say that Maevyn is the younger, Leni the older. Maevyn is the more headlong of the two, more focused on revenge than on survival (unless it is staying alive to have her revenge) whereas Leni is cautious and careful. She is more fearful than Maevyn—with reason—and very ill-suited to life among Orcs, but she has proven adept at staying alive.
But as you say, Leni has still has a home and a family (or most of one) that she could possibly go back to. Whereas Maevyn has…?
It is still some distance away, but I will be very interested in your opinion of the final outcomes for these two characters.
Nazgirl:
Lauderdale moves like a glacier. It takes finishing another chapter before I respond to your review (Chapter Twenty-One will be uploaded once I have finished responding to people).
As terrifying as the thought is, I have been trying to imagine what Grushak would have been like as a 10-year-old. His temperament, and how would he have responded to Maevyn? And would he already have been big for his age or was he a small-fry that bulked up unexpectedly? It’s funny, because I have very clear mental pictures of Nazluk at 10 or 12…but then again, I think Nazluk is pretty much Nazluk at any age…
beanieplatypus:
You were ridiculously helpful in responses to this chapter elsewhere: I won’t go into all of that again but it bears repeating: thank you for your criticisms and suggestions.
I’m glad you liked the use of “assignation” in the chapter title. I’m not always happy with chapter titles but if this pleased someone then I am satisfied. I was tempted to call it “Splitting Hares” but thought that might be corny even for me…I also liked your comment on how the members of Bragdagash’s band tend to watch each other. “Looking for weaknesses,” as you say—and of course, being in each others’ company for months on end, there’s not much else to do between marching and raiding. It might be different if they had access to cable, or at least “Grey’s Anatomy.”
The truth is Mushog was an early contributor to the Hungarian Phrasebook. “My nipples explode with delight” is Orkish for “Let us slaughter them with impunity.” Actually…reverse that…that might just be cause and effect. This is Mushog we’re talking about.
I think “Puppy" may have been my favorite bit from this chapter, just because I could see it so clearly in my head. Heartless sadistic Grushak…hapless indignant Maevyn…
TheEvilSurgeon:
Leni has definitely changed during the time between “Treed” and “Orc-brat.” In the next chapter she actually talks about why she wouldn’t help Maevyn learn Orkish. I side with Maevyn personally—I think most people do—but from Leni’s point of view this is the language of the creatures that abducted and raped her. She can’t bring herself to use it, nor does she want to. Leni has a battle of her own that she is fighting, a very internal one, trying to hold on to her integrity and some part of her old self. From Leni’s point of view, Maevyn is allowing herself to be corrupted…
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Twenty-One: Mir Flasug"
Sneere:
Yeah, it's a sound device, although where "Rain in Spain" is assonance, "Rakothas rogtar" is consonance: emphasizing the Rs, like you said. But I was thinking of "Rain in Spain" when I wrote it so it's funny you should mention it. 8) As for the dress scene, I've always rather liked that part myself. But Leni doesn't have a new dress yet...
Kyn:
Ack! I have a new chapter one month later: hopefully that's ok. Re: the other meanings of "change," you're very right about that - sometimes, like Neil Gaiman said about his Sandman comics, it is a question of "Change or die." In Maevyn's case, she could have told Leni that she's been changed already. Having your family killed off changes you...and of course Leni herself isn't really the same as she was before Kurbag took her: I think even she realizes that. But the two girls are in such different places philosophically and personality-wise, there are some things they'll probably never agree on.
Orcwen:
I hope you see this response! I miss the days when we could just put our responses to reviews at the end of new chapters. However, I'm glad you're enjoying the story and I do want to thank you for your review and for your thoughts about the two characters. In some ways I think it is the reverse for Maevyn and Leni: Leni is terrified of death and has been working hard to stay alive through a system of obedience and appeasement, while Maevyn dwells on revenge and often puts herself at risk. They're both fairly tenacious, though.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter Twenty-Two: Ditch"
Sneere:
I'm glad you liked the pig-hunting scene. It's actually not a very long scene but I put a lot of effort into it, researching what I could on pig wrestling and butchering ahead of time. (YouTube is a scary place.)
Yeah, Maevyn chickened. I'm not even sure if she was really trying to leave or if she just felt like she couldn't sleep next to Leni anymore. They'd exchanged harsh words, so they were both pretty tense.
Actually, the Orcs don't just call her "tark" - they call her "Brat" a lot, or "girl" (and Grymawk calls her Bait, though I haven't shown him doing that yet, as far as I know.) But as to her real name? I don't know if that will ever change. You could say it's the dehumanizing component, taking someone's name from them. No one calls Leni by her name either, but then again, her proper name is too long to say.
TheMadPuppy:
Thank you for your kind words. That means a lot, especially coming from someone who is not, as you say, a particular fan of LOTR or of Orcs. So far as how I write, I guess it's a mixture of both. I actually know how things are going to end and have a strong idea of how the last chapters of this story will play out. Getting there, though, writing these sort of middle chapters, they are vague, with the exception of a few definite plot points and episodes that I know I will be hitting as I go along.
BTW, I owe you a couple of reviews now - I clicked on one of your stories because I was curious and ended up reading something like half of them. You do a really good Joker and Harley Quinn, more like a fist in the eye than a spoon full of sugar.
Sharka:
Glad you're still reading! I hope this doesn't disappoint too much. Sadly, she didn't make it to the village - not this time, at any rate. There will be other villages in the future, though.