Treed Review Responses
"Chapter I: The Sound of Trouble"
"Chapter II: Seeing Red"
"Chapter III: The Scent of Fear"
"Chapter IV: A Taste For Flesh"
"Chapter V: A World of Pain"
"Chapter VI: Rituals Of The Body"
"Chapter VII: What The Heart Knows"
"Chapter VIII: Coming In Two"
"Chapter IX: The Morning After"
"Chapter X: More Than Rations"
"Chapter XI: Strange Overtures"
"Chapter XII: Social Graces"
"Chapter XIII: Elven Grace"
Responses to reviews for "Chapter I: The Sound of Trouble"
Navaer Lalaith:
I am thankful for your review of "Treed and appreciate the resources you provided! I confess to barbarism in the naming of my Elf characters - they have all, without exception, been either Barrow-Downed, strung together to "sound Tolkien," or bestowed in outright mischief on my part. I come of an Orkish background but am gradually learning more respect for the Firstborn. In my less than stellar defense, most of these names are just placeholders and will be changed for more appropriate names in revision, though I am keeping the names for the three youngest Elves - Veisiliel, Eleluleniel and Nevhithien - out of unabashed fondness.
There is not and will not be any magic in "Treed" (I tend to think of Tolkien's
Middle-earth as being non-magical, even though of course there are examples of
what we would consider to be magic in the case of special individuals/events) so I was a little puzzled by your mention of magic until I saw your explanations about telepathy. I'm glad to have more information on this matter because, frankly, I'd been scouring for it! The most I was able to find in the absence of the elusive "Osanwe-kenta" was a credo about telepathy being strengthened by
affinity, urgency and/or authority, and being weakened by the hroa. Gleaning what I could from LOTR itself and making some personal embellishment, this story employs a "system" in which an Elf, on reaching majority, has achieved some reasonable mastery of the balance between hroa and the fea and has a capacity for telepathy, though not necessarily skill. It made sense to me that the affinity of married Elves, wedded in flesh and in spirit, would allow them greater ease of mental communication with one another and, by extension, provide some measure of practice for communicating with others. (Marriage being educational for two Elves in a variety of ways...)
DarkElfGurl:
Hi DarkElfGurl! I'm not sure how quickly I will be adding to this story. I have much of it written already but I find writing for Elves harder than writing for Orcs, and there are an AWFUL LOT of Elves in these first chapters. So I'll be doing a lot of backtracking and revising: it's gonna be touch and go for a while. (I'm also pretty busy in real life: work, and getting ready to apply to various graduate schools.)
Glad you like this first chapter of "Treed"! I will definitely be continuing it, as well as "Orc-brat."
Responses to reviews for "Chapter II: Seeing Red"
KariLeann:
Reading your review put me in such a great mood! I'm not the biggest stickler for canon either, but I've always been pretty flip about the names I assign my Elves and most of them were just serving as placeholders till I came up with something better. The new names put me in a much better mood and actually mean something in Sindarin. I didn't change the names of the three young sisters since I liked them to begin with, so Leni's tongue-tangle of a name remains intact, poor kid.
I'm glad you thought well of the ambush since I'm not always very confident when it comes to action scenes. There will be Orkish POV very shortly - two familiar faces will be making their appearance in this next chapter, as a matter of fact.
Please, a moment of silence...for Afrted...
BondageOrc:
Thanks for reviewing! You're enjoying an Elf fic? The wolves will be coming out of the walls next! I find writing Elves incredibly difficult compared to writing Orcs, but your review leaves me tremendously flattered.
I'm glad you like Leni's family. I like them too, as I insist on continually blathering in lj. Maybe it's my imagination but I fancy they've a kind of Little Women/Pride and Prejudice thing going on (both books that could have stood to benefit from including Orcs, as what works of literature wouldn't?) and I even enjoyed writing the boring married stuff between Thalawen and FÃÂrhador. I didn't think about the comb until after writing that scene. If you ask me, ivory is creepy anyway. Though I guess I'd be kind of honored if someone were to make a hair-care utensil out of my teeth. After I was suitably dead, of course.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter III: The Scent of Fear"
KariLeann:
Hmm, I tend to be very vague about practical details like age and physique but Kurbag and Mushog are actually about the same age, and that's - twenty? Twenty-one? Anxiety is lending Kurbag a rather juvenile effect: he's feeling out of place and uncertain of himself in this chapter and, despite his words to Nazluk, he isn't all that experienced yet. Orc-brat's taking place about three months later - he's seen more of the world at that point and is somewhat more sure of himself.
I worked on that song for ages! I pounded it out in one night, but it has undergone much revision since. I wrote it as a means of practicing my Sindarin for some dicy dialogue in an upcoming chapter. I was hoping after that I would be able to relax but unfortunately the stuff sticks - now I keep catching myself mentally translating stuff into Sindarin...Elvish isn't my bag....
Sharka:
[squirms happily] Don't be silly: it's great that you're busy RL, though of course I love your reviews!
That's interesting what you said about the ink and makes me sound more clever than I am, though it does serve some purpose in what's to come. Hmm, a latent metaphor. Your observation is striking and it lends Veisiliel's response - "what is done in love should be received in kind" - troubling implications. I'm also glad you like the image of Kurbag in the kitchen. I was staggered for some time as to how to portray his first sight of Leni: I always knew it would be outdoors but not that he would follow up with a home invasion. It's a level of violation that surprised me this early on.
Nazgirl:
Sorry for the delay of my response! Busy RL. Applying to grad schools - what a life - but I'm snowbound today and looking to accomplish some writing. Late to the party? You're one of the few who's found it! Pull up a seat! I'm glad you liked the line about the carpet, it amused me too. I can be a wretchedly slow writer and the night I wrote that paragraph it was the only thing I produced, but at least it sent me to bed happy. Such twerpy milestones in which to measure success....
Inga:
I really hope you see this response, because I haven't an e-mail address for you and I want to be sure you know how much I appreciated your review. I was thrilled to hear that you've been following OB as long as you have, and your comments were very heartening. I'm glad that you are now also reading "Treed." Both stories are rather weird content for ff.net and, taking that into consideration, I've been very happy with the response they've drawn - it has truly been more than I expected. The intelligence of the comments and suggestions people have made has been particularly gratifying, and I have made some wonderful friends in the course of writing. Hope to hear from you again but, if I don't, I am pleased to have such a lovely lurker. Thank you very much.
ChristineX:
I really appreciated your reviews for the first three chapters of "Treed" - they put me in a thoroughly good mood. You're quite right that there is a level of irony to the first chapter of "Treed." It is meant to seem like an opening to a very different kind of story from what is to come, and Chapter II is the decoy chapter meant to further that impression. Nevhithien was energizing and fun to write, but she is also a red herring of sorts - the prospective is-she-gonna-be-a-Sue protagonist journeying to Rivendell to meet Legolas and Gimli and ambushed by Orcs along the way. With all eyes on that fiasco, who is thinking about the two children, forgotten and safe at home...? I'm not sure it's entirely successful as a red herring, but it was interesting to write.
Thank you for remarking on the POV shifts. They made me hesitate to put Chapter II up for a long time. I too found them jarring but tried to justify that to myself on the grounds that it is a battle sequence and things are confusing anyway. Immitative fallacy: OB has made me more cavalier about using POV shifts in a single scene, but I still don't feel comfortable with them here. The stuff of future revision, I think.
As Sindarin tutors go, they don't get much better than Navaer Lalaith. I also needed an artist's perspective with this chapter: Miscreant K has been drawing my Orcs for me and she has a wonderful eye when it comes to all things visual. When I was puzzling over what Leni's home would look like I ran to her for help: "Quick, what kind of house would an Elf live in that isn't a tree?" Without hesitation: "Gothic revival." "Gothic...revival?" At which point she turned me onto all kinds of different images, and I was able to cull just the kind of building I wanted.
Kurbag *is* different from the other Orcs - kind of a jock-aesthete. He's unusually sensitive to beauty for an Orc but doesn't know how to simply admire from afar. It would be interesting to set Kurbag loose in an art gallery and see what happens. Where other Orcs would engage in cheerful vandalism he would touch and handle freely out of genuine appreciation...but the stuff would end up just as ruined. It's possible to sympathize with this, I think...but for all that he isn't actively malevolent the suffering he causes is just as real. Hopefully showing Leni in her natural milieu, contextualizing her as a daughter, older sister, little sister - a young girl of about 13 who likes calligraphy and sentimental poetry - makes her more real as a person and provides some contrast to show all that has been lost/changed by the time OB rolls around. At least, that's a chief intent.
Pen52:
Glad that I was able to in some way give you a new perspective on the Orcs. I'm also glad you still find them repugnant - I'd be worried if you didn't at least somewhat, since their behavior is reprehensible and not at all suited to the drawing-room. Still, I like to think that, yeah, they're more than merely cannon-fodder. That's one reason I love Tolkien's Orcs so much: they're more complicated than many readers, or even Tolkien himself, will give credit. Badguys are people too and all that. 8)
Responses to reviews for "Chapter IV: A Taste For Flesh"
Pen52:
In response to your review - yeah, update finally. And I've just about got Chapter V up now too, so I'm feeling pretty smug about myself. Although I'm still slower than most of the writers on this bloody site. [deflates a little] Ah well.
Funny you should say that about old Nazluk....
Nazgirl:
Dude, you flatter me immensely. And I like how both you and Pen52 have seized on Naz. I have so much fun writing him: it's all bile and spleen and neuroses. This next chapter should reveal further layers to the character, though I guess there's nothing that hasn't been implicit all along. But so far as the larger narrative arc, the "net of events" in both Orc-brat and Treed...some I've known from the get-go, some I am discovering as I go along. Working on Treed has been particularly exciting for me in this latter regard, giving me a better sense of why some things are the way they are in Orc-brat, and I'm hoping that this will help when I get back to that story.
ChristineX:
You guess right, and it is not pretty. Not pleasant story matter but I hope I handle it fairly well. I'm quite fond of Leni, you know, and I like to think this earlier stuff - well, I've probably already talked your ears off on this subject. I also hope that she will be able muster some of that courage again. She seems capable of doing so in the defense of others, less so in her own defense.
I appreciate your other remarks: honestly, it took me so long to crank out Chapter IV, partly because even I wasn't sure where Vei was! and by the time it was all over I could no longer tell what worked and what didn't. So hearing your commments on building tension and the fake-out with Veisiliel is a big relief.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter V: A World of Pain"
For those who wanted to know: this is what Leni cries out during the rape. I would have included it at the base of the chapter but felt it was too much - it's not really the sense of her words that is important but the anguish behind them, and I had an idea this would come across more clearly without translation. I kept one on hand anyway for anyone who wants to know and because hey, I really did put a lot of effort into getting it right.
"Baw! Nin naegra - nuitho, nuitho, nin naegrach! Nin dagich! Nuitho! Baw!"
No! He is hurting me - stop, stop, you are hurting me! You are killing me! Stop! No!
"A Elbereth, le nallon! Nin lasto, Fanuilos! Im harnnanen, firithon...firon - anno dulu enni...Baw! Baw!"
Oh Elbereth, I cry out to thee! Hear me, Everwhite! I am wounded, I will die...I am dying - give me support...No! No!
"Baw, naegra. Naegra. Naegra. Naneth, nin naegra. Firon - nin danc, Naneth. Adar, edraith enni! Adar, mas ce? Ada...ADA!"
No, it hurts. It hurts. It hurts. Mother, he is hurting me. I am dying - he has killed me, Mother. Father, save me! Father, where are you? Papa...PAPA!
"Avan�ron hen. Avan�ron firo. Avan�ron firo."
I do not want this. I do not want to die. I do not want to die.
ChristineX:
Thank you for your comments on the opening to this chapter. The effects of Leni's abduction on her family are complex and far-reaching and will be the subject of at least another chapter or two. I know that most people are reading for the Orcs rather than the Elves (me too!) so I'm hoping I don't lose too many readers - at the same time, I've become quite fond of Leni's family and I'm interested in exploring some of the repercussions.
I'm also glad you approve of Alhael's POV. I spent a lot of time editing and re-editing that scene. Originally his introduction and subsequent demise occurred at the end of Chapter IV, and it was much quicker: he paused briefly and Nazluk took him out without his ever knowing the Orc was behind him. I did this because it gave Nazluk an opportunity to look bad-ass and I really didn't like or desire to linger on Alhael. At the same time, a friend thought that this was anticlimactic and that it didn't given Nazluk much of a chance to demonstrate his fighting skills...and I thought it just a tad implausible for an Orc in steel-shod boots to sneak entirely unheard upon a skilled wood scout, particularly one with pointy Elf ears. Originally I gave Alhael no respect: he was the designated Orc fodder and that was all there was to it. Second revision I took my time with his POV, gave him the opportunity to fight back a little, and I think the writing is better as a result.
The answer to the enigma of Leni's survival is a complicated one and not entirely settled in my own mind, though I have a few very strong opinions.
Nazgirl:
I'm trying not to say anything definite about Orc-brat at this point save that I will definitely return to it. Someone asked me a while back if I was planning to do so after Treed. At the time I said I hoped to do so sooner but now I really do wonder if Treed isn't just something I'm going to need to get out of my system first before I can go back to OB. I will say that writing Treed is letting me find out some background information that will be important to the OB storyline, so working on the one is definitely helping with the other.
RE: Nazluk...good God but I love him.
This question of yours: "May her fear of dying actually rescue her from it?" People have wondered why Leni survives, and I think that this is a big part of the answer. Tolkien says of Elves who are raped that "one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos." Usually people interpret the rape of an Elf as an act of murder, forcing an Elven soul to depart its body. The Elves themselves would consider this to be the case since, hey, it's what all the raped Elves do. But reading between the lines, there appears to be a strong degree of willpower on the part of the victim: it is the victim who is rejecting bodily life, likely due to the Elven propensity to despair and a powerful Elven command of the body/spirit connection. We've all heard or read of rape victims wanting to die: for an Elf all it takes to accomplish death is to want it. So what if a raped Elf wants desperately not to die but to live?
I also tend to think that Leni's extreme youth plays into it - Elves are prone to despair but Leni is a child who is not yet jaded with the world and who clings to hope and is scared of the unknown. The thought that she is going to die is more appalling and more terrifying to her than the rape itself.
Pen52:
That's kind of you to say - I definitely try not to sugarcoat things or to in any way downplay honest cruelty and suffering in the story. At the same time I try to steer clear of wangst: wallowing in angst and misery. It's a little difficult sometimes due to the subject matter. Getting raped on a daily basis tends to be a bit of a downer. Then too, Leni is already that dangerous combination of sensitive teen Elf girl, and this plus genuine anguish can be a recipe for disaster. Case in point: her thoughts after the rape, when she is lying alone in the dark. I had to pare that down dramatically because the original version was so overwrought. I try to walk the line but it is hard - there's some bad stuff that's already happened, and there is more to come.
Ironically I find that Orcs help in this regard: they tend towards brutal exuberance rather than sensitive introspection and so they liven things up from a writing/reading point of view. The irony of course lies in the fact that they are the direct cause of Leni's suffering....
KariLeann:
Yeah, I think Nazluk would still dislike Elves but it definitely lends another layer of resentment. Hard to forget something like that, and you're quite right: there's a universality there that really transcends race - a traumatic experience serving as the personal genesis of hate/fear/bigotry. Anyway, I'm glad he was doing it for you in this chapter. I am terribly fond of Nazluk.
Folks seem to have responded positively to the way I handled the rape, by portraying it through a disinterested third party. That was something I thought about a long time in advance. Showing it through Leni's point of view would be simply too horrific, and Kurbag's perspective was straight out. But I couldn't just gloss or skip over the event because that would have been abandoning her, and I couldn't bear to do that. So using Nazluk's POV seemed the best solution. (This gave me, not incidentally, an opportunity to work a little more with Nazluk's character as well.) Of course once I decided this I realized I was going to have to learn some Sindarin, and that is when I started messing around with Elven poetry. "Navaer Amar Velui" was my practice for this chapter.
There should be more soon. The next chapter or two will be a little Elf-centric but I promise, the Orcs will be back. Thanks for your review for this chapter!
Kyn:
I promise you, I will be continuing Orc-brat! Treed seems to be something that I have to get out of my system in the meantime, but writing it is helping me work on both stories since some of what I'm learning through Treed is going to contribute to the OB storyline. As for OB, your review is very gratifying. I knew writing it that the content could be offensive/upsetting but didn't want to shy away from depicting those elements for, well, basically the reasons you give.
Most stories that present Orcs sympathetically downplay or eliminate their evil sides: their deeds are portrayed humorously or mildly, they are compelled to wickedness against their will, they are redeemed from their evil or they are simply misunderstood. There are many stories of this sort that I love, but I wanted to see what would happen if I wrote about Orcs who do horrible things, who quite enjoy doing horrible things, who are not likely change their murderous, rapacious habits any time soon - and give the perspective of their victims at the same time, so that we don't discount what happens to Maevyn and Leni but worry for and sympathize with them too. To see if it would make people's heads go 'splodey or if they would be able to "get behind" both sides. Your review makes me feel like I have been successful. I'm fond of all my characters and am glad that you have found the room to like them as well.
As for the rest of the lads - yay for individual Orcs with distinct personalities! I know that ten of them running around the place can be a little confusing, but I hope to give them each some time in the spotlight.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter VI: Rituals Of The Body"
DarkElfGurl:
I put up Chapter Seven as soon as I could. It's definitely good to be writing again.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter VII: What The Heart Knows"
God of Static:
New reader! Thank you for your review, and I'm glad you're liking it so far. If you're looking for something to read in the meantime, I do have another story called Orc-brat that features some of the same characters. I started writing it first but chronologically it comes after this one, so it does technically contain spoilers...
Nazgirl:
It was so good to hear from you! I know it was a long time between updates. I miss the boys too. They'll be showing up - in fact, I already have some of those parts written. Going to be more Elves in the meantime, though, at least for this upcoming chapter. As for Orc-brat, Maevyn will definitely be running around again at some point - she's still a very active character. I wish I could blow off the rest of my life and just write write write, but with grad school and work now it's just not possible...and I seem to write more when I'm busy anyway, so I guess it's just as well.
KariLeanne:
I'm glad that you're reading again, and I'm sorry about the long wait before. I feel pretty confident in saying that you won't have to wait too long on Chapter 19. I already have a lot of it written. There won't be any chapter hostages, I was definitely joking about that. I'm as impatient to update as it gets! I have to force myself to clean things up a little before I post them, but otherwise they go up as soon as they're finished.
I've been trying to write Treed as if there is a real possibility that Leni is dead (though I know that doesn't work on the people who already know Orc-brat), and focusing on her family this way has helped me formulate some important plot points. Rest assured that I will be returning to Leni, though, and if you liked Dushgar I think you won't be entirely unhappy about that either. I wrote him to be a basically throw-away character but I had fun writing him, and I'm glad you liked him as well.
Gonna be very happy when I get back to Nazluk and his many neuroses. He is my special boy and I love him.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter VIII: Coming In Two"
God of Static:
Thanks for reviewing Chapter VIII: I was glad to hear from someone, especially since I know it wasn't the liveliest of chapters. Well, Chapter IX is up now. I hope it gives you what you're looking for... P)
Responses to reviews for "Chapter IX: The Morning After"
Nazgirl:
Why do I suspect that you aren’t entirely sincere in your sympathy for Nazluk? [grins] Kurbag’s actually going to be talking more in the next chapter, though he should still be in character. He’s been kind of the strong silent type up till now—out of his depth and uncertain — but I’m looking to reconcile him with the more talkative half-Uruk from Orc-brat.
ReviewsGalore:
Thanks for your review! I like your review style and the way you've broken down the different components. I also appreciate your criticisms. I have a definite tendency toward purple prose: I'm glad you commented on that and the pacing as well, and that you were still able to read and enjoy the story. Thoughtful reviews like this mean a lot to me.
By the way, I looked at your "9 Plus Crowd" C2 and you have some really interesting stories there. I may end up subscribing!
God of Static:
Thanks for another review - I'm glad you liked this chapter. I was happy to get back to the three of them as well! The next chapter should be ready soon, like in the next day or so: I'm just finishing it up. As to whether something good will happen to Leni...well...
Responses to reviews for "Chapter X: More Than Rations"
My apologies to those who reviewed this chapter: I'm afraid that I was very bad about e-mail during much of 2007 and am not sure who I did or didn't respond to. If you're reading this and you didn't get a response, please poke me.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter XI: Strange Overtures"
Nazgirl:
Happy New Year! I hope it's going well for you thus far. 8) And I'm glad you liked this latest chapter. I'll be putting up Chapter XII soon: it's been finished for a few days now but I was just editing it and trying to get a little ahead on Chapter XIII in the meantime.
ChristineX:
Typically delayed response on my part: thanks for the review! I like Kurbag - then again I'm also fond of Grushak and Mushog, so that doesn't say much for me. But really, Kurbag places the gratification of his own urges over other considerations. If it weren't for that and his casual attitude toward killing, he'd probably be a fairly regular bloke. The next chapter will be coming soon. I wish I was as prolific a writer as you are: you seem to be writing something all the time. It takes me a long time to get anything done.
Responses to reviews for "Chapter XII: Social Graces"
God of Static:
Glad you liked the chapter. The ending will be what it's going to be, I guess. I do know what happens, it's just taking me a while to get there. Of course, "Treed" doesn't resolve the fate of Leni and Kurbag. It will be ending soon and their story, such as it is, continues in "Orc-brat" some months later.
Nazgirl:
"It's very good how you're describing... things one does even though it's pointless. Like Leni begging the other Orcs to help her when she's being raped. It's of course totally irrational. But it's what anyone would do." --> [nods] That part made me a bit sick. She was desperate and she didn't have any recourse. The only witnesses are either enemies or indifferent.
Re: Orkish interplay, yes! And further interaction coming up. Kurbag and Nazluk missed them and I guess you and I did too. Hope you will like the next chapter. Give me suggestions on the ending when I put it up, I'm not entirely sure I like how it ends, if it should have something more after it or not...
ChristineX:
"And here I thought Kurbag was going to behave himself..." - I think I'd half persuaded myself of this one. Re: the dream sequence, that actually wasn't something I knew I was going to write until I wrote it. Those creepy Elf swords...[shudders] I imagine those are the kinds of scary stories Orcs tell around the campfire. Anyway, new chapter coming...now, hence my *finally* responding to your review. Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate them. 8)
Responses to reviews for "Chapter XIII: Elven Grace"
Nazgirl:
Thanks! You were my one review this time (I think others were annoyed that I hadn't updated OB again.) I've uploaded Chapter 14, which shows Nazluk continuing to stir up trouble. Matters will be escalating in the next chapter.