Hello, Rosa_McGee [ logout ] profile | register | faq | search | forum home (Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ) << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> Marilyn Manson BBS > Marilyn Manson > To all the openminded I say welcome. The great theology thread has returned! Author Message Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 devilmunchkin... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Because i don't think there is eternal happiness forever. And even if there was....i'd never get it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ IF you could get it, wouldn't you be happier? - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200105:25 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ isn't that redendant?? lol THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200105:27 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, you said that you couldn't get it even if it was an option. I'm saying if you could, you wouldn't take it. I want to know why. I find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't want eternal happiness. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200105:32 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if i could yes i would. but since i don't believe i can..... THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200105:38 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hello Everyone ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Devilmunchkin...I didn't see the dreams thread Mike Sorrow...I agree with you Rictus...Thanks for the encouragement buddy. I agree. Devilmunchkin gives me entirely too hard of a time I also think Shokan will benefit from answering his questions himself, but if Catholicgirl wants to do it. That's great! Catholicgirl, I answered number 3 already, so maybe this will save you the work: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For instance, I'll take questions #3 which is, "3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until there were so few that the government could simply take their land; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the reforms of the seventeenth century." Ravi Zacharias says that you should not measure the truth of a belief system by the level of its abuse. Asking me to justify this is like saying, "If you are an atheist, justify the acts of Stalin, the killings in Cambodia, persecution of Christians in Russia and China, the consistent acts of violence by atheists throughout the history of time." or "If you are a Slayer fan, justify the actions of the group of boys who are on trial for killing a group of teenage girls because they wanted to be like Slayer and whose parents are currently suing the band." Clearly the acts of these people are not representative of all of atheism or the musical artists. I'd love to see a question like, "If you are a Christian, justify the acts of Mother Teresa, the great deal of missionary work that is going on abroad with programs like World Vision and Compassion International who give food to the poor, the fact that the founders of the USA established a constitution based on the theological assumptions of the Bible which our nation chooses to reject and etc." The question is are the actions of these individuals indicative of the belief system they professed? Obviously not. For Jesus Himself said, "27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31 "And just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way. 32 "And if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 "And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same amount. 35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men." The same is true of the issue of discrimination in America. Keep in mind that just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they really are one. A lot of people say they are Manson fans but they are really just posers. As Jesus said,"16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Feel free to critique or change my answer. I just want to save you some work. 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 01-23-200105:40 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Devilmunchkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I see it now. Thanks 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 01-23-200105:45 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 Devilmunchkin... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if i could yes i would. but since i don't believe i can..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That's my point. Atheism offers no hope for the future. Christianity does. That's why atheists are more prone to depression. I'm saying that because hope and depression are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, atheism, which offers no hope, goes hand and hand with depression. If not when thinking about the present, then when thinking about the future. Don't you get a little depressed when you think that once you die, that's it. I know I do. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200105:52 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ no. i told you i don't want to live forever silly!!!! we're going in circles. free grace: i never got your email. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200105:56 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Argh! But you do! You just said it! quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if i could yes i would. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That means you want to. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200105:59 PM catholicgirl Junior Member 24 Posts Member since: 01-19-2001 Question 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I like your answer. I'd only add that where there are Xtians, there will be hypocrisy, mistakes, and stupidity. If I'm guilty of such in my daily life than it's fair to assume that others screw up as well. Did Pope Pius XII make anti-semetic comments? Yes. Did he want Jews to be slaughtered in the death camps? No. Could he have gone further to stop with destruction? Probably. Do I make stupid comments about groups of people that I don't really know and understand? Sometimes, yes. Does that mean that what I say is accurate? Of course not. Respectfully, Amanda catholicsinner@hotmail.com posted 01-23-200106:06 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ no it doesn't!! you were saying that as in a hypothetical situation! I answered it from that point of view. i DON"T want it and don't believe in it. do u? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200106:11 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't believe in it. I do want it. If you COULD do something and you WOULD do it, doesn't that mean you want to? Or am I just completely confused? - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200106:16 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ yes . u are. i was saying that if i thought for a second that heaven. god. the whole shabang existed that i would want it. but since i don' think it does, i don't want it. i can't want something that i don't believe in/ brilliant quote: "I can't believe in the things that don't believe in me" THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200106:23 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ok. Because you don't believe in it, doesn't that make you more depressed? Knowing that there is no hope? - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200106:25 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hope for what??!!!! eternal happiness. i'm sorry, but running around praising someone else all day is also something i'm not fond of. i have amjor authority problems. In my day to day life, this hope is not an issue for me. I don't think about it....it's the way things are. I accept them. i LIKE them. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200106:32 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, hope for eternal happiness. I'm not saying that you are walking around depressed all day. I'm just saying that when you think about the future, it surely must bother you to know that your time is extremely limited. It bothers me. Oh well, I have to go now. I'll talk to you later. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-23-200106:37 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ no..it doesn't.......i told you...i want it limited..makes this time more precious..less taken advantage of THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-23-200106:43 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 catholicgirl and devilmunchkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The email just went through devilmunchkin. Hotmail was on a temporary blink Catholicgirl...Great point. Yes, all Christians are humans and we do make mistakes (sometimes very big ones). I do all the time. That is why I believe in salvation by grace (as you apparently do) because none of us deserve to get in. Hopefully we can make a greater difference by what we do. My main point was you can't judge Jesus' teachings by the dumb mistakes of his followers and hypocrites and people that really don't follow him at all. Bravo, thanks for the great addition. We make a good team. It's good to have someone else around here (although Mike Sorrow I definitely agree with your points with Devilmunchkin). I think she is the exception among atheists and not the rule. Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 01-23-200106:47 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 This is great ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rosa wrote a great poem that I thought some of you might like to see. Here's a link to it: http://marilynmansonbbs.artistdirect.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=10019&f=854194987&m=204191359 Good night. I'm off to bed...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 01-23-200106:51 PM catholicgirl Junior Member 24 Posts Member since: 01-19-2001 Question 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? No. Jews were expected to obey the ten commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) and to observe the laws and rules established in the Hebrew scriptures (many of which are still observed by Orthodox Jews today). David says in Psalm 7:8, "The Lord shall judge the people; judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me." Clearly, God judged both the wicked and the righteous then just as He does today. The only difference is that Christians are not required to obey the dietary (hygiene, social, et al.) laws of the old covenant today. Respectfully, Amanda SmithÇ posted 01-24-200104:17 PM All times are PST . << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> | Page:Next Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 |
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