Hello, Rosa_McGee [ logout ] profile | register | faq | search | forum home (Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ) << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> Marilyn Manson BBS > Marilyn Manson > To all the openminded I say welcome. The great theology thread has returned! Author Message Rosa_McGee Member 841 Posts Member since: 08-16-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @ freegrace... here's the 2nd part... i still have only read through part of this all, so i adress the question as you put it & hope i misunderstood none of those in question.... even if they claim laws arn't a standard of morality for them, does this make it really true ? i don't conciously consult the lawbook before i act either, but a good part of the laws just conform to what we've been brought up to think as right or wrong, because, in any normal situation, they mirror what a society believes to be right and wrong..... as such they again influence the society that produced them, it's kind of circular... but because of this mutual influence they are subject to society's changing views too.... or, to put it in a different way, maybe we are not so much influenced in our decisions by the laws themselves, but by a society's common understanding of moral codes that is written down in it's lawbooks.... it's natural, though that not all people agree with all laws... i wrote in another post some days ago... each society in fact has to consist of some part conformity, some part revolution, because each society always chages, has to change... the longer you emphasise only the conformity / uphold the status quo and supress the revolution, the more violent it will be when it finally breaks out.... it would be perfect if people rationally saw necessary changes and acted accordingly, but they don't... so we need both the revolutionaries as a driving force and the 'conformists' for keeping things going & stable.... the important thing is keeping the balance between the two forces... and that's it really... everything human is subject to change, and we take part in working this change... so disagreement is not only natural, but necessary... on the abortion and homosexuality issues.... *sigh* i don't really want to discuss that from any religious perspective (in fact i don't want to discuss this at all, because people tend to scream at each other...), so i won't bother to get up any arguments from this side.... homosexuality.... i refuse to be convinved that love can be wrong... love is love, no matter the gender abortion... freegrace, i'm not sure if you've read my posts on that other thread... i've never had a abortion, so it's not a personal issue, maybe i should say that first... this said, i'm not too happy about it, but i suspect no woman who has had one is, however nolochantly some might talk about it.... i can't believe that decision is ever an easy one and it should be respected and not some extra guilt be laid on the woman.... anyway, in this case we have to consider human realities and being pro-choice i'm chosing what i think to be the lesser of two not-totally-right things... unwanted children are not happy... forcing a woman to bear a child in circumstances in which she consideres she cannot raise it brings nothing but pain for all involved.... the same people that fight against abortion are those that put a taboo on sex and fight against contraception, too, thereby causing many unwanted pregnancies in the first place... they have no right to condemm, i think... forbidding it doesn't make abortion disappear, because there will be always women desperate enough... so just more women will be killed by unsanitary circumstances... you might take the position that that's a just punishment, but that's one i refuse to take.... so all things considered i think the solution we have here (i don't know about the US) - free abortion within the first 3 months (the time determined on medical grounds, considering the development of the foetus), in germany e.g. linked to the obligation to get some consultation, is not such a bad one... the number of abortions has been going down, not up since this law has been passed, in fact.... the best prevention should be to educate people, talk to children about sex & contraception, and make contraception better available and cheaper..... again *sigh* i think we shouldn't be discussing this here.... longer than i intended again... anyway, i must be off to bed, have to go to the hopital and get my bandages changed in the morning... [This message was edited by Rosa_McGee on 02-08-2001 at 03:58 PM.] posted 02-08-200103:51 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ see..i knew this was coming..once abortion comes...every topic that stings humanity and causes divisions comes up. lol. i have to say I'm pro choice within reason. I mysel f do not know if i could ever go through withit, but i believe in having the choice. I'm all for homosexuality. LIke Rosa said...love is love. Pure, unadulterated, uncorrupted....pure as any. I believe homosexuals can't help how they are just as we can't help be how we are. It's innate, though obviously not genetic (fairly sure). @Rictus: whose side am i on? lol...on the side of truth. I believe in making my point with truth, not using falsities to back up what i believe. I..have to do it the right way...though often times it be the more difficult way (Like Frost's The Road not Taken). @freegrace: thank you so much for your considerate thoughts!!!!! I actually made it out with only a few emotional scratches. Well, it's not over until after my chem test...but i'm too apathetic now to care. I ended up getting a 94 on my speech!!! I was so excited seeing as how that was causing me the greatest amount of stress. Still haven't gotten the chem exam back. I went for room reservation for a private room today....the ran out long befor ethey got to me..now i'm #114 onthe individual day on Monday. Ick...yet another extra i have to make time for. By dearest friend currectly might need a few of yours prayers. his loved one ..passed on. I'm taking a trip to hell in english. lol. We're studying dante...I've only read it three or four times lollll. i sat in class and pretty much taught it to them. lol. In Italy the children must memorize it. SOme more ethics questions for you to ponder!!!!: 1) If two of your best friend's were married and you found that one was cheating on the other, would you let the cat out of the bag or keep out of it? 2) If one of your coworkers or peers was cheating off of you while the teacher stepped out of the room , would you rat him/her out? (look at consequences..some profs will fail you both no matter what if they find out). 3) You have a family to support. If some big issue came along, perhaps passed by the government, would you rebel, refuse to follow at the risk of losing your family, job, etc? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 02-08-200108:48 PM AARON Member 1992 Posts Member since: 04-29-2000 i just ------------------------------------------------------------------------ hate seeing this thread i dont want to talk about it either posted 02-08-200108:52 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ why do u hate it? i mean, people are actually USING their brain cells here for a change compared to the empty mindedness of other posts. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 02-08-200108:56 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ All hail the mighty thread! - Mike Sorrow - posted 02-08-200109:03 PM AARON Member 1992 Posts Member since: 04-29-2000 pretentious washing of hogs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I havent read enough of what's here, but for you to say that this thread is somehow considered 'a thinking thread' is a slush brain joke. I dont want to spend all my time reading over some kids philosophy all the while just wanting to say " your rhetoric is terrible " . I just hate the way Rictus thinks and talks, so thats why I hate it right now. Maybe some other time. Ill let you know. posted 02-08-200109:11 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ that you thinbk that a whole thread is bad because of the way you DISAGREE with one person is a joke and speaks badly of your degree of intellect. sorry to say..but it gives a terrible impression of yourself. Truthfully, most of us one this thread arn't kids, we're adults. I find Rictus rather intelligent. And at least he thinks. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 02-08-200109:13 PM AARON Member 1992 Posts Member since: 04-29-2000 great judgement on bad logic ------------------------------------------------------------------------ keep it up. just please no more Robert Frost qoutes. posted 02-08-200109:16 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ why? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 02-08-200109:19 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This coming from someone whose greatest theological discussion comes from posting alchemy website links. Keep it up. - Mike Sorrow - posted 02-08-200109:20 PM Webster Member 181 Posts Member since: 02-07-2001 I had this posted as a thread, but All i got was moronic responses .. so im putting it here... rip me to shreds with your intellect if you want to... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I guess I have no real reason for writing this.... My name is webster as you all know. I am half black/ half white. Recently I have been getting a bunch of hell for using the word nigger from family members, and aslo caught hell because a friend of mine called me a nigger, and I didn't care. I guess I should also state that I never had my father, or knew anyone on his side of the family (the side that was black). So, in laments terms, "I'm just as white as you.." if you see what I'm saying. I say I don't care because I know my friend wasn't aiming pure hatred at me. Am I wrong in letting him refer to me as a nigger, alabaman porch monkey (amongst others), and wrong because I think that this is funny as hell? Personally I feel that when it comes to people with my skin color, there are three different types. Theres me, where I view my self as an individual, not black, not white, and not even human (The not human part stemming from my belief in the existence of other life besides that of our planet). Theres the typical black person, who often accuses "whitie" for bringing him down, and keeping him in the gutter. ANd then there is the "nigger" the lowest form of black life there is (the reason that blacks are the most rascist nation on earth, because even they hate niggers). Now, I often notice that black people and niggers often run around spouting things such as,"What up my nigga?" or stuff like that. I think there is nothing wrong with this, and people (who werent black or a nigger) have always said this was wrong, because they werent allowed to say it. Personally I feel, and I've never met ANYONE who thinks this way besides me, that the word "Nigger" isn't the problem. It's when someone uses it with the intent to cast hate. (That reason is the only reason I would ever not laugh and get mad the person who said it.) As I began my ascent into myself, I soon developed this reasoning. (so much that when someone calls me a "nigger" i can easily shrug it off, and say soemthing like, "Hell yeah, born nigger and proud of it..") But my "white" parents, (even though I view myself as an individual I do not view anyone in my family a true individual because it is naturally in thier mindset to be white) often get mad at me for cracking "nigger" jokes, or allowing my friends to use the word. Personally I feel that when we eventually do reach the pinnacle point of space travel (star trek like if you will), that most humans will destroy themselves with this mindset. The mindset that says, I am white, black, yellow, brown, purple... whatever. Even those who say they have put rascism completely behind them, or the ones who have never really felt any hatred towards someone of a different skin color, can not truly say that they are an "Idividual" that isn't white, black, etc. (Does anyone catch me on this?) I personally feel that yes, My skin color may be a light tan, but I am an "individual" that is who I am, and I'm not black (You must certainly agree that I cant get through life without being labeled black for my race). This is my thought on it, and I was wondering if anyone who wasn't "black" wouldn't mind sharing thier view on it. And if anyone that is "black" would like to comment, please feel free. I just want to hear some not so judgemental opinions. Anyone care to express themselves? A reply I gave to the only intelligent person to respond: But of what really? I mean, since they aren't "black" who are they to be embarresed? I mean if your not "black" the word could never be used towards you, and you've certainly never had it used towards you. But I do understand that they get a bit embarresed not because it was used around them, but that the person who it was used at usually gets offended. Which stems back to my whole theory of how if you were a true inividual you would't be offended by this. Am I right? I guess my allowance of my friends to use the word, my enjoyment of using it freely towards myself around other people, and my parents and other people being offended by me using it would be the reason I do it. If everyone would stop to think how silly it is for a "black" person to use the word towards themself, they might laugh a bit. And then they might also realize my whole point, it's JUST SILLY! Maybe even then they would realize the true deepness of it's sillieness, and even my whole point. Which is everyone stopped getting hung up on words, and were themselves, not thier "white" selves, but the person they are that just happenes to be whatever color they are. I do it only because I want people to realize, that thier skin color is not thier skin color, but merely an extension of thier uniqueness "If Jesus died for our sins, lets at least give him his moneys worth.... " -Me "I am the bullet in the gun, I am the truth from which you run" - NIN posted 02-08-200109:47 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Welcome Webster, Aaron and Hello to Everyone ------------------------------------------------------------------------ First Rosa...Please know that my desire is never to put guilt or condemnation on anyone but to let them know they are loved. In the same sentence that I would say that something is wrong, I would also say that forgiveness is available. Like you, I tend to shy away from the abortion topic...NOT because I do not believe what I think but because it causes so much anger and division. On a woman's right to choose. I certainly can understand that it must be difficult for them to make that decision. Since I am a man I freely admit that I cannot understand. For me the issue is whether it is actually a life. If the baby was one year old and it was unwanted would it be just to kill it? If one accepts the notion that life begins at conception it is no longer a choice but a murder. I also believe that one should take responsibility for their decisions. On the issue of homosexuality, the last thing I want to do is start another argument so I'll just keep my mouth shut. You know where I stand on that. Now, for something that I really want to talk about. I agree with your analysis of Trent Reznor. I saw NIN in concert on Haloween night several years ago when the Hurt CD came out. I guess if I had to describe him in one word it would be raw. He just has an aura about him that he is really expressing who he is and I love that about him. He also seems to do a good job of sharing his weaknesses and pains in a way that is easily relatable. By the way I loved your point about society's need for conformists and revolutionaries. Very insightful. Plastic Jesus...I will answer the most pressing question now and then respond to the posts on homosexuality and abortion. On the issue of the Bible...there is no doubt it can be abused and hard to interpret. However, I can say the same about Brian Warner's music. He is more misunderstood than anyone I've ever seen. On the surface, a group (especially Christians) can take the words to mean one thing when the author intended for them to mean something else. For instance, the first time I heard Lamb of God, I thought it was one of the most hopeless songs I ever heard. That was until Rictus explained to me what it really meant and now it is one of my favorite Brian Warner songs. However, does the misconceptions of Brian Warners art make the information in his music any less valid or contradictory? The same can be said of society's laws. I cannot speak for where you live (if I remember correctly you're from Finland right?), but each year people debate over our smaller document, the Constitution, and what it means. Even the final arbiter of those laws, the Supreme Court, are often at odds over what the founders of those laws should think. That was most apparent in the recent decision handed down in the US Presidential election. Should we as the United States, throw out the Constitution altogether because it is too difficult to interpret? Hardley. Devilmunchkin...I'm so glad things went well. I will certainly pray about your chem test and your friend. BIG YES, I would tell my best friend that his love was cheating on him. The test would be harder to do as well as the work situation. Since I am a pastor, I would probably try to convince them to tell the person themselves. Webster...We had a great discussion about the word nigger on the Tupac thread. Here is a link to the entire thread. You might find it interesting: http://marilynmansonbbs.artistdirect.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=10019&f=854194987&m=700199764&p=1 I really appreciate your unique perspective. Welcome to our thread. Aaron...Sorry to hear your distaste for our thread, but I love what Rictus has to say. Rictus...Hello buddy! Check your email. I passed on a hello to ya! Mike Sorrow...Good as always to see you. Good night all my loved ones. It is almost 1AM and I am tired...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 02-08-200110:39 PM Webster Member 181 Posts Member since: 02-07-2001 Thanks for that link to another thread ------------------------------------------------------------------------ And thanks for welcoming me to the "theology" thread... maybe I will get into a discussion when I care to read some of the previous stuff.. Or maybe I'll just wait for someone to post something new for me to jump into.... hope to spend some good quality moments of actual "thought" with all of you... "If Jesus died for our sins, lets at least give him his moneys worth.... " -Me "I am the bullet in the gun, I am the truth from which you run" - NIN posted 02-09-200106:18 AM Rictus Member 3203 Posts Member since: 06-05-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Webster: I'm very glad you found your way here. As you know, I was impressed as hell by your open letter to Manson, and I only wish I'd opened my BBS 'career' with something that impressive and intelligent. I want to respond to your posting regarding race and the word 'nigger' in depth at some point. I have... I think as a white guy I recognise the discomfort expressed by some of your relatives, and hopefully I'll be able to put it in words for you at some point fairly soon (not now, though, I have obligations). I echo freegrace's welcome. If you do decide to read through the whole thread... goood luck! But welcome aboard regardless. Me. "All the drugs in this world Won't save her from herself..." *^*Co-founder and proud member of the blackjack appreciation society. She's tiny but she rules.*^* "Kill The Cheese!!!" - Eliza (who I love) "No one is a nigger" - Order in an Artificial Chaos posted 02-09-200106:52 AM ADOLF GANDHI Member 976 Posts Member since: 01-30-2001 WEBSTER ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT. I HAVE ALWAYS WORKED WITH THE PUBLIC IN "THE REAL WORLD" IF YOU WILL ALLOW ME TO CALL IT. I'M IN SALES. WHEN I WAS GROWING UP I WENT TO A MOSTLY ALL WHITE SCHOOL. I WAS AN EXCELLENT BASKETBALL PLAYER AND EVEN A BETTER BASEBALL PLAYER. I HAD SCOUTS FROM BOTH SPORTS SHOWING INTEREST IN ME. THERE WERE A FEW BLACKS THAT HAD TO TRANSFER TO MY SCHOOL. BUSSING ........IF YOU REMEMBER THE TERM. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO HELP PREVENT SEPERATION OF RACES IN SCHOOLS. I WAS THE FIRST PERSON (NOT A LIE) TO GREET THESE STUDENTS AND WELCOME THEM TO OUR SCHOOL. NOT BECAUSE I HAD TO. BECAUSE I WANTED TO. BECAUSE I HAD TO MOVE ABOUT EVERY 3 YEARS (FATHER WAS TRANSFERED A LOT) AND GO TO DIFFERENT SCHOOLS. I UNDERSTOOD THE STRESS AND PARANOIA OF GOING INTO NEW SUROUNDINGS. I COULD ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THESE BLACK KIDS FELT LIKE!!!!!! IT MUST HAVE BEEN SCARY AS HELL !!!!!!! I MADE THEM FEEL WELCOME. I INVITED THEM TO DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES INCLUDING SPORTS AND INTRODUCED THEM TO MY FRIENDS. I WAS A PRETTY UNIQUE IN HIGH SCHOOL. I WAS A BIG TIME JOCK AND A REDNECK!!!! OR AS THEY CALLED IT BACK THEN A HEAD OR FREAK. I WAS GOOD IN SPORTS AND SMOKED POT AND DID SOME COKE EVERY NOW AND THEN. I HAD THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. HEH.SO TO SPEAK. I STILL WORK WITH,AM FRIENDS WITH,HAVE REPEAT CUSTOMERS THAT LOVE ME OF THE BLACK OR TAN OR WHATEVER COLOR!! I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS I PLAY GOLF WITH. OK..... NOW!!! TO THE POINT. I AM NOT A RACIST IN THE REAL WORLD.(ONLY ON THIS SITE) ON THIS SITE...................... I MAKE RACIAL JOKES. I USE RACIAL STEREO TYPING. I HAVE USED THE WORD NIGGER AND OTHERS. I HAVE PISSED PEOPLE OFF BIG TIME!!!! I LAUGH ABOUT IT. PEOPLE THINK I'M A REAL ADOLF. I'M LAUGHING RIGHT NOW. I SOUND SO SERIOUS AND MEANINGFUL ON THE NET BUT I'M REALING LAUGHING SO HARD SOME TIMES TEARS FORM IN MY EYES. I KNOW I SHOULDN'T . BUT IT'S FUN FOR ME. MAYBE I WILL OUTGROW IT. FINAL STATEMENT: IF SOMEONE WERE TO ASK ME ....... WHAT 2 WORDS THAT FIRST COME TO MIND ARE THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL ????????????????????????? I WOULD HAVE TO SAY........1. JESUS 2. NIGGER YES!!! I THINK TOO MUCH EMOTION AND CHAOS IS CAUSED BY 2 SIMPLE WORDS. THAT'S MY HONEST OPINION. I USE THEM OFTEN ON THIS SITE FOR EMOTIONAL REACTION PURPOSES. ADOLF----THE ONE YOU LOVE TO HATE.............. GANDHI-----------THE ONE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AND IS RARELY SEEN ON THIS MISERABLE COMBATANT SITE! posted 02-09-200106:56 AM Sweede Member 763 Posts Member since: 11-29-2000 Mmmmmmm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *thinks* -welcome to the machine...we were born to rage against it- posted 02-09-200106:57 AM Sweede Member 763 Posts Member since: 11-29-2000 Mmmmmmm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *thinks again* -welcome to the machine...we were born to rage against it- posted 02-09-200106:58 AM ADOLF GANDHI Member 976 Posts Member since: 01-30-2001 AARON : ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GO SURF PORNO !!! IT PROBABLY HAS MORE MEANING FOR YOU THAN THIS THREAD. ADOLF----THE ONE YOU LOVE TO HATE.............. GANDHI-----------THE ONE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AND IS RARELY SEEN ON THIS MISERABLE COMBATANT SITE! posted 02-09-200106:58 AM Sweede Member 763 Posts Member since: 11-29-2000 Mmmmmmm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *continues to think again* -welcome to the machine...we were born to rage against it- posted 02-09-200106:58 AM Sweede Member 763 Posts Member since: 11-29-2000 Mmmm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ oh damn..it's gone. -welcome to the machine...we were born to rage against it- posted 02-09-200106:59 AM All times are PST . << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> | Page:Next Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 |
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