| Hello, Rosa_McGee [ logout ] profile | register | faq | search | forum home (Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ) << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> Marilyn Manson BBS > Marilyn Manson > To all the openminded I say welcome. The great theology thread has returned! Author Message COLD HEART Member 356 Posts Member since: 08-04-2000 theology and no fact ------------------------------------------------------------------------ makes for good masturbation. posted 01-16-200104:14 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Devilmunchkin, you said: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ genesis isn't so specific that evolution could not be inferred from it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I disagree. The Adam and Eve story is one of creationism. There is no way to draw evolution from that. Eve came from the rib of Adam. I believe in evolutionary theory, but do not believe that it can exist without contradicting the Book of Genesis. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-16-200104:21 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ever think that ADam and Eve never existed? Perhaps they are metaphors for 2 species...one springing up from the other. THe species are cast out of Eden......hence they begin to migrate. BUt also....it talks about how god spoke this or that into creation....steps like that..he may have taken time and used a different method. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-16-200104:25 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So, are you saying that Adam and Eve are written metaphorically to mean two different species? There is no evidence that the Bible is written metaphorically. Actually, it is considered the word of God. Why then would God speak in metaphors? The idea that the Bible is written in metaphors is pure speculation. It also seems to me that you are using the Bible to argue against the words of the Bible, itself. That in itself is a paradoxical fallacy. It'd be like saying "I know God doesn't exist because he told me so." - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-16-200104:36 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Freegrace wanted me to post this here, in the case that someone wanted to read it. The Evolution of my Beliefs - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-16-200104:55 PM AndrogynGod Member 576 Posts Member since: 01-09-2001 I don't want to interfere ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have been following this thread when I had the time for it, I didn't have much time, and I still don't. But I would like to make a comment on this last little discussion about Adam and Eve, Evolution theory, Genesis,.. It is indeed true that the Bible is the word of God, but to go as far and say that this Word of God is contradictive would be overdoing it. I once heard an interesting interpretation of this, it sounds simple but it has some sort of truth, it went something like this : God spoke his word, this was written down by the evangelists. It was their duty to spread this word to the people, people could not interpret God's word the way He meant them to be. They come to simple humans, with no idea of who God is exactly, they have no idea of the later development of christianity, so you might be able to say they could not understand Gods Word. So the evangelists used metaphors and stories, the way Jesus did when he tried to explain things to the people or even to his apostels. You can see the Genesis is this way too, it is a story of the birth and evolution of mankind, told in a novel-style, to make people understand. Hope this makes sense to anyone Music is your only friend... Untill the end. posted 01-16-200105:14 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think i've misclarified my point. Froma Christian perspective there are two ways to read the bible: literally and metaphorically. I was presenting one of the ways to interpret Adam and Eve. this is information given to me by my religion prof. I myself don't believe in any of it..i think the stories are legends..perhaps made up....at least in the old testament. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-16-200105:31 PM COLD HEART Member 356 Posts Member since: 08-04-2000 i thought you were an atheist ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ or do you just say that to fit in and run faulty logic experiments. save up all your energy and say God LIKE you mean it. when you're bored....burn some books and recommend the bible. Ã? posted 01-16-200105:31 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ read above ignoramus: or should i say cold heart? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-16-200105:31 PM AndrogynGod Member 576 Posts Member since: 01-09-2001 Coldheart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if you were talking to me, yes I am an atheist, but I have read the bible, and I still read in it sometimes. It's one of the most important works in human history. I also said to you on your (stupid) thread that you can never be sure of your own beliefs/religion. I believe not in a higher being, but that's doesn't mean I am radically against the idea of it. Music is your only friend... Untill the end. posted 01-16-200105:34 PM Rosa_McGee Member 841 Posts Member since: 08-16-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ again, it comes down to this - you believe the god of the bible is truth, i don't... no way around this... * i don't know if there is an author of univeral truth... i think there is a possibility (probability?) of a force behind the initial creation of the universe & the physical laws ruling it... though that's very much a simplification, because we're speaking of dimensions we don't really comprehend, i think, but it's something i don't want to exclude. i very much doubt, however, that this force is in any way involved with the creation of humanity, much less with the acts of a single person, or with their reward / punishment - i don't think that any religion offers more than a glimpse at such a force... but again, i'm repeating myself, i think i posted that before... * i'm willing to accept almost every system of morals, if it works out in a bearable fashion for the majority of the people concerned - i'm very sceptical about forcible imposing our western system on the whole world - more often than not good things are destroyed rather than bad things improved - if there are good points they will be accapted sooner or later... each society develops a moral code, with or without religion (though religion is often used to give it better legitimation & more power) - this just seems to be a law - probably humans, as aristotle said, are political animals, they tend to live together in communities and each society is (conciously or unconciously) aware of the fact that anarchy threatens it's very existence - they develop laws that guarantee it's continuation. there's nothing absolute in that (laws and customs widly differ, as you pointed out, though for practical reasons they share some common traits, too - no random killings, respecting another's possesions & family...) & i don't think man has any absolute sense of what's right or wrong, either (at least that's nothing that can ever be proven conclusively)- he's just trained to follow the moral codes of the society he grows up in... i don't know if we can ever define right or wrong objectivly - other than the law of gravity, or any physical law it's something that exists only within the framework of the human mind, human society... we can define it according out laws, or more absolutly, according to the declaration of human rights - we can define it for the moment, or for the future as far as we can see it, but it will always be open to change, hopefully improvement .. i try to develop my system of 'morals' within the frame of the society i live in, i'm not prepared to accept any code of law blindly... jurisdiction has chaged and changes, it has to adapt, and what is jurisdiction, if not moral codes... it's not the fear of god, or punishment that keeps me from anything, it's probably a mixture of education & insight.... i try to consider what my actions will do to myself & others... i try to see every human being & their daily fight to get through life as special, even if i don't always manage that... i think many people who don't believe in god are guided by such motivations and not worse than just as many who profess to believe but bend the rules, or just go to confession & can be sure to be ultimatly forgiven - those who don't believe don't have this escape - if i hurt someone i have to deal with this, ask forgivness, or live with the pain in myself, the knowledge of pain in the other person - no one can absolve me... * existentialism - i think it is very much influenced by what happend during worldwars 1 & 2, even more by what happened during fasicm... people lost faith in god, but also in humanity, hence the emphasis on personal freedom and responsability, but also the very bleak outlook - satre's 'L'enfer c'est les autres' (hell is other people) it doesn't mean that loss of faith led to dispair, but that a certain extreme & reveiling situation led to general loss of faith, or hope..... * on the evolution issue.. i'm no biologist, but i think darwinism is at least readily proved by the existant species (darwin got his theories from living animals & the way they changed when cut off from another population, not fossiles)... , and isn't there evidence even in animals still living, so called 'living fossiles', like the ginko tree, the nautilus, the coelacanth, the lungfish... they seem to prove that theory, or at least make it very probable ?!... and the human foetus in it's development runs through all the stages of evolution.... i think here the darwinists have ockham's razor on their side... i don't think the concept of creation of the universe, or even of this world by god (although it's a concept i don't necessarily follow) need be at odds with evolution - why couldn't have 'god' simply set the process in motion, letting it unfold according to his laws, but in absolute freedom otherwise ?! - it's even in genesis, i think - life starts in the oceans.... i'm not a mathematician, either, but the universe supposedly is infinite, or at least so large it doesn't make much difference - how to calculate probabilities here ?! posted 01-16-200105:35 PM Rosa_McGee Member 841 Posts Member since: 08-16-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @ freegrace... the mysterious name change atossa was after the 6th century b.c achaemenid queen, wife of kyros and dareios, chosen of course because of the subject of my ph.d. & because it was short & not too obvious - i didn't want a nin-related name on the manson board, not very original.... rosa mcgee... that's a bit of a story, if you're interested.... it's after the same named character in clive barker's 'sacrament' (btw, that's a novel you might want to read, too, maybe.... ) i read most of stephen king's novels as a teenager, but there was a moment when i discovered that while he's brilliant at creating horror, his novels are very sterile in every other respect, they in a way shut the mind, not open it... the same with lovecraft, whom i read later... horror didn't really interest me after that... anyway, though i blush to admit it, when trent reznor mentioned clive barker in that chat some time ago, i decided i'd at least look into a novel of his & got 'sacrament'... what fascinated me in this & in his other works (i've read sacrament, weaveworld, half of imajica & some short stories by now, it's not that easy getting the english originals & the translations suck...) is the underlying human warmth, the postitive vision, as well as the message you find expressed rather strongly in several novels, that much of the pain you cause yourself and others comes from lack of self knowledge, but that you can come to know yourself, find peace... 'Rosa McGee' is one of the characters where this is shown... it's a slight joke, too, because 'Rosa' created, not knowing who, or what she is, assumes a human existence & the name of 'Rosa McGee' posted 01-16-200105:42 PM Belial1977 Member 101 Posts Member since: 01-13-2001 this is refreshing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm glad to see some people in here who aren't wasting space by saying "limp Bizkit rocks" or some bullshit about ICP. The intelligence is welcomed in this forum. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1459911&a=10974269&p=38140902 posted 01-16-200106:05 PM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ AndrogynGod, your above point about the metaphors does make sense. Thanks for the input. I guess it could be viewed literally or metaphorically. I know Freegrace takes it literally, though. Devilmunchkin, I'm sorry. I thought you were arguing for the metaphorical translation. I wish Freegrace was back, so he could discuss my previous posts about the Matrix, evolution, et. al. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-16-200106:28 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ well...i COULD do more with the matrix..but since that post was deliriusly long and detailed other philosophers, like Descartes and perhaps Nietzche i decided against it. but..what would you liek to discuss about it? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-16-200109:07 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Dear Mike Sorrow and everyone else ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let me begin by saying how impressed I am by what you all are saying. I have readily stated time and time again that many of you are exceptionally more intelligent than I am as is apparent by the construction of your thoughtful comments. While I can't address everything in here, I'll give you some thoughts. 1. On evolution, I will need to do some research but the information on transitory fossils is not coming from Christian scientists but non-Christian evolutionary biologists. I am not saying this because I doubt you all but for my own information, do you have documentation on the notion of transitory fossils? Most of the information I have read states that one true example has yet to be found. As another point, why do we still not see apes turning into humans today? From what I understand the process is supposed to take a long time, but it seems that once a new species is created it stops. Most humans can trace their roots pretty far, I would think that while we can't trace the original apes we supposedly came from, that new mutations would still be producing humans. Believing in something that is a practical numerical impossibility (incidentally the numbers I quoted were discussing the likelihood of that happening anywhere in the universe) does require a great deal of faith. Also, how do you address the issue of the artist and the fingerprint? I realize that this is more of a qualitative rather than a quantitative answer but I'd appreciate seeing your feedback. In response to Devilmunchkin's point, I am willing to leave room for God being able to use evolution (if you are only looking at Genesis 1) but I agree with Mike Sorrow that Genesis 2 says that man came from the dust and not an ape. Also, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion of survival of the fittest, especially when misapplied to social contexts. Whether science or religion requires more faith is a point of opinion I suppose. By the way Mike Sorrow, thanks for posting the evolution of your views. I think everyone will benefit greatly from reading it. 2. As for the Matrix, I was stating it as a point of illustration although I agree with Devilmunchkin that the views vary. I was offering a metaphorical interpretation...he..he. The people who were under the control of the Matrix, was it because they were bad people or because they didn't know any better? That was the point I was driving at with the issue of Christianity. Mike Sorrow, to speak to your point of sin, if a boat were sinking and a lifeboat came to offer a life preserver and the person drowning did not take it, whose fault would it be? The person doing the saving or the one drowning? In the same way, the way of salvation is available to all irrespective of how many sins they've committed, but people often rely on their own strength or dismiss the message altogether. Regarding the prisoners, in some sense we are all beyond salvation but no one is. None of us deserve it but God offers it to all. Yes, I do read the bible literally except for where I believe that it was intentionally metaphorical. As an example, I will quote Matthew 13:31-33, "He presented another parable to them, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; 32 and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches." 33 He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three pecks of meal, until it was all leavened." 3. As for the life of an atheist, I am 100% in agreement with you. In my conversations with Order in Artificial Chaos I've realized how challenging of a lifestyle that must be to only believe in this short time span. I would not underestimate it for a second. I certainly would not want to live that way again, but at the same time Christianity is not peachy either. Christians are often considered to be intolerant, mislead,unintelligent jerks and I have experienced more rejection since becoming a Christian than prior to my conversion in 1995. This should never be a reason for believing anything, but I would much prefer to be wrong about Christianity than wrong about atheism. 4. To speak to Rosa_Mcgee, of course I'm interested in the long story (actually I didn't think it was long at all compared to my responses) about how your name developed. I want to say to you publicly that I am sorry if I ever did anything on the previous thread to make you feel like your ideas were not appreciated. I am not sorry for what I said but mainly the way I said them. Your thoughts are always welcome here. 5. Devilmunchkin, regarding existentialism I was actually talking more about how most existentialists lives ended. I wasn't saying so much about what they wrote about but the biographical events in their lives. They were not pretty. I hope this clarifies my thoughts. I am excited to see all the wonderful interaction on this thread. Just to let you know, I am often at work in the day and the filtering software at work prevents me from accessing the BBS. I also study quite a bit for school so sometimes I may go several days without responding. However all of your thoughts are always welcome...freegrace God is crazy about you. If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it. If He had a wallet, your photo would be in it. He sends you flowers every spring. He sends you a sunrise every morning. Whenever you want to talk, He listens. He can live anywhere in the universe, yet He chooses your heart. Face it, friend-He is crazy about you! posted 01-16-200109:09 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ evolution: it IS happening now. Tho i will say that evolution doesn't happen over a day..a week..a month or even a year. Evolution occurs over many generations. Even a mutated gene takes one generation to appear...and then several for it to become established and then an evolutionized species. we don't see apes turning into humans because evolution takes time. you don't live long enough for that to happen. it's not a poof thing. but i jsut said that. Also, perhaps the environment is not threatening the apes. I never said we come from apes..in fact we do not come from apes but rather we are part of the same web and just the only one left living. Evolution will not occur unless there is need. Mutation yes, but unless that mutation helps that organism survive better than those who did not mutate (and this usually happens one organsim at a time..hence why is takes so forking long), it will not mate and thus pass on it's genes. thus..no evolution. But even now..man is going through the motions of evolution...even as of a few hundred years ago, human my height were common. Henry the 6th was 6 feet tall..a giant for that time.....now it's common and even in Biblical times. If goliath existed he was probably 6 feet 5 inches to 7 feet...which seems giant to all of the 4 foot 5 to 5 foot jews. Yes, we've found and dated skeletons. errr..not we..but scientists have. ACk..freegrace...you started spouting NT!! no fair!! i didn't use any OT! *kidding. As far as Chrisitian lives..i HAVE heard that the more pious one is, the more tortured they are my temptations. But, in reference to this, i say that most people are not terribly pious to that point. And also, most of them do give in and try to keep it in their closet or that nice, convienient thing called a confessional (Baptists actually need not apply). Methodists think that all is forgiven...and..well..and you KNOW this..many baptists..the stricter ones think you'r egoing to hell no matter what. (joke to lighten the mood...made my rel class laugh when i would refer to myself as "the one in the corner who is goign to hell."). i just have to say, i've experienced more rejection since then..and most of this board knows how..but in addition to that...i bet if i was christian i'd get treated differently here.... THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 01-16-200109:45 PM Rosa_McGee Member 841 Posts Member since: 08-16-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *just looks in on her way out* freegrace, stop apologizing, if there's any need, you're forgiven, but really there isn't... i'm to blame, too.... sometimes our ideas are just very much apart & there arn't really any christians in my circle of friends, so this kind of discussion was new for me too..... so much i remember from biology classes at school.... we can't watch evolution in the creation of new species because it works slower, but we observe it in smaller things, adaption within a single species.... the expamle our biology professor gave us is that of a butterfly, i don't know the english name, that, for whatever reasons, used to sit on birch trees... originally this species was predominantly white, like the colour of the bark... when the bark of most trees was discolourd through pollution in the industrial age the white butterflies suddenly were more visible to the birds & got picked off, while the darker ones, until then more likely to be seen and killed and therefore existing only in a small number, survived... so the species, at least in industrial areas became predominatly black... however, with the improvement of the quality of the air, recently they have changed back, more are white again, now.... a biologist could probably give more exapmles.... that's the principle of evolution.. evolution is not about conciously adapting to a new situation, it's about one kind of accidental genetical variation surviving and producing descendants because in a specific changing situation they, again not conciously, but totally accidently, are better adapted... i would never apply this to the human sphere, as indeed it was never meant to be applied to it, because what happens in human societies is not evolution, but nature is dispassionate.... it happens, wether we like it, or not... most genetic mutations are just being ignored, because they either have no bearing on the species, or lead to it's being killed earlier... i think the prove is not so much in fossiles, which are a very accidnetal thing, after all, but in our genes... how would you explain the fact that the genetic code of men and chimapnzees is 98.something, or so % idenical, if not by common ancestors ? @ devilmunchkin hm, i think you said that already... btw, what do you study ? posted 01-17-200112:20 AM Rosa_McGee Member 841 Posts Member since: 08-16-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ thought from under the shower.... it's easier to prove with bacteria, or insects, because they procreate a lot faster... they tend to become resistent against certain medicines, or insecticides, because those few that are resistant procreate at an enormous speed, while those who are not, get killed.. that's what made it so difficult to fight HIV, e.g, it just kept mutating, evolving...... in most cases species die out before they have the chance to adapt, simply because they don't produce enough offspring fast enough, here it's the other way round... [This message was edited by Rosa_McGee on 01-17-2001 at 01:18 AM.] posted 01-17-200112:57 AM Mike Sorrow Member 2179 Posts Member since: 10-08-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Freegrace, I hope you can reply soon, but if not, have a nice vacation from the BBS. ON EVOLUTION You asked, "why do we still not see apes turning into humans today?" I'm in agreement with devilmunchkin on this one. You can't really "see" evolution. You can only observe it. Allow me to explain. If you see something, you can visually watch it happening. Evolution takes too long to process. I believe, I may be mistaken because this figure is from my memory, that it was somewhere around 10,000 years just to transition from Neanderthal to human. That's not even taking into account the other evolutions that led the ape to Neanderthal. If you want specific examples, the famed Velociraptor was a dinosaur with the hip bone of a bird. Archaeoptrix (sp?) was a feathered reptile thought to be a missing link between dinosaurs and birds. Mesonychid is the large wolf-like animal that started showing signs of a return to the sea about 50 million years ago. The fact it is a mammal and has an extremely similar tooth structure to the whale also helped scientists to discover this evolutionary link. These fossils are absolutely documented as real, and any person, Christian or not, that would deny their validity has no scientific merit on the subject. I disagree with Rosa McGee here because she said that current events are just as important as fossils which are more accidental. I feel fossils, while formed with no real purpose, provide the necessary link and evidence towards the past. Although, I do agree that some insects' resistance to certain pesticides is a testiment to evolution. You mentioned about how species seem to disappear. This is because evolution is just that, evolution. Things evolve to fit a current situation out of necessity. When a Neanderthal needed to be smarter to survive, it evolved a larger brain. The weak "disappear" in what is called natural selection, or survival of the fittest. You mentioned you do not believe in survival of the fittest. Why not (and I'm talking about evolution not social context)? As far as the fingerprint, I cannot answer that. I do not believe, however, that everything necessarily has a purpose. I do have a little bit of hair on my knuckles, but that really doesn't do much for me. It's just there. The case may be the same for fingerprints. ON CHRISTIAN LIFE I also agree that it is difficult to be a Christian because of ignorants like some people on this BBS. Although, I do think for the point of the "Matrix argument", the life of an atheist portrays Neo and Morpheus more appropriately because they aren't accepting the idea that all is well. "All is well" is more of an "accept Christ and be free" point than it is a "don't believe and be depressed" point. ON HELL You asked: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if a boat were sinking and a lifeboat came to offer a life preserver and the person drowning did not take it, whose fault would it be? The person doing the saving or the one drowning? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is a loaded question, and I'll tell you why. First off, if the man was drowning, he would clearly know it. Only a small child would be devoid of the knowledge to grab onto the life preserver. Disbelievers do not "know" they are drowning. This puts them into a category of ignorance, under the assumption that Christianity is the truth. This does NOT put them into a category of reluctance. A more appropriate analogy would be the following: A man is standing in a pool of water. Another man floats over in the boat and tosses him a life preserver. The man in the boat tells the standing man to limit his actions by wearing the life preserver because the pool of water actually gets much deeper at a later time. The man in the boat offers no evidence with the exception of a book. In that situation, the man is unaware of the consequences of not wearing the life preserver and would become hampered by it in the shallow pool of life... er, water. IN CONCLUSION I leave you with a scientific quote. "Science cannot prove anything, but it can disprove everything." This means that no matter how much science tries, it will never be a flawless institution. This is because we are only humans that use 8% of our brains. We continue to discover new things, and science aids us in that. However, while science is the cornerstone to discovery, it also relies on rejecting many conventional beliefs. One of which is religion. The choice is a difficult one. Just remember, that at one time the world was flat. It was science, not religion, that proved otherwise. - Mike Sorrow - posted 01-17-200102:16 PM All times are PST . << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> | Page:Next Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 |
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