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Hello, Rosa_McGee [ logout ] profile | register | faq | search | forum home (Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ) << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> Marilyn Manson BBS > Marilyn Manson > To all the openminded I say welcome. The great theology thread has returned! Author Message Rictus Member 3203 Posts Member since: 06-05-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @freegrace quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Interestingly enough, the begats are actually the Old Testament lineage that validate that Jesus is the Messiah. He was said to be a descendent of David and Abraham which were both prerequisites. That is why they are in there... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I hate to say this freegrace, but I don't think it does. The lineage is for Joseph, and Joseph had nothing to do with Jesus's conception. Jesus was born to a virgin, so to trace Joseph's line in such a way is meaningless. I have a question for you all. Were do you draw the line of tollerance? This occurs to me as today I saw a sign for a christian group in my place of work, and instead of snearing just nodded and passed it. I realised my discutions here had led me to be a far more tollerant person, especially in regard to religion. So I wondered what it would take now to bring out my combative side again, cause me to fight against an ideology, and I wondered as to your thoughts. Oh, and freegrace: Judge not lest ye also be judged. Given this, and the death penalty(thou shalt not kill) can any member of the US judiciary continue to be a Judge in good concience, and are they being bad christians for doing so? And if not, why not? Anouther connundrumm that occured to me . But I'd love to hear your opinion. I believe in re-incarnation, but either there is no 'All', or I don't want a part of it. This planet could be heaven, and I'm happy to keep comeing back here 'till we learn to aceept that and build it, or until we die trying. @devilmunchkin:snarl!!! Me. Please take a moment to post your Manson story on this thread . Thank you. Random Quote club 2001 - member No. 1 "All the drugs in this world Won't save her from herself..." *^*Co-founder and proud member of the blackjack appreciation society. She's tiny but she rules.*^* "Kill The Cheese!!!" posted 03-09-200110:53 AM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hello to Everyone ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hoodwink...I would actually return the question you asked to Stitches to you. If you had read the New Testament you would have realized what it says about the law. Sativa...How's it going buddy? Long time no talk! Are you staying away from the minithins? I actually do love being here. You have a great sig. Have a wonderful day! Stitches...Yes, I believe that man has an eternal soul. Ultimately I believe that man will go to heaven or hell. I will post a quote as to why I believe that and what it is on another post. Rictus...Actually there are two accounts of Jesus' lineage. One of them is for Joseph and the other is for Mary so my original statement was correct. Many people who describe alleged contradictions in the Bible often point to the discrepancies between the two (although both came from Abraham and David) without realizing that one was for Mary. On your other question...Prior to the Old Testament Law, the Lord set forth His statement on the death penalty in Genesis 9:6, "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man." This did actually give judges the right to impose the death penalty, which I am in support of. People often point to the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" out of context and fail to realize that it was speaking of unjust murder without a judge/priest. Right after that the bible lists several penalties that were punishable by law. On the issue of tolerance, I believe that is where we get back to the inclusive love but exclusive truth. I am called to love and tolerate any person, irrespective of their race, religion, beliefs, etc. In fact, I am called to go a step further and love them. What I cannot tolerate is sin and falsehood. This does not mean that I kill people because that would ultimately hurt the person. What it does mean however is I state the truth when necessary. As for judging, to quote the entire verse: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It is basically talking about judging another unjustly, especially more strictly than yourself. Unjust judging occurs when we are willing to hold others to a higher standard then we are willing to hold ourselves. Once we have dealt with our own faults (verse 5), then we are in a better place to help others with theirs. Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-09-200101:30 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 @Stitches (Please ignore if you're reading this for the 10th time) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @Stitches...In response to your question, I do believe that by God's grace and through no works of my own, I am going to heaven as a result of my faith in Jesus Christ. The following post summarizes my views on heaven, hell, etc. Most of the people have seen it on here several times but if I tried to answer the question again I'd probably have to come up with the same thing and it saves time to post the quote. I hope this helps...Freegrace quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Atossa and Rictus...I really appreciate the interaction you provided. I often am at work or studying so I apologize if I am not around much to interact with you. The best I can describe my beliefs is by pointing to the movie the Matrix. It is one of my favorite movies. This world has been greatly deceived by an evil force that has bound them in a dreamworld. I like when Morpheus says, "I know exactly what you mean. You look like a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that is not far from the truth. The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth that you are a slave Neo. Like everyone else you were born into a prison that you cannot smell or taster or touchâ¤|A prison for your mind." Sin enslaves us and is a continuous addiction. It has damaged the way life is supposed to be. In contrast to Rictus, I believe that man is naturally evil. Just drive down the freeway in Los Angeles, Chicago or New York during rushhour and it will become readily apparent by how often you get cut off, flipped off, etc. Atossa, the atrocities in Nazi Germany, Ruwanda, Bosnia, etc are an illustration of that fact. I do not believe that the good guy always wins out on earth. Sin in my opinion is anything we do that displeases God. We can sin in our words, thoughts, actions, in what we do or what we fail to do. As you can see the average person sins hundreds of times a day. How often do we fail to help someone in need, or have an impure action or hurt people. Even if someone only sinned 3 times a day, that would still be a thousand sins in a year and in an average lifetime that would be 74,000 sins. I can't imagine a traffic judge letting off someone with 74,000 traffic tickets, because they didn't mean to do it. Even if he did, that would mean that he was an unjust judge. Because I believe that man is naturally evil, I do not believe that anyone deserves to go to heaven. Romans 3:23-24 says, "23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus." I believe that heaven is a free gift. The Bible says that heaven is a place where we worship God for eternity. Eternal church does not sound like a great place to many people. However, the way I picture it is imagine one of the greatest moments you ever had that you never wanted to leave (e.g. your first kiss, your best day, when you were in an amazing place in nature). I believe that the God that created those moments is even more amazing than the moments and as we experience him fully we will enjoy those moments and Him for eternity. However, compulsive worship is no fun for anyone, so even heaven would be hell for someone who really didn't believe in God or appreciate the gift of His son. Hell is a place where good is not present. Those who have rejected God and dreamed of a world without Him will get exactly what they asked for. Romans 1:18-25, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." If you've seen "Life is Beautiful" it appears that even in the death camps there was goodness and light. In hell there is only darkness. Like living in the Matrix, I believe that hell is a choice. I believe that hell was not a place that was created for man, but the devil and his demons. However, men have chosen that they would prefer to worship there so God will not stop them from making that decision. I do not believe hell is eternal because God is not merciful, but because man is eternally unrepentant. If we could not believe in Him on earth where there is so much evidence of His love even though the world is marred by sin, why would anyone believe in Him if they are in a world with no truth but only lies? Some people ask, "Why would God send a good person to hell?" In and of themselves, I do not believe that anyone is good and we send ourselves to hell. Thus far the message may sound pretty hopeless, but actually there is quite a bit of hope. Let's return to the traffic judge. If I had seventy four thousand traffic tickets, the judge could not declare me not guilty or that would violate His justice. A violation of the law, whether someone is sorry or not or made ammends, is not an excuse to be declared not guilty in any court. However, what if the judge declared us guilty and paid the fines for us? That would be a truly merciful act, yet it would preserve the judges' justice. I hear of a lot of people who speak of the love of God but few who speak of His justice. The only time they speak of His justice is when they're talking about someone else. If there is no punishment for sins, than why don't we treat everyone like crud? Everyone believes that people like Hitler should not go to heaven, but they neglect to acknolwedge the evil that is in the heart of every man. The Bible says, in Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." In giving of His Son, God paid the debt that we could no longer pay. Our only job is to accept the gift he offerred. What if someone offerred to pay your debt of 1 trillion dollars, but you turned it down, because you'd prefer to pay in monthly installments of $2? That would be insane, just as it is not just to believe that our good acts can make up for our sins against God and others. How is the gift received? I believe it is by faith. Eph 2:8 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Faith is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not on our own works. I often hear how could a loving God do X, but we are the ones who mistreated Him and only He can determine what will allow Him to maintain His mercy and justice. The rescuers of the Titanic are not criticized for the number of people that died at sea, but the number of people who lived as a result of their saving act. As far as other religions, I believe there are only two: Christianity and Manianity. All other religions teach that we get to heaven by our own good deeds. Christianity is the only religion that teaches that we get to heaven by the generosity of God. The area of Religion is the only study in which people believe sincerity is a symbol of truth. No matter how sincere someone is about a scientific hypothesis, it must be true to be valid. Atossa, yes it is awfully painful to believe in a system that my parents do not believe in and could have eternal consequences for them. Truth hurts and Christianity has often been more painful than my time as a skeptic. However, as you said pain is not a reason to deny truth. Like the Matrix, I have decided to swallow the red pill. I do not choose to see this world in which people are enslaved by their addictions through rosie colored glasses. Rather than being part of the problem, I desire to be part of the solution. If I choose to reject God for the sake of my parents, than neither of our eternal destinies are secure. If I choose to accept Him, God will empower me to be a witness to them. The power of Christ is not that He takes the pain away, but He gives us hope in the midst of it. Pyne offers a great point at how Christ⤙s life sufferings can give hope, "It is true that Jesus knew His sufferings would be temporary and that He would soon be restored to glory. However, it is not true that our own sufferings are utterly pointless and absurd. A high view of the providence of God affirms that all things ultimately have purpose, even evil acts which appear to be completely senseless. Jesus⤙ sufferings serve as a model for us, not simply because He experienced pain, but because He experienced hope in the midst of pain." This is a truly powerful statement. It points to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith as a person who not only understands our pain, but also can provide the truth that provides hope in the midst of it. Rictus, let's get back to your question that I promised to answer. The Bible says that Jesus did not come to the world to condemn you but to save you. John 3:16-19 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. I can not say definitively you are going to hell. Jonah 1 says, "And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown! 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them...8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? 10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." It appears that in the story of Jonah, the prophet was given a message of certainty but His mercy spared Ninevah judgment. I hope that hell is not real and all will be in heaven. However, I cannot live on a hope that I do not see in God's word. Therefore, I choose to live by what I believe God to say now rather than speaking for God because I may not like everything He says. For people who already believe they are going to heaven, this message may not seem very hopeful. However, I minister to gang members and prisoners who have already committed many crimes that they would consider would disqualify them from heaven. I now see why Jesus spent His time with the tax collector and prostitutes, because they didn't consider themselves to be righteous. They gladly accepted the fact that God would grant them eternal life by faith and He could change them into the person they always dreamed of being. I know that my life was not worth of eternal life, so one night I prayed to accept Christ's offering on my behalf, I asked for His forgiveness, and I turned from my sins to live for Him. Once again, without absolute certainty because God may be willing to give others a chance after they die, I would say that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will not go to heaven. If that includes you, I can only answer from what I know but I cannot judge. My hope and prayer is that you will choose not to reject the offer Christ gives you and for this reason I do as John did, "13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." Before you is a red and a blue pill. I can not choose for you. The choice is yours. We must all choose whether we accept life in the Matrix of sin's deception or we choose truth and freedom. I hope I have not hurt your feelings. I realize these thoughts will not be popular here, but I feel like I would be dishonest by not answering your questions. Sorry for the long post...freegrace ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-09-200101:36 PM Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Heaven.... is a place... where nothing.... nothing ever happens...." ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-09-200103:08 PM Rictus Member 3203 Posts Member since: 06-05-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @freegrace. quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Prior to the Old Testament Law, the Lord set forth His statement on the death penalty in Genesis 9:6, "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man." This did actually give judges the right to impose the death penalty, which I am in support of. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I thought the old testiment law was superceeded by the testiment of christ. Given that, how can it be said to apply? Are you sure your not twisting the message of God to suit your own convictions? 'Thou shalt not kill' sounds pretty definitive to me. quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It is basically talking about judging another unjustly, especially more strictly than yourself. Unjust judging occurs when we are willing to hold others to a higher standard then we are willing to hold ourselves. Once we have dealt with our own faults (verse 5), then we are in a better place to help others with theirs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sin in my opinion is anything we do that displeases God. We can sin in our words, thoughts, actions, in what we do or what we fail to do. As you can see the average person sins hundreds of times a day. How often do we fail to help someone in need, or have an impure action or hurt people. Even if someone only sinned 3 times a day, that would still be a thousand sins in a year and in an average lifetime that would be 74,000 sins. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ According to your interpretation of Gods word, we can never attain perfection, we will always fall short and sin. Given that, surely none of us is capable of judgeing anouther, as the 'log' of sin and imperfection rests in all our eyes, and we can never think purely or objectively. In fact, surely this means only God can judge us. Given that we are all sinners and therefore all hippocrites, there is no way we can, under the teaching of Jesus, judge anouther. Anouther key word in your statement is 'help'. How does ending someones life help them? What possible good can come from such an act? And is it worth the blood of a single innocent person? Bare in mind, miscarrage of justice does happen, to some degree or anouther. There are cases in this country, prior to our abandonment of the death penalty, were it has been proven that people were wrongly executed. I'm sure there must have been similar cases in the states. If you then support the death penalty, you have innocent blood on your hands. How can you reconcile that with your christianity? As for the priests who were authorised by God to pass the death penalty in Exedous and Leviticus, They were all decendants of a particular tribe of Israel. Are you saying that only those decendants have the power to despence Gods justice? If not, how can you take one part of the OT but not the other? What did Jesus have to say in support of the death penalty? None of this is an attack, I'm sure you know that by now, but I am frankly incredulous of anyone who can clain to be both christian and a supporter of the death penalty. Me. Please take a moment to post your Manson story on this thread . Thank you. Random Quote club 2001 - member No. 1 "All the drugs in this world Won't save her from herself..." *^*Co-founder and proud member of the blackjack appreciation society. She's tiny but she rules.*^* "Kill The Cheese!!!" posted 03-09-200104:16 PM Hoodwink Junior Member 10 Posts Member since: 03-06-2001 Freegrace ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I would actually return the question you asked to Stitches to you. If you had read the New Testament you would have realized what it says about the law. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've read the bible thoroughly countless times. Apparently(not surprisingly), you missed my point. I'm sorry if you're "faith" denies you the faculties to recognize the Bible as being fraught with contradictions and anachronisms, much like your arguments. I've noticed that every single time someone produces evidence contradicting any Biblic writing as source material you repeat the same bill of goods time and time again. There's little to no point in arguing anything with you since you refuse to listen, are intent on proselytizing, and can't admit fallacy. These are all big no-no's when it comes to discourse...just thought you should know. I'm sorry that you've wasted your time trying to explain what is inherently incomprehensible. My deepest sympathies go out to you for believing you have to validate your faith through circuitous logic and specious data. May god forgive you. hoodwink p.s. I've been following these threads from day one, so please don't attempt to use my lack of posts in your defense. "Some are more equal than others." [This message was edited by Hoodwink on 03-09-2001 at 04:45 PM.] posted 03-09-200104:37 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hoodwink and Rictus ------------------------------------------------------------------------ My time is short. I will provide a limited reply. Rictus...I should have clarified by statements. The Old Testament levitical law is mainly discussed in Exodus, Deuteronomy and Numbers. Genesis 9 predated the law of Moses because there still was no Israelite nation. The intended purpose of the law was the covenant by which the promises of Abraham (land, seed and blessing) would be administered. I am only stating that God never forbids the death penalty. In fact, the vast majority of statements in the bible favor it. As far as judging goes, the Bible does not say one has to be sinless to judge. It only is basically saying to practice what we preach. If I were to criticize you for doing something I myself am doing what right do I have to criticize? Ultimately, God will judge everyone. There is no doubt about that. However, the same God who judges set up a judicial system in the Old and New Testament by which people would be allowed to administer His justice. Hoodwink...I wish you the best. Frankly, I don't see how you could have read the New Testament and not realized that the Old Testament Levitical law does not apply today. The reason that I post the same things over and over again is I am often asked the same questions. If you read this thread as closely as you did the Bible, I am not surprised if you would have missed the issue of the law was already brought up once. I still have yet to see you take responsibility for the fact that you basically plagiarized someone else's ideas (talk about evading issues). My only point about the law was that you seemed to suggest that your quoting the Levitical law was something I would advocate as an argument against homosexuality when I never said anything of the like. In essence, you were putting words in my mouth. I have contributed a great deal of time to this thread and if my answers don't satisfy you that is fine. It doesn't bother me and my prayer is that God has and will forgive me for my past, present and future sins. I will be out of town until Tuesday night on a camping trip. Have a great weekend! Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow [This message was edited by freegrace on 03-09-2001 at 06:17 PM.] posted 03-09-200105:41 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ freegrace!!! can u come on msn? THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 03-09-200105:52 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hoodwink ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As much as I can, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I'm not trying to be mean, argumentative or vindictive. I just can't see how you can be saying the things that you say. The law is used 234 times in the New Testament with very little positive to say about its application in the New Testament. I would encourage you to look in the New Testament and see where it is actually stated to be the standard for the New Testament church. The closest I can recall is Matthew 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them. 18 I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 "But I warn you-- unless you obey God better than the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees do, you can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven at all! 21 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Do not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment." This basically saying that Jesus was coming to fulfill the law. Thus, the purpose of the law was accomplished. Romans 10:4 says, "4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." As a brief survey, I would invite you to take a look at these verses in Galatians (I had considered posting all references to the law but chose not to because the post would be too long): quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Galatians 2:16 And yet we Jewish Christians know that we become right with God, not by doing what the law commands, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ-- and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law." NLT Galatians 2:19 For when I tried to keep the law, I realized I could never earn God's approval. So I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ. NLT Galatians 2:21 I am not one of those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die. NLT Galatians 3:2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. NLT Galatians 3:5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law of Moses? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ. NLT Galatians 3:10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all these commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." NLT Galatians 3:11 Consequently, it is clear that no one can ever be right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life." NLT Galatians 3:12 How different from this way of faith is the way of law, which says, "If you wish to find life by obeying the law, you must obey all of its commands." NLT Galatians 3:13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." NLT Galatians 3:17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. NLT Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance could be received only by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God's promise. But God gave it to Abraham as a promise. NLT Galatians 3:19 Well then, why was the law given? It was given to show people how guilty they are. But this system of law was to last only until the coming of the child to whom God's promise was made. And there is this further difference. God gave his laws to angels to give to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. NLT Galatians 3:21 Well then, is there a conflict between God's law and God's promises? Absolutely not! If the law could have given us new life, we could have been made right with God by obeying it. NLT Galatians 3:23 Until faith in Christ was shown to us as the way of becoming right with God, we were guarded by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could put our faith in the coming Savior. NLT Galatians 3:24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian and teacher to lead us until Christ came. So now, through faith in Christ, we are made right with God. NLT Galatians 4:4 But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. NLT Galatians 4:5 God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children. NLT Galatians 4:21 Listen to me, you who want to live under the law. Do you know what the law really says? NLT Galatians 5:3 I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey all of the regulations in the whole law of Moses. NLT Galatians 5:4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace. NLT Galatians 5:14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." NLT Galatians 5:18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law. NLT Galatians 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law. NLT Galatians 6:2 Share each other's troubles and problems, and in this way obey the law of Christ. **lest you become confused the law of Christ is not the same as the law of Moses** NLT Galatians 6:13 And even those who advocate circumcision don't really keep the whole law. They only want you to be circumcised so they can brag about it and claim you as their disciples. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Needless to say, I would invite you to look at the New Testament again Hoodwink. I really can't see how you would have missed all of these references the first time. I love you. Your friend, Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-09-200106:30 PM LYNYRD SKYNYRD Member 311 Posts Member since: 03-07-2001 HOODWINK ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's obvious that you're one of the people who have been on this thread before with just a different name. You are either prairie nigger/rictus/grump/mike sorrow etc.etc. Just about everyone of your posts except when you replied to one of mine earlier has been here!!! I think you're rictus but I could be wrong. I know that your someone who comes here often. Why else would your first posts be jumping in here ??? DON'T TRY TO CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING ELSE!!! I THINK YOU'RE A FAKE . I THINK YOU'RE A PUSSY HIDING BEHIND A DIFFERENT NAME. THEN YOU POST HERE WITH ANOTHER NAME ACTING LIKE A GENTLEMEN. WHEN IN REALITY YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!!! HOODWINK(PANSY ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKER) STOP HIDING !! I'M ADOLF GANDHI AND THE ONLY REASON I HAVE A NEW NAME WAS BECAUSE I WAS BANNED AND I DIDN'T WANT TO GET BANNED AGAIN. TELL US WHO YOU REALLY ARE PUSSY. SORRY TO THE INNOCENT,I HAVEN'T POSTED HERE IN A LONG TIME AS PROMISED BUT I JUST COULDN'T STAND FOR THIS HATEFUL CONDESCENDING SHIT ANYMORE. I WILL TRY TO STAY GONE. WHEN JOHNNY REB COMES MARCHING HOME, GRAB YOUR DAUGHTERS AND RUN LIKE HELL!! posted 03-09-200106:31 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hey Adolph ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It is good to see you my friend. That is a good point. I don't know why Hoodwink would only have 6 posts to his credit if he's been on the bbs since the beginning of the year. However, I am not going to accuse him of anything. Maybe he was just reading and waiting to come in...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-09-200106:50 PM LYNYRD SKYNYRD Member 311 Posts Member since: 03-07-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I DIDN'T EXPECT YOU TO FREEGRACE. BUT.... I AM!!!! HE'S A FAKE. HE KNOWS IT. I KNOW IT. HE IS SOMEONE WHO POSTS HERE OFTEN AND WANTED TO TRY TO FLAME YOU FOR YOUR BELIEFS BUT DOESN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO SHOW HIS REAL SELF. HE HIDES BEHIND A DIFFERENT NAME BECAUSE HE IS A GUTLESS LOSER COWARD. WHEN JOHNNY REB COMES MARCHING HOME, GRAB YOUR DAUGHTERS AND RUN LIKE HELL!! posted 03-09-200108:27 PM Rictus Member 3203 Posts Member since: 06-05-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HE HIDES BEHIND A DIFFERENT NAME BECAUSE HE IS A GUTLESS LOSER COWARD. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yeah, too true, johnny reb. Me. Please take a moment to post your Manson story on this thread . Thank you. Random Quote club 2001 - member No. 1 "All the drugs in this world Won't save her from herself..." *^*Co-founder and proud member of the blackjack appreciation society. She's tiny but she rules.*^* "Kill The Cheese!!!" posted 03-10-200105:00 AM Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ everything a-g/l-s/j-r says is so PERFORMATIVE... if you don't know what that word means, look it up.. it comes from speech act theory in the earlier part of the 20th century... anyway.... well, i guess i have nothing to contribute, actually. i asked some questions but no one replied to them. but that's ok. godless and happy, grump ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-10-200109:33 AM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Sorry Grump and Attention Hoodwink ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I consider the masculine attributes to God the Father (Jesus was definitely male) to be anthropomorphic language. Our God is a complicated God and I think that many attributes that are given to Him in the bible are put in terms that humans can understand. John Calvin called it childspeak. It is as when you have an infant or a toddler you don't speak with the same vocabulary and language as an adult because you have to put it in terms that they can understand it. God's wisdom is high above ours and hard to understand. Therefore He has to place things in images or analogies that make them easier to understand. How God could be a Father without being male is one of those things that is difficult to understand (how God could be a Father at all is difficult). Therefore, I believe that the language being used there is anthropomorphic and God the Father has no gender because He is Spirit. I hope this helps. Sorry I didn't answer your question. Hoodwink...I think you do have some answering to do. You've made some pretty strong statements on this bbs. You seemed to suggest that you've been watching this thread from the beginning. However, upon further review of your profile: http://marilynmansonbbs.artistdirect.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=mprf&s=10019&u=9011955841 It appears that you only have 7 messages, all of which were posted on this thread and your date of registration is 03-06-2001. Therefore unless you were on this bbs for 2 months without registering (unlikely), you are a fraud. As I said to Adolph, I am not willing to accuse you of anything, but I do see a contradiction here. If I had to bet, I would agree with Adolph's assertion that you are somebody else on this thread (possibly Prarie or Illuminated but I have no idea who) who isn't courageous enough to say who you really are. If it is you Prarie, you know that you have several questions that I asked that you have yet to answer. That is ironic in light of how much you blasted me for not answering your questions. Hoodwink, whoever you are, make yourself known. If you are hiding behind another name, that is an awfully cowardly thing to do. You musn't truly believe what you say or you wouldn't have to hide to say it. I am leaving out of town until Tuesday. I look forward to seeing your response when I return. Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-11-200107:21 AM Prairie Nigger Member 1359 Posts Member since: 11-01-2000 Freegrace ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If it is you Prarie, you know that you have several questions that I asked that you have yet to answer. That is ironic in light of how much you blasted me for not answering your questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Consequent of this statement, and many others of a similiar nature that you have made, I have decided to respectfully remove myself from any further disucssion with you. Given that you've done nothing but accuse me of attacking you (whilst hiding behind Adolf Ghandi of all people), I see no point in continuing this. I've yet to see you answer a single question that I've posed and it's only just become clear that you don't have the answers. A theology built upon fabrication and supposition is just that. Garbage in, garbage out. Before making outrageous accusations I would advise you to get your facts straight. I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to put yourself in the position of moral arbiter...I can assure that your religion accords you no such luxuries. Anyway, all the best to you then. I hope this sensory addicition proves more successful than the last. p.n. "Yeah, hes like an STD." - Order in an Artificial Chaos posted 03-11-200104:19 PM Lord of the Nazgúl Member 1369 Posts Member since: 02-02-2001 *interrupts with random quotation* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Gateway to Christianity is not through an intricate labyrinth of dogma, but by a simple belief in the person of Christ." - William Lyon Phelps And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion. Thank you, and good night... posted 03-11-200104:43 PM LYNYRD SKYNYRD Member 311 Posts Member since: 03-07-2001 LET YOUR FAITH NOT STAND IN THE WISDOM OF MAN , BUT IN THE POWER OF GOD!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREEGRACE DOESN'T HIDE FROM OR BEHIND ANYONE ASSHOLE!!!!! EITHER DO I !!!!! I'M NOT HIDING FROM ANYONE NO ONES HIDING FROM ME THATS THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE MR. BREEZE!!!!! I USE A DIFFERENT NAME BECAUSE OF MOSQUITOS !! I DON'T LIKE BEING ANNOYED BY THEM. BUT I'M CERTAINLY NOT HIDING FROM THEM. OR..... SCARED OF THEM!!!! This is my first post in days. I hate this place. HOODWINK IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THEN ME RICTUS...... ANOTHER FUCKED UP COMPARISON ATTEMPT WHICH ONLY PURPOSE WAS TO FLAME ME.(DONE BY THE INTELLECTUALLY RENOWNED RICTUS) HOODWINK CAME HERE FOR VINDICTIVE PURPOSES UNDER AN ALIAS AND ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS A COWARD. PERIOD. ONCE,AGAIN.....THE ASSHOLES WHO HATE ME ALWAYS TAKE TO THE OTHER SIDE. LOL. CHILDREN. I AM FREE AS A BIRD. AND THIS BIRD YOU CANNOT CHANGE. posted 03-13-200106:44 AM reznorramirez Member 673 Posts Member since: 08-02-2000 Heya people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That was one large bit of reading, the past 718 posts. You;re all incredibly intelligent. It's cool to read stuff by people smarter than you for a change. I would like to say that I believe there IS a god, that he;s a really twisted, fucked up deity that passes his time by creating races of people (us) and fucking with us. That's MY view, at least. I'll go into it later. BYE BYE posted 03-13-200107:14 AM Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ^yawns and leaves^ ^finds the idea of a sadistic god using us as playthings amusing^ ^then really leaves^ ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-13-200109:43 PM All times are PST . << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> | Page:Next Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 |