Session Start: Mon Feb 08 20:03:04 1999
*** Now talking in #Subs_discuss
*** ChanOP (service@austnet.org) has joined #Subs_discuss
*** ChanOP sets mode: +o ChanOP
*** ChanOP changes topic to 'Next discussion TONIGHT Monday,
8 Feb. 9pm AEST...subs and switches only...Topic: COMMUNICATION
presented by destinyBP and vidette{CL}. Please adhere to channel
rules and enjoy :))'
*** ChanOP sets mode: +nt
ok we ready to post the rules?
* barak{Ras} nods nods
Questions can be asked at any time during the
discussion however due to time constraints it would be appreciated
if personal experiences were not discussed, there will be time
afterwards to do this
.
Also the sub play that we all love so much should be
kept to a minimum or preferably not displayed at all in channel
once the discussion starts
.
If you have a question please indicate so by typing a ?
and when you are asked to proceed please do so :)
[20:54] Hopefully we can limit the
discussion to an hour to an hour and a half, as we know many of
you have Master's or Mistress to attend to *grin*
oops
heheh
lol
?
dont ask
* barak{Ras} is jus filling in for SirRon *grin*
ok...can you give me a wee minute please ?
yes vidette
shit i better reboot, brb
ok...will wait for kitten
* destinyBP smiles at vidette...
* vidette{CL} winks at destiny..thanks
First of all...welcome everyone...good to see you
here again this week :))
Tonight's topic is communication as you know
There are various aspects of communication that i'll
raise.
At the end of each segment, discussion is encouraged.
I'll indicate when we get to those points.
One other thing before we begin...
I felt there was a little confusion at the end of
last week's discussion as to who was interested in taking the next
discussion...
i think maybe one idea as to how to avoid this would
be for those who are interested in taking a discussion
to put forward an outline to either totty, sara or
myself and we can then plan it in advance
How do people feel about this?
* belara nods in agreement
* barak{Ras} is laready planning his outline
* destinyBP thinks it is a great idea :)
anyone else got any objections?
good idea vidette
ok...i think that's the way we'll go then :)
let's begin :)
.
Trust and communication are the keys to a successful
relationship. I believe much more communication is required in a D/s
relationship than in a normal vanilla relationship....there's more to
take into consideration.
The health of the relationship hinges on both side's
ability to communicate effectively, not only their dissatisfaction
and disappointments, but also their pleasure and satisfaction.
It's also important to communicate things that may be
an issue for you - either past abuse, fears, phobias and uncertainties.
Never expect your Dom/me to be a mind-reader, although *grins*
some will tell you they know you better than you know yourself.
The only way to get your needs met, is to communicate
them.
Communicating effectively is more than just talking.
You have to be able to voice your concerns, hopes, needs, dreams,
disappointments, and hurts as well as all the positive emotions you
so willingly share.
Remember it's also *listening* to what is said
and the way it's said. Gestures, facial expressions and body
language often say more than words. Listen to what is behind the
words. Don't judge or ridicule. Just listen.
* vidette{CL} smiles at kitten..wb
:)
Communication can be difficult for some, but it can
be done little by little if that works better for you. You give a
little...build a little more trust...give a little more...build more
trust...brick by brick. Trust = Respect = Communication = Trust
and so it goes on and on.
* lilly bounces in
If your partner isn't prepared to listen to what you
have to say...your questions, your concerns, your wants and needs...
perhaps it's time to reconsider the relationship.
.
Any questions or comments at this point?
?
yep barak?
?
just wanted to say that i have found that the more
you talk and listen..the better it gets :))
* vidette{CL} smiles...i second that barak
* sara{X^L} smiles to barak
yes belara?
For me the incread neccessary communication of a BDSM
relationship is one of the joys of the relationship
i live the exploration that comes with increased
communciation :-)
yes...it's something i always found lacking in
previous relationships
love
thanks
anyone else?
ok...
Another key communications and safety tool is a
contract (also known as a slave contract), which bears a vague
resemblance to a prenuptial agreement. D/s'ers often prepare formal
written agreements that specify the nature of the prospective D/s
relationship and delineate the guidelines partners will observe.
These agreements are meticulously negotiated by both
partners in a nonerotic context, so that power roles do not bias
judgment. Contracts typically stipulate limits and give concrete
expression to each partner's expectations and commitments.
.
Does anyone here have any experience of contracts that
they'd like to share?
?
yes barak{Ras} :)
gee i am talking alot tonight....
good on you :)
?
but i have just come through the whole negotiation
thing with a contract...
can you share some of that with us barak{Ras}?
and i found that the more we talked about it and
discussed what we both wanted, the more we got to know each other
what we liked, and didn't like...
and what we would be willing to go through to make
the relationship work...
so you think it's helped open the pathways of
communication between you both then?
i think it helped to cement alot of the things we
felt about both each other and the relationship
*nods* yes, most definately vidette{CL}
* vidette{CL} nods at sara :)
sara?
ok...have had a relationship under a contract....yes
it worked at the start..just wanted to say...just because both
parties have sat down and worked this thing out...it still might
fail..they work for some but not all
yes...i've heard similar stories
?
yes barak{Ras}
it is possible that it wont work out, but we have
tried to look at that sort of thing by putting in the contract
that we will reveiw it regularly...so we can encompass changes
in the both of us
that's a good idea bara
barak even
can i ask you a question barak?
*nods* sure :)
do you think it's necessary to *sign* the contract
or is the process itself enough?
well, i think the process in and of itself is enough
sure you can sign the contract...but i think that the actual process
is the important part
* vidette{CL} nods
* destinyBP never signed her contract with Bp...it is written on
her heart..the paper copy is just "process"
* vidette{CL} nods...i can understand that :)
Does anyone else have anything to say about contracts?
* vidette{CL} smiles and welcomes totty
no, my contract is verbal, that it
well..moving along then...
Another good method of communication is the keeping
of a journal. It's can be a good way of keeping a record of your
journey, of expressing thoughts that either concern you or excite
you as they come to mind, of recording the answers and solutions to
your questions, of expressing desires and fantasies that perhaps you're
too shy to express verbally to your partner. This journal should be
shared by your Dom/me regularly.
!
destinyBP :)...yes?
just for the record...I find a journal (as well as
email sent to Master, even tho we live together)..is an excellent
way to say things that are embarassing or difficult to say face to
face.....particularly useful if there is something you REALLY need
to say, but can't do it irl..
oh yes...i agree...i often send epic sagas to CL...i
find it easier to put down in writing my deepest feelings...perhaps
it gives me time to think them out clearly
How do others feel about journals?
* cheekybren sits down quietly
they are an exellent tool of expression vidette
i do a journal and when Master and i meet he
reads it
journals are a great idea... if i was *made* to do it...
i'm quite hopeless otherwise
* totty writes thesis type things to Master too :)
i'm supposed to keep one...and i do write in it
occasionally...and he reads it occasionally *grins*
i think that a journal is a great idea...tho mine
usually end up being of novel size proportions
i'm more of an email girl myself lol
i do emails also vidette{CL} :)
yes... emails are better for me
what on earth did we do before the net??? lol
talk ??? :-)
have a life?
hehehe
wrote letters..lol
got divorced
lol
be right back
lol
oh well....
Body language is vital to good communication as
well and quite often says more than the words we speak. Also the
way you hold yourself...present yourself...communicates quite
clearly who you are.
CrimsonLord often reminisces of the day we first
met. His view of that day is quite remarkable and not something
that i was at all aware of at the time. He says he saw me sitting
on a wall, legs crossed but open. He says this was me showing him
what i had to offer, but not giving it away freely *grins*.
heheheh
He says my back was straight and my head held high
which showed him that i was strong and confident. When i talked to
him, i spoke with confidence and looked him in the eye. He knew
from this that my self-esteem was high and that he had met someone
he could communicate with equally.
That's just one example of body language. Other
examples could be body language in a scene...body language if
you're in an uncomfortable situation...upset about something etc.
Any questions or comments here?
yes vidette....
yes sara?
* sea_urchin will be back soon
usually if you are being completely honest to your
Dom/me your body language will more often than not give you away...
are not even
* destinyBP nods..yeah..that is true...BP can tell if I'm not
feeling well, just by the way I stand or move..
yes destiny
* vidette{CL} nods
ok...
Safewords are essential in good communication in
a play situation. Actually, they are not only useful in a play
situation, but also if you are discussing a painful or difficult
issue that you really need some time out on. Safeword!!
Some will say they don't need or use safewords.
I am one of those. I don't advocate that this is how it should
be for everyone. I believe strongly in safewords when just starting
out with a partner. I don't use them because my partner knows
me well. He has a clear understanding of my limits and is very
aware of my body language and the sounds i make when i can't
verbalise.
I trust him to the point where i don't need a
safeword. But that trust has been developed over a period of
time and experience. You can't know someone that intimately to
begin with. So always have a safeword negotiated. Some may disagree
with my thoughts on this.
!
yes destinyBP?
I just wanted to add....that a safeword is a very
valuable communication tool in new relationships...because until
you know each other well enough to read your Dom/me's body language,
or them to read yours, it can be the easiest way to say
"Hold up...this is going wrong"
* vidette{CL} nod nods...so important
Any other thoughts on this?
i agree with you both *kiss*
lol totty
?
yes treasure{ROC}? :)
do you believe it is better for new relationships
to start off with one safeword, ot to have a couple, one to slow
it down and another to stop it completely?
maybe there are some more experienced people here
that could comment on that??
!
yep totty?
* destinyBP found that starting out..it was easier to have several
words for difference situations..
* totty has back and red, back for change or slow down and red for
stop
it makes sense to have several
i don't have any...so it's hard for me to comment
and so far Master has always been able to read my body
language and i havent used them
but they are there for me if i need them
I was just curious about what others have, I have
3, but have never had the cause to use them :)
That's a valid point that you've both brought up...
* destinyBP has two...China for slow down..and Japan for stop :)
* vidette{CL} makes notes to discuss with CL :)
it's good to have them there, even if you don't need
to use them
* destinyBP chuckles..Bp just reminded her of her safewords....
I haven't known what they were for AGES..cause it just never
came up :)
This next part is purely dependent on the
individuals and the structure of their relationships...
There are other aspects of D/s communication
that take on a deeper level of the D/s dynamic. This purely
depends on the nature of your relationship. Some of them are:
Always maintaining eye contact with your Dom/me when they are
speaking to you. At other times, your eyes must be lowered.
You should never *close* your body to them. This means no
arms crossed in front of you, legs never crossed etc.
and i'm sure there are many others...thinking
back to my original training stuff
In some instances, your right to speech may be
taken away. If your Dom/me is going to take this right away
from you, you must negotiate a sign that you need to speak
freely to ask a question or request some urgent attention...
whatever. If your relationship is strict in this manner, or
if you are in a training situation, you should always have
free speech time at the end of your day or session or whatever
the case may be.
Others may have more to add here....anyone?
ummmmmm my basic rule
just do as you are told :))
hehehe
* totty chuckles
* cheekybren swats totty
Communication within the community is important
as well. While communication is essential between partners -
communication with others in your community is vital to growth
and understanding in relation to your submission.
Life is about feedback and we all turn to
friends, family and even acquaintances to get a better idea
of what our alternatives are in *any* situation. Being in this
lifestyle is no different. And being able to speak freely and
enjoy others face-to-face or screen-to-screen has altered the
structure of the bdsm community completely. Get to know others...
listen, learn and exchange.
How do we feel about the level of communication
in this community? Or this type of forum for example?
What works best for you? The channel? Lists?
Discussions? Face-to-face contact?
face to face for me :)
depends on the relationship :)
* destinyBP likes them all....*smiles* but doesn't care much for
lists...*shrugs*
i feel a bit the same about lists atm destiny :\
in general...i find knowing that i have friends
in the community i can turn to or just talk with is the greatest
feeling
I find that here works best for me... I tend not
to worry so much about what people think of me... face to face I
tend to clam up, afraid that people will think what I have to say
is not of any use... but am working on it
but i worry that the people who would benefit most
from this type of communication, don't tend to participate at all
* cheekybren nods
* destinyBP smiles at vidette..and nods in agreement with
treasure..yes..there is something to be said for the annonimity
factor that online interaction gives..
* totty grumbles
well treas..I for one can tell you..TALK AWAY irl...
I love to hear what you have to say :))
although i admit to not even saying much during
discussions too :)
thanks destinyBP :)
* vidette{CL} smiles...well you've done well tonight then
treasure{ROC}
treasure{ROC} from what i have read on your posts you
have much to contribute
oops there goes destiny lol
i agree
maybe that's just a self-confidence thing
treasure{ROC} :)
wb destinyBP :)
rehi's all :)
greetings
* treasure{ROC} nods... "I know it is vidette{CL}...
something I have a lot of problem overcoming
in that case be well :)
wb destinyBP *huggles*
be well Brinlarr :)
* destinyBP huggles tres....
i think being aware that it is a problem is a
huge step in overcoming it then...good for you :)
Well....in conclusion...
Communication is a learning process and it's a
never ending process. To master the art of good communication
and to encourage communication, will hopefully lead to a rich
and fulfilling relationship with your partner, that will thrive
in your knowledge of each other's deepest fears, dreams, hopes
and desires.
* vidette{CL} bows and throws open the floor for discussion :)
* destinyBP applauds vidette...
Thank you for your time everyone...does anyone have
anything to add?
i think we all need to communicate more, with most
of us, it is a lack of self confidence
* destinyBP agrees with kitten..
yes...agreed kitten...it takes some skill to
communicate well
i know i sit on things for weeks and weeks because
i'm afraid of what kind of reaction i'll get
ummmmmm.... could someone send me a complete
log of this later please... sorry i was late and missed the
first part
yes and also to get the exact message across
that you want put, instead of some garbled message that nobody
not even yourself can understand
of course treasure :)
but as a communication major..I'd like to point out
that one MAJOR factor in how well we communicate, depends on how
well we LISTEN..
good evening lovely people
* vidette{CL} nods
i think often some ppl should 'hold back'
from making
comments to 'allow' those shyer ppl some input
hi ya fritz{M^L
i sit on things for weeks and weeks too
vidette{CL},
but mostly because i don't know how to communicate well, never
sure of how to discuss feelings
hi fritz{M^L :) You've come in on the tail end
thanks vidette{CL} :))
hy, kitten
ask CL...i'm a ponderer...and he knows when i'm
pondering on something lol
hello vidette, Milady sends her regards
* vidette{CL} smiles and to her as well fritz{M^L
thank you, i'll pass on the messsage
yes cheekybren...from your comment before...it
would be nice to hear from the shier people...it's amazing how
far one positive reaction can go to something you've said...
and then...how damaging one negative reaction can
be also
* belara has been working at keeping her mouth shut !
lol..belara
* belara grins
thats when its up to those others to realise
when someone has 'delurked' and support them :) easier said
than done
this is the place to open it belara...go for it !!
yes...i guess it depends on the environment
tho cheekybren
i think you need to find the forum for
communication that works best for you
for example...i love talking this way...discussing
intelligently with likeminded people...listening to what others
have to say
i don't find that on the list tho
just my own opinion there :)
* gypsyrose{N} has to agree with vidette{CL} on that one
because people have more time to read what they
see
i tend to find that by the time i get around to
looking at the list, it's days old :)
i like this forum far better
yes me too, i like throwing my thoughts bit
by bit opening other avenues and expanding on that
that was the same with sara treas
but than again everyone communicates different
i still suffer from the problem though, of
tossing my 2c worth into the ring even in a place like this
some visual some audio
yes...that's right...i think just find the right
way for *you*
i feel more confident expressing myself here than on
the list
well as far as i'm concerned...it's good to toss
your 2c worth in...and one would hope that those listening would
respect your opinion
* treasure{ROC} nods in agreement with belara
oh yes...agreed
* cheekybren nods with belara
i think the lists are far too hierachial - thats
my 2c worth!
not all cheekybren
don't worry about flames or super intelligent people
writing amzing responses belittling everyhting i have said :-)
i recently joined the Latches list...and so far i
have found it supportive, encouraging, enlightening...all good
things :)
i sent 5 min with Milady on ausbdsm channel
yesterday and we left in discussed
Latches list?
geezus i am too scared to write to a list, i
would be totally demoralised by recieving a flame
realy fritz{M^L}???/
well that's how i felt about the ausbdsm list...
but that's another story lol
only three people were communicating and the rest
where lurking
it's an American list treasure...for fem subs only
oh..and fem subs in r/l relationships :)
that happens in the channel sometimes fritz...
depends on the time of day and who's in there
do they have restrictions on who can join
vidette{CL}?
they do treasure...it's quite an ordeal to join
actually lol
but a lot of small talk about nothing and a lot
of brats
i can give you the details if you like...i think
it's well worth the effort :)
thanks would like that vidette{CL} :)
np :)
fritz{M^L}, i was there at the time and i
think i am one of the brats
by the way is the disscussion about communication ?
lol kitten{Ozzie^}
thank you, i noticed
* vidette{CL} chuckles...that'd be right kitten{Ozzie^}
i am not always like that, but it is also a room
for laying round, what else can one do when nobody talks?
i could believe that kitten{Ozzie^} :))
different strokes for different foks
ooops playing around
that's why i like these spin off channels for
discussion...SirB's on a sunday night and now this one which
came about from SirB's :)
i am not backward in owning up fritz{M^L}
i think You had it right the first time kitten
:|
well...my Master is sick and sitting up waiting
for some TLC...
excuse me ppl but i am leaving
do we have any offers for next week? :)