Session Start: Mon Mar 01 20:16:28 1999
*** Now talking in #Subs_discuss
*** Topic is LDR's Presented by kenji{W}t Please adhere to channel
rules and enjoy :))'
* vidette{CL} smiles
i should *welcome* you all first...thanks for coming
Questions can be asked at any time during the discussion
however due to time constraints it would be appreciated if personal
experiences were not discussed, there will be time afterwards to do this
Also the sub play that we all love so much should be kept
to a minimum or preferably not displayed at all in channel once the
discussion starts
* bruno lives vicariously and has no personal experiences
lol bruno
* wee_foot{Y} giggles
If you have a question please indicate so by typing a ?
and when you are asked to proceed please do so :)
Hopefully we can limit the discussion to an hour to an
hour and a half, as we know many of you have Master's or Mistress to
attend to *grin*
ok...the floor is yours kenji girl :))
thanks vidette
Long Distance relationships...LDR.
My Disclaimer: these words are only my feelings and having
been now in two LDR one internationally and one now in Aus.i have
written about the things that have worked for me.
Master also means Mistress, she equals he, Dom translates
also to Domme.
The topic is general and not in depth as there are many
variables and would take a month of Sundays to cover.
I would also like to narrow my comments to those in a r/l
LDR relationship as I feel that is more important at this stage..no I am
not saying an online LDR is also not important but the issues sometimes
are very different.
Why?
After having spent time with a Master r/l and having shared
the intimacy of that relationship, his touch, his caress, his kiss, it
often makes it harder to cope.
I can offer you all 2000 suggestions and ideas in coping
mechanisms and support but unless there is good communication with your
Master then anything I say is useless.
Yes the ability to cope is a two way thing in LDR. A Master
can be feeling as you do and they also have to have your support as YOU
MUST HAVE THEIRS..
how we going
?
can i make a comment please?
yes vidette{CL}
fine, I'm still with you
i was just thinking...from my own experience...an online
LDR can be an intense experience...but everything changes once you make
that first real life connection
yes that is one of the variables.everything changes once r/l
enters after online
okay i will keep going
First, words of wisdom from an oldie...to be able to sustain a
LDR - KNOW YOURSELF, be in touch with your feelings, make sure you are
emotionally strong enough, as some times you will need to draw on an
inner strength to cope.
Why is this important?
Because many times you are going to have to work things
through alone. Your Master may get ill, unable to communicate - take
this also into consideration as it is part of the reality of LDR.
Then ask yourself before committing totally - can my Master
give me the support I will need in all areas of my life the same as I am
offering him. Talk to him.this is so important.. Yes at first you will
have lots of support, the relationship is young and fresh and eager...but
what about as months pass and there is no physical contact. You must
continue to talk to Your Master about your needs and also ensure he is
coping as well.
How do we cope...what can we do?
Some ideas:
First make sure you have a good friend preferably real life
that you can talk too about your feelings, if this is not possible find
yourself someone online that you can go to. If you are choosing someone
online sometimes it is not always good to choose a giggle/chat buddy but
someone who you respect and is also living a LDR.
Communication is next. How often are you and your master
going to communicate. Ask him so that you can set a routine of being
together. NOT only online but through telephone contact also. At times
you will both need the intimacy of your voices. Set a time at least once
a week if possible when you can both talk freely and of your feelings.
Saying Goodbye? This is the hard bit.......
You have both been together and the moment comes to
part....whew this is the time when the body starts to close down..may take
a few days to come of cloud nine but it will happen....how do we manage
when the old sub drop hits.
No one to hold you as you cry..no soft loving words 24 hours
a day. A phone call which often makes you feel worse because you don't
want him to know how desperate you are feeling. He tells you he is
feeling lost without you which makes you feel worse again because you
cant be there for him.
These are the hard times we encounter....and there is no exact
or right answer for any of us.
Just go back to step one and two. Talk with a friend,
communicate your feelings with your Master and encourage him to do the
same with you.....you will both be feeling the pain of isolation.
all keeping up
* vidette{CL} nods
yep
Subby hint line:
Go to the store and buy yourself something..i always limit
this to $2 and it has to be something that reminds me of Master. Yes it
is hard in that price range and a little giggle erupts as I pick up a
hammer cause I want to hit him at that moment, because I feel so
lost.....or the little cuddly fluffy toy with weird eyes or a cactus,
thinking where I would like to shove it....LOL.
making notes...i have some comments and questions i'll
save for the end
Make time for yourself........spoil yourself...a wine and a bubble
bath....
The pain will pass, it always will, sometimes easier than
the last, sometimes harder..but it does.
Last from me
Friendly advice to absorb or toss out:
Do not enter a LDR even if you think you are ready until you
think about the following.
1. Do you totally trust heart and soul the Master you are
with.
2. Can you both fulfill each others needs when together or
apart despite his or your status.....married..work.
3. Can you be alone when others are playing around you.
4. Do you trust his honesty in his devotion to your
relationship, can he trust yours.
5. Do you have the strength it takes to live on memories of
his touch for months apart.
If one of these answers comes up no or maybe....take time out
and think very hard about it..as to be collared in a LDR is a hard road
to walk. DO NOT accept a collar for the sake of having someone.
Be honest in all that you say and do..because one day when
the tinsel stops glittering and the newness fades can you still both
fullfill each others needs, and not destroy each other with the pains of
doubt and complacency. This is also especially hard if either of you go
back to a spouse..the doubts can become burdens as to where you or he
fits.
Okay off my soap box........
* vidette{CL} smiles
can i add something?
go for it vidette{CL}
thanks kenji :)
some very balanced and valid points kenji{W}t
one thing to keep the energy in a long distant
relationship would be for your Master to set tasks and goals for
you...and for you to have something to focus on in regard to the
relatinship while you're apart
please do not get me wrong an LDR can be beautiful and i am
blessed in that..but be careful
very true vidette
my previous Master used to give me things to do at certain
times...even the smallest things
sara gets them often
yes i also have that happening
like run a finger down my cheek and think of him at 12.00
*grins*
just little things that helped keep it alive
yes the communication thing is so important wether through
tasks orr by phone, email whatevere
* garnet` nods. We meet online, most days. My Dom and I.
netmeeting is a wonderful thing for communication...you
speak voice over the net for a fraction of the cost
i'm forever sending CL little notes...cards...nice
things...just to keep the energy going when we're apart
yes it is so important to remember that you are not the only
one in this relationship
But at the same time remember you should expect something
total and fulfilling in return
i think it's so important to be absolutely clear about
what you want before you get involved in a LDR....
there's no point getting involved if you want to change it
once it starts
this is so important if your Master is married.
yes...i guess that sheds a whole new light on things kenji{W}t
yes one of the many variables
may I make a statement on that kenji{W}t ?
it becomes a complex issue in that case
One thing we made a point of is not making any sort of
permanency until all people involved had met RL.
yes tahlia
I was always under a misconception that it was harder for me
than MY Master as he had a wife and family to go home too but it is just
has hard for him to be seperated from me
yes tahlia it is..and as i am also in that siuation i can
understand that
does anybody mind if my Master watches for this talk?
no kitten
it becomes so complicated when you look at the dynamics of
each relationship...Master's/Dom's that have a submissive who fulfils a
need they don't get from their relationship with their wives...is that
more common with LDR's do you think?
thank you kenji :)
yes i believe so vidette{CL}
not sure it is planned LDR just happened for me vidette{CL} I
am sure he could have found a sub closer but we clicked
my Master says yes
but as i saaid at the beginning i talked generally as the
topic can enter many streets depending on status of couples
so...again...as submissives we need to be very aware of
what we are stepping into in these instances
My LDR happened only when I went over and met him. Just for
friendship.
i have a question.. since i missed the beginning of the
talk.. if no one minds
I was going to the states anyway, had known him for six or
seven years online.. and when we met RL it was .. *click*. We were
hooked.
yes azure{DR}
i always used to say that the distance in my previous
relationship (LDR) was a form of bondage greater than what he could ever
apply lol
thanks kenji
* sara{X^L} smiles at garnet
i was aware before i entered this relationship that my
Master was in a vanilla relationship, i accepted that no hesitation.
what are you considering LDRs.. out of town, hundreds of
miles away??
any distance and time away from each other azure{DR}
* midnight{LS} nods at vidette{CL}'s comment
azure can be anywhere
* tahlia LDR is 800km
ok thanks
i varies from person to person
azure i live in townsville. my Master in canberra
* kenji{W}t is only 300kms away
Anything where distance is a factor in the relationship.
Physical distance.
umm means nothing to me kitten :)) im in the states
i am 1,000's
CL lives 2 hours north of sydney...i live 2 hours south
and we don't see each other all the time...i guess that's a LDR in a way
ok
With no car and no public transport, across town can be an
LDR.
i understand.. was just wondering
ok over2000 azure
yes true granet
is time then an LDR, only seeing dom's once a week or
month?
azure my first Master was in USA and qantas made a bundle
i wouldn't consider that really a Long Distance
Relationship midnight{LS}...you could live next door and only see them
once a month lol
If physical distance is a significant factor in the
relationship, midnight, I'd call it an LDR.
can be midnight{LS}
depends on why
for myself.. i found LDRs to no longer be fulfilling
* vidette{CL} nods to garnet`...yes...the inability to be together
so what can we do to ensure that communication between a
Master and sub stays at an optimum
vidette{CL}, my Master and Mistress are 1 hour and half
from me by train, I see them once a week or two weeks to me this is LDR
cos travel takes soo long for me and the timing and scheduling.
* vidette{CL} waves to Ozzie...you're very priveleged you know lol
* garnet` nods to midnight. I'd say that counts.
for me i constantly email, just thoughts, call
sometimes, not often enough to be a prob but to remind him i am here
yes...but that's a bit different to it being a physical
incapability of getting there...if you really really wanted to get there
you could
kenji{W}t I talk to my Master almost everyday both online and
on the phone I find this helps tremendously
in kitten's case...she couldn't just jump on a train and
get to see her Master
thanks
know what i mean?
yes it does.the more contact the better
so does sara tahlia
Master waves to vidette{CL}
yes vidette{CL}, midnight{LS} nods
we speak for about 3 hours voice every night
kenji{W}t tells of an instance when she was set an email task everyday
to do
she emailled everyday without fail
and looked for responese each day to her efforts
none came
* sara{X^L} grins to kenji
ooooh
so she stopped the task
My Master i'm afraid does let me down with the
communication, he does phone me daily during the week, but i am not a
phone person
* garnet` nodnods to kenji
Master after asking why was told why
god i'd love it if CL rang me every day
yes kenji, i do not get much in the way of responce
either. it hurts
and we also spoke of things being a two way committment even
in a task
you need some acknowledgement
* tahlia is definitely a phone person ...lol...can talk up to three hrs
* sheeeesh the phone bills :(
You must except and get back what you put in
very true.. kind of loses the point
i cannot vixen`, one because of his work and two
because of his partner
shit that was to vidette{CL}
* amber{LN} smiles to kitten{Ozzie^}
lol
kitten your Master must be made aware how not having the
return in communication to you is painful for you
* kitten{Ozzie^} smiles to amber
a hello sweet in an email..is not saying a lot to you
he just said he is aware of it and is always aware, it
drives him crazy, isn't it a shame that i am only now aware of it
COMMUNICATION KITTEN AND OZZIE..GET WITH THE PROGRAM...LOL
so many let the communication slip by then.,... at one time,
i went and visited my then Master.. when i came home, i didnt speak to
him for 2 weeks unless i initiated a call... he wasnt even on irc
didnt take me long to get rid of the collar...
very true kenji, i am pointing this out to Master now
yes so many times the Master forgets
* vidette{CL} wanders back in with easter eggs for everyone and a fresh
* cuppa :)
ooooo chokkies
* kenji{W}t puts down her valium and has an eggie
* vidette{CL} smiles....yummmmmmmmmm
to be honest and MASTER knows this, i came here for
this trip to walk away, we have since talked and we are staying as one
* kenji{W}t hugs kitten..HOORAY
* vidette{CL} smiles at kitten{Ozzie^} and Ozzie...good for you *hugs*
congrats kitten
* kitten{Ozzie^} hugs kenji{W}t and vidette{CL} :)
* kenji{W}t hugs Ozzie...HOORAY
* amber{LN} hugs kitten{Ozzie^}
thank you azure{DR}
and to you Ozzie, Sir :))
Ozzie well done Sir
I am glad for you kitten{Ozzie^}
kitten{Ozzie^} I am happy and releaved for you both
* kitten{Ozzie^} is close to tears here you guys are great
i think communication is the key to it all
* kenji{W}t suggests to kitten..stop gagging him. the gag is for the
* sub..LOL
yes vidette{CL} it is and kenji{W}t..lol
you have to be able to talk talk and talk some
more...well...even in a non LDR...lol
well all i hope somewhre along the way something has helped
it is so easier to do things when one is face to face
* vidette{CL} thinks of all the wild and kinky sex they're gonna have
* this week lol
yes it is kitten{Ozzie^}
sometimes tho.. it is harder
It's much easier to talk ftf.
excuse me plse I have to go.... kenji thanks heaps :)))
........have great wild and kinky sex kitten{Ozzie^} and Ozzie and talk
:)))))))
If you can let the talk happen rather than the touch, the
smell, the taste, the -sound-, the ...
very hard over a distance, a cry for help can look so
insignificant to one far away
but in an LDR ftf is a luxury most of the time
i find it harder sometimes...
been known to beg Master to get online and talk there
and ftf can get off track by the mere physical presence of each
other
ok i have just made a valid point to my Master may i
say it
Of course.
sure kitten{Ozzie^} :)
yes kitten
* vidette{CL} pops the last easter egg in her mouth
bitch vixen` i wanted it
oops vidette{CL}
* vixen` coughs
ha ha vixen`...you got the blame lol
the commitment from me has always been there, the one
from him has never wavered nor died, just lacking in getting to me
lol as usual *sigh*
* vidette{CL} nods
a communication breakdown
yes sometimes that happens and our Masters need to be aware
of it
that communication thing can be a tricky and scary thing
tho
that can happen face to face too
yes vidette{CL}
yes it is vidette and yes azure also there too
* tahlia has a question
so i think the point here is one. the sub does need the
Master, two he needs to be more aware of passing it on to his sub.
i know there's times when i don't want to burden CL with
something...but he says he'd be upset with me if i didn't...that i
belong to Him and He needs to know what's going on
Go ahead, tahlia.
exactly vidette
ditto vidette
does anyone find them self insecure at times being so far away
and thinking silly things like their Master may find another sub closer
?
oh yes tahlia
lol all the time
YES!
lol i get too quiet.. Master says he can feel the vibrations
from my brain working.. then demands to know what is making it spin so
fast
yes tahlia
very much so tahlia.
no...but i've battled other insecurities
yes
Yes yes yes yes yes YES YES YES!
ok I take that as majority yes :)
* vidette{CL} smiles
i just like to be different lol
My Master has just shown me an email from a sub who is
collared and wants to meet him
lol tahlia
Kenji{W}t is 10 years older than Wolfie and despite age not being an
issue.i worry he might find someone younger and super looking
how is that to make me feel, but anger at that sub
And: why does he bother with me? Who am I that he's willing to
spend so much energy on me?
or super body
* garnet` nods to kitten.
that's always a problem with the easy accessibility these
days...ie. email and irc etc
yes garnet
that was aimed at kitten :)
no kitten be complimented in the fact Ozzie wants you
sometimes there is a blatant disregard for collars
garnet, you are special and that is why he wishes to
spend energy on you, as you are special !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think we all have to have faith in that too kenji{W}t, that
they want US
Who am I that he's willing to spend so much time, and
patience, and energy, and money, getting no return but hazy promises
that we'll try to get there in September, and the possibility that he
might get a chance to move to be with me one day...
yes vidette{CL}, thats true, but it does make you
wonder what is going on with the trust honesty in a relationship
kitten by the fact of Him showing you ...says it all..you
should feel secure that your Master is showing you that it is you He
wishes
well it pisses me off too...not that i feel insecure about
him...but that a sub would have the audacity to do it...i certainly
wouldn't
yes that gets back to my statement before
garnet` smiles at midnight. "I know that intellectually. But these
are
insecurities that I have.. that may be common to most of us. Maybe?
4. Do you trust his honesty in his devotion to your
relationship, can he trust yours.
yes garnet
midnight{LS} believes if you say it long enough, it becomes true,
affirmations are majic and create reality
i wonder that with my Master and we are 24/7.... he is so
... uhmm hot and sexy.. why the heck did he chose me?
i think that all comes back to self esteem
yes it does vidette{CL}
yes our own litlle insecurities keep lifting there head all
the time...but be complimented in the fact your Master chose YOU
midnight{LS} asks a question to all... why wouldnt someone spend time
and energy on you? You are a unique human being with a great gift
oh i am.. but at times.. things sneaks out
exactly kenji{W}t
and the gift of submission is the greatest gift you can give
<`vixen> and a warm and loving nature
garnet` smiles at midnight. "But we are all unique human beings, and
in all modesty, most subs have the gift we have. Not identical ones, but
hey."
when the communication is missing thats when the
insecurities arise
god kenji{W}t...that's the comment that got me in the shit
on the mailing list lol
yes it does kitten..but it will not happen again will it
both of you
yep but its so true though vidette{CL}
So why -shouldn't- Bison find a sub in Indiana or neighbouring
states who is also intelligent, pretty, geekish, introvert... all the
attributes he likes in me.
communication is the key to any relationship, bdsm or
vanilla, family or boss... If you dont have communication you dont have
a relatinship
because *you* belong to Him already garnet`
Surely there's a sub in Indiana and environs who could also
suit him.. he could look for her...
we will try not to let it
garnet` smiles at vidette. "And besides, he could be saying the same
about me."
he likes all the things that make *you* who you are
vidette{CL} smiles at garnet`...see you know you belong to Him without
a doubt
I have an answer to it. I like -him-. I've known him for seven
years, maintained a platonic friendship with him for that long.
kenji{W}t DCC's kitten and Ozzie a gold star sticker each cause they are
working hard at things