Debate - Angels

Debate Topic -
What are the ANGELS?
Is man the last and fallen angel?

Initial Post


Submitted by: 17th ANGEL- The angels are messangers of god as we are children of god.Why then are they attacking us?Is it merely because we hold ADAM,the being to which all ANGEL's must return?
In the bible it tells how lucifer was cast out of heaven.In his fall from grace he lost everything but most importantly he lost his divinity. Misato says we are the 18th ANGEL and if thats so are we lucifer? Hear me out,what if in his fall he was not cast to hell but to earth and on impact he shattered into a million fragments with each fragment becoming a human that still retain a small amount of his divinity.This would explain many things. Firstly it explain why the angels attack(through out the bible there are many stories of angels kicking the @$##!!!!out hells denizens. Also it explains why ANGELs are so big and we so puny(only by combining all the tiny fragments of our divinity can we equal the magnitude of a full Divine entity.Also the A.T.FEILD ,ANGELS can call one effortlessly, while humans have "forgotten",it is still obvious we have the ability (rei produced one in the 24th episode). But most of all it explains why we must merge into a single being in order to reach heaven(THIRD IMPACT). The thing is, now that its the end of the world it seems everything is going in reverse,the universe was made in an explosion and will end in an implosion (exact opposite of an Explosion)in the same way we returning to lilith is like a full grown man returning to his mothers womb, its all going in reverse! Why then are Angels returning to ADAM? Why would a divine heavenly creature wish to return to the first man (if thats really what adam is)? Please help me answer these questions before my brain vaporises , 17th ANGEL

Follow-ups


Submitted by: Malachy- OK, here's where it get's confusing. The Angels are NOT messangers from God. Remember that Misato said that they were all human, just like us. We ate from the Tree of Knowlegs and lost our immortality. However, the Angels ate from the Tree of Life and became immortal. The only way they would die was to destroy their core/heart/soul. All the other Angels then took on other Evolutionary paths, save for Kaoru who remained in his human form.
So why did they attack us? There really is no question, they are human. Even though they ate from the Tree of life they still had the inborn human trait for violence, and the Ultimate weapon is Adam's Shockwave. For some reason the Angels were asleep and were going to wake up at 2015 to join with Adam and fight the 18th Angel, us. Seele found out about this in the Dead Sea scrolls and decided to use it for thair advantage to initiate 3rd impact when the time is right so they could begin the Human Instrumentality plan.
Obviously, the Angels were surprised to find that when they awoke, Adam was gone. They could still sense him though somehow and attacked Tokyo -3.

Submitted by: ayanami clone 00- when misato says we are the last angel she says this because she is making a comparison to how the angels destroyed her life with the second impact and how man is doing the same thing they destroyed her life (the JSSDF). she doesn't mean we are the 18th angel she is just merly saying that we are like them because man destroyed her life just like the angels. As to the AT field the reason the angels can use theirs so easily is because their souls are "free" the AT field is something that everyone has and it keeps are souls bound to us and limits are awarness but keeps us from become on being. this is shown in the end of Evangelion. as to mergeing into one to reach heaven we don't have to do this but this way it allows people who would not make it into heaven based on their own merits in. That is why Keele wants to start the thrid impact. Remember he is the wandering jew who spit on the curcifed body of Christ and his punshiment was to walk the earth forever. the thrid im! pact would allow him to go to heaven. as to Gendo's reason he wants to be back with Yui. the angels attack us to prevent us from starting the constructive thrid impact(where man goes to heaven) the angels are trials for amn to face. each one is harder then the last this is to prevent the third impact from happening if mankind is not ready. the angels are trying also to return to Adam to start the destructive third impact (where man dies). the angels must return to the one which they came just as we must return from were we came. The name angels is miss leading because the are actually heavenly messangers not "angels" in the sense we think of. the whole idea that the angels are human just doesn't work because that would mean they would try to return to lilith (the mother of all humanity) and not Adam. when Misato said they were human it was refering to how the ruined her life not to them being real humans. the angels were never asleep it was foretold in the dead sea scrolls that if man started down the wrong path(cloning and playing god) that Adam would come to warn them. It was also said that to create the constructive third impact all 17 heavenly messanges would have to be defated and a man made angel would have to meld with lilth and we would have to have the spear.

Submitted by: 17th ANGEL- Lilith,Adam these are the ying and yang of mans heavenly fate. One destroys the other gives eternal life. We are born from lilith and yet adam represents all man-kind. I understand now.lilith, adam they are us, mother and father to us all. Lilith is passive,adam destructive, lilith gives us her love while adam attempts to destroy us(2nd impact).Despite their apparently opposite natures how are they different?They are both heavenly beings, lesser than god yet greater then angels. THEY are gods heavenly messangers the 3rd to 14th angels are just bullies sent to destroy man.the 15th to 17th are divine psychitrists sent to analysis the worth of man.15th-tear apart the human mind to see what it contains 16th-bond with one of them and discover what lies in his deepest Psyche.17th-love man and discover what lies deep within his heart.These are the messangers,And we are the last.We are the angel who lies divided,who rages against itself, we were born somewhere between lilith and adam and we have the choice to go either way.Notice how all an angel must do is touch adam or lilith to cause the 3rd impact yet we must go through a complex ritual just to get started. What the series didn't show is it possible to instigate the destructive 3rd impact using the same ritual with adam(though no body in their right mind would wish such a thing).Man must choose his fate weather passive bliss or rageing self destruction. It means shit all which tree we ate from,all that matters is we are the same as the Angels, created from the same stuff and stuck in the same situation.weather you call us angels or humans we are damn near identical.Both war-like yet there are those among us (both angel and human)that long to merge and love others.This is a war. a war between two waring races who vie to survive by destroying the other.We are the 18th angel(or the 18th man according to MALACHY)and its time for mankind to mature real quick or die.I don't give a flying f--k weather "SHITO" translates into ANGEL or messanger,call us and them what you like.Misato knew what she was talking about, both man and angel F--ked up her life and both are exactly alike in thought feeling and arrogance.And where the hells god in this mini ARMAGEDDON?Did it ever occour to anyone that the angels are as far from heaven as we are? we are the 18th angel.as numerous as IRUEL's many micro-components,as destructive as Zeruel and as loving as Kaworu. Man made his choice and what ever he was before 3rd impact dissappered when we merged to become the last and greatest angel. 17th ANGEL

Submitted by: Tabris- OK, just want toclear some things up..

-The Angels were mistaken in attacking Tokyo-3. They thought that Adam was there, but in actuality until ep. 7 He was elsewhere (Kaji delivers him to Gendo in that ep.) What was really in T-3 was Lilith.
-The "Angels" are actually called "Shito" in Japan, which more closely resembles "prophet" or "messenger"
-Angels are the children of Adam, who ate from the Tree of Life. Humans, the Lilim, are the children of Lilith, who ate from the Tree of Wisdom.
-Rei produced the AT field so easily because she more or less IS an Angel (part Yui, part Lilith clone)
-Theory: I think the "Angels" in Eva were all Fallen, and wished to create the Third Impact as a way to return to Heaven. Just a theory.
-Angels ARE human. In ep. 6 I think, when Ritsuko is studying the 5th Angel, she notes that they are genetically 98 or 99 percent identical to humans.
-There were several ways to cause the Third Impact, actually. Keele's plan involved Unit 01, Adam, and the Lance. Gendo's involved Rei, Lilith, and possibly the Lance. The Angels involved any one angel and Adam.
-AT fields are what bind us in our form. When the 3rd Impact occurs, all AT fields are permanently dissipated, and all beings merge into one.

Submitted by: The Little One- I haven't read everything before I wrote this, so I may be repaeting what other people said. 'Angels' are not messengers from god. They are similar creatures as us. We can clearly see that in Tabris, or Kaworu. We and the angels are the same kind since we both came from Adam. The question is: Where the hell did Adam come from in the first place?

Submitted by: Seta- Man is the last angel. It all makes sense. We can be loving, destructive, abusive, caring...like good ol' Fuyutsuki said we ate the tree of wisdom, while they ate the tree of life. Heck, their patterns are (and I am being exact) 99.89% humanly. And can it be true that they felt Adam in Tokyo-3? Maybe. Or they could've felt the love of a mother, Lillith. Since they are practically human, they could've wnated a mother's love.


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