2004 Jazziz interview
I remember hearing Van Morrison in concert at the New Orleans Jazz And Heritage Festival a few years back. It was one of the evening events, away from the racetrack packed with competing shows. B.B. King played the first half. Then out came Morrison, grunting and articulating and balancing his acoustic guitar on his belly for a few songs. And growing more annoyed and clipped with each tune. Pity the sound man. He’d screwed up. The show was past the point of saving. Morrison turned into an angry gnome of a man, and walked off the stage quickly. But at other times, on other gigs, Morrison was relaxed and giving. He was the fire-breathing dragon spitting out, say, “Wild Night” or the silk-throated poet behind “Into the Mystic.” Don’t confuse Morrison’s grousing or even his shunning of audiences with any rock-star attitude. He might just as easily be compared to Abbey Lincoln: angry when things go awry because he knows how delicate a mood can be and how fragile even the sturdiest blues are. And his phrasing isn’t far from hers, either. Born in Belfast in 1945, Morrison wasn’t really part of any British invasion. In fact, his leanings in jazz and American folk music placed him somewhat at odds with what the Beatles wrought. Director Mike Figgis’ documentary Red, White, and Blues — among those produced last year for Martin Scorsese’s PBS series, The Blues — featured Morrison and cronies reminiscing about their musical roots in England and Ireland, and about the 1950s skiffle scene. When Morrison’s latest CD, What's Wrong With This Picture? turned up on the venerable jazz imprint Blue Note, an elegant logic seemed to be at work. No rock star, hippie, mystic, guru — just a singer and songwriter who has always swung. Although an ocean apart during the following e-mail exchange — he in Dublin, I in Brooklyn — Morrison was frank about which labels fit and which don’t, as well as about the music that inspires him most. Larry Blumenfeld: Mike Figgis’ recent film for Martin Scorsese’s PBS The Blues series was very interesting. It makes those recording sessions appear as great fun. Were they? Van Morrison: Yes, it was very interesting, and we had fun that afternoon. It was great to work with Jeff Beck; it made me realize what a good guitar player he is. I also really enjoyed trading vocals with Tom Jones. LB: In the film, you talk a lot about the UK skiffle scene. How would you define this movement, and what did it mean to you as a developing musician? VM: Skiffle was a name that was attached to what was, in essence, American folk music. In fact, it was mainly folk and blues music with a beat. Lonnie Donegan said that skiffle music is folk music with a jazz beat. Skiffle was basically a definition of blues featuring a washboard and acoustic instruments. It encompassed blues, with elements of folk, jazz, and, at times, American country-and-western music. As a developing musician, skiffle became a platform for me to start playing music. I was already into the songs of Leadbelly, Lightin’ Hopkins, and people like Josh White, Sonny Terry, and Brownie McGhee. I was studying The Alan Lomax Folk Guitar Book and the specific guitar style of The Carter Family. So, it became apparent that the next piece of the puzzle for me was to have a skiffle group. Having my own skiffle band would enable me to perform the type of music that I was already looking to and very interested in. Even today, skiffle is a defining part of my music. If I get the opportunity to just have a jam, skiffle is what I love to play. LB: What heroes of skiffle do you think have been ignored in the U.S.? VM: In addition to [singer, guitarist, and banjoist] Lonnie Donegan, other skiffle people that I can think of are Ken Colyer, one of the originators of the skiffle sessions, and Chris Barber. A typical Ken Colyer concert would consist of his band playing jazz and New Orleans Dixieland music. Then, in the middle of a concert, they would break down the band and have a skiffle session. Chris Barber would probably play bass, Ken Colyer would play guitar, Lonnie Donegan would play banjo, and Bill Colyer — Ken’s brother —would play washboard. Under this arrangement, they would then play about four skiffle songs before returning to playing jazz. Chris Barber was a forerunner in bringing to Europe the musicians Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Muddy Waters, Big Bill Broonzy, and the gospel singer Sister Rosetta Tharpe. I recall skiffle players such as the singer Dickie Bishop. There was also an American guy living in England, Johnny Duncan, who played a more country-oriented style of skiffle, doing some great versions of Jimmie Rodgers songs. In fact, he replaced Lonnie Donegan when he left The Chris Barber Band. Ottilie Patterson, the first-ever Irish blues singer, was also with The Chris Barber Band during that period. I don’t know if she has been ignored in the U.S. though, because I remember hearing her on a radio station when I was in America years ago. LB: Does Blue Note Records’ legacy hold any special appeal to you? VM: I feel like they have a great history of jazz- and blues-related music, and that’s what’s appealing for me. My current album incorporates a range of styles. It has a strong jazz leaning, which is more representative of where I am at live and in my overall musical picture. LB: On the new CD, the lyrics of “Goldfish Bowl” imply that you resent being called a “rock” musician. Is that so? VM: What the people who call me that don’t get is that there is no singer in rock that has got my type of phrasing. My vocal phrasing as a singer has nothing to do with rock. It derives from my absorption of the jazz, blues, soul, gospel, and other esoteric musical influences. However, I may have worked with a few rock musicians over the years, but that is the only connection. LB: The word “jazz” is a confusing one for some Americans. What does “jazz tradition” mean to you? VM: To me, the jazz tradition is very broad. It ranges from New Orleans jazz right through to current types of blues. So, for me, jazz means music that is improvised and spontaneous, with jazz-type phrasing and interplay. I would also see jazz as being pinned down by the blues. It could be New Orleans blues, Chicago blues, or Delta blues. I would also see jazz as incorporating gospel and soul music and musicians like Jelly Roll Morton, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong, Louis Prima, James Brown, Solomon Burke, Bobby “Blue” Bland, and Sam Cooke. I’m still really inspired by singers like Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross. I see Jon Hendricks as being one of the most innovative vocalists to ever exist. Both Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross have got amazing prowess in technique and instinct as vocalists. Other musicians who still inspire are Freddie Hubbard, Mose Allison, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, and John McLaughlin. LB: There’s a good deal of your own alto sax playing on the new recording. Are there specific horn players that have inspired you? VM: There was a large cross-section of influences that inspired me to go out and buy a saxophone and take lessons. These influences would have ranged from Fats Domino’s band to the saxophone player Clifford Scott, who played with Bill Doggett; to Fathead Newman, the tenor saxophonist with Ray Charles; the Jimmy Guiffre Trio; Louis Jordan; and Cleanhead Vinson. When I started studying tenor saxophone as a kid in Belfast, I did so with a guy named George Cassidy, who was also a big inspiration. He was a great jazz player whose main influence was Lester Young. LB: Much was made in the press decades ago about your anxiety or stage fright. Was there any truth to that? VM: There was some truth in that way back. It’s funny how this information gets recycled. This was in the press over 30 years ago, but to my knowledge, there hasn’t been anything since. I hadn’t ever played a concert before I went to America as a solo artist in the late ’60s. Before that I had only played in bands and groups that played in smaller venues. Even when I had played in America with the group Them earlier in the ’60s, we primarily played in smaller venues. When I started off working as a musician, my early gigs were usually in a dance hall, a club, or a similar environment. In these venues the audiences were let up to the front of the stage. So it was really strange for me when I started to play concerts in America where the audiences were all sitting down. That was one aspect of it. The other aspect of it was that in America, when I went solo, I was sometimes playing huge places that I didn’t think that I should be playing. Large venues and large (sit-down) audiences did not suit my performing and my low-key approach. So those were definitely two problems that arose way back then. Like I said though, that was over 30 years ago. LB: In old interviews, you’ve been quoted as saying that Irish musicians were in some ways more American than their U.K. counterparts. What did you mean by that? VM: When I was growing up in Belfast, I came across musicians and people that had an assortment of American music. Later on, when I was talking to various people, including Paul Jones from The Blues Band, I was informed that there wasn’t really that kind of tradition in England during the period I’m talking about — the ’50s and the early ’60s. That’s one aspect of it. The other aspect of it was that country-and-western music was also big in Ireland. We also had our own brand of music called country-and-Irish that also made a big contribution to my musical development. LB: How would you describe the difference between Irish and British musicians? VM: I don’t think that there is anything different between any nationalities depending on the genre of music. There’s not really any major difference between Irish and British musicians. The only difference I would find between the two would be that the Irish musicians tend to have more musical depth and are more soulful. They would also tend to be more prone to melancholia, especially the Irish traditional players. In general, Irish musicians are inclined to drink more, perhaps, than their English counterparts. LB: You’ve been famously reticent to speak to the press. Do you see any value to music criticism? VM: That question derives from misinformation. I have been in the music business for 40 years, and spanning that period I have done an enormous amount of interviews. I have spoken to the press on many, many occasions. As anyone who surfs on the Net would know, there are numerous interviews of mine out there on various unauthorized websites. Yes, I do see value in music criticism. Most of the criticism I have received over the years has been very good. Naturally, there have been a few critics that have been more negative. There have also been those that try to write about my music without understanding my origins. But, in general, I think I have — as far as my music goes, anyway — been treated very well by the press and the critics. LB: Have you heard Cassandra Wilson’s version of “Tupelo Honey”? Are there particular covers of your tunes that you’ve especially appreciated? VM: Yes, I have heard Cassandra’s version of “Tupelo Honey” and I like it very much. She is doing something different with the song, which I think is good. More recently I’ve liked Solomon Burke’s covers of my songs “Fast Train” and “Only a Dream,” both of which I recorded last year on my album Down the Road. I also like a version of “Moondance” that was done by Grady Tate years ago. Quite a number of people have recorded “Moondance;” there are some great versions including Bobby McFerrin’s. I also like Little Milton’s version of a song of mine that I have recorded but haven’t released entitled “We’re Gonna Make It.” In fact, I like most of the covers that have been recorded of my songs, and I am lucky to have some great covers. There is a big lineup, but others that spring to mind presently are John Lee Hooker’s “The Healing Game” and Freddie Scott’s version of “He Ain’t Give You None”. Tom Jones has recorded some great versions of my songs. Ben E. King did a magnificent version of “Into the Mystic”; so did Esther Phillips, and Joe Cocker. Johnny Rivers did a great version of “Slim Slow Slider.” I really liked Rod Stewart’s version of “Have I Told You Lately That I Love You.” My daughter Shana recorded a version of “Sometimes We Cry” that I like, and Joe Louis Walker’s version of “Sweet Thing” I really like. Jeff Buckley did a version of “The Way Young Lovers Do” and this new group, Starsailor, did a good version of that one, too. Finally, John Lee Hooker’s version of “T.B. Sheets” is very memorable, and I really like Brendan Boyer’s version of “Bright Side of the Road.” LB: Are there any musicians that you wish you’d had — or will have — the opportunity to make music with? VM: I would like to do some more work with Ray Charles, Solomon Burke, Bobby Bland, and Sam Buttera. I would love the opportunity to work with James Brown. He’s fantastic. Also, I would love to work with Jon Hendricks and Freddie Hubbard. Maybe these guys will read this piece and it might even happen! Part of the van-the-man.info unofficial website |