You say, "Okay. Can anyone tell me what combat is?"
Tiralyn raises her hand.
You say, "Okay, Tira."
Kalenar says, "Fighting, war, a brawl, deadly and dangerous, and fun
sometimes."
Kalenar says, "That was typed fore she rose her hand, sorry."
Tiralyn stands up and pushes her glasses up her nose.. "Well it is an
intricate balance of +ooc coding and rp, hopefully based in more of the IC
than in the +ooc. Through rping +training (both which contain IC and ooc
elements if done CORRECTLY) you can boost your stats in your desired
weapon, which will make you more effective on the battlefield. :)
Rorgan chuckles, "Okay, you've both got a goodly part of it, but I was
looking for a broader definition at this point. I define combat as any
situation in which your character has a chance to physically affect and/or
injure another character."
Rorgan grins, "Do you all buy that definition of combat?"
Tamran nods
Nilgaer says, "I dunno"
Rorgan grins, "Okay, let me illustrate the point (with hopefully a
positive example)..."
Mardamir says, "Well, among a few other things, your character also
has an equal chance at being physically affected and/or injured"
You say, "My character is standing on a table in a bar/tavern and
falls off, right into a crowd of people gathered around. By my definition
above, the 'rules of combat' which we'll get into in a bit would apply,
wouldn't they?"
Rorgan nods to Kel, "This is also a very important point. :)"
Kalenar nods. "yes.
You say, "Nilgaer?"
Ghaztbrog nods.
Nilgaer says, "yes?"
You say, "Did that illustration help clear things up a bit?"
Nilgaer nods. "That it did."
Rorgan grins, "I think it's a particularly good illustration in that
it shows a situation where the 'rules of combat' would apply, but there
wouldn't really be any need to rely on the coded combat system."
Ghaztbrog says, "Unless one of your 'buddies' was playing with a nasty
dagger at the time ;)"
Kalenar nods. "Eventhen, would you?
Ghaztbrog says, "You can choose to do CS or RP in that case. It'd
prolly be one that's better for RP :)"
Adramir says, "RP is always better than CS."
You say, "There is very little in the way of code that would even
begin to approximate what could happen in a situation like that, so RP
would probably be better suited to deal with it."
Ninvainiel says, "RP is NOT always better than CS."
Adramir says, "Yes, it is."
Ninvainiel apologizes for interrupting.
Adramir says, "Unless you are dealing with a twink. In which case, I
would avoid the combat. :)"
Ghaztbrog says, "RP is preferable, however, twinks aren't some rare
entity."
Ninvainiel points out that the CS includes RP. It enhances RP. If you are
not entirely certain what the outcome of a fight will be, the CS can be a
very good guide for your RP.
Rorgan grins, "RPing combat without the Combat Code would be an ideal
to try for. Unfortunately, sometimes it's really hard to decide or to
negotiate the outcome of an encounter beforehand."
You say, "But we're getting ahead of ourselves. :)"
Adramir says, "CS dictates combat and can't possibly deal with the
many intricacies of combat."
Ghaztbrog says, "CS -can- be used solely as a guide."
Kalenar Looks at Rorgan. "Shall we stop this side track, and return to
the class?"
Rorgan grins, "Okay, going back to what we were talking about... I
described a situation that would be better solved through RP than the use
of the code we have here on Elendor. What I'd like to know is if anyone
here thinks that the combat code could be used as a substitute for
RP?"
Kalenar shakes his head. "But perhaps, as Ghax sayes, use cs as a
guide to the RP?
You say, "It can't. RP is always the most important part of any
encounter, whether the encounter follows the 'rules of combat' or not. And
now that I keep referring to them, let's talk about the rules of combat.
Anyone have and idea what I would mean by the 'rules of combat' when I
speak of RP?"
Kalenar Smiles. "Take turns, each time Poseing a move or moves you do.
Rorgan nods, "Good. That's one -- everyone should get a fair chance to
react/act before the scene moves on."
You say, "Anyone else?"
Ghaztbrog says, "Ooooh, oooooh!"
You say, "Okay, Ghazt. :)"
Ghaztbrog says, "Never pose the opponents
reaction/movement/bloodspilling :)"
You say, "Okay, that's a good one -- never (ever ever under any
circumstances) pose directly affecting another character without their
prior permission."
You say, "Care to give us a negative example (something NOT to
do)?"
Nilgaer says, "That works for Rp combat. The help files point out that
you pose once before the attack an and once after with the CS to pose your
hit. Not necessarily the target's movement but the fact that you hit, how
bad, etc... I think"
Kalenar sits, his mouth silant for a change.
You say, "The help files are wrong in that regard, Nilgaer."
Ghaztbrog says, "Nope on the second fact Nil."
Nilgaer checks what his second fact was and nods. "Okee"
You say, "We'll get to that when we get to talking about RP with the
combat system. Right now we're still on the general rules that can apply to
any combat. :)"
You say, "Anyone want to give me an example of what NOT to pose in a
combat situation?"
Nilgaer could.
Rorgan nods, "Go for it." :)
Nilgaer attacks Rorgan swinging his greatsword down in an arc. Rorgan is
unable to evde the blow and his head is chopped off with a loud *THUNK*
Nilgaer is good at those.
Rorgan chuckles, "Yes, that's definitely a negative example. Anyone
care to tell us why?"
Nilgaer could.
Rorgan nods, "Go ahead, Nils. :)
Ghaztbrog says, "We want Rorgan to feel a more painful death? ;)"
Nilgaer says, "I practically moved for you when I said you were unable
to evade the blow, and posed the damage, as we established earlier was
wrong, with your head falling off. Not to mention it just bit."
Rorgan nods, "Well, we're not going to comment on style tonight. Just
content." :)
You say, "And you are correct. Your pose acted for me and also
dictated the results. Can you make a good example, too?"
You say, "Or fix it so it follows the rules we've got so far?"
Nilgaer peers up at it. "I can sure give it a shot... would be shorter
than it already is."
Taking a leaping step forwards Nilgaer swings his greatsword down in a arc,
attempting to take off Rorgan's head.
Rorgan nods, "Okay. That one fits the rules. Anyone else have any more
rules of combat?"
Kalenar thinks. "You can not use a weapon you don't have?
Ghaztbrog says, "Don't do too many things in a pose... Don't RP doing
things you physically can't..."
You say, "Okay, you're on a good line of thought there, Kal. Let's
generalize it a bit more: Only use what's available to you ICly." You
say, "And you, too, Ghazt."
You say, "Other players are constantly telling me that Humans are easy
to RP, because for the most part, we're all humans in real life, and we should
have a pretty good idea how high and how far a human can jump, or how fast
one could run, etc."
You say, "That leaves us, as a human culture, with next to no excuse
for having our characters do things that they just wouldn't be able to do
in real life. There are two basic names for doing this, despite the fact
that we /should/ know better: tanking and twinking."
Kalenar nods, and raises his hand.
You say, "Tanking is continuing to fight without RPing appropriate
wounds. Twinking can be a number of things, among them doing things that
your character wouldn't be able to do, or abusing the combat code, or other
things that we will undoubtedly get into later. Yes, Kal?"
Kalenar Smiles. "That answers it. I was gonna ask the differance.
Rorgan nods, "Tanking specifically has to do with how well you take
(RP-wise) the wounds given to you by the CS, or in strictly RP combat, how
often you actually take wounds and how they affect your character in
subsequent poses."
You say, "Any more rules of combat we need to cover? We have:
1) Allow everyone involved to have a fair turn.
2) NEVER pose actions that affect another character without first obtaining
permission.
3) Only use what's available to you ICly (including the physical attributes
of your character).
4) Don't do too many things in a pose."
Kalenar shakes his head. "Not I.
Nilgaer says, "Nor I"
Rorgan grins, "What do you think Ghaz meant by saying 'Don't do too
many things in a pose'?"
Nilgaer could give an example, though Ghaz pretty much summed it up in what
he said.
Kalenar nods. "only one move an attack.
You say, "Okay, just to illustrate the point of #4 above: I'm using my
bow to shoot at someone from behind the front lines. I decide to switch to
my sword and attack someone in hand to hand combat. We're all in the same
room, so I should be able to drop the bow, run a hundred yards, and smack
the foo' all in one pose, right?"
Nilgaer says, "Nah.. I'd say drop the bow and draw your sword.. MAYBE
begin running..."
Rorgan nods, "Good answer." :)
Nilgaer says, "Would readying your sword take up your CS turn
anyway?"
You say, "No."
Nilgaer nods and wasn't sure on that point.
Kalenar says, "This is the RP anyway, not the CS, right?"
You say, "The rules I've outlined have to do with combat in either
scenario: RP-only or CS. Now, I want to deal with a few things along the
lines of etiquette in combat before we continue."
You say, "#1) ALWAYS page someone before you attack them, RP or CS.
Not just to obtain their permission, but that's the primary reason.
#2) BEFORE combat starts is the time to work out the 'stakes'. Is anyone
using a virtual alt?
Will it be CS or RP-only? Will there be any character deaths (i.e. free
flees)? It's best to have all the details possible worked out ahead of
time. Even down to who the ultimate winner of the combat will be, sometimes
(and especially in RP combat -- sometimes you have to do what Bzjokze and I
did last year and just agree that you'll beat each other senseless and
mutually crawl back to your own lines)."
Kalenar nods.
Thoras says, "ok"
You say, "These things are almost important enough to be rules of
combat, but they specifically refer to combat with weapons and combat that
occurs with 'enemy' cultures."
Nilgaer says, "But wouldnt' that take part of the spontaneity away
from it? In my experience spontaneity is part of what makes the MUSH fun..
otherwise one might as well be an actor in a playhouse."
Rorgan nods, "Yes, it can, and that's where the CS comes in. The CS is
enforced sponteneity."
You say, "It's a TOOL to be used to assist you in RP."
Ghaztbrog says, "Determining the winner might, free flees, free loots,
and so on do not however."
Rorgan nods, "Yeah, I was thinking that he was specifically addressing
knowing ahead of time who the winner is."
Nilgaer nods.
Rorgan grins, "The other things are best to work out ahead of time,
because they're almost all OOC considerations anyway."
Nilgaer says, "alright, continue please."
You say, "Now, the thing with every tool is that it has its specific
purpose and when you try to use it for other things, it doesn't always work
so good."
Thoras says, "I used to page someone if I would do something really
inflicting to an opponent, that is usually a good thing, a for permission and
B so they know how to respond"
You say, "We've already had an example of a situation where the CS
isn't the best tool for the job. Can anyone give me a situation where the
CS is a good tool?"
Kalenar thinks. "In a war? Say five people on each side come together.
Rorgan grins, "That can get awfully spammy, but more often than not,
that's where you'll see the CS used in Gondor."
You say, "Even if the odds aren't even, or especially so."
Thoras says, "I was about to say that"
Thoras says, "when you both cannot agree on RP'd combat"
Nilgaer almost said that. "But in those cases you coudl call in an
Arb."
You say, "If three Mordain Snagas caught Rorgan out in the forest,
they'd probably try to claim that they would kill him outright. I'd have to
dissagree with them, of course, and we'd be left with using the combat
system to decide, just as Thoras says. :)"
"Now, CS-wise, being a +trainer, I could probably take out 3 snagas,
depending on how all the bonuses worked out. But would me using the fact
that they are +titled SNAGA be a good way for me to decide whether or not
to engage them in combat in the first place?""
Nilgaer says, "That'd be using OOC information ICly"
Ghaztbrog says, "You only call an arb if you're having a real problem
delegating if something was possible or not and and the contestants
continue to aruge... and only if its a multicultural issue."
Kalenar Agrees with nil
Rorgan nods, "If it's an issue within your culture, you should allow
an LA to settle it.
Ghaztbrog says, "And if there aren't any LAs, go to a +helper :)"
Ghaztbrog says, "Prolly +trainer before +helper actually."
You say, "And in multi-cultural 'engagements', more often than not,
you will have an OOC leader who can reach some sort of compromise with the
OOC leaders on the other side of things. Usually by the time someone is far
enough along that they're comfortable being an OOC leader in an engagement,
they've got RL friends on the other side, and it's a lot easier to work
things out among friends than to call in a stranger (though, it's sometimes
necessary)."
Rorgan grins, "Now, returning to the previous thread. Using their
+title to determine whether or not I am going to fight them is using OOC
knowledge ICly. And that's a bad thing, right?"
Kalenar says, "Right, I would think."
Nilgaer says, "Noooo!"
Rorgan nods, "It's an abuse, but a very common one."
Nilgaer says, "That was sarcasm by the way. Or an attempt at it."
Ghaztbrog doubts 3 snaga would ICly try to take you :)
Thoras says, "I would say it's wrong"
Rorgan chuckles at Ghaz, "Do I have a reputation over there,
too?" ;)
Rorgan nods, "Anyhow, let's say that Rorgan and the 3 Snagas are all a
bit bloodthirsty or whatever and it actually develops into a CS fight
(since no one can agree on who should walk away)."
You say, "Let's say that it's night, in Mordor, and Rorgan is taking a
serious beating from these three guys... How the heck do I get my character
out of the room before he dies?"
Nilgaer says, "+flee"
Thoras says, "FLEE"
Rorgan grins, "Thoras got it. Which direction should Rorgan
flee?"
Rorgan grins, "The direction he came from or whatever direction is the
most logical for the scene."
Nilgaer says, "Opposite of them? And back towards fellow humans."
Thoras says, "most logical"
Kalenar says, "ya, most logical for the sceen."
You say, "So let's say that the exit that Rorgan is ICly closest to
(and the Orcs are ICly furthest from) is East. What would I type to flee
from them?"
Kalenar Raises his hand, mostly as a guess.
You say, "Go for it Kal."
Kalenar says, "+flee east?"
You say, "FLEE EAST FROM "
You say, "Who's name should I use in there?"
Thoras says, "room name"
You say, "Nope."
Thoras says, "errk one of the Snaga"
Nilgaer just looked it up. "I would say the weakest snaga..."
You say, "The most proper way would be to flee East from whomever
immediately follows you in the turn sequence."
You say, "As long as that person's character is attacking you, that
is."
You say, "Note, though, that turn sequence isn't usually a formal
thing."
Kalenar nods.
You say, "Okay. Who wants to tell me how to attack someone with the
CS?"
Thoras says, "consider kill "
Nilgaer could.
Rorgan nods, "Go for it, Nils."
Nilgaer says, "+attack ?"
Nilgaer says, "or jsut attack?"
Kalenar says, "Or ATTACK name"
You say, "Just attack. No +."
Nilgaer always got the + and reg. commands confused.
Thoras nods
Kalenar says, "So, are there not 2 other commands?"
You say, "Now, the Elendor combat system has attack weighting. I'm
only going to touch on this briefly, though."
You say, "The weights are 0-10. 1-9 are considered normal attacks.
ATTACK without specifying a weight is identical to saying ATTACK/5 .
0 is a special weight and indicates an intentional miss. And a 10 is a
special weight that always grants you a hit."
Thoras nods
Nilgaer says, "Deosn't 10 leave you somewhat mor eopen for a counter
attack though?"
Nilgaer says, "meaning they can inflict more damage..."
You say, "Now, the most often asked question is whether or not attack
weighting directly affects the damage you do. The answer to that is no. It
only affects your chance to hit. Numbers less than five decrease your
chance to hit, and numbers above 5 increase your chance to hit. Any
increase in chance to hit reduces the chances you have of defending against
the next attack(s) against you (until you attack again) and any decrease in
chance to hit increases your defensive capabilities."
You say, "There is a certain chance that the return attack against a
/10 weight will be a critical hit, in other words, a blow that can do up to
half your ORIGINAL hit points in one blow."
You say, "There are some more commands in the CS. Name them."
Kalenar says, "Dodge?"
Rorgan shakes his head, "Nope. No dodge command." You say,
"Your dodging ability is figured in when someone attacks you."
Nilgaer says, "+wear?"
You say, "SHOOT would be one, but I'm thinking of a few more. Yes.
+wear, +wield -- the equipment commands. There are also character commands.
Anyone know them?"
You say, "+hp, +cstats, +training, +xtraining."
Thoras says, "yeah hang on let me list them"
Rorgan keeps it moving for those who are running short on time.
You say, "There may be more. The point here is not to actually cover
every one of them in depth -- that's what you have to read the help files
for."
Thoras says, "yeah"
Kalenar nods. "Now, how do we RP CS combat?
You say, "RPing CS combat is a simple sequence of events. In the most
simplistic sence it follows through these steps:
1) Someone poses an attack.
2) ATTACK command is used. CS posts result.
3) Defender poses reaction to attack, according to what the CS posted, and
then poses an attack in return (if he is ICly able).
Repeat process.
And before I call it a night for actual teaching (I need to take a break
for a few minutes, and then I'll open it up to questions), I'd just like to
give you guys my 'secret' to good combat RP: keep it real. No comic-book or
movie stunts."
You say, "Actually it bounces back and forth between 2 and 3 after the
first time 3 is passed."
You say, "The important thing to remember is that using the CS on
Elendor is considered a priveledge and the priveledge can be revoked."
Thoras says, "I know"
Kalenar nods. "I understand. I do not think I will need to have it so,
though. I just want it in case.
Kalenar says, "I do not think IC battle is commen, but I'm probably
wrong."
Rorgan nods, "Like I said, the CS is a tool you can use to determine a
spontaneous outcome to a fight. Some people really like it and some don't.
Argamir likes it
You say, "And IC battle, in Gondor, tends to be a way of life."
You say, "Especially for those in the military professions."
Thoras doesn't he enjoys RP'ed better
You say, "We're just having a brief time of peace, due to the
inactivity in other cultures during the summer."
Kalenar Laughs. "THats why I needed to be CSed, when possible. I am
pationt.
You say, "Now, while I locate my test, do you guys have any specific
questions?"
Nilgaer says, "I may.. is combat between inanimate object Rped or is
there system for that as well? For instance, a ship battle with
catapults.""
You say, "That is RPed. There was talk at one time of a ship to ship
combat system, but it's never been coded that I know of."
Nilgaer nods. "And beasts? They essentially work the same as fighting
a character?
Thoras says, "Aye"
Rorgan nods, "Generally, yes. Most of the time there will be a
controller running a beast, though a beast is also capable of entering
combat as an automaton."
Nilgaer says, "How complicated is their programming as an automaton..
I'd guess.. attack until reaching a certain level of HP then attempt to
flee?"
You say, "Sometimes. Some of them attack until they die and then reset
themselves."
Nilgaer says, "Do seige engines have coded attacks?"
Rorgan shakes his head, "Seige engines are RPed as well."
You say, "We rarely use seige engines, though."
Nilgaer nods. "Alright.. I think that about covers it."
Thoras says, "cool"
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