[20:05] okay here goes with a little cut and paste work not alot different but since there is a few new faces I will do it anyway
[20:06] -The Moderators/Facilitators will start out with a general background or storey,
[20:06] Consider it a This could happen to you kind of thing.
[20:06] -At the end of this discussion /storey the moderators will ask a few general questions
[20:06] and open things up for discussion.
[20:06] - To facilitate equal share the moderators will ask that you signify that you have
[20:06] some input by simply doing a ! in channel. The moderators will call you in
[20:06] turn. Please do End! or some other way to signify you have finished your thought.
[20:06] -To keep things on track expect that you may get summarized and discussion
[20:06] moved on to a different topic area. Please do not feel you are not important or
[20:06] your input is not important.
[20:07] It is just for the sake of time, since we are somewhat
[20:07] limited in time and must keep the discussion going. If this topic has enough
[20:07] interest it can be covered again later.
[20:07] -At the end of the summary there will be some links that are useful and
[20:07] Informative as well.
[20:07] - Copies of this discussion will be made available with out the names of all
[20:07] parties for the sake of safety and security.
[20:07] I know that is alot of text so I will let every look at that a sec
[20:08] are we ready for the background and intro
[20:09] -Many old and new to D/s, BDSM, S/M are faced with something that they may or
[20:09] may not be familiar with. How do you decided what types of activities to
[20:09] partake in? As a general rule I will call this play negotiations. Eseesntially
[20:09] how do you set your limites or make your mutual play wish list.
[20:09] I will use Jack (Dom) and Jill(sub) since I am not creative enough to create new names
[20:10] Jack and Jill are new to each other and met from online and have been seeing each
[20:10] other rl for sometime now and are ready to engage in some play activities.
[20:10] so my question to you all is : Okay what do you think is the first thing that they should do?
[20:11] !
[20:11] key.. i think is know who they really are
[20:11] sub1 please
[20:11] addy .and such..
[20:11] some form of bdsm check list to start with
[20:11] end
[20:12] !
[20:12] very good sub1
[20:12] sub3 please and yes little one but this assumes they already did that
[20:12] To facilitate equal share the moderators will ask that you signify that you have some input by simply doing a ! in channel. The moderators will call you in turn. Please do End! or some other way to signify you have finished your thought.
[20:13] sub3 please
[20:13] since the scenario is they have known each other on-line and been seeing each other RL....they should have been having some discussions prior to this about what they do and don't like....
[20:13] i think they should set up safety things !
[20:13] it would be prudent to have a sit down...not Dom/sub....but as two people to seriously discuss experiences, do's/don'ts
[20:13] very good sub3 but how in depth were those discussions?
[20:14] sub2 please type ! if you wish to speak you will be called on when its your turn
[20:14] and get more detailed about what they would like to see in a scene and also any particular health concerns
[20:14] End!
[20:15] Very good sub3 what else would be considered and yes little one safeties are part of that
[20:15] what they have and have not done and what they want to do and safetys are all important
[20:15] anything else
[20:15] !
[20:15] sub4 please
[20:16] what about limits, as a new person myself i was very honest with my Master as to what level of experience i had...
[20:17] when He first played with me...there was a discussions of marks....where they would be located, to level i should expect to have them...
[20:17] !
[20:18] !
[20:18] and He made sure i understood how to use my safeword....since i really did not know how i would react....He made sure i understood that while He was learning me...it was important to use my safeword if things got to be too much for me.!
[20:18] very good so limits should be discussed and revised as both participants expierences grow and safties/safe words...anything else sub4
[20:19] no, Sir...that is all
[20:19] sub3 please then .... good job sub4
[20:19] * sub5 smiles to sub3
[20:19] sub3 thinks its important that during these discussions
[20:19] the playing field be leveled....while sub3 is very definitely sub through and through
[20:20] when it is time to negotiate a scene...both Dom and sub need to step back and level the playing field....
[20:20] so that the sub doesn't feel they must submit to what the Dom desires...or the Dom feel they can push the sub to do what they want
[20:20] it isn't about topping from the bottom...but about being real...
[20:21] and during negotiations it should not be about Dom/sub....but about 2 people discussing their concerns and desires
[20:21] End!
[20:21] !
[20:21] yes very valid it is about both....seek a mutual understanding and are doing it to a mutual benefit...and both parties should be interested in what works for both...not just one or the other or the negotiation is a failure
[20:21] Dom3 please
[20:22] !
[20:22] Oh I am sorry I missed you Dom2 after Dom3 is done please
[20:23] np
[20:23] going a bit along with sub3 comments on taking the step back, sometimes moving it to a differtn place or space if it is on line to talk about it.. from a Dom point of view I find it helps to lay out the toys at a party and say ok this is what I have and waht I will be using.. you have oubjefciton to x Toy tool or things we go from there and go on.. try to keep thigns open from top to bottom and vises fresa.. if
[20:23] if you have to move it else where to talk safly about it.. :)
[20:23] end !
[20:24] good idea one I had not considered
[20:24] !
[20:24] Dom2 please
[20:25] well, both should be sure of their on limits before attempting to negociate...
[20:25] and also be completely honest with themselves and each other
[20:25] end!
[20:26] very true Dom2 but what if they don't know if everything is a limit
[20:26] !
[20:26] what if their expierence level is limited?
[20:26] !
[20:26] sub4 please
[20:26] To facilitate equal share the moderators will ask that you signify that you have some input by simply doing a ! in channel. The moderators will call you in turn. Please do End! or some other way to signify you have finished your thought.
[20:26] i agree to all the other areas of discussion and negotiation... just one other topic of discussion that came to my mind (mainly cuz it's a huge concern to a woman over *my* age not to have an oooops happen)..... birth control and who is going to take responsibility for that.
[20:27] LOL valid point
[20:27] =)
[20:27] sub2 please
[20:27] Yes sub4 !!
[20:28] i think you have a great question there for i dont know all my limits.. should i be tryingto figure that out or is that somthing that is open to explore first?
[20:28] good point sub2
[20:28] end!
[20:28] !
[20:29] so you have things you are pretty sure you dont want to do....I call them Hard limits, others you are not sure they might be called soft limits...honest talks help with that
[20:29] sub3 please
[20:29] perhaps describe things as hard limits and soft limits....hard limits (absolutely don't go there), soft limits (that really scares me, but under the right circumstances might be willing to try it)
[20:29] you stole sub3's thunder
[20:29] sorry
[20:29] * sub4 giggles
[20:29] I will not interject as much next time
[20:29] six months ago sub3 would have told you...electric play was a hard limit for her....
[20:30] :)
[20:30] however, she kept herself open to new things, at in a safe environment was introduced to the violet wand...and its a favorite play toy now
[20:30] but sub3 was upfront....electric scared her...she hid from it....
[20:30] what you mean I am not the faviort toy anymore ;) sorry
[20:31] lol Dom3
[20:31] but she trusted her Dom to expose her to new things in a safe way....
[20:31] you two had too much fun last weekend
[20:31] ")
[20:31] lol...is there such a thing Dom3?
[20:31] ")
[20:31] lol...is there such a thing Dom3?
[20:31] that is a good way to go about it...and discussing it up front helps in those circumstances because as you grow you learn
[20:31] but that's because she has played with them over time....and learned to trust more
[20:31] nope there alway room for more
[20:31] !End
[20:31] Dom2 please
[20:33] I have only been in this a shot time and my sub had the more experience so when we first started I had to learn to get over a few concerns...
[20:34] but since then my level has grown in bounds ...
[20:35] so your negoticiations are pertenant and learning times for both
[20:35] end!
[20:35] I can understand that Dom2 I was that way at first at well...but I gained confidence along the way...many think the Dom has to be the most expierenced person.
[20:35] !
[20:35] Not always true
[20:35] Dom4 please
[20:35] !
[20:36] Dom2 thankl you for saying that....I also are fairly new to this....I am glad now it is easier to make sure I learn what My limits will be beyond the ones that I think I know about
[20:36] end!
[20:36] !
[20:36] Very good
[20:36] welcome
[20:36] Domme1 please
[20:37] !
[20:37] !
[20:37] Having met a new sub recently here... I was very nervous going into it as he had about 3 or 4 years more experience than I. And I agree... the Dominant shoulDom1't have to be more experienced. What I found helpful (besides the discussions we've had), was opening Myself up to his suggestions.
[20:38] I think the submissives should be very open about what they want and need, and not just leave it up to the Dominant to guess.. or suss it out.
[20:38] We've found that the more open and explicit the communication, the better the play times turn out to be.
[20:38] !End
[20:39] Most excellent point I have yet to find that ESP thing work for me.
[20:39] sub6 please
[20:40] i dont know if i really should do this in this form, but i missed most of the conversation but am interested. Could i please get a copy of a log after the conversation is done?
[20:40] yes it will be made avail sub6
[20:40] !
[20:40] thanks. done.
[20:40] sub3 please
[20:40] safewords for subs get discussed a lot, but the Dom also needs to understand that they too can call the end to a scene if it becomes uncomfortable for them
[20:41] * Domme1 nods to sub3 .. for sure
[20:41] most times in a scene if the Dom gets uncomfortable with what is going on they step back and just stop...but perhaps discussing taking a time out to check with each other during the scene might be beneficial
[20:41] End!
[20:41] Oh heck yes....I have ....and will always do so if I think it is going "south" or check at least
[20:42] as a minimum
[20:42] sub2 please
[20:42] !
[20:42] !
[20:42] i also think that being in a fimular place that they have met before is important
and also that the limits should never be pushed on the frist play scene.. maybe if i am right?and great point sub3
[20:42] end!
[20:43] Yes you play at a level of comfort and take the long view that you can do more later as you learn each other..
[20:43] sub4 please
[20:43] checking is important, depending if one is using ropes or restraints...for example, i have poor circulation in my hands and feet.....its important during play for my Master to check my bonds...
[20:44] depending if i'm suspended or simply bound....because of the endorphines, i'm not always exactly "feeling" the condition of my limbs. -end
[20:44] Oh you just brought up a extremely important point sub4 these discussions HAVE to cover medical issues and potential problems....how do you take care of a diabetic for example.
[20:45] or a circulation issue
[20:45] what to have on hand for play
[20:45] Dom3 please
[20:46] :) well was going to start back with the experice.. there is lots of place you can pull info from.. the people arouDom1 you, the people you go to parties with and just looking it up on the web.. a lot of info helps but in true is no subutate for accualy doing it.. :) the more info you come to the table the better you can both talk about it ..
[20:47] very good ...knowledge is your friend not your enemy...in almost everything
[20:47] !
[20:47] on for a little later that was talked on :) Safety should always be up aDom1 inprorted thing.. do you have the fire extugest, towal water, chair fot htem to sit in.. after care, you do ont nee to talk abotu them they should be route thign sbut always good to metenin it the first time to make sure set your mind Never Assume anyting ..
[20:47] :) ! end for now :)
[20:48] Very good you have my guide Dom3
[20:48] LOL
[20:48] sub3 please
[20:48] rofl
[20:48] since this discussion started out with a first time play scenario....the negotiations should not be done 5 minutes before the play....or on the way to the cross
[20:48] they should be done when there is plenty of time to go over the details, to discuss what the concerns are
[20:49] sometimes, its easy to say oh sure...that's okay with me...but after you think about it, you get a knot in your gut
[20:49] or you say absolutely not, but as you do some more self-introspection you see its really not a hard limit, but maybe something you don't understand well
[20:50] sub3 was terrified of the single tail...until she was gently introduced to it while clothed in a demo....and fire play was a hard limit....that is getting softer as she learns more about it
[20:50] hard limits are set in concrete...soft limits are a line in the sand...that can be redrawn at any time
[20:51] but negotiating with no immediate pressures makes it a much better negotiation
[20:51] End!
[20:51] Oh good point and one I did not think to include...but a breif re-negotiation is still good ...maybe not 5 minutes before but some time before for those just in case last thoughts. But you are very correct not 5 minutes before the first and only time to negotiate ever.
[20:51] some say 3 or so days is the best timeframe
[20:52] !
[20:52] and a check beforehand about any last minute changes of heart
[20:52] sub2 please
[20:52] i am not sure if this pretands .. when and after you discuss the secen and agree somthing comes up like that gut feeling when you get there..
[20:53] how easy is it to say no when you have spent so much time discussing it lol
[20:53] end!
[20:53] well personally I would rather hear about it before hand...but there is always the safe word if it becomes a problem..
[20:54] !
[20:54] and if it becomes a issue in the middle of play stop
[20:54] safe word out
[20:54] discuss it
[20:54] ty..
[20:54] (toesses in a quick note as a Moderator1.. Saying a Safe word at anytime is ok to call.. and shoudl be called if you are not feelign right never feel afriea to call one
[20:54] sub3 please
[20:55] how easy is it to say no? sub3 can tell you she did it not long ago
[20:55] we were getting ready for some play...and well during set up...things were getting set out that caused sub3 concern
[20:55] !
[20:56] she backed up....wrapped in a blanket and said, not doing it till we talk some more....
[20:56] the prep for the scene stopped, we talked about the concerns sub3 had, and set up was changed....
[20:57] yes sub3 is sub, but she is also a real person with real concerns, and her Master and her hubby have earned her trust by respecting those concerns and limits
[20:57] but for first play....you better believe the sub has to be ready to say no...or safeword
[20:57] End !
[20:57] Well to some they have a hard time with it sub3 .... a fear of not pleasing ... or looking bad...or what ever reason..but yes it should always be a "allowable even" to say no at anytime and discuss it. a pre-play negotiation is not foolproof but a planning step
[20:57] * sub4 shifts slightly
[20:58] !
[20:58] sub2
[20:58] yesSir you summed it up .. more of affraid of disappoint ment ..ty end!
[20:58] :)
[20:58] !
[20:59] Dom3 please
[21:00] when I first got into going to parties and playign with floggers aDom1 what not.. I was with a girl that had been trianed not to safeword out but she NEGELGETED to tell me this part of it untill I started workingon her ass and the damage that her previos dork did to her with a hockey stick at full swing.. she had a blood tattoo of tthat hockey stick.. she did nto want to displease him by saying no.. Your LIFE your
[21:01] you cut off at Your LIFE our Dom3
[21:01] You got to be able to say the safe work if need be or be where there are Moderator1 that will quiestion what the hell is going on.. but you got to call it .. sorry for diving it the other way other then pre talk .
[21:01] Your LIFE your Health might be on the line ..
[21:01] and it is fine
[21:01] !
[21:01] My opinion is no negotion is carved in stone
[21:02] sub3 please
[21:02] that's why negotiations need to be level playing field...not Dom/sub dynamic
[21:02] !
[21:02] !end
[21:02] sorry
[21:02] yes true sub3
[21:02] subs get pleasure to submitting to what the Master/Dom wants
[21:02] {{good night everyone}}
[21:03] * Domme1 is now known as Domme1^sleeps
[21:03] but the Dom/Master also gets pleasure from drawing that pleasure from the sub....if you can't honestly tell the Dom what concerns you have, how much are you truly trusting the person who is going to come at you with the flogger or single tail
[21:04] safe words are great...negotiations get you started on the right road for the scene...
[21:04] after the scene do follow up...discuss what steps you might like to take for future scenes
[21:04] but fear of disappointing.....sub3 thinks Doms would be more disappointed to know that their sub did not trust them to tell them about a fear or limit
[21:05] End !
[21:05] very vaid points and something that should also be part of the negotiations, after care plan, and post play discussions.
[21:05] sub2 please
[21:05] can i add a imput.. i was taught wrong too a long time ago .. and had no safewrod so it is hard now .. but is easier when i havesomeone that brought it up to me to use...it just is amazing when in this chat all the no no's i was involved in ..got to be careful..so i am learning...
[21:06] end!
[21:06] * Moderator1 smiles
[21:06] Dom6 please
[21:06] ty
[21:07] I guees part of what I was going to say ... as been covered .. diabetic
[21:07] But thinkingg on the point of any meds that one is taking
[21:08] myself .... Coumadin
[21:08] * Dom4 waves to Dom6 here also
[21:08] yes medical conditions are Hugely important and should be a primary part of the play plan and negotiations. And yes some medications are apt to increase bruising or bleeding...so they should be taken into consideration and planned for
[21:08] But know what and how meds effect the person
[21:08] !end
[21:08] !
[21:09] sub3 then I want to start wrap up and links if you do not mind
[21:09] medical conditions are a concern on both sides....not just the one on the receiving end of the flogger
[21:10] if the Dom has a medical condition...discussion should include escape from restraints in case of medical emergency by the one not bound, where the Dom's meds are, etc.
[21:10] very good sub3
[21:11]