[20:10]  Okay let me post the guidelines and a simple little scenario so we can open it up 
[20:10] * sub1 sits quietly near sub2^ 
[20:10]  -The Moderators/Facilitators will start out with a general background or storey,
[20:10]   Consider it a “This could happen to you kind of thing. “
[20:11]  -At the end of this discussion /storey the moderators will ask a few general questions 
[20:11]  and open things up for discussion. 
[20:11]   - To facilitate equal share the moderators will ask that you signify that you have
[20:11]  some input by simply doing a “!” in channel. The moderators will call you in 
[20:11]  turn. Please do “End!” or some other way to signify you have finished your thought.
[20:11]  -To keep things on track expect that you may get summarized and discussion 
[20:11]   moved on to a different topic area. Please do not feel you are not important or 
[20:11]   your input is not important. It is just for the sake of time, since we are somewhat 
[20:11]   limited in time and must keep the discussion going. If this topic has enough               
[20:11]   interest it can be covered again later.
[20:11]   -At the end of the summary there will be some links that are useful and 
[20:11]   Informative as well.
[20:11]  - Copies of this discussion will be made available with out the names of all
[20:11]   parties for the sake of safety and security.
[20:11] * MODERATORr2 sets mode: -v MODERATOR1
[20:12]  okay I will wait so that everyone can read that
[20:12] * cheeky`moaning nods having finished
[20:12]  okay ready for the backgound
[20:12] * Dom1^of^   nods too.
[20:12] < Dom2> me too
[20:12]  aye
[20:13] * sub7 nods
[20:13] * Dom5 nods
[20:13]  Okay then here is the intro to the discussion
[20:13]  -Many new and old to this form of adult activity will sometimes stumble 
[20:13]  into situations where they feel that they have went into areas not intended,
[20:13]  if intentional or unintentional is the question. I will use the broad term
[20:13]  “Abuse” but ask that you keep in mind that sometimes edge play by 
[20:13]  consenting adults who are well aware of the risks and dangers and experienced
[20:13]  in said play may not be in fact abuse.
[20:14]  okay now to set the background for you
[20:14]  Details the person who I will call Jill (the submissive and will use the female 
[20:14]  Gender but either could apply) engaged in play with Jack (The Dominant – I use 
[20:14]  the male gender her but again either could apply).
[20:14]  and the senerio
[20:14]  Details of this adventure:
[20:14]  Jack and Jill engaged in some new play that Jill found in a storey somewhere.
[20:14]  She briefly described it to Jack and hinted at wanting to do some of that type 
[20:14]  of play next time they had a chance to play.  Now after the play had finished Jill 
[20:14]  was sporting some bruises and emotional backlash from the play. 
[20:15]  let me know when you are with me
[20:15] < Dom2> i am
[20:15] * sub2^ nods
[20:15] * sub3 nods
[20:15] <{pleasure}MODERATOR1> ~
[20:15] * Dom6 nods
[20:15] * cheeky`moaning nods
[20:15]  nod
[20:15]  okay here is my question for you all:
[20:15]  Okay was the activity that Jack and Jill just finished engaging in Abuse? 
[20:15]  And why do you think it is or is not?
 [20:15]  !
[20:16]  MODERATORr2 please
[20:16]  !
[20:16]  !
[20:16]  Not enoguth information to come to a conclusion 
[20:16]  done
[20:16]  Hello dentist, we are having a discussion on BDSM vs. Abuse, 
please type ! if you would like to comment or have questions.
[20:16] * sub3 nods in agreement to MODERATORr2
[20:16] < Dom2> !
[20:16] * Dom6 nods as well
[20:16]  Yes I left it somewhat ambigious didn't I
[20:16]  Dom6 Please
[20:17]  I withdraw the ! because MODERATORr2 said the same thing I was about to.
[20:17]  hi
[20:17]  LOL
[20:17]  done
[20:17]  sub1 please
[20:17] * Dom1is smoking, will read when I get back. *Smiles*
[20:17]  !
[20:18]  okay  Dom2 please then
[20:18]  While i concur with the statement that not enough information was given to 
come to a true conclusion, i did get the hint that Jill did hint that this play was something 
she wanted to take part in
[20:18]  er...
[20:18]  done, i think.
[20:18]  yes vailid point sub1 
[20:18]  nods
[20:18]  it was somewhat consenting or semi-conesnting activity
[20:18] < Dom2> This is not abuse< the sub asked to try a new form of play and the Dom agreed. 
The scene did not turn out as good as hoped. What is needed is debriefing and communication. 
Her asking was consent to the new play in my opinion.
[20:19]  Yes very valid point  Dom2
[20:19]  ! counterpoint
[20:19]  Please MODERATORr2
[20:20]  consent is implyed by her asking but as with any situation it can be revolked 
 abd if it was revolved as in the use of a safe word and it continued then it becomes abuse 
[20:20]  done
[20:20] < Dom2> !
[20:21]  Okay lets let sub2^ speak and then you  Dom2
[20:21]  sub2^ please
[20:21]  with lack of more information, it could be implyed there was consent, but also how
 much knowledge did They have to be doing the scene?  what kind of care did Jack really know to give 
after the play
[20:21] * sub3 nods to 
[20:22]  !
[20:22]  Very excent point sub2^ it appears on the surface alot of things may or may not 
have happened
[20:22]  sometimes that is the key points what did they do to prepare for new play and 
what care and communication afterwards like  Dom2 said
[20:22]   Dom2 please
[20:23] < Dom2> My only experience is in real life so I may not be taking this as broadly as others, 
I assume had a safeword been invoked there would be NO question about whether it was abusive......it 
is always abuse to ignore a safeword period
[20:23]  Yes that in my not so humble opinoin is always abuse if safe words are ignored 
[20:24]  sub4^ please
[20:24]  you can give you consent to something not knowing what was intened, informed consent
 is very vital... if you are not informed can you truely give your consent.
[20:24] * Dom1^of^   nods in agreeance.
[20:24]  end 
[20:24] < Dom2> !
[20:24] * sub3 nods enthusiastically to sub4^
[20:24]  nods in agreement
[20:24]  !
[20:24]  yes why especially with new and never done activities that communication 
word is essential 
[20:25]   Dom2 please 
 [20:25]  hi sub5
[20:25]  hello
[20:25]  Welcome sub5, 
[22:21]  there is a way for you to erase the other profile
[20:25]  [22:21]  if you change into that nick and go through the steps one by one, 
just leaving them blank it will erase them
[20:25]  [22:21]  oh, okay, thank You
[20:25]  [22:21]  i will do that later
[20:25]  eeip I'm so sorry everyone
[20:25]  ER
[20:25]  >.>
[20:26] * sub1 turns bright red
[20:26] * Dom1 snuggles His beautiful pet, listening silently to Moderator and the Oothers.
[20:26] * MODERATOR1 smiles it happens
[20:26] * Dom5 is redder LOL
[20:26] < Dom2> I don't do anything without informed consent...... and when it's something new, 
it's my responsibility to check with the sub as the scene progresses to assure myself he is okay
 and still consenting
[20:26]  !
[20:27]  Excellent  Dom2...the Dom/me responsibilites do not end at before and after
 but also during
[20:27]  sub3 please
[20:27]  I have found that not alls ubbies understand all forms of play, as well as their
 own tolerances for certian plays, especially if the play is new... it is incumbent on the Dominant 
to set limits based on judgment of his/her skills and their knowledge of the subbie in question... 
this is important even when a safeword is in place, imho
[20:28]  VERY GOOD sub3
[20:28] < Dom2> absolutely
[20:28]  Thank you, Sir
[20:28]  end
[20:28]  informed does not mean that the subbie knows what is happening especially 
if they are zooming into deep subspace
[20:28]  Exactly, Sir
[20:28]  !
[20:28]  I have stopped when a subbie is in deep subspace to err on the safe side as well.
[20:29]  {sub}MODERATOR1 please
[20:29] * sub3 nods in agreement
[20:29]  well... what i was thinking is kinda along the same lines as sub3... i was 
thinking that if jill brought this information to Jack... how knowledgeable was He in this and 
perhaps *abuse* if it could be called that was purely unintentional due to Jack's ignorance of the issue
[20:29]  so it could be just a case of poor play planning period and not intentional abuse then
[20:29]  just more of the "not knowing all of the information"... 
[20:29]  end
[20:30]  Dom6 please
[20:31]  !
[20:31]  Okay there are judgement calls occurring on both sides.  The sub has to judge if they're
 up for the sort of play, the Dom has to judge if it's a good idea etc.. Judgement calls can always be 
in error.  I think  Dom2 brought up the term "debreifing"..
[20:31]  yes the post play is important and extremely so with new forms of play 
[20:31]  Which should have occurred *periodically* during the play, and we have not been told if
 it did or not.  
[20:32]  done
[20:32]  Okay you busted me on that I left out details intentionally to make you think 
[20:32] * MODERATOR1 smiles
[20:32]  sub1 please
[20:33]  i've done alot of reading, because i am so new to the scene, and part of it says that
 all scenes should involve not only a safeword but a full discussion both before and after the scene, 
and (we dont know for sure) we could guess that this may not have happened.
[20:33]  it sounded like Jill mentioned the play in sort of passing
[20:34]  and also that Jack agreed without asking too many details
[20:34] < Dom2> !
[20:34]  done
[20:34]  Good and very valid point and yes I did not slant it that way but implied it was just
 as you put it in passing
[20:34]  Dom1^of^   please
[20:34]  Okay, first of all, I'd like to say that in scrolling/reading, all the ideas were 
very good. :)
[20:35]  My personal take on this is, if I bring something to My slut that I wish to try, I expect
 her to question Me and make sure I have all the information, just as I'd question her, if I wasn't too 
sure.
[20:35]  Research, people, it's all about the research.
[20:35]  End.
[20:35] * sub1 makes a note that his brain is somewhat dead and so he departs for a few moments to find
 stimulants of the caffinated kind
[20:35]  Excellent 
[20:35]  yes if it is new to either or both alot of research before hand is a MUST
[20:36]   Dom2 please
[20:36]  !
[20:37] < Dom2> pass me please phonecall
[20:37] < Dom2> I apologize
[20:37]  its ok  Dom2
[20:37]  okay  Dom2 
[20:37]  sub3 please
[20:38]  Oh, sorry... I withdraw that! please
[20:38] * sub3 blushes lightly
[20:38]  LOL okay
 [20:38]  okay we are already her but here is my next question for you all
[20:38]  Okay it was not Abuse so what could be done to improve their play?
[20:38] * sub3 laughs at that quit
[20:38]  !
[20:39]  sub3 please
[20:39]  Talk talk talk, Sir... before, possibly during... definitely after, Sir
[20:39]  Done
[20:39]  yes a vaild point 
[20:39]  !
[20:39]  !
[20:39]  and mentioned before and can not be mentioned enough
[20:39]  !
[20:40]  sub2^ please
[20:40]  !
[20:40]  1
[20:40]  know Yyour partner, what makes them tick, their quirks, know how to READ their body 
language and READ it completely
[20:40]  !*
[20:40]  yes true sub2^ and that has to be done over time and as you learn each other and 
you have to do that with care and slowly
[20:41]  sub3 please
[20:41]  There is always a lot of talk about subspace and the altered consciousness of that... 
but let us not forget the power and intoxication of Top space... it too can affect judgment, and risk 
the safety of any play that is new and unfamiliar
[20:41]  done
[20:42]  LOL I have to say guitly as charged to that one sub3...yes I did find that 
intoxicating 
[20:42]  and Had to learn to curb and control that myself
[20:42] * sub3 nods
[20:42]  !
[20:42]  Dom5 please
[20:42]  Rent a film that portrays the new play idea and watch it together, then as 
everyone's said... talking about it always helps, for example "yes I'd like that, or no I don't 
feel comfortable with that" and be as open and honest as possible.  If films aren't available, 
there are websites and stories all over the net.
[20:43]  End.
[20:43]  Excellent
[20:43]  Well said, Ms Domme1, Ma'am
[20:43]  ty
[20:43]  Most exceelent...a caution on that however is sometimes that is staged so
 be warey of it
[20:43] * sub3 nods
[20:43]  Dom1   please
[20:44]  Oh.. I retract.. The subbies already pretty much stated what I was going to say.
[20:44]  okay MODERATORr2 please
 [20:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +h sub7
[20:44]  Make sure no alcohol or drugs are in either system before / during play 
including prescrion that can alter your persecption done
[20:44]  wb sub7
[20:45]  Welcome sub7, pet
[20:45]  thankYou
[20:45] * sub8 smiles, thanks my Lady.
[20:45]  MOST Excellent point
[20:45]  ..?
[20:45]  Enjoy the discussion in progress
[20:45]  Hello certainly sub1
[20:45]  waves to everyone and quickly sits down at the Domina's feet.
[20:45] * sub3 withdrew her earlier ! because she was fielding a phone call from her job... 
apparently there is too much staffing scheduled and so her overtime shift tonight has been 
cancelled... sub3 is off tonight!!!!!
[20:46]  !!!! YAY!
[20:46]  sorry
[20:46] * MODERATOR1 smiles
[20:46]  grins
[20:46]  thank you MODERATOR1 
[20:46]  Wonderful:D
[20:46]  you had a question sub1
[20:46] * sub3 wants to do a happy dance, but listens politely instead
[20:46]  oh its nothing ;)
[20:47]  if you are sure
[20:47]  !
[20:47]  i had put in a ! but i decided i didnt need to say anything
[20:47]  okay 
[20:47]  Dom6
[20:47]  please
[20:47]  I would like to also add that while the safeword is a common convention it can 
also have it's problems if the sub won't use it when they should or if the Dom ignores "plain 
english" because they're insisting on the safeword being used and may mistake the lack of its 
use as meaning the sub is just exploring the headspace.  Not all people use them either.  Personally 
I don't use them except for in edgeplay where the sub is intentionall
[20:47]  Ok, I'll bet that cut off.
[20:47]  yeah at sub is intentionall
[20:47]  Personally I don't use them except for in edgeplay where the sub is intentionally 
exploring being able to be "helpless to resist", etc.  They are a convention, but not perfect and
 not universal.  Having one does not in and of itself make the play "safe" and it can be unwise to
 count on them more than on common sense.
[20:48]  Done
[20:48]  !
[20:48]  Excellent, Dom6, Sir
[20:48]  yes when all else fails common sense applies...and except for some forms of play
 "Stop it hurts in the right tone of voice " is a secondary safe word for me
[20:49]  sub2^ please
[20:49]  a couple of friends of mine did demos during munches... and they used alert words... 
 easy words.. green was always the go word, yellow meaning it was getting a bit more than the sub was 
ready for.. and red.. meant that the safeword would or could be used shortly there after
[20:50]  normal words like that let the Dom know where their sub is.. though when falling into 
subspace i did not see the aid of these words.. a sub might forget the simplest of things...  but it 
still seemed to me to help with a scene when it got extreme
[20:51]  just my thoughts
[20:51]  i like that concept, alot, sub2^. i hadn't thought about it.
[20:51]  yes the easy the better and keeping in mind the SA (situational awareness) 
has to still be there or as Dom6 put it if the subbie in a pained voice says stop ,,,,,then stop.
[20:52]  !
[20:52]  sub2
[20:52]  please
 [20:53]  something i found with safewords.. is that some Doms (no offence to this) have their
 own words they want to use.. but each sub is different and a word they are aware of more often than 
not helps.. not trying to remember something that Master said to use...
[20:53]  Welcome Dom9
[20:53]  yes it should be something that is easy for both to recall
[20:53] * Dom9 stumbles in
[20:53] * sub3 waves to Dom9 as she listens to the discussion
[20:53]  Greetings.
[20:53]  Welcome, our Topic: BDSM vs. Abuse .... a discussion to help you see the difference
 between BDSM and Abuse 
[20:54]  okay where can one go besides movies or the internet to plan new play?
[20:54]  !
[20:54]  !
[20:54]  !
[20:54]  sub3 please
[20:55]  One should seek out others with experience... mentors of sorts, whether online,
 or better still, real life if there are any available... there is no substitute for experience, imho
 [20:55]  good one sub3
[20:55]  sub2^ please
[20:55]  done
 [20:56]  books, and other people in the lifestyle that You trust... 
[20:56] * sub1 withdraws his !
[20:56]  good ones as well sub2^ 
[20:56]  !
[20:56]  munchies were mentioned before as were demonstrations
[20:56]  sub3 please
[20:57]  I am a nurse, and there are many many of us healthcare workers in the lifestyle... 
seeking us out can avail ourselves with an abundance of information about anatomy and physiology 
when it comes to new plays
[20:58] * sub2^ nods with sub3
 [20:58]  now there is one that I did not even think of
[20:58]  Excellent
[20:58] * sub3 waves to southern^
[20:58]  I Learned something new
[20:58]  !
[20:58]  damn would not have thought of that
[20:58]  May I add to that?
[20:58]  sub3
[20:58]  yes
[20:59]  I know people who have gone to their physicians with questions too... and after
 the brow raising and blushing, they have been given valuable information, even if the professional 
is not lifestyle savvy
[20:59]  done now
[21:00]  another one I would not have thought of especially when someone has a diabetic 
condition etc
[21:00]  Exactly, Sir
[21:00]  okay lets slide this a slightly different direction
[21:00]  What should you do if you do have problems and are abused?
[21:00]  Or one who is prone to seizures, which have special considerations, Sir
[21:00]  Done now... really
[21:00]  lets say it was a bypass of safeword
[21:00]  LOL
[21:00]  still valid sub3
[21:00] * sub3 blushes
 [21:01]  let say the senerio was different and Jack ignored the safe word or did not get 
consent in any manner and jill was abused what should she do
[21:01]  !
[21:01]  MODERATORr2 please
[21:02]  !
[21:02]  personally i would call the law and report it as abuse hopefully something could
 be done before he had the chace to hurt / abuse some one else 
[21:02]  !
[21:02]  Excellent
[21:02]  sub1 please
[21:03]  i would call law enforcement as well, but also that may not be a good enough reaction
[21:04]  explain please 
[21:04]  depending on the relationship between the Dom and the sub, are they just sceneing for
 this one time, and once law enforcement arrives, with that be the last time they have to deal with 
each other?
[21:04] * sub8 quietly slips out, bidding all goodnight and bright blessings.
[21:04]  good point
[21:04]  or is this pair in a contract, or is the Dom/me the holder of the sub's collar?
[21:05]  (very closely related, i understand)
[21:05]  yes so what would one do in those cirsumstances
[21:05]  im not entirely sure, but law enforcement can only do so much
[21:05]  !
[21:05]  done
[21:05]  sub2^ and then sub3
[21:07]  depending on the home life... if jill was strong enough to go to the police.. wonderful..
 but what if she wasn't but yet had the courage to confide in a friend...  jill would have to be willing 
to file charges and follow through... which is a problem in todays society.  many women and men too are 
afraid to follow through afraid of the repercussions
[21:07]  yes oh so true...and other resources such as domestic abuse shelters are available 
as well
[21:08]  and yes they take "kinky" folks 
[21:08]  sub3 please
[21:08]  I worked for a law firm once, and know something about the law... here in CT, everything
 BDSM is technically illegal... consent to be battered is not supported by the law... so reporting a 
Dom/me who goes too far may backfire and get both parties in trouble... I have no 
[21:09]  !
 [21:09]  Yes true but you still need to get distance from the "Abuser" on bad will come 
about otherwise
[21:09] * sub3 nods
[21:09]  sub2^ please
[21:10]  sub3 i think the end of your message was cut off
[21:10]  No, that was all of it, sub1
[21:10]  what recourse will work. ?
[21:10]  tread lihgtly until they know the repercussions of what the law will do
[21:10]  Indeed, Sir
[21:10]  branching off silkie's thoughts... there are groups and otherwise Lifestyle friendly 
groups that help Lifestylers, that know how to interpret and read the laws, to AID and protect 
lifestyle... knowing it is illegal in most ways... 
[21:10]  oh. mine doesnt show that part, thanks.
[21:11]  Kink Aware professionals is one
[21:11]  Thank you for finishing that, MODERATOR1, Sir
[21:11]  Lawyers and medical folk who will assist kinky folk
[21:11]  that is one group I know of like sub2^ is talking about
[21:11] * sub3 nods, aware of that group
[21:12]  okay what else should the injured party do
[21:12]  www.immediatefamily.org is a nationwide safe house for lifestylers
[21:12]  !
[21:12]  thank you sub5
[21:12]  sub2^ please
[21:12]  the injured party should leave the situation.... pure and simple
[21:12]  yes definatly
[21:12]  nods
[21:13]  and seek medical assistance for both physical and mental harm
[21:13]  anyone think of anything else
[21:13]  one second I want to get this prominent in the discussion
[21:13]  **************************
[21:14]  ********************************
[21:14]   www.immediatefamily.org is a nationwide safe house for lifestylers
[21:14]  *************************
[21:14]  *************************8
[21:14]  I think that is important enough to warrant that forgive me
[21:14] * sub3 nods
[21:14] * sub5 smiles
[21:14]  agreed  MODERATOR1 
[21:15]  okay let me toss this out for you
[21:15]  -report any instances of stalking or following.
[21:15]  -report all repeat abuse experiences.
[21:15]  - be extra safety conscientious and try to travel with people you trust.
[21:15]  -be sensitive to any “disturbances around your house”
[21:15]  anyone think those are good things to do 
 [21:15]  Hullo
[21:15]  Hello Dom10
[21:15]  helo MODERATOR1
[21:15] * sub3 waves to Dom10 and Dom11 and stays attentive to the discussion
[21:16] * Dom10 waves all friendly and nice like.
[21:16] * Dom11smiles and waves to sub3
[21:16]  Well I think we are about out of fuel tonight would you like to see some links
 I have found on the topic?
[21:16] * sub3 giggles at the Dom10 friendly and nice
[21:16]  Yes, of course, Sir
[21:16]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/whatisabuse.html
[21:16]  Damn missed the discussion
[21:17]  http://www.steel-door.com/Chamber.html
[21:17]  http://www.steel-door.com/Finding_Your_Dominant.html
[21:17]  http://www.steel-door.com/predators_and_fakir.htm
[21:17]  http://www.steel-door.com/Abusers.html
[21:17]  http://www.steel-door.com/Damage_Control.html
[21:17]  http://latches.webslaves.com/content.htm
[21:17]  http://latches.webslaves.com/bdsm_or_abuse.htm
[21:17] * MODERATORr2 claps well done every one
[21:17]  http://inner-strength.themaxinux.net/articles/index.html
[21:17] * sub3 applauds enthusiastically
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/healingabuse.htm#bdsmabuse
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/ravenbdsmabuse2.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/dakinidsandabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/crimsonDom1abuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/harrissubstand.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/silverozabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/cindydifferences.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/steelabusersamong.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/sabertrustabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/eso/esoabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/ravendstoabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/ravensignsabuse.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/juliawhitebattered.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/zenaflashbacks.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/chrismsiraprofile.htm
[21:17]  http://www.leathernroses.com/abuse/silverrecollections.htm
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/index2.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/whatisabuse.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/domesticviolence.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/abused-me.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/abused-me.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/abusechecklist.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/spotabuser.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/abusereactions.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/ptsd.html
[21:17]  http://www.christiansandbdsm.com/healthyrelationships.html
[21:17]  http://www.s-t.com/projects/DomVio/domviohome.HTML
[21:18]  that is alot
[21:18]  LOL
[21:18]  sorry about that
[21:18]  Wow, Sir!
[21:18]  thank you MODERATOR1 Sir 
[21:18]  what about castlerealm.com?
[21:18]  lol
[21:18]  thank You Sir MODERATOR1 that was a Wonderful topic
[21:18] * sub3 can't take notes that fast!
[21:18]  thats what copy and paste is for ;)\
[21:18]  http://castlerealm.com/dstimes/1page1.htm
[21:18]  :P
[21:18]  yes I missed that one
[21:18] * MODERATOR1 smiles
[21:19]  theres alot more than that one, but thats a great one ;)
[21:19]  sub1 i would love to see you come back each sunday evening i think there will 
be a lot of usefull information available since you said you are very new to the life style
[21:19] * Dom11 thinks sub3 needs some finger exercises to help her writing skills   
[21:19]  yes 
[21:19]  it will be in the log of tonight discussion
[21:19]  Information on John Robinson:
[21:19]  http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/john_robinson/index.html
[21:19]  Note this is the ones for the state of Michigan; 
[21:19]  many states have similar information available and can
[21:19]   be found with a simple web search. If you are having 
[21:19]  difficulty with this please contact one of the Ops at
[21:19]   a appropriate time to assist you.
[21:19]  Offender Tracking Information System (Michigan): 
[21:19]  http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2.html
[21:19]  Sexual Offender's Registry: 
[21:19]  http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2.html
[21:19]  thank you MODERATORr2 ;)
[21:20] < Dom11> :P
[21:20]  The resource for people who are seeking psychotherapeutic, medical, and legal 
professionals who are informed about the diversity of consensual, adult sexuality. 
[21:20]  http://www.bannon.com/kap/
[21:20]  I keep a kinky links section on my web browser with alot of info
[21:20]  i will try to be here on sunday nights when i do not have to work
[21:21]  LOL so I simply have to find the ones I want
[21:21]  thank you sub1
[21:21]  I would propose that the next topic perhaps be: After care when, how and 
[21:21]  what is it and does it only satisfy the needs of the submissive or does the 
[21:21]  Dominant get benefits from it?
[21:21]  Future topic are play negotiations and how to go about them.
[21:21] * sub3 does the happy dance now that the discussion is ended, since she suddenly doesn't 
have to go to work tonight!@
[21:21]  <------is now officially one tucked out Dom
[21:21]  Good topic, MODERATOR1, Sir
[21:21]  ooooooooooooh nice topic Sir
[21:21]  ok bed time for me i am old 
[21:21]  night all

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