The True Meaning of the Sanctuary

Christ, His Work and You

A Transcript of Dr.  Richard Nies’ 1983 Lectures (#1 of 3)

INTRODUCTION

This series is largely devoted to a study of the sanctuary—The sanctuary message. We are not going to be moving furniture around. We don’t have time for that. In the days to come I’m going to be giving a series on the Atonement via the sanctuary. And I’m going to talk about some of the typology of the Old Testament and what it means. What I’m going to try to do is to give you a sweep of what is the sanctuary message, and I’m going to try to do it in a way that gives you the forest and not the trees.

Today I’m going to be using the pattern of the daily and the yearly  services.  The daily services in the type refers to the anti-type and its application to what Jesus has been doing in the heavenly sanctuary up until 1844.  That is, what God was doing from the time Jesus ascended back to heaven up until 1844? This typified the priest’s daily ministration in the earthly sanctuary.  

The yearly service as I understand it began in 1844 at the end of the longest time prophecy found in Daniel, the 2300 year prophecy and will continue until the close of probation for the world.  In the earthly sanctuary this was referred to as the yearly service or the day of atonement, or the day of judgment.

If you want to get some background for this study, I would recommend  the book Patriarchs and Prophets by E.G. White, chapter 30. especially pages 352 to 358, or The Great Controversy, chapters are 23, 24, and 29. especially pages 418 to 422.

The earthly sanctuary was a type of earth that was started in the wilderness and eventually became a part of the larger temple in Jerusalem. which symbolized God’s headquarters in heaven.   The simplest expression of what it means—“A place of refuge” answers the question about how God is running His universe.  A type after the antitype that Moses beheld in communication with God. The different illustrations involved in the services really speak to the point — God! what are doing with our world!?

Now if we were to take one word that would be the most appropriate, that word would be “Atonement.” Sometimes this is spoken as At-One-Ment. The atonement in the broadest sense refers to all of God’s activities that are designed to deal with the sin problem and to effect unity—to bring a straying earth back into unity, but in the larger picture to consolidate the loyalty and security of the entire universe.

Since the sin problem the questions that must be ultimately be clarified in the judgment is: God, have you done right in dealing with sin? Have you done right in dealing with us?  How have you been running things?  When we raise a question about the sanctuary, I think that what we are doing is attempting to present one of the most unique messages in all the Bible.  This is a clarification of history, the Great Controversy motif which has been spelled out most marvelously in the inspired 5 volumes by E.G. White called the Conflict of the Ages series. [Patriarchs and Prophets, Prophets and Kings, The Great Controversy, The Desire of Ages, and the Acts of the Apostles]. This [series] gives us a view of history that attempts to give us an understanding of how God is running his universe.  This distinct view helps us understand how sin got started, what God is attempting to do about it, and how it is going to be consummated.

When we think in terms of the final events and their meaning and how it’s all wrapped up together, we speak of this as Eschatology—the study of final events. This study examines the closing phases of the atonement and the meaning of the sanctuary message.

To talk about the sanctuary message automatically raises questions about God, “God, What are you really doing in our world? How are you going to deal with the mess that has been created by the free choices that have been distorted by your creatures who chose to defect?  God, how are you going to do this? How does everything that you have done since time was recorded tell us about you?  In short the ultimate bottom line question is about God.

There are a lot of questions about God because we do not understand how God thinks regarding our estrangement from him.  The atonement refers to all the acts God designed to deal with the estrangement of sin and to bring the whole universe back into unity.

In the next study, contrary to what you may believe, the judgment is not primarily about us, it’s about God.  Unless God’s character is vindicated before the universe, unless it can be seen that everything that God has done in dealing with the sin problem justifies his asking of us loyalty, unless that can be cleared up, unless God’s character is exhonorated there will never be unity. The most important thrust in the entire universe is to clear God’s name. Once God has been clarified and understood and appreciated we then have a basis for universal trust.

The sanctuary symbolizes God’s headquarters—the throne room where he operates his strategy for all of the problems of the universe.  The  Sanctuary messages really speak about the atonement  and the way God is operating his universe through the sanctuary.

THE ATONEMENT—THE SACRIFICE:

The atonement involves different parts.  For now, let’s look at the  sacrifice part of the atonement.  In the sanctuary services there must be a sacrifice, and there must be a priestly administration of the sacrifice.  In the earthly service the blood was taken into the sanctuary and applied to the altar (covered in part 2 of this series).

The problem that existed in the universe after sin developed is what is God going to do with the human sinners? The angelic sinners had sinned against the highest revelation of God’s love and there was nothing more that God could do to change their minds. Otherwise God would have made every effort to bring them back into unity. That’s the nature of God. But you will remember that Adam and Eve were created in one sense very much like God with creative capacities. Remember, none of the angels had this creative capacity.

God was misunderstood in terms of his basic creation from the beginning.  Satan questioned God’s very motives in creating the world; not only his motives in creating, but the methods by which he ran the world.  In other words God was questioned about the way he operated out of the sanctuary and the way he ran his government. The central charge that was leveled against God, was leveled against his character—God you are not the kind of person that can expect or solicit the loyalty, the adoration, and the love of the universe just because of your character. No one will serve you; or in fact can serve you just because they love you.  Moreover, even if they could, they wouldn’t want to. You will either have to scare them or you will have to bribe them, but it will have to be something that is outside of your character.

You will remember that in heaven Satan claimed that everyone would have rebelled except they were too frightened of Him.  In the story of Job, fear was not the issue, rather why Job was serving God.   Satan talking to God asked, Does he love you? No, he’s your fair-weathered friend. You’ve given him a lot of goodies. He doesn’t serve you for you, he serves you for what he gets out of you. So you see the ultimate thrust against the government of God was against his character--No one will serve you or love you because of your character. This is no way to run the universe. I [Satan] can do a better job.

In a sense, Satan was offering an antithesis to God’s sanctuary —he offered his own sanctuary. In essence he said as in Isaiah 14:13, “I will sit on the sides of the north”. This is all sanctuary symbology.  That is, he says, I can sit on the Holy Hill, which later is what is referred to as the hill of Jerusalem, where the temple was—where the great earthly sanctuary was. Thus he says:  I can do a better job. In fact, ultimately the battle of Armegeddon comes back to this very issue in which Satan out in desperation to attempt to destroy the people who have chosen to follow God. You see, Satan has said, you can never have a people. No one will serve you out of love.  And it’s looked for many years as if this were the case.

I believe that Adam and Eve were created for a very special mission—to represent the character of God.  Both Satan and God could rule or influence this couple. They had not seen any of the controversy that had gone on before, for they were not yet created when all this happened.  Satan would not be able to say to the rest of the loyal universe that Adam and Eve were frightened…that God has sort of put the screws on them and scared them so they would not defect—not because they love him but just because they were afraid of Him.”   

God placed restrictions on Satan’s access to them. Remember “The tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was side by side with “The tree of life.”  Every day they had to partake at least once of the “tree of life,” therefore at least once a day Satan had access to them. [See Genesis 2:16,17].

As a sidelight God restricted his own access to Adam and Eve, for how would it have looked if God had monopolized all their time?  Therefore, like Satan, God once a day also had access to the human couple “in the cool of the day”—remember that expression? — “the cool of the evening”? [See Genesis 3:8].  This is not to say that the angels did not have access to them all the time to instruct and guide them in their learning experiences.

This is why the Sabbath became important to the human race. The Sabbath was made as a special time to get acquainted with God the Father and His Son the creator. The angels didn’t need it. No one was arguing about monopolizing their time. But when God restricted Satan to a locale and says you can only get at him once a day, God restricted himself to once a day.  Now the problem is, how is God going to get acquainted?

THE SABBATH A GET ACQUAINTED TIME:

That is why God set aside the 7^th day as the time when He told them I’m available if you will meet with me. But that was purely voluntary. Before sin meeting with God on Sabbath was the most delightful experience of their week so there was no problem. The problem with the Sabbath only began after sin.

Perhaps God asked Adam and Eve to be special ambassadors to reflect his character, to prove to the universe that he could win them purely on the basis of his character.  This probably took place soon after Satan and his followers were cast out of heaven.  But you know the outcome.  This first couple, who should have been loyal to God, turned around and became most disloyal.  This put God into a really bad light.

What is he going to do with this couple? Now remember, according to Desire of Ages, (page 761[1]), we are told that when Lucifer sinned, when he finally made his decision, he sinned against the highest revelation of God’s love. That means that there was nothing more that God could do to change his mind.  But this was not so with Adam and Eve.

What is God going to do with Adam and Eve? For it is stated very plainly that “the wages of sin is death”. Translated in a very simple way God said to Adam and Eve, If you defect from me, if you try to live isolated from me, destruction will be your end result. You cannot live apart from me. You will self-destruct.

Now, if God lets them self-destruct, that would of course settle the problem of their paying the penalty of sin, for “the wages of sin are death.” But what would the rest of the on looking universe think?  What would they think about a God who asks Adam and Eve to help Him in his problem—and when a problem develops, God says “ That’s tough!”

So the question becomes what is God going to do with His humans who now have a problem?  He could just pass it by and say—Ok, I’ll let you get away with it this time, I’ll forgive you, but don’t let it happen again.  How would this action affect the rest of the universe?  Would it not give the rest of the universe a very trivial conception of sin?  What would the rest of the watching universe think of God. 

Remember, every thing dovetails on what the universe is thinking about God: Well! I guess sin isn’t so bad!  Someone could come along later on with the rest of the universe watching and thinking: Is sin really as bad as God told the couple?   God says the wages of sin is death, but they look pretty healthy to me. God’s forgiven them!  Now, suppose someone else should defect against God, and God says: Look, I told you that you shouldn’t do that! What might be their response? Well, you let Adam and Eve do it!

THE QUESTION IS:

You can see how the whole thing would get out of hand. How can God forgive them without trivializing sin? Without jeopardizing the whole concept of [his] Government? In other words, if God in effect lets that little bit of sin slide and its OK this time, or a little bit of cancer is OK, then his law (and what is that?)—be like me, be perfectly loving—doesn’t hold much water. Because there are exceptions to it, maybe it isn’t that necessary.

GOD’S DILEMMA:

So God has got a dilemma. One the one hand, he has to do something for Adam and Eve, because they are still salvageable, for unlike Lucifer they had not sinned against the highest revelation of his love, and after all isn’t it love that it is all about? If there is something more that He could to give them a chance to be brought back into unity God must do it. He’s that kind of person. He can’t say, Well, I’m sorry, I really needed you, but now you’ve messed up, and so I am through with you. What would the other beings in the universe think? No, God must exercise mercy.

But at the same time he must exercise justice. That is, he must maintain the stability in the government of his universe—which says—I expect you to be just like me. I expect you to be loving—and I cannot allow exceptions. Now if he allows Adam and Eve to bear the results of their sin, which is isolation, alienation, and ultimate self-destruction. He makes his point about law, but what about mercy?  And here were the conflicting elements—how can God forgive Adam and Eve without jeopardizing law? How can God be merciful and yet just? Do you see the problem?

MERCIFUL YET JUST:

How can God reconcile the competing necessities of maintaining the absolute requirement that those who were made in his image must reflect it perfectly with no exceptions? If God allows exceptions, his government is jeopardized. You must understand that. Law is not just some abstract idea that God is superimposing upon beings. If we are made in God’s image can we have another alternative to reflect that image? Is it OK to be less imperfect loving beings?  How can God on the one hand maintain the ethic of the universe, the necessity of being like him, with no exceptions, and at the same time forgiving there sins without trivializing it.

How can God reconcile justice and mercy?

You remember the argument in the garden? Who’s fault was it? Adam said, it’s really not my fault, this woman you thrust on me. What a delightful chap!  A little while before he was saying, “bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh” and now he says that thing you thrust upon me!  When Eve sinned, Adam rather than trusting God, went along with Eve and shared her sin, gallantly saying, Eve if you are going down the shoot, I’ll go down with you!  It was not very long after [the fall] he accused God saying: that woman that thou gavest me. Then it was Eve’s turn to blame God.  Lord, you gave me the Serpent, if it wasn’t for the Serpent I wouldn’t have done this. They were really saying [to God], well it’s back to you again!

It was Christ who settled the matter saying:  OK, the buck stops here. [It was not novel with Harry Truman.]. And so Christ said, OK, I created you. I will take the responsibility for what you do, for no one but me can do that, not even an angel.

If a five year old goes around and digs up someone’s flowerbed or throw bricks or baseballs through someone’s basement window, who pays for it? The parents do, not some five year old. The parents are responsible for those youngster.  This is in a sense what God did. All right, I created you, you are my kids, I’ll be responsible. Now that doesn’t mean that he caused sin. That doesn’t mean he caused the disruption. But it means that he is going to be responsible for dealing with it. So he says, All right, you couldn’t have done this had I not created you. You know a youngster could say that. Hey, I wouldn’t have done probably a lot of things if I didn’t have my parents genetic code. But then parents had a genetic code to and they could of not have done a lot of things unless they inherited it from their parents etc.  And finally we end up back in the garden of Eden and “the woman thou gavest me” and we start the whole thing all over. That never ends. But Christ says, I’ll be responsible.

Now note! Suddenly the whole universe now is focused on this person who created them—this member of the Godhead who is the special agent of Creation. And now in essence, though I’m sure that they must have had some fuzzy thoughts about this responsibility.  It’s like saying—Well, I guess whoever botched up has to pay for it.

The ultimate cause is the person that created the possibility of someone botching up. So then, what’s the penalty? Christ assumes the role of sinner. That is, this is what is spoken of as “the burial of sins.” Now He is going to become, in sanctuary terminology, the sacrificial lamb. That is, he is going to show to the universe what it’s like to be “sinner”— what the horrible results are.

Now note this. If the universe can really get a good picture of how horrible sin is so that there will never be a question about how horrible sin is, then we have a whole new possibility.  If Christ can show through his own body, through assuming responsibility for man’s sins and show what it means to die the death of the sinner, and if he forgives them and the sinner is continually forgiven, no one will ever be able to say that they got away with something. Sin would then be judged and exposed for what it is. The whole idea of the atonement was--God exposed through his own being all of the issues; he exposed love, he exposed sin; He died both as sinner, but he also died sinless.

CHRIST AS SIN BEARER:

Lets look at the sinner part first. We see Christ’s part in bearing sin coming to focus in Gethsemane and finally on the cross—where everything came to a head. Now this God-Man, who himself is God, had the capacity to suffer more than anyone else. The more you can love the more you can hurt.

For Christ there was no plan of salvation.  His sensitivities—the constant harassment that he was placed under—and the fact that there was no second chance for him made his suffering excruciating. We can only suffer so far and then we would just be wiped out.

GETHSEMANE:

Christ enters into the Garden of Gethsemane. And what is the effect of sin? Do we find the Father going after him with a blowtorch? Is this God’s reaction to sin starting some kind of a barbeque? No! That very pagan notion developed over the years needs to be re-thought.  Is sin so horrible that the Father has to add to it? No!  In Christ’s experience, we see the Father step aside and let sin be exposed for what it is. He doesn’t add anything, he just steps back.  What happened to Christ is exactly what happens to the sinner who has finally chosen to be alienated from God by his own choice — and God reluctantly accepts their decision, which is the only thing that can be done if freedom is a live option.

If God is going to respect our choices, if we chose to live by a government that is alien to his character, if we chose to live by self-centeredness—the principle of operation of Satan’s government, God does not hold us back.  The principle of God’s government is just the opposite—LOVE CENTERED and other directed.

Starting in Gethsemane and then on the cross, God exposed what happens to all sinners as a consequence and result of sin.  And what happened?  As he accepts the burden of sin and the guilt of all mankind, He begins to feel alienated to the community, the associations broken up, the loss of human companionship, and most of all that sweet fellowship He had always had with the Father. 

Now remember, psychologically our deepest need is to be loved, to be worthwhile, to be accepted. And Christ, experiencing everything that a human being experienced—this is the way God created us, and this is the way God is. God wants to be loved too. God is hurt when he isn’t loved. God is not just some Super-Cosmic robot, some Rock-of-Gibraltar in Heaven who is unfeeling about our reactions of whether we accept or reject him.

In Gethsemane we see this relationship being broken up because Christ is now acting the part of sinner.  As Creator, Christ is the only one that can do this, for He created the possibility of sin arising by creating beings able to make a choice.  Now understand he didn’t cause it. There is a big difference between being responsible for it and causing it.  It is most important to understand this distinction.  This difference is also seen at work in the types of the sanctuary service in dealing with the scapegoat and so forth.

Beginning in Gethsemane we see Christ beginning to feel like he’s a nothing, like he is worthless, like he is lost. He knows above all beings the significance of a loving relationship.  And now he is loosing this.  In fact, his intellectual grasp of things was being fragmented.

I do not think that Christ could have given a very coherent Bible study.  He was under such tremendous stress as he began to sense that he will never see the Father again and felt he would never see the race for which he was dying.  The question became, was he willing to do this? 

Now at the same time he is showing the awful result of sin, He was also showing the heart of God.  The pressure became so excruciating and his blood pressure so elevated that the finer capillaries of his skin just burst, and he exuded blood through his pours.  This has happened to others.  Under extreme pressure the blood pressure just goes wild.  This is what happened to Christ as the sense of broken fellowship with His Father and mankind bore down upon Him.  We see the further agony developing when he fell dying to the ground.  He should have died Thursday night, which would have been merciful when he fell to the ground dying.  The Father did a very strange thing instead of letting him decease. He sends angels to strengthen him so he can hurt more.  What a strange way to treat a son.  But this had to be if sin was going to be exposed for what it is. So Christ gets to the place where he cries out “my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me!?”

144,000 TO FACE SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES:

        At the very end of time during the last crisis the people of God will face similar experiences except tt will not be of the same depth, as no one will ever be deprived of the conscious presence of God like Jesus Christ was.  But there will be a reflection of it as far as God allows Satan to go to bring trials upon them.

The 144,000 will get to the place where their highest concern will not be to save their own hides, but the same concern of Jesus to not make the Godhead look bad.  We know that this people will reach a closeness with God that will be more important than their own lives.  This means that they will never say something that is ugly and untrue about God.

Their highest concern will be to have a relationship with Jesus Christ which means they will reach a level of maturity where their concern is not their own lives but to represent the live presence of God in their lives.  No longer will they have any self-centered concerns such as what will happen to me? How am I feeling? What will other people think of me?

In the early stages, yes that will probably be involved.  But in the sense that they reach that level of perception which was shared by Jesus Christ, that even if he had to go down the tube, he was willing to go, but he would not make his Father look bad.  His highest concern was that he typify and tell the truth about his Father.

In that sense this will be the analogous experience of the 144,000, but not in depth.  To be sure they will be harassed by Satan, but they will “have this mind which was in Christ Jesus,” for they will have His Holy Spirit and reflect Jesus’ character.  This will be done in a mass demonstration that has never been seen before.

The difference between what Jesus went through and experienced and the 144,000 is in the depth and breadth of that experience.  This will take place at the time referred to as the time of Jacob’s trouble.

MATTER OF UNITY:

The question is asked about the unity of God’s people at this time.  All through time there has never been a combination of people that have had had this unity and perfection of character talked about in Scripture.  How will this come about?

To those individuals who have been growing up in a relationship with Christ, who have experienced what is called the “early rain,” the Holy Spirit will pour out the “latter rain” or an abundance of the Spirit to sustain them during this time of trouble.  Otherwise they would never be able to go through these times in their own strength.  As this happens, Satan is finally cut loose in the last time sequence and given an opportunity he has never had before.

Once everyone has made their decision, God can symbolically command the four angels to release the four winds, which then really reflect the fact that God is removing his restraining power from Satan.  And God will allow Satan one last fling—to demonstrate to the universe what it would be like if he were their leader.

You see God has never really let him completely take over.  But at a point where everyone has made their decision and probation closes, no one is going to be overwhelmed by the enemy, so God will give a brief interlude, which I guess will be somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of weeks after probation is closed.

Satan will be allowed more control and regulation, power, and manifestations and miracles then he has ever manifested before.  At the same time, God will have his people made up and he will give them [power]—now this is will not a matter of their salvation.

The issue is not over the salvation of a few individuals here and there. The issue will be: God, All Right, you take a group of individuals that you say you have complete control over; that you say that they are in unity with you.  Now to those individuals who are living at that time, under the provocation of the political/religious unrest they are going to decide one way or the other.  Because of the heat of controversy everyone will have to decide whose side they are on.  Those individuals who have been going step-by-step in a relationship with God, God will give to them a full measure of what is referred to as the latter rain. This is a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit commensurate with the struggles that they are going to be facing.

God does not give power wastefully he gives it as it is needed.  As their need, God will give a special manifestation of himself.  By this time those individuals who reflect the character of God will be totally receptive to receiving the Holy Spirit.  It’s not that God is just forcing it on them. They will receive whatever God gives them.

This is not like stacking the deck as it were, or just “play acting”, he gives them more and more of his own character, of his own love, his own acceptance. And then he says to Satan “OK, here they are. Look them over. Jesus Christ was exhibit A, they are exhibit B. Tell if you think they are for real.” Now, again the emphasis is on clearing the name of God not on whether they are going to be saved or not.  This people will demonstrate a special power from God. But again, the issue is not one of their salvation it is one of their cooperation. It isn’t that they have to do something more than any other generation has done so they can be saved, not at all. The issue has already been settled at the cross. They have received Christ. So Christ takes a motley collection of his people who are living at this time from all walks of life, representing every problem, and then allow Satan the chance to give them one final going over to see if they are for real.  He will find out they are, making it impossible for him to have any further argument.  

Questioner:  I think Christ Objects Lesson states that when God’s people perfectly reflect his  character, then the end will come.  [COL , page 69.] This goes along with what you are talking about.  Also, Mrs. White states that if we had done what we should have done along time ago we would have been in the kingdom by now. Does that say then that God cannot find enough of that number to make up that perfect number?  And if so, is such a time when he will permit time to be no longer?

Dr. Nies: The first question, yes. The second question, no. Now, yes God has been having difficulty getting individuals who have that quality that they would be willing to volunteer exposure. We see the earliest struggle in the Great Controversy over an individual named Job.  That’s going to be repeated en mass for everyone. God has been having a hard time finding people, that’s true. But the thing is, he’s no going to arbitrarily close it. That is, I’m going to raise a question: How does God close shop? He doesn’t just flip a switch. There must be a genuine respect for the freedom of individuals involved. And so you see the Day of Atonement was really not ever planned by God to be very long. We’re told…in fact, it was God’s design that in that 1844 movement things were to close up very rapidly.  In other words, the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary brought the earth to a place where they were ready for a final revelation—and then the religious movements that took place in the early and middle part of the 19^th century alerted the universe to this.  But it was aborted. Ellen White speaks of this abortment as a warning. She said that we may have to remain many more year on this earth because of our insubordination.

The Seventh-day Adventist movement was aborted. We have not done what God intended us to do. Now, according to prophecy this still will be done. But there has been a delay. And the delay is because God is not going to arbitrarily push people around and say All right, I’ve got in my mind a certain fixed date at that date, it’s tough, you either make up your mind or you’ve had it. No! The delay is because God’s basic concern is to have as many in his kingdom as he can.  And he is the kind of God that even though the extension of the Controversy brings great pain to him, more than to any one else, as long as there are still individuals that could be brought into his kingdom, he will delay.

I think sometimes we get preoccupied with our own selfishness. You know the Adventist church for a number of years has raised the question: “why doesn’t the Lord come?”  Every General Conference president want to be in office when Christ comes—How dare you Christ, make us look so bad when we’ve been preaching for so long time that you are going to come! I think with we are preoccupied with our own embarrassment. We are having a hard time facing those kind of issues. But you see, when you understand it from the point of view of God and His concern to have a people. And he is not going to miss them.  And there has been a delay.  But the people that God designed to clarify the issues through the sanctuary message didn’t do it. 

Now, if the issues are not clear and God allows things to be brought to ahead…see it isn’t a problem for God. God isn’t waiting for things to get more evil he’s waiting to have a people that can reflect him, that can represent him, not only in their lives, but in their understanding. Ellen White speaks about this time when it comes when they will be sealed and she speaks of the seal, not as some visible mark, but she speaks of it as a settling into the truth, both spiritually and intellectually. That is, their lives, there spiritual lives are lived this way, but they also have an acute, intelligent understanding so that they will see the issues.

For God to allow those winds to be released and bring the earth to a moment of test, forcing everyone to make a choice, even though they don’t understand the issues, wouldn’t that be cruel of Him?

To the present time, God has not had a people who 1) understand the issues, and 2) who reflect this in their lives. And so God must [wait, delay…?] There is no other alternative if God is going to respect human freedom. 

This is one of the laments that God has.  And if you understand how God is hurting, it certainly gives us a perception of how important it is to Him.  I think the very essence of our message is not to make Seventh-day Adventists look good.  The issue is about God and his judgment.  God is the one that is being judged.  And so God has had to wait, because the issues are not yet understood by the world and the on looking universe.  Sadly God has not had a people who are ready, (but that is changing as His Spirit is being poured out all over the world.  This time there will be no turning back.)

Questioner: If it’s taken six-thousand years so far what’s going to come across that will all of a sudden close it up, or make it more rapid?

Dr. Nies:  God is going to bring things to a focal point over an issue that typifies the deepest form of trust.  It’s going to be over an understanding of the Sabbath issue. For you see, SDA’s for so long have been just simply preaching a day without understanding the experience of righteousness by faith that is involved in the correct understanding and keeping of the Sabbath.

We’ve made it some mechanical thing. We bombard people with a lot of key texts and say “now you cannot [stand…?] in the judgment, [because] you don’t know which day is the Sabbath! That’s not the issue. THE ISSUE IS A WHOLE RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST, and a whole level of trust. And it’s going to reflect the same issue that was cloaked in the Garden of Eden over those two trees.

Question: I am still a little confused here. Maybe this brings in church history. Hasn’t God in a number of different times had a people. Mrs. White speaks so glowingly of the Waldenses, certainly that was a corporate body. We think of many of the early Christians, (now many of them apostasied), but many of them went as a corporate body out to all the ends of the world. We think of the Philadelphia church in the seven churches, and so forth. Hasn’t God had a people many many times? Or is this a certain people that have certain qualities that they [the others] never had, and in that sense they are more complete?

Dr. Nies: There’s been a certain level of quality. But there has not been a depth of understanding, because all of the issues were not clarified. Now once the issues are clarified and you have a people who are receptive, that understanding is going to facilitate a deeper relationship. In other words, you can only have the kind of trust—this whole issue of righteousness by faith—until the issues of faith are clearly understood. There is a level of integrity that God has had in all generations. There is no question about it. He’s had a level of Sabbath keeping in all generations. But he’s never had a people in the same way that he wants to have a people in this final generation when ALL the evidence is in. And furthermore, this people [of the past] has always operated under or existed under certain restraints that God has imposed. [God] has never had a full play at any group of people.

Once the issues are clarified and Satan comes on “full bore” at the same time God is giving his fullness to his people, you’re going to have this marvelous antithesis between the sheep and the goats. That has never been done with full understanding. But quality people in the sense the God had access to them; they are accepted and saved by Jesus Christ—no question about it. God has always had that kind of a people. But they have not been in possession of a full understanding of the motifs of the Great Controversy. It’s no fault of their own it just hadn’t been spelled out that way.

In other words, it’s like God is saying all the evidence is in, when he steps out of the Most Holy, when he ceases his mediation. Now doesn’t mean he’s dumped his people. Absolutely not!  They’d never make it without him. But there is no more argument.  You see the argument is between Christ and Satan, not between Christ and the Father.  That’s a pagan notion - that some how Christ has to placate the Father.  The Father is just as much on our side as is Christ, and as is the Holy Spirit.  But Satan is the one who’s arguing. Look at the book of Job.

The intercession becomes necessary because Satan is [fighting] mad. Some of the issues we have not understood.  We have not understood what is going on behind the scenes.  All we see are the scenes which do not let us know what is really going on and how much hinges on the picture that we give of God.

The issues become reflected and clarified through a people who understand. They not only have the spiritual experience, they are settled into the truth spiritually by their lives, by their deepest understanding intellectually also.  It is not that they are or become a super race, in fact they will be the Weakest of the Weak. But their advantage is that they are a people who have had the benefits of understanding the whole sweep of history in perspective and understand and see God’s character clarified from beginning to end.

And then God takes his case to court through that people.  And Paul says in Romans 3, “Even if some are faithless, God will always be faithful. And then Paul sort of throws in a text that says in effect, “God I’m rooting for you when you take your case to court. When you are going to be judged, I want you to be a winner!”   That’s what the final generations going to be concerned about—loving God and seeing His character vindicated. 

If my understanding is correct, the Time of Trouble for most people is something they want to shrink from, either to flee somewhere to hole up, like in a cave in Oregon, or else they want to die so they can get out of the end time scenario. Great Controversy is “pit city”, you don’t have to read that book and find out all those horrible things. But if my understanding is correct, then the Time of Trouble is going to be the greatest time of your life. We are always emphasizing the bigness of Satan. I protest this strongly. God is much bigger than the enemy with infinitely more power.

        Several years ago a woman told me an incident that happened with her child. It was in an SDA grade school.  They wanted to impress these kids with having to get ready for the Time of Trouble.  But they were going to do it by the usual tactic of scaring them.  And they took these youngsters out in a mountainous area with sack lunches, but the faculty took their lunches and took off.  Unbeknowns to the kids, they kept a watch on the kids, leading the kids to think they were abandoned.  Panic set in.  This was a horrible thing for them to do.  After a time they finally, they came back and gave them their lunches and rescued them,  saying: “This is what it’s going to be like during the time of trouble.”

That gave a horrible picture of God. That’s not what it’s going to be like during the Time of Trouble. You might be abandoned by men. You might be thrown in the pokey, and you might have everything else thrown out.  But during that time you will never have a fuller manifestation of Jesus Christ in your life than at that time.

I’ve given some lectures a few years back entitled The Time of Trouble, the Great Time of Your Life.  I think this is something that’s important for SDA’s to understand.  I think of all people we should be raising the question when things get rough, not where can we hide, but where can we be seen?  And I think of all people we should be most secure instead of quivering when we hear of things happening.  Most people see this as a frightening time that is coming.  That is because they look at Satan and worry about themselves.  But if you get nothing else out of this message I want you to realize that God is more than an adequate God to be with you, not just protect you, but fulfill you—and at a time in earths’ history when all human props are knocked out from under you.  We will see God at his best.  And there is going to be people at that time that are going to appreciate the love of God and be fulfilled spiritually.  In other words, I’m arguing that this is an opportunity for the human race to discover a fulfillment that they have never had before, because they depend upon their bankrolls and yachts and their comfortable etc.  But during this great time of trouble, when there are no human props, then Jesus Christ will be seen at his best.  And based upon this line of reasoning, I affirm that the Time of Trouble is a great time to be alive.

Questioner: Do you see the many voices of controversy in the church today as a smoke screen that Satan is putting up to cloud the issue?

Dr. Nies: I think we’ve been warned about these kinds of issues in the sense that there is a certain merit in this confusion.  It forces people of necessity to think for themselves—to reason things out for themselves.  We are told that some of the great lights will go out, but I think the time has come, yea past when we need to realize that our faith cannot be centered in human beings, in a system of ideas or practices called Seventh-day Adventism.  It ought to be centered only in Jesus Christ.

Seventh-day Adventism is not really to be peopled by people who trust in an organization, but rather a people who have been called to have certain insights and reflect certain issues through their understanding and through their lives. 

It can be a smoke screen, that’s true. But for those individuals whose faith is rooted in the editorials of the Review and Herald or the Church Manual or the Voice of Prophecy lessons, as good as they may be.  But you will never stand if your faith is rooted in a set of ideas. 

Think of Christ.  His ideas on the cross got a little wobbly.  Earlier in his ministry He said, “destroy this temple and in three days I will build it up”.  Whereas on the cross he was saying: “God, you’ve forsaken me…I’m not going to be resurrected after all.”  We see here some tremendous confusion.  But the one thing that he never lost, even When He got down to bare nuggets was His complete confidence and trust in his Father.  And that is an example for us. 

We are all going to find, that in the final test a lot of our ideas are going to be jostled and shaken.  Things are not going to happen as we have anticipated.  But as long as you have a right relationship with Jesus Christ, even though you might be confused, you know that you can trust Him and he will not fail you and you cannot fail.

And so I say that these issues point out the development of erroneous ideas in Seventh-day Adventism. I have a great deal of sympathy regarding some of these issues that people are bringing up and the criticisms they have made, but I don’t like where they take us. For instance, the criticism made of the investigative judgment.  I was at one time deemed a heretic because I do not believe that the investigative judgment is about Seventh-day Adventism.  But I don’t think the preoccupation should be over whether we are going to be saved or lost.  It’s not going to be Seventh-day Adventist versus the rest of the world.  It’s about God and what He is doing.  For me, I am more excited about the sanctuary message then I have ever been.  I am ever ready to defend the Sabbath and the ministry of Ellen G. White, but certainly not as replacement of the Bible.  She is a lesser light to leads to the greater light. And I still have strong conviction that God has used her with all of her weaknesses and I have no question about her weaknesses.

But the God that she worshipped  and trusted is marvelous.  That he could take a woman like that who only had three grades of education at one time; almost paralyzed by all of her own symptoms.  When she talks about herself in essence as being the bottom of the barrel, she wasn’t kidding.  What God did do through her was something that she never, never could have done by herself.

As a psychologist I’ve  really picked apart everything that I could see in terms of her profile.  And there is no way that she could have done as a human being what she did.  I think that a lot of the criticism that has been logged against some of our thinking needs to be logged, but I am not so happy with where they’ve taken us. I think there is an alternative view and what I am trying to do is present the picture as I see it.  Now I realize this is just one man’s opinion. I don’t want you to let me be the anchor of your soul.  These are just my own personal conviction I am sharing with you.

And if I accomplish nothing else, I hope I can get you to think a little more clearly on your own, then I’ve served a purpose. But I’ll tell you this. I think that we must get to the place where we can think for ourselves. I believe the Holy Spirit is capable of helping us to understand for ourselves. We do not need to ask any human what sin is.

Questioner: Referring to these people that will stand in the end, what are the essential characteristics that enable them to develop this kind of relationship with God?

Dr. Nies: What was the secret of Christ’s life? His relationship to his Father—his total trust. You know, of all the people that ever lived on this earth who could say “I can do anything,” what did he really say? “I can of myself do nothing.”  That kind of trust, that kind of faith is what we must have in Him.  But to have that kind of faith, that kind of trust, You Have To Know Him.  If God is simply some giant UNIVAC in the sky, some giant computer, some big Sony tape recorder, that we give him our greedy want list, or we use him for guilt reduction, and we don’t really enjoy him, we don’t really have fellowship with him, we don’t really know him.  You can’t really have faith in a person that you don’t know.  And I think what is essential to these people is to have a picture of God that is rare in this generation. 

You see we don’t have time for God.  Look at the average Seventh-day Adventist’s involvement with God.  We throw God a biscuit to chew on in the morning; we have 5 or 10 minutes in the morning maybe via the morning watch or we zip through the Sabbath school lesson.  We spend two three hours a day watching Television; and planning our vacation and so forth.  The fact is that God doesn’t get prime time with most of us because He is not that important to us.  And when we do relate to him we relate to him as a Fuddy-Duddy old man with a white beard whom we try to placate.  We don’t give a chance to enjoy us, to rub souls with us.

What I am saying is that if you are going to have that kind of faith and that kind of trust, it comes at a price,  by the investment you make in Jesus Christ.  If you make yourself available to God each day, using your own creative ingenuity to be open, so that you are never more than a thought away, you will get further revelations.  IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW GOD, IT’S GOD’S RESPONSIBILITY TO LET HIMSELF BE KNOWN. You’re not going to find him under a cloud or a rock someplace. But IF YOU ARE ACCESSIBLE, IF YOU ARE RECEPTIVE, IF YOU ARE AVAILABLE, GOD WILL FIND YOU.

He will give you further and further revelations, and the more you see of Jesus Christ, the more you will understand the Father, you will then develop a passion to make God look good to the universe and those around you who misunderstand Him.  You do this by reflecting His character by the way you live and seek Him.  Because he means so much to you, it will be your highest joy to reflect that picture of God.

Questioner: So then as I see it, I’m bound up in all my trials and troubles and my sins, but God has forgiven all of them completely.  All I have to do is trust, there is no more worry.  The battle is not over my sins anymore. All I do is look at God, see how wonderful a being he is, and begin to learn to love him and not the spend the time worrying about whether I am going to be saved or not, but spend my time seeing what he is like, and learning to love him and the people around me, and just accepting the power that he gives me to start being like him.

Dr. Nies: If I understand you correctly, I would say yes. But I’m not sure if that is a loaded question.  If you have any illusions that it’s peaches and cream…  [Questioner says: “none”], no way. One challenge to what you’ve said.  You don’t have to be in doubt as to whether you are saved or not. If you are making an investment in God so that you are available to him, your salvation depends upon whether God has access to you. And you don’t have to be agnostic as to whether God has access to you. That’s a choice you have.