NEWSWEEK, July 1, 2002
Interview: 'Arrest Me First'
Controversial Vice President Hamzah Haz defends his choice of friends
Even as the United States and other Western countries have criticized Jakarta for
being complacent about its growing fundamentalist movement, Indonesian Vice
President Hamzah Haz has gone out of his way to be seen publicly with Muslim
firebrands like Laskar Jihad founder Jafar Umar Thalib and Abu Bakar Bashir, a cleric
accused of leading a Southeast Asian terror ring. Haz spoke with NEWSWEEK's Joe
Cochrane and Peter Janssen about why he was suddenly taking so keen an interest
in his Islamist brethren.
Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: There are concerns about the recent meetings you've had with Jafar
Umar Thalib and Abu Bakar Bashir. What kind of a message does this send?
HAZ: The main question here is how to cope with these extremist leaders, so they'll
stay in our corridor in terms of restoring security. The key point is justice. If the
government works on creating justice, these so-called extremists will appreciate that
and become more accommodating. My first step is to have dialogues with them.
You've been quoted as saying there are no terrorists in Indonesia. Are you trying to
underplay the terrorist threat?
Even the national police chief has officially announced that there are no terrorists in
Indonesia. Even the banks here have said there is no evidence terrorists funding local
networks here.
So you deny that there is a terrorist threat to Indonesia?
I met these people personally, and it makes little sense to suspect them of being
terrorists. If they were terrorists, shouldn't they be playing their games underground,
not out in the open? I said earlier, if they're proven to be terrorists I will personally ask
that they e arrested. But if they're not, then
Do you support the adoption of Sharia in Indonesia?
As someone coming from an Islamic party, of course I would like to see Sharia being
implemented. Actually, there is no problem with this in Indonesia.
Sharia has been partially implemented in Aceh province, and people aren't against it.
But we also need to implement the real Islam. Islam gives protection to all man-kind
and creatures on earth. So Sharia should never be taken as athreat to other religions.
It will only be implemented for Muslims, and the implementation should be put in
place gradually.
Indonesia has long been labeled a moderate Muslim country. You're a politician; how
does this affect your campaign strategy?
Again, let me repeat, we should embrace every group in society. When I was elected
as vice president I realized that I belonged to all Indonesians. The non-Muslims also
became part of my job. But if there is a problem among the Muslims, I also have to
solve it. So please don't differentiate between soft,moderate or extremist Muslims.
There is only one Islam. If there are one or hard-liners, that's normal, as long as they
stay within the guidelines.
But you're giving the appearance, at least, of pushing the extremists' agenda. The
things I've done were to maintain political stability, since we need the economy to
recover. That's exactly what I'm working on. We don't want to see any power trying to
disturb security and political stability.
The military is worried about Indonesia's going extremist 10 years down the road. Do
you share their concern?
I don't think Indonesia is moving toward extremism. I don't see any threat that we will
change the Constitution [to make Indonesia an Islamic state]unless there is a foreign
invasion into Indonesia, or Indonesia is colonialized by other nations.
© 2002 Newsweek, Inc.
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