Posted by Cm on Saturday, 13 September 1997, at 11:18 p.m.
Hi I'm a criminal justice/applied psych. student doing my senior paper on serial killers and traumatic events that might of lead then to crime...eg...child abuse, sudden loss of parents, drug abuse, etc. If anyone has any information on any serial killers that some of these things might of happened to please respond. All help is apprecated (Sp?). Thanks CM
Re: serial killers and traumtic events
Posted by Robert on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 1:29 a.m., in response to serial killers and tramitic events, posted by Cm on Saturday, 13 September 1997, at 11:18 p.m.
Hi CM,
I would like to say that the list goes on, and on and on and on...I'm not trying to be sarcasstic but this is true. In nearly every case study with these types of offenders, there is some strand of trauma. Even if there is no obvious "wrong doings" that the offender will generally attempt to fall back on as an etiological issue, one will be found. For example, Ted Bundy's lack of knowing his true parent has come up as a possible cause to his violent and deviant behavior as an adult. Gacy claimed that his father was so overbearing that it finally led to his life as a serial killer. I am convinced that the reason these people kill, not because of terrible early life experiences, but because of there dream content, I.E. Their Fantasies...that would be a more promising work CM.
There is however some correlational evidence that the FBI's study has developed. If you follow this site's links to the psychology of violent crime and then to the library of criminal justice, you can find the studies results there I believe.
The best of luck in your studies.
Robert
Robert
Posted by AJ on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 11:34 a.m., in response to Re: serial killers and tramitic events, posted by Robert on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 1:29 a.m.
I think you're right--some do use it as a cop out. And that the fantasies are major. I also think though that if a child is abused or left alone for too long this enables the fantasy building mechanisms. So really, sometimes it seems that they go hand in hand. What do you think about this idea?
absolute.
Posted by delano on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 12:25 p.m., in response to Robert, posted by AJ on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 11:34 a.m.
ah..this is fun. they love using their past life experiences as excuses, just like the rest of us. it's all in their desires. their inability to restrain so-called id.
let the superego guide you, del.
AJ
Posted by Robert on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 3:33 a.m., in response to Robert, posted by AJ on Sunday, 14 September 1997, at 11:34 a.m.
AJ,
Yes, I agree with the idea that you are presenting in part...that is, there seems to be some correlation with a number of independant events between offenders that may very well set the stage. However, the enjoyment of the fantasies, the offender's complete involvement with these fantasies and the way in which the sex and violence is distributed and intermingled within the subject's mind, these are the real issues.
I understand and accept the fact that because certain events occurred early in an individual's life, they may lead to an isolation in which the fantasies are actually a defense mechanism but so do a lot of other children who never come close to that level of violence.
For example, think for a moment about your sexual orientation...now think about trying to make a complete change in which the opposite becomes stimulating to you. Difficult, if not impossible, for most...same goes for the sex and violence...one cannot exist without the other and this is why they do what they do. This is exactly why sexual predators are so dangerous, once these fantasies are set, they are nearly impossible to change...no successful therapy. I also acknowledge that there are a lot of psychological dynamics that are involved as well but this is for another time... e-mail me if you would like to discuss further.
Robert
Re: AJ
Posted by AJ on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 9:42 a.m., in response to AJ, posted by Robert on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 3:33 a.m.
What I was thinking was that the effects of the isolation let to the future offender into this fantasy/violent desire mode. I mean, let's say a child is severely beaten, then left alone for long periods of time to "stew" over it. Wouldn't this child possbily begin fantasizing revenge? Still though, where does the sex fit into this? Hmmm...?
needs.
Posted by delano on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 1:51 p.m., in response to Re: AJ, posted by AJ on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 9:42 a.m.
curiosity and forbiddenness. that's where sex comes in(ie: gein).
the more it's left isolated, the more the individual gets to fantasize..and it builds from there.
then there's the mixture of the latter and anger(ie: kemper).
like the types...some who never get "some" will want "some" and will finally get it even if it's not right.
the other can't get enough of it and wants more(ie: bundy).
impotence then plays another role, where the perpetrator feels he needs to prove it to himself that he's good enough(ie: chikatilo).
then there's the one who seeks the emotional factor. i guess that would go to maslow's heirarchy of needs including, belongingness and love, all to satisfy their mental states(ie: nilsen).
it's all muddled into one brain...and it builds up because the individual begins to pity himself, therefore justifying revenge and his non-restrainable fantasies.
there are so many factors still...could we ever categorize them all?
del.
Re: Fitting Sex
Posted by Robert on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 6:57 p.m., in response to Re: AJ, posted by AJ on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 9:42 a.m.
AJ,
I see your point and this revenge might very well materialize but then again it might not. Sex fits in a number of different ways, Delano presented a number of valid points. What I was trying to get at was the fact that by far, when discussing serial homicide, sex is the main theme. These dynamics must be understood in order to understand the offenders motivation...now the fantasy component is what is directing these actions. Some known factors such as violent pornography and detective magazines have helped many of these offenders to highten this aspect of their fantasies...that is sex and violence.
So it is my opinion, and I thoroughly stand by this, that although the offender as a child experienced a number of harsh realities, concurrent beatings have not turned the individual into a sexual predator, psychopath maybe...the sexual deviance, their fantasies, this is the causality to these types of crimes. They commit these crimes because it is what they like to do. Most people really enjoy partaking in intimacy and sharing emotions such as love...the serial killer, in order to feel "good" they need to combine the two. This I believe is most often the underlying motivation, it is very complex and many other factors may come into play but this theme is the basis.
Look at almost any of these offenders and although control, or power, etc. may be appearent...their mechanism is almost always sexual.
YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS
Posted by X on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 8:54 p.m., in response to Re: Fitting Sex, posted by Robert on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 6:57 p.m.
The genesis of the critter. Integration of rage, prepubescent feelings and the first exposures to sexuality - when reflecting on the serial killer - would appear that as the killer is coming of age - these elements, which WE see as separate entities, are melded together. The sex has a relation to the rageful feelings, the need for control in a life out of control, and curiosity about sex, which in the killer's anti-social way, can only be explored through pornography.
The killer, not being social, does not have normal interactions with their peers and learn about his sexuality through experimentation, liaisons with peers and other "normal" outlets.
As these urges grow and mutate, the killer's exposure to pornography escalates with a more graphic level of sexuality than his would be peers of his own age. These mutations continue to take on a new life, as the killer does not have access to the real thing.
The common anti-social behaviors of the teenage years, burglary and thievery, now include thefts of womens garments, peeping tom activity and cat buglaries. While at first, these behaviors bring satisfaction (del's word), this is not enough for the long run.
Soon, there is acting out. Whether it be exposures (weenie waggings) or ultimately sexually assaulting of victims. The anti-social behaviors preclude normal relations - i.e., foreplay and mutual satisfaction. The killer has been achieving an erection and ultimately an ejaculation with the mixed medias of his fantasies that evolved from the rage, the frustration, the isolation and the pornography. Why, in a sexual encounter, would his tastes suddenly change. To get that feeling, that rush, that ultimate orgasm, the elements must all be in place.
CONTROL, POWER, SATISFACTION, DEGRADATION, and EJACUALTION are the desired results. The killer is not interested in the romance, the dance of getting there, or the effort to maintain the relationship. For him, it is about fulfillment of his desire.
Sigh, X
well stated.
Posted by delano on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 11:13 p.m., in response to YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS, posted by X on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 8:54 p.m.
what did i say? satisfaction. beats out all the others....reasons for stability..to get that satisfaction that will grant that ultimate feeling of SATISFACTION(sexual). ah...so glad everything is in sync now.
del.
Re: YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS
Posted by AJ--one of the "all-knowing-group" NOT on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 10:48 p.m., in response to YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS, posted by X on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 8:54 p.m.
This is all very thought provoking. So then, are you and Robert saying that child abuse, neglect, and the likes, are not an issue? Something to be discounted? Before the tails fluff, I am honestly interested in your thoughts. All of you. This is not accussatory (I can't spell anymore!!) or argumentative. I think you have each made excellent observations, but (X--it's your favorite word!!) I think the amount of abuse in the childhoods of the guys is amazing. Not an excuse. But I have also said REPEATEDLY that I do not feel that child abuse MAKES a serial killer. I only feel that in some instances, not all because NO serial killer cases are alike, but in some instances, it may be a contributing factor. I repeat: child abuse does not make an offender, but may contribute to the psyche of the offender. Yikes--you guys having me writing longer than I usually do on this board.
we want to get you started.
Posted by delano on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 11:56 p.m., in response to Re: YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS, posted by AJ--one of the "all-knowing-group" NOT on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 10:48 p.m.
child abuses are HUGE (A**) factors. and there's no doubt that i feel remorse for those who have endured unnecessary abuse. abuse that can tear you up mentally, and can strip you from the world forever.
however....we must not hold the abuse fully accountable for their actions. i agree, that abuse contributes to the making of the perpetrator..certainly. and the abuse can certainly heighten the aggression of the culprit. but their perversion has gone in way over their heads....that's what makes them what they are.
what keeps the other abused victims from becoming offenders? what keeps them restrained..away from what the others become? what keeps them from acting out their sexual fantasies? simple. their lack of desire to seek that sort of satisfaction.
simply, what the offenders need is what we don't find needful. we don't need the satisfaction, because we're mentally stable in that section(the other sections? i'm not sure, but i know i'm not stable). we don't feel the need to indulge, because we're fine without it.
so...yes, the abuse is immense..and very influential. it is the hand that loads the gun. but the trigger is the desire for sexual gratification. POW.
anyhow..my thinking...
sin derives from desires in the wrong places of the mind, del.
Oh - Mine Spew Is Only The Tip Of The Iceberg
Posted by X on Tuesday, 16 September 1997, at 12:20 a.m., in response to Re: YEAH! YIPPEE! I'M BEING GOOFY - LIKE DEL GETS, posted by AJ--one of the "all-knowing-group" NOT on Monday, 15 September 1997, at 10:48 p.m.
The rage can come from child abuse - whether emotional, sexual or physical. This can be from a specific event or a series of events. It can come from suppressing responses or internalizing the pain.
All these things are integrated. No one thing is the catalyst. It has to be that magic concoction of all the right ingredients, with the right stimuli and opportunity all kicking in at the same time.
We all know, from experience, that all these elements exist around us on a daily basis . . . but it is that unique configuration, where they all align, just so, that serves as the precipitator for the serial killer.
We are all right. I just had this area - that noone had addressed before - and I'm glad to vent.
X