| Author |
Subject |
ClaraBow
Registered User
(3/24/01 3:28:24 pm)
Reply |
anatomy
of a cellist
What to do if you're
a....um.....er....buxom woman? I've been holding my cello with the
top curve of the cello's body directly below my chest. On-lookers
say it looks as if I'm using the instrument as a "mini-shelf" and
it's very distracting to look at. I used to have cello lessons way
back when I was a single digit age and certainly didn't have this
problem then but am now returning to it as an adult.
My (male)
teacher is young and shy; he won't give me any clear direction on
what I should be doing to correct the problem. However we've been
working on different ways for me to hold the cello. I don't like
having the endpin very long and the cello too high so that my right
hand is tickling my chin when I finger in 1st position. Having it
too low though puts the G string peg into my jawline. How exactly
does the Rostropovich endpin fit around a female's body? I'm worried
that the back plate absorbing sound.
ps. No lewd comments
need apply. I posted this here because I like the anonymity of an
online message board and I'm damn sick and tired of insensitivity
over such an issue.
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Len
Thompson
Registered User
(3/24/01 3:41:03 pm)
Reply |
Re:
anatomy of a cellist
Sorry, But I have no advice for you,
except that you should look back a few pages on this site, because
the very subject was discused recently, with a number of
replies.
Len
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DoDahlberg
Registered User
(3/24/01 5:19:50 pm)
Reply |
It was
called "women only." Something like that
Dorie
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ClaraBow
Registered User
(3/24/01 6:37:43 pm)
Reply |
'women
only' doesn't answer my Q
I did find the titled thread but
what I'm really looking for is serious advice that will help me, not
any unwanted comments that are meant to be cute and "all in good
fun". I haven't been visiting this board often enough to be part of
any cliques so any such teasing will just make this worse for me.
I do position the cello so that my breasts rest on top;
having them under isn't going to work at all. Strategic angling of
the endpin isn't really helping so far, so what now? And does anyone
know where I can find a pic of a woman cellist using a Rostropovich
endpin?
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DoDahlberg
Registered User
(3/24/01 7:18:55 pm)
Reply |
Women
and bent end pins
Clara,
By referring you to the
previous thread on this subject, I believe we were taking you
seriously. If I remember correctly, the outcome of that thread was
that the position of the cello is a personal choice among women
cellists. It didn't seem like there was a right way or wrong way. It
was about comfort. It's true that a bent end pin was not discussed
previously - perhaps it will be addressed now. I changed the title
of my response to draw attention to this detail which is important
to you.
Even though we're not exactly clique-y here, many of
us have been posting a long time and have become friendly. We look
forward to some lighthearted fun, as well as a good fight
(obviously) and all the stuff in-between. A thread, such as the one
several weeks back, did elicit some humorous remarks but it was to
be expected on a mixed board such as this. In spite of the humor,
many women were honest about the positioning of their
cellos.
Please continue to post and join in these
conversations. Hopefully your question will be answered. I, for one,
have never seen - live or in pictures - a woman playing with a bent
end pin. Could be a guy-thing. I honestly don't know.
Dorie
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Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(3/24/01 7:20:19 pm)
Reply |
keep
your hair on....
....no body is going to tease you -
there are plenty of women in this forum.
During my higher
cello education I had a term's lessons with a Russian teacher, which
my usual teacher was ill. This Russian lady was 'buxom' to put it
mildly, as well as being over 6 ft tall. The male students were
terrified of having lessons with her, because they felt that they
could possibly become 'distracted'; she was also fond of the
plunging neck line.
Her 'method' was to have the cello in a
very upright position, sort of in a Baroque fashion, and she had a
multi angle end pin, I can't remember what sort. However, she kept
everything neither under nor over the cello.
I think that
experimentation is the answer - looking for what is comfortable. In
all probability your teacher won't be able to help much. Try getting
some tacit assistance from other lady cellists whom you see
playing.
Also maybe email some CCers, because then you'll be
spared 'teasing'.
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Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(3/24/01 7:21:15 pm)
Reply |
I play
with one.
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DoDahlberg
Registered User
(3/24/01 7:24:12 pm)
Reply |
We're
posting at the same time, Lucy.
Dorie
|
DoDahlberg
Registered User
(3/24/01 7:29:15 pm)
Reply |
Lucy,
I've got to ask you something.
Is "keep your hair on" a regular
British kind of thing to say? It struck me so funny, I think I'm
going to have a break down. My dogs are looking at me like I've
already lost my mind.
Sorry, Clara, Lucy keeps her email
private and I just had to ask.
Dorie
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Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(3/25/01 2:26:47 am)
Reply |
American, isn't it?????
I thought that it was an
Americanism? I don't know! I'll have look it up.
I was going
to say "don't get your knickers in a twist", but that sounded a bit
rude
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Ginger
Van
Registered User
(3/25/01 7:41:42 pm)
Reply |
Re:
anatomy of a cellist
Thanks for this topic! I have often
wondered how others deal with this.
ClaraBow, I share your
"problem." I have always played with my cello below. I started
playing cello when I was 8 and obviously didn't have a problem then.
I don't remember ever being told to keep it below, but that has
always been comfortable for me. I like to lean and sway when I play
and if I am getting intense and lean forward, my cello still stays
in position and dosen't "climb" up to my chin. I couldn't play with
it there!
I've had this discussion with a few of my
developing female students but my ultimate comments to them are
"hold it where it's comfortable for you." My feeling is that lower
is better because then you don't have to reach up to first position
and reach around as much when you shift to upper positions.
I
have experimented with using a very long endpin to simulate the bent
one. It does solve the problem to an extent, but puts the cello at a
whole different angle which takes a lot of getting used to. I have
used the bent endpin approach with students with shorter arms as it
tends to put everything closer. Haven't tried it myself lately,
though.
|
Gablety
Registered User
(3/26/01 8:47:45 pm)
Reply |
I must
be holding it completely wrong!
I hold my cello in a way that no
matter how "buxom" I might be (I do not share your problem, since I
am a male), it would never be a problem; am I holding it completely
wrong? I extend the peg six inches or so, and rest the cello on my
left knee or thigh; all of the fingerboard is in sight and easily
accessible. The cello is at a slight angle, but not as horizontal as
some people hold it. But the cello isn't on my chest or
anything.
However, I am a complete beginner, and this is only
how I play it after two weeks or so with no lessons.
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lblake
Registered User
(3/26/01 9:03:40 pm)
Reply |
Re: I
must be holding it completely wrong!
sorry - computer glitch. posted
twice.
Edited by: lblake
at: 3/26/01 9:03:40 pm
|
lblake
Registered User
(3/26/01 9:03:03 pm)
Reply |
Re: I
must be holding it completely wrong!
Hmm. May be a somewhat subjective
matter, and I'm not the one to give you advice.... but I would ask
you this: do you find you have trouble keeping the bow parallel with
the bridge from tip to frog? And, do you play with the bow contact
point between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge? Just seems
to me like you'd be reaching down an awfully far way, and also that
you'd be working a lot harder than you need to in order to hold the
bow "up."
And, can you reach with your left hand enough to
play down near the end of the fingerboard?
And, if all that
is not a problem, are you a very tall person, and/or playing a very
small cello? Or, do you have extremely long arms? (I could imagine
Andrew Victor possibly able to play that way! 
)
Just wondering. I don't think I could play my cello at all
the way you describe. Hmmmm... now I'm curious!
|
Tracie
Price 
Registered User
(3/26/01 10:55:33 pm)
Reply |
well...
From your description, that's not
sounding very good I'm afraid. It's kind of hard to say without
seeing what you are doing, but in general, the cello should touch
both of your knees and your chest (unless using Mr. Sazer's
method?). You can think of your torso, legs and the cello as making
a right triangle roughly, with the cello at kind of a 45 degree
angle. This is a guideline only, of course, as it depends on the
person, chair, cello, phases of the moon, alignment of the planets
etc. I can't imagine anyone playing with the endpin only out 6
inches though, no chair is that short!
If you can't get a
teacher, at the very least, go to the music store (or online music
store) and get a method book with some good pictures of playing
positions and bow holds in it. You want to make SURE you are getting
into good habits right from the beginning, as it is really difficult
to unlearn poor ones!
Good luck, and welcome to cello
playing!
|
Gablety
Registered User
(3/27/01 11:22:29 pm)
Reply |
How I
hold my cello + TEACHERS!!!!
IBlake, i tried keeping the bow
perpendicular to the string for the entire length, and the only time
I have trouble doing that is on the C string, where I have to swing
the cello out so there's space. However, it feels like the bow is so
long on the other strings!
Also, I tried playing the very
highest registers, and I couldn't go to about an inch of the end on
the A string, and about two inches of the end on the C string. I
might just be sort of leaning over the cello, though.
Tracie,
I don't like having the scroll at or above my head; i want to see
and know what I'm doing! For some reason I don't like having the
cello so high; but the way i do it now it's lower than me.
The cello sort of touches my chest; the higher curve touches
my lower chest. it does touch my left knee; it's sort of leaning on
that, and it sort of touches my right knee; in fact, if i have it
too low, or something, it feels like my right knee is blocking one
of the soundholes. But I thought the 14th century drawings of
cellists holding it right in front of them were really inaccurate,
and the artists were trying to draw everything from the easiest
perspective. On the acoustic bass, you're supposed to stand sort of
on the side of the bass, with the bass pointing at the audience; i
don't see how a cello is any different.
I know i really need
to get a teacher; someone else said so in the "Tuning: HELP!!!"
thread. I also know that it's easier to learn a good habit in the
first place that unlearn a bad one, both by others and my own
experiences. I thought that intuition would be enought to guide me
for some time; it often is. But with the tuning difficulties, I
really should get a teacher. (My sister thinks I should stop even
trying to play until i get a teacher.) I called one twice, but she
hasn't responded yet. Does anyone know of a good teacher (who
doesn't mind rock cello) in the Boston area? or of some such index?
Thanks.
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Tracie
Price
Registered User
(3/28/01 2:43:10 am)
Reply |
cello
vs bass
Cello holding position is completely
different than that of the doublebass. Bassists when standing stand
almost at the side of their instrument, and even when sitting they
have to have it angled more in order to bow, just because of it's
sheer size. Cellists have the instrument more directly centered in
front, so if I was standing directly in front of you, I would have a
front view of the cello, not a side or angled view. Also, in
general, the C-string peg should be behind your left ear more or
less. Your knees need to be on the sides of the cello, not anywhere
near the soundholes. If you can see the whole fingerboard (or even
the whole cello!) while playing without turning your head, you're
not holding the instrument properly.
There are a lot of
pictures of cellists in the photo gallery on the ICS website- take a
look at them for some guidance if you can't wait for a teacher to
help you.
Best wishes
Tracie
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MsCheryl
.gif)
Registered User
(3/28/01 9:20:48 am)
Reply |
14th
century artists
They were probably painting cellists
(or gambists?) with no endpins, which makes for an entirely
different hold - try it yourself. You end up with the cello right in
front and a little lower than present day positions.
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sarah
schenkman
Registered User
(3/28/01 5:19:20 pm)
Reply |
Re:
keep your hair on....
It's "keep your shirt on", isn't
it?
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DWThomas
Registered User
(3/28/01 10:10:55 pm)
Reply |
Hmm --
Maybe it's a hair shirt
Or just in time for the Easter
Rodent, a Hare Shirt..
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phesketh
Registered User
(3/29/01 8:37:56 pm)
Reply |
cello
position
I have a similar anatomy problem and
worked with my first (female) teacher to fix it (and to stop getting
rosin on my jeans).
our solution was a long end pin (second
teacher says bent would
work too) ... and angling the cello so
it is on top of my left knee and leaning on my right knee. This sort
of makes it comfortable to lean
against the breasts (mostly
between because of the angle) and
all the positions are reachable
and the bowings are not awkward.
Might it be possible for you
to take a lesson or two with a female teacher just to try out
various positions and see what works for you? I can understand that
it might be a bit embarassing with a male teacher.
Or go to
summerkeys next summer (waitlisted this summer) and
work with
Yari. She is really good about positioning and helping you get the
cello in a natural position for your body type.
Paula
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