| Author |
Subject |
drcello
Registered User
(4/3/01 7:56:52 pm)
Reply | Edit
 |
I'm
just "trilled" to meet you!
Anyone got any good advice, or an
etude to recommend, that could help speed up a slow trills problem?
Also, anyone ever use the "swing the whole hand trill" which changes
your vibrato into a trill?
Marshall C. St. John
drcello@mindspring.com
Cello Heaven
|
trilled
Registered User
(4/3/01 8:10:18 pm)
Reply |
re
Naturally I had to reply to this
post!
I don't know of any etudes but there's a nice passage from
the Brahms Double Concerto that has lots of trills that may be of
some use. In my International edition it's bars 244-257.
|
zambocello
Registered User
(4/4/01 1:54:19 am)
Reply |
Re: I'm
just "trilled" to meet you!
Hmmmmm.....I can't bring to mind any
trill-specific etudes. They must exist, though. Any piece that
exercises the lifting of the LH fingers would be practicing much of
the same technique. Cossman #1 comes to mind or Francois Schubert
"The Bee."
|
CordulaR
Registered User
(4/4/01 2:16:02 am)
Reply |
Re: I'm
just "trilled" to meet you!
there is an etude by Battanchon for
trills. It is in the Stutchevsky band 2 (perhaps 3). If you want to
speed up your trills make sure that your hand is as relaxed as
possible, especially the fingers that are not directly involved in
the trilling movement. Difficult to explain when I cannot see you,
perhaps you better ask a live teacher.
About the 'vibrato trill':
I should do a lot of finger strengthening first, Cossman 1 and
etudes like this Battanchon and than use a little of the
vibratomovement as an extra.
Cordula
|
Bob
Registered User
(4/4/01 6:57:28 am)
Reply |
Servais
#5 should do it
|
Spree218
Registered User
(4/4/01 7:30:07 am)
Reply |
Re: I'm
just "trilled" to meet you!
Last year Jeff Solow gave a
masterclass here, and he gave a great suggestion about trill
practice. His trill exercise is:
1) Bring finger as far above
fingerboard as possible (while all others are on board in playing
position).
2) Smack finger down as fast as possible on chosen
note.
3) Bring finger back up as fast as possible.
4) Smack
finger down as fast as possible.
etc etc etc...
The
time between bringing the finger up and smacking it down doesn't
matter, as long as both the up and down movements are as fast as
possible.
It is quite effective as a trill exercise.
|
zambocello
Registered User
(4/4/01 6:38:48 pm)
Reply |
Solow's
exercise
Interesting idea...... Maybe it is a
good exercise in slow time. The problem with many trills in real
life though is that the finger gets lifted too high, no?
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(4/4/01 7:29:46 pm)
Reply
 |
Re:
Solow's exercise
I agree, if you tried to go such a
long distance at any kind of speed, you'd really get
fatiqued.
If your hand is so well balanced that whatever
finger you play on transfers the weight of your arm and shoulder
into the string, the same effect as smacking your finger down
(ouch!) should happen. The total PSI of a finger smack is porably
less than when the weight of the arm and shoulder are transfered
into the string. In the latter case, distance is not needed as it is
in Sollow's exercise (where I suppose the greater the distance the
more of a wind-up and velocity is attained). So since distance isn't
a factor for clarity (when proper balance is applied), reducing the
distance will help you trill faster without losing any
clarity.
Also, since lack of tension will help a lot, try
using 1-3 for whole step trills instead of 1-2. This is something I
discovered later in life watching Slava play. It makes sense...why
stretch when you don't have to, especially when playing fast?
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Spree218
Registered User
(4/4/01 9:05:39 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Solow's exercise
The idea, I believe, is that trills
are often unclear BECAUSE the finger does not come far enough off
the fingerboard. Instead of clarity, the result is a buzzing sound
or uneven, really wide vibrato. I've been using Solow's trill
exercise for a few months and have noticed definite results in the
clarity/speed of trills. As Solow mentioned, the only movements that
have an effect on the sound of the trill are the force of the finger
striking the string (less force=muffled, unclear pitch) and the
rapidity of the strikes. His exercise works to improve the accuracy
of finger placement as well as the speed of the finger reflexes. I
remember that Mr. Solow had mentioned that he thought this was
really the only trill exercise needed, and I'm beginning to agree
with him. BTW, the passage being discussed when the trill exercise
came about was the double-stop trill section in the last mvmnt of
Dvorak.
|
Ponticello
Registered User
(4/5/01 4:46:22 am)
Reply |
Kodaly
sonata trills
I'm not a repetoire expert, but I'm
doing the Kodaly sonata 1st movement now, and I have never seen such
a trill nightmare. I'm having alot of difficulty getting the super
high trills to sound like individual eight notes and not just a mush
of high notes. Hopefully the excercise you have described will
help
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(4/5/01 1:01:45 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Solow's exercise
I see what you mean. I guess it IS
possible to not have enough distance between your fingers and the
string when trilling. In that case I can see wehre there might be
some muddiness. I think I'd be cautious not to over do this exercise
and not to actually trill this way as it could produce tension. As
an exercise alone, I guess I can see the sense in it.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
Free Cello Music!
|
Victor
Sazer
Registered
User
(4/5/01 2:15:03 pm)
Reply |
I'm
just "trilled" to meet you!
Finding an etude will not
necessarily provide the best solution. Playing trills has more to do
with the way you align your body (arm, hand, fingers) and your
methodology.
It has less to do with finger strength or
simply practicing more trills in etudes or repertoire in the same
way. Quantity will not necessarily improve quality.
You
might try this:
1. Release your thumb
from the neck of the cello
2.
Bring your hand and wrist above the fingerboard
3.
Aim your fingers toward the low side of the
string (for experimental purposes, you can even play under the
string)
4. Trill, focusing on the
up-stroke, rather than smacking the string.
5.
Try to establish a light, spring-like action. Allow
your arm to move freely to participate in the process
6. Raise and lower your arm and
wrist and move in all directions slowly, (you might also raise and
lower you base joints) as you do this, exploring, to find the freest
and springiest alignment
7. Keep
the strokes short (the shorter the distance, the faster the
speed)
When you find the alignment that works best for you
for each finger and the spring-like action, you will very likely
have no more problems with trill speed.
By focusing on the
up-stoke, you will get two for one, because your finger will do the
down-stroke automatically. In addition, you might notice that as
long as you draw a good sound with your bow, the notes will speak
with clarity, even without the string touching the fingerboard.
This approach can be adapted to all fast playing.
.
|
Email This To a
Friend
Topic Commands
(Moderator only)
Music
Resources 
