| Author |
Subject |
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(3/28/01 2:57:45 pm)
Reply
 |
Ressurecting the Vibrato question
Sorry to bring it up again, but this
time I have a more specific question for you all.
What is the
most challenging aspect of vibrato for you and how do you overcome
it? Is it width, speed, continuity, all of the above?
My
biggest challenge these days is to stay relaxed AND get a much
faster vibrato. Anyone have any ideas for me (don't get cute,
now!...on second thought, go ahead, shares some zingers too!) 
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
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zambocello
Registered User
(3/28/01 3:30:46 pm)
Reply |
I gave
up vibrato for Lent
Seriously, strange as it may sound,
my bugaboo is keeping my vibrato (and my whole LH technique) in line
with the string when I'm playing hard or under tension. Of course
the larger question is how to not take on so much tension.) When
playing "hard" I find my LH is "aimed" way out to the left of the
string's line.
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Spree218
Registered User
(3/28/01 3:57:05 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Ressurecting the Vibrato question
Definitely width. I find that when I
really understand a phrase, the continuous vibrato occurs naturally
and the speed varies. But for whatever reason, the width is really
hard for me to consciously control. It's something I work on
everyday.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(3/28/01 4:11:38 pm)
Reply
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Don't
fight it! Get in line!
Zambo,
Fegilson taught me
about how Slava holds his cello. He has the fingerboard pointing out
to the left (bottom of the fingerboard by the bridge). This sets the
strings in your natural path. To prove this. While away from your
cello, hold your left hand up as if it were in 1st position...now
begin to lower your hand and note which way your left hand moves. It
goes OUT to the left, not into the middle of your body. Why should
we put the fingerboard path contrary to where the left hand WANTS to
go naturally? If you were to have to reach into your center around
the cello (if the fingerboard and bottom of the cello point to the
right) you'd have to reach AROUND the cello with your left should a
lot! Ouch! To think, I played that way for YEARS!
I
used to play with fingerboard pointing into the center of my...body
(I think many students and even Yo Yo does that). But after he
explained this to me and it made so much sense, I tried it.
I
used to have a problem of sometimes falling off the fingerboard in
thumb postion. After making this adjustment, it almost never
happened again. My left arm was happy as a clam because it was
moving in a natural path.
The added plus about this is
that your RIGHT arm won't have to stretch so much to get to the tip
of the bow since you've moved the strings out to the left. Your bow
arm will be more relaxed too and probably will retain a nice L-shape
as you get to the tip.
Why don't you give this a try, just
for grins
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
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zambocello
Registered User
(3/28/01 4:25:55 pm)
Reply |
But
where do you put your left leg?
Actually, I know what you mean. I
bias the cello that way a little. In my case, when I am convinced
that I'm playing something so important I should tense every muscle
in my body, I point down the cello rather than shifting the whole LH
carriage down the cello, causing the hand's line to be out left of
the string's.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(3/28/01 4:58:56 pm)
Reply
|
You put
your left leg in, you put your left leg...
Hmmm....about the leg, Since I use a
bent endpin, the cello doesn't really snag my left knee. My left
knee is almost behind the cello (hard to explain in
words).
I'm having some difficulty understanding your
description. If you already point the fingerboard out to the left
(at the bottom) then wouldn't pointing straight down the cello put
you to the right of the string? By straight down the cello are you
talking about parallel to the cello or perpendicular?
One of
the things Pantaleyev repeatedly told me (quoting Slava) was the the
bigger the sound (or more intense the playing) the more RELAXED you
must be. This of course is contrary to what our natural inclinations
are, but it's so true (Especially in the Prokofiev
Symphony-Concerto).
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
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sarah
schenkman
Registered User
(3/28/01 5:23:00 pm)
Reply |
Re: You
put your left leg in, you put your left le
- then you shake it all about.
We're talking about vibrato, right?
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Christopher
Chan
Registered
User
(3/28/01 10:16:44 pm)
Reply
 |
left?
I'm probably just not
conceptualizing left and right properly in your description. I
always think of my left hand moving to the right when i play in the
upper register. The scroll should point to your left, which would
mean you hand needs to move in the opposite direction, to the right,
right? I think Mr. Sazer addressed this well in his book.
 <--
left knee behind cello, endpin at slight angle.
Also,
something that wasn't addressed in the previous bent endpin
discussion, the endpin shouldn't be perfectly aligned in the center
of the cello, it should lean toward your left a bit. I think people
with stahlhammers should have their luthier rotate the collar a bit
get that lean. The luthier who put it on an old cello of mine
perfectly centered it, so it didn't feel right. I know cellists like
Han-na Chang and David Finckel have it centered, so i could be way
off. If you notice Slava always has his off center. See pic 3.
-confused
Edited by: Christopher
Chan at: 3/28/01 10:16:44 pm
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(3/29/01 12:23:39 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
left?
Chris,
Fabulous pictures,
where did you get them?
It's really tricky to see from
pictures what I'm talking about since they are taken from different
angles. Also, depending on which way the cellist is leaning, if he
isn't facing the camera at a perfectly square angle it might look
different.
I think your third picture shows it best. However,
I'm not sure that it's intentional that the bent endpin is slight
rotated.
1. It could easily be an optical illusion depending
on how the cello is turned (relative to the camera)
2. If he's
using a traditional endpin that was custom bent, sometimes the
actual endpin rod turns off center as you lean on the cello (not a
desired effect, in my opinion, from experience)
Though it may
not be entirely possible to put the lower part of the fingerboard at
an extreme angle to the left, you will notice that the top of the
fingerboard is pretty close to his neck. Actually, it's not just the
bottom of the cello that's leans to the left, it's most of the cello
sitting more to your left than in the center. The peg box is the
only part that is closer to your own neck (as in pic. 10
The
second picture you display foils this principal (apparently) but
remember, I said that this is a slight angle. If you are doing it
correctly, it will end up looking like pictures# 1,3 and 4
(sometimes) Remember, Slava moves and leans a lot too.
Just
for the record, I'm not making this up Josif Feigilson studied with
Rostropovich in the Moscow Conservatory while Slava was pretty much
banned from giving concerts. Because of that, Feigilson received
about 2 lessons a week for a couple of years from him.
Much
of this depends too on how you yourself sit relative to the cello
and to the audience.
Channing Robbins taught me to sit at an
angle to the audience with my right knee pointing foward more and my
left knee back a bit. Right shoulder pointing at 2 o'clock and left
shoulder pointing at 7 o'clock.
Pantaleyev changed that so
that I was facing the audience square-on. Left shoulder at 9 o'clock
and right shoulder at 3 o'clock. (See picture 1).
There are
times where you might reach or lean your shoulders more forwards or
back depending on what you are playing.
Still pictures are
good but they can be deceiving. I think it's better to watch a video
of Slava to know this.
hnctv.hnc.com:21130/ramge...akslava.rm
(You
will have to have a broadband connection to see that clip well,
though.)
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Rich
Rodriguez
Registered User
(3/29/01 1:29:58 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Ressurecting the Vibrato question
Paul,
Was that link of
Rostropovich on your private server? If not where did you find it
and where can I find more of these goodies?
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(3/29/01 2:38:05 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Ressurecting the Vibrato question
Rich,
I can neither confirm
nor deny that statement.
Sorry.
email me in private though if you want to know
more about where I found it.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Christopher
Chan
Registered
User
(3/29/01 5:23:32 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
left?
hee hee... i can see me in the
video... that concert was soo much fun! champagne and strawberries.
anyway, i have a few videos of slava playing and the endpin
is definately always offset.
also, about tv sound quality,
phil myers the french horn player made a very noticable squeek in
the opening of the dvorak, and you barely noticed it in the tv
broadcast.
i want to know what cello slava was playing, it
wasn't his strad. Finckel told me slava has been using his Storioni,
but i remember reading that slava gave his storioni to his daughter,
so who knows. i think it was Bob and Deena Spear's cello, but that's
just a guess.
the pictures come from various cd jackets,
magazines, newspapers, etc. that i've scanned through the years. If
you would like big versions of them, just email me Paul.
the
endpin is a little more offset than it normally is in this pic, i'll
try and find a better one.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(3/29/01 6:01:53 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
left?
Chris,
Hmmmm... I really
thought the cello he played was his Strad. But you were there at the
concert and I wasn't.
So you see in this picture with Richter
that his endpin is a bit rolled over. As I said, I don't think this
is done intentionally. There are many more cases where it's not
rolled over. My bent endpin used to roll too and it didn't really
have any impact on my playing or comfort. It just looked weird (like
in this picture). I solved that by having my luthier file one side
of the rod flat (obviously, the side that the thumbscrew tightens
onto).
Now, notice how the fingerboard points down and to HIS
left?
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Christopher
Chan
Registered
User
(3/29/01 11:33:13 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
left?
About the strad discussion, i
figured that the cello was not his strad b/c it didn't have a wolf
eliminator on the G, the pegs were different (yeah i know he could
have changed them), they looked rosewood, and i'm pretty sure his
strad has gold capped ebony pegs, the cello's color was wrong, it
was a bit too red, and it looked too new, not having the wear his
strad does.
I thought the instrument sounded a bit thin too,
but it was still an incredible instrument, it had a lot of power.
Does any know what kind of bow slava uses?
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Matthew
Tifford
Registered
User
(3/30/01 11:13:59 pm)
Reply |
Spear
Cello
Do you know Bob and Deena? I play
one of their cello's, made a year or two after Slava's. I can't tell
from this picture whether it is one, I'd have to see it up close to
tell.
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Matthew
Tifford
Registered
User
(3/30/01 11:18:30 pm)
Reply |
Video
When I click on your link to the
Slava video, nothing happens. Any suggestions?
|
Martine
M 
Registered User
(3/31/01 4:41:06 am)
Reply |
thank
you soooo much for the movie and the pic's !
Would it be ok for me to create a link to the movie at my homepage
?? Of course I'll thank you for it at the page and link to your
site. But if you prefer not to have links to your movie, that's OK
too. Thanx for sharing it with us !!
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(4/2/01 11:12:25 am)
Reply
|
Re:
Video
It will probably only work on a
broadband connection like Cable Modem or DSL. The bitrate is too
high for a dial up modem. Sorry.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
(4/2/01 11:13:31 am)
Reply
|
Re:
thank you soooo much for the movie and the pic's !
Martine,
Sure, go aheand and
link to it, but don't thank me for it because I'm not really
responsible for this link. I'm not sure how long it will stay up
there either.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's website
MP3!
|
Martine
M
Registered User
(4/3/01 1:04:11 pm)
Reply |
thnx !!
:)
That's ok, I'll make a copy of it on
my harddrive and when someone takes it off, I'll host the copy
somewhere and link to it. Thanks again !!
xxx Martine.
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