| Author |
Subject |
Bob
Blais
Registered
User
(1/8/01 9:19:45 pm)
Reply |
rest
position for cello
Hello all,
I was just wondering
what everyone did with their cello while not playing it. I have
always rested the scroll in a chair, but a luthier that I just did a
gig with said that it was terrible for the neck. On the other hand,
The sides of my cello have gotten scratched up from resting on rough
floors. I do have a stand for at home, but that is a bit much to
carry everywhere. What does everyone do?
Bob
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MaryK
Registered User
(1/8/01 11:09:03 pm)
Reply
 |
Re:
rest position for cello
Mine always goes back in its case,
whether at home, at a rehearsal, concert, etc. Too many horror
stories out there to leave it unprotected, IMO!
MaryK
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Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(1/9/01 3:16:42 am)
Reply |
Re:
rest position for cello
At home, my cello resides in a
corner, on its side, in my bedroom and the spot is not unduly cold,
nor does it get the sun. It is quite safe there.
When out and
about, it is tricky to put it away during break, because I use a
soft case, so I put it out of the way - such as under an unmovable
table.
At youth orchestra I don't put it anywhere, because we're
all very good about not touching what doesn't concern
it.
However, I carry a thin towel in my cello case, and have
spares at home, for purposes of dusting. If the floor looks dodgy I
spread it out, and rest my cello on that.
|
Steve
Drake
Registered
User
(1/9/01 9:12:57 am)
Reply |
Re:
rest position for cello
Almost always I put it back in the
case during breaks. And I wish more people did that - it's a pain to
have to find a way around the wall of cellos on their sides at break
times, or find some circuitous route around them. I'm very
uncomfortable about stepping over someone elses cello. In a crowded
pit I'll often leave it on it's side, however, rather than negotiate
all the close chairs and stands.
Never leave your cello with
the scroll on the chair. This puts a huge strain on some of the most
sensitive joints on the cello, and is just asking for trouble.
Leaving the cello on it's side does wear the finish, but you
can alleviate this somewhat by putting a coat of clear nail polish
over the affected areas.
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage
|
DavidS000
Registered User
(1/9/01 5:37:18 pm)
Reply |
rest
position for cello
I have a video of Jacqueline Du Pre.
During a recording break, she simply placed the cello on the floor,
balancing on its side, with the bow placed across the upward side.
|
Gablety
Registered User
(3/26/01 7:56:11 pm)
Reply |
Soft
case, piano
I have a soft case, too, so it is
hard to put it away properly for everything. When I'm not playing
itr for the day, that is for several hours, i put it in its case and
prop it up in the corner formed by the upright piano and the wall.
It is in the sun, though, so i should probably find a better place
for it (it's next to a south window, and that window isn't in any
house-shadow). If I'm going to need to let it stand for just a few
minutes, I have another person hold it upright or I lean it in that
same corner. The cello tips section said to never store a cello on
its side, so I don't. However, from your descriptions, this method
also puts a lot of strain on the neck. Is this so? Which is the best
method?
|
Len
Thompson
Registered User
(3/26/01 8:32:05 pm)
Reply |
DuPre's
method!
I'm sure many of you have seen that
movie about DuPre. Do you recall the scene where, when "quite done"
with her cello, she promptly put it out on the balcony, in the
rain!, resting against the neck no less! Hey, was that the Strad? 
Len
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lblake
Registered User
(3/26/01 9:17:07 pm)
Reply |
Re:
rest position for cello
That's what I do. I also retract the
endpin. (people seem to see cellos, but NEVER see endpins.) But, I
also rarely leave my cello during a break. I only lay it down if for
some reason I can't keep holding it. Usually, I stand up and stretch
my legs, and it stands with me.
|
DoDahlberg
Registered User
(3/27/01 6:17:11 am)
Reply |
Re:
DuPre's method!
Let's be careful about the factual
information in that film; remember she was supposed to be mad at the
thing in that scene and it got itself back into the room later in
the sequence. My cello's pretty cool but it can't open balcony doors
and spook me in the night.
Dorie
|
FrozenYankee
Registered User
(3/27/01 6:59:04 am)
Reply |
Casals
did it.
I have a video of Casals resting the
scroll on a chair with the belly (the cello's, not his) pointing up.
Looks scarey to me but...
I can't believe that it puts a
"strain" on the neck. The neck is built to withstand the strain of 4
strings constantly pulling downwards. That's a much bigger strain
than the weight of the instrument resting on its
scroll.
Richard
|
Steve
Drake
Registered
User
(3/27/01 11:28:30 am)
Reply |
Re:
Casals did it.
Think about the physical forces
involved - the strings put a certain amount of tension on the neck,
but it is in the same direction as the neck, so the actual force on
the neck is neglible. Resting the scroll of the neck on a chair,
however, puts the whole weight of the cello on the neck, at an acute
angle, in an unstable position. If there are any small problems with
the various joints involved, this can become a big problem fast. Why
take risks? Just because Casals fell off a cliff when he was
young....
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage
|
DWThomas
Registered User
(3/27/01 12:57:35 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Casals did it.
The scroll on chair/belly up method
definitely reduces the tolerance for abuse. About a year and a half
ago, my teacher left hers in that position. The chair was a very low
(think "kid's size") folding metal chair with a padded seat. While
she was briefly away from it, the neck slid off the chair. There was
nothing for it to hit, the instrument couldn't have dropped more
than a few inches because of the thickness of the
body.
>>Kaplooie!!<< 
The neck snapped right in the middle of the "heel" and
things went flying.
I had the dubious distinction of arriving
for my lesson only minutes after she discovered what had happened.
(It's a circa 1910 Hill.) We carefully put away the pieces. She
packed it off to her luthier and it now has a new neck (a repair
that probably cost more than my instrument).
String tension
puts the neck (mostly) in compression parallel to the wood grain.
Hanging the instrument puts the neck in tension, again parallel to
the grain. Leaning on the scroll puts the neck in shear; essentially
tension across the grain -- the weakest attribute of wood.
Dave
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lblake
Registered User
(3/27/01 9:36:13 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Casals did it.
can't believe it puts a strain on
the neck? Think of this as a comparison:
string tension on
neck = tension in your spine, while standing upright
tension
of weight of cello upon neck while scroll rests on chairseat =
tension in your spine, while bending forward at the waist, and
holding a yoke across your shoulders
May not be a perfect
example, but it seems similar, at least.
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Zaraak
Registered User
(3/27/01 9:48:46 pm)
Reply
 |
Not
really a proper comparison...
...as you stated.
When
lifting heavy things everyone is taught to "lift with your knees".
If you tried to lift, say a 30 lb weight whilst bent at the waist,
chances are you'd wretch your back and be laid up for weeks. If you
were to lift properly and bend your knees and lift it straight up it
would be much easier and better for your back. I can't really argue
this as I'm not a osteopath or anything related, just an amateur
weight-lifter.
Greg
|
Gablety
Registered User
(3/27/01 10:34:32 pm)
Reply |
Actually...
...your butt muscles are among the
strongest muscles in your body; if you "lift with your knees" you're
really lifting with your butt. That's just one of the things it was
meant to do.
When I lean my cello in the corner, I actually
sort of lean it on its neck; the scroll touches the corner. Would it
be better if the corners of the cello touch instead? i tried this,
and it feels sort of "safer".
|
cellochris99
Registered User
(3/28/01 5:04:29 am)
Reply |
re:actually
Yes, it's better to lean a cello
against the upper bout corners(belly toward corner) when propped in
a corner. I used to play Double bass and that's really the ideal way
to store them,- it's MUCH more stable, and it's more out of the way
of harm in that position.
However, if you place your cello in
a corner, with it's weight bearing on the scroll or neck, it's just
like leaving it laying against a chair (as mentioned earlier)
because the same principles of force are applying against the neck,
just to a little lesser degree and direction. This is also sort of
unstable since the endpin could slip, hence the angle of the cello
against the corner that way.
Chris
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jdacheetah
Registered User
(3/28/01 6:33:59 am)
Reply |
Re:
Casals did it.
Just out of curiosity...after your
teacher replaced the neck, did the cello sound okay? I'm sure
something like that would have a disturbance in tonal quality. BTW,
my teacher's cello is dated at 1890. (Lovely instrument!) I couldn't
imagine such an atrocity happening to his cello.
Jeremy
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DWThomas
Registered User
(3/28/01 7:59:58 am)
Reply |
Necks
The neck replacement did not
seem to have any major effect on the sound. Of course, my lesson
repertoire doesn't exactly explore the instrument's entire
range!
The work was done by a man who builds from scratch as
well as repairs. As far as I know, the original scroll, fingerboard,
etc. were retained. Assuming careful attention to details and
alignment, such an operation probably shouldn't have too much effect
on sound. Some instruments wind up having the neck re-set after
sagging because the instrument has changed shape over many years. I
believe many of the legendary instruments from centuries back have
had major neck work to "upgrade" them from their Baroque
set-up.
In addition to the potential of damage to sound
qualities, the amount of work and caliber of craftsperson required
to do it well certainly makes it economically desirable to avoid
such an operation if possible.
So treat your instrument with
care and keep it out of the way of clumsy
passers-by.
Dave
|
zambocello
Registered User
(3/28/01 4:00:55 pm)
Reply |
Re:
rest position for cello
I often leave my cello resting on a
chair, belly up. But I don't leave the weight on the scroll, I make
sure the cello's neck is what's resting on the chair. If the chair
is shaped so the scroll touches before the neck I roll up my dust
cloth to support the neck and spare the scroll.
Here's what I
just learned with my cello:
The cello weighs 7 pounds. With
the cello rested on the scroll (the end pin is out about 14" and the
cello nearly parallel to the ground) there is about 3 lbs of weight
on the scroll. In the same position with the weight supported by the
neck at about 3rd position there is about 4 lbs of weight on the
neck. The stress on the neck joint is WAY less though because of the
greatly diminished leverage.
I feel this is much safer than
laying the cello on it's side, especially when getting the cello up
and down a lot, as when I am teaching. Also, civilians are less
inclined to step over a cello in this position than one laying on
its side.
In real life (or at least when I'm teaching) I lean
my cello very close to the neck joint against a padded arm chair at
about a 45 degree angle, so I think in this case there is little
more stress on the neck joint than when holding the cello. In my
case I'm more worried about the scroll than the neck joint. I have a
significant crack at the bottom of the peg box, If it gets any worse
the cello is due for a neck graft. Besides being cheap I'm trying to
conserve the original (1815) neck as long as possible.
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cellochris99
Registered User
(3/29/01 6:20:10 am)
Reply |
high
positions
I was just thinking; when I'm
pressing down on the string into the fingerboard in the high
positions, it seems like that would be putting some extra strain on
the neck too, since the finger board acts as a lever, counteracting
the pressure you apply at the extreme end by pulling the neck and
heel unit forward. Am I right?
Chris
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johnblue
Registered User
(4/1/01 1:21:58 am)
Reply |
Re:
rest position for cello
I found a stand for about 35 dollars
at Phillip Weinkrantz in San Francisco. It works like a collapsible
guitar stand and goes everywhere easily. Maybe one could mail
order...
|
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