| Author |
Subject |
Tim
Finholt 
Global user
(5/17/00 9:11:02 pm)
Reply |
Talent
It's so nice to find refuge from the
drama of Cello Chat, ain't it?
Anyway, I want to talk about
talent. A year or two ago, I took some aptitude tests from the
Johnson O'Connor Research Institute. There were tests for all sorts
of things (kind of like IQ tests), including "ideaphoria" (sort of a
creativity index), pitch discrimination, tonal memory, rhythmic
memory, fine motor control, analytical thinking, visual memory,
spatial relationships, etc. The results are then compared with the
many thousands of others who have taken the same tests. They then
tell you what people with your particular combination of aptitudes
would typically enjoy doing, the theory being that people tend to
enjoy doing things that they are naturally good at. They are not
saying that we cannot learn to be quite good at skills that are not
in our aptitudes, i.e. hard work CAN pay off, only that certain
things come more naturally to certain people.
My point? Well,
I don't exactly have one, but I thought it might be interesting to
pre-test people to see which instrument they would enjoy more, or at
least be better suited to (unfortunately the testing isn't cheap). I
was told by the tester that somebody with a lower pitch
discrimination index might want to consider playing the piano
instead of a string instrument, or perhaps a percussion instrument
(other than timpani). Somebody with a low tonal memory or visual
memory index may not be suited for a career as a soloist. Somebody
with low fine motor control may want to stay away from a string
instruments. And so on.
I have always treated these kinds of
tests with a grain of salt, but they are somewhat fun to think
about, at least when I'm in the right touchy-feely mood.
I
sometimes ask people, "Is there such a thing as somebody with no
talent for their instrument?" Based on the Johnson-O'Connor tests,
the answer could very well be "yes" in certain
cases.
Thoughts?
Edited by Tim
Finholt at: 5/17/00 9:11:02
pm
|
Tracie
Price 
Local user
(5/17/00 10:07:20 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Talent
"Is there such a thing as somebody
with no talent for their instrument?"
I think the answer is
yes.
Almost everyone has run across someone who is playing an
instrument for which they have little aptitude. They struggle
endlessly and seem to make little progress.
However, this is
such a complex topic. I personally don't like the idea of labeling
kids' talent levels, because I feel that it can discourage kids who
are not branded smart and talented. Lord knows it's hard enough to
be a kid and deal with peers teasing you without having someone come
right out and say "You aren't suited for the violin, here's a
triangle." Kids should be encouraged to sample things and see what
activities and areas of study they are drawn to. Their aptitudes
will generally show through, and this way, they can feel that they
have made the decision to pursue a particular avenue rather than
being pigeon-holed into something because some test administrator
who doesn't even know them said they have abilities in one area or
another. In reality, there are many things to be learned from
studying a musical instrument, regardless of one's level of talent.
I don't believe people should be mislead into thinking they will
become great virtuoso players when it's unlikely, but let people go
as far as they can without a limit being applied by some
test.
I don't believe necessarily that having an aptitude for
something means you will enjoy doing that thing. I personally have a
very high aptitude for math, yet I really don't like it. I'm sure it
spills over into theory, and logic, which do interest me, but math
itself I've never enjoyed even though it has always been easy for
me. There are also many talented musicians who have come to hate
music due to other influences such as pushy parents or bad
experiences. They have an aptitude for it, but don't want to play
anymore. It used to sadden me greatly when I would come across a
student like that.
Then again, I wish someone would have
recognized my musical aptitude and interest when I was very young.
Now that I look back, it was evident in many ways, but was never
encouraged. I remember hearing strings on the radio (one of my
favorite toys was the radio, the other was a little record player)
and wondering what made that sound. I was fascinated by that smooth,
seamless sound. I did finally start piano when I was 8 after begging
to play for several years. Sometimes I wonder how things would be
different if I started cello at a much younger age. That's pretty
much a pointless train of thought though.
So I guess I don't
have any answers either. Just some thoughts.
-Tracie
|
dennisw
Global user
(6/12/00 7:00:09 pm)
Reply |
Talent
I think the whole test is complete
and
total b.s. It sounds like a bunch of
professors at some
university don't have
anything useful to do (which is
usually
the case) so to amuse themselves they
have decided on
another in a series of
aptitude tests to determine native
talent
in music.
If Elvis Presely had taken this "test"
he
would have been advised to remain a
truck
driver.
|
Bob
Local user
(6/12/00 8:35:29 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Talent
With respect; do you fit the
criteria for those allowed to post on the PPE board?
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(6/12/00 9:40:25 pm)
Reply
 |
Criteria
Bob,
That is an excellent
question. Are you questioning dennissw's age, status as a
professional performer or teacher? Why are you questioning it?
Or are you questioning his opinion or means of expressing
it? Does something about his question make him suspect in your
eyes?
I only mean to question (with respect) the relevance
your question to dennissw with the topic of this thread.
If
he doesn't fit the criteria, is he not allowed to have a strong
opinion which may be contrary to some/most?
If He DOES fit,
is he then allowed to have such an opinion?
Just
wondering.
Paul Tseng, Cello Chat Administrator
Today's Quote
My Website - New and
Improved!
The San Diego
Cello Society Edited by
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff at: 6/12/00 9:40:25
pm
|
Tom
Flaherty
Global
user
(6/12/00 10:52:12 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Talent
Tim, many years ago our third grade
class was given a primitive version of what you described. It was
basically listening to sine tones and identifying whether they rose
or fell in pitch. I guess I did ok, so the head of the music
department said I should learn a string instrument and play in his
orchestra. I was fairly tall, and they had some spare cellos, so off
I went. Someone was obviously thinking along these lines in the
early fifties.
My wife teaches violin and sometimes comes
across students who have a good sense of rhythm and musical shaping,
but just can't play in tune. They often succeed on piano. There are
so many roles to take in music; I'm not surprised that different
sets of capabilities flourish more in one area than another. Then
there is my brother, who enjoys whistling tunes whose pitches and
rhythm only he can identify; some have difficulty finding any
comfortable role.
As for dennisw, I have no reason to think
that you are underage, but your remarks do make me suspect that you
are a college administrator.
-Tom
|
vlcgirl
Global user
(6/19/00 7:35:23 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Talent
I usually just browse around in here
(i.e. without responding) but this strand was just so juicy, I
couldn't resist...
The "aptitude" tests described above sound
interesting to me, because they remind me of tests I was given (IQ,
creativity, curiosity, logic etc...) before I was chosen to
participate in the "gifted and talented" (in quotes because I take
issue with that concept) program at my grammar school. I disagree
with that only because once I got there, I was surrounded by
hyperactive, vulgar kids who were just as uninteresting as all my
other classmates (I was the only musician in the bunch).
I
see people every day who struggle with their instruments, who do not
appear to be making any progress and who likely will not ever become
professionals; but, these people are happier with music than most
professional musicians (myself included). They play cello (brace
yourself) only because it's fun; it brings them joy. Many of my
students are adult beginners who find cello practice similar to
meditation, it is soothing and it makes them feel good to be able to
play "Happy Birthday" for their grandkids etc....
I guess my
point is, we should ask ourselves what is the point of music-making?
If it is to become a virtuoso, then 99.999% of very effective,
professional-level players (many of us here, I suspect) will
struggle in vain forever. I personally have heard various remarks
from my professors, ex-professors and chamber music coaches that
have run the gamut from, "You are an exceptionally talented
cellist." to, "You should consider double-majoring so you have
something to 'fall back on'." Now, I'm just riding a wave of musical
successes after a two-year break from cello altogether--my playing
is stronger than ever, it improves every day and I am making decent
money with it. Am I happy? Well, that's a whole other
post....
BTW: I liked your post, Dennis.
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