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Subject |
Cellochick
Registered User
(7/23/00 12:05:20 pm)
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Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
Okay, I know I'm still a freshman in
HS, so I should be out getting trashed, but instead I'm sitting here
worrying about college. I'm a control freak, and my future is
definitely something I don't have under control. Basically, I just
want some reassurance that I'll be okay. I can imagine myself doing
a lot in college - I love speaking Spanish and studying Hispanic
culture, I love to read and write, I think physics is awesome...but
cello and piano are my greatest passion. This brings up my first
query, the music conservatory vs. liberal arts college debate. I can
still study all my other interests in depth at a conservatory?
Conversely, can I still study music performance as intensely at a
liberal arts school? Any feedback/experiences you have would be
helpful. Secondly, I'm wondering how much class rank, grades, and
SAT/ACT/IB/AP scores matter if I were to apply to a conservatory. Do
conservatories only look at your musical side? I have
extracurriculars - student council, Habitat for Humanity, soccer,
church service projects w/my youth group, a literary magazine, and
then all my musical groups (youth symphony, string quartet, cello
choir, chamber orchestra, music society)...how much do
extracurricular activities matter to a liberal arts college vs. a
conservatory? Should I be doing more? I don't want to be
over-scheduled, though - cello always has my first priority. If I
were to apply to a liberal arts college, would they understand that
I practice 4-6 hours a day, and therefore I have no time to do a lot
of other things? That kind of devotion has to speak for something, I
hope. As much as I love cello and want to make it my life, I don't
want to be a one-dimensional person - I'd be so boring! Okay, all of
this can be summed up in one BIG question: WHAT SHOULD I BE DOING
NOW (AGE 15) TO HELP ENSURE I'M ACCEPTED BY WHATEVER COLLEGE I WANT
TO ATTEND? Sometimes I feel calm about the future, and other times,
i.e. right now, I feel panicked. The ranting and raving
continues...
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Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(7/23/00 12:56:57 pm)
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Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
Alright, let's see
here...
>WHAT SHOULD I BE DOING NOW (AGE 15) TO HELP
ENSURE I'M ACCEPTED BY >WHATEVER COLLEGE I WANT TO
ATTEND?
The simple answer: Study - keep those grades up.
Practice - keep those skills up.
The more in-depth answer:
Above all, regardless of what type of school(s) you apply to, grades
and your playing ability/potential are the most important things.
Some schools take standardized tests like the SAT I and ACT very
seriously, and many just give you a minimum score required for
admission. Study for these tests, maybe take a review course, but
don't kill yourself preparing. Admission boards realize that these
tests are a one-time deal, and consequently they are much more
interested in your overall academic history (ie, your
grades!).
The APs, IBs and and SAT IIs are hardly ever
required for admission, although more and more schools are starting
to require SAT IIs (usually math, english, and one of your choice).
I would highly recommend taking AP and IB exams, even if you don't
take the class. If you have any idea about which schools you want to
apply to, check and see for which AP/IB subjects they will award
credit. A $70 exam is a lot cheaper than a $300+ biology course!
Keep in mind, though, that taking these advanced classes during high
school can be extremely trying. Many of my friends thought they
could get away with 6 APs during one year, not realizing that very
few colleges would even let you take that many credits. And also,
most schools will only except credit for scores of 3 and above;
sometimes only 4 or 5 are accepted.
Liberal arts vs.
conservatory training: There was an excellent article about this in
a Strings magazine a few years ago (I'll try to look up the exact
issue). Both offer opportunities that the other does not, and both
have their drawbacks. You did mention you have a lot of other
interests but that music is your passion. For that reason, you might
want to consider a liberal arts education. Of course, check into the
conservatories you might be interested in to find out what
opportunities would be available to you in subjects other than
music.
>If I were to apply to a liberal arts college,
would they understand that I practice 4-6 >hours a day, and
therefore I have no time to do a lot of other
things?
Consider how many liberal arts colleges/universities
are also well-known music schools! There's SUNY-Stony Brook, Univ of
Southern California, Rice (TX), Univ of Michigan, Indiana U, just to
name a few. Music majors are usually required to take the same
general education requirements as any other student. This is
entirely do-able. AP/IB credits can help out, as well as taking
classes during spring/summer terms. It is entirely possible to study
music at these types of schools, and get the same music-intense
experience as you might at a conservatory. It really comes down to
how hard to want to work.
Oh, and at college, you'd be AMAZED
at how much 'free' time there is... You might be taking a full
course load (usually 12-15 credits) and still only be in a classroom
20hrs a week. Given there are 168hrs in a week, that leaves you with
a lot of time for practice, study, rehearsals, social activities,
etc. I think the best thing to learn before you get to college is
Time Management. It is incredibly easy to waste all that 'free'
time. The joke at my school is that if you have a perfectly neat n'
tidy dorm room, you must be a procrastinator. That was me last year!
I hate studying, and while I'd get to it eventually, I tended to
compulsively clean/organize in an unconscious (maybe it was
conscious) effort to put off the work.
>I know I'm still a
freshman in HS, so I should be out getting trashed
I had to
point out how much I DISAGREE with this statement.
As for
your extracurriculars, I should think you've got plenty of them.
When I was doing the whole college search/applying thing (which
apparently I'm going to be doing again...aargh), the college reps
stressed that they are MUCH more interested in seeing a student who
is really dedicated to a few extra activities than a student who
crams all sorts of things in just to impress the admission board. So
do want you are really interested in and don't take on too much. As
I've mentioned before, the two most important things are your
academic history and your music skills/potential. Don't take on so
much extra stuff that those things fall behind.
You sound a
lot like me. I'm going into my junior year at college (only
credit-wise, it's really my second year) and I still wonder just
what I think I'm doing with myself. Obviously, music is my first and
foremost priority, but like you, I have all these outside interests
that I want to look into. It's definitely confusing, and I think I
can sympathize with your own situation. My best advice? Talk to all
sorts of people... your guidance counselors, teachers, parents, the
people of the ICS, etc. Go to a nearby college and talk to an
advisor. Read about the different entrance/program requirements of
schools you might be interested in. Many, many, many people have
been in the same situation and it would be to your benefit to find
out what they would have done differently if they could 'do it all
over again'.
Feel free to pick my brain for more
schtoof.
-Laura
Edited by Laura
Wichers at: 7/23/00 12:56:57 pm
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George
Registered User
(7/23/00 8:03:49 pm)
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Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
You are way ahead of the game. Don't
stay awake at nights worrying about this, because you are definitely
on top of things and I'm certain that everything will work out for
you.
I reached the middle of my junior year in high school when I
first started thinking about college, and I had to start playing
catch up. Since you are a freshman jsut worry about getting good
grades and doing some outside school activities. Don't stress
yourself out, you should still be kid. Remember that your purpose in
life is not to become a cello playing machine or the super duper
college applicant. There is always the present to enjoy.
I
would recommend not going to a conservatory. You can play your cello
at a regular school, but you can't take physics at a conservatory.
And at a normal school, if you get tired of physics that's fine
because you can easily switch to something else. On the other hand,
if you're at a conservatory, and you get tired of the cello...thne
you're in trouble. (I'm sure you think that would NEVER happen, but
people do change)
Additionaly, I don't think that interacting
with only musicians is healthy. Coming from someone who has attended
both Cornell University and Peabody, I say take the liberal arts
route.
So, in summary. It's great that you're so motivated
and ambitious, but don't worry too much, you have your entire junior
and senior years to do that.
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Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(7/23/00 10:16:29 pm)
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Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
I wasn't going to say it, and some
people might try to bite my head off for it, but I once heard (and
completely agree with) the following statement from a well-known
musician: "Attempting to become a professional musician without a
liberal arts background is just plain stupid." Why do I agree with
it? The same reasons George was mentioning about liberal arts
educations. More opportunities for things besides music, people
change and what then?, much broader base of people to associate
with, not to mention what will you do if you for whatever reason
don't end up with music? You can get other jobs with a music degree,
but being able to show you also know about other things can be a
huge factor.
Don't think you HAVE to go the conservatory
route if you want to be a professional musician. I know of several
players in top orchestras that do not even have a music degree.
There is a violinist in the Detroit Symphony Orchestra who has her
Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry and just took lessons during her
years at Harvard. Not too shabby. Then there's Jeff Solow (although
he might be an exception) who has a BA in philosophy and now is
internationally known as a performer and pedagogue. I could go on
and on and on and on...
Now that my bias is out in the open:
IMHO, the ideal situation is a phenomenal music department that is
part of a university/college, such as the schools I mentioned in my
first reply. I know I'll consider some of the big conservatories for
grad school, but for undergrad I want my additional liberal arts
courses. Good for the brain and good for the future, is what I
think.
-Laura
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Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(7/24/00 4:57:58 am)
|
Laura
is right
Although I am not yet a college
student, I have been doing a lot of "research" as this is my last
year at school.
Here we do not have those Art Colleges, and
we do not have Conservatories. Here there are Schools of Music
attatched to the Universites - of which there are 6.
However,
there are some differences. At some, if you Major in music, that's
all you do. The timetables are set up so that there is no way that
you can do anything else, which is stupid. However, here in
Wellington things are different!:
Most graduates I know have
done papers in other things - Drama, Languages, History, Classics,
Accounting, Maths. . .etc etc, and they feel this is a better idea,
because all of those things will help one in a musical career, and
are useful for gaining extra credits, that could only otherwise be
gained by taking a gamalan class, or Music as a Therapy in Third
World Countries papers - both very time consuming.
And of
course, you get to meet a different crowd, which would be
refreshing.
I for instance definitely want to do some
Classics papers, and perhaps something else.
Also, you
probably want to end up educated at the end of it, and education
needs to be well rounded.
So, Laura was spot-on. Now I better
go to bed so I can get up early and practice, so that I will
actually be accepted into a Performance Programme!!
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celloguy
![]()
Registered User
(7/24/00 8:33:13 am)
 |
Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
I had to put in my two cents' worth
on this, since it was a mjor issue for me as well. As a freshman in
high school, yes, you definitely shouldn't worry too hard about
college just yet. There's no point in spending so much effort on the
future that you miss the present. But it is mostly important, as
everyone said, to do well in your classes and keep playing the
cello. I myself graduated with 5 AP credits, and the way Lawrence
works is that you get a credit for each one, but they don't count
towards your GPA. Actually, they only gave me 4 credits, I think
because I took Spanish Language and Literature, but Ap's can also
help you place out of lower level classes. I didn't really know for
sure until i was really a junior that i wanted to be a music major.
In high school, I really didn't spend anywhere near 4-6 hours a dsy
practicing, because academics took so much time, plus working, and
other things. But I spent a lot of time doing music, like singing in
choirs, and playing in orchestra, etc. And I also knew that I
definitely wanted to go to a liberal arts college. I firmly believe
that a broad base is very important for so may reasons, and I figure
grad school is when I will just beat myself over the head with cello
all the time. But I really wanted an undergrad experience, because
meeting all sorts of different people is absolutely one of the most
vital and exciting parts of college, as I am sure the others on this
board will agree. And there are many veyr good liberal arts schools
with great music programs, all over the country. I shoudl plug my
school here, since I love it so much. One of the major attractions
of Lawrence for me was the double degree program, which in 5 years,
gives you a BM in the conservatory and a BA in the liberal arts
school. Of course, since Lawrence is so small, the conservatory is
not really very separate, and I know many people who have switched
between a BA in something completely different, to BM performance,
or from BM performance to BA music, or whatever. They let you change
fairly painlessly. I am actually getting a BA in philosophy and a BM
in performance myself. Ok, I guess that's enough for now-I should
shut up. But again, let's not forget perhaps the best example of a
musician going the liberal arts route- and one who would do fine at
a conservatory if ever there was one- Yo-Yo, who went to Harvard
(not a dummy) and loved it.
Doug
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Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(7/24/00 8:56:32 am)
|
Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
Didn't Yo-Yo originally go to
Juilliard and get kicked out? I can't keep all the rumours straight.
He DID go to Juilliard prep, of that I'm *fairly*
sure.
Here's another one: Lawrence Lesser graduated from
Harvard with a math degree. He also studied with Piatagorsky at USC
(I believe he was a teaching assistant).
There's a number of
musicians on this board who attended Indiana-Bloomington, USC,
SUNY-Stony Brook, and other liberal-arts-with-huge-music-programs
schools.
-Laura
Someone correct me if I'm
messing with the facts.
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celloguy
![]()
Registered User
(7/24/00 11:56:12 am)
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Re:
Thinking (and worrying) waaay ahead...
I think I've heard that Juilliard
story too. I'm not sure of the truth of it, but if so... hey, it
makes him even more human. Of course, he sitll got into Harvard,
something beyond me, and he sure plays better than me... ![0]](worry_files/alien.gif)
Edited by celloguy
![]() at: 7/24/00 11:56:12
am
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(7/24/00 12:40:58 pm)
 |
YoYo Ma
and other thoughts.
I don't think Yo Yo got kicked out
(at least I never heard that story). He did go to the PreCollege at
Juilliard and had some personal problems (as any genius kid might at
that age).
I know a cellist who majored in math and graduated
from MIT at the age of 16! THEN he went to Juilliard to study with
Leonard Rose.
But here's a twist on what Laura said (in favor
of going to a conservatory). You don't have to go to a Liberal Arts
school (program) to get a non-musical job.
For me after 12
years of Conservatory (BM, MM from Juilliard and DMA from Peabody) I
landed a pretty good day job as a Systems Administrator working on
the computers and network of a great software company. I never
studied computers in school. I learned it on my own from friends,
books and hand-on experience. When I got my first computer job, they
paid for my continuing education in Computers.
But still,
while it's very important to be able to be flexible with career
paths, there is nothing quite like going to a conservatory where the
level is extremely high. There are lots of good things and LOTS of
bad things about that as well!
My most general advice is to
follow your heart, use your head and bring an extra change of
underwear.
What?????
OK, here's what I mean.
1.
Follow your heart - You don't want to grow up bitter because you
took someone ELSE's bad advice. If you know your heart and you truly
want to do something, start in that direction (whether this means to
major in music only, double major or whatever). You must choose a
path you know will make you happy and not regretful.
2. Use
your head - Ok, so the heart changes a lot (emotions). Look at all
your feelings and sort through them. After all is said and done,
what can and CAN'T you live without? This doesn't mean you'll be
giving anything up at this point, only that you'll start to
prioritize where you are going distribute your efforts.
3.
Bring an extra change of underwear - just like you need an escape
route in case of fire, be prepared for the worst. Your dreams or
plans may blow up in your face. That's life. It may totally NOT be
your fault, but circumstances are sometimes beyond our own control.
What if something happens to you and you can't play the cello
anymore? What if you already registered for Math Courses and find
out that you can't STAND sitting in the lecture hall when you'd
rather be rehearsing Chamber music or preparing for a recital? Be
prepared in case you change your mind or life changes it for
you.
Most importantly, don't go it alone. Always seek the
counsel of more experienced and wiser people. People who's judgment
you can trust.
As with you cello playing. Try to imagine
exactly what you want to do in as much detail as possible. Then
begin to map out a path to that goal. You must know your destination
before you map a route.
Paul Tseng, Cello Chat Administrator
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