| Author |
Subject |
harriclay
Registered User
(2/10/01 4:38:32 pm)
Reply |
Pro to
amateur
Can it be done? I'm a good player
but terrible auditioner, which is why I finally gave up trying to
get employment as a cellist and started working at nonmusic jobs. I
now have a certain amount of leisure time that I could spend on
playing and practicing, but it never seems quite worthwhile to sit
in a community orchestra with everyone else struggling to play music
I find easy. I do get calls every once in a while to sub with some
of the regional orchestras, but they are always at the last minute
and I have to turn them down. Chamber music would be fun, but how do
I go about finding good and/or likeminded players? I live in a large
metropolitan area; all the good violinists/violists/pianists/other
seem to be busy doing gigs and scraping out a living. I was in a
couple of chamber groups that died out for various reasons. Any
ideas? Thanks.
|
Dorie
Straus 
Moderator
(2/10/01 6:06:54 pm)
Reply |
Re: Pro
to amateur
You might get more of a response on
the main board. We're mostly amateur here; only a few that stop by
CBN play professionally. I only wish I had your problem. I'd
probably want to figure out why I can't do better at auditions and
take on the challenge of fixing that.
|
harriclay
Registered User
(2/10/01 8:52:39 pm)
Reply |
Re: Pro
to amateur
Thanks for responding. I decided
after 20+ years of struggling with auditions that for whatever
reason, winning an orchestra (or other) job was not in the cards for
me. My professional playing has dwindled down to my having only 1
concert last year (I realized when I looked at my tax material for
the year)! I just want to find a way to enjoy playing and a
motivation for practicing. I thought I was ready to give it up
entirely, but it seems I'm not. I guess I posted here because I was
wondering if any other amateurs were in the same boat and had any
words of wisdom. I'm 43, if that makes any difference.
|
Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(2/10/01 10:54:48 pm)
Reply |
Re: Pro
to amateur
I've not yet scored an big
orchestral job, and at approx. 30 years of age I do sometimes worry
a bit. I teach a lot, and play a lot of chamber music, and Baroque
business, so have to practice so that I am up to scratch. I do know
people who have your problem. I'm thinking of auditioning in Europe
this year, but that would mean such upheavals.
Try posting on
PPE.
|
Joe
S
Registered
User
(2/11/01 4:56:15 am)
Reply |
Just a
bad Amateur
And I can't help you get a job, but
I think that you may want to rethink why you play the cello. Is it
the money or the love of the music. I turn 50 in just a few days, I
have only played the cello for a little over four. And with all of
the demands of life, I find little time to play or practice, but I
faithfully go to my lessons and willingly pay the fee because I love
the music. I may never perform with my cello in public probably will
never make a dime with it. I play to myself for myself.
If you
want to perform, than just do it. As a clown I do charity events.
There are retirement homes who wound love to have you. Book stores,
malls, weddings. The word will get around and then when all the
other good musicians need a good cellist, they will call
you.
Praying and paying to play better someday, Joe S.
|
harriclay
Registered User
(2/11/01 10:12:17 am)
Reply |
Re: Pro
to amateur
The year I turned 30 was when I went
back to school to start my doctorate (on a full scholarship). I was
very busy and in demand as a freelancer and teacher, but it was such
a difficult way to live! I earned so little I could have qualified
for welfare. Joe S., NO ONE goes into music for the money, but it
all started to seem not worth it. I wanted to be able to support
myself, I wanted health insurance, I wanted to stop living with so
much uncertainty. I admire those who can keep going, but I admit, I
wimped out in favor of a modicum of comfort in my life. I'd be the
first to say I'm no superstar, just a decent player (in case anyone
thinks I overestimate my abilities). In any case, past is past and
you can only go on from where you are -- but where can I go? Thanks
for your input.
|
Tim
Janof
Administrator
(2/12/01 5:53:05 pm)
Reply |
Re: Pro
to amateur
It sounds like you belong to that
group of players that feels pretty lonely, the ones who are semi-pro
level or better, the "tweeners." You are tired of playing crappy
gigs and tired of playing in out-of-tune community orchestras. You
want to play seriously and work hard, perhaps do some small
concerts, but you don't necessarily want to do it for the money.
It's hard to find players with the same mindset. Why is it that as
soon as a quartet of this type of players gets together somebody
always says, "We should do some gigs," and then you are expected to
play Pachelbel and Jesu incessantly, and then the serious
music-making goes out the window.
All I can say is that
there are quality players out there who play for the joy of it. It
just takes time to find them. Some you'll meet in community
orchestras, some you'll meet at cello clubs, some you'll meet at
adult amateur music camps. They're out there! Don't give up!
|
pnorris
Registered User
(2/12/01 6:07:03 pm)
Reply |
re:pro
to amateur
I can relate to your situation
although I never got to actually auditioning for pro orchestras. I
went all the way through college thinking that was what I would do
for a living, only to find my audition skills never got any better.
I never mastered the fear that auditioning brought out in me. So I
have a day job and play to maintain my sanity. The community
orchestra scene is not for me - back biting for chairs, lack of
decent wind players,etc. I do run a wedding quartet which is not the
most musically satisfying, but during the slow season, we play real
chamber music. You might meet like minded individuals if you start
going to chamber music camps in your part of the country. I have
gone to one in Oregon for 2 years now and really love it. I have met
many wonderful players and gotten to play music that I would never
even get access to in my day to day playing.
|
dennisw
Registered User
(2/12/01 6:17:15 pm)
Reply |
pro to
amateur
I don't know if this perspective is
helpful, but the truth is, as I'm sure you know, most cellists are
not "professional" cellists. Very few make their living playing the
instrument. Even the ones with symphony contracts frequently have
non-music jobs to help pay the bills. Teachers in colleges,
conservatories, and universities are paid to teach the cello and
recruit students, not to play the cello. Those jobs aren't
necessarily all that secure, and you practically have to wait for
someone to die before you can even interview for it.
Forget
about making serious money playing the cello. Get a job that pays
the most money for the least amount of time you have to spend making
the money and spend the rest of your time playing and
living.
Only take the jobs you really want to play and play
only with the people you want to play with and play only the music
you want to play.
If you want to give a recital featuring the
Bach solo suites, just rent the hall, print the flyers, show up and
play.
If you want to play chamber music, find some friends to
play with then get the music that fits the instrumentation &
play. If you keep saying: "I want to play in a string quartet" you
may find it tough to get the right combination of players to
commit.
Find a pianist or get married to one. There's lots of
solo repetoire to mine with just cello & piano. You can play
recitals at your home for friends.
In short, if you take
money out of the equation, everything changes dramatically. If
you're the type that easily burns out on wedding gigs, "pomp and
circumstance" playing, and symphony pops concerts, you will welcome
the change to play only the music that excited you about the
instrument to begin with.
Just about everyone is in the same
boat... The classical music biz is pretty much a non-starter. It's
probably only going to get worse. I think being an amateur is what
playing is all about. Amateurs are the future of the
craft....
|
KDS
Registered User
(2/12/01 7:33:10 pm)
Reply |
I'm
with you
I'm in your same boat. Where are you
anyway?
I have a music performance degree, but am also a
horrible auditioner, and thus decided not to go the professional
symphony route. I teach 11 students and love that, even teaching at
a junior college for a short time. I also work on giving solo
recitals in local venues just for the sheer joy of playing what I
want to. I'm also a new mother (stay-at-home mom) and rely on my
husband's income to support us (thank goodness he has a good job!)
I guess I don't really have an answer for you, but know that
you're not the only one out there in this situation.
Kristiana
|
drcello
Registered User
(2/12/01 8:46:27 pm)
Reply | Edit
 |
pro to
amateur
I find it fun to be "semi pro."
Chattanooga has a good regional orchestra, we play about anything,
pretty well. I play about once a month as an extra, and enjoy that
very much. I actually think it may be more enjoyable than being a
full-time pro.
Marshall C. St.
John
drcello@mindspring.com
www.waysidechurch.org
|
dennisw
Registered User
(2/12/01 9:11:43 pm)
Reply |
re:
boat
Conservatory & university
graduate many years ago.
Quit professionally because I saw
limited opportunities in the future & I decided I wanted to make
money and for personal reasons.
Got into the computer
business in the late 70's. Still making a ton of money. When I get
tired of the biz, I'll retire.
Picked up the cello again
after 20 years away and was surprised that I could still play. So, I
decided I wanted to keep going with it.
No "gigs", no
weddings, no bar mitzvahs, no pops concerts, no broadway musicals,
no jingles, no movie scores, no John Tesh backups, no Andre Rieu
spectacles, no Yanni, no road tours, no boring symphonies.
If
I play with any orchestra it will either be for a charity event or
as a soloist or it will be a chamber orchestra. Otherwise I am going
to record and play chamber music, which is my first love.
I'm
not interested in teaching but I want to start a foundation for
funding music programs in our public schools.
I also refuse
to accept payment for anything I do musically.
|
harriclay
Registered User
(2/12/01 9:41:21 pm)
Reply |
Re: re:
boat
I didn't expect to get so many words
of wisdom! DennisW, I think you are right on about the music
business. I started the doctorate thinking I could get a teaching
job somewhere, but by the time I finished I realized that what was
available was barely subsistence level; also musically deadening
(i.e., a job in some small town in the middle of nowhere). I took a
couple of jobs like that and couldn't wait to get out after a few
months. When I started my day jobs (have had a series of them), I
did plan to play what I wanted, etc., but was still struggling with
survival and didn't have a lot of energy for it.
KDS, I'm in
the Washington, DC area. Lots of excellent cellists (National
Symphony, Kennedy Center Orchestra, the service bands, students at
Catholic U and Maryland, etc.) and fierce competition for few
playing opportunities. (Even the volunteer groups can be pretty
competitive.) It's also fierce driving around here during rush hour,
which has kept me from committing myself to playing with groups that
are in the far-distant suburbs. (Although I would probably go if it
was going to be something fun.)
Tim Janoff and pnorris, the
adult music camps are a great idea. Can you recommend any in the
eastern half of the country?
Thanks again, everyone.
|
pnorris
Registered User
(2/12/01 10:10:01 pm)
Reply |
re:
chamber music camps
try the amateur chamber music
players website.They have an annual listing of camps all over the
country. Their address is: www.acmp.net. I am on their mailing list
so got the listing in the mail. Also Strings magazine just did an
article on camps. Good Luck and have fun!
|
Bob
Registered User
(2/12/01 10:25:39 pm)
Reply |
Re: re:
boat
There's the Gettysburg Chamber Music
Workshop, a long weekend in June. They don't have a website, but if
you'd like to e-mail me your address, I could send you one of their
brochures.
|
Tim
Janof
Administrator
(2/13/01 10:18:45 am)
Reply |
Re: re:
boat
I don't know, but I believe the
current issue of Strings Magazine has a list of summer camps around
the country. Surely, there's a few in your area.
|
Ellen
G 
Registered User
(2/13/01 8:54:17 pm)
Reply |
Getting
the right boat
Hi. I hope you can get an accurate
assessment of some of the camps. There are an awful lot of listings,
but they don't tell you what/who the camp caters to. Music For the
Love of It seems to have a pretty good write-up of many camps around
the country, though obviously the entries are not exhaustive.
I have talked with a fair number of people who have attended
camps, and while they thought the experience was positive, they were
players like me who never had the strong background you do. I know
better players who have been "stuck" playing with us. And while many
do it to help us out, the reality is that you want to play with
people of your caliber. You won't find that caliber at a number of
camps. They are friendly, undaunting, perfect for many of us closet
cellists, or adults getting back into playing who are somewhat
worried about our own talents and how we fit ability-wise with
others.
If you don't mind traveling, the place that comes to
mind is Bennington. You know for sure you are going to be in contact
with strong players. People like me don't go there for that very
reason. It could be your niche.
In the Lexington, Virginia
area there is a Princeton Chamber Play Week, and they list it as
experienced adult amateurs and professionals. I know a quartet that
went and felt it was over their heads.
And by all means, I
recommend joining ACMP. There are some extremely strong players
there. While the self-grading system leaves much to be desired, you
stand a good chance of a fair match if you check out the listings
for Professional and A players. There is a large contingent in your
area. There is an on-line registry you can peruse if you are a
member with a password and know the secret handshake. But you can't
register on-line, and have to wait for a snailmail password to
arrive. There's some more information I'd be happy to share with you
if you want to e-mail me. Ellen esgunst@hotmail.com
|
Joe
S
Registered
User
(2/13/01 10:22:57 pm)
Reply |
I am
sorry,
if I stepped on any toes. I was
trying to help as I have recieved so much help here myself.
Joe
S.
|
JanJan2
Registered User
(2/14/01 7:39:24 am)
Reply |
Re: re:
boat
You might want to check out Apple
Hill Chamber Music Camp in NH (Nelson, I think).
Janet
|
Email This To a
Friend
Topic Commands
(Moderator only)
MP3
Resources