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FAQ # 149
QUESTION 149 :
Was
the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh) Someone other than the Father? The
answer, of course, is the latter [Yes]. For additional identification
of Yahweh [Yahovah], see the "Eternal Son" article.
The author of that
erroneous article stated:
As you may recall, in the article
"The Eternal Son" we determined by comparing
the Old Testament to the New Testament that the God of the children of
Israel (YHWH, or Yahweh) was in fact the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ (the
Son). This fact flies in the face of the teaching of many cults, who believe
that only the Father is truly God and that the Father in the New Testament
is Yahweh in the Old.
Jesus also says that the children
of Israel have not heard the Father's voice nor seen His shape. Yet we
know from Exodus that Moses heard God's voice many times (at the Burning
Bush, on Mt. Sinai, etc.) and saw God's shape from behind on Mt. Sinai.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and most other Old Testament patriarchs and prophets
all heard God's voice. Was Jesus mistaken?
(Essentials of the Christian Faith
Series, The New Testament Revelation of the Father, by Mike Bugal,
Founder, Heartland Chapel Ministries).
Thus we see a very important truth:
the God of the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was
not the Father (directly), but was indeed the eternal Son. Remember what
Jesus said to the Pharisees? "Jesus
answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that
honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known
him; but I know him" (John 8:54). Israel had never had any dealings
with the Father directly, but always through the Son. Creation was the
Will of the Father and the Son was the One Who carried out that Will.
(Essentials of the Christian Faith,
The
Eternal Son, by Mike Bugal, Founder, Heartland Chapel
Ministries).
I found
out that it is not isolated to him or a new thing but has since existed
to support the theory of the trinity, stated here by the Hellenist Justin
Martyr himself:
"The
Jews, accordingly, being throughout of opinion that it was the Father
of the universe who spake to Moses, though He who spake to him was indeed
the Son of God, who is called both Angel and Apostle, are justly charged,
both by the Spirit of prophecy and by Christ Himself, with knowing neither
the Father nor the Son. For they who affirm that the Son is the Father,
are proved neither to have become acquainted with the Father, nor to know
that the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten
Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire
and in the likeness of an angel to Moses and to the other prophets; but
now in the times of your reign, having, as we before said, become Man
by a virgin, according to the counsel of the Father, for the salvation
of those who believe on Him, He endured both to be set at nought and to
suffer..." (The First Apology of Justin, Chapter LXIII, 7-8).
And John Calvin
has this same notion that the Jews had no dealings with an allege “God
the Father” of the Trinity, but “God the Son:”
"...we
shall truly say: the God who of old appeared to the patriarchs was no
other than Christ" (John Calvin, Institutes, Book I, Chapter XIII,
Section 27).
In addition
to this, another notion states:
New
religious movements like the Jehovah's Witnesses take it for granted that
Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament, is the 'Father-only.' The classic
proof that the God of the Old Testament is Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
not 'Father-only', comes from Isaiah 6:1-3, combined with John 12:41 and
Acts 28:25. Isaiah saw God in the temple:
"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also
the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled
the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings;
with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and
with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy,
holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory"
(Isaiah 6:1-3).
Whom
did Isaiah see? John the evangelist says he saw Christ. After quoting
Isaiah 6:9-10, he says, "These things said Esaias, when he saw his
[Christ's] glory, and spake of him. Nevertheless among the chief rulers
also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess
him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue..." (John 12:41-42).
Paul quotes the same passage, attributing the LORD's words to the Holy
Spirit:
"So when they did not agree among themselves,
they departed after Paul had said one word: 'The Holy Spirit spoke rightly
through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, saying, "Go to this people
and say: 'Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand; And seeing
you will see, and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown
dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they
should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them'"
(Acts 28:25-27).
Q.E.D.
- the God of the Old Testament, the LORD of hosts, is the Father, Son
and Holy Spirit, not 'Father-only'.
Therefore, one
notion is that the God Israel related to in the Old Testament wasn’t the
allege “Father” of the Trinity, but “God the Son” of the Trinity. Hence,
Israel never had any dealings with “God the Father,” only “God the Son.”
They even back this by Christ narrations, example, John 8:54. First, Christ
wasn’t saying they hadn’t known the father, but they, present ones, don’t
know the father because of their falleness from Moses Judaic orthodoxy.
Second, for this notion to hold up, there has to be a Trinity, which this
book overtly proves is non-existent. But rather, God is one individual
manifesting as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (1 Tim 3:16). Only in this
sense can old Israel be said to have fellowship with Christ before Calvary.
The other notion
is also a spin-off from the false Trinity theory, and is like the first.
That is, the God Israel related to in the Old Testament wasn’t the allege
“Father” of the Trinity only, but all the separate members of Trinity,
“God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.” Again, this is
erroneous because there is no Trinity, but God is one individual manifesting
as Father, Son and Holy Spirit (John 1). Hence, only in this sense can
Old Israel be said to have fellowship with Christ before Calvary and the
Holy Ghost before Pentecost.
Even if these notions were correct it would make this God of the Old
Testament a liar, because he said:
"I even I am Yahovah,
there is no Savior besides Me" (Isa. 43:11), "Is there any other
God besides Me? ... I know of none" (Isa. 44:8) and "I am the
First and the Last; there is no other God besides Me" (Isa. 44:6).
Therefore, there is no allege father God over him or beside him, he is
the only one. So if a father or another spirit pops up in this theory,
this Jesus of this theory would be a liar or don’t know what he is talking
about; and thus not God! Trinitarians interpret this to mean that there
is no other God besides the 'triune God', yet God here is clearly using
singular terms and speaks of Himself as "I" and "Me",
not as “we” or “us” or “our triune existence...” Jesus [would have] lied
when he said he was God (because that would make him the Father), or God
[would have] lied when he said he was the Savior (because that would make
him the Son).
And we know God is not a liar (Titus 1:2). If Jehovah
(Yahovah) that spoke with Israel as their God had a superior or a co-equal
partner or existed with others as God, all Israel would know; especially
King David. He said and he speak for all of us, "Wherefore thou are
great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any
God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears"
(2 Sam 7:22). You can't twist yourself around that!
Answer
Notes: 1. See the FAQ's that
deal with "eternal sonship" and "only begotten."
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