Notes on "Stacking":
Even if you were to take away the technical issues relating to the stack (slow loading of targets for the attacking group, sb.exe's etc.) the stack would still be prevalent simply because it is the simplest way to organize a large group of individuals from a variety of guilds. Everyone by now knows their roles in using a stack and every character's LOS and attack range in the stack is exactly the same. Therefore there is less time wasted moving around which means more time spent nuking. Also groups (obviously) stay together in a stack so group heals are garunteed maximum effectiveness. Thus, the amount of discipline necessary to maintain an effective stack is far less than that required to effectively attack a stack.
That is not to say that a stack cannot be defeated. It is just that in order to effectively execute a complicated battle scheme with a group of 50+ individuals made up of different guilds who are not accustomed to working together requires an extraordinary amount of leadership/luck that has not been seen in this game to date.
Not to mention that coordinated targeting when in a stack is extremely easy. The attacking group rarely comes into nuke range simultaneously because no one on the attacking side wants to be the first person in nuke range since we all know that means instant death. Thus as the enemy slowly comes piecemeal into range, it is just a matter of picking them off one by one.
- "The Stack Must Go" Thread on the ubi.com forums:
http://ubbforums.ubi.com/showflat.php?Cat=19&Board=SB_mourn_gd&Number=732864&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all- "...the simplest yet most horrific example of broken game mechanics Ive seen playing both DAoC and SB.
The
Stack is counter-intuitively the current optimal strategy for defense
and most likely offense as well. This is the result of the lack of good
AE spells that would rip it to shreds (as they would in DAoC). AE
spells need to be changed or new ones need to be added.
The
Stack, especially in laggy, chaotic battles with a large force of
nuker/healer characters is a fantastic strategy. Piling all your forces
into one spot should guarrantee that you lose the battle, not win it."
* * *
- A
stack is a tough nut to crack. It is a damn good defensive formation.
It is useless on the offense though. Its REAL power is when someone
gets in range, they lag like hell trying to load that many people all
at once. ... The AoE limit is another plus but not as much as you might
think. Get enough AoE'r and you will rip a stack to shreds eventually.
Another thing to try is see if a stack can be approached where you can
pause and "load" the characters in a stack before they can target you
(from behind a line of buildings, etc.).
Stacks are tough, but they are not near invulnerable.
You
can't really use a stack on the offense (it is a stationary formation)
except maybe to hold a rally point. You can't really hold such a tight
position while moving.
* * *
- "...probably the
most advanced tactic in game would be a offensive stack, example... 20+
person stack is ordered to become offensive; they move forward
[formation off] 50 feet, stop, restack, and continue."
(Gib, who supplied this recording of the stack in action (download at your own risk!): http://home.attbi.com/~mcrispy11/lex.zip)
* * *
- One
poster makes the point that, given a recording of the enemy's stack,
one might "go through it and make a note of who their group healers
are, who gives commands, etc. then just have everyone do a /target
'xxxx' on those important individuals and take them out, then just take
their nukers out one by one with mass /targeted nukes".
"[A] stack's primary purpose is to take advantage of lack of enemy organization"
* * *
- Halethrain notes:
"Assassins...
Find the tank Silence, Shadowmantle, continuously bloodfire, tank runs
out of stam, is silenced and can't tell next tank to take over, havoc
ensues."
-- Although either voice chat or IRC will get around that.
* * *
- "The Stack" thread on Ubi.Com forums:
http://ubbforums.ubi.com/showflat.php?Cat=19&Board=SB_mourn_pol&Number=742209&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all
Gharvi: I was thinking about all this stack business, and something hit me
Gharvi: why not do a mass summon on your enemies to confuse them, and then attack?
Gharvi: they'll have to decline, and if they aren't paying attention they might actually accept the thing on accident
Turien: the stack is ebil
Gharvi: and in that confusion they'd be open to attack pretty easily
Turien: th best thing is to force the stack to move
AgentLarith: You can just used AoE's on the stack.
AgentLarith: That's what I'd do.
AgentLarith> 40 Templefolk using an AoE? Deadly.
[05:56] AgentLarith> Even 10.
[05:57] Tzung> good morning
[05:57] Turien> against stacks
[05:58] AgentLarith> Both Temple classes have access to a powerful AoE.
[05:58] AgentLarith> Mine does 300 with only 2 trains.
[05:58] Tzung> same here Larith!
[05:59] Turien> well, against people with fire resist, it will prolly do less ;p
[05:59] AgentLarith> If you GM it, it can go 600-700, i've heard.
[05:59] Tzung> just make sure no other groups are near you!
[05:59] Turien> but tanks charging the stack is always a good thing. it creates confusion
[05:59] AgentLarith> Yeah, but you're talking about 6000-7000 damage from a group with GMed
[05:59] AgentLarith> resist or no, mages/summoners = dead.
[05:59] Turien> well
[06:00] Tzung> what is the stack? I have heard of it.. but I am not sure what it does.. is it just a formation?
[06:00] Turien> I have been in stacks charged by up to 50 people and not be hit once
[06:00] AgentLarith> No. It's an abuse of mechanics.
[06:00] Turien> because of AEs only hitting 7 people
[06:00]
Gharvi> I'd just like to see Gib's face when he's in the middle of a
fight and he gets a "Larith is trying to summon you from Nkoth Desert"
[06:00] AgentLarith> Heh.
[06:00] Turien> on Death, EVERYONE uses the stack
[06:00] Turien> except nurfed ;p
[06:00] Tzung> how does it work?
[06:01] Turien> everyone stands on top of each-other
[06:01] Tzung> ahh.. just .. stack
[06:01] Tzung> is that so you cant target?
[06:01]
Turien> if someone charges the stack, the people that charge will
get mass sb.exe from having to load so many people at once
[06:01] Turien> you also can't target
[06:02] Uhrstod> Daedulon wanted to do a stack attack I remember.
[06:02] Uhrstod> I just thought it was kinda gay standing there on each other
[06:02] Turien> and AEs are proportionally ineffectual against stacks with the size of the satck
[06:02] Turien> the problem is that the stack works SO well :/
[06:03] Gharvi> because AoE's only hit up to around 7 people at a time...
[06:03] Turien> yes
[06:03] Turien> when AEs get fixed, the stack won't be as effective
[06:04] Turien> and the only reason why AEs were nefred in the first place was because of a flight exploit in beta :(
[06:04] Turien> and flight is nowhere as powerful as it was in beta
[09:40] Uhrstod> We just got our asses kicked at Ancora ;)
[09:40] Larith> I like how HoP thinks they're "Bad ass" now.
[09:40] Uhrstod> We only had 3 R5's.
[09:40] Uhrstod> And we were outnumbered, hehe.
[09:41] Larith> Someone sent me a PM saying "HoP was making fun of us"
[09:41] Uhrstod> Heh.
[09:41]
[TWE]Morn> I would say we missed you last night while fighting KoE,
but, it'd of sucked to have lost that wall corner... We barely beat em
[09:41] Uhrstod> HoP sucks. We knew we would die.
[09:41] Larith> Heh. KoE.
[09:41] Larith> They're looking for a real fight.
[09:42] [TWE]Morn> It was kind of sad, both sides were stacking in the fight
[09:42] Lucianne> oh and some HoP tool popped in a minute ago
[09:42]
[TWE]Morn> It was us on the wall corner being like, "stack and pwn
that channie with censure" and them stacking on their fessors
[09:42] [TWE]Morn> Found out the stack isn't as tough or scary as people say though
[09:43] Errandir> stack is only ubar if you stack like 50 people
[09:44] Lucianne> what is stacking?
[09:45] Uhrstod> Everyone stands on top of each other
[09:45] Uhrstod> Making it hard to target a individual
[09:45] Pireth> use /targ
[09:45] Lucianne> ah, sounds like lag suicide
[09:45]
[TWE]Morn> Eh well, it didn't seem so tough when they gave us plenty
of time to sit out of BtW range and select their fessors
[09:45] Errandir> it is for the attacker