Doors

Our doors sag just a little bit. John Henry recommends (with disclaimers!) opening the door and jacking up the corner of it with a trolley jack so that the weight of the car will bend it back up again. VERY leery about this one! Any thoughts?

The hinges on VWs are rather cheap. Mine had just a slight sag too for a time -- before the body near the hinge cracked I mean. I was able to fix the original sag to some extent by loosening the bottom hinge screws in the body (don't remove them altogether, just loosen them, and you MUST use an impact screw driver to get these loose -- they are REAL tight), and slip in a flat shim (made from one of those baked bean tins again!) in between the hinge and the body. This pushed the door up/out from the bottom, so it sat much better when shut. You can't see the shim when it's in place, unless you get down and peer at the hinge itself.

John Henry's method probably works by bending the hinges a bit.

By "cheap" do you means inexpensive, or "cheap"?

Both. Very simple design, so costs very little, but they do seem to be a common weak point on old VWs -- most have sagging doors to some extent. And being welded to the door they are not easy to replace (I don't even know if you can).

You can get oversize door hinge pins and reamers. The pins are driven out upwards, the reamer inserted to enlarge the hole a few thou, and then the new pins installed. Usually cures a sagging door. Keep them lubricated too -- that helps reduce the wear. I used WD40 about once a week (at least regularly) -- you are supposed to use grease in the top with a special rubber nozzle, but I never had that, and so out with the WD40. Had to be frequent with that stuff though -- it's very thin.

While poking around the Bug on Friday I discovered why the door on the driver's side hasn't been latching well -- two of the four screws on the striker plate are missing! VW special items, too -- I've looked several places and haven't been able to find them. (Dave finally salvaged some screws from a poor forlorn Bug at a local wrecking yard.)

I just bought a '79 VW Beetle vert. It is in great shape with very low miles. There are few problems. The one problem that bugs me is the gap between the passenger door and both fenders. There is nearly a ½ inch gap between the rear fender and the door. In the front, there is hardly a gap at all. In fact, the paint has rubbed off in a location or two. Regardless, the door shuts okay.

Do you know how I could adjust it on my own without running it to a body shop?

I don't believe there is ANY method of adjusting the doors fore-aft. The only thing he could try is to put some packing under the hinges where it screws into the door jamb, but this would give a few mm at best, nothing like 1/2 inch. Sounds like the doors are too short for the hole they fit in to!

I pulled the two caps on each side off, which exposed a third hinge screw on each side. Are there only just the three? Bentley says use the impact driver to loosen these screws. Is it best to remove the doors this way, and then press the pins out of the hinges with the doors off? (Bentley says use a "special tool" to press them out, don't pound them out.)

There are just the three screws for each hinge. The bottom one on the bottom hinge is close to the door step, and I found I needed a 1/2 inch socket extension shaft on the impact wrench so I could get a really good grip on the tool whilst still keeping a shallow angle on the shaft. I also used a heavy leather glove on my gripping hand so I could rest it on the door sill for the shallowest possible angle and pounding the tool didn't cause blisters on the back of my fingers from the door sill - your hand DOES move slightly fore-aft as the tool is struck. These screws are REALLY tight, and there is a danger of stripping the cross-cut out of the screw head if you wack them at an angle, so take your time and use a heavy hammer (I have a 2 pound steel mallet) so you get really good blows - lots of small taps won't do it and just encourages the driver bit to damage the cross slots. If you ruin the cross-cut in the screws it's an awful job trying to drill those screws out, and you risk damaging the thread in the captive plate, which is absolutely impossible to get at to replace (the bottom one anyway), so the problem is compounded. Use new screws if there is ANY damage to the cross-cut. I'm reinstalling mine with a touch of grease on the threads so next time is a little easier.

Once loosened they screw out easy enough, and the threaded steel plate they screw into is captive so you don't need to worry about losing it. Although it's captive it does move -- to allow for adjusting the door, so don't worry if the door "flops" a little when you get all the screws loose.

Are the hinges so loose themselves that you need to remove/replace the pins? If so the best bet is to remove the door, turn it upside down with the hinge on an anvil or similar, and get someone to hold the door whilst you punch the pins out from the underside of the hinge (which is now on top). You need a good quality long punch for this, and it should be a close-ish fit in the hole - too loose and it's likely to score the sides of the hole because it can tilt a little. The pins are an interference fit. I think RMMW sells larger pins and the matching reaming tool to enlarge the hole. If there is a special press for removing them I guess that would work better.

The door side of the hinge can not be replaced - it's welded to the door frame.

The two outer screws have been painted over with the heavy (almost plastic-like) paint that the PO used -- I think it will be wise to dig all the paint out.

Absolutely. You need to make sure you use a bit which fits the cross-cut fairly well too -- too small and it'll strip the cuts faster than you can hit the tool :-)

I was worried when I took the striker plate off on the other side and the plate behind it moved -- I was afraid it was going to fall down inside and be lost forever! The movement on that side is for adjustment as well, isn't it?

Exactly the same system. There is a sort of H-shaped metal leaf which is spot welded to the frame in the middle of the H and the "legs" are a loose fit around the plate to allow the plate to float for adjustment.

Speaking of adjustment -- I've been worried that the doors on our car were closing and latching with a little difficulty. No one to blame but myself for that -- I gave those new handles to my son for a Christmas present, then went out on Christmas morning and installed them. Guess I didn't get those screws snugged up enough.

I'm worried about painting the hinges. Right now the paint on them as worn down where the pieces move relative to each other, and it's a little rusty in there. I just wondered whether it might not be a good idea to remove the pins and paint the two halves of the hinges separately. Any good advice in that regard?

I'd leave them alone if the hinges aren't wobbly. If you remove them you'll have to ream and fit the larger pins, since the interference fit can't guarantee to grab properly a second time. Just clean them up with a wire brush and solvent to remove any lubrication, and use a very sharp knife to break the new paint around the hinge movement so it doesn't pull the paint off the hinge itself. It might not need breaking the paint line anyway -- depends on the paint and how they apply it.

Hot and dry weather is excellent, except when it comes to painting. Painting needs to be in a booth in that kind of weather -- there is too much dust otherwise. When I painted my Bug (out in the weather) many years ago I chose a warmish but very still day. Even so I still got a few dust particles in the paintwork -- I could notice it even though no one else did.

I'm doing the prep work outside, and it will probably take me several days to sand the body. Is there danger of rust forming on the bare metal before I finish?

It won't be a problem unless you get some moisture in the air. If they do the job right they'll wipe it with solvent before priming, just to get rid of any remaining dust/grease/rust particles.

The rubber seals that goes all around the doors has been baffled. J.C. Whitney is the cheapest - no description, just $18 for the pair. Rocky Mountain Motor Works sells a seal that they call "OEM Quality" -- I should know what the means - "Original Equipment (something)" -- for $20 for the pair. Then California Pacific muddies the water with a "Quality Brazilian" seal for $30/pr, and a "German" seal for *$80/pr*!

I'd tend to go for the $20 or $30 pair. The OEM is as you say Original Epuipment Manufacturer, so should be OK. The Brazilian stuff I've bought seems to be OK, so I guess the rubbers for the door would be too. The German stuff would be top quality I suspect, but it's certainly very pricey. Even the cheaper varieties should last some years though.

I’m going to completely refurbish all of the mechanism inside the doors paint the inside flat black -- it will then be covered with the door trim panel, of course, but I will know what it looks like in there!

Check for signs of rust in the bottom, particularly in the front and rear corners. And make sure that AFTER painting the two drain holes are open and not clogged with paint. Oh -- and if yours don't currently have any sound deadening on the inside of the outer skin -- get some stick on engine bay deadener from an autoshop and stick some in there. It doesn't have to cover the whole inside (though more is better than less) but stops a lot of road noise and stops the doors "drumming".

Inside the door there are (or used to be, on one side) little pieces of carpet pad type material under the rod that runs from the door handle back to the latch. I'll be replacing those.

Yes -- that will remove any chance of rattles from the door and the one behind the winder and door handles in particular prevent breezes getting through the cracks.

Every single one of the little rubber inserts that go in the holes that the door trim clips go into fell apart as I was taking them out -- all must be replaced. And I figured out what the Tygon tubing in there is for -- the screwy cable that runs the window up and down runs down into it. I’m going to replace it and completely clean up and lubricate the mechanism.

Last night I found two screws in the side of the door that I hadn't taken out; turns out they are for the door check mechanisms. I took both of them out and found that the check wire is missing in one and broken in the other. (Is this supposed to be a wire, or was this a poor man's fix by some PO?). I will either fix or replace them so the doors won't swing out so wide anymore.

My door catch mechanism is a short flat rod with "bumps" near the outer end, mounted to the frame. In the door it slides through a "grabber" which hopes over the bumps and holds the door open. No wire in sight.

Best lubricated with "dry lube" (a stick of clear waxy grease) or similar so it doesn't leave greasy marks on dresses etc.

I was able to spend about an hour stripping the right door last night. I found a little problem that has me a bit concerned -- there is a little crack in the body just at the top of the upper hinge. I'm wondering if it might be wise to have it welded before the door is painted.

Yes -- definitely. On my old body, the right door had dropped because the bodywork had cracked just under the bottom hinge, allowing the hinge support plate in the frame to move a little. So make sure the hinge plate and the body it's mounted to are carefully lined up when the welding is done as there is little room for moving the doors afterwards.

I wonder, too, if this might be the source of the slight "droopiness" that I've noticed in the past. I'm sure the hinge should be pushed up to close the crack before it is welded.

The door locks clean up fairly well, but I really don't know whether they're operating properly or not. Do you know of a good way to trouble shoot them to make sure they're okay? And where (and with what) should they be lubricated? It concerns me that the door locks are so darned old.

I don't know of any way to test them other than to work the mechanism and look for any free-play in the mechanism - I mean whether the parts slide smoothly etc or wobble about their bearings.

Mine were filthy but I just washed them in kerosine, lubed them with a tiny amount of WD40 and dried off the excess with tissues (too much attracts more dust) and reinstalled them - they work fine. There is a tiny hole in the back edge of the door near the lock mechanism which can be used later to blast WD40 through a straw at the lock - but I'd leave that for a year of two until they need it - dust collection starts early otherwise :-)

I lubricated the door locks with a tiny amount of WD40 and dried off the excess with tissues (too much attracts more dust) and reinstalled them -- they work fine.

Since WD40 evaporates over time, I tried to think of some other lubricant -- maybe engine oil, but it has other stuff in it (detergents and anti-scuff agents and such). Maybe chain-oil for chain saws/bicycles if you have any. It's "clingy" so it won't run away, and it doesn't have a lot of additives, since it's a one-shot lubricant for the chain.

I'm still very undecided about the door locks. Part of me says they're 27 years old and should be replaced just as a matter of course (this is a restoration, after all); the other part says, "These locks are perfectly workable (at least I think they are) - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

I'd be inclined to the latter :-). They do seem to be a reliable part of the car, and at least you know those ones DO fit!

The outside triggers changed in 1973 -- your's should have "two finger" indents, where mine have a "one finger" indent, but I don't know what (if anything) changed in the lock mechanism itself.

I guess I'll just lube these locks up good and reinstall them. That will save me a hundred and twenty bucks! But I really need to study that lock mechanism. It's a real puzzle to me just how it works.

I had a good look and worked it out, but I'd have trouble describing it. It helps to orientate the lock as it would appear in the car and then work out where each lever attaches, then you can follow the motion of the parts better.

I use spray lithium grease.

I don't understand why he'd use a lithium grease -- that's a high pressure grease for wheel bearing etc. A spray would tend to spread it around I would have thought, creating a dust trap.

All locks are generally best lubricated with graphite powder. In fact, graphite powder is sold for use specifically as a lock lubricant.

He must be thinking of the locking mechanism in the handle -- graphite is definitely the best for that area.

I still think either a drop of "chain oil" (non drippy stuff, which won't run down out of the bearing and leave them dry) would work well, or perhaps some GP grease if you can get it into the bearing areas properly. Moly grease would work too - it's very good where parts slide against each other. This would certainly work where the parts slide against each other too.

I can do it alone, but I think you are right to get help to avoid any possibility of scratching the paint. One suggestion -- run some masking tape through your fingers to reduce the sticky (make it easy to remove) and stick it down the edge of the door jam until the hinges are fixed with the first screws (you only need one on each hinge to hold the door in place before lining things up). This is the most likely area to get scratched if the hinges flop about whilst trying to get them in.

My one-man method is to get the door almost to the right height sitting on some bricks with rags on top (so it doesn't scratch the paint underneath the door), and then use my foot to hold the underside near the outer edge whilst feeding the hinges into place. Gives me 2-1/2 hands :-)

Then snug up those super-tight screws. They have to both be moved upwards enough so the door doesn't scrap on the underside, and of course they have to be moved in-out enough so the weather strip sits snuggly all round.

Would it be easier to put the doors on with the seats in or out?

My suggestion would be to put the seats in first, and then the doors. Gives you more "swinging" room when putting the seats in, and the seats won't get in the way when putting the doors in. Well, maybe that lowest door hinge screw will be a slight problem, but you really need an extension shaft on the impact driver so you can get a good grip on it without banging your knuckles on the bottom door jamb. And with the extension shaft on the driver, you can angle it outwards just a little to avoid the side of the seat anyway. My impact driver takes a standard 1/2 socket extension shaft, which works just fine.

Try and get the hinge screws tight enough so you have to bump the door with the heel of your hand before it moves. A leather hammer or rubber mallet would work as well -- something that won't damage the paint. Maybe even wrap a piece of soft rag over the head with some rubber bands -- just to be sure.

Regarding the door catch -- the mechanism inside the forward part of the door frame with a tongue that runs through the door frame and attaches with a pin to the door post -- to prevent the door from opening excessively, like in the wind or something. They simply consist of a loop of wire with a rubber stopper on the inside, the wire looping through the pin on the frame.

We have the "custom" one-piece windows in our car, and the window interferes with the door catch as it is rolled down. Not a problem in cars with have the quarter vents.

I haven't seen these before myself -- one piece windows are not common here. I guess that means the doors can't be held in the open position like they are with the solid straps, but at least they won't flap back and dent the front fenders.