Engine Lid Seal.
Close-up of the Engine Lid Seal.
The following topics are discussed on this page -
Dave’s frustrations with adjustment of his engine lid spanned several years, and it still isn’t exactly right.
Early in this saga, Dave wrote to Rob -
I went out and had another go at adjusting the rear bonnet lid. I decided to take the whole thing apart and start over. Took the brackets off and discovered two things -- my helper had put them together wrong, and the brackets themselves were cracked!
Fortunately I have a sort-of friend across the street who restores vintage cars as a hobby... I wandered across the street to see if he might have a minute sometime to do a little welding for me. He said, "Sure, let's do it right now!" So he took my brackets, ground and hammered them back into shape, welded the cracks, wire brushed them down with his little air-driven unit, and primed them! Wow! What a service. My son and I brought them back home ... and painted them black.
Then back to the frustrating job of trying to get the rear bonnet lid on and adjusted. I put the brackets on right (U-shaped piece on the bottom rather than on the top), then fiddled and fussed with the two bolts on either side, moving the lid up and down to try to make it fit properly. Ended up stripping the two holes in the hinge on the right; fortunately a nut fit on the back. Finally got it as good as it was before, but still too much space around the top. Don't know what else to do.
Two years later, Dave was still having trouble with the engine lid.
Dave wrote -
Is it possible to bend the ends of the U brackets together slightly? I can't think of any other way to alter the gap. Sliding the lid on the hinges would produce a small change I think, but not enough to fill that gap in.
Dave reported on the inspection of another ’73 Bug -
I checked out the rear bonnet lid, which fits perfectly. I'm sure you're right -- our brackets must be bent. I'm going to call Russ' Recycling in Duarte, California to see if I can get some new/used ones.
Jumping ahead another year, following the painting of his Bug -
Dave wrote -
I haven't put the engine lid spring on yet -- hate that job!
Rob wrote -
I found this very simple, but I can't remember the exact process I used. I think I loosely screwed one bolt into one side (hinge) and then put the part of the spring which ride on the body bracket into it's slot and pushed (rotated) the lid into position and installed a bolt on the other side -- something like that anyway. However it was, there's a "trick" which makes it easy - I must have been lucky and found it.
Dave wrote -
I have a big question in my mind about adjustment of the lid. The gap between the lid and the body at the top has always been too wide on this car, and I've fiddled with both the brackets and the hinges till I'm blue in the face. Any cogent thoughts?
Rob wrote -
The mounting brackets and hinges seem to determine the gap, and they aren't adjustable.
Someone in the RAMVA Newsgroup wrote to say -
To close the gap at the top you need to slide the hinge brackets toward the front of the car and then pull the decklid adjustment further back up.
Once again, Dave wrote -
I also fiddled some more with the engine lid -- I have the brackets all the way forward and the hinges pulled all the way up in the brackets, but there is still too much clearance between the top of the lid and the body of the car. I’m in a quandary about that.
Rob responded -
It's very strange - as I've never heard of that much gap before.
Dave provided a summary to that point -
Some time ago I found that the brackets were cracked, and I had the guy across the street weld them for me. That didn't solve the problem, so I got a pair of new/used ones from Russ' Recycling. Didn't make a bit of difference. Again I'm at the point of not knowing what to do. John Henry says he's had to use shims to get the lid adjusted right - I need to write to him for some more details. It's not obvious to me just where to put shims.
Rob wrote -
If you put shims between the lid hinge and bracket (lifting the open lid a little), it would probably reduce the gap with the lid closed. I think putting washers between bracket and body would probably have the opposite effect.
Dave wrote to John Henry -
You may recall our correspondence in the past regarding the resto job I'm doing on my son's '73 SB.
I wanted to touch base with you one more time about the adjustment of the engine lid. I have too much space between the top of the lid and the body, and I'm at the limits of adjustment on the brackets (all the way forward) and the hinges (all the way to the top).
Some time ago you mentioned that you needed to use shims to get the lid adjusted properly. Could you give me a little elaboration? Like what to use for shims (washers?), and where to put them.
I need to pull the brackets back out a tad, as the lid is recessed too far inward (toward the front of the car), but the gap is too wide and I'd like to narrow it up if I can.
John Henry responded -
The biggest lesson to be learned here is to do all this fitting and aligning *before* paint. (I didn't either). You can shim stuff, but I have learned that it is easier and more effective to *bend* stuff. You can remove the brackets and bend them gently in or out. You can also bend the louvered panel mounts a bit. But none of that bending is fun with fresh paint!!!
I might have told you before, but put a couple layers of tape on the upper lip of the decklid and the lower edge of the body cowl until you get it all worked out.
I quite frankly forgot where I used shims, I think it was between one end of the bracket to body mounts. A also remember elongating holes with a grinder. But in the end I think it was bending that fixed it.
Rob wrote -
My engine lid sits a little too far "down" (when closed) now too, so that gap MUST be adjustable using the hinges (I removed mine to raise the fan shroud).
Dave responded -
My engine lid is a little too far "in" at the top -- that's just a matter of loosening the bracket bolts (easier said than done!) and pulling the bracket to the rear just a bit.
Rob wrote -
Right, and mine needs to be moved "out" on the hinges (with the lid open) so when it's shut the angle of the brackets moves the lid "up" a little.
The situation remains unresolved to this day. Dave finally gave up and moved on to more important things.
Someone posted to the RAMVA Newsgroup -
I was looking at the deck lid on my ‘71 Super Beetle when I realized that I don't have any vents in my deck lid. Don't Super Beetles have four sets of deck lid vents? I noticed a few places where hoses have rubbed through the paint, and there is blue paint under the green; apparently not the original deck lid.
Rob responded -
Here's how it happened -
The lid shape changed in '68, and all '68+ lids will fit other '68+ cars.
But '68 and '69 still had solid lids (1300 and 1500 single port engines - max 53hp).
In 1970, the US got the first 1600 - a single port with 30PICT/3 carby and 58hp.
VW found the cooling marginal with the same fan and higher hp, so they added two sets of slots to the engine lid to aid the cooling (the "2 slot" lid was previously used on Cabrios which didn't have the under-window air vents).
So all '70s (the world over) got "2 slot" lids, even though most of the world still had the 1300/1500 engines (only the US got 1600s that year). My 1970 1500 (which I bought brand new and still have) has the "2 slot" lid.
Then in '71 VW introduced the first twin port engine, with 60hp and larger cooling fan for the doghouse oil cooler (25cf/sec versus the earlier "in shroud" cooler fan's 22 cf/sec).
With this larger fan, VW found the "2 slot" lid marginal, so in ‘72 they introduced the "4 slot" lid and kept it that way for all subsequent Beetles -- both Super and Standard.
So, your tp engine using the solid lid WILL be running short of cooling air, particularly at higher speeds.
Find a "4 slot" lid from any '72+ beetle and your fan will be able to work at it's best.
Dave wrote -
I need to remove the piece that the engine lid latches to on the rear apron and put some Locktite on those bolts/nuts, too. (Don't want too! It's a bear getting the nuts on up underneath the top lip of the fiberglass apron - not much access for my fat fingers.)
Rob responded -
Perhaps stick the nuts on an popsicle stick with blue-tack or similar, then hold it behind the hole?
Dave wrote -
I cleaned the little plastic disk that fits in a hole in the lid right under the license plate light - painted over on one side and all gunky on the other (inside). I think the purpose of this hole and disk is to transmit light into the engine compartment on a dark and gloomy night. Does your Bug have one of these?
Rob responded -
Yes it does -- clear (or rather slightly yellow now). Funny, I'd never thought of it as providing light in the engine compartment, but I guess that's what it's for. I've always gone in their with a torch (sorry flashlight :-) in my hand, and never noticed it as a light!
Dave found it necessary to replace the rear apron on his '73 SB. It had been badly damaged in a rear-end accident, then very poorly repaired with layer after layer of Bondo. Because Dave's car is equipped with a Sports GT muffler with two sets of peashooters protruding rearward beneath the apron, Dave needed to install a new rear apron that did not have the cut-outs for the standard peashooters. Dave finally found such a rear apron at Innovations in Fiberglass in Phoenix, Arizona.
The only problem with the new fiberglass rear apron is that it doesn't have the slot for the standard engine lid seal. It was suggested that a long piece of thin foam material be glued around the edge of the engine lid. Dave tried this, but it didn't work well and didn't last.
Finally, Dave found a seal that clips onto the inner edge of the engine lid, with essentially a long rubber tube attached to the continuous clip to provide the seal. The pictures below show the seal more clearly than I can describe it.
Dave originally found the seal at BTLMEX, Inc.; unfortunately BTLMEX, Inc. is going out of business and couldn't provide the seal. Dave bought it from Aircooled.Net.
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Engine Lid Seal.
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Close-up of the Engine Lid Seal. |
Disclaimer stuff: Rob and Dave have prepared this information from their own experiences. We have not assumed any specialised mechanical knowledge, but we DO assume that anyone using this information has at least some basic mechanical ability.
We hope you find this information useful, but we don't take any responsibility for anything which happens to you, other people, your VW or any other property or goods resulting from your use of this material.
Feel free to print off any of this information for your own use. If you intend to link this material to another site, reprint it, or in any other way redistribute it, please leave the information complete, including this disclaimer section, and provide a link to this Web site.
Last revised 23 June 2004.
