Engine Oil

I hate to even ask this one. I changed the oil a couple of weeks ago and installed a new cover plate with a drain plug in it (yea!). When I cleaned off the old cover plate I was quite distressed to find some curled up metal shavings appeared to be brass. Not much, but worrisome. Reminiscent of the old days when the distributor gear disintegrated in my `77 Bus and bound up the engine -- required a complete engine overhaul and replacement of the crankshaft, and the car never ran as well afterward. Finally sold it for $1500 and moved on. Should I be concerned about these shavings? Is there anything I can do short of tearing down the engine (bite your tongue!)

Hummm, It might be just left over metal from the last engine rebuild (there is ALWAYS some), some lazy folks don't bother to take the coverplate off completely to drain the oil, or just use the drain plug where these are fitted (all engines up to 73 had drain plugs, but then they removed the plug to 'force' you to remove the cover plate -- hopefully so the strainer got cleaned more often).

The metal could therefore have been sitting there for some time. Just use good oil, and keep an eye on it for any more. If you do get more you might have a problem.

I generally remove the cover plate every time I change the oil. We installed a cover plate with a drain plug in it because my son complained about getting dirty, warm oil all the way to his elbow! I hope this is just metal left over from the last engine rebuild, like you say. The people that rebuilt the engine are kind of meatball mechanics -- not terribly meticulous.

Might it be a good idea to pull the distributor gear and inspect it? Is it made of brass like the one in my Bus was? I've always been leery about pulling this gear out because of the dire warnings "Don't drop the washers into the crankcase you'll have to tear the engine down to get them out!" Is there an easy way to make sure you don't lose these little hummers?

It may be, as you say, that the metal shavings could therefore have been sitting there for some time.. But we changed the oil not all that long ago, and I changed it again a couple of weeks ago just because I wanted to get the new cover plate off my work bench.

My son learned a little lesson the other day about checking the oil. He found that it only came up to about half way between the end and the bottom mark -- then he realized that the car was parked on a fairly steep slope, facing downward! We checked it last night on the level, and it was fine.

Yes -- good lesson. The dip stick is near the back of the sump, which is fairly flat/shallow. So the dipstick reads high with the nose of the car high, and low with the nose of the car low. If the oil gets much below the lower mark (car on level ground) the oil light will sometimes flicker in hard cornering because the oil sloshes away from the pick up pipe the 'flat' sump can be a problem if the oil isn't checked reasonably often. They are designed to burn a bit too, so most beetles need a pint or so about half way between oil changes to keep it near the full mark.

With regard to low oil level -- The oil light coming on in corners almost always means very low oil, as it sloshes away from the pick up tube. Only happened in mine with less than 1 litre left in the sump -- and that didn't happen too often as I usually checked it often enough to top it up before then.

And, regarding a high oil level -- A little overfull is no problem, but too much and you get a lot of oil sloshing into the undersides of the pistons in corners (or even on the straight if it's REALLY overfull). This would increase oil consumption as the oil rings would have difficulty scraping the excess away with each stroke. Also might result in leaking from the ventilation groove in the crankcase behind the engine pulley, and the pulley would then throw it all over the engine bay : )

I checked the oil -- its right up, but its remarkably clean. I'm not sure what that means. It (the oil) has been changed twice in quick succession …

I'm guessing but the two quick oil changes probably washed out any gunk, and it will take a few more miles to show dirty again. Short trip will blacken it quicker than longer trips, so was the new oil used on a trip out to the area (engine nice and hot) or just around Richland (engine not really heated up, so more contamination from condensing fuel etc)?

... and after having driven it about town a little bit its still clean.

Oh -- you answered that question then. Now I don't know either. But the oil must be flowing OK, otherwise you'd come to a grinding halt in just a few miles.

You've asked me twice whether I was sure that the oil sump is full. I checked the dipstick both times and found it right on the money -- is there some way that oil may not be getting to where it needs to be? You obviously had a reason for asking the question.

I was only asking because you mentioned it running hot. If the oil is real low it tends to get hotter (less time to cool down in the sump), and of course if it runs out, the engine will survive for a short time getting hotter and hotter. Obviously not the problem, since you always check the oil carefully.

There are some applications where traditional lubricants work best and your antique Volkswagen is one of them.

As far as I can see using synthetics would be fine, but a waste of the money and their long lasting properties, since the VW oil is changed so often anyway. Even if you have an oil filter you won't be extending the changes to 20,000km or anything like that.

Volkswagen enthusiasts came up with a practical means of adapting full-flow oil filtration systems the problem, many VW owners hoping to improve their engines ended up destroying them by bolting on the poor quality filter/pump adapters.

Bob stops short of recommending an after-market full-flow filtration system. If indeed it doubles the life of your engine, it seems like a good idea. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I think having a filter would be a good thing, but so long as you change the oil regularly I don't think it would double the engine life. The filter would allow some folks to become lazy I guess.

I change both the oil and the filter on my two non-VW cars at 10,000km, even though they burn LPGas, which results in the oil looking almost as clean as when it went in! Fresh oil is cheap insurance, in my book.

I ran into a guy who drives one of Australia's few remaining Country Buggies (an Aussie version of the Thing, but quite different) and he'd put a type 3 engine in it as he did a lot of cross country, and dirt road driving (they have a spin-on filter as standard). Under those conditions, a filter would definitely be a good thing. He still changed it at 3000 mile intervals though - because of that ventilated sump design.

But if you use modern high- detergent oil all you need to do is remove the drain plug; you should leave the sump plate alone.

This one kinda blew me away! I’ve ALWAYS removed the sump plate and cleaned the strainer (well, at least every other time). What do you think of this?

The old non-detergent oils used to allow the fine crud to settle out, and since the sump plate is the lowest point, cleaning it made a lot of sense. And VW wanted this to happen so the later sump plates don't even have a drain plug - you HAVE to remove the plate.

The detergent oils hold the crud in suspension much better, so almost all of the crud comes out with the oil through the drain plug.

I remove the plate and clean the gause filter about every 4th oil change, and I haven't noticed any gunk in the filter screen, and don't get any more than a "stain" of gunk on the sump plate doing it this way. If I lived in a dustier climate I'd change it more often though. Remember that there is an opening into the crankcase around the pulley shaft which is designed to pull in fresh air (unfiltered!) so it is certainly useful to clean the sump plate occasionally - it WILL get some crud on it eventually.

My 1970 Owner's Manual says "Use HD (High Detergent) oil when available", and "this is designated "for service MS" under the API (American Petroleum Institute) system". The "MS" may be unused terminology now - I don't know.

Things go awry right off the bat because typical sump gaskets sold today are permeable cardboard instead of resin-coated non-permeable gasket material. In plain language, they are unsuitable as oil gaskets; they leak. That means you have to spray the cardboard jobbies with a non-hardening sealant.

This was also a revelation! I’ve never heart of spraying the gaskets with a non-hardening resin. My systems have always leaked – maybe this is the reason.

I've never had a problem with this - maybe the gaskets I've been getting are from a different source (German instead of Mexican maybe)?

The other thing folks do wrong is to NOT replace the crushable copper washers on the sump studs and drain plug.

I don't remember ever needing to replace this washer - I suspect that mine is still original. I'm very careful to snug the plug home without overtightening, so maybe I've been doing it just right or something. It doesn't leak anyway.

Fortunately, Toyota and Nissan both use crushable sealing washers on their sumps, including one size that fits the VW drain plug.

That's useful to know. I note that the Falcon has a nylon washer, so maybe it would be possible to get one of these to fit the VW plug - that would be ideal I think - soft enough to seal but keeps it's shape too.

The detergent oils hold the crud in suspension much better, so almost all of the crud comes out with the oil through the drain plug.

So Bob Hoover's advice is sound. I always hate to remove the sump plate, as those studs seems so fragile to me. I always worry about over-torquing the acorn nuts.

Changed the oil (how did it get so dirty with so little use?).

If it's doing it's job it will get dirty very fast - only a few hundred miles to make it black, since the detergents wash the engine insides and retain the gunk in the oil.

All the info about changing oil is based on oil that was produced waaaaaaay back, and most of the oils today are much superior to the old stuff.

One thing you're forgetting here...it isn't the quality of the oil that is in question...it's the fact that unless someone custom builds an ACVW engine that is completely sealed from the outside environment then contaminants are being introduced.

John has it in one.

The VW engine has slots behind the engine pulley and a spiral groove in the crankshaft that results in fresh unfiltered air being pulled into the crankcase for positive crankcase ventilation. That air and any fumes are then drawn up the ventilation pipe and into the air cleaner.

So dust and anything else in the atmosphere is being drawn into the engine and is trapped in the oil. There's no oil filter on most VW engines, so the 3000 mile oil changes are important in cleaning the oil before the crud becomes a problem.

Doesn't matter if you use the finest synhetic oil in creation, it will still get dirty unless you have a sealed crankcase AND a decent oil filter.

Changing the oil regularly is the cheapest insurance for long life you can give a VW engine.